Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:06:48
When you get into the mechanical keyboard hobby, you learn a few things right away:
- Acquiring stuff is part & parcel of the hobby -- it's an inherently materialistic pursuit
- There's always something new to try, and the 'perfect switch' to chase
- You're always subject to the fear of missing out (FOMO) because of Group Buy and artisan dynamics - the really interesting stuff isn't available at regular retail, so there's constant pressure to buy now or get left behind
- Building a collection this way is addicting - it's called WalletHack for a reason
I got my first mechanical keyboard, a Das Professional, in January 2011. That lasted me a couple years because I didn't know I was missing out on anything. That, of course, changed when I stumbled upon GeekHack in 2013. I lurked for quite a while before joining on 1/31/14. So my one-year anniversary is coming up in about a week.
2014 was an amazing year for me business-wise, so I had disposable income -- a lot more than ever before in my life (I'm 26 for context) -- and I spent a damn lot of money on this hobby in 2014. Like, I'm not going to say how much because I don't want you guys to think I'm out of my damn mind. It was too much. I don't think I was the number one spender on GH but I've read some threads on the subject, and let's just say it was quite a bit more than average.
You might think this sounds great, to have a great year and be able to go nuts on keyboards. Well, let me tell you, it wasn't that great.
It did bring me happiness (and of course the pleasure of interacting with you all :-*) but reflecting on it, it did not bring me a proportional amount of happiness. Not even close, really. Moreover, I often felt I should scale back, but I had acute GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and FOMO, and honestly, I didn't feel in control of my spending. In fact I would say that it caused almost as much anxiety in the end as happiness.
I'm not trying to be melodramatic. I didn't break the bank or go into debt, my financial situation is fine. But I spent a LOT of money that, looking back now and ahead to my future, would do me a lot more good in my savings account than in keyboards.
It's uncomfortable to think about, but this kind of thing really does have a lot in common with, say, substance addiction. I know personally, I bought many expensive setups that I told myself would be my end-game, only to find that weeks later, I had my eye on something else completely and then I'd rationalize buying it too.
I made another big purchase this month, something I've wanted for a while (And I'll definitely post about it when I get it. :p) But, this really made me pause for a while and assess my situation. The way I've spent on this hobby in the past won't do any lasting damage, fortunately, but that doesn't mean it wasn't reckless, because it was.
The thing about growing up is that you become responsible for all your own decisions. No one can tell you how to live your life. If you want to push yourself beyond your comfort zone, and experience new things, put yourself in challenging situations (personally, socially, professionally, etc) you can do it. Or you can stay in your comfort zone, nerding out and living a low key life. When you're a kid, your parents (hopefully) push you to try new things, and the system keeps you advancing -- through middle, high school, maybe college, etc. But once you hit adulthood, which many of us are barely into, or still looking ahead to, nobody makes you do anything. You are the captain.
My dad's a white collar professional. He does well for himself. However he also spends at the edge of his means. He's not in debt or living paycheck to paycheck like so many Americans, but his spending patterns have been such that he doesn't really have a solid retirement plan. He spends a lot of money on hobbies, travel, etc. Lives a high quality of life now but eventually there will be consequences for it. I know he understands this but it does not seem to change his actions -- the habits are ingrained.
Looking back at 2014 I can see his behavior manifested in my own behavior. Kids tend to grow up thinking that what their parents do is OK, and the way things should work. In that respect I realized my money management skills were shaping up to be too much like my dad's. (Disclaimer: I love you Dad and if you ever for some reason stalk me and read this, don't take it personally, you are still the best Dad ever...)
But we are all ultimately captains of our own destiny, and there is no guardian angel who is going to come down and say, "Hey intelli78, maybe you should get these dumb ass habits under control before they become a lifelong pattern."
This is getting to be more epic than anybody needs in GH Off Topic, so let's take it back down to keyboards:
I am committing to unhacking my wallet in 2015, and I'm posting about it so maybe it'll inspire someone else to unhack theirs as well.
By now, I know what are my favorite switches, and I own plenty of awesome boards. I don't need any more. In the remainder of 2015, I'm going to enjoy what I already have and take a step back from the constant Classifieds section madness. I hope it gives me a new appreciation for what I have and that's a big thing that I hope goes deeper than just the keyboard hobby. I also hope it helps me put some serious money into savings instead of into keyboards, and gives me more time to level-up my keyboard knowledge. (There's another aspect too: GH is a bad distraction at work. Gotta stop checking it all the time!)
That's not to say I'm going 100% cold turkey, that is rarely the right approach. There are a few purchases I've been planning that I'm going to go through with:
- A Phantom project that I'm doing right now.
- When they happen, GMK Hyperfuse and Photekq's Classic Beige.
- Finally, a Triumph Adler G80-3000 that should be getting plucked from the depths of China later this summer - my personal holy grail. :cool:
Those purchases represent a reasonable annual budget for the hobby, at least for me. Much more reasonable than my first year, at least. Probably will come out to be around $1-1.5k, or a little more than $100/month over the year. That's a reasonable amount of money to spend on a hobby.
I'm also going to sell some neat stuff so for those of you still in the hack, you can look forward to that.
But all other purchases are receiving a moratorium. If the HHKB 3 itself comes down from heaven next month, I'm going to force myself to sit it out until next year. I'm also going to sit out cap sales for the rest of the year. Why? To develop new habits of delaying gratification and improving my money management skills.
The final part of this is, I know I am not the only one here who's experienced this. We had a thread recently about avoiding debt and so on, and I know for some people there is more truth than they would like to admit about the Wallethack joke. I hope that by sharing this, it makes you think about your own experience. I know some members like Melvang have a strict budget that they stick to, and I just really admire that. Others may be at the opposite end of the spectrum like me in 2014. If your gut tells you you're getting wallethacked to the point it's a problem for you, maybe consider stepping up and joining me. You don't have to set the same goals as me, just whatever makes sense for yourself. And we can commiserate together :D
If you have read this far, thank you, and I really hope that you gained something from reading. Some of this was actually really uncomfortable to write, I don't usually like sharing anything personal. But there it is.
Finally, I hope this didn't come off as overly narcissistic. :)) I know in some respects this comes off as a first-world problem, but in my opinion it's really about some core universal issues that apply to everyone in the hobby (and really, in life). :thumb:
Post by: iri on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:26:11
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Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:30:23
Last year I resolved not to spend more than $100 a month on keyboards and I've been sticking to it so far, the first couple of months I blew through my cash instantly but the last couple I've barely even thought about it. I'm still going to collect but I'm keeping it to things I will actually use (ie. Brobots, Clacks and GMK sets). Luckily I've got two custom 60% boards now in addition to my Filco and four GMK/Cherry sets so that should keep me satisfied until Hyperfuse arrives.
Much happier now, not constantly worrying about how I'm going to pay for GB's or selling off other items to fund the madness. Haven't made a keyboard related purchase on eBay in months either, realised after a while that while it can be fun browsing through eBay looking at all the interesting vintage boards 99% of them are useless for modern boards. Better off buying something with a keycap friendly layout first time and then picking up a decent set of caps off the classifieds instead of stuffing around with vintage sets.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:37:33
and once you find your perfect switch, you cease all your activities besides posting in the off-topic section.
(Attachment Link)
This is... overwhelmingly true :p
Great read man, thanks for that. Much like yourself I spent entirely too much money on this hobby in the early days because I got swept up in the hobby, wasn't until I started adding up all the purchases that I realised how reckless I was being. I'd rationalise things however I needed to in order to buy things and then wonder why the items would sit there un-used.
Last year I resolved not to spend more than $100 a month on keyboards and I've been sticking to it so far, the first couple of months I blew through my cash instantly but the last couple I've barely even thought about it. I'm still going to collect but I'm keeping it to things I will actually use (ie. Brobots, Clacks and GMK sets). Luckily I've got two custom 60% boards now in addition to my Filco and four GMK/Cherry sets so that should keep me satisfied until Hyperfuse arrives.
Much happier now, not constantly worrying about how I'm going to pay for GB's or selling off other items to fund the madness. Haven't made a keyboard related purchase on eBay in months either, realised after a while that while it can be fun browsing through eBay looking at all the interesting vintage boards 99% of them are useless for modern boards. Better off buying something with a keycap friendly layout first time and then picking up a decent set of caps off the classifieds instead of stuffing around with vintage sets.
Dude, glad you were able to get it under control. You make a really good point too about browsing. The natural mindset is:
see something cool --> must own it
However it often turns out that owning it is not as great as you expect. A surprising amount of pleasure can be had just by enjoying photos online and living vicariously...
Post by: tbc on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:43:34
if you only have one good (or not so much) reason for spending money on a purchase, then it's probably not a good idea to make that purchase in the first place.
eg
buy edox - OK - for fun and to improve hand health - if i didn't have carpal tunnel, then this would have been a bad purchase
buy numpad - BAD - because it looks cool - i KNOW that i won't use it and the ONLY reason i want it is for bling
prechopped salad - GOOD - healthy, prevents hunger, is cheap, encourages me to eat more veggies because of convenience
at the end of the day, you'll find a highly correlation between regrettable purchases and 'just because' reasons. it seems like this is incredibly obvious to everyone, but out of sight, out of mind yes?
i think that's as understandable as i'm ever going to get...
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:46:57
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:47:01
Dude, glad you were able to get it under control. You make a really good point too about browsing. The natural mindset is:
see something cool --> must own it
However it often turns out that owning it is not as great as you expect. A surprising amount of pleasure can be had just by enjoying photos online and living vicariously...
Yep. It's really easy to get swept up browsing the photos here and feeling like you need "catch up". Fact of the matter is there is ALWAYS someone who has something awesome. Trying to keep up with the Joneses just isn't worth it.
I've adopted the "sleep on it" attitude when it comes to purchases online now, I used to just rip out the Paypal account the second I found something at the right price but now I wait till the next day and I can usually rationalise not needing it.
Unless it's a Brobot or a Clack, those guys still have the keys to the kingdom :))
Post by: iri on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:47:43
at the end of the day, you'll find a highly correlation between regrettable purchases and 'just because' reasons.you never know if buying a keyboard with the desirable seemingly-perfect switch will be regrettable or not.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 04:49:47
at the end of the day, you'll find a highly correlation between regrettable purchases and 'just because' reasons.you never know if buying a keyboard with the desirable seemingly-perfect switch will be regrettable or not.
Most of those problems can be solved with a switch tester these days though, at least with MX. Most people should be able to narrow it down to one or two switches based off a couple of minutes with the tester. Topre is a whole other story though and it can be pricey to try them out, one of the main reasons I haven't gone down that path.
Post by: kurplop on Fri, 23 January 2015, 05:16:39
I have gained much from the GH community. I've got to meet some very nice people and have learned a lot. I think the trick is to make sure that we are controlling our desires and not the other way around.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the community.
Post by: iri on Fri, 23 January 2015, 05:37:17
a tester will show you 20% of truth.at the end of the day, you'll find a highly correlation between regrettable purchases and 'just because' reasons.you never know if buying a keyboard with the desirable seemingly-perfect switch will be regrettable or not.
Most of those problems can be solved with a switch tester these days though, at least with MX. Most people should be able to narrow it down to one or two switches based off a couple of minutes with the tester. Topre is a whole other story though and it can be pricey to try them out, one of the main reasons I haven't gone down that path.
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 23 January 2015, 05:44:28
I have always been terrible with money too, it got to a point where I had to borrow money from parents and cash in some bonds I had because I was unable to get out of my overdraft every month, not just because of keyboards, but because I just bought everything impulsively. This year I have come into some money which is going on a house, and I know if I don't sort my life out, then I am going to get to a point where my house gets repossessed. Which is definitely not something I want to happen.
Budgeting is very important. I am starting up various accounts this year so I can plan my budget. One savings account for each thing I want, and I will put about £100 in each at the start of the month so I don't spend it, and then when I get to a milestone, or when I want to get something, I just take it out of the relevant savings account, rather than just taking it straight out of my current account.
The way I see it now, is that if I keep going for these artisan sales and raffles, I'm just going to end up with caps that I don't do anything with. Or I'm going to end up disappointed. And I would feel pretty bad if I was to hoard something, or be given/sold something just to then trade or sell them off.
So my three projects this year are:
- Get the MX Blacks on my KC108 swapped out for MX Greys (**** linear switches)
- Buy myself a topre board. Probably not a HHKB
- Get a real custom built GON TKL to put my Cherry Replica set on
And then that's it. Not much to ask :P
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 23 January 2015, 05:48:13
not to say you'll discover your preferences right away, but the more you understand, the easier it will be to find them. i did recognize early on that my keyboard will be a 75% with standard profile aluminum case, with GMK caps. eventually i also realized i wasn't longer into artisan caps and colorful LEDs as i had been previously. switches are the most difficult component to 'finalize', but i had the fortune of testing blacks and reds on my friend's keyboards and i found blacks to be the smoothest, if somewhat heavy and unsuitable for extended periods of time, so i decided on 55g springs for my dream build. all of these choices can be made with a decent understanding of the hobby. not that i care what people do with their money, but, say, if it took you 3 Cherry boards to discover that Topre is your one true switch, or it took you 3 SP and/or WASD sets to realize that the only keycaps you can tolerate are thick, delicious and juicy German-made GMK sets.. that's a lot of money you could have saved if you had invested some more time into finding out what you like best
same concept can be applied to other hobbies: if you fancy a $2k watch, don't spend too much time or money finding lookalikes, just save up for the one you want. you'll probably not feel the same satisfaction as owning the real deal anyway, why bother? i'm aware that it can be more about the journey than the destination, but if money is short, you should really cut down the distance traveled and save on gas. my 2 gallons
Post by: iri on Fri, 23 January 2015, 05:50:06
Post by: Signature on Fri, 23 January 2015, 06:07:58
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 23 January 2015, 06:31:21
If I decide to sell this can I definitely get at least what I paid including shipping?
If yes, I consider buying it. If not, I scrap it unless it's a keyboard I desperately want (surprisingly rare) and know I will probably never want to sell.
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 23 January 2015, 06:38:06
I came to the realization right about middle of last year and shared with one member that I needed to curtail this spending. I made a few rules for myself:
1) no more keyboard purchase. After having 2 Topre (end game stuff, right?), 1 MX Clear and 1 Alps and having only two hands and two computer (work and home), I should not need any more keyboards.
2) limit myself to just CC skulls and Brobots. These are my favorites anyway and I'm a minimalist so why make the keyboard looked like a unicorn vomit with so many different designs. Just keep it to two: skulls and bots. I thought I was pretty successful in this aspect.
3) no purchase from classifieds anymore. It's ok to buy from the artisan during their sales but no after market prices anymore. I stopped looking at classifieds.
I am happy to say that it went pretty well. I looked at my spreadsheet which I tracked these stuff and I think ended up pretty good at controlling myself. I am no more happier than when I bought these stuff, so, not spending money and feeling the same way, feels great actually.
There were a few times I broke the rules - I bought a 2TU for $110 recently and a Topre orange blanks set and a couple more - but I think these are more exception to the case. I buy because these are rare stuff, not because of "fear of missing out" or maybe I am just kidding myself. Anyway, I am glad that the impulse only came out once in a while.
It's a great confession, intelli, and I think many of us really need to look at this 'addiction' and asked if we really need so many of these keyboards and its accessories anymore.
So there! Let's keep each other motivated and keep to our own rules.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 06:40:22
I stopped looking at classifieds.
This is a big one for me. Apart from a quick glance every now and again for clack trades I don't bother looking at FS items. The first 6 months I practically lived in that sub!
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 23 January 2015, 06:41:45
And then I found that someone sold an OG Tri in Deskthority classifieds for just $80 Euro! OMG!!!!!!I stopped looking at classifieds.
This is a big one for me. Apart from a quick glance every now and again for clack trades I don't bother looking at FS items. The first 6 months I practically lived in that sub!
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 23 January 2015, 07:58:10
Use um' Don't Collect um'..
Tp4 Approved (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/pretty-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862516)
Post by: JPG on Fri, 23 January 2015, 08:08:09
and once you find your perfect switch, you cease all your activities besides posting in the off-topic section.
(Attachment Link)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yea, since I found the model F and found 2 of them in a good enough layout (AT and F122), I pretty much stopped getting interested in most things. More so since there's not much to get to customize a BS board and I don't have the time/finance to always try to get into the novelty game. In fact, it's probably much better for my finances.
But honestly, if I didn't have a family that I need to sustain, I would probably have spent much more money than I did.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 23 January 2015, 08:36:28
I realized this quite quickly when I developed some RSI due to playing typing games..
I moved from fullboard to TKL, to Topre TKL (FVck TOPRE, liars, this is exactly like my regular keyboard) to 2x TKL (one per hand), finally to Ergodox.
Ergodox was the end game.. using it, I was able to solve ALL of the ergonomic issues I had. and the contrast made me realize just how Deep the problem is when it comes to the Traditional flat rectangular boards..
But be warned.. Ergodox itself is not a one stop fix.. You have to invest in the time to figure out your work space as well..
Keyboard height, placement, chair, it all has to come together for a complete experience..
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 23 January 2015, 08:49:54
And therefore the spending will not stop. tp4, you are not helping in this thread!
Keyboard height, placement, chair, it all has to come together for a complete experience..
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 23 January 2015, 08:58:09
And therefore the spending will not stop. tp4, you are not helping in this thread!
Keyboard height, placement, chair, it all has to come together for a complete experience..
