[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106725.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/m0PHzjC.jpg[/img][/url]
Refined indeed, glad I'm also not the only one who feels the legends on KAT could do with some work.
Would like more information on the White of the BoW set though, will this be ABS or PBT?
Is a french kit doable ? With classic colorway like these you would sell some (not hundreds tho). I think I would buy two full sets, especially if you put the third legend like you did in NorDe kit. This third legend is missing in all KAT sets because of centered legends.
why is it labeled in reverse R1-4 bottom to top instead of top to bottom?KAT's manufacturer numbers it that way. You'll also see this numbering with many OEM manufacturers.
why is it labeled in reverse R1-4 bottom to top instead of top to bottom?KAT's manufacturer numbers it that way. You'll also see this numbering with many OEM manufacturers.
Colevrak for WoB and BoW pleaseMy man. +1 for colevrak+ in both WoB and BoW.
+1 for colevrak supportColevrak for WoB and BoW pleaseMy man. +1 for colevrak+ in both WoB and BoW.
Dvorcol's excellent reference:
https://imgur.com/gallery/4Sy4ph1
Is a french kit doable ? With classic colorway like these you would sell some (not hundreds tho). I think I would buy two full sets, especially if you put the third legend like you did in NorDe kit. This third legend is missing in all KAT sets because of centered legends.I second this, also North and South kits would make a lot of sense for this kind of set. Please think about it!
You would make some dudes like me very happy !
Love this! I also second others about a non-stepped HHKB capslock.It's in the to do list! Hyped for this, hhkb kit is a godsend
Thank you all for your feedback and comments. I'm having a computer free day today but I will get back on kit suggestions etc later, but I can already say now that regular caps lock will be added to the HHKB kit.Nice. In for both hhkb sets!
HHKB kits updated (I couldn't resist)Nice.
So now, what kinda white is this? As I've learned from buying many sets, black can be black, but white seems to have many forms.
1. the gutters look a little too small? i agree gmk gutters are really inconsistent (oblivion git rip) but it looks strange being that close to the edge
2. some of the numrow symbols look really large, like the %
3. im not sold on the font. it looks a little too plain? maybe it's just renders, where everything looks sharp, or i'm just used to the ibm style font when talking about less rounded legends.
After your introduction I was really curious, but in the end I'm pretty disappointed. You obviously did a good job on the refinement, but in the end it just follows the same rules every cherry set is following and apply them to KAT. The same icons, off centered legends and uninspired font.
a little surprised by the hhkb set. even though kat moqs are different, more kits are still a logistical sorting issue and the hhkb one feels a little superfluous. and i use an hhkb layout at times, but without the stepped caps since I prefer a regular ctrl there.
This is gorgeous, exactly what I needed to make me purchase a set. Any eta?
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You're missing 1.75u Control for HHKB
ne purse caps lock avail?
It appears you are missing kits for Ergodox. I'd be happy to help you sort those out.Thank you for reaching out. I will consider it.
The guide I've written is a good starting point:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105714.0
do you want to elaborate on why you chose to have an hhkb kit rather than a "tsangan 60%" kit?
at bare minimum, 2 more keys (2x 1.5u ctrl) would give you a 7u bottom row.
I have to agree that base sets in general should be more encompassing. ISO, Function and Numpad should always be in base in my opinion. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I normally buy all parts of any set in case I decide to put it on a different board and maybe one that has not even been designed yet.
This looks like the first KAT keycaps GB I'll join, especially if the white will be closer to WS2 than WS1 from GMK.Personally prefer WS1. WS2 is for people who can't decide between CP or WS1
There are further refinements to go but as a set goes both WoB and BoW look impressive. I think that such a good set needs to have everyone's additional key's added and this would make it a must have standard set for everyone. If you are going this far, then take the time to do everything and it will be around for many years and sell many more times. Go big baby. I am in for both sets for sure.
Looks great! Super clean and love the aesthetic, interested in proxying it. Pming you in a bit :)))
- The F row kits seem to be the only ones with R5 keys. If keeping with that, they need to add keys like Insert and Delete (for 75% keyboards) and move the R4 End and PgDn there (for 1800 and 1800-like layouts).
- R2 \| is missing in the alphas kits (disregarding the HHKB ones); R3 #~ should be in NorDeUK instead.
- R3 1.5U \| is in the mods kits instead of the alphas kits for no apparent reason.
- Is the NorDeUk list of supported national layouts the usual band of five? (Danish, English (UK), German, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish) And... why? This is KAT, so it should be feasible to break this up into, at the very least, NorDe and UK.
- The NorDeUk kits are missing the numpad comma (although I'd put it in the numpad kits). I'll check in detail later, but so far there seem to be no other obvious errors or omissions there.
- The F row kits seem to be the only ones with R5 keys. If keeping with that, they need to add keys like Insert and Delete (for 75% keyboards) and move the R4 End and PgDn there (for 1800 and 1800-like layouts).
One question- will other, future KAT sets be able to use the legends you develop for Refined? I'd really like to see more sets on KAT and I think that these legends would push designers towards KAT as a bigger option.
It's just a little bit pity that it's not regular KAT font as it will create inconsistency in font if someone would want to mix it with other KAT sets, GLWGB
Is a french kit doable ? With classic colorway like these you would sell some (not hundreds tho). I think I would buy two full sets, especially if you put the third legend like you did in NorDe kit. This third legend is missing in all KAT sets because of centered legends.I second this, also North and South kits would make a lot of sense for this kind of set. Please think about it!
You would make some dudes like me very happy !
please add R2 1.75u Control in mod kit.
do you think a separate spacebar kit is possible?
Are you going to do any novelties?No sorry, no novelties.
F row not on mods kits... I dont get the point. Even if I dont use them I prefer to have a full base kit and KAT prices are not that important to separate them. This way you will save few dollars per kit, not worth it imo
I have to agree that base sets in general should be more encompassing. ISO, Function and Numpad should always be in base in my opinion. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I normally buy all parts of any set in case I decide to put it on a different board and maybe one that has not even been designed yet.
The font legends look amazing, but is there any chance to have them centered? I think that would be a fresh look that's better than the current state of both GMK and KAT legends.
Are there any black KAT keycaps out in the wild right now? I am curious to see how the dyesub will look for WoB. Otherwise, count me interested in this set.
May I ask the reason for no full icon mods?I just dislike them, so there's not much to refine except not offering them at all. Sorry. Hope there are other reasons for you to jump on the train anyway.
Would it be possible to have a small accent kit? Something like mr sleeves on Minimal. Would be very nice!That's not something I will do in this round. Maybe R2
Great job! Any chance of adding a "Delete" on the F row?
The 40s kit is super weak for KAT. I suggest taking a look at KAT Explosion or KAT Space Cadet.
Is a french kit doable ? With classic colorway like these you would sell some (not hundreds tho). I think I would buy two full sets, especially if you put the third legend like you did in NorDe kit. This third legend is missing in all KAT sets because of centered legends.Same feeling, same question, same possible happiness
You would make some dudes like me very happy !
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Wanna consider Colevrak+ support? A strong 13 out of 613 Alphas orders for KAT Arctic came with Colevrak+ orders, for example :P
Okay I know the numbers are not strong, but a few of us do exist and would appreciate it!
Are you going to do any novelties?No sorry, no novelties.
Could there be a R2 1.75u "Control" somewhere as well? For the not insignificant amount of people who like replacing Caps Lock with Control. Preferably icon, but anything is better than nothing.
Actually surprised that isn't in the HHKB kit by default, since that is default HHKB layout after all.
For me personally it could even go in the Mac kit, since I use Mac anyway and always map Caps Lock to Control in the system preferences. The "Command" key there is nice, but well, I don't have Command there... :)
+1 for colevrak supportColevrak for WoB and BoW pleaseMy man. +1 for colevrak+ in both WoB and BoW.
Dvorcol's excellent reference:
https://imgur.com/gallery/4Sy4ph1
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This is an interesting project, good job MacSurfy! I have a few questions/remarks:
On the icon+text ISO and numpad Enter keys, the ↲ icon is above the Enter text, whereas it's traditionally always been the other way around on GMK and other Cherry profile sets, as far as I know. Is this on purpose?
The Backspace arrow tail seems a tad too long to me. Maybe make it a bit shorter, so it's halfway in between the Tab and Enter arrows in length? Just a suggestion — feel free to ignore it if you think what you currently have works better, as I'm sure you had a reason for making it longer. To me it doesn't look bad, just odd, but that may be because I'm not used to it.
By the way, you can move the R4 (R1) PgDn and End keys to the numpad kit, since those keys are never used on boards without numpads.
Please consider using R3 \|, R4 <> for the ISO keys, like GMK Firefly, Yugo and Rouge did. These keys cover more layouts than R3 #~, R4 \| do. 1 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106305.msg2908129#msg2908129) 2 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90706.msg2894820#msg2894820)
Overall, I think the way you have kitting set up is pretty interesting. Glad to see an alternative to the Code keys in the extra mods kits.
Thank you Konstantin for your constructive and thought out reply. Appreciated. I actually had the R3 \|, R4 <> in before but removed them on someones advice. But you aren't the first to mention them so might look to add them back in.
Backspace arrow is actually set up to shrink with the cap size at a certain percentage (not updated in the visuals yet). You can't see it very well but on the Lodestone render you'll notice how it perfectly lines up with enter which looks quite pleasing (especially when seeing it from a straight down top view). The same happens on Icon+Text mods. I am still tweaking that setup so I might revert to a shorter tail in the end.
Boy you weren't kidding with crossing out the gmk in the title, the 40s kit is pulled straight out of it. Besides that my biggest concerns with the kitting is that you will be paying a huge premium just to have smaller kits when what rensuya/eski have kitted out works a whole lot better for this style of moq.
So what's the exact purpose of having all these overlapping keys and eccentric kitting that's just copied as if it was gmk moq systems. The whole reason I and many people like Kat is that it's very flexible and limits the amount of wasted keys so this kind of kitting is the very opposite of refined. I sure hope this doesn't set a dangerous precedent if the kitting stays but thats my two cents.
