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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 September 2013, 04:57:50

Title: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 September 2013, 04:57:50
So there's a headphone thread, let's talk about amps and DACs a bit, too.

And by talk, I mean we'll start with a scenario to discuss:

Headphones used: JH13pro, HE400, HE500, HD600 and k701

Music: Ecclectic mix of everything in flac

Most of the time, a Fiio x3 is used for music transport/amping.  What's the sub $500 recommendation for an amp while using this as DAC (I'm going to eliminate the o2 for a couple of personal choice based reasons)? 

Asgard 2 for the low/high gain switch? 

Are there others that would make a better sound at a similar or better price? 

My personal feeling are as long as the power is clean and enough for the end devices being used, DACs might matter more than the amplifier.  And to that...

Say that we're still around that $500 range?  More or less lie about the budget and pick up a DAC-it (cheapest found $350) and say that Asgard 2 mentioned before to bring us to the total of $600 which is in the range of 500?  Do we go for the stack and go Asgard 2 with a Bifrost with USB upgrade and hit $700?

Are there better, non-tube based, options?  (Again, personal reasons)

Honestly, I keep waffling between just picking up an Asgard 2 to power everything and use the DAC in the X3 or get a dedicated "sitting" DAC to go with the "sitting" amp and bounce between the DAC-it and Bifrost with upgrades.

I don't intend for this to be a one-shot and die, either.  I'd like this to jump off into discussions about amps/dacs in general and why you chose what you use.

 ----

Personal reasons for no objective anything: I don't agree with NWAVGUY's business practices and how he finagled the numbers he did out of the Objective stuff (both amp and DAC).  Therefore, I don't want to talk about circulating money based on his designs.  Others can expand their opinions on it as I know dorkvader and mkawa have similar opinions to me and jwaz is completely opposed to them.  They're mine and that's kinda it.

Personal reasons for no tube stuff:  A lot less serious here, but I live in Texas and it's quite hot.  My A/C is also not the most brilliant and struggles to keep up with what little heat output I do have in electronics, so there's that.  Also, I know if I start with tube amps, I'll be elbow deep in tubes to roll before I realize what I did.  That's not to say they have no place in the thread, just no place in this first discussion as they won't be considered.

Alrighty guys, let's get this show on the road.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Sun, 01 September 2013, 10:09:53
Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 September 2013, 13:34:57
Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.

Not off topic at all to me.  I would let kawa or dv weigh in at this point so it doesn't seem like I'm just railing against the guy. 

Also, the cheap schiit combo (magni/modi) has a similar sound, matches better and can be had for cheaper to a similar price. Depending of course on if you go diy on the o2 and what kind of a used deal you can get on the magni/modi.  It also supports a company I'm slowly starting to like more and more as I research their stuff.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Sun, 01 September 2013, 13:49:36
Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.

Not off topic at all to me.  I would let kawa or dv weigh in at this point so it doesn't seem like I'm just railing against the guy. 

Also, the cheap schiit combo (magni/modi) has a similar sound, matches better and can be had for cheaper to a similar price. Depending of course on if you go diy on the o2 and what kind of a used deal you can get on the magni/modi.  It also supports a company I'm slowly starting to like more and more as I research their stuff.

I dunno much about the different companies as I'm not really into audio gear all that much(yet), but I do remember there being an incident with Schiit where one of their amps were nearly breaking headphones or something, and it took excessive complaining and ruckus to get them to admit that it was an issue, at first they just said everything was fine and as it should be. Like I said, there might be more to this than I know, but that doesn't really look like a good thing to me.

edit: don't take it the wrong way, I'm not looking to bash on anyone here, I'm just interested in audio gear even if I don't really have much myself yet, and would like to get more into it. Considering how normal sighted tests are in the audio business, I'm interested in seeing the picture painted when the actual facts are laid out.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 01 September 2013, 13:55:36
Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.

Not off topic at all to me.  I would let kawa or dv weigh in at this point so it doesn't seem like I'm just railing against the guy. 

I'm also very curious about this.  I've heard mention of it in passing, but never an entire story as to why people dislike the guy or his products.  Do you just dislike him, or his products too?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 September 2013, 14:02:05
Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.

Not off topic at all to me.  I would let kawa or dv weigh in at this point so it doesn't seem like I'm just railing against the guy. 

Also, the cheap schiit combo (magni/modi) has a similar sound, matches better and can be had for cheaper to a similar price. Depending of course on if you go diy on the o2 and what kind of a used deal you can get on the magni/modi.  It also supports a company I'm slowly starting to like more and more as I research their stuff.

I dunno much about the different companies as I'm not really into audio gear all that much(yet), but I do remember there being an incident with Schiit where one of their amps were nearly breaking headphones or something, and it took excessive complaining and ruckus to get them to admit that it was an issue, at first they just said everything was fine and as it should be. Like I said, there might be more to this than I know, but that doesn't really look like a good thing to me.

I only know the side of that as told by nwavguy myself, so I take the "excessive complaining" and whatnot with a grain of salt considering they did offer a repair (or even a return option, if I remember correctly) once the turn off issue came out.  Keep in mind that was also just over 3 years ago and it's been the only bump in the road that I've been able to find.

Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.

Not off topic at all to me.  I would let kawa or dv weigh in at this point so it doesn't seem like I'm just railing against the guy. 

I'm also very curious about this.  I've heard mention of it in passing, but never an entire story as to why people dislike the guy or his products.  Do you just dislike him, or his products too?

I don't know enough about him personally to make a judgement, but from what DV and mkawa have told me, it sounds like he's one of those that I wouldn't get along with.

I love the idea of his product(who doesn't like open source DIY) and at one point had planned to build one myself until I had a discussion with mkawa about how he got the math to work and how fine of a razor's edge everything seemed to be running on. 

I also think the DAC is a touch overpriced and that's something I can't DIY because of the chipset involved.

This seems super wishy-washy now, but I don't know if dislike is the right word for why I vetoed them in my quest for amping solutions or if it's more wanting to hear non-O2/ODAC options, in full disclosure.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 01 September 2013, 14:25:29
I have had huge issues with the microphone input of my Essence STX. The output from it was great though. I did want to fix the whole input issue for a while though, and leaned towards replacing it since I was unable to find a fix. I recently built the O2+ODAC which imo sounds very similar to the STX with the intent of replacing the STX so I am curious about these thoughts on the Objective combo. It is a DAC+amplifier, so it won't help me with the ADC end which is the one I had problems with, but since it is separate it allows me to select a solution there which the STX didn't. Anyways, I have yet to decide if I should keep the STX or the O2+ODAC and what to do about the ADC problem so curious about what you mentioned on it.

To clarify the input issues:
-I have yet to find a mic which doesn't require mic boost to reach decent sound levels.
-My mobo's mic input has a low SNR, and  mic boost which increases the noise to unbearable levels.
-The STX has fantastic SNR and the noise is pretty quiet even when mic boost is turned on. An issue with a different type of noise does however occur as it pics of some HEAVY interference from the GPU. The frequency of this interference is directly linked with the amount of frames per second pushed by the GPU. Examples (http://www.mediafire.com/play/gy39w20ddfjr933/white_noise.mp3) of this Xonar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0zuD0c0SRQ) issue
-I have tried every solution I could find except switching MOBO, PSU, GPU, solder caps to the STX's power connector, create/extend EMI shield and I would rather not mod the card or rebuild a majority of the rig, although I have considered it for the past year.

There are people who achieve decent sound input from $3 USB sound cards with random mics so that is where I am headed. They aren't great, but they sure surpass the STX in that regard. Sort of leaning towards a cheapo input solution+STX or cheapo input solution+O2+ODAC.

That became way more extensive than I intended. Thoughts on O2+ODAC could sway me into keeping the STX instead and selling the O2+ODAC with a decent profit since I built it myself for far less than a pre-built one costs.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: AKIMbO on Sun, 01 September 2013, 14:39:14
I'm interested to see what others are using too.  I'm currently eyeing a lyr and bifrost stack or vallhalla and bifrost stack.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Halverson on Sun, 01 September 2013, 15:00:48
Currently using just my xonar essence stx. But after trying my buddies aune amp/DAC I decided to start stepping up my audio gear.
Just bought the bottlehead crack/speedball kit from massdrop. Also planning on building the pupDAC.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 September 2013, 17:13:59
Another option I'm thinking about is to use the IEMs with the x3 and then get something dedicated for the HE/HD phones like the emotiva mini x a100 and either a bifrost or dac-it to pair with it.