Yes it does stop.. I have not really bought anything keyboard related since the Ergodox.. besides some nuts and bolts to get my setup together.. Tweaking the chair here n there... small things really..
We're talking about $10-15 tops..
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 23 January 2015, 08:59:21
I have a bad habit of wanting to collect things just for the sake of collecting them. Even when I have no space to display them, nor time to devote to restoration or assembly. I see something that I consider rare or unique, and I just have to obtain it, just for the sake of saying I own that thing. Not that I will ever use it.
My keyboard collection is out of control. I have so many, that most of them sit in storage in a closet, while a few get rotated into use. The acquisition of new keyboards really needs to stop. I pull out keyboards from the closet sometimes that I forgot I even had. And sometimes, I have multiples of the same keyboard, because of that.
I also need to stop buying things as projects. I have zero free time to devote to restoration or building of keyboards or kits. I barely have free time to swap out keycaps when I feel like it.
I love Geekhack, and I feel at home here. I get just as much out of Geekhack as I put into it, so it is rewarding for me, both for social interaction and as a hobby. I just need to cut back on the acquisition of "things."
So thank you, OP, for making me think about this for a second. I'm going to be right there with you, trying to budget for things, and not to let things stay out of control.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:05:18
Joking aside, I've always wondered how people supported this hobby. I've had a budgeting system that I've put into place when I first started my real job. I've broken that budget a few times but overall, I've kept it on pace. Which is definitely a good thing.
The second reason why I loved meetups so much is that it was a much cheaper way to experience *A LOT* about this hobby with minimal investment. Obviously the first reason is that so many GHers are cool to hang out with. But it's great to see that some of you are realizing that keeping your money right is just as important as owning that next Clack.
I know I was snarky about the budgeting stuff in another thread but I forget that not everyone grew up in a household where saving and budgeting was strict and the normal. Hopefully this helps someone people realize that they call be a baller on a budget ;)
And seriously, if you want help with your finances, check out Mint.com. I used that for a while until I setup a system that works for me.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:11:58
2015: The year of the anti-wallethack. Long live budgeting, saving, and most importantly: counting your stacks.
Joking aside, I've always wondered how people supported this hobby. I've had a budgeting system that I've put into place when I first started my real job. I've broken that budget a few times but overall, I've kept it on pace. Which is definitely a good thing.
The second reason why I loved meetups so much is that it was a much cheaper way to experience *A LOT* about this hobby with minimal investment. Obviously the first reason is that so many GHers are cool to hang out with. But it's great to see that some of you are realizing that keeping your money right is just as important as owning that next Clack.
I know I was snarky about the budgeting stuff in another thread but I forget that not everyone grew up in a household where saving and budgeting was strict and the normal. Hopefully this helps someone people realize that they call be a baller on a budget ;)
And seriously, if you want help with your finances, check out Mint.com. I used that for a while until I setup a system that works for me.
Saving is a massive goal for me this year. I've been a week to week guy my whole life despite earning good money and now that I'm getting older I just want to have a safety net. I'm on the right track though, last year put me about $5K in debt being out of work for so long but now that I'm working again I've got that cleared up and I next month I should finally be in the black.
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:15:17
not trying to be rude or anything but I often wondered how anyone can be a week to week guy? Do you just spend all the money you earn on good stuff - expensive food, clothes, entertainment, booze, clacks, cars, girls or something? I mean, I don't think I have ever had to live on a week to week. It's a very scary thing to me. I always make sure I have savings for rainy days.
Saving is a massive goal for me this year. I've been a week to week guy my whole life despite earning good money and now that I'm getting older I just want to have a safety net. I'm on the right track though, last year put me about $5K in debt being out of work for so long but now that I'm working again I've got that cleared up and I next month I should finally be in the black.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:19:02
not trying to be rude or anything but I often wondered how anyone can be a week to week guy? Do you just spend all the money you earn on good stuff - expensive food, clothes, entertainment, booze, clacks, cars, girls or something? I mean, I don't think I have ever had to live on a week to week. It's a very scary thing to me. I always make sure I have savings for rainy days.
Saving is a massive goal for me this year. I've been a week to week guy my whole life despite earning good money and now that I'm getting older I just want to have a safety net. I'm on the right track though, last year put me about $5K in debt being out of work for so long but now that I'm working again I've got that cleared up and I next month I should finally be in the black.
Nah that's not rude man, happy to explain! Honestly I've had pretty bad impulse control issues my whole life, drank a lot when I was younger but I'm coming up on 2 years without a drink now so I'm starting to put things together. Weirdly my dad was always really good with money and tried to instil good habits but once I moved out of home and had to take care of myself that all kind of went out the window.
It is pretty easy to blow through cash on day to day life in my city though, it is ridiculously expensive to live here.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:19:48
Depending on Income class..
Umm.. on the Lower side, they can't help but live paycheck to paycheck..
In the middle.. it's all the diversions, candy, online shopping, restaurants, luxury goods
In the middle-high.. luxury expense becomes an addiction..
In the High, well... theses people are owners of capital, so spending isn't much of a problem
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:21:25
Expensive in Perth? They say that there's nothing to do there! I'd imagine Sydney or Melbourne being more up and expensive.not trying to be rude or anything but I often wondered how anyone can be a week to week guy? Do you just spend all the money you earn on good stuff - expensive food, clothes, entertainment, booze, clacks, cars, girls or something? I mean, I don't think I have ever had to live on a week to week. It's a very scary thing to me. I always make sure I have savings for rainy days.
Saving is a massive goal for me this year. I've been a week to week guy my whole life despite earning good money and now that I'm getting older I just want to have a safety net. I'm on the right track though, last year put me about $5K in debt being out of work for so long but now that I'm working again I've got that cleared up and I next month I should finally be in the black.
Nah that's not rude man, happy to explain! Honestly I've had pretty bad impulse control issues my whole life, drank a lot when I was younger but I'm coming up on 2 years without a drink now so I'm starting to put things together. Weirdly my dad was always really good with money and tried to instil good habits but once I moved out of home and had to take care of myself that all kind of went out the window.
It is pretty easy to blow through cash on day to day life in my city though, it is ridiculously expensive to live here.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:28:58
Expensive in Perth? They say that there's nothing to do there! I'd imagine Sydney or Melbourne being more up and expensive.not trying to be rude or anything but I often wondered how anyone can be a week to week guy? Do you just spend all the money you earn on good stuff - expensive food, clothes, entertainment, booze, clacks, cars, girls or something? I mean, I don't think I have ever had to live on a week to week. It's a very scary thing to me. I always make sure I have savings for rainy days.
Saving is a massive goal for me this year. I've been a week to week guy my whole life despite earning good money and now that I'm getting older I just want to have a safety net. I'm on the right track though, last year put me about $5K in debt being out of work for so long but now that I'm working again I've got that cleared up and I next month I should finally be in the black.
Nah that's not rude man, happy to explain! Honestly I've had pretty bad impulse control issues my whole life, drank a lot when I was younger but I'm coming up on 2 years without a drink now so I'm starting to put things together. Weirdly my dad was always really good with money and tried to instil good habits but once I moved out of home and had to take care of myself that all kind of went out the window.
It is pretty easy to blow through cash on day to day life in my city though, it is ridiculously expensive to live here.
Yeah most people pay anywhere between 40-60% of their income on housing here, that takes up a large chunk. Public transport sucks so you have to run a car however luckily with the fuel prices going down we're getting a bit of relief, at it's peak it was about $1.40-$1.50 a litre though. Even things like public transport are expensive as hell, last time I took the train to work it cost me nearly $10 for the day and I only live like 15 minutes from work.
Post by: bowji on Fri, 23 January 2015, 09:35:42
On top of that, theres keycap sets and artisan keycaps that intrigues me. Its hard to tell myself "no" when there are so many amazing work out there. I know I have not spent anywhere near what others here have, but I understand how this hobby can go out of hand. Its only the beginning for me and Im already feeling it.
As for boards, I know Im close to my end of everything I want, one MAYBE two more boards. As for keycaps... there are a few I would like to get my hands on and once I do get lucky enough, that will come to an end as well. Hopefully everything goes well for everyone planning to "Unhack" their wallets this year. Ill be joining soon.
Goodluck!
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 23 January 2015, 10:38:32
Every noob should be forced to read it before they are allowed access into classifieds or any thread where the keywords Clack, Brobot, Artisan, etc. are invoked.
That said, I am also having difficulty keeping expenses down in this hobby despite having found my ideal layout and key switch mod. I keep wanting to buy more stuff to play with and give away, but really have run out of friends and relatives to pass my keyboards to.
Post by: slip84 on Fri, 23 January 2015, 11:05:29
However, I can't say I would be where I am on either "hobby" without having gone through a LOT of stuff to get there. It's weird. Psychologically, I know that dropping a dime on something is better (USUALLY) than dropping a nickel, but rarely do I do it. I should have just started with an HHKB and a Poker II (plus mods), but I didn't. I went through the motions (BlackWidow Ultimate > Das Keyboard > ...) and got to where I was. Fortunately, I had someone to buy most of my other keyboards.
Either way, it's a good cautionary tale. I'm looking into other hobbies now (cameras!) and doing research and then buying. I love experiencing things, but when you're looking at $600+ for a good lens, it gets a bit more daunting than a $80 keyboard or $40 set of caps.
Anyway, great post. Good advice. Sound logic.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 23 January 2015, 11:21:46
I did this pretty hardcore with headphones and I did it with keyboards. In the end, I wound up with three pair of headphones and four keyboards that I use regularly. I have a few extra sets of caps (ugh, Topre!) and some odds and ends I probably don't need.
However, I can't say I would be where I am on either "hobby" without having gone through a LOT of stuff to get there. It's weird. Psychologically, I know that dropping a dime on something is better (USUALLY) than dropping a nickel, but rarely do I do it. I should have just started with an HHKB and a Poker II (plus mods), but I didn't. I went through the motions (BlackWidow Ultimate > Das Keyboard > ...) and got to where I was. Fortunately, I had someone to buy most of my other keyboards.
Either way, it's a good cautionary tale. I'm looking into other hobbies now (cameras!) and doing research and then buying. I love experiencing things, but when you're looking at $600+ for a good lens, it gets a bit more daunting than a $80 keyboard or $40 set of caps.
Anyway, great post. Good advice. Sound logic.
I was so glad when I gave up my position shooting live music, photography is so god-damn expensive!
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 23 January 2015, 11:26:42
I see all the flashy keyboards and gizmos out there, and yes some are attractive. I actually still buy bluetooth wireless keyboards, and have found one that I do like. It wasn't expensive and does the job well. It's probably just a rubberdome, but I don't care. It feels good to type on, and I like it.
The bias about what switch is better or who has the best whatever switch is false. If you have something that you like to use, then use it! Don't buy something if you're not going to use it!
And then there are those that prey on desire for this or that. Just find a good deal and get what you really want. Don't get it because so-and-so says it's great. You're not so-and-so.
Maybe I look at it from a different perspective. I'm not a genius by far. I have thought I was right about some things and have been dead wrong. That's okay. We all learn.
Maybe being critical of someone because they like a keyboard that cost them $10 isn't so bad. They like it.
Post by: drewba on Fri, 23 January 2015, 11:59:58
Usually, I am a serial hobbyist, jumping from one hobby to the next in approximately six month intervals. But I have found something here, with the support (enabling?) of fellow Geekhackers, that just speaks to me for some reason. I too have done pretty well financially in the past few years, and allowed that to be an excuse for my spending.
I can identify with this. Friends warned me what I was getting myself and my budget in to...
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 23 January 2015, 13:46:14
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 23 January 2015, 15:23:01
I've decided not to spend anything on keyboard until I have a permanent job, and even then I will budget, keep a pool to which I will add every month and only use that amount to spend on keyboards.
This time of from spending has also allowed me to learn, that using what I've bought and experiencing it is much more gratifying than endlessly hoarding more and more, and always keep hunting for that better layout, nice keyset, etc. Again, it's not that I've gone cold turkey, but I've learnt to control.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 24 January 2015, 02:06:02
The moment of realization for me was after I tallied up everything I have ever spent on keyboards and realized just how much it was. :eek: I won't share it un-prompted, but I am not ashamed to share the number if people are interested. :blank:
At that point, I sold roughly 1/3 of my artisan caps in the Great Artisan Cap Purge of 2014, and I've been quite happy with the decision. There are times I miss them (I tend to be overly sentimental - though some of them truly were special and it makes me sad :( ), but overall I'm glad I was able to sell part of the collection. To be honest, I'm incredibly proud of myself. It's not something I normally would expect myself to be able to do (that's part of the problem!).
Now that my student loans have kicked in and are stealing away half of my income (WHAT?? :eek: ), I've had to be even more mindful of my spending, so I'm actually really happy that I started thinking about this a few months ago. I started a mindset of spending less, and it has made the adjustment much easier. :thumb:
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 24 January 2015, 03:22:29
madness induce buttons
in our heads. Overspending can happen in any hobby but keyboards are a perfect storm for fostering bad behaviors.
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 24 January 2015, 04:54:59
I don't have a lot of disposable income, and there's a couple of things I really should save up for to fix - things that are only going to get worse over time if I don't do something about them this year.
I also have other hobbies, but I try to restrict what I buy there.
I also have a family - that is a big factor in deciding whether to take part in a GB or not (more often not, these days), and whether to buy into the latest artisan sale (generally not, although CC and BroBot sales are exceptions, as for many members).
I am also a hoarder, and don't tend to sell or give away anything. At all. Ever. With one small exception recently.
Prior to moving house about 18 months ago I decided to throw out some old computers I don't use, and which probably didn't work.
The stack on the nature strip was about 1.5 metres high and about 3 metres long :eek: Old servers, workstations, cases, printers, scanners, all sorts of stuff.
The funny thing is that everything disappeared in a couple of days, and the council weren't scheduled to collect until a week later :))
Then we moved house, and I still had way too much stuff.
So at the next opportunity I chucked out another huge pile of old computer gear, this time including about 30 or 40 old (non-mechanical) keyboards. More printers. More old server. More old empty cases.
Most of that disappeared days before the council was due to collect, except the keyboards. Someone cut the cables off them, but left the actual keyboards.
This year I really have to curb my spending. As nice as the [CTRL] ALT sets are, as tempting as the latest GMK GB is, I have to resist.
This month has not been good - Bro Caps sale, KWK sale, CMYW sale - each relatively small in their own right, but contributing to an ongoing drain on my limited resources.
So I have a very short list of keyboards (SSK and RealForce TKL 55g uniform), no keycap sets (Tai Hao Dolch and Toxic are coming my way soonish, both were ordered and paid for last year), and we'll see what happens about Clacks and Bro Caps.
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 24 January 2015, 05:44:14
Post by: demik on Sat, 24 January 2015, 16:22:10
and once you find your perfect switch, you cease all your activities besides posting in the off-topic section.
(Attachment Link)
exactly.
thats why i tell everybody to just buy a hhkb already and get it over with. then join us in off topic where the gifs flow freely.
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 24 January 2015, 17:39:43
My gosh rowdy, you house must be a junkyard or something. I'm surprise the missus does not get pissed off with you!
She has her own collections of things, admittedly not quite as extensive as my collection of oldish computer hardware was.
Post by: noisyturtle on Sat, 24 January 2015, 17:42:30
It's free for students and is pretty useful once you get set up.
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 24 January 2015, 18:12:29
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 25 January 2015, 18:01:17
Try it out..
(http://s4.postimage.org/1gbhy4x2c/th_22.gif)
Post by: radio_killah on Sun, 25 January 2015, 23:01:58
On the real though. I totally agree with you Intelli. When I first got into this, I just went crazy and bought up everything that I could because I could. That wasn't and never will be a good idea for anyone.. It is hard and self control is really of the utmost importance in a collecting hobby like this. You can't have everything and you never will.
One thing that definitely saves me money is not going after any artisan caps. ^-^
Great post and well written. A must read for every GH'er in my opinion.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 26 January 2015, 10:05:15
Now that my student loans have kicked in and are stealing away half of my income (WHAT?? :eek: ), I've had to be even more mindful of my spending, so I'm actually really happy that I started thinking about this a few months ago. I started a mindset of spending less, and it has made the adjustment much easier. :thumb:
Welcome to debt slavery, the modern American tradition.
Post by: bueller on Mon, 26 January 2015, 10:10:41
... a HHKB, a B.mini, a GON HHKB styled 60%, a Viper, and an Octagon. Done.
Whoa. That must be nearly $2k of keyboards :O
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 26 January 2015, 10:37:20
Now that my student loans have kicked in and are stealing away half of my income (WHAT?? :eek: ), I've had to be even more mindful of my spending, so I'm actually really happy that I started thinking about this a few months ago. I started a mindset of spending less, and it has made the adjustment much easier. :thumb:
Welcome to debt slavery, the modern American tradition.
:-\ I'm just thankful to be in a position where I can pay off the loans. :-X But yes, welcome indeed... :rolleyes:
Post by: Johan on Mon, 26 January 2015, 11:02:04
Post by: radio_killah on Mon, 26 January 2015, 11:25:30
... a HHKB, a B.mini, a GON HHKB styled 60%, a Viper, and an Octagon. Done.
Whoa. That must be nearly $2k of keyboards :O
I try not to think about that number... But at least I don't need any more keyboards :rolleyes:
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 26 January 2015, 11:28:50
Now that my student loans have kicked in and are stealing away half of my income (WHAT?? :eek: ), I've had to be even more mindful of my spending, so I'm actually really happy that I started thinking about this a few months ago. I started a mindset of spending less, and it has made the adjustment much easier. :thumb:
Welcome to debt slavery, the modern American tradition.