Boy you weren't kidding with crossing out the gmk in the title, the 40s kit is pulled straight out of it. Besides that my biggest concerns with the kitting is that you will be paying a huge premium just to have smaller kits when what rensuya/eski have kitted out works a whole lot better for this style of moq.
So what's the exact purpose of having all these overlapping keys and eccentric kitting that's just copied as if it was gmk moq systems. The whole reason I and many people like Kat is that it's very flexible and limits the amount of wasted keys so this kind of kitting is the very opposite of refined. I sure hope this doesn't set a dangerous precedent if the kitting stays but thats my two cents.
I hear you, and you aren't the only one who has commented on the kits. If I would follow previous "succesful" KAT-kitting I would end up with approximately 40 kits. Looking at the sales on a few different KAT sets I find it really hard to motivate the increased risk of QC/packaging errors AND all the extra work I have to put in (we're not talking a few hours here). The loud minority is present as always on GH ;D. Personally I am also wondering how intimidating it is for people who aren't as deep in the hobby as we might be to pick the kits they need when there is so many of them. This is also something I have heard from vendors.
Your message was received loud and clear though. I will be thinking about how I can structure the kits in a more efficient way that has the biggest reach. If you have any pointers let me know and I will try my best to make it happen.
Boy you weren't kidding with crossing out the gmk in the title, the 40s kit is pulled straight out of it. Besides that my biggest concerns with the kitting is that you will be paying a huge premium just to have smaller kits when what rensuya/eski have kitted out works a whole lot better for this style of moq.
So what's the exact purpose of having all these overlapping keys and eccentric kitting that's just copied as if it was gmk moq systems. The whole reason I and many people like Kat is that it's very flexible and limits the amount of wasted keys so this kind of kitting is the very opposite of refined. I sure hope this doesn't set a dangerous precedent if the kitting stays but thats my two cents.
I hear you, and you aren't the only one who has commented on the kits. If I would follow previous "succesful" KAT-kitting I would end up with approximately 40 kits. Looking at the sales on a few different KAT sets I find it really hard to motivate the increased risk of QC/packaging errors AND all the extra work I have to put in (we're not talking a few hours here). The loud minority is present as always on GH ;D. Personally I am also wondering how intimidating it is for people who aren't as deep in the hobby as we might be to pick the kits they need when there is so many of them. This is also something I have heard from vendors.
Your message was received loud and clear though. I will be thinking about how I can structure the kits in a more efficient way that has the biggest reach. If you have any pointers let me know and I will try my best to make it happen.
You have the pointers, copy Space Cadet kitting.
Boy you weren't kidding with crossing out the gmk in the title, the 40s kit is pulled straight out of it. Besides that my biggest concerns with the kitting is that you will be paying a huge premium just to have smaller kits when what rensuya/eski have kitted out works a whole lot better for this style of moq.
So what's the exact purpose of having all these overlapping keys and eccentric kitting that's just copied as if it was gmk moq systems. The whole reason I and many people like Kat is that it's very flexible and limits the amount of wasted keys so this kind of kitting is the very opposite of refined. I sure hope this doesn't set a dangerous precedent if the kitting stays but thats my two cents.
I hear you, and you aren't the only one who has commented on the kits. If I would follow previous "succesful" KAT-kitting I would end up with approximately 40 kits. Looking at the sales on a few different KAT sets I find it really hard to motivate the increased risk of QC/packaging errors AND all the extra work I have to put in (we're not talking a few hours here). The loud minority is present as always on GH ;D. Personally I am also wondering how intimidating it is for people who aren't as deep in the hobby as we might be to pick the kits they need when there is so many of them. This is also something I have heard from vendors.
Your message was received loud and clear though. I will be thinking about how I can structure the kits in a more efficient way that has the biggest reach. If you have any pointers let me know and I will try my best to make it happen.
You have the pointers, copy Space Cadet kitting.
Or combine 40s/ortho if you have to. You won't even have to add kits. Just replace current 40s add-on kit with 40s/ortho. You will have the exact same number of kits. Just one good one instead of handicapped add-on.
I don't think anyone is asking for 6 more kits. 40s/ortho users are asking for one kit to be replaced. At the very least.
Now it would be nice to add one more kit for each colorway so there's a choice between icons and text, but that's okay. I understand you don't want to add more kits after having added 3 different regular mod kits with F keys separated already. (There's a solution for that as well, and people who use F keys have mentioned it in this thread.)
The numbers of the number row look pretty small in your pictures of the kits. Especially noticeable in the NorDe kit, symbols and characters like € and ß are way bigger than the numbers.
do you want to elaborate on why you chose to have an hhkb kit rather than a "tsangan 60%" kit?I agree that the HHKB kit is a little weird, since it seems like the entirety of the HHKB kit plus Tsangan support and normal ANSI support is covered by the letter + choice of mods. I don't know if there are MOQs when you're talking about dye sub, but it seems like HHKB is overly specific as a kit, while also being overly opinionated about text/icons/both.
at bare minimum, 2 more keys (2x 1.5u ctrl) would give you a 7u bottom row.
1 additional key (2.75u shift) would give you full right shift support.
2 additional keys (2u backspace and 1.5u pipe) would give full backspace support.
potentially, a fulltouch caps lock would round off all "needed" compatibility for a 7u 60% kit.
all in all, that is 6 additional keys which would make the kit much more desirable to a much wider range of people. so, the question stands - any reason you chose to make the kit hhkb only?
just my 2 cents, glwic :)
40s kit will be replaced by a 40's & Ortho kit. Working on it right now. Hope it will please most of you :)
Love it! I fell in love with the KAT profile coming from SA and love the non-aggressive lines KAT offers. Really like the simplicity of going with WoB. Have you thought of possibly having scooped homing keys as opposed to the ones with the bump on 'em. Definitely be keeping an eye on this one, cheers!
The thing that’s always bothered me about GMK sets is the caps lock legend on the icon mods. Nothing about that symbol indicates caps lock to me. Looks more like lowercase lock. Assuming the goal is to create a set with the signature GMK look but with all the flaws fixed up, seems like an opportunity to fix that incongruous legend. The upward arrow with the little bar underneath (seen in GMK Future Funk icon mods, for example) captures the caps lock function much more accurately IMO.
If you do decide to stick with the down arrow icon, I’ll still be in for BoW with text mods!
Great work on this.
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im not an expert with kitting sets, but the og 40s kit was ok to me. dont know if there is a special reason to mix 40s wtih ortho,i think ortholinear belongs more to the ergo kits, but that is only my opinion.
40s kit has been replaced.Ne icon mods?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fk2HoK8.jpg)
40s kit has been replaced.Ne icon mods?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fk2HoK8.jpg)
40s kit has been replaced.Ne icon mods?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fk2HoK8.jpg)
I was going for that at first but seems like text mods is the preferred way on smaller layouts.
Added 1.75u Control to HHKB kits. It feels pretty Frankensteined at the moment. Personally I would not use a text mod like that with icon mods. Rather just use the regular Caps Lock icons so we will see how I feel about it later down the road.
40s kit has been replaced.I'm a big fan of the R2 changes you've made and love the space bar options. Thank you!!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fk2HoK8.jpg)
40s kit has been replaced.Ne icon mods?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fk2HoK8.jpg)
I was going for that at first but seems like text mods is the preferred way on smaller layouts.
Except it's not. Every KAT GB so far that featured both options had a larger amount of icon mods sold for ortho.
40s kit has been replaced.Ne icon mods?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fk2HoK8.jpg)
I was going for that at first but seems like text mods is the preferred way on smaller layouts.
Except it's not. Every KAT GB so far that featured both options had a larger amount of icon mods sold for ortho.
To me this really depends on the kit colors, the font, the alphas (I don't like non-Latin alphas with text mods), etc. In this case I like the text mods more than icon mods. So it's very subjective.
Ideally both would be on offer, but that's the runners choice.
The downward arrow to mean “lock” is fairly common in European keyboards. In German-language boards, they rarely have anything other than that icon on that key.
I’m not sure who started the trend, but GMK likely uses it because they’re a German company.The thing that’s always bothered me about GMK sets is the caps lock legend on the icon mods. Nothing about that symbol indicates caps lock to me. Looks more like lowercase lock. Assuming the goal is to create a set with the signature GMK look but with all the flaws fixed up, seems like an opportunity to fix that incongruous legend. The upward arrow with the little bar underneath (seen in GMK Future Funk icon mods, for example) captures the caps lock function much more accurately IMO.
If you do decide to stick with the down arrow icon, I’ll still be in for BoW with text mods!
Great work on this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Added 1.75u Control to HHKB kits. It feels pretty Frankensteined at the moment. Personally I would not use a text mod like that with icon mods. Rather just use the regular Caps Lock icons so we will see how I feel about it later down the road.Please make it a control icon in the icon mods NOT TEXT. Also please add a full icon bottom row kit, since there is not limit to the kits I can't imagine a scenario where you don't add this option.
Added 1.75u Control to HHKB kits. It feels pretty Frankensteined at the moment. Personally I would not use a text mod like that with icon mods. Rather just use the regular Caps Lock icons so we will see how I feel about it later down the road.Please make it a control icon in the icon mods NOT TEXT. Also please add a full icon bottom row kit, since there is not limit to the kits I can't imagine a scenario where you don't add this option.
To reiterate my last message. Backspace icon is way too long, and the hook on ANSI Enter is too short, it doesnt look icony enough, please compare to GMK icon mods.
To reiterate my last message. Backspace icon is way too long, and the hook on ANSI Enter is too short, it doesnt look icony enough, please compare to GMK icon mods.
Added 1.75u Control to HHKB kits. It feels pretty Frankensteined at the moment. Personally I would not use a text mod like that with icon mods. Rather just use the regular Caps Lock icons so we will see how I feel about it later down the road.Please make it a control icon in the icon mods NOT TEXT. Also please add a full icon bottom row kit, since there is not limit to the kits I can't imagine a scenario where you don't add this option.
You may also want to include R1 1u Delete in the HHKB kit, since some people like to use that for their top-right corner key instead of `~.