Dunno if that will be what I decide, but it's got some great recommendations as the he500s seem to excel with that amp.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 02 September 2013, 12:48:32
To update:

I decided that I didn't need a desktop amp to drive my JH13pros as they're drove just fine off of the x3 I have and got a modi/magni stack from company that might trigger the adult language sensor.

So consider question one to be hypothetical only now.  Pics and impressions soon.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Mon, 02 September 2013, 13:28:14
(http://i.imgur.com/cKzSg8i.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 02 September 2013, 14:07:28
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/cKzSg8i.jpg)


I was thinking of making mine red with black face plate but finally ended up deciding all black. Yours look more distinguished and unique with the colours you chose.

Are the holes in the front plate countersunk? Looking nice other than those screws which bug me a bit.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 02 September 2013, 14:35:08
I've had the chance to use a CMoy, a Fiio e10, and a Fiio e17. I liked the CMoy and Fiio e17 the most. My thoughts on the CMoy (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43312.0) were recorded in a review. I really enjoyed the e17 but I only had a few days to try it out (Thank you TJ) and I didn't get a chance to write a review.

I recently got my hands on a Cavalli CTH amplifier (Thank you gopanthersgo1) and I'm really looking forward to trying it. When it's finally built, I'll post a review.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Mon, 02 September 2013, 14:37:49
I was thinking of making mine red with black face plate but finally ended up deciding all black. Yours look more distinguished and unique with the colours you chose.

Are the holes in the front plate countersunk? Looking nice other than those screws which bug me a bit.

Thanks, I really like the anodized blue. The front plate has nothing done to it, it's the standard one from JDS labs. And I agree, the screws kinda mess up the look. I think I might buy black ones.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Moosecraft on Mon, 02 September 2013, 15:39:04
Chiming in a bit here.

First of all I think Schiit audio have a great line of products and they have really earned their praises. Even though I haven't heard their flagship Mjolnir/Gungnir in a proper combo I haven't been disappointed in any of their products.

About nvawguy, he is generally not liked among head-fi members because they think he takes audio far to objective. Since audio is a very subjective hobby with everything being different for each individual most people were outraged when he claimed his 100 $ amp was just as good as their 1500 $ amps because they measured the same. As a result he was banned on head-fi and is now like their voldemort (lol).

Personally I think there is both an objective and a subjective side to audio, much like user Purrin from head-fi. He also runs his own forum called changstar.com which doesn't have the "head-fi hypetrains".

Finally damorgue, the biggest flaw of the objective combo is that the odac requires more power than a normal usb port can give, so unless you get a powered usb hub its not a wonder its hardly better than yout stx.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Doltoid on Mon, 02 September 2013, 15:44:03
Pardon me if this is slightly off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me on the facts about what NWAvGuy did wrong? From what I've read I quite like his efforts to make sure that facts are presented accurately and whatnot.
Genuinely curious, because from what I've seen so far the o2 and odac both seem like some of the best options out there, but I've mostly just seen one side to this, so I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story.

So-called self-proclaimed audiophiles hate logic as it brings too much reality into the equation for their vacuum tube saturated brains to handle.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Mon, 02 September 2013, 15:51:49
Chiming in a bit here.

First of all I think Schiit audio have a great line of products and they have really earned their praises. Even though I haven't heard their flagship Mjolnir/Gungnir in a proper combo I haven't been disappointed in any of their products.

About nvawguy, he is generally not liked among head-fi members because they think he takes audio far to objective. Since audio is a very subjective hobby with everything being different for each individual most people were outraged when he claimed his 100 $ amp was just as good as their 1500 $ amps because they measured the same. As a result he was banned on head-fi and is now like their voldemort (lol).

Personally I think there is both an objective and a subjective side to audio, much like user Purrin from head-fi. He also runs his own forum called changstar.com which doesn't have the "head-fi hypetrains".

Finally damorgue, the biggest flaw of the objective combo is that the odac requires more power than a normal usb port can give, so unless you get a powered usb hub its not a wonder its hardly better than yout stx.


Fair enough, I will agree that he does seem a bit over-zealous, but the point that it's hard to claim that hifi gear is good when it doesn't really measure well still seems like a good point to me. Obviously going by measurements alone is silly, but it's also silly to disregard the fact that your expectations and desires can skew reality somewhat, so having measurements will help you determine if what you're buying is made to the high quality specs the manufacturer claims. And in audio gear it's often a significant amount of money being thrown around, so designing by ear and then just slapping on the measurements they think are correct is not appropriate practice. And of course nothing is stopping you from buying the gear you want, if you like the sound of product X the best despite knowing its drawbacks, why not go for it?

Although he also makes a fair point that oftentimes you can get the sound you're after by getting the most objective equipment you can and then colouring the sound the way you want with an equalizer, although I can see how that will make it harder to justify buying more gear, which is what the hobby is all about for many.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Moosecraft on Mon, 02 September 2013, 15:58:04
I totally agree, because going by measurements takes out the subjective factor it is often more help when looking for headphones unless its a reviewer who has reviewed a lot of stuff that you have heard yourself and you have found yourself agreeing with said reviewer on lost occasions. However in the end its a subjective hobby and something that measures perfectly might sound awful to you.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Mon, 02 September 2013, 16:00:29
I totally agree, because going by measurements takes out the subjective factor it is often more help when looking for headphones unless its a reviewer who has reviewed a lot of stuff that you have heard yourself and you have found yourself agreeing with said reviewer on lost occasions. However in the end its a subjective hobby and something that measures perfectly might sound awful to you.

True, but like I said, if it measures perfect then there should (in theory, from what I understand) be no problem with just using a good equalizer, such as the fb2k equalizer, to make it sound like you want to, as from what I have seen it has no impact on sound quality at all.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 02 September 2013, 16:42:27
One thing I have noticed is that the most transparent and objective setups tend to cause fatigue in my case. Too much detail and fast rise and fall of sound, while technically good and accurate, strains the ears and I am unable to listen to it for as long as a technically less accurate setup. Although I like it, if I want to listen for extended periods of time, the better setups aren't as suitable. This is more complex than just an equalizer which changes volume on frequency bands, but rather for instance a faster rise and fall of pressure waves and similar factors which I am unaware of which make the sound more straining.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: pandather on Mon, 02 September 2013, 23:57:41
I've had the chance to use a CMoy, a Fiio e10, and a Fiio e17. I liked the CMoy and Fiio e17 the most. My thoughts on the CMoy (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43312.0) were recorded in a review. I really enjoyed the e17 but I only had a few days to try it out (Thank you TJ) and I didn't get a chance to write a review.

I recently got my hands on a Cavalli CTH amplifier (Thank you gopanthersgo1) and I'm really looking forward to trying it. When it's finally built, I'll post a review.
no problem man!  also, on the subject, I'd say the magni wou
d be my favorite for the price, or, actually this super special un released beta amp ultra portable type thingy.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 03 September 2013, 00:30:54
I'm personally all for subjectivity as far as end chain devices (speakers, headphones, etc) go - those can definitely shape the sound differently for different tastes, and not even to mention the minor things like wearing comfort and aesthetics. However even before nwavguy came along, I was and still am a strict proponent of the scientific method where it comes to anything before that in that chain. His work just further drove the point home, I think. It's significantly simpler to ABX source components than it is to headphones for example. It has always frustrated me seeing the lack of such standards in audio, and how companies prey upon the lack of rigorous standards with ludicrous claims and equally ludicrous prices.

To that end, I find it a little sad and ironic that there are claims to monetary or other business infidelity (whether factual or not) being lobbed into the nwavguy camp, all the while we have multithousand dollar devices with silly markups over the actual component cost and extremely questionable sound quality difference over vanilla onboard when ABXed, being awarded top rewards in magazines and crowed over on forums as the cure for cancer.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 15:42:18
HAPPY TJ?!?!?

this market is a mess, by the way. build a classic jung multi-loop design with a good OPA and buffer at the center and just be done with it.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:27:40
HAPPY TJ?!?!?

this market is a mess, by the way. build a classic jung multi-loop design with a good OPA and buffer at the center and just be done with it.