:-\ I'm just thankful to be in a position where I can pay off the loans. :-X But yes, welcome indeed... :rolleyes:
Gratitude is an important component of happiness.
One of my friend's strategies is to simply wait until the laws are changed so his debts can be forgiven. Not sure how that is going to work.
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 26 January 2015, 15:56:34
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 26 January 2015, 16:50:44
When I came into the hobby a few years ago there weren't that many expensive group buys going on. A novelty SP keycap here and there but that was it.
CC was still exclusively doing raffles and living on the other end of the world meant I didn't stand a chance or was asleep.
But when I got my hands on a custom last year I went a bit crazy. Several keysets, some donor boards, various fun little bits and pieces and before I knew it I was wondering where my money was going.
When a thread here spurred me to add up all of my keyboard expenses I laughed... and then I felt a bit ashamed as well.
And since I won't be able to gain that much more money this year either I already had to say no to several really cool sets that came by this year.
This very thread motivated me to put some items up for sale that I really like but that I am simply not using either.
There is a good chance that I will go cold turkey at some point and focus on some other areas of my life that need more attention and money.
My studies (I want to do a Master's degree abroad but I need to hurry) and some of the more essential items in my life such as my bicycle and PC that are in need of replacement soon. Especially the bike.
Post by: Karura on Mon, 26 January 2015, 16:57:40
Just thought I'd share my story. I wish you good luck and hope you can cut down to just the boards you love most.
Cheers
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 26 January 2015, 17:13:00
Great topic, I wish I could put my thoughts into words so well. I too can relate to this having went all in a few times now and still questioning what I really want/like/desire in a keyboard. I'm still not sure.
I have tried to spend wisely lately and not buy everything just because, one day I'll go through everything I have and figure out what to keep and what to get rid of.
tl;dr 10/10 would read again.
Post by: Lunatique on Mon, 26 January 2015, 17:37:34
I think it's very important to be introspective about the actual cause of any behavior that is negative, so you understand the root of the problem, instead of only trying to (and often failing to) control the symptoms.
Ultimately, a keyboard is just a tool you use to interface with your computer, and if you are happy with its layout, ergonomics, and performance, then mission accomplished. All the other stuff that people in this community spend so much time obsessing over--that's just niche hobby stuff that's completely superfluous from the actual intended use of a keyboard, and have very little meaningful effect on what you actually do with the keyboard/computer. Would you want to be the guy with thousands of dollars worth of expensive keyboards but never does anything meaningful with them, or the guy with a cheap standard rubber dome keyboard but codes awesome software, or makes kickass music and videos, or writes amazing novels and screenplay on that keyboard?
Think about what's causing your anxiety with "missing out" on group buys, or must have the latest and greatest, or the need to hoard a collection. Does it have anything to do with negative personality traits that you'd like to eradicate? Is it insecurity? Emptiness? low self-esteem? Lack of meaning in your life? Self-loathing? The need to instant gratification? Avoiding more important things in your life because they are much harder to accomplish/deal with? When you can home in on the real cause of your behavior, it'll be a lot easier to control your behavior and change your mentality.
For me personally, I knew from the start when I fell into this rabbit hole that I'll be climbing out of it in probably a month or so (I even said so when I first joined), and it's taking a bit longer than I predicted, but I'm climbing my way out of it one step at a time. I've now got a concrete plan, and although I'll end up with more keyboards than I anticipated, I'm okay with that because I know exactly why I want each of them, feel that they are worth having, and I won't dwell on them, or turn this into a long-term hobby. I came into GH with the intention of doing my homework and accomplish my mission of finding the ideal keyboard for me, and once the mission is completed, that's it. That doesn't mean I will just stop paying attention completely, since I'm just a fan of tech gadgets in general, and "enjoy" finding out about new products and new trends. For example, I do photography and music, and I have lots of audio gear and photography gear, but I buy only what I actually need to create the kind of work I want to create, and I don't continue to buy stuff just to satisfy some kind of hobbyists collector's urge--I don't have that hoarding element in my personality trait (well, maybe a little, but not enough to be a real problem. I usually sell what I no longer need, and can be quite pragmatic). Even though I don't continue to buy stuff, I'm still subscribed to newsletters from photography/camera and audio sites like dpreview.com, innerfidelity.com, head-fi.com, etc. I simply like to learn about new stuff coming out, and if I see anything that can do a much better job than I what I currently have and it's worth the upgrade, I'll go for it.
I think a great way to assess whether a hobby is really worth it, is to look at what it costs versus the amount of joy you get out of it, and then compare it to another hobby/passion you have. For example, let's say you love video games, or is a big movie buff, or you love music. Look at the amount of money you spend on those hobbies versus the amount of joy you get from them, how much time they occupy in your life, how much energy you spend on them, etc. Now do the same for your keyboard hobby. Does it look like the time and money you spend on keyboards will actually get you more joy if you were to spend them on the other hobbies/passions you have? If you truly get a lot of joy out of keyboards, and you have no other important hobbies or serious aspirations and responsibilities, then good for you--enjoy yourself.
Speaking of serious responsibility and aspirations you might have in your life--are you spending the time/energy/money you should spend on them on keyboards instead? Do you have a family to take care of? Are you saving up for something meaningful/important? Do you have a retirement plan in place? Are you actively investing your money wisely (and I don't mean a savings account--I mean actual investing (IRA, stocks, index funds, mutual funds, real estate, bitcoins, gold, oil, gas, whatever), where the you to at least get significantly greater returns than the rate of inflation, and ideally double or triple it). And if you have serious aspirations in your life, then would the time/energy/money spent on keyboards be better spent on your aspirations (become a successful software developer, make indie games, write/direct a feature film, a music career as a musical artist, solve mankind's most pressing problems like the environment, human rights, cancer, etc). If you have serious aspirations, shouldn't you focus on those instead of keyboards? (My current serious aspiration is to become a novelist with a steady career, and that was one of the main reasons I started researching keyboards--I needed a better typing experience since I spend so much time typing.)
Anyway, before this post turns into a novel itself, I'll just list my current plan to end my keyboard adventure.
My plan initially was to end up with one ideal keyboard, but that was before I knew anything about the world of higher-end keyboards. The plan was then adjusted to having one keyboard that represents each of the major switch types. But that was again adjusted when I found out there are keyboards within the same switch type that I really enjoyed and wanted to keep, so now it looks like this:
Topre keyboards - I have a RealForce 87U 55g, an ergonomic weighted that's silenced, and a Leopold FC660C. I won't be getting any more. They each serve a different need (daily driver, typing when feeling fatigued, and in-bed typing on the Galaxy Note 3/traveling).
ALPS - The Matias Mini Quiet Pro is what I've chosen to represent this switch type. I don't need any others. I did order a Matias 60% with quiet switch because I think it will likely replace the Mini Quiet Pro, due to having all navigation cluster keys available. If I end up preferring it, I'll sell the Mini Quiet Pro.
Cherry MX - I have a blue Cherry (WASD V2 TKL with Retro keycap set), and I'm waiting for a RGB red cherry that is evenly lit with no light leakage (probably will be a Kailh RGB) that is sure to come eventually. The blue is for typing only, while the red is for gaming only. (I returned a Razer BlackWidow RGB and Corsair K65 RGB, due to the light leakage.)
Buckling spring - I'm waiting for Unicomp's new SSK that's coming later this year. (I had an Endurapro but returned it--the TrackPoint was disappointing, and full-size is too big.)
Programmable keyboard/Trackpoint - I want at least one fully programmable keyboard (ideally with Trackpoint), and I'm waiting for the next iteration of the TEX Yoda, which is coming around Q2 or Q3 (TEX Electronics told me this in private, so it's straight from the horse's mouth), and will have full programmability. Its implementation of the TrackPoint is really nice too, with the ability to use the middle mouse key as FN key, which is even more ideal than the MiniGuru's approach of using two FN keys on either side of the spacebar. I might still get the MiniGuru though, even if just to support lowpoly's epic endeavor.
All of that will come in under $2,000, which is nothing compared to what I've spent on pro audio/audiophile gear and photography gear. I think concluding my keyboard adventure on that note is a pretty nice ending. The whole adventure lasted less than two months, and I'll be returning my attention to my novel-writing--now armed with far better keyboards than the crap I was using. Mission accomplished. :thumb:
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 26 January 2015, 18:02:54
Would you want to be the guy with thousands of dollars worth of expensive keyboards but never does anything meaningful with them, or the guy with a cheap standard rubber dome keyboard but codes awesome software, or makes kickass music and videos, or writes amazing novels and screenplay on that keyboard?
You're drawing conclusions here that force your argument. You're viewing the keyboard only as a tool, a mean to an end, rather than as a possible "end". And you might say "well surely a keyboard is a tool, you use it to accomplish tasks." and you're right. But then why is writing amazing novels and screenplays a valued activity? Why can't the keyboard be as artistic and valued as a screenplay? Why can't I spend a bunch of money here to eventually end up with a keyboard that I view to be more valuable than any screenplay you could ever write? And who are you to tell me that it is or is not as valuable as I've just said it is?
I understand where your argument is coming from, and I don't strictly disagree; I just think that the root of your argument only applies if you share the same opinions and values as you do.
Post by: Lunatique on Mon, 26 January 2015, 19:12:43
Would you want to be the guy with thousands of dollars worth of expensive keyboards but never does anything meaningful with them, or the guy with a cheap standard rubber dome keyboard but codes awesome software, or makes kickass music and videos, or writes amazing novels and screenplay on that keyboard?
You're drawing conclusions here that force your argument. You're viewing the keyboard only as a tool, a mean to an end, rather than as a possible "end". And you might say "well surely a keyboard is a tool, you use it to accomplish tasks." and you're right. But then why is writing amazing novels and screenplays a valued activity? Why can't the keyboard be as artistic and valued as a screenplay? Why can't I spend a bunch of money here to eventually end up with a keyboard that I view to be more valuable than any screenplay you could ever write? And who are you to tell me that it is or is not as valuable as I've just said it is?
I understand where your argument is coming from, and I don't strictly disagree; I just think that the root of your argument only applies if you share the same opinions and values as you do.
Yes, but I didn't dictate what is or isn't meaningful--I said you have to assess what your own aspirations and life goals are--it could be anything, from being an Olympian athlete, a special forces operator, a professional gamer, a chef, a great father, a wonderful son, a noble humanitarian, a scientist, a custom keyboard designer/builder, to anything else. Keyboard hobby (or any other hobby) only becomes a problem if it's stealing too much time/energy/money away from your more important aspirations and responsibilities in life, and if your aspiration/goal IS to become a great keyboard modder/designer/manufacturer/retailer, then your keyboard hobby is no longer a hobby but a serious pursuit in your life. And of course, the pursuit of having an amazing keyboard in and of itself can be an aspiration/goal, and I'm not making any value judgments on whether that is a worthy goal--only you can make that judgment.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 26 January 2015, 19:20:39
Would you want to be the guy with thousands of dollars worth of expensive keyboards but never does anything meaningful with them, or the guy with a cheap standard rubber dome keyboard but codes awesome software, or makes kickass music and videos, or writes amazing novels and screenplay on that keyboard?
You're drawing conclusions here that force your argument. You're viewing the keyboard only as a tool, a mean to an end, rather than as a possible "end". And you might say "well surely a keyboard is a tool, you use it to accomplish tasks." and you're right. But then why is writing amazing novels and screenplays a valued activity? Why can't the keyboard be as artistic and valued as a screenplay? Why can't I spend a bunch of money here to eventually end up with a keyboard that I view to be more valuable than any screenplay you could ever write? And who are you to tell me that it is or is not as valuable as I've just said it is?
I understand where your argument is coming from, and I don't strictly disagree; I just think that the root of your argument only applies if you share the same opinions and values as you do.
Yes, but I didn't dictate what is or isn't meaningful--I said you have to assess what your own aspirations and life goals are--it could be anything, from being an Olympian athlete, a special forces operator, a professional gamer, a chef, a great father, a wonderful son, a noble humanitarian, a scientist, a custom keyboard designer/builder, to anything else. Keyboard hobby (or any other hobby) only becomes a problem if it's stealing too much time/energy/money away from your more important aspirations and responsibilities in life, and if your aspiration/goal IS to become a great keyboard modder/designer/manufacturer/retailer, then your keyboard hobby is no longer a hobby but a serious pursuit in your life. And of course, the pursuit of having an amazing keyboard in and of itself can be an aspiration/goal, and I'm not making any value judgments on whether that is a worthy goal--only you can make that judgment.
:thumb: I understand now. That makes a lot of sense. I must have misinterpreted your intentions in the previous comment. I agree with what you've said here though.
Post by: Belfong on Mon, 26 January 2015, 20:02:22
Think about what's causing your anxiety with "missing out" on group buys, or must have the latest and greatest, or the need to hoard a collection. Does it have anything to do with negative personality traits that you'd like to eradicate? Is it insecurity? Emptiness? low self-esteem? Lack of meaning in your life? Self-loathing? The need to instant gratification? Avoiding more important things in your life because they are much harder to accomplish/deal with? When you can home in on the real cause of your behavior, it'll be a lot easier to control your behavior and change your mentality.Great write up, Lunatique. Lots of points to ponder upon but I really like what you said about negative personality traits. This probably hit home for me and it is something that I have been thinking a lot on. And it is not just keyboard related. Before I discovered keyboard, I spent money on video games. Those Steam sales are pretty damning to the wallet and I can't help but buy them, even though I know I might not have the time to play the games. It's always a 'one day I will get to them' excuse. I stopped buying video games and the recent winter sales only saw me buying one game. Which is a great achievement for me. But of course, I bought a lot more keyboard stuff in Dec... so I didn't really improve, just shifted the focus from video games to keyboards.
You are probably correct in the lack of a goal in life. It's something I truly need to work hard on. Thanks for putting these in words. Great read and lots of think about! :thumb:
Post by: derezzed on Tue, 27 January 2015, 00:58:54
Note: This is a pretty personal message but I suspect it'll resonate with some folks, hope you find it worthwhile. I know it was helpful for me to put this into writing.
When you get into the mechanical keyboard hobby, you learn a few things right away:
- Acquiring stuff is part & parcel of the hobby -- it's an inherently materialistic pursuit
- There's always something new to try, and the 'perfect switch' to chase
- You're always subject to the fear of missing out (FOMO) because of Group Buy and artisan dynamics - the really interesting stuff isn't available at regular retail, so there's constant pressure to buy now or get left behind
- Building a collection this way is addicting - it's called WalletHack for a reason
This is an excellent post. Because this website is populated by people who are passionate about keyboards, emotions are part of the keyboard experience for us. GeekHack’s byline (“keyboard enthusiasts”) implies emotion but rarely do we reflect on how emotions affect our involvement with this hobby and its monetary costs. This post does an excellent job of covering the emotional influences that can lead to keyboard enthusiasts getting in over their heads. The Welcome new members! post contains a sentence warning us about the costs of the hobby but it doesn’t explain the reasons why this hobby is so expensive (not that there’s any obligation to). Most people will infer the reasons for the high costs of the hobby but having those reasons explicitly stated from the beginning can help people have a better relationship with the hobby.
Even in a normally rational person, FOMO can override the rational part of the decision making process. At this time, joining group buys is financially beyond justification for me. While I don’t even need that stuff, I still feel regret for missing out on some of the products available and I usually avoid even looking at those threads. If my situation was different, I am almost certain I would have more keyboards and keycap sets than I *need. (*minimum quantity defined as necessary is 10)
Another emotional influence that we overlook is the desire to identify with a group. Recommendations by GeekHackers can be accompanied by appeals to emotion (e.g. join the HHKB elite) that, even when offered in jest, may influence the purchase decision. Appeals to emotion aren't necessarily bad. The problem arises when we are not aware that our emotions may be unduly influencing our decisions. After seeing several posts implying that buying a keyboard will put them in a special social class, some people might find themselves more strongly considering buying that keyboard without being aware that the decision to buy the keyboard may have more to do with a positive emotional message or identifying with a particular social group than usability or functionality. I imagine that very few users here are affected by this but, for those who are, the effect may be subtle.
By itself, the cost of a mechanical keyboard is not generally onerous. But as intelli78 points out, the materialistic process of building a keyboard collection compounds the cost of this hobby. More self examination may help us avoid the emotional attack vector of the WalletHack. But even if we can eliminate the emotional factors that have a negative effect on our purchasing decisions, there are other factors that compound the cost of building a keyboard collection and can complicate the process of finding the keyboard (or keyboards) that is “perfect” for you. These factors are limited availability and limited information.
Limited availability drives the price of mechanical keyboards and their accessories up. Mechanical keyboards occupy a niche market. Smaller production runs and more expensive switch technology results in higher prices for mechanical keyboards. A lot of items (cases, PCBs, keycaps) that appear on GeekHack’s group buys and artisan threads are produced in very limited quantities, driving the price up even higher. And, of course, the cost of desirable vintage keyboards is driven up both by the dwindling quantity of functioning units and the decreased number of units available on the market.
Limited information often inhibits our ability to make the best decision regarding which keyboard to purchase. Using a keyboard is like getting burned, reading about it is no substitute for experiencing it firsthand. But, the option to gain firsthand knowledge of using a particular keyboard before buying it is limited or non-existent. Most of us have no way of knowing whether we will like a switch technology or a keyboard until we buy a keyboard and use it. We have no way of comparing that switch or keyboard to others until we buy another keyboard. The best option many of us have for measuring the suitableness of keyboards to ourselves is reading the opinions and personal experiences of other people. These reviews cannot possibly account for all the differences between the reviewer and every individual who incorporates his review into the purchasing decision. Our environment, our functional needs, or our personal biomechanical idiosyncrasies may render a well-regarded keyboard unsuitable for some of us. But, again, these are things we cannot evaluate when reading a review.