Please make it a control icon in the icon mods NOT TEXT. Also please add a full icon bottom row kit, since there is not limit to the kits I can't imagine a scenario where you don't add this option.
Is a french kit doable ? With classic colorway like these you would sell some (not hundreds tho). I think I would buy two full sets, especially if you put the third legend like you did in NorDe kit. This third legend is missing in all KAT sets because of centered legends.I second this, also North and South kits would make a lot of sense for this kind of set. Please think about it!
You would make some dudes like me very happy !
Question: Why do we need a seperate WoB sub-set, when KAT WoB is still on track and looks pretty much the same?Read the first 2 posts.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EhiUpwj.jpg)
Question: Why do we need a seperate WoB sub-set, when KAT WoB is still on track and looks pretty much the same?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EhiUpwj.jpg)
Question: Why do we need a seperate WoB sub-set, when KAT WoB is still on track and looks pretty much the same?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EhiUpwj.jpg)
Edit: I was trolled obviously :D
Will there be a mixed black and white kit like in one of the renders?
I am gonna be spending so much money when this gets to GB!
I actually did a double take and realized that the Function keys are separate from the modifiers. Is that a money-saving decision?
KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?
This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...
@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small", I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ? We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.
KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...
#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter
Colevrak sets aren't selling that much anymore on all KAT offerings. The first few sure did, because "Finally! Colevrak!". After some time this has saturated a bit. And I take into the acount that when a non-Latin monolegend kit is offered, Colevrak users can buy that instead and are paying less than alphas + Colevrak kit.
Since this set has a different look than other KAT sets and there are no non-Latin legends on offer, I honestly believe Colevrak kits will do fairly well. KAT Space Cadet offered something truly amazing for alternative layout users: Stand alone Colemak and Dvorak alpha kits. It also had a mono cadet legend kit, so Colevrak users were spread out over three different kits. They didn't sell huge, but still okay, I'd say.
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?
This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...
@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small", I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ? We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.
KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...
#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter
I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?
This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...
@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small", I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ? We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.
KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...
#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter
I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?
I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so :thumb: for you truly.
By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French :'( . Here the GBs I followed :Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EcPPwib.png)
International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.
Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby :). Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did. You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...
Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated belowShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/ussxEIe.png)
Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?
This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...
@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small", I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ? We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.
KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...
#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter
I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?
I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so :thumb: for you truly.
By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French :'( . Here the GBs I followed :Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EcPPwib.png)
International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.
Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby :). Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did. You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...
Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated belowShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/ussxEIe.png)
Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !
Funny that we were doing some number crunching at the same time :)
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?
This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...
@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small", I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ? We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.
KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...
#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter
I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?
I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so :thumb: for you truly.
By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French :'( . Here the GBs I followed :Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EcPPwib.png)
International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.
Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby :). Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did. You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...
Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated belowShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/ussxEIe.png)
Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !
Funny that we were doing some number crunching at the same time :)
Yes and you did the same mistake as I did : your Space Cadet numbers are not final numbers. That doesn't argue in french kit favor, but I'm honest :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/2pBr4eS.png)
And here I am ISO-PT user (language included in South kits) :)
And here I am ISO-PT user (language included in South kits) :)
My condolences :D
I updated the chart, it didn't change much to have the final Space Cadet numbers in there except UK jumped up quite a bit.That’s a great job compiling all that data, interesting.
Worth noting is also that Ergo for instance was not offered in one of the sets, if it had been I think it could easily have been above 40s/Ortho. Also the Mac kit which sells pretty well actually, it was only offered in half of the sets so just by assuming it would have sold twice as well if it were offered, it would have been the 5th best selling kit. Not bad, and quite surprising.
Thanks for the update.
If you have faith in KAT and Keyreative, I think it makes sense to proceed with IC and Kit Design etc. - but if you feel that this is a waste of time then just put it on hold.
If QC is done right, and after some first impression from KAT users, the profile really has potential the get a big market share - and this design for WoB and BoW really looks like a big classic.
So would be a shame if it would not happen - but you‘re right - it deserves perfection.
Thanks for the update.
If you have faith in KAT and Keyreative, I think it makes sense to proceed with IC and Kit Design etc. - but if you feel that this is a waste of time then just put it on hold.
If QC is done right, and after some first impression from KAT users, the profile really has potential the get a big market share - and this design for WoB and BoW really looks like a big classic.
So would be a shame if it would not happen - but you‘re right - it deserves perfection.
I have faith in them and I will probably continue to develop the set regardless. I want to make sure we have something in case we have progress on the physical caps but my motivation sort of vanished. KAT Eternal is coming out soon, it's looking great and I am very curious to see how it turns out.
Now that KAT WoB GB has been halted, this GB is important. I will be buying both WoB and BoW, full sets, with ISO & UK & Numpad. Please make this happen.
I’ve been curious about the KAT profile ever since it was released. Heard good things about the typing experience and sound but I could just never get past the legends. As with most sculpted profiles the legends are really big, centered and seem less thought out than GMK/Cherry.
... I thought that perhaps there are more people like me out there, who are annoyed with GMK icons/legends but can’t find a good alternative. Or people who are willing to try a more sculpted profile but just can’t see themselves using centered legends/icons.
KAT sets so far have avoided tertiary (and cuaternary) legends because "KAT spherical, like SA" and "non centered looks bad on SA", and this is a point that needs to be tested: will corner-aligned legends look proper in KAT keycaps or not? (followed by will the necessarily thinner lines in those glyphs look fine?)
Any chance of adding 1u "`~" R4 key to the mod kits for split backspace 65% layouts? There's quite a big group of ppl using that layout, me included :)
Sometimes I think the designers just want to get the money and move on without dealing with problems but you come here and explain all and want to fix it. Thanks MacSurfy, this means a lot for me and the community. We can't keep ignoring these problems on keysets and I hope all the KAT/KAM designers make an effort to ix the problem with Keyreative
I really love the attention to detail in this set. A must but for me just for the typographic craft.
However, all that work will be wasted if the manufacturer doesn’t share your focus on quality and consistency. As it stands I’m hesitant about joining any KAT GB until some assurances are made.
Topclack brought me to this IC. Really appreciate all the work you've done thus far but completely understand if you abort the project in it current iteration with KAT.
I owned the KAT Alpha set from the initial GB and KAT is now my 2nd favourite profile with MT3 at #1 and Cherry (specifically GMK) at #3. Loved the texture and the sound of KAT profile but could not get into the dye-sub legend of that set. There were a lot of highly visible inconsistencies that even I noticed, let alone a designer with a focus like yours. Definitely agree it's a manufacturing issue so let's see if they can fix/improve the quality of the dye-sub.
Thank you for outlining the exact reasons for why I shy away from DSA/SA/etc. sets. I'm not sure if it's a psychological thing, but something about the look of Cherry icons/legends is just more pleasing than centered ones imo. The way you've detailed some of GMK's icon/legend problems and how you changed them also solves some of the problems I've had with GMK icon/legends and more. I'll definitely be watching this IC with great interest.
Yes please! I need me a set of white caps. God knows when Minimal R2 will happen. I need this NOW!
Definitely going to purchase this. Hope the manufacturer sorts out the current issues
Holy moly, I just learned about this on Top Clack and am so impressed with all of the hard work and thought that went into this! Amazing work!
Any chance of adding 1u "`~" R4 key to the mod kits for split backspace 65% layouts? There's quite a big group of ppl using that layout, me included :)
It is already in the alpha kit ;)
I know this thread has moved on but I wanted to make a comment on some of the kits that seem to sell in smaller numbers- like some of the language kits or the Colevrak set that I'd be interested in. Forgive me if it's something that's pretty obvious but I was concerned it was getting lost in all the numbers counting. That's the fact that even when numbers seem small these kits drive the sale of other kits in the group by. A person missing out on a Mac set or some novelties might still buy into the set but someone looking for language support is far less likely to buy it and someone who wants Colevrak probably won't at all. With that in mind each of those Colevrak kits probably represents the sale of at least 3-4 other kits in the buy. So a worst case 15 Colevrak kit sales might actually add, say, 60 kits when you consider everything else that person will purchase in the set, including the mandatory Alphas since having Colevrak alone isn't enough.This
I can say in my case that the presence of Colevrak in a set will motivate me to buy it and I really won't purchase it, no matter how great it is, without it. I'd be remiss if I didn't say that this set looks amazing so I'm very much hoping will see Colevrak for it.
I have been in contact with the manufacturer of KAT today and I'm very happy about how they are handling the current situation. They are doing their best to fix what is wrong for the customers that received scuffed caps/legends and will make sure that it doesn't happen again in the future.that is great to hear! make sure you have a really tight grip on the protoypes, either super-zoomed in detailed pictures or have the prototypes in hand yourself. Just observing the trouble Matt3o has with Susuwatari protoyping process made me appreciate the work you guys do so much more.
Hopefully the upcoming sets won't have these issues but I will monitor that closely.
So for now the show goes on!
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?
I get F13–F15, but I've never seen F16–F19 used on a Mac keyboard. What do you need those keys for?
https://en.varmilo.com/keyboardproscenium/subject_product_detailed?subjectid=112
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?From another Mac user: Please either add those keys to the F-row kit, or not at all.
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?From another Mac user: Please either add those keys to the F-row kit, or not at all.
Sub-TKL builds are way more popular these days. If someone already skips the F-row kit, what would they need F16-19 for? Seems wasteful.
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?From another Mac user: Please either add those keys to the F-row kit, or not at all.
Sub-TKL builds are way more popular these days. If someone already skips the F-row kit, what would they need F16-19 for? Seems wasteful.
Good point. It does add quite a few extra keys for what seems a very small group.
