2016 Macbook Pro 2x as expensive vs. Lenovo X1 Carbon 2017

[iLLucionist]

So I was configuring MacBook Pro's and Lenovo X1 Carbon's today and check this out.

The specced out MacBook Pro 15" 2017 with the appropriate dongles (RJ45, USB hub thingie, and HDMI) with highest CPU, extra GPU, and 1 TB SSD comes in at around 4300 euro's. Mind you, this is with ONE year official carry-in warranty.

The specced out Lenovo X1 Carbon 2017 with the appropriate dongles (HDMI/VGA and USBC/DisplayPort) with 1 TB SSD comes in at around 2430 euro's.

Let's break down in plusses and cons:

MBP:
+ more power (though throttled because of thermal design)
+ retina screen
+ touch-your-selfbar
+ dedicated gpu (amd radeon) yet significantly worse than mobile geforce 1050
- keyboard
- battery life (7 hours in practice with light browsing and 50% nits)
- lack of ports
- soldered everything
- dedicated gpu, but onboard is only intel hd 530

X1 Carbon:
+ keyboard
+ trackpoint
+ battery life (around 12-14 hours with light browsing and 50% nits)
+ ports (and RJ45 included out of the box)
+ fast charging (1 hour gives 90% capacity)
+ replaceable user-servicable SSD
+ replaceable user-servicable battery
+ very very light (1.14kg)
- raw cpu power
- no dedicated gpu (intel hd 630)

So in my book, the X1 carbon is clearly the winner, let alone because of the ports, the keyboard, and the battery life. And it is HALF the price (almost) of the raped macbook pro.

As a matter of fact, the pc laptop is not like "well the mac is too expensive, yes the PC has shortcomings but it is less expensive". No no no... the X1 Carbon packs MORE plusses (IMHO.. YMMV) than the Mac.

Discuss.

[nmur]

in my experience, people that buy macbooks/iphones don't really consider comparisons such as those. they just want the design and feel of the apple hardware and software, and don't want to leave the apple brand image and ecosystem. nothing can really change their minds.

[Jokrik]

in my experience, people that buy macbooks/iphones don't really consider comparisons such as those. they just want the design and feel of the apple hardware and software, and don't want to leave the apple brand image and ecosystem. nothing can really change their minds.

This is very true,
I love windows, but for work IOS is my way to go

doesn't mean that windows is bad, is just that I feel that IOS workflow really up my speed

[need]

Computer isn't just about specs and numbers, ultimately it's the whole environment that the user feel comfortable to work in that matters.

[iLLucionist]

Computer isn't just about specs and numbers, ultimately it's the whole environment that the user feel comfortable to work in that matters.

Exactly: better keyboard, ports (and not dongles), and better battery life.

Yes yes... perhaps some people like OS X better. I used to as well. Until I switched to Win 7 (and XFCE on linux) and noticed how much OS X lags these days (El Crapitan), like Windows Vista used to. Using El Capitan (which I have done since it came out... been using Mac since 2005) is like running Win 95 on a 386 (if that was even possible).

[iwantatrophy]

I find the Keyboard atrocious on the new MBP. It hurts to type on it for long durations. I bought an MBP only to return it a week later and got the X1C midway last month. I use linux and KDE Neon works perfectly on it, barring the FP scanner. Also, does anyone find OSX Sierra to be slow? I realized this after installing Neon on X1C, but this may be my misconception or something.

[vivalarevolución]

We are forgetting the most important question in consumer behavior:  which device is more accepted by your peers?

[iLLucionist]

I find the Keyboard atrocious on the new MBP. It hurts to type on it for long durations. I bought an MBP only to return it a week later and got the X1C midway last month. I use linux and KDE Neon works perfectly on it, barring the FP scanner. Also, does anyone find OSX Sierra to be slow? I realized this after installing Neon on X1C, but this may be my misconception or something.

I find OS X after the "UI-makeover" of Yosemite practically unusable and slow. Also the MS-like features and failed "ios-ification" of OS X stupid. Just fix the basics: window management, desktop management, etc. Improve there, like what XFCE has been doing iteratively. As opposed to this "innovation" that MS is also known for.