Eventually, we buy a keyboard. If we’re lucky, it works out for us. If we are dissatisfied (keycap profile is awkward or switches are too stiff or layout causes wrist pain, etc.), we are still stuck with our purchase. We may be able to sell it to someone else but, judging by my limited research on GeekHack, we will almost always take a loss on our sale. Whether we keep or sell a product that we are dissatisfied with, we are still left wanting a keyboard that we enjoy and we must repeat the search for our ideal keyboard(s), taking the same gamble that spending from $30 to $300 will get us something we don’t like.
You do the community a service, intelli78, by encouraging people to reflect on how they spend their money on this hobby. Understanding how our emotions influence our decision making process, and being more cognizant of the challenges inherent in our hobby may allow us to make better decisions in the future
Post by: Tyrosh22 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 16:56:52
Post by: meiosis on Fri, 30 January 2015, 17:12:27
I haven't bought anything since 2013 (other than $6 tutzi caps) keyboard related, At one point I owned just about every OTD and LZ board but was trading them off to try new ones at shipping loss to myself (probably well into $200 went to USPS in the course of a year)
I experienced Topre (twice.) and often would lose money reselling everything.
I finally grew tired of it as school ended and seemed to have gone back to being "normal" although now my craft beer expenses have exponentially increased far past my keyboard hobby ever costed me.
The keyboards I have left are all mementos that I got near groupbuy price, although recently the influx of people trying to throw $2,000 at me has made it very hard for me.
The only thing I never understood was Clacks, how can something that cost less than $5 to produce (accounting for time too post mold) go for $600++, I know it has sentimental value, but honestly I feel it's more of an addiction after a certain point (like $150)
People get addicted to collecting, but they need to stay reasonable.
To some clack raffles are just a chance at making a few hundred $.
Post by: demik on Fri, 30 January 2015, 20:33:49
Great thread, thank you all for sharing. I'm a noob and I am somehow afraid to dig deeper into this world as I might see myself spending unrational amounts of money on keyboards and related stuff.
honestly, ignore novelty caps and keysets, and you'll be fine.
nobody here actually needs all the keyboards they have. we could all live with our main board. and i'm willing to bet a lot of people would get rid of a good chunk of their stuff if it wasn't for their hoarding issues. deep down they know, hhkb is the only board they need. and if they don't, well, they deserve to go broke for not following the topre way.
Post by: Novus on Fri, 30 January 2015, 20:59:39
If you can't control your spending, get married.
If you can't afford anything, make more money.
If you can't find the perfect keyboard, get a HHKB Type-S
If you have mental issues like 95% of this board, smack yourself or drink coffee.
No need to make threads about this.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 21:00:35
This is just a dumb thread.
If you can't control your spending, get married.
If you can't afford anything, make more money.
If you can't find the perfect keyboard, get a HHKB Type-S
If you have mental issues like 95% of this board, smack yourself or drink coffee.
No need to make threads about this.
LuLz
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 January 2015, 21:22:27
i'm willing to bet a lot of people would get rid of a good chunk of their stuff if it wasn't for their hoarding issues. deep down they know, hhkb is the only board they need.
/me sobs.
It's like you know me.
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 January 2015, 21:39:18
Great thread, thank you all for sharing. I'm a noob and I am somehow afraid to dig deeper into this world as I might see myself spending unrational amounts of money on keyboards and related stuff.
This hobby is a very dark, and lonely hole of ***, nobody around you will understand why you have paid hundreds for a piece of utilitarian old technology that can easily be replaced with a cheap modern keyboard, of course, you will come here immediately looking for your peers reinforcement. However, you will always have secret regrets on your purchases unless you have reach the point where you were indoctrinated into the clacks extremes, then, you will think that paying hundreds for a piece of plastic is totally right, a piece of plastic that most of your close people will think is fugly; when you reach that point, then a new board or key set that cost hundreds will look cheaper in comparison, after all, a nice metal case worth more than a clack, ... hold on, what am I saying?. Any way, welcome to the GH reality distortion field, where members will encourage you to spend, and that will hit you with rocks when you ask why something is so expensive... some day you will start writing your very own thread titled "I am deeply depressed because...".
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 21:40:38
Great thread, thank you all for sharing. I'm a noob and I am somehow afraid to dig deeper into this world as I might see myself spending unrational amounts of money on keyboards and related stuff.
This hobby is a very dark, and lonely hole of ***, nobody around you will understand why you have paid hundreds for a piece of utilitarian old technology that can easily be replaced with a cheap modern keyboard, of course, you will come here immediately looking for your peers reinforcement. However, you will always have secret regrets on your purchases unless you have reach the point where you were indoctrinated into the clacks extremes, then, you will think that paying hundreds for a piece of plastic is totally right, a piece of plastic that most of your close people will think is fugly; when you reach that point, then a new board or key set that cost hundreds will look cheaper in comparison, after all, a nice metal case values more than a clack, what am I saying?. Any way, welcome to the GH reality distortion field, where members will encourage you to spend, and that will hit you with rocks when you ask why something is so expensive... some day you will start writing your very own thread titled "I am deeply depressed because...".
And then you start your second year of membership.
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 January 2015, 21:46:07
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:37:41
demik has attained keyboard enlightenment!i'm willing to bet a lot of people would get rid of a good chunk of their stuff if it wasn't for their hoarding issues. deep down they know, hhkb is the only board they need.
/me sobs.
It's like you know me.
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:41:00
... I am depressed.
(Attachment Link)
OH MY GOD! I've been so blind! GeekHack isn't really a site devoted to keyboards. It's research honeypot/marketing machine for Taylor Swift.
That must mean... you are all alt accounts for Taylor Swift?!
Oh my god, I have to wipe my profile before the TS mafia hunts me down and silences me.
Post by: demik on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:46:57
... I am depressed.
(Attachment Link)
OH MY GOD! I've been so blind! GeekHack isn't really a site devoted to keyboards. It's research honeypot/marketing machine for Taylor Swift.
That must mean... you are all alt accounts for Taylor Swift?!
Oh my god, I have to wipe my profile before the TS mafia hunts me down and silences me.
(http://cdn3.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/taylor-swift-bowing.gif)
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:53:42
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:03:53
[attachimg=1]
Post by: demik on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:04:57
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:15:35
every thread
This is why we can't have nice things.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:18:27
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:22:42
I am sure she is fapping over her new Mopar Diagnostic Machine and SSK as we speak,
come for the keyboards
stay for the community
Mopar Diagnostic Machine with SSK = GeekHack Sybian?
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:39:02
Mopar Diagnostic Machine with SSK = GeekHack Sybian?
(http://i.imgur.com/UZWjxZ5.gif)
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 31 January 2015, 02:16:23
Post by: Binge on Sun, 01 February 2015, 11:40:42
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 01 February 2015, 16:32:56
Post by: ideus on Sun, 01 February 2015, 16:42:32
This is a well thought out and written thread. Please don't derailed it with GIF :p
Dear Mr. Belfong: Just in case you have not noticed it, the thread has been derailed already, and not only by the GIFs; in any case these have embellished the otherwise dark and lonely stack of sadness the thread was before.
Post by: Belfong on Sun, 01 February 2015, 18:47:33
This is a well thought out and written thread. Please don't derailed it with GIF :p
Dear Mr. Belfong: Just in case you have not noticed it, the thread has been derailed already, and not only by the GIFs; in any case these have embellished the otherwise dark and lonely stack of sadness the thread was before.
Yes but the GIF made me LOL which I should not, given the tone of this thread but, ha ha ha ha ha... I can't help it!!
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 01 February 2015, 19:30:19
Post by: ideus on Sun, 01 February 2015, 19:50:31
I've noticed I have felt no remorse selling any of my boards or caps, which is rather refreshing, that way I don't get attached so any of it and I feel okay with selling at a reasonable price.
Welcome the GHA -geekhackers anonymous support group- where geekhackers are in recovery to be again productive and happy citizens.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 02 February 2015, 06:44:07
I've noticed I have felt no remorse selling any of my boards or caps, which is rather refreshing, that way I don't get attached so any of it and I feel okay with selling at a reasonable price.
Welcome the GHA -geekhackers anonymous support group- where geekhackers are in recovery to be again productive and happy citizens.
That's so true, it hurts.
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 02 February 2015, 09:15:45
**** it, embrace the wallethack. :D
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 February 2015, 09:21:00
So, I've changed my mind.
**** it, embrace the wallethack. :D
Quote
"We throw our money
Into the vaporous void
Sometimes we get stuff"
JD, the true voice of reason
Post by: Binge on Mon, 02 February 2015, 09:24:24
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 02 February 2015, 14:52:39
Post by: munch on Wed, 04 February 2015, 01:18:36
Great thread, thank you all for sharing. I'm a noob and I am somehow afraid to dig deeper into this world as I might see myself spending unrational amounts of money on keyboards and related stuff.
honestly, ignore novelty caps and keysets, and you'll be fine.
nobody here actually needs all the keyboards they have. we could all live with our main board. and i'm willing to bet a lot of people would get rid of a good chunk of their stuff if it wasn't for their hoarding issues. deep down they know, hhkb is the only board they need. and if they don't, well, they deserve to go broke for not following the topre way.
the obvious HHKB jokery aside, I have the opposite problem. if I have something laying around that I don't use or plan to use, I get really antsy about it.
my chase has always been for "the ultimate" of whatever my hobby is, for my needs and wants of course. then my real challenge tends to be selling the stuff I don't use enough.
I have always done this with my hobbies for whatever raisin. peace of mind I suppose? I get very firm with what I like and then stick to it. I end up losing a little in the long run if I discover something else I like more, but not as much as if I just have things laying around - especially if they drop in value.
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 04 February 2015, 10:58:30
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 10 February 2015, 23:46:03
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 February 2015, 22:58:47
Doing well almost two months in....
Have only bought one item I didn't plan for in OP.... a TECK from Binge.... also have sold some stuff that I was just sitting on...
The addiction is loosening its grip...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 24 February 2015, 23:08:06
Update...
Doing well almost two months in....
Have only bought one item I didn't plan for in OP.... a TECK from Binge.... also have sold some stuff that I was just sitting on...
The addiction is loosening its grip...
You're doing much better than me, intelli.
I have a problem...
Good to hear at least one person is succeeding! :D
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:16:34
But... I just worked out a partial trade for the Retro DSA set from taylordcraig.
And I'm getting a cheap Tipro to play with... But I know where this leads...nowhere good. I'm finding that my resolve increases the longer I resist buying...but even treating myself to something small is actually a considerable setback and makes it 10x easier to justify more!!
So I am refreshing my commitment and making a short term goal: I will purchase NOTHING else for the rest of March, not even a single OEM keycap. I can do this, one step at a time! Dont they have clinics for this kind of thing? Hold me accountable, Bros
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:18:12
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:19:34
What if there is a Bro Caps sale in March?Well, since I never win, it won't matter if I skip it, right?
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:20:58
ha ha ... we will be watching! :cool:What if there is a Bro Caps sale in March?Well, since I never win, it won't matter if I skip it, right?
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:47:50
I'm glad to hear that you're able to maintain your discipline. I, on the other hand, am getting ready to hack my wallet for the first time, for keyboard justice. You and berserkfan have been the voices in my head, warning me to exercise caution and be responsible when considering keyboard purchasing decisions, but, this time, your sage advice is being drowned out by the sweet siren song of custom mechanical crack.
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 06 March 2015, 07:27:49
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 March 2015, 07:49:26
I have now learned in the months of late Feb and early March, wallethack is almost inevitable because of all the GB's and boards.
My wallet has been affected also by some of the recent GBs, but I hope to keep it under control.
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 18 March 2015, 11:21:45
Post by: whentheclouds on Wed, 18 March 2015, 11:27:05
intelli, what are your feelings on acquiring your grail board? and do you see yourself getting hack'd further this year?
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 18 March 2015, 13:11:22
So far I've bought a few items I didn't budget for in the OP, but my spending is much more under control now than it was last year. I've said "no" to a lot of stuff I wanted and that's built up my willpower to resist. It's definitely hard to change a habit like this and I feel guilty for breaking my own rules a couple times, but overall things are moving in the right direction for sure .Will provide more updates.
Post by: whentheclouds on Wed, 18 March 2015, 13:25:18
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 21 March 2015, 07:30:39
the former, obviously. getting your wallet hacked in the first place is a guarantee once you signed up for the site. matter of time more than anythingI know intelli was looking for a TA and even offered finders fee. I didn't realize intelli was the OP of this thread. My spirit is broken! The only person whom I thought is wise turned out to break his own promises! I'm disillusioned! I should spend spend spend!
intelli, what are your feelings on acquiring your grail board? and do you see yourself getting hack'd further this year?
/joke!
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 21 March 2015, 10:14:34
I should spend spend spend!
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 21 March 2015, 11:29:29
Post by: effectiveduck on Fri, 27 March 2015, 04:15:43
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:18:16
- Find a niche within a niche.
- Be an objectivist.
- It takes time and effort to stumble upon actually interesting posts/articles. Although, you can simply watch a few subforums, a couple of sites like KeyChatter and stalk some members.
- Two relatively boring hours/days to clean/mod one keyboard, 'nuff said.
- There's much more to keyboards than just the hardware. Layouts, firmware, UI settings. It takes time to get used to each change, and productivity may suffer in the meantime.
- Global shipping times don't help.
Similarly, there are members, who, say, don't buy anything made after '85.
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 06 April 2015, 00:59:41
Post by: henz on Thu, 07 May 2015, 08:23:52
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:45:33
I've still got a small list of holy grail items, but they're few and far between and nothing that I'm really in a rush for. Overall I'm extremely satisfied with where my keyboard journey has taken me (left-to-right in my signature). :D
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 14 May 2015, 17:46:13
Don't ask..
Fvck..
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 15 May 2015, 04:08:01
I just spent $500 on weeaboo crap..wtf! what is that?
Don't ask..
Fvck..
Post by: tbc on Fri, 15 May 2015, 05:03:02
I just spent $500 on weeaboo crap..wtf! what is that?
Don't ask..
Fvck..
$500 in watermelons
Post by: Axollott on Fri, 15 May 2015, 05:19:52
I just spent $500 on weeaboo crap..wtf! what is that?
Don't ask..
Fvck..
$500 in watermelons
just to Drop the watermelons
Post by: madhias on Fri, 15 May 2015, 05:41:56
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 15 May 2015, 17:34:53
I just spent $500 on weeaboo crap..wtf! what is that?
Don't ask..
Fvck..
$500 in watermelons
just to Drop the watermelons
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/4fd9f2d3.gif)
Post by: Seranite on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:02:24
I just spent $500 on weeaboo crap..
Don't ask..
Fvck..
I'm asking, was it the figgurs?
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 28 May 2015, 22:48:05
I just spent $500 on weeaboo crap..$500 in sex toys
Don't ask..
Fvck..
Post by: nickheller on Thu, 28 May 2015, 22:55:48
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 17 June 2015, 15:54:12
I should mention that I use my checking account for day to day stuff and that I keep backup funds in a savings account if there were an emergency. So I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I do have less money that I'd like.
Post by: KatzenKinder on Wed, 17 June 2015, 16:47:24
I think I'm in GB's for like 7 sets right now, while only using maybe 3 keyboards of my collection. I've already got what like 10? It doesn't help that I don't NEED to get rid of anything, but deep down I know it's unhealthy to keep lusting after new things obsessively.
The artisan cap stuff is another story, I don't know if I can stop that train.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 17 June 2015, 17:08:33
Post by: 1o57 on Wed, 17 June 2015, 18:38:25
I always liked my M$ Natural keyboard, with the tilted split design- which took me to the Kinesis Freestyle 2 (of which I have one at home and one at work)- the Kinesis lead me via Google to GeekHack ala Ergo Dox....
Since joining this site, I've purchased a Poker3, several CM Storms (various switches), practically every key set that Mass Drop has had, including the Star Trek, JukeBox, etc..., MOST of the keyboards that MassDrop has had, including a custom from Korea, and many of the HolyOOps keys.....
I've already had 4 custom keys made (in batches of 100) that will be given away at Defcon- as well as TWO WASD keyboards with full custom keycap sets (which will also be given away)-
I think the trick is to live within your means- I derive joy from giving things away to others (it's why I make the puzzle and crypto games that I do for people)- and now I've found yet another avenue for that...
But to your point- yes, I have been way to active in purchases for myself.
Thankfully individual keycaps are generally pretty cheap as one-offs....
Great post, btw.
Post by: dustinhxc on Wed, 17 June 2015, 20:46:00
Post by: maxpegasus on Thu, 02 July 2015, 18:30:37
Just started this hobby the beginning of this year but I'm already three keyboards and several artisan keycaps deep :eek:
Encouraging to see others prioritizing self-control and delayed gratification for personal and financial wellness. I'll be trying to exercise more self-restraint in the coming months as well :thumb:
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 04 July 2015, 06:00:36
Going to need to unload some of my artisan collection to compensate. And hope that the end of V2's means future sales are less tenping... Yeah, right...