Since we're changing traditions here, on mac keyboards underscore is vertically aligned with + which I think looks excellent and balances the key quite a bit. I bet not many people realise that it is underscore that's above the minus, not vice versa considering that there is a + sign on the right, so I think not going "by the book" with underscore makes a lot of sense.Show Image(https://images.tech.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/22065115/macbook-kb.jpg)
Since we're changing traditions here, on mac keyboards underscore is vertically aligned with + which I think looks excellent and balances the key quite a bit. I bet not many people realise that it is underscore that's above the minus, not vice versa considering that there is a + sign on the right, so I think not going "by the book" with underscore makes a lot of sense.Show Image(https://images.tech.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/22065115/macbook-kb.jpg)
I am a little bit confused about what you are saying, or maybe I am just misinterpreting you.
Having the underscore center height aligned with the plus sign is exactly what makes it hard to understand. Is it a minus symbol or an underscore? GMK/Cherry actually has the underscore in the correct place so not sure why it needs to be less understandable by moving it up? It makes no sense to me, but please correct me if I misunderstood your request ;)
I am a little bit confused about what you are saying, or maybe I am just misinterpreting you.
Having the underscore center height aligned with the plus sign is exactly what makes it hard to understand. Is it a minus symbol or an underscore? GMK/Cherry actually has the underscore in the correct place so not sure why it needs to be less understandable by moving it up? It makes no sense to me, but please correct me if I misunderstood your request ;)
I don't know if you've already come to a conclusion on this but I wish you could make an alpha kit with the f row keys or at least a dual-color f row kit like the one in the render. Imo its seems kinda extra to take the time to make a kit only for the f row... I don't know if I'm just being nooby but it just doesn't seem all that necessary...
Edit: Please tell me if I'm being stupid or just correct me if I'm wrong.
Since we're changing traditions here, on mac keyboards underscore is vertically aligned with + which I think looks excellent and balances the key quite a bit. I bet not many people realise that it is underscore that's above the minus, not vice versa considering that there is a + sign on the right, so I think not going "by the book" with underscore makes a lot of sense.Show Image(https://images.tech.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/22065115/macbook-kb.jpg)
I am a little bit confused about what you are saying, or maybe I am just misinterpreting you.
Having the underscore center height aligned with the plus sign is exactly what makes it hard to understand. Is it a minus symbol or an underscore? GMK/Cherry actually has the underscore in the correct place so not sure why it needs to be less understandable by moving it up? It makes no sense to me, but please correct me if I misunderstood your request ;)
I don't know if you've already come to a conclusion on this but I wish you could make an alpha kit with the f row keys or at least a dual-color f row kit like the one in the render. Imo its seems kinda extra to take the time to make a kit only for the f row... I don't know if I'm just being nooby but it just doesn't seem all that necessary...
Edit: Please tell me if I'm being stupid or just correct me if I'm wrong.
For KAT, there is a downside to having too many SKUs, but outside of that, breaking out something like an F-row can be a net positive for common keyboard users.
Adding them to the alphas would increase the price of that kit for everybody, even those who don't use F-keys. If the designer really needs to decrease total SKU count, they should add the F-rows into one of the sets supporting TKL and other row-staggered layouts.
Most alpha kits that include F-row kits are intended as alternatives to the default alphas, rather than here where there are two true core alpha kits.
I don't know if you've already come to a conclusion on this but I wish you could make an alpha kit with the f row keys or at least a dual-color f row kit like the one in the render. Imo its seems kinda extra to take the time to make a kit only for the f row... I don't know if I'm just being nooby but it just doesn't seem all that necessary...
Edit: Please tell me if I'm being stupid or just correct me if I'm wrong.
For KAT, there is a downside to having too many SKUs, but outside of that, breaking out something like an F-row can be a net positive for common keyboard users.
Adding them to the alphas would increase the price of that kit for everybody, even those who don't use F-keys. If the designer really needs to decrease total SKU count, they should add the F-rows into one of the sets supporting TKL and other row-staggered layouts.
Most alpha kits that include F-row kits are intended as alternatives to the default alphas, rather than here where there are two true core alpha kits.
Okay so a second alpha kit with an f row is a no go. But can we get a dual-color f row so that you wouldn't have to buy both f rows just so you can have them set up like the one shown in the renders?
Thanks for any help I know I'm being nooby. :p
Nooo! What happened to hhkb kits! C'mon man :(I don't know if you've already come to a conclusion on this but I wish you could make an alpha kit with the f row keys or at least a dual-color f row kit like the one in the render. Imo its seems kinda extra to take the time to make a kit only for the f row... I don't know if I'm just being nooby but it just doesn't seem all that necessary...
Edit: Please tell me if I'm being stupid or just correct me if I'm wrong.
For KAT, there is a downside to having too many SKUs, but outside of that, breaking out something like an F-row can be a net positive for common keyboard users.
Adding them to the alphas would increase the price of that kit for everybody, even those who don't use F-keys. If the designer really needs to decrease total SKU count, they should add the F-rows into one of the sets supporting TKL and other row-staggered layouts.
Most alpha kits that include F-row kits are intended as alternatives to the default alphas, rather than here where there are two true core alpha kits.
Okay so a second alpha kit with an f row is a no go. But can we get a dual-color f row so that you wouldn't have to buy both f rows just so you can have them set up like the one shown in the renders?
Thanks for any help I know I'm being nooby.
That is also a no go ;). The whole point with running dual colorways is that people can mix and match if they want to, not force it on them. The function row kit will likely be pretty cheap so buying both shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise I'd have to offer BoW, WoB and TWO mixed sets (depending on which one u choose for mods). It seems pretty unreasonable imho.
Very interesting set but I can't get over the arrow keys. Those offset arrows look ... off.
This is a noob question cuz I am new to this hobby but how can I get into this Groupbuy?
I thought I had already posted this but can't find it in my posts; the numbers on the number row look too small and this looks especially bad next to the tertiary legends and ß in the NorDe kit.
Also, have you made up your mind on if you're going to include Colevrak+?
Please add Ergodox Kit and maybe mac icon modifiersTwo for Mac Icon Mods. This would allow an all-icon modifier set with the Icon Mods sets for Mac users (who are more likely to want icon mods on their bottom row).
I second that.Please add Ergodox Kit and maybe mac icon modifiersTwo for Mac Icon Mods. This would allow an all-icon modifier set with the Icon Mods sets for Mac users (who are more likely to want icon mods on their bottom row).
You don’t even need a second Mac set. I’d be happy to spend the money for both icons and text in the Mac set.
I second that.Please add Ergodox Kit and maybe mac icon modifiersTwo for Mac Icon Mods. This would allow an all-icon modifier set with the Icon Mods sets for Mac users (who are more likely to want icon mods on their bottom row).
You don’t even need a second Mac set. I’d be happy to spend the money for both icons and text in the Mac set.
Please add Ergodox Kit and maybe mac icon modifiersTwo for Mac Icon Mods. This would allow an all-icon modifier set with the Icon Mods sets for Mac users (who are more likely to want icon mods on their bottom row).
You don’t even need a second Mac set. I’d be happy to spend the money for both icons and text in the Mac set.
Heya!
For the OCE vendor, would it be possible to see Daily Clack! :D
Any chance we'll see an opposite colour tilde key with the alpha kits?
I second that.Please add Ergodox Kit and maybe mac icon modifiersTwo for Mac Icon Mods. This would allow an all-icon modifier set with the Icon Mods sets for Mac users (who are more likely to want icon mods on their bottom row).
You don’t even need a second Mac set. I’d be happy to spend the money for both icons and text in the Mac set.Please add Ergodox Kit and maybe mac icon modifiersTwo for Mac Icon Mods. This would allow an all-icon modifier set with the Icon Mods sets for Mac users (who are more likely to want icon mods on their bottom row).
You don’t even need a second Mac set. I’d be happy to spend the money for both icons and text in the Mac set.
Ergo and Mac mod icons are coming. Added in the todo list ;)
Heya!
For the OCE vendor, would it be possible to see Daily Clack! :D
Heya!
For the OCE vendor, would it be possible to see Daily Clack! :D
Heya!
For the OCE vendor, would it be possible to see Daily Clack! :D
^^
I don't know if you've already come to a conclusion on this but I wish you could make an alpha kit with the f row keys or at least a dual-color f row kit like the one in the render. Imo its seems kinda extra to take the time to make a kit only for the f row... I don't know if I'm just being nooby but it just doesn't seem all that necessary...
Edit: Please tell me if I'm being stupid or just correct me if I'm wrong.
For KAT, there is a downside to having too many SKUs, but outside of that, breaking out something like an F-row can be a net positive for common keyboard users.
Adding them to the alphas would increase the price of that kit for everybody, even those who don't use F-keys. If the designer really needs to decrease total SKU count, they should add the F-rows into one of the sets supporting TKL and other row-staggered layouts.
Most alpha kits that include F-row kits are intended as alternatives to the default alphas, rather than here where there are two true core alpha kits.
Okay so a second alpha kit with an f row is a no go. But can we get a dual-color f row so that you wouldn't have to buy both f rows just so you can have them set up like the one shown in the renders?
Thanks for any help I know I'm being nooby. :p
That is also a no go ;). The whole point with running dual colorways is that people can mix and match if they want to, not force it on them. The function row kit will likely be pretty cheap so buying both shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise I'd have to offer BoW, WoB and TWO mixed sets (depending on which one u choose for mods). It seems pretty unreasonable imho.
Two more things. Can we get a 1.5u \ key in the alphas? I feel it would be a waste to have to buy a whole separate mod set for one key... And is it possible to get a 6.25u spacebar in the alphas? I'm pretty sure every other KAT kit has had a spacebar in the alphas and I don't see why this set shouldn't have one either.
Please again. Tell me if I've been misled.
Hi All! Do we have an estimate timeline at the moment for the KAT Refined?
Can’t wait for GB. Happen to know ETA for release? Thanks
Two more things. Can we get a 1.5u \ key in the alphas? I feel it would be a waste to have to buy a whole separate mod set for one key... And is it possible to get a 6.25u spacebar in the alphas? I'm pretty sure every other KAT kit has had a spacebar in the alphas and I don't see why this set shouldn't have one either.
Please again. Tell me if I've been misled.
KAT Space Cadet doesn't have space in alphas ;)
Thank you for your suggestions though, I will go through the whole thread at a later stage when I am redoing the kits and give this another look. Big update will come later.