Quite.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: davkol on Wed, 11 September 2013, 14:26:01
I just want to leave a small warning here. If you're using GNU/Linux and want a better, but still portable soundcard for your laptop, beware of Asus Xonar U3. There's some (supposedly fixed, but not really) bug in ALSA that makes the headphones output ridiculously loud. In case you're using PulseAudio, sound is muted unless you hit something like 23/100, and then it just explodes, leaving you nearly deaf. It should be fixed by applying a patch that should do something to SPDIF, I haven't tried that yet though. There's a similar issue in MS Windows [Vista] out of the box, I had to install official drivers.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Wed, 11 September 2013, 14:56:08
I have a set of ath-ad700's with a mixamp. works really well but currently looking at getting a soundblaster z soundcard.
I actually have a discussion thread open on another site about my setup and requirements.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681067/fps-gaming-realtek-alc892-optical-mixamp-2013-ad700
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Wed, 11 September 2013, 15:00:27
either way I still want to hire you to sleeve my mic cable and headphones cables together :D
I am only finalizing the rest of my setup first.

the modmic is amazing btw.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Thu, 12 September 2013, 23:23:22
alright gentlemen, here is the deal.

i like bass. my speakers are crapping out so i think i want to go headphone exclusive with the option of adding some monitors later on.

right now i have this:
(http://i.imgur.com/e3yX2gZ.jpg)

but i want a nice desktop amp/dac so i can use my fiio e17 at work with (hopefully) some SE215.

so, looking at a set up at around 500. the cheaper the better.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 13 September 2013, 00:15:04
Now that I've used it a fair amount, there's no hesitation with recommending the modi/magni combo.  $200 and you're finished.

(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Bento/IMG_0936_zps072363b4.jpg~original) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Bento/IMG_0936_zps072363b4.jpg.html)'

Plus, look at that combo. 

From there, if you're looking something that will drive powered speakers later and headphones now, I think the e09k dock is extremely solid and you can just use your e17 with it and save some cash that way.  I know massdrop has them from time to time, but they're easily attained from a few different places.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Fri, 13 September 2013, 00:20:45
200 i can do
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 13 September 2013, 00:27:48
Now that I've used it a fair amount, there's no hesitation with recommending the modi/magni combo.  $200 and you're finished.

(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Bento/IMG_0936_zps072363b4.jpg~original) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Bento/IMG_0936_zps072363b4.jpg.html)'

Plus, look at that combo. 

From there, if you're looking something that will drive powered speakers later and headphones now, I think the e09k dock is extremely solid and you can just use your e17 with it and save some cash that way.  I know massdrop has them from time to time, but they're easily attained from a few different places.

Holy cow, that thing is beautiful... When I finally decide on a headphone, I'm definitely going to have to save up for that thing...
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Namenlos on Sat, 14 September 2013, 10:00:08
As this is advertised as an general Headphone Amp/DAC Thread. I can recommend the O2 ODAC Combo for everyone. 130€ including tax, case, faceplate and shipping in Europe, if you are ok with soldering it yourself, drilling the back and have an old (with transformer) 12V-15V DC or AC wall psu laying around. A steal for that good combo, portable and in one case. If you are ok with two enclosures you can even save 40€ by using the uca202 line out instead of the odac.

If you don't like nwavguy thats fine, he doesn't make any money on that. Just don't want to use his designs, because defending his views on design and angering head-fi, sounds stupid to me.

I simply would not put any trust in Shiits engineering capabilities after the incident. That was a rookie mistake and they even tried to talk it down. Also all that voodoo class a jazz on their site is a big no to me. I don't visit doctors who advertise ion treatment etc., why should I buy products advertising voodoo?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 14 September 2013, 14:13:33
As this is advertised as an general Headphone Amp/DAC Thread. I can recommend the O2 ODAC Combo for everyone. 130€ including tax, case, faceplate and shipping in Europe, if you are ok with soldering it yourself, drilling the back and have an old (with transformer) 12V-15V DC or AC wall psu laying around. A steal for that good combo, portable and in one case. If you are ok with two enclosures you can even save 40€ by using the uca202 line out instead of the odac.

I think Head n' Hifi sells them in EU for that amount, and there is no need to drill anything and you get a transformer with it. You can even select the colour of your choice for each part of the case and you get a selection of resistors to choose gain as well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Namenlos on Sun, 15 September 2013, 05:26:36
For that amount you don't get a transformer with it iirc. And you have to drill the back for the ODAC inputs. If you are ok with sacrificing the battery option you can also use a backplate for not even 5€, if you want to put the ODAC below the batteries and the PCB you need to drill it yourself afaik.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 15 September 2013, 07:00:00
I got mine from there and you do get a transformer along with multiple back plates.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sun, 15 September 2013, 08:21:52
Pssst, I am currently selling my Little dot MK IV SE (http://www.head-fi.org/t/680824/little-dot-mk-iv-se-m8161-6h30pi) and peachtree dacit (http://www.head-fi.org/t/680876/peachtree-dac-it-teralink-psu) on head-fi if anyone is interested! I am upgrading to a audio-gd nfb10-es2, which I will be receiving tomorrow!

I've tried both the modi and the odac and they are both really great dacs for their prices. I actually haven't tried either the magni or the o2 amps, but they are recommended quite often on head-fi. I prefer tube amps when using high impedance headphones though. The little dot mk iii and mk IV SE are great options for tube amps, with many tube rolling options to tweak the sound. For the even more budget oriented people, I recommend the hifimediy dac (http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=123) and its variations (they even have an android version!)

I can wholeheartly recommend the uha-6s mkii  (http://www.leckertonaudio.com/products/uha-6s-mkii)w/ ADA4627 as a portable/transportable amp. Modded with -12db, the uha6s can drive both my UERMs and hd600s, as well as other headphones that I have tried with it. Its dac section is mediocre, but is at least better than onboard sound. I can also recommend the headstage arrow (http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-4N/4T/Headstage-Arrow-4N::10144.html?XTCsid=971acd7271d8b84b8ec367cf68560a0b) for those lookling for an ultra portable amp with great features to use with their daps. I am actually also selling my headstage arrow 4g (http://www.head-fi.org/t/681207/headstage-arrow-4g) on head-fi.

I don't like the asgard 2. It runs very hot. perhaps even hotter than my little dot mk IV SE did during the summer. I bought it and returned it within schiit's 2 week policy. I tested it out with the hd600, hd650, t70, and UERMs. WIth the UERMs, the asgard 2 was quite bright even after some burn in time. While it did a decent job driving the hd600 and hd650, it didn't do as well as my little dot mk iv se did. The soundstage and instrument seperation were not as good. The bass was also not as impactful or deep with the little dot.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Namenlos on Sun, 15 September 2013, 08:31:58
Depending on what you order. That was the order of my brother (I had a case lying around, so I did not need it):

O2 Headphone Amplifier Parts only Kit   O2 Headphone Amplifier Parts only Kit
KIT-O2-PARTS
20.98€

Objective DAC (ODAC) - board only Version   Objective DAC (ODAC) - board only Version
OBJ-DAC-board
80.77€

O2 Headphone Amplifier PCB   O2 Headphone Amplifier PCB
PCB-O2-V2.1-RED
4.00€

Case 108 x 84 x 30   Case 108 x 84 x 30
HNH-10080
9.66€

O2 Front Panel   O2 Front Panel
PANEL-O2-FRONT
4.00€

Total:   119.41€ (about $160)

You can take the full kit with batteries, drilled backplate and psu for about 18€ more. But as I wanted to put the ODAC under the O2 (for the possibility of battery use and ODAC in the same case) I could not use the backplate, I had a 12V DC psu and batteries laying around so I did not need that too (with a bit of soldering to make the dc psu an ac one).
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Sun, 15 September 2013, 19:53:26
I wanted to share that my purchase of a soundblaster Zx soundcard was well worth it.
Sounds in CS:GO and CSS now have perfect positioning and have never sounded better.
ATH-AD700 + Soundblaster Z = Amazing FPS Gaming!

Sure it is not on the level of the stuff you guys are discussing but it improved my gameplay 10x
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Sun, 15 September 2013, 20:06:35
I wanted to share that my purchase of a soundblaster Zx soundcard was well worth it.
Sounds in CS:GO and CSS now have perfect positioning and have never sounded better.
ATH-AD700 + Soundblaster Z = Amazing FPS Gaming!

Sure it is not on the level of the stuff you guys are discussing but it improved my gameplay 10x

I remember talking to you about all this about tw weeks back but holy crap! I nevet knew it'd make that much improvement! I will look forward to discussing this with you on mumble sometime :)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 23 September 2013, 18:30:41
I got a used asgard/bifrost over the weekend.  It's good stuff.  Drives these hd600 I got rather well.  Hopefully it does the same with the other pairs I have coming.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 23 September 2013, 18:34:30
I got a used asgard/bifrost over the weekend.  It's good stuff.  Drives these hd600 I got rather well.  Hopefully it does the same with the other pairs I have coming.