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 04 July 2015, 06:40:20
I just want to say, I am reading all the replies. Thanks for sharing your stories! I hope everyone is eventually able to achieve peace of mind and wallet.Is that the reason you are unloading some caps, speaking of which I've also PMed you, if it's still available :)
Post by: KatzenKinder on Sat, 04 July 2015, 12:59:42
I did a bad thing: BroCaps sale. With the new prices it's amazing how quickly the total rises.
Going to need to unload some of my artisan collection to compensate. And hope that the end of V2's means future sales are less tenping... Yeah, right...
I'm always here for you hehehehe ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
edit: oh no my self control
Post by: Eszett on Sat, 04 July 2015, 13:41:46
And I don't think that this hobby is mainly about spending money and piling up goods. For me it is about learning the technical knowhow for do-it-yourself keyboards, which aren't even necessarily expensive. Tinkering and getting things done normal people have no ability for. That is keyboard hacking for me. McGuyvering keyboards, so to say.
Post by: KatzenKinder on Sat, 04 July 2015, 22:03:54
Ah! You are whining, that you've earned too much money, so you had to spend an insane amount of it on keyboards. Zero comiseration for that from my side :-) Obviously things in your life go way too well, so that you don't suffer from real problems. Don't get me wrong. I envy you for your "little" problems.
And I don't think that this hobby is mainly about spending money and piling up goods. For me it is about learning the technical knowhow for do-it-yourself keyboards, which aren't even necessarily expensive. Tinkering and getting things done normal people have no ability for. That is keyboard hacking for me. McGuyvering keyboards, so to say.
Unless you're joking, this is super douchey. You can always argue that there are worse problems, but this is something I know at least I struggle with as well. It's just being personally responsible, I'm sure the man has other problems in his life as well.
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 04 July 2015, 22:08:20
If this was a one sentence thing, it might have been a joke, but this took some time to write, and obviously thought went into it. Mega douchey, because someone else's spending, especially someone you don't know personally, should be none of your business.Ah! You are whining, that you've earned too much money, so you had to spend an insane amount of it on keyboards. Zero comiseration for that from my side :-) Obviously things in your life go way too well, so that you don't suffer from real problems. Don't get me wrong. I envy you for your "little" problems.
And I don't think that this hobby is mainly about spending money and piling up goods. For me it is about learning the technical knowhow for do-it-yourself keyboards, which aren't even necessarily expensive. Tinkering and getting things done normal people have no ability for. That is keyboard hacking for me. McGuyvering keyboards, so to say.
Unless you're joking, this is super douchey. You can always argue that there are worse problems, but this is something I know at least I struggle with as well. It's just being personally responsible, I'm sure the man has other problems in his life as well.
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 04 July 2015, 23:22:21
Ah! You are whining, that you've earned too much money, so you had to spend an insane amount of it on keyboards. Zero comiseration for that from my side :-) Obviously things in your life go way too well, so that you don't suffer from real problems. Don't get me wrong. I envy you for your "little" problems.
And I don't think that this hobby is mainly about spending money and piling up goods. For me it is about learning the technical knowhow for do-it-yourself keyboards, which aren't even necessarily expensive. Tinkering and getting things done normal people have no ability for. That is keyboard hacking for me. McGuyvering keyboards, so to say.
(http://i.imgur.com/uLBXPTd.jpg)
Post by: njbair on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:30:29
Post by: eternalmetal on Sun, 12 July 2015, 20:25:52
I bought my first mechanical keyboard a couple of months ago, and the only other thing I bought for it were a couple of keycap sets to replace the stock ABS caps (I now realize why everyone raves about thick PBT caps and cherry profile). Unlike audio equipment and monitors, even the best keyboards can be had for relatively cheap, so I can see why the pursuit of a better keyboard would be so enticing. I think the point im trying to make is that in the past I never had much issue with buying equipment and dealing with the idea of settling with what my research has decided on purchasing. After browsing HeadFi for a couple hours, almost anyone would want to get some LCD-3s or get some kickass DAC/amp combo that is getting hyped to death. But damn, this stuff is all so expensive that there is no way I can justify spending that much just to listen to music as a hobby, especially since my current setup sounds good enough. I think that im closer than ever to breaking my rule of utilitarian peripheral buying habits just to see what the rage with other mechanical keyboards is all about. I like my mx blues, but what about clears? What about topre? And then, what keycap profile?
But the more I think about it, this is by far the best keyboard ive had in my life, and I never used to even fuss over what keyboard I used to complete the task. The keyboard is a tool, and if the tool you have is good and still works, then why look to replace it? The only reason why I bought a mech was because my old keyboard was starting to be spotty (it was wireless). Though after realizing the depth of keyboard options, it makes wasteful spending in the pursuit of finding something better seem to be rather appealing.
The best thing that came out of me spending more money on a mech board was finally learning how to touch type. I used to be able to type ~70wpm with a technique that could be described as nothing less than the complete mastery of the hunt and peck. I could even do it without looking, and had convinced myself years ago that proper touch typing would be pointless to learn. But the sheer excitement involved with typing on my new keyboard made me want to type with less errors and more fluidity, and now im already typing ~60 wpm more comfortably and with less effort than ever. If just replacing my keyboard could make this much of a difference in enhancing my computing experience, I think it may be justifiable after all to buy another board or two to see if I like anything a bit better. Though sorry guys, there is no way ill ever justify buying 10+ different keyboards just to find an absolute grail, I dont think I care enough about the pursuit. Keycaps on the other hand, I could see myself buying a few more sets to get something aesthetically pleasing and of just the right profile.
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 12 July 2015, 20:33:35
Post by: Zustiur on Mon, 13 July 2015, 18:05:13
I'm not immune to FOMO though. That was what made me buy a $3000 electric violin, and a $900 Warhammer 40k imperial guard army on eBay. It also played a large part in buying my current residence! Fear the FOMO.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 13 July 2015, 23:36:35
But the more I think about it, this is by far the best keyboard ive had in my life, and I never used to even fuss over what keyboard I used to complete the task. The keyboard is a tool, and if the tool you have is good and still works, then why look to replace it?
I think the problem most of us face (myself included) is not that we replace our tools but that we hoard them. In my quest to try out as many vintage keyboards as possible, I have purchased way more than I've intended.
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 14 July 2015, 05:13:52
Post by: Jokrik on Wed, 15 July 2015, 08:37:54
My problem is artisan caps. They're rare so if you get into a sale or find a cap forsale you feel like you have to take part or forever lose your chance, then you have to search forever for one again.
The thing with keycaps especially the rare one, the liquidity is high in the market from what I see
so if one day you need money, somehow you can just sell at the price you get it and there will always/almost someone who will buy it
keyboards market is growing fast nowdays, especially in Asia
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 15 July 2015, 23:06:27
My problem is artisan caps. They're rare so if you get into a sale or find a cap forsale you feel like you have to take part or forever lose your chance, then you have to search forever for one again.
The thing with keycaps especially the rare one, the liquidity is high in the market from what I see
so if one day you need money, somehow you can just sell at the price you get it and there will always/almost someone who will buy it
keyboards market is growing fast nowdays, especially in Asia
With pretty much all group buys you can guarantee a positive ROI (with the exception of non-limited edition items)
That being said I don't think anyone likes people who buy limited edition items just to resell them (myself included).
I think its best to join as many group buys as your budget allows - especially on keycaps. If you don't like them you can easily offload them to someone else and make their day :)
Post by: Steven Tammen on Sun, 26 July 2015, 14:19:27
Last month I bought a really nice guitar, learned a couple chord progressions in a few weeks, then returned it within the grace period (thankfully). I wanted to play guitar because I thought it would impress other people and make me seem like a more well-rounded person. When I actually got one, and realized the motives behind the purchase, I couldn't bring myself to do it. This brought on a period of sober introspection wherein I've gotten rid of pretty much everything I owned that I did not use or could not come up with a reason to keep. I was hard on myself -- nothing is left except the things I absolutely use (e.g., bed, fan, desk), will use for reference (e.g., textbooks), or derive pleasure from (e.g., jump ropes, history books, classical music). It has been one of the best decisions of my life, and in the process, I've gotten organized, have a spreadsheet of everything I own, and have a greater capacity to empathize with others who live with less. Obviously this extreme isn't for everyone, but it is possible to break free and control yourself. It's not easy though.
I think the most important quality of frugality is not recognizing what you can't have, but recognizing what you already have. I live in America. I have parents that value my education and are paying for my undergraduate degree so that I don't come out laden with debt. I have been blessed with intellect and have scholarships easing the load on my parents. But it could be different things for different people. Family; relationships; a passion for humanity and the plight of others; spirituality; there are plenty of things to find contentment in that don't require the acquiring of material possessions or FOMO thinking. If you define yourself by your needs, hopes, aspirations, and goals within the realm of keyboards, what other people have is only of concern so much as it enables you to enjoy a shared connection.
My purpose for joining GH was because I enjoyed the community spirit and valued the advice that could be obtained therein. Like others before me on this thread, I'm not here to have this become a dominant part of who I am, I'm here to get enough knowledge of keyboards to make the purchase that will tide me over for the rest of my life, and give back to the community as much as I can. I'm a very research oriented individual, and GH (along with DT and r/MechanicalKeyboards) provide the means to find the best keyboard for me based off the help of others who are more knowledgeable in the area than I am. I code for coursework and write a lot on the side, so typing (and keyboards) have become important to me since they directly affect things I am passionate about. It could be that you are passionate about keyboards themselves, or modding and the maker movement. Whatever you do, keyboards need to have a purpose when you buy them. The purpose for me is utilitarian. The purpose for you might be hours of enjoyment from soldering PCBs and switches and comparing ABS and PBT keycap sets. But we can't pass judgement on each other's motives because only we know the necessity or pointlessness of our own purchases, and only we can change ourselves -- if we are honest enough to look inward and see why we really do things.
Just my 2c
Post by: njbair on Sun, 26 July 2015, 14:55:23
You know, on my introduction thread Rowdy posted a link to this one and I'm really glad he did (it's a fantastic idea to do this with new members). Reading through this has actually prompted me to edit my original post since I realized this isn't something to joke about (and my post was, in essence, in jest).
Last month I bought a really nice guitar, learned a couple chord progressions in a few weeks, then returned it within the grace period (thankfully). I wanted to play guitar because I thought it would impress other people and make me seem like a more well-rounded person. When I actually got one, and realized the motives behind the purchase, I couldn't bring myself to do it. This brought on a period of sober introspection wherein I've gotten rid of pretty much everything I owned that I did not use or could not come up with a reason to keep. I was hard on myself -- nothing is left except the things I absolutely use (e.g., bed, fan, desk), will use for reference (e.g., textbooks), or derive pleasure from (e.g., jump ropes, history books, classical music). It has been one of the best decisions of my life, and in the process, I've gotten organized, have a spreadsheet of everything I own, and have a greater capacity to empathize with others who live with less. Obviously this extreme isn't for everyone, but it is possible to break free and control yourself. It's not easy though.
I think the most important quality of frugality is not recognizing what you can't have, but recognizing what you already have. I live in America. I have parents that value my education and are paying for my undergraduate degree so that I don't come out laden with debt. I have been blessed with intellect and have scholarships easing the load on my parents. But it could be different things for different people. Family; relationships; a passion for humanity and the plight of others; spirituality; there are plenty of things to find contentment in that don't require the acquiring of material possessions or FOMO thinking. If you define yourself by your needs, hopes, aspirations, and goals within the realm of keyboards, what other people have is only of concern so much as it enables you to enjoy a shared connection.
My purpose for joining GH was because I enjoyed the community spirit and valued the advice that could be obtained therein. Like others before me on this thread, I'm not here to have this become a dominant part of who I am, I'm here to get enough knowledge of keyboards to make the purchase that will tide me over for the rest of my life, and give back to the community as much as I can. I'm a very research oriented individual, and GH (along with DT and r/MechanicalKeyboards) provide the means to find the best keyboard for me based off the help of others who are more knowledgeable in the area than I am. I code for coursework and write a lot on the side, so typing (and keyboards) have become important to me since they directly affect things I am passionate about. It could be that you are passionate about keyboards themselves, or modding and the maker movement. Whatever you do, keyboards need to have a purpose when you buy them. The purpose for me is utilitarian. The purpose for you might be hours of enjoyment from soldering PCBs and switches and comparing ABS and PBT keycap sets. But we can't pass judgement on each other's motives because only we know the necessity or pointlessness of our own purchases, and only we can change ourselves -- if we are honest enough to look inward and see why we really do things.
Just my 2c
Good for you. I hope GeekHack's legacy reflects that sense of community you mentioned. I personally don't visit the classifieds. I've taken part in several group buys, though, and my favorite part about them is the sense of teamwork and camaraderie (and sometimes hype) leading up to the end of a buy, particularly towards the end.
Establish self control early on. It is a valuable life asset. It's especially unique for a college student. You will likely experience another wave of materialism, though, some day when you've become established in a career and are enjoying your first period of relative success. Just know that it's okay to responsibly indulge your interests and enjoy "things."
Among the objects of contentment you listed was spirituality. As a person whose faith is very important to me, I've noticed sometimes people think that having nice things is antithetical to religious devotion. But as Solomon says, "Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one's labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward." This obviously needs to be understood in context of everything else the Bible teaches (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, to name a few). The point is, do your work, meet your obligations (family, etc.), and then enjoy life.
Post by: Steven Tammen on Sun, 26 July 2015, 19:47:11
Good for you. I hope GeekHack's legacy reflects that sense of community you mentioned. I personally don't visit the classifieds. I've taken part in several group buys, though, and my favorite part about them is the sense of teamwork and camaraderie (and sometimes hype) leading up to the end of a buy, particularly towards the end.
Establish self control early on. It is a valuable life asset. It's especially unique for a college student. You will likely experience another wave of materialism, though, some day when you've become established in a career and are enjoying your first period of relative success. Just know that it's okay to responsibly indulge your interests and enjoy "things."
Among the objects of contentment you listed was spirituality. As a person whose faith is very important to me, I've noticed sometimes people think that having nice things is antithetical to religious devotion. But as Solomon says, "Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one's labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward." This obviously needs to be understood in context of everything else the Bible teaches (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, to name a few). The point is, do your work, meet your obligations (family, etc.), and then enjoy life.
Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly wasn't trying to be all high and mighty about what I've done or anything, or trod on other people's conceptions of materialism. To me though, it is an all or nothing sort of thing. Either I'm defining myself through what I have, or I'm defining myself by my character and my use in the body of Christ. I couldn't find a balance that worked for me, but maybe its possible for people who aren't quite so philosophical about it.
I also wasn't trying to say that I never took pleasure in material things, (see: "jumpropes, history books, and classical music"), but simply that I tried to pare down my possessions to only the ones that I did actually use (which was actually a fairly small percentage on the whole). Ascetic monasticism has a rather bad track record, and the notion of getting rid of everything that brings you happiness brings to mind a good Lewis quote:
Quote
I now see that I spent most of my life in doing neither what I ought nor what I liked.
I don't really want to derail this thread with a discussion of a Christian philosophy of materialism, but it is important to keep in mind that Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes from the point of an unbeliever (i.e., everything is meaningless without God). Obviously, as Christians, we believe that there is more to life than our brief stint in the devil's world. You can certainly enjoy worldly things with the knowledge that everything comes by the hand of God (in fact we are called to such -- and gratitude), but this is not nearly "the point" of life. "The point" of life is to serve Jesus Christ and accomplish His will for us in our time on earth. Everything else is far second: not bad per se, but held at arms length as if venomous. We are not called to be lovers of the world.
I find that, especially with Ecclesiastes and other wisdom literature in the OT, you have to take the book as a whole, and context is more important than some other places in the Bible. For example, just a couple verses before we have:
Quote
Everyone comes naked from their mother’s womb,
and as everyone comes, so they depart.
They take nothing from their toil
that they can carry in their hands.
Ecclesiastes 5:15
and the sentiment is echoed elsewhere throughout the book:
Quote
I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?" So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
Ecclesiastes 3:18-22
and even in the NT as well:
Quote
Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die.
1st Corinthians 15:32b
Work, hobbies, and material pursuits help numb us to the fact that death is an inevitability. Christians too need to work and eat (legitimate sources of secular pleasure and satisfaction); Christians are not enjoined from family relationships, or indeed from many potentially non-sinful activities in which the world engages for relaxation and entertainment (such as keyboard collecting); but Christians do need to recognize the fleeting and inconsequential nature of any and all activities not directly related to their primary relationship, their membership in the family of God the Father through faith in His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Even for those on this forum who don't share our belief, the prospect of death is often a powerful force for change and self-control. Think soberly about what it is you want to accomplish in life, and what is truly important, because time is limited.
Post by: kurplop on Sun, 26 July 2015, 23:13:03
One thing that helps me unravel Ecclesiastes is to recognize the inclusio within it. Imagine the first 12 verses and the last 6 written by a host introducing a wise man who has observed life primarily "under the sun". The content between the intro and close is the best wisdom that the wise man could conclude from those observations. The end is a summation given by the host, completing what the wise man's understanding was lacking.
Not only does this explanation work literally but also clears up some inconsistent thoughts within the text.
As to the subject of this thread, we guys are especially vulnerable to being monomaniacal about things. It is often good. To be driven to excel in our careers, to accumulate for setting up a home and later for retirement, to passionately pursue those things which make us better people and an asset to our communities, these are all good if we can keep them in balance. I've been around 61 years and still struggle to keep things in proper moderation. Life seems to be a series of corrections to keep us on track.