Timings depend a little bit on how the following KAT sets will turn out. I believe we have another one shipping soon. I have a date set already but don't want to communicate it until I know it will happen. It's not too far off though. More on this later.
Will we be able to purchase mixed units? Bow for modifiers and and WoB for alphas and vice versa?
Ergo and Mac mod icons are coming. Added in the todo list ;)
Hi All! Do we have an estimate timeline at the moment for the KAT Refined?Can’t wait for GB. Happen to know ETA for release? Thanks
Timings depend a little bit on how the following KAT sets will turn out. I believe we have another one shipping soon. I have a date set already but don't want to communicate it until I know it will happen. It's not too far off though. More on this later.
Looks really nice! Definitely in on this.
This set has endgame potential for me. 100% in.
Is there a chance for icon mods in the 40s/Ortho kits?
Is there a chance for icon mods in the 40s/Ortho kits?
Yes was actually planning to switch to icon instead.
Sidenote: I was told that light on dark was impossible when using dye-sublimation, unless you didn't care about totally muting/darkening the light color. Was I lied to or is there a risk that WoB might turn out kinda ugly?
Sidenote: I was told that light on dark was impossible when using dye-sublimation, unless you didn't care about totally muting/darkening the light color. Was I lied to or is there a risk that WoB might turn out kinda ugly?
Keyreative uses all-over dye sublimation, which involves dyeing the sides, as well as the top - the dark colour is dyed on top of the lighter colour.
Here's the samples I had for Lich:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dhyr8UL.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/r7I4asy.jpg)
You can see that all the colours other than the lightest purple are dyed on top of white.
Interesting. I didn't realize most were molded white and dyed twice. I was thinking the other three in your photo were molded yellow. Then the 2008C legend was standard dye-sub, and the other two all-over dye-sub (yellow legends being non-dyed resin).
Interesting. I didn't realize most were molded white and dyed twice. I was thinking the other three in your photo were molded yellow. Then the 2008C legend was standard dye-sub, and the other two all-over dye-sub (yellow legends being non-dyed resin).
I think it depends. The yellow-on-black novelties in KAM Starry Night, another Keyreative set, were produced the way you described.
Yeah, I enquired as to what was the deciding factor, but didn't get an answer. I wonder whether it's easier to achieve the correct purple on dyed yellow rather than actual yellow plastic? Not sure.
Can you add set F1 -F10 for ion zenith kb?You want a kit for ONE keyboard? Just get the F-row kit and deal with the fact that they’re all on one row. Even with a separate kit you’d still have to differentiate based on how you wanna order the keys. It’s unreasonable.
I think that’s right. Even in some of the Zenith renders, they show the macro columns decked out in all Rama custom aluminum keycaps (pretty pricey option, if you wanna go that route). Those are all gonna be R1 Cherry profile. If you think about it, the sculpt exist to make the keycaps more comfortable and intuitive to type on, but you don’t really “type” on the f-row.Can you add set F1 -F10 for ion zenith kb?You want a kit for ONE keyboard? Just get the F-row kit and deal with the fact that they’re all on one row. Even with a separate kit you’d still have to differentiate based on how you wanna order the keys. It’s unreasonable.
Something like the GMK Redacted novelties set may work too. It has extra redacted keys for exert row. Signature plastics also sells blanks and re-legendable keycaps that I think come in different row profiles. WASD will UV print you custom keycaps.I think that’s right. Even in some of the Zenith renders, they show the macro columns decked out in all Rama custom aluminum keycaps (pretty pricey option, if you wanna go that route). Those are all gonna be R1 Cherry profile. If you think about it, the sculpt exist to make the keycaps more comfortable and intuitive to type on, but you don’t really “type” on the f-row.Can you add set F1 -F10 for ion zenith kb?You want a kit for ONE keyboard? Just get the F-row kit and deal with the fact that they’re all on one row. Even with a separate kit you’d still have to differentiate based on how you wanna order the keys. It’s unreasonable.
If you’re dead set on having the right profile for those caps, take a look at MT3 Extended 2048. There are a bunch of different 1U icon keycaps for every row (Icono kit). Or pick up a KAM set. Don’t pass on this set, though!
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.
thanks this is great work
Wish there would be an accent kit and/or color mods in RGB and CMY - that would make the set even more versatile
Slated for October if everything goes smoothly, is the last I heard.
I have never used a Kat set. Are they super tall like SA or closer to GMK height? I personally hate the look of tall keycaps, and from what I can tell from the renders these don't look too tall, maybe 2mm higher than GMK.
I have never used a Kat set. Are they super tall like SA or closer to GMK height? I personally hate the look of tall keycaps, and from what I can tell from the renders these don't look too tall, maybe 2mm higher than GMK.This might give you an idea(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200714/b135ad7a72d318c1371e405e0c957b6f.jpg)
I would like to try KAT as well. How bad is spacebar warping issue with KAT? Or negligible?I have never used a Kat set. Are they super tall like SA or closer to GMK height? I personally hate the look of tall keycaps, and from what I can tell from the renders these don't look too tall, maybe 2mm higher than GMK.This might give you an ideaShow Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200714/b135ad7a72d318c1371e405e0c957b6f.jpg)
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I'm not sure, I grabbed the photo off Instagram a few days agoI would like to try KAT as well. How bad is spacebar warping issue with KAT? Or negligible?I have never used a Kat set. Are they super tall like SA or closer to GMK height? I personally hate the look of tall keycaps, and from what I can tell from the renders these don't look too tall, maybe 2mm higher than GMK.This might give you an ideaShow Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200714/b135ad7a72d318c1371e405e0c957b6f.jpg)
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I would like to try KAT as well. How bad is spacebar warping issue with KAT? Or negligible?
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.
thanks this is great work
Seconding.
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.
thanks this is great work
Seconding.
Thirding.
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.
thanks this is great work
Seconding.
Thirding.
Was slightly bummed that the split spacebar was in the orthos/40s kit render considering 2.25/2.75/7u users are mutually exclusive to ortho users [...]
2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.
Here we have the list with the results on the right side (ordered and non-ordered). What is marked green is what I already have (I included the split Ortho and 40s kits too) just so it becomes clearer what should be added.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OsJLeB6.jpg)
The ordered list on its own for clarityShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/USna4E5.jpg)
Let me know what you think of this list but I think it is pretty clear that a spacebar kit and Ergo kit is needed at the very least.
Oh I see, thanks for the clarification. Soz I'm still new to this but my point was it's a shame the spacebars and 40s are bundled together in the renders and that a dedicated 2.25/2.75/7u kit would be beneficial for catering to more people instead of only the 40%s you mentioned. They probs already sorted it tho considering their past message, guessing 2.25/2.75u included in both the spacebar and 40s kit?
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.
thanks this is great work
Seconding.
Thirding.
Fourthing, but I’m not sure how that can happen without the render files being made available to people who wish to do so. Without that, designers will need to first spend countless hours trying to copy Macsurfy’s work, and then spend whatever amount of hours will be necessary to create their own set from there. It’s more than double the work, so I’m not sure this will catch on organically.
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Was slightly bummed that the split spacebar was in the orthos/40s kit render considering 2.25/2.75/7u users are mutually exclusive to ortho users [...]
2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.
2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.
I have to disagree.
The same way F-row is its own kit, split spacebar should be one to for all the different types of keebs. I might be able to stretch that the 40s can have a 2u and a 4u spacebar.
Looking at what to do with the space kit currently. Feels like it would be a good idea actually to break out all the spacebars from the 40s and offer it as a separate kit. It makes for a pretty big kit though.
It would contain the following:
[...]
Alternartively leave 40s as is and do a "regular" spacebar kit with
[...]
yey, ney .. opinions?
The 40s kit should have the spacebars that are most common 40s layouts, namely 2x 2u, 2x 1.5u, 2x 2u, 1x 2.25u, and 1x 2.75u (I may be missing something). The spacebars kit should come with the weird spacebars, and potentially include a duplicate 6.25u and 7u spacebar so that 40s that do use those spacebars don't have to buy a modifiers kit to cover it.
And all the Alice an split-keyboard users?
Looking at what to do with the space kit currently. Feels like it would be a good idea actually to break out all the spacebars from the 40s and offer it as a separate kit. It makes for a pretty big kit though.
It would contain the following:
...
Alternartively leave 40s as is and do a "regular" spacebar kit with
...
Have they indicated when you will receive a sample?
For spacebar kit I also prefer the second option, the keys you listed look good with the only thing possibly being 2x 3u? It's not a common spacebar size but if offered might as well include 2x 3u since it seems most boards using 3u space have 3u/1u/3u layout.I agree that 2 x 1.5U Code and/or Sys keys would be great. Would also love to see a 1.5U Fn key for the bottom row.
Also, just noticed there are no 1.5u Code keys but there's a 1.5u Sys key in the Extra mods kit. This seems odd, as a single 1.5u Sys and 1u Win doesn't cover Tsangan bottom row. I think having a 2x 1.5u Code/ 1u Alt option before getting the 1.5u Sys makes sense, and also 2x 1u Win / 2x 1.5u Sys if offered instead of 1 of each.
Two more things. Can we get a 1.5u \ key in the alphas? I feel it would be a waste to have to buy a whole separate mod set for one key... And is it possible to get a 6.25u spacebar in the alphas?
Nice! You also in NL man? Really excited for this!
For spacebar kit I also prefer the second option, the keys you listed look good with the only thing possibly being 2x 3u? It's not a common spacebar size but if offered might as well include 2x 3u since it seems most boards using 3u space have 3u/1u/3u layout.
Also, just noticed there are no 1.5u Code keys but there's a 1.5u Sys key in the Extra mods kit. This seems odd, as a single 1.5u Sys and 1u Win doesn't cover Tsangan bottom row. I think having a 2x 1.5u Code/ 1u Alt option before getting the 1.5u Sys makes sense, and also 2x 1u Win / 2x 1.5u Sys if offered instead of 1 of each.
Did you ever decide to do Colevrak?
i am from belgium so i have to buy this :D
Really like this set
Did you ever decide to do Colevrak?