[iLLucionist]

We are forgetting the most important question in consumer behavior:  which device is more accepted by your peers?

Good point. Well, having the MBP shows you that you are rich, I guess. And cool. Or really REALLY broke (because you bought it). Or that you have something lacking in the lower department that you are compensating for.

[iwantatrophy]

We are forgetting the most important question in consumer behavior:  which device is more accepted by your peers?

Good point. Well, having the MBP shows you that you are rich, I guess. And cool. Or really REALLY broke (because you bought it). Or that you have something lacking in the lower department that you are compensating for.

IMO you should buy what suits you best. I don't care if my colleagues feel I am a part of high-class society if I use a MBP. Also, Thinkpads are also generally highly regarded among the buisness class, so it wouldn't matter much if you end up choosing either of them.

[iLLucionist]

We are forgetting the most important question in consumer behavior:  which device is more accepted by your peers?

Good point. Well, having the MBP shows you that you are rich, I guess. And cool. Or really REALLY broke (because you bought it). Or that you have something lacking in the lower department that you are compensating for.

IMO you should buy what suits you best. I don't care if my colleagues feel I am a part of high-class society if I use a MBP. Also, Thinkpads are also generally highly regarded among the buisness class, so it wouldn't matter much if you end up choosing either of them.

Same here. I never bought MBP and felt "elite" or something (or hipster). I just bought it because of the hardware and features it packed in a relatively small and portable enclosure. The looks were just collateral satisfaction for me. Back then (excluding the MBPs with fried dedicated gpus's) MBP's "just worked". Buy --> unbox --> hit power button --> done.

[need]

We are forgetting the most important question in consumer behavior:  which device is more accepted by your peers?

Good point. Well, having the MBP shows you that you are rich, I guess. And cool. Or really REALLY broke (because you bought it). Or that you have something lacking in the lower department that you are compensating for.

LOL "rich". Most Artists I know happens to be starving, who contributes to a large portion of Mac users. Btw, what lower department are you referring to?

[iLLucionist]

We are forgetting the most important question in consumer behavior:  which device is more accepted by your peers?

Good point. Well, having the MBP shows you that you are rich, I guess. And cool. Or really REALLY broke (because you bought it). Or that you have something lacking in the lower department that you are compensating for.

LOL "rich". Most Artists I know happens to be starving, who contributes to a large portion of Mac users. Btw, what lower department are you referring to?

The department that makes men go out and buy hugenormous cars.

[vivalarevolución]

Plebes!  You're all plebes!

[iLLucionist]

Plebes!  You're all plebes!

Ah.. we found the last OS/2 user!

[tp4tissue]

I wouldn't buy an x1..

It's dual core.. for over $1000 bux

The fastest cpu in the carbon benches   5500

My 5 year old x220 benches    3930


What am I getting.. for almost $1500

[iLLucionist]

I wouldn't buy an x1..

It's dual core.. for over $1000 bux

The fastest cpu in the carbon benches   5500

My 5 year old x220 benches    3930


What am I getting.. for almost $1500

Good point. Btw. the i5-7300u comes in at around 8000 in geekbench 3 multicore.

But point me to ONE quad core 2017 laptop that is actually portable and does not throttle and overheats basically and thus lowers clock speed when under load. I couldn't find any.

[tp4tissue]

I wouldn't buy an x1..

It's dual core.. for over $1000 bux

The fastest cpu in the carbon benches   5500

My 5 year old x220 benches    3930


What am I getting.. for almost $1500

Good point. Btw. the i5-7300u comes in at around 8000 in geekbench 3 multicore.

But point me to ONE quad core 2017 laptop that is actually portable and does not throttle and overheats basically and thus lowers clock speed when under load. I couldn't find any.

hahaha..

NONE of them overheat Except on those power-virus benchmarks/stresstests.

If you come from the overclocking community, you have very warped views as to what overheating is.. and the conditions for which they happen.

As for portable.. I'd say the majority of 15inchers are portable enough, should you need that power on the go.

The battery is the biggest issue, because quadcores will chew through the smaller, flatter batteries,  because the smaller the battery's physical size, typically, the less current capacity it has..

So in the ultramobile space, you got these tiny cells, but if you draw too much current from them, they deteriorate real fast, because the nodes are thinner material.