In my own experience, although I have had my share of obsessions, I usually get through them with something to show from them. It might be a new skill, new friendships, greater understanding or sometimes just good memories. I have found that frequently when my interest begins to wane I will throw money at it to try to revive it. It is good to recognize this to keep from plunging to far into the red.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 27 July 2015, 14:31:30
I appreciate the context and structure of the book, but I don't think you should dismiss Solomon's findings; he's still the wisest man that ever lived. And my point was that it's okay--and even necessary--to enjoy hobbies and recreation (such as keyboards) in moderation, balance, and proportion to life's other obligations.
Post by: kurplop on Mon, 27 July 2015, 14:47:04
Post by: Steven Tammen on Mon, 27 July 2015, 15:21:36
I appreciate the context and structure of the book, but I don't think you should dismiss Solomon's findings; he's still the wisest man that ever lived. And my point was that it's okay--and even necessary--to enjoy hobbies and recreation (such as keyboards) in moderation, balance, and proportion to life's other obligations.I really don't think we're expressing different ideas, we're just using different words and emphasizing slightly different aspects of Solomon's message. Hobbies, recreation, and relaxation are God ordained and a necessary part of a believer's life. Moderation, like you said, is the important part. I think generally I tend to come down a bit harder than I probably should sometimes on such things because the Church visible in our day tends to emphasize them disproportionately and ignore the fearing God part of Solomon's message. Or, to put it more bluntly, I think people could do with a bit more sobriety and a bit less hedonism (on the whole). It's probably better in the overall scheme of things to pursue God a bit "too zealously" than not enough :).
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 27 July 2015, 15:28:12
I downsized my whole collection and am selling all my extra stuff, and w/ the low end / medium customs I have, I sold enough of them to afford a high-end board. Once everything finishes selling, I will only have 2 boards and a few key sets.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 27 July 2015, 15:52:19
My update : D
I downsized my whole collection and am selling all my extra stuff, and w/ the low end / medium customs I have, I sold enough of them to afford a high-end board. Once everything finishes selling, I will only have 2 boards and a few key sets.
Same here. I'm selling everything except a select few that I really like. The rest are just taking up space.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 27 July 2015, 22:03:59
My update : D
I downsized my whole collection and am selling all my extra stuff, and w/ the low end / medium customs I have, I sold enough of them to afford a high-end board. Once everything finishes selling, I will only have 2 boards and a few key sets.
...and a stack of Leeku PCB's.
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 27 July 2015, 22:22:26
For the store, not me ;DMy update : D
I downsized my whole collection and am selling all my extra stuff, and w/ the low end / medium customs I have, I sold enough of them to afford a high-end board. Once everything finishes selling, I will only have 2 boards and a few key sets.
...and a stack of Leeku PCB's.
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 25 August 2015, 16:22:42
Post by: ANightOnCloudNine on Mon, 28 September 2015, 22:44:50
Post by: richfiles on Tue, 29 September 2015, 03:59:12
Spending about $240 on the Danger Zone keycap set, with a bunch of the extra key packs. I'm hoping we see a few more price breaks on the secondary sets as the next week goes by. With the extra key packs, I see no need to worry about future expansion, as I'll have a baggie of keys in a drawer to serve me if I decide "Oh! I need macros!".
Spent about $30 on Gateron MX Blues, and $20 on a Teensy.
Spent around $75 on a custom plate.
I will make all the remainder of the case myself, out of material on hand. I don't plan to do more than spend a couple bucks on screws.
I'll need one more teensy (Another $20) and a bluetooth module ($ ???) for my second keyboard project, a bluetooth Apple //c keyboard with Alps SKCM Ambers. I have had the keyboard in my parts pile for a decade or more. Again, I'll make a case, and at worst, end up buying a battery pack and some minor electronics. I want to keep that build lower cost, and witht he keyboard already fully assembled... I pretty much AM keeping it on the cheap!
After that, I really don't see a need to spend more. I've been fortunate enough to realize that I don't need a half dozen keyboards for my computer. At best, if I get a computer for my workshop in a few years from now, I'll probably do another "75% + 1" keyboard for it. Just for the sakes of variety, I'll decide on a new keycap set for it, and get the one set. Years from now, most likely.
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 29 September 2015, 05:23:42
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 29 September 2015, 07:57:21
So far my strategy of buying the most expensive keyboard I could find and then nothing else is going nicely. Don't see myself ever buying another keyboard, just working through some restorarion and modding projects for the price of materials. Quality over quantity has been my modus operandi and I think that's been helpful.
The 356 Mini, right? O.o
And what about all those other keyboards in your sig? ;) :P
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 29 September 2015, 09:17:22
So far my strategy of buying the most expensive keyboard I could find and then nothing else is going nicely. Don't see myself ever buying another keyboard, just working through some restorarion and modding projects for the price of materials. Quality over quantity has been my modus operandi and I think that's been helpful.
The 356 Mini, right? O.o
And what about all those other keyboards in your sig? ;) :P
Denial is the currency of geekhack :p
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 29 September 2015, 18:34:02
So far my strategy of buying the most expensive keyboard I could find and then nothing else is going nicely. Don't see myself ever buying another keyboard, just working through some restorarion and modding projects for the price of materials. Quality over quantity has been my modus operandi and I think that's been helpful.
The 356 Mini, right? O.o
And what about all those other keyboards in your sig? ;) :P
I don't know what you're talking about :P
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 30 September 2015, 09:52:59
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 16 October 2015, 05:56:03
Post by: Belfong on Mon, 19 October 2015, 02:03:15
I'm going to open up a bit and admit that I've got a bit of a problem when it comes to spending on keyboards (not beyond my means though, just more than what should be spent).I think this is a pretty common problem among Geekhack here, so nothing to fear, I guess.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 20 October 2015, 15:52:47
Post by: mobbo on Thu, 22 October 2015, 08:12:30
I'm going to open up a bit and admit that I've got a bit of a problem when it comes to spending on keyboards (not beyond my means though, just more than what should be spent).I think this is a pretty common problem among Geekhack here, so nothing to fear, I guess.
This is my problem. I'm hoping it will slow down after having some keyboards and caps to work with (since I'm new to the scene I have literally nothing but a Filco right now) but I'm slowly being sucked into the world of artisans. But I mean I haven't been this excited about purchases - or anything material since I splurged on music equipment for my studio (mic/guitar/PA/amp), so I think that's a good sign. I don't often get excited about buying things, so I rarely do. But something about this hobby has got me going :-X
Post by: E3E on Sat, 31 October 2015, 08:10:31
My form of damage control is realizing what I want and what I do not want. There was a time early in when I had the FOMO pretty bad, where I wanted a Mira just because of what it represented despite disliking TKL boards and knowing they weren't my type, where I wanted to buy every key cap set coming out. I remember being so upset I missed out on hwood's big Gateron switch buy, and now look, they are readily available. FOMO is the most dangerous aspect of this hobby. It preys upon the impulsive nature of one's personality. Even if you think you have good self-control, it is incredibly easy to get sucked into this vortex of plastic, steel, and aluminum, just wanting to buy all that you can. This is coming from someone who's typically very good with spending and who does not often buy things. This past year, since last March, I've spent over $1.5k on things that are completely irrelevant to anything but this hobby. Keyboards. If you have an ounce of a collector's mentality, a passion for rare or hard to find things, an ounce of materialism, this hobby will find it and clamp down on it until you figure out how to break away. Or maybe you just go on feeding it; maybe you can afford to do such things.
After a while, I realized that it was getting out of hand. I saw myself getting into group buys that weren't even relevant to what I cared for in a keyboard. I saw myself seeing something that seemed exotic or unique, and immediately I would plan on how to get it, how I'd manage my cash to afford it. After a while, I realized it was enough.
I ultimately decided that my favorite form factor and layout is 75%, and that is all I'll go for, particularly only Octagon revisions, and nothing else. I started to piece together what I wanted in this hobby, what I needed to fulfill my curiosities and what I truly desired out of all this. I tried to shake off wanting to be show off and doing this for vanity and tried to look more into practicality and personal expression. Reddit contributed to the vain aspect as well, since posting and commenting on /r/MK was really my first experience with social media. I usually stray away from it for various reasons, but I got bit by seeing everyone else. All that karma bullsh-t, everyone trying to be flashy or clever or witty just to be seen. I realized all that was meaningless in the end.
That allows me to sidestep a lot of buys without regret since I've rationalized the situation. Trying to just go for what I truly thought I'd like while staying somewhat reasonable. I've also realized that I enjoy Alps far more than Cherry MX (which is still nice, but uninteresting to me in comparison), which creates a huge clearing for me, away from the way more prevalent and expensive side of the hobby. The only vintages I am concerned with are Alps boards, so that cuts away the uber expensive Cherry vintage boards, and the (admittedly cool) Model F & M boards.
The only layout that is not optimal for me that I've been lax about has been 60%, but the Infinity was so I could have an Alps "custom," and the Duck Eagle build, which is my endgame 60% to stave things off until I get things straightened up again, represents a lot of qualities I want in my ideal portable keyboard, one that will also save me from finding reasons to buy/build more keyboards. The planned hotswapping is very important not just for the sake of being a neat idea, but to combat the compulsion to keep buying boards just because I have a surplus in switches. Ultimately, I'd say the 75% is my ideal layout for a daily driver while 60% is great for portability despite having a slight compromise in functionality.
The only things I can see pulling me toward more spending are the Octagon v2, and Alps key cap group buys.
I think I've at least managed to narrow down things a bit. I still want to grab Alps switch varieties of every type for my Eagle so that I can swap things out when I get bored of one flavor or another.
The main thing is that I do have a goal and have set limits. I'm just glad I'm not drooling over every new IC, GB, or classified that comes up anymore. I've realized personal goals are more important than going for something rare or flashy. Going for things that are borne from personal creative ideas and not just wanting to be a bigshot with rare boards definitely helps. It's easy to get lost in the vanity and materialism of this hobby.
I'm still trying to learn to temper myself and let certain things go, budgeting myself out. For example, if a board I really would like comes up for sale, but isn't so exceedingly uncommon that it possibly won't come up again, then I'll pass on it, knowing that I'll have another chance to get it some other time. Yeah, I'll be feeling the burn to my obsessive side for not grabbing it, but I'll have relief in knowing that I'm also helping to cut back on those obsessive compulsive tendencies.
I think the worst moments I've ever had in this hobby were literally pacing back and forth considering what I should buy, and literally mulling over it for hours on end to convince myself it was fine. I was dealing with a **** ton of cognitive dissonance and that was really horrible. It's true that this hobby can pull out tendencies that are dangerously close to substance abuse.
Post by: GenKaan on Mon, 02 November 2015, 04:10:39
When I stopped working and focused more on learning, doing stuff for me and started looking/thinking about what I want to do for the rest of my life. This more or less gone away, now I try to live of my savings for as long as it takes. Avoiding any expense that isnt vital or 100% necessary
Now I have three keyboards, a few set of caps and a artisan collection that I need to shrink a bit. Not looking to buy anything really until I get a job, maybe then I finally get my GON or 22KBD :)
Post by: Belfong on Mon, 02 November 2015, 05:04:43
Post by: taylordcraig on Sun, 06 December 2015, 20:29:19
I'm going to open up a bit and admit that I've got a bit of a problem when it comes to spending on keyboards (not beyond my means though, just more than what should be spent).I think this is a pretty common problem among Geekhack here, so nothing to fear, I guess.
I don't think of it as a problem. If you're living within your means and enjoying the things you buy, then your problem is really doubting yourself. If your keyboards aren't making you happy and you think more money might do that, make the obvious choice.
edit: sorry for necro
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 22 December 2015, 15:12:21
Firstly, thanks intelli78 for being candid. I personally believe most people are smart enough to realize when they are overspending, however it is human nature to either:
a) convince ourselves that it's not so bad, everything will be alright at the end of the day (denial)
b) push it to the back of our minds (thought suppression)
It takes stones to face this issue head-on internally, let alone post about it in public, so props to you.
Mechs are a new hobby to me (~4 months at the date of this entry), and I guess I'm lucky to be coming from two other hobbies that are larger moneypits than this. All the same, I've somehow managed to acquire over 10 keyboards (nothing fancy, just plain ol' mass-market stuff) during this brief period and I can see how my finances will spiral out of control if I continue purchasing at this rate.
My strategy for tightening the purse strings is different from what I've read over the last few pages. Browsing through geekhack, the impression I get is that Korean Customs and Artisan Keycaps are the two biggest money sinks in the world of mechanical keyboards (correct me if I'm wrong). Everyone seems to end up in that direction. Well, thankfully neither of them appeal to me at all. I come from a country where people worship Korean culture: dumb Kpop songs pollute the airwaves, everybody seems to be addicted to Korean TV dramas or that Running Man rubbish, bulgogi restaurants are sprouting up exponentially... Even the plastic surgery clinics have taken on a Korean twist! This whole Korean craze has really gotten on my nerves to the point where I've made a vow to not buy anything Korean unless I really have no choice. Silly as this sounds, it has been working for me so far. I don't get tempted by KMAC or OTD or what-else-have-you. In fact, I'm perfectly happy with my mass-market boards, of which I have enough.
As for Artisan Keycaps... I have to admit there are some nice ones floating about, especially that Darth Vader one on Massdrop a few hours ago. But my OCD acts up when my keycaps aren't in the same profile, and Artisans definitely stick out like a sore thumb (a good thing for those who like them). So that's a no-go for me either.
In conclusion, I'd like to think it's the right time for me to be slowing down after my initial spree & foray into the world of mechs. But what do I know, I'm still a noob. Something unexpected might pop up for sale tomorrow, something I don't realize I like until the pics seduce me (best example so far would be Matt3o's whitefox on MD). And therein lies the danger of mechanical keyboard collecting.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 31 December 2015, 10:51:29
The rest will be saved for my current car, a prospective car towards the end of 2016, and maybe another Kustom if I can get one for a reasonable price. I can't give in to Classifieds and Group Buys like I have been doing this year. I've managed to steer clear of Massdrop largely, other than GMK RGBYK, but I don't plan to buy much else on there, even if I would like to get in on the GMK SNES buy.
Post by: ideus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 13:37:29
I may get another GMK set if something nice comes out in 2016; but, I have un-hacked my wallet and I even used some of the funds I got to start a small business with friends, awesome. I just have left some small boxes with some extra key caps, springs, some switches and spare stabilizers. No more boxes with unused keyboards.
Post by: jerue on Thu, 31 December 2015, 21:28:22
(http://i.imgur.com/L5KKlZq.gif)
1 Classified objective the whole year. Let's see if I can do that :))
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 31 December 2015, 22:17:25
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 31 December 2015, 22:23:40
Post by: ideus on Fri, 01 January 2016, 15:15:22
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 03 January 2016, 10:44:24
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 03 January 2016, 23:02:31
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 11 April 2016, 12:17:29
Thread is obsolete - expired last year.
It never expires for those with the problem. Like me. So far I've done computers (very expensive), bags, computer games, board games, rpg games, tech gadgets, kickstarters, and I'm sure more. Now it's keyboards. As we are keyboard enthusiasts, I think we should also continually support each other in this. Sometimes just talking to someone with the same problems helps, I've found.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 11 April 2016, 12:59:35
Thread is obsolete - expired last year.
It never expires for those with the problem. Like me. So far I've done computers (very expensive), bags, computer games, board games, rpg games, tech gadgets, kickstarters, and I'm sure more. Now it's keyboards. As we are keyboard enthusiasts, I think we should also continually support each other in this. Sometimes just talking to someone with the same problems helps, I've found.
Exactly. I'm getting into DSLR photography two fists deep. It's gonna hurt on the wallet. Again. Sigh. I HAVE TO MANY hobbies.
At least I can try to earn some on the side by making photos for others. But still.
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 12 April 2016, 05:39:42
When did I say that?
I point people towards this thread all the time!
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 12 April 2016, 09:36:44
Did I say that?
When did I say that?
I point people towards this thread all the time!
Thread is obsolete - expired last year.
Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning. But thread is obsolete means... thread is obsolete?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 12 April 2016, 12:46:53
Did I say that?
When did I say that?
I point people towards this thread all the time!Thread is obsolete - expired last year.
Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning. But thread is obsolete means... thread is obsolete?
"Unhacking the wallet in 2015"
It is no longer 2015, therefore thread is 'expired' ;)
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:23:22
Did I say that?
When did I say that?
I point people towards this thread all the time!Thread is obsolete - expired last year.
Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning. But thread is obsolete means... thread is obsolete?
"Unhacking the wallet in 2015"
It is no longer 2015, therefore thread is 'expired' ;)
Title should be changed to make it "active" again.
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:23:56
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:33:50
Did I say that?
When did I say that?
I point people towards this thread all the time!Thread is obsolete - expired last year.
Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning. But thread is obsolete means... thread is obsolete?
"Unhacking the wallet in 2015"
It is no longer 2015, therefore thread is 'expired' ;)
I saw the quote, but I don't recall typing that.
I also don't think I would have noticed the thread title and remarked obsolescence due to year differences.
Or perhaps I did, in a rare moment of insight and forgetfulness?
Post by: JohnLuker on Mon, 25 April 2016, 11:00:04
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 25 April 2016, 11:03:37
Hi, I'm John and I'm a recovering gadget-a-holic. I'm much better since the self-imposed moratorium on browsing after drinking.
:)) Welcome John! I wish you luck in avoiding the wallethack.
Post by: JohnLuker on Tue, 26 April 2016, 12:30:36
Hi, I'm John and I'm a recovering gadget-a-holic. I'm much better since the self-imposed moratorium on browsing after drinking.