Yes. It has been made already. Uploading it here in a week or two.
Mah man. Count me in for many setsDid you ever decide to do Colevrak?
Yes. It has been made already. Uploading it here in a week or two.i am from belgium so i have to buy this :D
Really like this set
Thank you! :thumb:
Extra B key in kits, please!
Extra B key in kits, please!
This! Or any way we could separate the spacebars from the ortho kit? I'd have so many wasted keys if I needed the spacebars on an Alice
Extra B key in kits, please!
Two more things. Can we get a 1.5u \ key in the alphas? I feel it would be a waste to have to buy a whole separate mod set for one key... And is it possible to get a 6.25u spacebar in the alphas?
Why would u need that in the alphas? It is already in Mods, don't really see why you would move it.
Yes the 6.25u in Alphas is happening.
With the group buy scheduled for October, what would a realistic timeframe for delivery be?Summertime if we are lucky..
With the group buy scheduled for October, what would a realistic timeframe for delivery be?
— Candybar render is outdated. Will remain that way until I know what mods (icon or text) we're going with.Does this mean that the final GB will have only one option of mod kit (no matter which one eventually) instead all three of them?
Hi sorry is there a Discord server for this to have easier pages for updates/announcements/general feedback? Tried to look across the posts but couldn't find : )
Wow this is really very nice and refined. Will be my very 1st KAT set.
Would you be considering South East Asia vendors?
Is it possible to have a seperate Ortho kit? Just like KAT Hyperfuse? I don't need all those weird sized mods / space bars. Would be a somewhat cheaper as well for us dedicated ortho users. If I compare KAT hyperfuse with KAT atlantis.
Are the prices released for this?
Does this mean that the final GB will have only one option of mod kit (no matter which one eventually) instead all three of them?
Does this mean that the final GB will have only one option of mod kit (no matter which one eventually) instead all three of them?
Yes most likely. I don't think icon+text would even work for most of the 40S/Ortho keys so that one is out for sure which leaves us with two variants. I could possibly offer Text & Icon but since Ortho and 40S will be split we're looking at 8 (!) added kits. From my non-scientific research it seems most users prefer icon mods. So for the next update that is what is happening and we'll just have to take it from there and see if that sticks all the way to GB or not. Hope u understand, and feel free to react in the thread when the kits have been updated. Cheers!
Damn!! I really want Text mod would make it.Does this mean that the final GB will have only one option of mod kit (no matter which one eventually) instead all three of them?Yes most likely. I don't think icon+text would even work for most of the 40S/Ortho keys so that one is out for sure which leaves us with two variants. I could possibly offer Text & Icon but since Ortho and 40S will be split we're looking at 8 (!) added kits. From my non-scientific research it seems most users prefer icon mods. So for the next update that is what is happening and we'll just have to take it from there and see if that sticks all the way to GB or not. Hope u understand, and feel free to react in the thread when the kits have been updated. Cheers!
Damn!! I really want Text mod would make it.Does this mean that the final GB will have only one option of mod kit (no matter which one eventually) instead all three of them?Yes most likely. I don't think icon+text would even work for most of the 40S/Ortho keys so that one is out for sure which leaves us with two variants. I could possibly offer Text & Icon but since Ortho and 40S will be split we're looking at 8 (!) added kits. From my non-scientific research it seems most users prefer icon mods. So for the next update that is what is happening and we'll just have to take it from there and see if that sticks all the way to GB or not. Hope u understand, and feel free to react in the thread when the kits have been updated. Cheers!
I am aware that Icon mod seems like the most favorite option in the community but I just don't like it.
Just like a lot of people have mentioned in previous discussion since KAT doesn't really have a hard MOQ for single kit as long as the entire ordered amount reach a certain MOQ.
I hope that you could take that into consideration to make both Icon and Text mod available if Text mod isn't going to be the only option. :p
Thank you for the effort.
King regards.
Is it possible to have a seperate Ortho kit? Just like KAT Hyperfuse? I don't need all those weird sized mods / space bars. Would be a somewhat cheaper as well for us dedicated ortho users. If I compare KAT hyperfuse with KAT atlantis.
Yes, actually those kits are usually about half the price of the 40S kits so consider it done.
I am partial to GMK as well however the second I saw the black and white combinations with that key profile I was sold. This is the set I need for my Stormtrooper 2U Think6.5V2
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Yessssss!!!I am partial to GMK as well however the second I saw the black and white combinations with that key profile I was sold. This is the set I need for my Stormtrooper 2U Think6.5V2
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Doing the same thing with my stormtrooper think
Discord link is dead... can we get a new one?
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Thanks for that modification, I was just wondering about another one. Would it be possible to have an opposite color space bar in the ortho kit? (Perhaps everyone else would like it for their modifier kit as well) Most of my two-tone keyboards have a white alpha's with white spacebars and a different tone modifiers. Seems like a waste of money to buy two mod kits for just one space bar.
Thanks for that modification, I was just wondering about another one. Would it be possible to have an opposite color space bar in the ortho kit? (Perhaps everyone else would like it for their modifier kit as well) Most of my two-tone keyboards have a white alpha's with white spacebars and a different tone modifiers. Seems like a waste of money to buy two mod kits for just one space bar.
Sorry but that one isn't happening. Kits stay true to their color and by not adding everyones favourite accent key to pretty much all kit we can keep the prices down. On the flip side, I made Ortho its own kit thus slashing the price in half so you can have two for the same price as the old one :)
Something I still don't particularly understand is the separated F-row. I don't see how the savings for having it like this is worthwhile. I understand that 60% and 65% are very popular and F-rowless keyboards are on the rise. But parting the F-row which will end up costing an additional 10-15$ for a large segment of the community seems like a weird choice.
Also was the exact white that will be used mentioned?
Something I still don't particularly understand is the separated F-row. I don't see how the savings for having it like this is worthwhile. I understand that 60% and 65% are very popular and F-rowless keyboards are on the rise. But parting the F-row which will end up costing an additional 10-15$ for a large segment of the community seems like a weird choice.
Also was the exact white that will be used mentioned?
There is no added cost. People that need F-row will not pay more than they should, and people who don't need it won't have to waste their money on keys they have no use for. There is no downside to this.
I am receiving samples today so will show the selected white (and black) once I have decided on one and photos to go with it.
Something I still don't particularly understand is the separated F-row. I don't see how the savings for having it like this is worthwhile. I understand that 60% and 65% are very popular and F-rowless keyboards are on the rise. But parting the F-row which will end up costing an additional 10-15$ for a large segment of the community seems like a weird choice.
Also was the exact white that will be used mentioned?
There is no added cost. People that need F-row will not pay more than they should, and people who don't need it won't have to waste their money on keys they have no use for. There is no downside to this.
I am receiving samples today so will show the selected white (and black) once I have decided on one and photos to go with it.
Alright, Thanks that is good to know, have you requested quotes yet or is the kitting still not finalized?
Looking forward to seeing the samples and purchasing this in october
Got the samples today!
Both good and bad I would say. I ordered a bunch of different white and black caps but only got one batch of whites. Good part is that I am quite happy with it (It is the same as KAT Milkshake I believe). Small legends bleed quite a bit so that will have to be adjusted. Second good thing is that they look really good apart from the bleed. Will do more shots of the other caps later.
I will try to get new samples as fast as possible.
-Snip-
I'm sure it's not popular enough to warrant, but any chance of mono-legends for numbers and special characters?
I'm going to end up with 4-5 sets of BOW and WOB but I don't mind. This looks fantastic. Although can't decide if I'd use this instead of my ePBT GOK BOW or my GMK WOB...
I'm sure it's not popular enough to warrant, but any chance of mono-legends for numbers and special characters?
+1
I'm an XDA Canvas mono user and it solves a lot of compatibility issues whilst contributing to an even cleaner look.
Would be nice to have icon mods for control and options in the Mac kit.
^^^I also second that
^^^Seconded.
Was thinking about getting the GMK Minimal 2, but after seeing KAT Refined. Will have to change my mind and wait for this GB.Too true I’m in the same boat now
Can you change the nordeuk set into a noth and south kit like most kat sets have?
Anyone / OP know more about any improvements to QC with KAT sets? My understanding is that previous sets had QC problems, though I should stipulate that I have never personally owned a KAT set—only GMK. My biggest concern is that I've heard of issues with keycaps being crooked. It would drive me nuts if the keycaps were misaligned.
Would it be possible to offer an accent kit?
WoB escape, enter, spacebar for BoW and vice versa?
firstly, amazing work and definitely in regardless but a couple of questions:
1. any possibility of getting 2x 2.25U Shifts for us 660 layout users?
2. sorry if this was mentioned/discussed already - was it more popular to have the R4 End and Pgdn keys in the numpad kit rather than the mod kits? personally, i thought it would have made more sense to keep them in the mod kits?
3. (being greedy) some sets have included two Tab keys to be able to outfit two boards (obviously different layouts) with just one modifier kit (e.g. a standard ANSI and HHKB/tsangan). of course this is easier achieved with accent kits as they provide additional ESC and Enter keys. i noticed there are 3 different numpad Enters to match whichever style of mods. similarly, adding 3 styles of Tabs (and regular Enters) might make that kit more compelling to some? probably asking a lot, but is this something you might consider?
edit: or perhaps in the Extra Mods kit?
again, looking forward to the GB and appreciate you being so receptive to feedback!
Looking at the ortho and ergo kits my wishlist is as follows.
In the ortho kit:
1. 2x blank 1.5u R2.
Reason: probably the two most popular split ergo boards are the Corne and the Lily58, and these use 1.5u (alt 1.25u) keys for the thumbs. Usually these smaller split boards are grouped together with the ortho kit as they have 1u outer mods. See MT3 Susuwatari as an example. Or the MDA Big Bang ortho set. Currently you need both the ortho and the ergo kit two cover these boards (and they are very common).
2. 2x blank concave 1u (R1) and/or replace the lower/raise with double up/down arrows. Ideally also another 2x blank concave 1u R2.