[vivalarevolución]

I wouldn't buy an x1..

It's dual core.. for over $1000 bux

The fastest cpu in the carbon benches   5500

My 5 year old x220 benches    3930


What am I getting.. for almost $1500

For once, I agree with tp.  Just get a quad core laptop.  Dual core just can't it for the true professional

[tp4tissue]

I'd say TODAY, dell has the best product for portable with them infinity display lappies..

xps 15.. best design imho..

you get a full powered i7 7700hq for $1500..  + a dedicated gpu..  for dota 2 on the go.

upgradable to 32gb ddr4.. i mean.. COME ON..

we're talking 2.5x the cpu performance and 3x the gpu performance for the same money..

The x1 carbon is thin and light, but it's so anemic for that price you pay.

I mean.. in such a compact chassis.. it's pretty awesome.



Heres the thing too.. If you don't like the laptop,  just send it back, they'll give you a full refund..

if you like it,  call for a refund anyway,  and they'll offer you something like 50 to 80 bux refund to reconsider

hahahah but don't do that, that's scamm-ie

[Leslieann]

MBP has some serious issues, not sure how many have been fixed, but the ports are problematic to say the least.  Also after having traveled the Apple path, it;s not nearly the roses it (supposedly) once was. It wouldn't even reach my top ten list of laptops to buy.

As for the X1 Carbon, I love them, one of my favorites.
However, the better buy is the business class X or T series. While not as svelte, they're better built, better battery life, more conventional memory, and in the case of the T series, more memory. You will pay a bit more by the time you equal the specs of the Carbon, but there is a good reason for that. Best of all, you can repair it yourself, and by the time you need to do that (expired warranty), parts for it will be cheap.

Another option as mentioned is the XPS, probably the best consumer grade laptop on the market at the moment.

[tp4tissue]

MBP has some serious issues, not sure how many have been fixed, but the ports are problematic to say the least.  Also after having traveled the Apple path, it;s not nearly the roses it (supposedly) once was. It wouldn't even reach my top ten list of laptops to buy.

As for the X1 Carbon, I love them, one of my favorites.
However, the better buy is the business class X or T series. While not as svelte, they're better built, better battery life, more conventional memory, and in the case of the T series, more memory. You will pay a bit more by the time you equal the specs of the Carbon, but there is a good reason for that. Best of all, you can repair it yourself, and by the time you need to do that (expired warranty), parts for it will be cheap.

Another option as mentioned is the XPS, probably the best consumer grade laptop on the market at the moment.

I still tote my x220, because tp4 can't fordz a new laptop.. otherwise, I'd get the xps 15.


But deep down.. I actually want to buy an x230.. overall, i'm not daunted by soldering the bios chip.

[mrboovn]

I'd say TODAY, dell has the best product for portable with them infinity display lappies..

xps 15.. best design imho..

you get a full powered i7 7700hq for $1500..  + a dedicated gpu..  for dota 2 on the go.

upgradable to 32gb ddr4.. i mean.. COME ON..

we're talking 2.5x the cpu performance and 3x the gpu performance for the same money..

The x1 carbon is thin and light, but it's so anemic for that price you pay.

I mean.. in such a compact chassis.. it's pretty awesome.



Heres the thing too.. If you don't like the laptop,  just send it back, they'll give you a full refund..

if you like it,  call for a refund anyway,  and they'll offer you something like 50 to 80 bux refund to reconsider

hahahah but don't do that, that's scamm-ie

+1 for XPS 15,it has the best screen I have seen on a Windows laptop 

[PollandAkuma]

I have the new X1, it's seriously amazing. I was using a MBP 2011 before that. I don't give a **** about whether it's Apple or Windows, but X1 can play games and the keyboard is pretty good.

[tp4tissue]

I have the new X1, it's seriously amazing. I was using a MBP 2011 before that. I don't give a **** about whether it's Apple or Windows, but X1 can play games and the keyboard is pretty good.

x1 carbon is a good product in it of itself.. no one's arguing that..

but it's $1500 we're spending here,   the xps 15 gets you a 7700hq + 1050gtx. Thats some serious power on the go..