How much did you pay for it? Bro, you need to go balanced with the hd600s.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 23 September 2013, 18:50:51
I got a used asgard/bifrost over the weekend.  It's good stuff.  Drives these hd600 I got rather well.  Hopefully it does the same with the other pairs I have coming.

How much did you pay for it? Bro, you need to go balanced with the hd600s.

$400 shipped for the whole set up.  I have the parts coming to make a balanced cable.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:02:41
What balanced amp/dac are you planning to get in the future? I can't recommend the audio-gd stuff enough, they're ridiculous for the price. The NFB-10ES2 "unveiled" my hd600s, so to say.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:24:04
What balanced amp/dac are you planning to get in the future? I can't recommend the audio-gd stuff enough, they're ridiculous for the price. The NFB-10ES2 "unveiled" my hd600s, so to say.

I'm a reasonably big fan of the schiit stuff, but not sure I want to get a mjolnir.  audio-gd is on the list, though. As is the gs-x, something from ALO or the bryson bha-1.

I'm also contemplating getting into the tube game, but not entirely sold on that idea. 

Oh, had I not stumbled on this bifrost/asgard, I was thinking about getting your dacIT, too.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JPG on Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:52:47
Anyone has experience with the Audioengine D1 DAC and Integrated Amplifier? It's on sale on massdrop at 120$ and I wanted to know if it would b a good choice as a basic but good dac/amp to use with my computer. I never used good headphones or dac/amp and got the soundmagic hp100 coming and I am looking into a dac/amp but don't want to ruin myself either so if this is a good choice (and seems like it by the 3 reviews I just read) then it could be very interesting for me. I am not expecting the best sound ever, but a good upgrade from my computer output!

 
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:57:06
For me, if I were to get something like that, I'd want it to also be portable as well.  Like the fiio e17.  And then, if you wanted later, you can expand it with the e09k dock and make it even better.   Other than that, it seems like a decent experience
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JPG on Mon, 23 September 2013, 20:08:51
For me, if I were to get something like that, I'd want it to also be portable as well.  Like the fiio e17.  And then, if you wanted later, you can expand it with the e09k dock and make it even better.   Other than that, it seems like a decent experience

Thx for the answer. The portability is really not an issue for me. I would either use it at home with my computer, or at job with my laptop. I use my car to go to the job, so no point to use it on the way!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 23 September 2013, 20:09:43
For me, if I were to get something like that, I'd want it to also be portable as well.  Like the fiio e17.  And then, if you wanted later, you can expand it with the e09k dock and make it even better.   Other than that, it seems like a decent experience

Thx for the answer. The portability is really not an issue for me. I would either use it at home with my computer, or at job with my laptop. I use my car to go to the job, so no point to use it on the way!

Then, I'd say try it and see.  The secondhand market on stuff like that is strong, so not like you can't flip if you don't like it.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 30 September 2013, 14:23:07
This feels tempting - https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bravo-ocean-amplifier
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 30 September 2013, 14:39:34
This feels tempting - https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bravo-ocean-amplifier

Ehh... budget tube amps... not worth it imo.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 30 September 2013, 14:43:47
Ehh... budget tube amps... not worth it imo.

Why not?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Mon, 30 September 2013, 15:05:48
Ehh... budget tube amps... not worth it imo.

Why not?

not leet enough
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 30 September 2013, 15:47:44
Ehh... budget tube amps... not worth it imo.

Why not?

not leet enough

Basically. It costs a lot more money to make a good good tube amp than a solid state amp. That's why budget amps are either solid state or opamp based. I'd rather get a little dot i+ for a taste of tube and opamp rolling. With budget amps, you're already compromising. With budget tube amps, you're compromising even more.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 30 September 2013, 15:48:46
Hm. So what is your opinion on a Cavalli CTH?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Mon, 30 September 2013, 15:53:18
Ehh... budget tube amps... not worth it imo.

Why not?

not leet enough

Basically. It costs a lot more money to make a good good tube amp than a solid state amp. That's why budget amps are either solid state or opamp based. I'd rather get a little dot i+ for a taste of tube and opamp rolling. With budget amps, you're already compromising. With budget tube amps, you're compromising even more.

but that little dot i+ is the same price as that other one (at least according to amazon).. why is this better than the other? more trusted brand?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Mon, 30 September 2013, 16:24:04
Ehh... budget tube amps... not worth it imo.

Why not?

not leet enough

Basically. It costs a lot more money to make a good good tube amp than a solid state amp. That's why budget amps are either solid state or opamp based. I'd rather get a little dot i+ for a taste of tube and opamp rolling. With budget amps, you're already compromising. With budget tube amps, you're compromising even more.

Eh, I'm willing to compromise if that means I can get a good amp and not have to spend silly money. Because, while "proper" tube amps might be better, the Ocean will still be good enough I reckon, at least for that money
Not sure if I'm getting in on the drop, though, since I don't even know what kind of setup I want to end up with yet.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 30 September 2013, 16:27:38
I'm ready.

(http://i.imgur.com/olnI0Tw.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 30 September 2013, 16:41:21
Hm. So what is your opinion on a Cavalli CTH?

Never heard of it before :o. I don't know much about DIY amps/dacs in general, except for the bottlehead stuff and the o2/odac.

but that little dot i+ is the same price as that other one (at least according to amazon).. why is this better than the other? more trusted brand?

Yeah, more trusted brand but mainly because it's a hybrid rather than a full OTL tube amp. Also because there is already a tube rolling guide for the little dots on head-fi, and used tubes for little dots are more common. It's just hard to recommend $100 tube amps over the o2 or magni.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Mon, 30 September 2013, 17:27:01
Hm. So what is your opinion on a Cavalli CTH?

Never heard of it before :o. I don't know much about DIY amps/dacs in general, except for the bottlehead stuff and the o2/odac.

but that little dot i+ is the same price as that other one (at least according to amazon).. why is this better than the other? more trusted brand?

Yeah, more trusted brand but mainly because it's a hybrid rather than a full OTL tube amp. Also because there is already a tube rolling guide for the little dots on head-fi, and used tubes for little dots are more common. It's just hard to recommend $100 tube amps over the o2 or magni.

hm, seems like a reasonable explanation.. if i had any idea of what any of that meant lol.

well im glad it isn't just brand loyalty.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 October 2013, 09:28:54
Recently I got my hands on a e17 and x3.

I was really taken with the e17. I can use it with my work computer, home rig, and my Zune. I liked the versatility and the sound quality, a lot. The display was nice and I liked the ease of use on the e17.

The x3 is great: simple, can play flac, and has the same sound quality as the e17. However, the flac files take up a lot of room and if I bought one, I'd definitely get an SD card...and a way better pair of IEMs for when I'm at work :P

I'm getting a hold of thegunner100's GR07's. I'll be testing those against my Grados tonight...speaking of Grados, does anyone have a good mod for L cushion style pads? The L cushions I bought sound better than the S cushions or comfies. But the S-cush/comfies were way more comfortable. I've washed both with hair conditioner to soften it. And then I turned the L cushions inside out and put them on the cans. That seemed to work great but I'll have to try wearing them for a few hours. Was wondering if people had any other ideas though. Wrong thread. I'll post that over in the headphone thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13775.1950).
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:07:39
The gr07s are much more balanced than grados and will be better than grados for most genres. Also, don't bother putting flac on your dap unless you can actually tell the difference between flac and 320kbps/v0.

My friend's srh940 are arriving today! I don't think the other guy even shipped out my k702s yet :(
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:13:28
Also, don't bother putting flac on your dap unless you can actually tell the difference between flac and 320kbps/v0.

This is what I tried explaining to him and the owner of the x3, but... Hell, probably even v2, though I personally went with v0 without testing anything besides FLAC and v0, though to be honest, with not anything good to test with.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:15:12
The gr07s are much more balanced than grados and will be better than grados for most genres.

I listen to like 80% metal, which is why I grabbed Grados. But I've been testing out a bunch of different genres and you might be right. My friend's Ultrasones just sound so much better with every genre of music I've tried.


Also, don't bother putting flac on your dap unless you can actually tell the difference between flac and 320kbps/v0.

This is what I tried explaining to him and the owner of the x3, but... Hell, probably even v2, though I personally went with v0 without testing anything besides FLAC and v0, though to be honest, with not anything good to test with.