:)) Welcome John! I wish you luck in avoiding the wallethack.
I've been a life-long addict (in one form or another). This is just one of the latest iterations. Razors (straight/other), pens, pencils, flashlights, cameras, knifes, edc stuff, VW beetles, ex-wives...
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Thu, 25 August 2016, 14:05:19
Post by: mobbo on Thu, 25 August 2016, 14:55:32
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 25 August 2016, 16:52:08
I have decided in 2016 to get my finances in order once and for all. I only have a few things I would like to spend money on in this hobby now, those being orange artisans, my customs in the mail, and maybe GMK Classic Beige if we can ever get it going again.
The rest will be saved for my current car, a prospective car towards the end of 2016, and maybe another Kustom if I can get one for a reasonable price. I can't give in to Classifieds and Group Buys like I have been doing this year. I've managed to steer clear of Massdrop largely, other than GMK RGBYK, but I don't plan to buy much else on there, even if I would like to get in on the GMK SNES buy.
LOL THIS WENT WELL.
Just bought another custom. And I bought GMK SKIDATA.
I'm definitely not getting another car at the end of this year, but I did manage to pay for a holiday :)
with a loan lmao
Post by: yowaffle on Thu, 25 August 2016, 21:10:20
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 25 August 2016, 22:17:09
Post by: yowaffle on Fri, 26 August 2016, 05:22:52
Granite is going to be on PMK soon as a regular item, so we should have that set coming out our ears.
Thanks for the heads up!
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 26 August 2016, 05:46:50
Granite is going to be on PMK soon as a regular item, so we should have that set coming out our ears.
PBT or ABS?
Post by: xondat on Fri, 26 August 2016, 06:27:44
I'm at the point where I know I have too much money sank into them, but for the sake of the collection I'm not going to sell any because that would mean all my work would've been for nothing. I don't even have an end goal, maybe collecting them all? But there are 26 (known), and I can probably max out around 20 or so. But getting 20 will leave the collection feeling incomplete, so whilst I have probably over $1700 sunk into the collection, it'll still feel like I'm not done, essentially leaving me short of too much money.
To me, at least, artisans usually carry a story behind how I got them, therefore leaving me feeling bad/guilty if I think about selling them... to probably fund Reaper Classics, or just because I need the money. I have probably have $2k into just artisans. It's so silly, but I know that none are leaving me soon.
I do wonder when I'll get bored of them and just sell them all. In the current state, I use KK mods and some blank caps on my daily HHKBT. The rest of them just sit in some plastic containers on my desk. I haven't used any on a daily MX board, mainly because I haven't owned an MX board since February, but still, I doubt I would use them. All of them would probably be sold easily within an hour, but I know they'll be too hard and too expensive to reacquire down the line which is why they just sit there, being unused.
Fortunately I'm in a position where I can keep them (and probably carry on spending...), but when it comes around to actually needing money, I have no idea what I'll be doing with everything.
/ramble over
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 26 August 2016, 09:43:41
Granite is going to be on PMK soon as a regular item, so we should have that set coming out our ears.
PBT or ABS?
It's listed on PMK right now. I don't know offhand.
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 06 September 2016, 04:01:30
I'm at the point where I know I have too much money sank into them, but for the sake of the collection I'm not going to sell any because that would mean all my work would've been for nothing.I am past this stage and now all I am doing is just buying when the maker has sales and if I win them, I'll be happy, if not, I will just enjoy the photos. I am content with my collection and use the keys daily and changing them as often as I like. I have enough to cycle around. But yeah, I have stopped looking at Classifieds and scorned at eBays. You should be glad you are only focusing on one design instead of multiple. I am limiting my choices to BBv2, Clacks and hopefully Ewoks.
Post by: mobbo on Thu, 08 September 2016, 12:59:20
I'm at the point where I know I have too much money sank into them, but for the sake of the collection I'm not going to sell any because that would mean all my work would've been for nothing.I am past this stage and now all I am doing is just buying when the maker has sales and if I win them, I'll be happy, if not, I will just enjoy the photos. I am content with my collection and use the keys daily and changing them as often as I like. I have enough to cycle around. But yeah, I have stopped looking at Classifieds and scorned at eBays. You should be glad you are only focusing on one design instead of multiple. I am limiting my choices to BBv2, Clacks and hopefully Ewoks.
+1
although all the recent clack hype has got my trigger finger itchy whenever I seem the pop up on ebay. I know people usually trade clack for clack so without any it's hard to acquire them without turning to the aftermarket. bit of a catch 22. it does not seem to be nearly as bad for me with other artisans.
Post by: ideus on Thu, 08 September 2016, 15:43:36
Granite is going to be on PMK soon as a regular item, so we should have that set coming out our ears.
PBT or ABS?
It reads sublimated, it should be PBT.
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 17 September 2016, 00:42:44
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 20 September 2016, 18:17:50
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 20 September 2016, 18:47:52
Post by: E3E on Tue, 20 September 2016, 18:53:54
I need to get away from keyboards, seriously. :P
Post by: xondat on Tue, 20 September 2016, 20:28:38
Just bought a Realforce 10AE 104UB-KB45S XF140S. Figured I might as well put my chips in and really give Topre a shot.What a great product name!
I need to get away from keyboards, seriously. :P
You haven't tried topre before? Or just not seriously?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 21 September 2016, 07:06:23
I've tried it half-heartedly before with a Realforce 104UW with variable weighting.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 11:04:29
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 October 2016, 17:48:08
At least I had a nice holiday and bought a lightsaver and GMK Hydro :))
Time to sort out a payment plan with the bank I guess.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 17 October 2016, 17:56:45
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 17 October 2016, 19:53:55
I think I slightly unhacked my wallet by selling $2500 of artisans... Getting there.
The temptation is real, I have too many to use..
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 20:03:21
Post by: pinkizhip on Mon, 17 October 2016, 20:40:35
I think I slightly unhacked my wallet by selling $2500 of artisans... Getting there.
:eek:
Post by: E3E on Tue, 18 October 2016, 01:48:49
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 18 October 2016, 10:23:08
Post by: davkol on Tue, 18 October 2016, 11:23:03
There's no getting away from this hobby unless you literally just pull back from the community or somehow resist the temptation of every hot new thing coming out every other week or showing up on the classifieds.There are very few new things coming out, though, and even fewer provide any benefits.
I'm certainly fascinated by, say, XMIT's attempt to bring Hall-effect switches back, but I won't buy the keyboard, because it can't improve my life in any way, other than feeling good about owning a Hall-effect keyboard; in the end, it's yet another keyboard with linear switches and a generic layout.
Post by: PollandAkuma on Thu, 20 October 2016, 12:17:05
and how many years will i take to do this lol
Post by: fublamchu on Sat, 22 October 2016, 17:13:08
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 05 November 2016, 09:35:49
With my recent holiday and various stupid spontaneous purchases, I'm up to about £8000 of debt across a loan and a credit card, which has basically ruined any chance of me going on a holiday or doing anything cool for the next 2 years at least. I haven't missed out on mortgage payments or anything but my bank account is looking incredibly sick the last few months.
Stop it before it's too late.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 29 January 2017, 13:50:29
But recently I doubled down on trying to leave most advertisement out of my head. It makes me very anxious and tense. Everywhere you look. Literally EVERYWHERE you are confronted with purchases you MIGHT MAKE for stuff that you DON'T NEED but somehow DO WANT. It struck me: why don't I just read a good book instead? Leave off the TV, no commercials. Try to avoid facebook and even mail (I use gmail, with ads in it of course). Even try avoid googling up to a certain extent.
Don't get me wrong, I love GH. But sites like GH and other tech sites like anandtech, toms hardware, oc, hardforum, macrumors, linus tech tips. They all have articles on new tech that is coming out or reviews on tech that is just out.
All these articles and videos are - in my opinion - a form of very very intrusive marketing. Because you think "I'm just updating my tech knowledge. Just learning about new developments." But all these articles are also marketing at the same time: coz they cover new products that you COULD buy.
I noticed that I am very susceptible to these articles and it makes me very tense... like it reminds me of how much farther, materialistically, I would like to take my hobby: buy this new kitchen knife, check out this sick f/1.0 lens, check out HHKB Type-S, check out this LG ultrawide monitor it's better, check out O-LED TV. And the thing is, I am very curious about tech. And I like to try many things, so that amounts to buying stuff.
But this "tech site knowledge" really is advertisement hidden in plain sight, at least for me.
Post by: VGVisionary on Mon, 20 March 2017, 18:10:23
The reason why I'm not feeling too bothered is the feeling that I should've been on this forum years ago. In other words, I'm spending money on an investment long overdue: quality keyboards with some style. For someone working with videogames for over a decade, I feel very late to the mechanical keyboard party.
Let's see where this goes Wallethack will take me eh :D?
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 21 March 2017, 03:51:40
Definitely food for thought. Bough my Corsaird K70 Vengeance back in september, my very first mechanical keyboard. Thought very long and hard for years about getting a vintage IBM Model M and just purchased a 1986 one that's 2 months older than myself. Got another one from 1992 right away that's arriving today while the 1986 one is in the US and a friend is bringing it over when she's coming over to the Netherlands. Now I'm finding myself spending on various drops on Massdrop to get cool switches and caps.So long as you don't go into artisan and is just buying keyboards, I think you are fine. I feel sorry for your wallet IF you start being curious about artisan :eek: :p
The reason why I'm not feeling too bothered is the feeling that I should've been on this forum years ago. In other words, I'm spending money on an investment long overdue: quality keyboards with some style. For someone working with videogames for over a decade, I feel very late to the mechanical keyboard party.
Let's see where this goes Wallethack will take me eh :D?
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 27 March 2017, 05:01:53
Definitely food for thought. Bough my Corsaird K70 Vengeance back in september, my very first mechanical keyboard. Thought very long and hard for years about getting a vintage IBM Model M and just purchased a 1986 one that's 2 months older than myself. Got another one from 1992 right away that's arriving today while the 1986 one is in the US and a friend is bringing it over when she's coming over to the Netherlands. Now I'm finding myself spending on various drops on Massdrop to get cool switches and caps.So long as you don't go into artisan and is just buying keyboards, I think you are fine. I feel sorry for your wallet IF you start being curious about artisan :eek: :p
The reason why I'm not feeling too bothered is the feeling that I should've been on this forum years ago. In other words, I'm spending money on an investment long overdue: quality keyboards with some style. For someone working with videogames for over a decade, I feel very late to the mechanical keyboard party.
Let's see where this goes Wallethack will take me eh :D?
best to stick to one artisan if you get into that side of things as well
Post by: futurecrime on Fri, 30 June 2017, 09:05:52
My spending has spun out of control over the last six months. I already have credit card debt, student loans remaining (I'm 38 ffs) and overdrafts on two bank accounts. It's thousands but it's not like oh **** bankruptcy here I come. But I certainly don't feel 'secure'. I also have a partner who earns hardly anything and a 3yo daughter, so I'm not just responsible for me. This year I've earned a fair bit more than usual (than ever, actually) and really should have been using this opportunity to clear that debt, because I'm freelance and there's no guarantee this work is gonna continue. But I'm crap with money. Always have been. So instead I built a high end PC and I've poured money into keyboards. It may be crass but I'm gonna list what I've bought to illustrate the level of spending I'm talking about and give some perspective.
More
Leopold FC660m
Matrix Abel
Planck on Massdrop
AMJ40 w/ alu case
Lightsaver
TX1800v2
Filco TKL
LZ-St
F77 from Ellipse
Fully modded HHKB
DSA Granite
GMK 9009 (all kits aftermarket)
DEVLIN SKIDATA
GMK YURI
GMK Oblivion
GMK Miami Nights
GMK Solarised Dark
Aerokeys pink topre mods
Extra stuff like a Hakko soldering iron, some Artisans, packs of Zealios, Phantom PCB, etc...
Matrix Abel
Planck on Massdrop
AMJ40 w/ alu case
Lightsaver
TX1800v2
Filco TKL
LZ-St
F77 from Ellipse
Fully modded HHKB
DSA Granite
GMK 9009 (all kits aftermarket)
DEVLIN SKIDATA
GMK YURI
GMK Oblivion
GMK Miami Nights
GMK Solarised Dark
Aerokeys pink topre mods
Extra stuff like a Hakko soldering iron, some Artisans, packs of Zealios, Phantom PCB, etc...
90% of that stuff is in the last two months. Because I know myself and I knew I'd end up there eventually, I decided to go straight for the customs after I got the Leopold, but I'm not rationalising that I've saved money by doing that. Maybe I'm attempting to speed through the whole process of trying everything and finding the thing I like so I can move on. But endgame is a myth, as everyone knows. I have rationalised that I'll find 2 or 3 boards that I love and sell off the rest, and get maybe 80% of the cost back, but I'm not great at getting rid of nice stuff, so we'll see. I am at least trying to sell the Leopold and Filco right now, and getting rid of the artisans.
I do a lot of mental acrobatics to justify purchases, and there's certainly personal issues with my work, family and just life in general which affect my reckless spending. I've given up a lot of stuff in the last couple of years and I think somehow keyboards have come in and filled some of the hole left behind. I've gone with it because nothing has really grabbed my attention so much in a long time and it's been nice just following it without analysing too much. I've learned a lot, for sure, which is positive. Basic soldering, electronics, coding, touch typing... all completely new to me, and very interesting and fun to learn. And my god every single time I sit down at my desk and put my fingers on the HHKB or the GMK caps on the Zealios it feels good. It feels so good. But the spending... it's too much. My partner doesn't know how much this stuff costs (she thought the Abel probably came to about £100, and I didn't correct her), and when the new boards on order start showing up a conversation about all of it is inevitable. Will I lie about it all, or 'fess up and tell her I've spent thousands on this stuff? I don't know but I feel the pressure and stress of that near-future horror everyday. I wonder if it's all part of a mid-life crisis cranking into gear.
Hopefully by writing all this out here it will motivate me to change. I have plenty of stuff to be getting on with now, boards and caps on order, so I hope I can chill on the spending. I've resisted a couple of boards I've really liked, and felt the relief when the GB period has ended, which is some small victory for common sense.
It's quite obvious there's a fairly common pattern in this hobby, and this forum, so in an attempt to expedite my journey through the stages, I'm shifting my attention from classifieds and group buys to off topic. After reading a lot of old threads it's evident the community is pretty ****ing great here and if you can resist the hype and FOMO it seems like a fine way to hang out online.
tl;dr - Same ****, different guy.
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 30 June 2017, 09:23:47
You are not alone in all these and so hope we can encourage each other.
Post by: need on Fri, 30 June 2017, 10:51:08
Post by: hapakey on Fri, 30 June 2017, 11:57:32
Quote
I haven't been doing anything with keebs lately.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 01 July 2017, 19:16:36
I've resisted a couple of boards I've really liked, and felt the relief when the GB period has ended, which is some small victory for common sense.
This right here, I've been doing a lot of this lately, and learned one thing: FOMO is the driving force behind almost all of the over-indulging I've done. But looking back at this year and forward to the rest of it, there is *no* shortage of awesome stuff coming down the pipe, so you're never really "missing out." It's quite easy later to get 90% of the stuff out there if you trade up or have some money to throw at it if it turns out you really must have it. And I think developing that perspective helps in evaluating whether you really need something, or just feel like you want it because -- oh, shiny new thing!
Post by: ideus on Sat, 01 July 2017, 19:19:14
Post by: OneNightFriend on Sun, 02 July 2017, 09:49:36
I have only joined in a couple of GB for key caps that I really like, far from the group hyping train. The key is not to let the hype building thing to catch you in.Yeah I'm only in for solarized dark and that's because I really loved the set. I've been trying to be smarter about which artisan sales I enter too and not just go hog wild. It's been hard, but having a goal in mind helps too.
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 03 October 2017, 20:15:40
Taking a huge step back... a complete break from keyboards and other money-hungry hobbies. Quitting cold-turkey. I found scaling back to not be effective. It helped some but I never really felt like I had things under control.
Only stopping completely and staying stopped for 1 year+ truly fixed me.
This is a big reason I stopped posting on GH. It wasn't possible to develop new habits while continuing to participate in keyboard discussions and be exposed to all the new products.
Interesting things to note. At the end of it all, after going through 100+ keyboards, the couple I kept were the ones I started out with. If you're just now starting to go down the rabbit hole, be careful. Don't chase perfection...it absolutely doesn't exist. With every new keyboard, the novelty wears off sooner. The getting is never as good as the wanting. And you can end up making yourself pretty unhappy with this cycle.
It's all about habits, I think. You need to rewire your brain by performing the correct action over and over until it's the default.
I think the worst moments I've ever had in this hobby were literally pacing back and forth considering what I should buy, and literally mulling over it for hours on end to convince myself it was fine. I was dealing with a **** ton of cognitive dissonance and that was really horrible. It's true that this hobby can pull out tendencies that are dangerously close to substance abuse.
Nailed it..
Post by: ideus on Tue, 03 October 2017, 22:10:41
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 03 October 2017, 22:53:42
2.5 years later, I can conclusively say my wallet is unhacked. What finally worked?
Taking a huge step back... a complete break from keyboards and other money-hungry hobbies. Quitting cold-turkey. I found scaling back to not be effective. It helped some but I never really felt like I had things under control.
Only stopping completely and staying stopped for 1 year+ truly fixed me.