[iLLucionist]

I have the new X1, it's seriously amazing. I was using a MBP 2011 before that. I don't give a **** about whether it's Apple or Windows, but X1 can play games and the keyboard is pretty good.

x1 carbon is a good product in it of itself.. no one's arguing that..

but it's $1500 we're spending here,   the xps 15 gets you a 7700hq + 1050gtx. Thats some serious power on the go..

Yeah but that is my whole point. XPS 9560 throttles like crazy and overheats. Also outside benchmarking. And it still has this weird quirks you never sure off that Dell will fix them or screw you over.

The XPS 9560 DOES have a relatively good battery life for mild browsing even with the 4K screen though.

[tp4tissue]

I have the new X1, it's seriously amazing. I was using a MBP 2011 before that. I don't give a **** about whether it's Apple or Windows, but X1 can play games and the keyboard is pretty good.

x1 carbon is a good product in it of itself.. no one's arguing that..

but it's $1500 we're spending here,   the xps 15 gets you a 7700hq + 1050gtx. Thats some serious power on the go..

Yeah but that is my whole point. XPS 9560 throttles like crazy and overheats. Also outside benchmarking. And it still has this weird quirks you never sure off that Dell will fix them or screw you over.

The XPS 9560 DOES have a relatively good battery life for mild browsing even with the 4K screen though.

Hahaha. you don't have to worry. they wouldn't tape out a product that Routinely overheats.  not at this scale, especially since this isn't the first version of this series of laptops.

All the reports are anecdotal, and while it's POSSIBLE to get a laptop with a bad thermal adhesive application, the fix is straightforward either performed by you yourself OR sending it back to dell.. they pay for shipping both ways..


But my point is,  this is not a systemic problem, nor is it a design oversight..

You have nothing to worry about..


The only possible risk is a small odd of getting a hot machine, for which you have to do 2 runs to the post office..




So in the end what are you evaluating.

A small chance of hot machine
2 post office runs.
PRICE to Performance Ratio..  Significantly higher for the Dell..


2 of those things are solvable at no cost..  but one of the 3 you have to live with forever.

[vivalarevolución]

I say just cut the sh!T and get a Lenovo P51.  All the benefits of a ThinkPads, with more power than you will ever need.  Yea, it's big and bulky and unsexy compared to an X1 Carbon, but portability is overrated.

[tp4tissue]

I say just cut the sh!T and get a Lenovo P51.  All the benefits of a ThinkPads, with more power than you will ever need.  Yea, it's big and bulky and unsexy compared to an X1 Carbon, but portability is overrated.

hahaha.. that's what I'd buy, but then I never go anywhere..

[Joey Quinn]

The keyboard on the new MBP should be reason enough to not get it.

When you could still do your own work on MBPs they were way better, I have one from early 2010 that is still doing quite well because I've been able to replace any of the broken components and slowly update the guts so it doesn't start feeling too slow.

[iLLucionist]

The keyboard on the new MBP should be reason enough to not get it.

When you could still do your own work on MBPs they were way better, I have one from early 2010 that is still doing quite well because I've been able to replace any of the broken components and slowly update the guts so it doesn't start feeling too slow.

If I could fix my dGPU (GT 330M 512MB) I'd keep it. Battery is with 930 cycles still 86% health -- good enough for me. But it's heavy (2.6kg).

I have a new philosophy: raw power at my workstation, less power mobile but better battery life and form factor (weight). My workstation benches around 14000 with i7-6700K, 64GB DDR4, 950 Pro NVME and GTX 980 Ti strix OC DC2.

So when I have to do heavy calculations that nobody gives me resources for at the office (there I have a i3 something something mobile in a thin client wtf for an academic scientist who does statistics all day) I do it at home.

On the get go, I only do light SPSS/R and Word + Excel and browsing kittens, 9gag and GH (duhh). Take it to meetings. Take it to the ho's to impress 'm.

[vivalarevolución]

.

On the get go, I only do light SPSS/R and Word + Excel and browsing kittens, 9gag and GH (duhh). Take it to meetings. Take it to the ho's to impress 'm.

In that case, I change my recommendation because you will need something sexy and attractive.  Go with the MacBook.

[tp4tissue]

.