I've literally never had a good setup and the ability to play flac files so I wanted to try it for giggles. Plus I like testing things for myself. So far? I'd be more than happy with just 320kbps.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:22:32
I like FLAC for archiving purposes, and to know where my encodes are coming from proper.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:42:02
Ugh ultrasones... the Beats of the audiophile world =/
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:52:09
Why is that?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 02 October 2013, 19:06:20
I wanted to post this earlier, but I had class, so here is my rant on ultrasone. First off, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34S4Tt1EuQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34S4Tt1EuQ) for the lulz. All graphs were taken from changstar.com unless noted otherwise. Do not compare graphs taken from different websites, as each website measures their headphones different and use different compensations.

Lets start with the $1500 Ultrasone Edition8 Palladium (http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-Edition-Surround-Professional-Headphone/dp/B0026P4670/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380756864&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasone+edition+8).

Take a look at its frequency response.
[attach=1]

Aside from the driver mismatch, look at how many peaks and dips there are within the treble region after 5k. The unevenness of the treble region will cause awkward transitions and as a result, the treble can sound piercing. Aside from the treble region, the rest of the FR is quite uneven, and look at that bass! Lets take a look at the Cumulative Decay Spectrum for further proof.

[attach=2]

Yikes, very uneven, isn't it? Ideally the treble should decay quickly, or around the same time so that you will not hear resonance, or ringing. Slow decay in the treble region will cause the treble to linger around for longer than it's supposed to, and will thus lead to piercing treble. This isn't as bad as a few other ultrasones but I will get to them later.

Now for comparison, lets take a look at the hd800 (http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-Edition-Surround-Professional-Headphone/dp/B0026P4670/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380756864&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasone+edition+8)'s measurements ($1500).

With a simple mod (the anax mod), we get a very clean and even frequency response. No peaks or dips to note of at all. And the CSD? Absolutely clean.
[attach=3]
[attach=4]

How about something cheaper? Take a look at the mdr-v6 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-V6-Monitor-Series-Headphones/dp/B00001WRSJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380757606&sr=8-1&keywords=mdr-v6) (usually more around $65)
[attach=5]
[attach=6]

Even the $65 mdr-v6 pulls off a cleaner FR and CSD than the ultrasone edition 8.

Now perhaps the worst offender in the ultrasone line, the pro 900 (http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-900-Professional-Headphones/dp/B001F00F0E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380757995&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasone+pro+900).
[attach=7]
[attach=8]

Just look at the bass (200hz and below). WTF. Theres even more bass on the pro 900 than the Beats. Heck, I'll take a pair of beats studios or pros over these any day. Then look at the rest of the FR. Uneven mids, and a ridiculous treble dip at ~5.3khz, and then a treble spike at 6-7khz. To quote Purrin (founder of changstar.com), "The 5 sec rule is safer than 5 secs listening to these". I've personally tried them at a store, and he's completely right. Don't EVER play any sibilant or treble heavy music on these pair of headphones. Just ridiculous for a $400 pair of headphones.

Now onto the $145 ultrasone DJ1 (http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-DJ1-Surround-Professional-Headphones/dp/B000GU77SC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380758299&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasone+dj1).
[attach=9]
[attach=10]
Graphs taken from goldenears.net
Now if you can't interpret how they sound like from FR and CSD, lemme tell you how they sound like.

COMPLETE TRASH. Just look at that wonky, uneven frequency response. WTF IS THAT. THen take a look at the CSD. That delicious resonance at 4khz. So basically, from personal experience of trying them out, and from the CSD, every sound that comes out from these pair of headphones sound like they have a cavernous sound to them. All the notes take forever to decay. Your the initial note, and then you hear another second of the note bouncing off the walls of a cave. Disgusting.

TL;DR/Summary
The price that ultrasone charges for their headphones is ludicrous. All you get for your money is ridiculously bad bass, or hearing damage from the treble spikes. Don't waste your money on ultrasones. There are so many headphones out there that cost less than ultrasones, and sound so much better.

If you read through my whole rant and explanation, thank you very much. I hope this was informative, as it took me quite a while to type up.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 October 2013, 19:33:55
Dude...I did notice that the trebles were really odd.

/me has his mind blown
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan_ on Wed, 16 October 2013, 13:42:43
Just out of curiosity, are there any tube amps that are considered "entry level?"  I purchased the Fiio E17 from one of the recent Massdrop buys, and got the Sennheiser HD 598 headphones around the same time.  This combo has opened my ears to what is possible in portable audio (apart from some tendency to get tinnitus if I listen for extended periods...).

So if I wanted to try out a relatively small tube amp, something I could swap different tubes into, are there any recommended options?  And are there recommended vendors for tubes as well - like the one linked below?

http://www.tubedepot.com/sed.html

(I did see in the OP that tube amps were off-topic, for the first discussion.  Are we past that point, or is this still a verboten topic?)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 16 October 2013, 14:39:47
Little Dot I+ is pretty entry level and it gives you lots of tube and OPAMP rolling options. But are you talking portable... like the Analog Paper Squared?

http://www.analog2p.com/
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JPG on Wed, 16 October 2013, 15:01:29
Anyone have a recommendation for a dac/amp combo that has a very low output impedance (<4ohm) and is of good quality yet with a price of <300$ and <200$ would be better. I know of the modi/magni combo, but I will probably bring it to work and back home on a regular basis and having 2 units with cables and everything will be more annoying. I don't want one with batteries since I will use it only with a computer. I would like it to be not too big, but it does not have to be so small or ultra portable.

I was looking at the hifi iDac, but have not been convinced by the reviews and the price is "limit" and they are hard to find. I have seen many other different interesting choices, but most have either a 10 ohm impedance, or have reviews not THAT convincing. I am not looking for tube amp at this price tag, but I would not be opposed to them either.

Maybe I will still go for the modi/magni even if I am not convinced, or maybe I will wait until a new product matching my criteria is availabe (and this market seems to be prolific!).

Thx for the input!

P.S.: my headphones are soundmagic hp100 and have a 32 ohm impedance.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 16 October 2013, 15:04:09
Anyone have a recommendation for a dac/amp combo that has a very low output impedance (<4ohm) and is of good quality yet with a price of <300$ and <200$ would be better. I know of the modi/magni combo, but I will probably bring it to work and back home on a regular basis and having 2 units with cables and everything will be more annoying. I don't want one with batteries since I will use it only with a computer. I would like it to be not too big, but it does not have to be so small or ultra portable.

I was looking at the hifi iDac, but have not been convinced by the reviews and the price is "limit" and they are hard to find. I have seen many other different interesting choices, but most have either a 10 ohm impedance, or have reviews not THAT convincing. I am not looking for tube amp at this price tag, but I would not be opposed to them either.

Maybe I will still go for the modi/magni even if I am not convinced, or maybe I will wait until a new product matching my criteria is availabe (and this market seems to be prolific!).

Thx for the input!

P.S.: my headphones are soundmagic hp100 and have a 32 ohm impedance.

O2/ODAC combo?
http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=48
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan_ on Wed, 16 October 2013, 15:06:03
Little Dot I+ is pretty entry level and it gives you lots of tube and OPAMP rolling options. But are you talking portable... like the Analog Paper Squared?

http://www.analog2p.com/

Although that Analog Paper Squared amp is a work of minimalist art, I think the Little Dot amplifier looks more suitable for a desk-top headphone setup.  Maybe something with a few more more features, like a Toslink input, or USB connection?

I like the look of the Little Dot MK VIII, but that's probably overkill when using a PC as the primary source.   :))
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 16 October 2013, 15:22:36

Although that Analog Paper Squared amp is a work of minimalist art, I think the Little Dot amplifier looks more suitable for a desk-top headphone setup.  Maybe something with a few more more features, like a Toslink input, or USB connection?

I like the look of the Little Dot MK VIII, but that's probably overkill when using a PC as the primary source.   :))

There's nothing wrong with using the PC as the primary source. That's the main thing people use nowadays for music anyways. The little dots are just amps, if they're amps. Toslink inputs or usb inputs are for DACs.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 16 October 2013, 18:30:04
 
Just out of curiosity, are there any tube amps that are considered "entry level?"  I purchased the Fiio E17 from one of the recent Massdrop buys, and got the Sennheiser HD 598 headphones around the same time.  This combo has opened my ears to what is possible in portable audio (apart from some tendency to get tinnitus if I listen for extended periods...).