True that. I stepped away for other reasons, but the time away forced me to stop buying keyboards and artisans; once I broke the FOMO-combo I realized that it wasn't such a bad thing to not spend money all the time. Coming back after such a break is interesting, because the hobby is so focused on buying, but I do believe that it's still possible to enjoy by living vicariously through others. :D
For me, I ended up with the core grouping of boards I've had for quite some time as well. I don't use my first board at all, despite still owning it, but I could have stopped many years and many boards ago and saved quite a bit of trouble. :))
Thanks for stopping by with an update, intelli, always great to see you around. :-*
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 04 October 2017, 02:28:36
On keyboard end, I can't resist buying a 75SQ (by leeku) and my most recent purchase was that SIIG-wanna be with Monterey Blues which was too good to be true. I hope these two will be my last keyboards for some time, so wish me luck.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 08 October 2017, 08:04:13
Now, when it comes to making more revenue, I DO allow myself to increase my productivity, for instance, buying more monitors, buying a mouse mat, upping my desktop etc. But I try to carefully evaluate every purchase, because of course the risk is that "I just need that model M" will be justified as an "efficiency increaser".
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 11 October 2017, 21:03:05
2.5 years later, I can conclusively say my wallet is unhacked. What finally worked?
Taking a huge step back... a complete break from keyboards and other money-hungry hobbies. Quitting cold-turkey. I found scaling back to not be effective. It helped some but I never really felt like I had things under control.
Only stopping completely and staying stopped for 1 year+ truly fixed me.
This is a big reason I stopped posting on GH. It wasn't possible to develop new habits while continuing to participate in keyboard discussions and be exposed to all the new products.
Interesting things to note. At the end of it all, after going through 100+ keyboards, the couple I kept were the ones I started out with. If you're just now starting to go down the rabbit hole, be careful. Don't chase perfection...it absolutely doesn't exist. With every new keyboard, the novelty wears off sooner. The getting is never as good as the wanting. And you can end up making yourself pretty unhappy with this cycle.
It's all about habits, I think. You need to rewire your brain by performing the correct action over and over until it's the default.I think the worst moments I've ever had in this hobby were literally pacing back and forth considering what I should buy, and literally mulling over it for hours on end to convince myself it was fine. I was dealing with a **** ton of cognitive dissonance and that was really horrible. It's true that this hobby can pull out tendencies that are dangerously close to substance abuse.
Nailed it..
I see the OP was modified recently, but I don't know what has changed. Perhaps introducing the above text (even a synopsis of it) under a "2.5 years later" heading at the bottom would be nice.
I still direct people to this thread from time to time.
As for me, I ran out of money and had to stop spending on everything. So far I have not had to sell anything, although a couple of offers have meandered my way.
I'd agree that having stopped buying for a while (more than a year for me) I can more objectively evaluate whether I really need that new thing. In most cases I don't, and I can resist a bit more easily.
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 12 October 2017, 04:23:38
Post by: gizmoplex on Thu, 12 October 2017, 06:24:17
I never really thought about what this hobby might become and what it might do to me (mentally and financially). But after reading this thread page by page it got me thinking, while it's still early for me I might have to come up with some strategy or plan for me to enjoy this hobby on a healthy level, more of a preventive side.
So once again, thanks man!
After reading a lot of old threads it's evident the community is pretty ****ing great here and if you can resist the hype and FOMO it seems like a fine way to hang out online.
That's very true futurecrime there's a lot of cool thread here in GH other than GB and classified that I need to dig deeper. :thumb:
Post by: dante on Thu, 02 November 2017, 09:12:16
I would decide on something I "need", delay purchasing it for a few weeks, by that time I don't even want it. In fact often times there is a sense of gratefulness upon myself that I didn't go forward with the purchase.
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 02 November 2017, 20:57:55
I think I've been cured of my keyboard spending habits.
I would decide on something I "need", delay purchasing it for a few weeks, by that time I don't even want it. In fact often times there is a sense of gratefulness upon myself that I didn't go forward with the purchase.
That's a good approach.
Works even better if you don't have the money for the purchase in the first place.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 02 November 2017, 21:11:28
I think I've been cured of my keyboard spending habits.
I would decide on something I "need", delay purchasing it for a few weeks, by that time I don't even want it. In fact often times there is a sense of gratefulness upon myself that I didn't go forward with the purchase.
That's a good approach.
Works even better if you don't have the money for the purchase in the first place.
I've been practicing this. 10/10 works every time.
Post by: OfTheWild on Tue, 07 November 2017, 23:46:49
Post by: ideus on Wed, 08 November 2017, 07:53:21
I just use my paypal account as a buffer for all my "acquisition disorder" items. I make things, sell things, and buy things all separately from my bank account. It helps keep my fun money and my life expenses isolated. Also not growing attached to things helps. I have my 'must keep' items but generally everything has a price tag. Half the fun is gone once something is complete for me.
Yet, you basically have a cognitive dissonance disorder in regards to your finances, or worst, you are a finance bi-polar individual. :p
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 08 November 2017, 20:45:12
I just use my paypal account as a buffer for all my "acquisition disorder" items. I make things, sell things, and buy things all separately from my bank account. It helps keep my fun money and my life expenses isolated. Also not growing attached to things helps. I have my 'must keep' items but generally everything has a price tag. Half the fun is gone once something is complete for me.
Yet, you basically have a cognitive dissonance disorder in regards to your finances, or worst, you are a finance bi-polar individual. :p
(http://saliv8.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Animated-gifs/1316713879_castle_reaction.gif)
yeah. I'll own that.
I guess I do kind of rationalize it as a way to be financially irresponsible but with out the dangerous repercussions of impacting your lifestyle budget (bills, expenses, etc). Which I will agree, is definitely on the cognitive dissonance spectrum.
Post by: phorx on Mon, 19 March 2018, 14:34:51
I spent through my xmas bonus pretty quickly but have since moved to a different save/spend model:
1. make a plan for the next keyboard project/keycap set/other I want to work on
2. save money specifically earmarked for keebs, only after all other bills & savings are done
3. wait a month ( to make sure no new unexpected costs come in )
4. This is the hardest part! Look for something to spend on that satisfies #1, and only #1
5. if nothing comes up for #4 ( big if, I know ), return to #2
Anyway, we'll see how long this plan lasts, but it seems wife-friendly so far :)
Post by: davkol on Mon, 19 March 2018, 16:54:00
I'm kicking myself for missing one unique build three years ago, when I wasn't sure about the size of my financial buffer. The thing is, I would have been fine, even benefit from it… it won't show up again and will take weeks of work to replicate.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 20 March 2018, 13:08:25
Post by: phorx on Tue, 20 March 2018, 13:29:20
Post by: davkol on Wed, 21 March 2018, 09:39:50
I have to count myself lucky as I'm not so much collection-focused, so I don't look at rare and vintage items the same way as others. Having particular builds or projects in mind makes this hobby much less spendy than it could be.Funny you mention this, what I had in mind was an ergonomic keyboard that I'd actively use.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 21 March 2018, 10:18:34
I have to count myself lucky as I'm not so much collection-focused, so I don't look at rare and vintage items the same way as others. Having particular builds or projects in mind makes this hobby much less spendy than it could be.Funny you mention this, what I had in mind was an ergonomic keyboard that I'd actively use.
Quit the Beast while ya'll are ahead..
Tp4 only browses Home improvement tools these days..
Functional above all else.
Post by: ppp on Wed, 21 March 2018, 10:31:43
I have to count myself lucky as I'm not so much collection-focused, so I don't look at rare and vintage items the same way as others. Having particular builds or projects in mind makes this hobby much less spendy than it could be.Funny you mention this, what I had in mind was an ergonomic keyboard that I'd actively use.
Quit the Beast while ya'll are ahead..
Tp4 only browses Home improvement tools these days..
Functional above all else.
But doesn't it usually cost more to make something yourself than buy something a megacorporation has amortized? 🤔
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 21 March 2018, 10:48:32
I have to count myself lucky as I'm not so much collection-focused, so I don't look at rare and vintage items the same way as others. Having particular builds or projects in mind makes this hobby much less spendy than it could be.Funny you mention this, what I had in mind was an ergonomic keyboard that I'd actively use.
Quit the Beast while ya'll are ahead..
Tp4 only browses Home improvement tools these days..
Functional above all else.
But doesn't it usually cost more to make something yourself than buy something a megacorporation has amortized? 🤔
Said amortized items usually don't have quite the resilience of one-off products and custom things are able to be personalized to your exact needs.
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 12 April 2018, 05:20:09
And yet, I somehow feel ok. Everyone needs a Korean keeb, right? Right?
Post by: bliss on Tue, 25 February 2020, 14:40:43
EDIT: In this definition, a GB "ends" when the items have been delivered to my doorstep.
I think that is still very much but it introduces a ceiling. Exception to the rule is allowed if and only if my personal kryptonite occurs, i.e. reruns of GMK Skeletor or Nautilus (guess what - Nautilus 2 is currently in IC).
And I put every item I buy to use, no collecting. This should saturate the "need" to buy eventually.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 09 March 2020, 14:53:10
My policy: only go three-wide with group buys at any time - join not more than three concurrent GBs :D
EDIT: In this definition, a GB "ends" when the items have been delivered to my doorstep.
I think that is still very much but it introduces a ceiling. Exception to the rule is allowed if and only if my personal kryptonite occurs, i.e. reruns of GMK Skeletor or Nautilus (guess what - Nautilus 2 is currently in IC).
And I put every item I buy to use, no collecting. This should saturate the "need" to buy eventually.
What would you do if all three GBs get caught in GB Hell? :confused:
It's certainly a good rule. :thumb: Anything to keep things in check is a positive.
Post by: bliss on Fri, 20 March 2020, 06:00:10
My policy: only go three-wide with group buys at any time - join not more than three concurrent GBs :D
EDIT: In this definition, a GB "ends" when the items have been delivered to my doorstep.
I think that is still very much but it introduces a ceiling. Exception to the rule is allowed if and only if my personal kryptonite occurs, i.e. reruns of GMK Skeletor or Nautilus (guess what - Nautilus 2 is currently in IC).
And I put every item I buy to use, no collecting. This should saturate the "need" to buy eventually.
What would you do if all three GBs get caught in GB Hell? :confused:
It's certainly a good rule. :thumb: Anything to keep things in check is a positive.
Forgive my late answer, things have been out of the ordinary...
So GB Hell is when you have joined a GB and it gets delayed for a long time? Well, the rule still applies :D If all three GB are in Hell, which is unlikely, then I might not be inclined to join yet another GB anyway :p Also, I think it is a good idea to only use two of the three "slots" if you will, to have one free for anything You-Can't-Afford-To-Miss(tm).
And thank you, the rule was very effective for me so far :thumb:
Post by: IronCheeks on Fri, 08 May 2020, 11:10:16
My policy: only go three-wide with group buys at any time - join not more than three concurrent GBs :D
EDIT: In this definition, a GB "ends" when the items have been delivered to my doorstep.
I think that is still very much but it introduces a ceiling. Exception to the rule is allowed if and only if my personal kryptonite occurs, i.e. reruns of GMK Skeletor or Nautilus (guess what - Nautilus 2 is currently in IC).
And I put every item I buy to use, no collecting. This should saturate the "need" to buy eventually.
That's a pretty decent outlook for me to consider, especially as a newcomer to this hobby. After going through few pages of the comments and discussion to the OP and a few others - I agree with a lot of what's being said. The introduction of a ceiling is something I wish I had when I was into sneaker-collecting and with fountain pens. I have set a limit on groupbuys I am part of, but still have spent quite a lot on artisans, despite even having my first custom keyboard in.
I think as mentioned before that it's the rabbit-hole of any hobby; once you get bit by the bug, you can's stop there. But that's why it's great to implement a budget and ample time to appreciate what you have now so that way the "need" of desire is satiated in a nice, fruitful way.
Post by: MaddSplatter49 on Sat, 09 May 2020, 13:20:58
Post by: Nonuke on Sun, 29 November 2020, 01:30:50
As the OP I started with a DAS Keyboard, later bought a second one. I kept one at home and another at work. I was really happy and had no idea of what the mech keyboard scene was like.
A while ago, when the virus start hitting, I became aware of custom builds and 60% boards.
More than once I was about to buy stuff for assembling one myself, but refrain since I was having doubts if I could do it. I got some soldering cheap tools, just to understand a bit on how to use it, and to get some of the technique. I ended up buying a Drop Alt, and this is my daily driver since April 2020. I got some keycaps in Ali Express, still not with me due to a few logistic issues. And just today I purchased an used Infinity Ergodox, that should arrive in a few days.
I can feel the trend, the rabbit hole calling me. In December/January I will have at least 2 weeks off, and I want now to buy parts and build my own keyboard, from top to bottom. I still have many doubts on the parts to get, the switches to choose, if a 40%, 60% or Ergodox layout. I go to sleep asking myself if I should go full throttle on soldering or if I should get a hot swapable board. All of it without thinking for a moment how much it would cost. I am playing on the card “I deserve it”, and here is where it gets dangerous.
It is true that as adults we are the captains of our lives, and that our parent’s are not there to stop us to make questionable decisions. But if you are married or have kids, all can change. Today my main deterrent to giving up to the siren call is the judgmental look of my wife, each time a new keyboard appears in the house. If boxes of parts start arriving at the front door, I bet I will have a hard time from her - on her view it is a bad choice of where to spend money. I am aware she will not be happy when the Ergodox arrives...
In a way I thank her. On the other hand, here I am, lurking in a forum on a Sunday morning reading about mech keyboards.
I hope it all ends well...
Post by: ideus on Sun, 29 November 2020, 18:39:45
Well, I am starting on this world now. Kind of.
As the OP I started with a DAS Keyboard, later bought a second one. I kept one at home and another at work. I was really happy and had no idea of what the mech keyboard scene was like.
A while ago, when the virus start hitting, I became aware of custom builds and 60% boards.
More than once I was about to buy stuff for assembling one myself, but refrain since I was having doubts if I could do it. I got some soldering cheap tools, just to understand a bit on how to use it, and to get some of the technique. I ended up buying a Drop Alt, and this is my daily driver since April 2020. I got some keycaps in Ali Express, still not with me due to a few logistic issues. And just today I purchased an used Infinity Ergodox, that should arrive in a few days.
I can feel the trend, the rabbit hole calling me. In December/January I will have at least 2 weeks off, and I want now to buy parts and build my own keyboard, from top to bottom. I still have many doubts on the parts to get, the switches to choose, if a 40%, 60% or Ergodox layout. I go to sleep asking myself if I should go full throttle on soldering or if I should get a hot swapable board. All of it without thinking for a moment how much it would cost. I am playing on the card “I deserve it”, and here is where it gets dangerous.
It is true that as adults we are the captains of our lives, and that our parent’s are not there to stop us to make questionable decisions. But if you are married or have kids, all can change. Today my main deterrent to giving up to the siren call is the judgmental look of my wife, each time a new keyboard appears in the house. If boxes of parts start arriving at the front door, I bet I will have a hard time from her - on her view it is a bad choice of where to spend money. I am aware she will not be happy when the Ergodox arrives...
In a way I thank her. On the other hand, here I am, lurking in a forum on a Sunday morning reading about mech keyboards.
I hope it all ends well...
The key-part of last phrase is: "ends".
Post by: SmoothFaces on Sun, 29 November 2020, 19:25:36
Post by: Macavelli on Thu, 14 January 2021, 21:54:20
Post by: hottrout on Mon, 24 May 2021, 04:55:32
"Hi, I'm Paul and I spend way too much on keyboards"
Paul aka Hot Trout
Keyboard Enthusiast Anonymous Member since 2012
Now that is out of the way. I have been a collector (horder) all my life. My interests include, HiFi, old computer, consoles and games, old handhelds, watches, motorcycles and since 2012 keyboards. With all of these FOMO was a big factor once you were into the hobby. FOMO is what will make you buy the wrong thing and spend too much. Once you get a handle on FOMO you will have better control of your collecting hobby. That said, I have way more computers and consoles than I can ever restore (unless I live to 120 years old) and I have way more watches than I can wear. I also have way more keyboards than I can remember, let alone use. Do I regret buying them, no, so long as they do not impact my real life or my family. Always spend what you can afford to loose and you will not go too far wrong. If it helps, I can justify a lot of it as investments. Most if not all of my things, bikes, watches, computers and now keyboards are all worth more than what I paid for them, this makes them a good investment.
To make sure this investment is not lost (in the event of my death or sudden loss of memory), I have put everything of any real value into a list that explains it all to my next of kin, so that they, without any knowledge, will still know what to sell and why it has value, as well as that expected value. This way I get comfort from knowing that what I enjoy now as a hobby, my family will enjoy later as cash. I like to think they will pick up one of my Amiga's and think of me or want to keep 'dads old Iron 165' as a keep sake, but that most likely will not care. They might however care about the price of the Iron 165 when they go to sell it.
Post by: jamster on Mon, 24 May 2021, 05:40:04
They are two of my interests (for bikes, human powered) and normal purchases depreciate like crazy, unless you've got something like a mint condition Apple Lisa sitting in it's original sealed box.
Post by: hottrout on Mon, 24 May 2021, 12:52:19
Are things like computers and bikes (either motorised or human-powered) really investments though?
They are two of my interests (for bikes, human powered) and normal purchases depreciate like crazy, unless you've got something like a mint condition Apple Lisa sitting in it's original sealed box.
For me it is motorcycles and I always buy old, collectible to restore and turn profit (if I sold them). On the computer collection I have many rare item's, many boxed and many sought after. I don't have a boxed Lisa ... yet.