On the get go, I only do light SPSS/R and Word + Excel and browsing kittens, 9gag and GH (duhh). Take it to meetings. Take it to the ho's to impress 'm.

In that case, I change my recommendation because you will need something sexy and attractive.  Go with the MacBook.

hahahaha. yea..

If you will be SEEEN using this by females..  YOU MUST haz the Macbook..


It is the only laptop recognized by the single ladies as NOT POOR..


If you show up at a coffee shop or library ,  and you use a toshiba satellite,  = INSTANT Rejection..


This is especially important if ya'll got a kid in college..  Def get them a macbook, even if it's a previous year model..

[iLLucionist]

.

On the get go, I only do light SPSS/R and Word + Excel and browsing kittens, 9gag and GH (duhh). Take it to meetings. Take it to the ho's to impress 'm.

In that case, I change my recommendation because you will need something sexy and attractive.  Go with the MacBook.

hahahaha. yea..

If you will be SEEEN using this by females..  YOU MUST haz the Macbook..


It is the only laptop recognized by the single ladies as NOT POOR..


If you show up at a coffee shop or library ,  and you use a toshiba satellite,  = INSTANT Rejection..


This is especially important if ya'll got a kid in college..  Def get them a macbook, even if it's a previous year model..

Hahaha great piece of advice there, good thinking.

But have you tried to type on a MacBook? I mean, an iPad types better than the MacBook. As a matter of ****t, the iPad is one big Touch-yourself-bar. So win right?

MacBook is even worse to type on than the new MacBook "Pro".

[vivalarevolución]

Don't know what happened here

[iLLucionist]

you get a full powered i7 7700hq for $1500..  + a dedicated gpu..  for dota 2 on the go.

I forgot to commend you. Obligatory:

So I see you are a man of culture as well!

[tp4tissue]

.

On the get go, I only do light SPSS/R and Word + Excel and browsing kittens, 9gag and GH (duhh). Take it to meetings. Take it to the ho's to impress 'm.

In that case, I change my recommendation because you will need something sexy and attractive.  Go with the MacBook.

hahahaha. yea..

If you will be SEEEN using this by females..  YOU MUST haz the Macbook..


It is the only laptop recognized by the single ladies as NOT POOR..


If you show up at a coffee shop or library ,  and you use a toshiba satellite,  = INSTANT Rejection..


This is especially important if ya'll got a kid in college..  Def get them a macbook, even if it's a previous year model..

Hahaha great piece of advice there, good thinking.

But have you tried to type on a MacBook? I mean, an iPad types better than the MacBook. As a matter of ****t, the iPad is one big Touch-yourself-bar. So win right?

MacBook is even worse to type on than the new MacBook "Pro".

My brother got the new Macbook Pro 15" and I took it for a short ride (he's an Apple devotee that leases Apple products through his business).  The typing experience wasn't as bad as I expected on the new keyboards.  Barley any key travel, but effectively tactile and loud.   But because Apple now insists on minimal spacing between keycaps, it led to plenty of accidental key presses.   

vivalarevolución  You might haz spyware..

[iLLucionist]

.

On the get go, I only do light SPSS/R and Word + Excel and browsing kittens, 9gag and GH (duhh). Take it to meetings. Take it to the ho's to impress 'm.

In that case, I change my recommendation because you will need something sexy and attractive.  Go with the MacBook.

hahahaha. yea..

If you will be SEEEN using this by females..  YOU MUST haz the Macbook..


It is the only laptop recognized by the single ladies as NOT POOR..


If you show up at a coffee shop or library ,  and you use a toshiba satellite,  = INSTANT Rejection..


This is especially important if ya'll got a kid in college..  Def get them a macbook, even if it's a previous year model..

Hahaha great piece of advice there, good thinking.

But have you tried to type on a MacBook? I mean, an iPad types better than the MacBook. As a matter of ****t, the iPad is one big Touch-yourself-bar. So win right?

MacBook is even worse to type on than the new MacBook "Pro".

My brother got the new Macbook Pro 15" and I took it for a short ride (he's an Apple devotee that leases Apple products through his business).  The typing experience wasn't as bad as I expected on the new keyboards.  Barley any key travel, but effectively tactile and loud.   But because Apple now insists on minimal spacing between keycaps, it led to plenty of accidental key presses.   

vivalarevolución  You might haz spyware..