So if I wanted to try out a relatively small tube amp, something I could swap different tubes into, are there any recommended options?  And are there recommended vendors for tubes as well - like the one linked below?

http://www.tubedepot.com/sed.html

(I did see in the OP that tube amps were off-topic, for the first discussion.  Are we past that point, or is this still a verboten topic?)

Another thing to look out for is the new Schiit Vali.  It's a non-replaceable tube amp that runs $120 that has already got some great first impression reviews.  There are some drawbacks, though.  The tubes are microphonic (so they ring for ~60 sec after you plug in headphones or mess with power), the output resistance is 8ohm so there's a high noise floor for low impedance gear and there was one other thing that is escaping my mind, but if you're not running low resistance cans or IEMs, it's a great little box at a good price.  I just picked up a used Lyr for cheap or I'd be in line to get one when it goes public.

From there, the little dot stuff is strong for entry level as is the ocean v2.

Anyone have a recommendation for a dac/amp combo that has a very low output impedance (<4ohm) and is of good quality yet with a price of <300$ and <200$ would be better. I know of the modi/magni combo, but I will probably bring it to work and back home on a regular basis and having 2 units with cables and everything will be more annoying. I don't want one with batteries since I will use it only with a computer. I would like it to be not too big, but it does not have to be so small or ultra portable.

I was looking at the hifi iDac, but have not been convinced by the reviews and the price is "limit" and they are hard to find. I have seen many other different interesting choices, but most have either a 10 ohm impedance, or have reviews not THAT convincing. I am not looking for tube amp at this price tag, but I would not be opposed to them either.

Maybe I will still go for the modi/magni even if I am not convinced, or maybe I will wait until a new product matching my criteria is availabe (and this market seems to be prolific!).

Thx for the input!

P.S.: my headphones are soundmagic hp100 and have a 32 ohm impedance.

The magni/modi is a good entry level sit down amp/dac and you might glance at the firestone audio fubar HD that's on massdrop right now.  Most everything else I'd recommend would have a battery for portable use (fiio e17 specifically).
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 16 October 2013, 18:34:48
Ahh yes, I forgot about the Vali. It has gotten some nice impressions from Purrin and Anaxillus.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: meiosis on Wed, 16 October 2013, 21:20:58
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/firestone-fireye-mini

For $27 is this any good? I am not sure if I want to shell out $200 for a tube amp yet. But are tube amps worth it compared to the normal $100 fiio stuff?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JPG on Wed, 16 October 2013, 21:32:48
Just out of curiosity, are there any tube amps that are considered "entry level?"  I purchased the Fiio E17 from one of the recent Massdrop buys, and got the Sennheiser HD 598 headphones around the same time.  This combo has opened my ears to what is possible in portable audio (apart from some tendency to get tinnitus if I listen for extended periods...).

So if I wanted to try out a relatively small tube amp, something I could swap different tubes into, are there any recommended options?  And are there recommended vendors for tubes as well - like the one linked below?

http://www.tubedepot.com/sed.html

(I did see in the OP that tube amps were off-topic, for the first discussion.  Are we past that point, or is this still a verboten topic?)

Another thing to look out for is the new Schiit Vali.  It's a non-replaceable tube amp that runs $120 that has already got some great first impression reviews.  There are some drawbacks, though.  The tubes are microphonic (so they ring for ~60 sec after you plug in headphones or mess with power), the output resistance is 8ohm so there's a high noise floor for low impedance gear and there was one other thing that is escaping my mind, but if you're not running low resistance cans or IEMs, it's a great little box at a good price.  I just picked up a used Lyr for cheap or I'd be in line to get one when it goes public.

From there, the little dot stuff is strong for entry level as is the ocean v2.

Anyone have a recommendation for a dac/amp combo that has a very low output impedance (<4ohm) and is of good quality yet with a price of <300$ and <200$ would be better. I know of the modi/magni combo, but I will probably bring it to work and back home on a regular basis and having 2 units with cables and everything will be more annoying. I don't want one with batteries since I will use it only with a computer. I would like it to be not too big, but it does not have to be so small or ultra portable.

I was looking at the hifi iDac, but have not been convinced by the reviews and the price is "limit" and they are hard to find. I have seen many other different interesting choices, but most have either a 10 ohm impedance, or have reviews not THAT convincing. I am not looking for tube amp at this price tag, but I would not be opposed to them either.

Maybe I will still go for the modi/magni even if I am not convinced, or maybe I will wait until a new product matching my criteria is availabe (and this market seems to be prolific!).

Thx for the input!

P.S.: my headphones are soundmagic hp100 and have a 32 ohm impedance.

The magni/modi is a good entry level sit down amp/dac and you might glance at the firestone audio fubar HD that's on massdrop right now.  Most everything else I'd recommend would have a battery for portable use (fiio e17 specifically).

I looked at fubar HD, but it's output impedance is too high for my cans (like 5 or 10 if my memory is good). I am in no hurry, but I will keep an eye on schiit even if it would be more of a pain to carry them regularly to job. I know it would have some consequences on the sound, but if they could fuse the modi and magni together it would be a plus for me!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:32:40
So last night I scored a great deal on Mad Dogs and a Magni Amp. I also have a Cavalli CTH waiting to be built. I have two amps and no DAC so I was wondering if people could recommend a DAC for those two amps. I'll be trying a Modi DAC thanks to tjcaustin's tour. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48918.0) But I just wanted to see if there were other options out there.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:13:30
Did you get that package from eke from head-fi? xD. Stick with the modi for now imo, unless you have more money to spend on another dac. Perhaps a audio-gd.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:15:21
I got my hands on this (http://www.head-fi.org/t/687072/help-fund-my-21st-birthday-mad-dogs-alpha-pads-comfort-strap-schiit-magni). So yes, if you're referring to eke2k6 I did buy that :D.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:21:18
Yep, that's who I was referring to. May I ask how much you paid?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:26:50
$225 for the package. I thought it was a great deal.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:35:15
Damn nice, grats! Like I said before, I don't like the mad dogs but that's a really good deal. There's a pair of of like-new hd800s on head-fi for $850. I hope my pm wasn't too late. The seller only has 1 feedback though, but it's through PayPal at least.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:36:46
It was love at first listen for me. Tjcaustin had a pair when we met up in Dallas and to me, they sounded better than the LCD-2s. :D

Good luck on your sale too!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 10:57:02
Hmm well they're quite different in sound siganture. The mad dogs are on the bright side whereas the lcd2s are dark. Dark headphones aren't as immediately exciting or likeable as brighter, more fun headphones I suppose.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 23 October 2013, 13:11:29
Damn nice, grats! Like I said before, I don't like the mad dogs but that's a really good deal. There's a pair of of like-new hd800s on head-fi for $850. I hope my pm wasn't too late. The seller only has 1 feedback though, but it's through PayPal at least.

Damn, I must have missed that in my scans.  I'm watching a set on ebay sitting at 800 right now.

Hmm well they're quite different in sound siganture. The mad dogs are on the bright side whereas the lcd2s are dark. Dark headphones aren't as immediately exciting or likeable as brighter, more fun headphones I suppose.

And it's kinda the opposite with me.  I mean, had I heard the mad dogs first, I might not have the lcd-2, but to me, I can't imagine replacing lcd-2 with mad dogs.  Alpha dogs, maybe, but not mad dogs.

Also, I'm digging the Lyr that I picked up this weekend a fair amount.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 13:17:27
The $800 one on ebay looks decent. It is $50 shipping from Isreal though, which kills the price imo. I think it'll likely go up to $1000 by the time the auction ends =/
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: bueller on Thu, 24 October 2013, 07:00:55
Just added an Nforce Icon2 to my desktop setup, can't believe the difference in sound quality. Suppose I was expecting a bit much out of the on-board sound in retrospect. Loving the features on this little thing, was looking around for something with a USB DAC + Amp for ages when I stumbled upon this on eBay being sold as ex-demo stock. Only paid $268 shipped so I'm pretty happy overall  :)

Want to get some new speakers soon, I have some Celestion '1' bookshelf speakers but they're 86db sensitivity and the manual for the Icon2 recommends 87db and above. Looking at the Audioengine P4's at the moment but I'm open to suggestions!