Reason: In Planck style layouts people more often than not flip the raise/lower keys upside down. The keycap set bundled with the Planck has these keys as up/down arrow making it simple.
In general: adding a few blank keys would give a lot of flexibilityThanks for adding Colevrak, samples look okay as well. The colour I'd prefer as more like WS1.
About the 'ergo' kit, I think some things could be changed. The R2 bracket keys seem to be duplicates from the ones in the alpha kit, and the R2 PgUp and PgDn keys seem to be included twice in just this kit. And for the 1.5u keys, my priorities would in some cases be different. For example, the R3 Control key is something I've never seen, but a R3 1.5 Backspace and a R3 1.5 Backslash would both be pretty common, I think. R2 1.5 Enter would also make sense in my opinion. And for the bottom row, I'd personally prefer a 1.5 Sys or even a second 1.5 Control over the 1.5 Menu or Fn options, possibly the 1.5 Menu could be replaced.
What kits would I need for a Maja? Alphas + Mods?
Apparently a true French kit should have tertiary legends. So that has been added in now aswell but it will cost you two extra keys. Let me know if it is all good now :cool:French kit is ace, man! J’adore :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/4EXvCCs.jpg)
I'm sure it's not popular enough to warrant, but any chance of mono-legends for numbers and special characters?
If you covered all the numbers/punctuation in your alphas kit, that would be another reason for me to buy this over another similar GB ;)I'm sure it's not popular enough to warrant, but any chance of mono-legends for numbers and special characters?
How do people feel about this? Personally I love mono, just don't know if there is any interest for this.
08/11/2020
Ergo kits — Removed duplicate R2 PgUp & PgDn
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
Ergo kits — Added 2 x 1U convex keys
Ergo kits — Changed R1 1.5U Menu to Alt
Ergo kits — Changed R3 1.5U Control to Backspace
Ergo kits — Changed R2 1.5U Caps Lock to Enter
Ergo kits — Replaced 4 x R1 2U blanks to convex.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/n3wpKlj.jpg)
08/11/2020
Ergo kits — Removed duplicate R2 PgUp & PgDn
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
Ergo kits — Added 2 x 1U convex keys
Ergo kits — Changed R1 1.5U Menu to Alt
Ergo kits — Changed R3 1.5U Control to Backspace
Ergo kits — Changed R2 1.5U Caps Lock to Enter
Ergo kits — Replaced 4 x R1 2U blanks to convex.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/n3wpKlj.jpg)
Ergo set is now perfect. R3 backslash included in alphas kit so that's covered. Thank you for taking time to review and being flexible, fantastic work.
And text mods look great. If the text mod kit ends up in the GB, I'll definitely pick it up too.
salut!
French kits added.
I think it would be clean AF, just didn't know if you were concerned about Minimal 2 comparisons since they did it and "Minimal" is their theme. But I'd personally love it.
salut!
French kits added.
<3 <3 <3
Didn't expect that!
Is UK kit also planned ?
Basic ISO coverage is already available. Sure the UK one could be broken out, but so could many other things in the kits. The idea is not dead but there are a few things to consider with the requests coming in.
08/11/2020aren't the top bracket keys still duplicates of the brackets in the alphas? and I'd prefer System over Alt for the bottom row 1.5u key, I would never put Alt in a corner like that.
Ergo kits — Removed duplicate R2 PgUp & PgDn
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
Ergo kits — Added 2 x 1U convex keys
Ergo kits — Changed R1 1.5U Menu to Alt
Ergo kits — Changed R3 1.5U Control to Backspace
Ergo kits — Changed R2 1.5U Caps Lock to Enter
Ergo kits — Replaced 4 x R1 2U blanks to convex.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/n3wpKlj.jpg)
08/11/2020aren't the top bracket keys still duplicates of the brackets in the alphas? and I'd prefer System over Alt for the bottom row 1.5u key, I would never put Alt in a corner like that.
Ergo kits — Removed duplicate R2 PgUp & PgDn
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
Ergo kits — Added 2 x 1U convex keys
Ergo kits — Changed R1 1.5U Menu to Alt
Ergo kits — Changed R3 1.5U Control to Backspace
Ergo kits — Changed R2 1.5U Caps Lock to Enter
Ergo kits — Replaced 4 x R1 2U blanks to convex.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/n3wpKlj.jpg)
Looks great, def interested
Cant wait to buy both BoW and WoB sets. My wallet will be ready.
Your commitment to making this set as good as it can possibly be is really admirable. Thank you for all the time and effort!
This set is living up to its moniker.
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Totally agree to this!
I will probably will buy both wob and bow, if I have money. Or at least wob mods and bow alphas. This will be my first KAT profile keycaps
In for a sh*t ton of kits ;D
Thank you !
Any chance you can do an accent kit with esc, enter and possibly spacebar?
I want BoW with black enter and escapes. Sort of like the Kuro Shiro look.
Don't have to support all the compats, just the major ones like 60/65/75/TKL.
Well, I only need up to 5 keys. With KAT's kitting it's a little inefficient to get a whole mod kit ($50+) for just 5 keys.
Even if he combines both WoB and BoW accents (10 keys total) into one kit it'll still be cheaper than picking up a an extra mod kit.
I'm talking about these 5 keys in both BoW and WoB into one kit
(https://i.imgur.com/wEdkZLi.png) (https://i.imgur.com/wEdkZLi.png)
Well, I only need up to 5 keys. With KAT's kitting it's a little inefficient to get a whole mod kit ($50+) for just 5 keys.
Even if he combines both WoB and BoW accents (10 keys total) into one kit it'll still be cheaper than picking up a an extra mod kit.
I'm talking about these 5 keys in both BoW and WoB into one kit
(https://i.imgur.com/wEdkZLi.png) (https://i.imgur.com/wEdkZLi.png)
I see, while I still think its not necessary, I thought you wanted him to include accent keys in the main kits. This seems more reasonable but still.
I'm really looking forward to this. I never used a KAT profile before so this will be my first set. :thumb:
Just the number of dedicated kits is insane.
Really interested. When the GB goes live, when do you think do the vendors ship them out?
If I want to mix BoW alphas with WoB mods on Alice layout, my extra B would be black, so can the extra B be included in the alphas instead?
Have you considered vertically centering the up and down arrow legends to be consistent with the other modifiers, like they did with GMK Minimal 2? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107868.0
I find it more logical and pleasing to look at but I am not sure if there is a reason for them to be top-aligned.
Sorry if this has been discussed already, I tried searching for it but didn't find anything.
Thank you for making this! Just hope the QC issues with KAT are resolved in time
Any chance you can do an accent kit with esc, enter and possibly spacebar?
I want BoW with black enter and escapes. Sort of like the Kuro Shiro look.
Don't have to support all the compats, just the major ones like 60/65/75/TKL.
It works better for Minimal since it is Text mods only and they are always centered in height. I run three different Mod versions so it does not work as well in this case.
It works better for Minimal since it is Text mods only and they are always centered in height. I run three different Mod versions so it does not work as well in this case.
Thanks. What are the rules for when a mod should be centered? From what I can see, the icons for backspace, return, left, right, and command are centered, and the icons for caps lock, shift, up, and down are top-aligned. I appreciate the work your doing to refine the legends, I would just like to understand the design.
Please can you separate out the UK ISO kit?
So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd. So two things that I would not want to do in in Refined since that goes agains the overall concept of why Refined exists in the first place.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/CRMqnQO.jpg)
So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd. So two things that I would not want to do in in Refined since that goes agains the overall concept of why Refined exists in the first place.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/CRMqnQO.jpg)
I understand your vision. I just want to see I always love the mono look. Also in this render.
Anyway, the amount of effort you put in is truly commendable. I will definitely be joining for both BoW and monochrome look.
Edit: One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?
So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/CRMqnQO.jpg)
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2Are you sure you made this change? The bottom row keys are still labeled R1 in the kits.
Is there any reason why the icon mods WoB and BoW don't have a R2 1.75u control key in it while the text mods and text/icon mods do have one? Or did i miss some changes to the kit where it's already in there?
Is there any reason why the icon mods WoB and BoW don't have a R2 1.75u control key in it while the text mods and text/icon mods do have one? Or did i miss some changes to the kit where it's already in there?
Yes, the control icon is not offered in this set so that is why it is missing from the Icon mods kit.
I get the reasoning behind that. But then I'm screwed because love icons and have control and caps swapped. And now I basically have to buy the entire text/icons or text mods text kit just for 1 control key because icons is the only mods kit it's not included in.
I hope it's not too late, but it would be great if you can still add it in.
I get the reasoning behind that. But then I'm screwed because love icons and have control and caps swapped. And now I basically have to buy the entire text/icons or text mods text kit just for 1 control key because icons is the only mods kit it's not included in.
I hope it's not too late, but it would be great if you can still add it in.
To be fair, there is no bottom row Caps Lock key either. Also, the ⇩ icon is quite generic — there's nothing about it that inherently means “Caps Lock”, to be frank. I think you can use ⇩ as a Control key without any issues. Some sets (e.g. GMK Rouge (https://i.imgur.com/sknZVvz.png)) don't include (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=104955.msg2873733#msg2873733) R3 1.75u “Control” at all for this exact reason.
Here is my feedback for the kits. All row numbers are given using Keyreative's numbering scheme (R4 = number row, R1 = Shift and bottom row). It took a while to go through everything, so I hope it's not too late to make these adjustments :) In general, kits look good except for what's listed below.
Alphas kitsYes just like you say it is for mixing WoB, BoW. Since I do not have accent kits I want to at least make it simple/cheap to mix with the current setup.
- The 7u spacebar could be moved back to Mods.
- Sub-60% boards that use 7u are rare. I can think of just a couple: Cajal, Nightmare, The Ave. I may be missing one or two lesser-known boards, but I've checked with the 40% Discord and I think that's about all of them.
- It might therefore make sense to drop 7u from Alphas to make the kit lighter for the majority of 40s, ortho and ergo users who don't need that key.
- Note that this is not the case with 6.25u as there are many 40s boards that use this spacebar size.