Nahh... that's what Win10 telemetry does to you. It not only collects keypresses, it also SENDS keypresses to your OS. so basically a telemetry officer f**ked up whilst spying on vivalarevolución and accidentally sent some stuff into the textbox.

[vivalarevolución]

No, looks like copied and pasted my email inbox.

Looks like copied and pasted my email inbox.  I did this from my phone.  Weird and embarrassing.  For the people that nested my quote, I would appreciate if you deleted the quote.

[vivalarevolución]

Is is going to nest another quote?  Seriously, WTF is happening here.

[iLLucionist]

Is is going to nest another quote?  Seriously, WTF is happening here.

No worries, I'll try to edit it out.

EDIT: It seems that the "QUOTE" function does not look up the data under the original reference ID apparently, since you deleted the original text? Then it must just be a styling thing, showing your author name above it.

[Meyvn]

If you like Windows, it might seem reasonable to compare Windows laptops and Macs directly. For those who greatly prefer macOS, the only meaningful thing to do is compare Macs to other Macs. Of course, by that standard, the latest generation of Macs is definitely still overpriced, and it usually makes more sense to buy NOS previous gen models. But it isn't really an even comparison with any Windows machine if you love and rely on macOS. It just isn't meaningful to compare specs in that way.

I mean, surely we can understand this if anyone can. If you don't like Cherry MX and you love Topre, are $40 Qisan boards relevant to your decision making process? Are $120 Ducky ones?

[Badwrench]

Just in case you were still looking.  i7 6560U with iris pro graphics, QHD screen, and 512gb ssd XPS13 for $1169.99 with coupon code: TENOFF
I don't know the expiration date of this promo, but it is from today's PCmag deals email.

http://deals.dell.com/productdetail/diw?prg=1&VEN1=12578053-3796334-33e5dc39-d09c-4cc4-b790-b0e25bf22526&AID=3796334&dgc=CJ&DGSeg=DHS&cid=198375&lid=45846&acd=12309198375458460&VEN3=813003910173167176

[Altis]

I've been looking to possibly replace my 2010 17" MacBook pro as my needs have changed quite a bit.

Looked at MacBook Pros... start at CAD $1900 for base 13", dual-core i5 U, 8GB RAM, clamshell design, no touch/pen... 15" starts at CAD $3000.

Meanwhile, Lenovo Yoga 720 15" comes in at CAD $1700, has 15.6" 4k IPS display with touch+pen+360 degree hinge (love tent mode), quad-core i7 7700HQ, 16 GB DDR4-2133 RAM, GTX 1050, and 512 GB PCIe SSD. There's also a CAD $1400 version that's 1080p IPS touch+pen+360deg, 8 GB DDR4, and 256GB PCIe SSD (all other specs the same)... that's around $1040 USD, which is really good for a convertible with 7700HQ + 1050.

Then there's the 13" that's CAD $1100, more similar to the base MBP for $800 less (i5 7200U, 8GB RAM, 256 GB PCIe SSD), but has touch+pen+convertible.

The HP Spectre x360 15.6" is also a contender, at CAD $1900 as well, with 4k IPS 15.6" display with touch+pen+360 degree hinge, comes with stylus pen, i7 7500U, 16GB RAM, 940MX, 256, 11 hour battery life (from reviews)...

And the Lenovo/Dells have some ports other than just USB-C/TB3 (which they have).

I can't decide between those, though, as I've heard questionable things about the reliability of the Spectre, but that seems to be the previous version and mostly 13"... hmm...

Exactly: better keyboard, ports (and not dongles), and better battery life.

Yes yes... perhaps some people like OS X better. I used to as well. Until I switched to Win 7 (and XFCE on linux) and noticed how much OS X lags these days (El Crapitan), like Windows Vista used to. Using El Capitan (which I have done since it came out... been using Mac since 2005) is like running Win 95 on a 386 (if that was even possible).

Yeah MacOS is in serious need of re-work. It's so laggy and unresponsive (input blocking) compared with either Windows or Linux. Window management is also dismal (BetterSnapTool is a must).