(http://i.imgur.com/wGRD5gb.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Thu, 24 October 2013, 08:04:39
Perhaps the Emotiva Airmotiv 4s? They're on sale for $300 right now, free shipping, and no taxes. I haven't heard them yet, but I've read many great reviews on them. My friend bought a pair this week and says they're good. He's going to bring them over to my room next week for me to try.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: bueller on Thu, 24 October 2013, 11:40:03
Perhaps the Emotiva Airmotiv 4s? They're on sale for $300 right now, free shipping, and no taxes. I haven't heard them yet, but I've read many great reviews on them. My friend bought a pair this week and says they're good. He's going to bring them over to my room next week for me to try.

Ah I'm actually looking for some passive speakers, definitely keen to hear your thoughts on them though. Still can't get over how good the Icon2 sounds, put on some Explosions in the Sky FLAC and its like listening to a completely different album!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Cottonsox on Sun, 27 October 2013, 03:34:13
Wondering if someone can help answer my question, I have the AUNE T1 - i am trying to figure out if it can run passive speakers out of the rear ports, when it is usingthe DAC (USBsetting).

Fairly Dense when it comes to audio stuff, I am in the market for some speakers trying to figure out how best to set it up with this amp/dac and if i would need anything else.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sun, 27 October 2013, 05:43:41
Wondering if someone can help answer my question, I have the AUNE T1 - i am trying to figure out if it can run passive speakers out of the rear ports, when it is usingthe DAC (USBsetting).

Fairly Dense when it comes to audio stuff, I am in the market for some speakers trying to figure out how best to set it up with this amp/dac and if i would need anything else.

The Aune T1 has RCA outs, which would only take advantage of the dac section of the aune. You would need a integrated amp or a seperate power and preamp for passive speakers. Something cheap and simple like the Lepai mini amp would work. Else look towards getting poiwered speakers, which wont require an external amp.

http://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-LP-2020A-Lepai-Amplifier-Shipping/dp/B00C2P61FO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1382870556&sr=8-2&keywords=lepai+lp-2020a%2B
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: AKIMbO on Sun, 27 October 2013, 07:20:48
I'm anxiously awaiting schit to release the vali.  Going to get the full schit stack.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 27 October 2013, 14:00:49
Wondering if someone can help answer my question, I have the AUNE T1 - i am trying to figure out if it can run passive speakers out of the rear ports, when it is usingthe DAC (USBsetting).

Fairly Dense when it comes to audio stuff, I am in the market for some speakers trying to figure out how best to set it up with this amp/dac and if i would need anything else.

The Aune T1 has RCA outs, which would only take advantage of the dac section of the aune. You would need a integrated amp or a seperate power and preamp for passive speakers. Something cheap and simple like the Lepai mini amp would work. Else look towards getting poiwered speakers, which wont require an external amp.

http://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-LP-2020A-Lepai-Amplifier-Shipping/dp/B00C2P61FO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1382870556&sr=8-2&keywords=lepai+lp-2020a%2B

Another good option for non-powered stuff would be to get a emotiva mini-x.  They're reasonably priced and will drive most bookshelf passive 2 channel set ups.  I've thought a few times of replacing the old amp in my living room with one.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: naokira on Sat, 02 November 2013, 13:41:54
Just researching on audio stuff.

I wanted to buy the M-Audio BX5 and couple it with a sound card.
But when I stumbled upon this thread, modi would probably go better.

The problem I'll probably encounter is that the BX5's volume is at the back.
Now I know this would be stupid but here goes:

is it reasonable to run a Modi Magni combo just for the purpose of the volume knob?

I mean a headphone amp for a studio monitor?

Facepalm-worthy question, I know. :blank:
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sat, 02 November 2013, 13:48:15
Get something with a pre-amp out, and then you can use the volume controls on that.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: naokira on Sat, 02 November 2013, 13:51:50
Get something with a pre-amp out, and then you can use the volume controls on that.

Oh okay! Will research on that.  ;)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: poopmat on Sat, 09 November 2013, 18:29:10
well i guell ill list what i use
fiio d3 dac
little bear tube preamp
Sure 50x2 tripath amp
all out of a pair of klispich chorus 2 speakers
all music is flac and played through my pc
no headphones yet
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: uncola on Tue, 12 November 2013, 03:39:15
I went through a long audio journey this year.. First I was skeptical headphone amps did anything.  Then I started out with an aune t1 amp/dac and sennheiser hd595, very good entry level and really all I needed.
Got a maverick audio a1 amp, does both speakers and headphones, has hybrid operation for speakers, pure tube for headphones.. good the knob is stepped, not linear which was annoying.. so I got restless and upgraded.  This is the only amp I didn't sell because it's really great for bookshelf speakers.
Endgame setup.. Schiit Mjolnir balanced amp, balanced Fostex T50RP modded headphones from zmfheadphones.  Using a hifimediy sabre 9023 cheap dac, but has great sound quality.

(http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/e6/310x310px-e6a707cc_KGrHqZHJEkE-jSyKcqpBPwjO5GEg60_12.jpeg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7300/10030764163_c8a8b719e6.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2Q34krpJhqI/UPbmlU_OciI/AAAAAAAAAC8/l4gjtxazfJw/s1600/IMG_2952.JPG)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 12 November 2013, 05:50:01
hifimediy dac with a mjolnir? Seems very disproportional... get yourself a better dac! xD. Preferably a balanced one so that you can take advantage of the mjolnir's fully balanced build.

I'd like to try a mjolnir with my hd800s. But I think I'll wait for the ragnarok :D
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 12 November 2013, 12:29:15
Such big.  Many loud.


Love my lyr/uber bifrost stack.  Wish ALO didn't send me only 1 hd800 connector, though.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 November 2013, 16:52:01
So I was checking out this thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51347.0) and I was a little bummed I didn't get them just because the price was so good. But I haven't tried them yet so I won't buy. But there was one post that got me thinking:

Really sick deal for these, they however need a bit of amping to perform to their best.

Just out of curiosity, would a Magni amp be enough to drive these? They seemed to be fine for the HD600s. Is there a calculation to figure out what you amperage/wattage/voltage/electrical stuff would be ideal for a pair of headphones?

So it totally just clicked these are the 650s and not the 600s, which I haven't seen for this price, save used for a desperate seller.

Biggest difference between the two is the drivers are matched better for the 650s vs the 600s.  Because of that, the 650s are a more engaging, but less "neutral" sound, which to my ear and brain is more enjoyable as I like a bit more emphasis on the things on the edges of my hearing range with a supreme level of detail.  I'm also one to go for a more warm sounding headphone as well. The downside of this is you get to hear goofballs call 650s "more veiled" or whatever.  As to the rest, they're comfortable, light and well built if not a little silly looking in terms of their paint job.

Point of fact, I've always wanted to love the 6xx line, but for the prices, I felt the competing planar options from hifiman and mr speakers were more my style.  Then, I got a pair of hd800s and now I'm sennheiser only.

And damn you TJ for making me feel regret at not getting these :(.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 22 November 2013, 17:02:16
I think you'll like the hd600 equally if not a little more.  You seem to have a different preference/hearing signature than me anyways.

The magni should be fine.  It's not zomg amazing like it can be for lower ohm headsets, but it does work.

From what I've been able to see, balanced and OTL tube amps are the hd600/650's bread/butter.  So stuff like the cth you're building, the speedball crack that halverson has and similar are going to match better.  I think the audiogd piece that thegunner has is a good option as well.  Personally, I'm resisting getting the mjolnir to replace my lyr.  Fortunately, there's not enough landscape on my desk to facilitate the want.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Fri, 22 November 2013, 17:16:59
The differences between the hd600 and 650 are over exaggerated on head-fi. The hd650 has just a little less upper mids and slightly more bass comapred to the hd600. I think you would prefer the 600 over the 650 but really, not a huge difference between the two.

The magni will be fine for the hd6xx. Wait for the Vali imo, orders are supposed to be available on Monday. I think I will get one to try with the hd800s, since Purrin and Anax have said good things about it over at changstar. Speedball/crack if you want a really smooth sound signature (have not personally tried). If you have a bit more money, the nfb-10es3 is a great all in one unit but you will need a balanced cable for the senns to get the most benefit out of the a-gd unit. If you want something cheaper, the nfb-11.32 is a great option for single-ended. I personally feel that the strong point of the a-gd products are its dacs, so perhaps a 11.32 + vali combo might be nice for you.

In summary, OTL tubes for smooth/warmer sound. Balanced solid state for detail, clarity, dynamics. At least for the units mentioned.

@tj, based on what i've read on changstar, the vali outperforms the lyr. And of course the mjolnir outperforms both of them.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 22 November 2013, 17:33:16
I totally forgot the vali was a thing when I made my list for some reason.