- On the other hand, it has been pointed out (thanks eski) that it'd be good if 7u stayed in Alphas for purposes of mixing BoW alphas with WoB mods (and vice-versa).
- Action points: Optionally, move 7u spacebar from Alphas to Mods.
Mac kits
- It seems odd to include icon R1 ⌘ keys if the bottom row is always text-only.
- This would make the bottom row look like: Control, Option, ⌘, <space>, ⌘, Option, Control.
- Action points: If this isn't intended, remove R1 ⌘ keys from Mac.
Ergo kits
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2Are you sure you made this change? The bottom row keys are still labeled R1 in the kits.
- Most (all?) KAT sets with ergo kits so far have had the bottom row on the main clusters be R2.
- I believe this is so that the bottom row would be more comfortable to type on, and also so that it would be level with the R2 keys on the thumb clusters.
- Here is a photo (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/2c/fd/5e2cfdee6f3fba33d1eeccddbc7a1dbb.jpg) of an ErgoDox set that uses a R1 bottom row instead of R2 (granted, this is OEM profile). The bottom row sort of sticks out.
- Action points: Change bottom row labels from R1 to R2 in Ergo.
Legends & otherCorrect. Both ways are actually common but it is not so common to mix them. I did this to distinguish them from eachother but you are correct, they should be using one style. Will fix this.
- There is a typographical inconsistency between the double quote and apostrophe legends.
- The former uses curly quotes (”), while the latter uses a straight apostrophe (').
- I would suggest changing the double quotes to be straight ("), not only for consistency, but also because that's what the key outputs on all layouts.
- Action points: Change ” legends to ".
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- I would like to see System replace Code as the primary OS key legend in the mod kits (as is the case in 40s, Ortho and Ergo), but I understand if you don't want to change this as it's down to preference.
- My (semi-objective) reasons for suggesting this are outlined here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106412.msg2907621#msg2907621) (§3).
- Additionally, this would make all of the kits in the set consistent in their usage of System and Code keys. Consistency is good to have.
- Action points: If you do want to make the change, swap the places of Code and System legends in Mods and Extra Mods (using Sys for 1u keys).
...
Do you know if scooped homing keys exist in KAT profile ? Is that something you would consider ? I love them in GMK.
One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?
I was originally planning on switching out the barred homing keys for scooped (would not do both) but since I am not doing centered legends I think there will be too much distortion on the legends. Deep sculpted caps like KAT plus scooped is not a combination I think will work well in this case. It is not something I will have time to test out before the GB and I really doubt it will work (assumption) so it won't be offered this time. Sorry.
Do you know if scooped homing keys exist in KAT profile ? Is that something you would consider ? I love them in GMK.One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?
I was originally planning on switching out the barred homing keys for scooped (would not do both) but since I am not doing centered legends I think there will be too much distortion on the legends. Deep sculpted caps like KAT plus scooped is not a combination I think will work well in this case. It is not something I will have time to test out before the GB and I really doubt it will work (assumption) so it won't be offered this time. Sorry.
Ergo kits
Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2Are you sure you made this change? The bottom row keys are still labeled R1 in the kits.
- Most (all?) KAT sets with ergo kits so far have had the bottom row on the main clusters be R2.
- I believe this is so that the bottom row would be more comfortable to type on, and also so that it would be level with the R2 keys on the thumb clusters.
- Here is a photo (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/2c/fd/5e2cfdee6f3fba33d1eeccddbc7a1dbb.jpg) of an ErgoDox set that uses a R1 bottom row instead of R2 (granted, this is OEM profile). The bottom row sort of sticks out.
- Action points: Change bottom row labels from R1 to R2 in Ergo.
There seems to be some disagreements on this. So will hold off for now and try to get this sorted asap. If any Ergo users here agree or disagree please voice your opinion.
SEA proxy added!
Welcome HEXKeyboards.com ! Glad to have u along the ride.
Please can you separate out the UK ISO kit?
+1 for this.
The new renders are good, kit looks so clean, I can feel a lot of need for both WoB and BoW.
Yeah definitely support UK ISO being split out, pushes me in the way of KAT Monochrome if not
- It would be nice to have R4 = for Mac users and those who like to put equals on their numpads.
- Macs by default have R4 = on their keyboards.
- See the kit examples linked above for this as well.
- Action points: Add R4 1u = to Numpad.
Agreed. Too often the keysets' support for Macs ends with the modifiers. There are a few other differences, like the above. Also, media icons on the function row for example. I'd love to see those.
I will be working to get them in a perfect state of course and will share updates to the samples whenever I get them. And if I need to then we will do a third, fourth and fifth round of samples.This dedication to getting things right is super reassuring to me – without doubt I am in on this set. :)
Would be nice if have RGBY modifiers :rolleyes:
any chance to get a homing e into the colmak set?
Hey. Amazing design, I'm really looking forward to this next month. I was just wondering if there were any plans regarding alpha kits with hangul or japanese sublegends of some sort. Thanks.
I will be working to get them in a perfect state of course and will share updates to the samples whenever I get them. And if I need to then we will do a third, fourth and fifth round of samples.This dedication to getting things right is super reassuring to me – without doubt I am in on this set. :)
Just curious, what made you choose non-blank keys for the ergo kit? This seems to be common, but as an ergodox user myself I don't really understand it.
I have those keys mapped to all sorts of things on my ergodox, and I would assume that everyone maps theirs differently. Making a kit with legends that will actually match up with what the key is used for seems like kind of a futile effort.
With a blank set, there would be no need to have multiple variants of the same key, and I personally think that a blank key is better than a with a legend that doesn't match the function (maybe that's just me being crazy :P).
Do people just prefer the look of having legends even if they don't match the function?
Just curious, what made you choose non-blank keys for the ergo kit? This seems to be common, but as an ergodox user myself I don't really understand it.
I have those keys mapped to all sorts of things on my ergodox, and I would assume that everyone maps theirs differently. Making a kit with legends that will actually match up with what the key is used for seems like kind of a futile effort.
With a blank set, there would be no need to have multiple variants of the same key, and I personally think that a blank key is better than a with a legend that doesn't match the function (maybe that's just me being crazy :P).
Do people just prefer the look of having legends even if they don't match the function?
Interesting! Didn't know there was this much research done on topic. Oh well, I guess I'm in the minority then :). Good luck with the GB!
While I love the set, honestly WS2 seems nicer than the current colour? Who wants a darker white? Surprises me. It looks like WS2 fits the E-white board you have either rendered or taken a photo of better than the current colour. Like in the renders, that definitely looks like more of a WS2 white to me. I am colourblind though, so maybe someone else can comment?
While I love the set, honestly WS2 seems nicer than the current colour? Who wants a darker white? Surprises me. It looks like WS2 fits the E-white board you have either rendered or taken a photo of better than the current colour. Like in the renders, that definitely looks like more of a WS2 white to me. I am colourblind though, so maybe someone else can comment?
WS1, in my eyes, is not a "subtle cream".
I personally think it fits way better on an e-white board than WS2, for example.
WS1 is still considered "white", just not as "cold" as WS2.
Here's an example of WS1 (GMK Minimal) on an e-white Polaris:Show Image(https://i.redd.it/2h7kt5ie8cq41.jpg)
I think that fits wonderful.
Agree. E-white finishes can vary from manu to manu and from keyboard to keyboard, but in my experience it's usually closer to WS1 than WS2. I think Keyreative's stock white (the one used in KAT Alpha and KAT Milkshake) might be an even better match to your average e-white finish than WS1 is.
Not sure if this has been asked, but what is the difference between KAT Refined and KAT Monochrome?Blasphemy .
They both pretty much look the same to me.
Not sure if this has been asked, but what is the difference between KAT Refined and KAT Monochrome?
They both pretty much look the same to me.
Not sure if this has been asked, but what is the difference between KAT Refined and KAT Monochrome?
They both pretty much look the same to me.
Very stoked for this. Also, very happy to see 2x 3u in the spacebar kit!
Well it definitely looks like I'm in!
While I love the set, honestly WS2 seems nicer than the current colour? Who wants a darker white? Surprises me. It looks like WS2 fits the E-white board you have either rendered or taken a photo of better than the current colour. Like in the renders, that definitely looks like more of a WS2 white to me. I am colourblind though, so maybe someone else can comment?
I think many prefer WS1 to WS2. For GMK the option (WS2) has been around forever but so far only two (?) sets have used it (of which one has not been delivered yet) so at least that tells me something. That was not the deciding factor though but WS2 will be harder to match with e-white since the many of them actually have a bit yellow in them rather than being white with a blue tone. You should not stare at renders to make that call but look at physical caps and boards, in real life. The GMK WS2 I have at home does not fit my e-white board. It looked like someone bleached half their teeth and forgot the rest ;D
What I chose is between ws1 and ws2. It's a very neutral white. I think it looks great on Milkshake personally.
Not sure if this has been asked, but what is the difference between KAT Refined and KAT Monochrome?
They both pretty much look the same to me.
:confused:
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IQb2fzv.jpg)
First prices have been added. Will continue to update on the front page as I get the others.
what does 54K MOQ mean? i dont believe its 54 thousand MOQ
I wish there was options for mixed color F row keys without having to order both black and white sets. Yes, a quibble. I want to mix the two colors like the photo on the website shows. :cool:
oh, that's interesting. thanks for answering!what does 54K MOQ mean? i dont believe its 54 thousand MOQ
It is. The way that Keyreative MOQs work is based on the total number of keys/units ordered. Every kit has a unit count (1u + 2u + 6.25u + ...). 54k means the minimum order quantity for the set to be produced is 54 thousand units.
Among other things, the lack of per-kit MOQs is what makes it feasible for sets to include kits for obscure layouts that you don't usually see in other profiles.
It would be cool to see other KAT profile sets with this font in different colorways
It would be cool to see other KAT profile sets with this font in different colorways
Here to +1 this idea. I like the colorway of refined, but am absolutely in love with the font and non-center letters.
Why i can' t find them on MyKeyboard? :'(
This is my first time buying a key cap set. I have a 65% Varmilo board so the only kits I'll need are alphas and mods, correct?