That's impressive to hear that the Vali is actually better than the lyr. I'd seen a bunch of the first impressions posts that purrin and anax did and fell for the head-fi anti-hype. I'm still resisting going mjolnir for the time being.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Moosecraft on Fri, 22 November 2013, 18:45:54
TJ just said what you need to know about amping HD6xx, basically to get that luscious lovely sound you need some nice tubes :)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 25 November 2013, 10:52:18
Vali ordered! I hope I made the cut for the first orders.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Mon, 25 November 2013, 11:27:35
Vali ordered! I hope I made the cut for the first orders.

ditto-  Says they were in stock... so... I'm hoping.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:09:30
Would be interesting to see a review one these 2 pieces.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=443&area=en

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=444&area=en
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:07:44
Would be interesting to see a review one these 2 pieces.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=443&area=en

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=444&area=en

Silverstone eh? Would be nice to at least see some specs on them like output power and impedance on the headphone amp so that potential buyers could see if it'll work with various headphones
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:08:16
Even though I have a lyr, I'm tempted.  Too bad it would look goofy on top of my bifrost.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:14:52
Even though I have a lyr, I'm tempted.  Too bad it would look goofy on top of my bifrost.

The NFB-10es2 is going to dwaf the Vali unfortunately >.>. If the vali sounds better than the balanced outputs on the nfb-10es2, I'm going to be a little bit sad that I'll only be utilizing its dac section.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:39:38
Even though I have a lyr, I'm tempted.  Too bad it would look goofy on top of my bifrost.

You can borrow mine if you want to do an A/B comparison.

btw I may need you for some cables.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:58:01
Would be interesting to see a review one these 2 pieces.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=443&area=en

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=444&area=en

these are quite pricey :3

Neat find though.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 25 November 2013, 16:18:29
Would be interesting to see a review one these 2 pieces.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=443&area=en

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=444&area=en

these are quite pricey :3

Neat find though.

Yeah I didn't look at the epeice and have no idea what other common units go for.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Fri, 29 November 2013, 11:51:06
I received my Vali/Modi combo right before the holiday and decided to bring it with me while I was visiting family.


Just to preface:  I waited to even look at these because,
When I got to my family's house after enjoying a meal with the fiancee's parents my father and his brother were toying around with a home made synth/controller they have been developing for the past two years.  I hopped into the fray with the new schiit toys and I explained the marketing/target demographic of the products.

Together we popped open the cases and my father, the EE, took the time to explain to me the design.

His first comment was, "this is some of the best commercial packaging (referring to the boxes, jacks, boards, soldering) I've seen in a product.  Great design."

Modi,

Looking at the modi is really just a matter of looking at the part numbers of the ICs on board.  We didn't sit down and source each of the parts, but most DACs/usb audio codec controllers of the quality of the modi are between 10-20 USD each in low quantities.  They sacrificed no expense with this device, and what they have is at the forefront of digital to analog.  The device is split into three sections. 

On the back of the board, what is facing down when you open the case, there is the USB audio codec chip, a memory controller, DAC, and basically all of the thinking parts of the board.  On the front of their device there are stamped (2) and (3) markers which designate which part of the boards are responsible for analog (2), and digital (3).  Nothing really of note on the back of the board.  In all it is a significant markup for the buyer if you were to consider the component cost, but the stamped construction of the case adds a rigid and aesthetically pleasing barrier between the superbly designed board and your cats.

Vali,

Taking apart the Vali for me was really fun.  I have a background in tinkering with tube guitar amplifiers.  With guitar amps the gain characteristics of the tube stages are where you get signature sounds.  Without the acoustic coloring of tubes most guitarists sneer and roll their eyes at the sounds of their instrument.  This is mostly because there is nothing grand about the raw sound of an electric guitar... well not most of them.  The amp plays as much of a roll in the sound of your music as your pickups and ability to play.  As interesting as all of that is- headphone amplifiers are a different story.

In theory the recorded music is your source.  In this day we have our digital sources which are loss-less.    From our source, which is pure, we need to create an acoustic response from the transducer, speaker, driver... whatever you want to call it.

People have a lot of misconceptions about drivers and the devices used to drive them.  I don't want to touch on those misconceptions unless they apply to the Vali, so I will save that ranting for another time.  For the most part as a lover of hi-fidelity the objective of an amplifier is to take a source and allow for linear volume gain and distortion-free representation of the source.  Every interconnect has an effect on the audio in terms of impedance.  If the power of the signal over the interconnect is great enough... the less loss of the high end across the cable.  So what does all of this mean?

A great sound will come from a great source, low distortion amplification, interconnects, and a transducer of leading quality.  Out of all of the components in this chain the areas which should be of the greatest concern for the listener should be the transducer.  That is where the most loss can occur.  There is no reason amplification or interconnects should impede the source.

The circuit of the Vali takes an RCA L/R line in and preamplifies the signal with subminiature pentode tube amplifiers.  The raytheon tubes which are used in this amplifier are relatively inexpensive, but offer superb characteristics at low voltage.  A 16V AC transformer comes with the Vali.  This power is doubled and the "doubling" method our engineers at Schiit used creates a plate voltage to the preamp tubes of about 46V.  If I may reach pretty far in my memory and understanding this could be because of an AC>DC conversion.

At this point in the path of the signal we have gone from source (DAC), to amplifier... the pre-amp stage.  The pre on this device is a fixed voltage.  They have made a rather ingenious and clean power supply to prevent irregularities in the plate voltages.  The pentode tube is rated for iirc 67V to the plate.  By operating the plates at this "sweet spot" voltage they are effectively pre-amplifying the line signal across the tubes to a meaty 46V without any gain and therefore a negligible amount of distortion.  The low voltage operation also extends the life of the tube.  Huzzah!  This tube should last for an amazing amount of time :)

It was explained to me that the way the Vali's preamp is designed is a class A amplifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Class_A) which is great because our little tube is handling the entire signal waveform and there is no possibility for crossover distortion which is a distortion that can occur when the waveform crosses the X axis.  On that note we move to what I will refer to as the power section of the amplifier. 

The power stage in a guitar amp is where the REAL power is made to drive your transducers.  In a 100% tube amp the objective is to filter your audio through your tube gain and hear the characteristic tube sound with all of its micro-harmonics and yadda mojo yadda.  I get it with guitars, but with headphone amps I feel like Schiit did the right thing in making this a transistor based (solid state) amplification stage.  With the solid state components there is more control over the THD across the available level of amplification.  I was told the transistors are in a push-pull configuration with a biasing LED (class A/B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Class_AB)) which make up the power to drive das headphones.  The two transistors handle half of the total wav-form which is problematic in terms of distortion.  This is much more power efficient than a class A solution and it is VERY important we consider that the power supply of the device would have to be much larger and would require more engineering if this was a class-A amplifier.  Without being too critical of their decision I would like to point out that this is a class A/B-- there is significant gains in quality over a class B.  Schiit has biased the two transistors in push/pull with an LED.  This will simulate a class A amplifier's low distortion characteristics up until the amplification is too large for the bias to regulate the push/pull of the transistor amplification.   Most industry engineers have designed the A/B amplifier bias to work up until human hearing could not possibly understand the crossover distortion.  This is because the volume of the device has become so great we would not be able to comprehend the effect with our hearing.  I'm not saying that everyone is this sensitive/lacking sensitivity, but I want to stress that this solution is elegant and I would assume Schiit provided plenty of headroom with their bias for normal listening.

With that I am pretty certain I've explained what I know about the engineering behind this shiny Shiit stack.

As for my feelings on it... well I've listened to one song on this amp.  It is a song I am very familiar with and I use it to demo a number of headphones.  It is Imogen Heap - Aha!  There is a fantastic mix of hi-fi and lo-fi sounds.  With a poor setup or transducers the song feels interrupted at points by the mixing of samples.  With the Vali and Modi running a pair of HD650s... I have not heard my 650s sound as clear.  The low end of these headphones are not normally as defined as I have heard from this amp/dac combo.  With that I will say I am going to keep these headphones because of this stack.  After hearing them in this light I am more than satisfied with them and they outperform the HD600 for me.

The reason I was only able to listen to one song was that after I listened to Aha! I passed my HD650s over to my father... he promptly listened to the song, talked about how insane people are if they think they can hear 16 bit vs 24 bit audio, took out my mad dogs (which he loves), mumbled something, said something to my mother to have her distract me, and sat down with the stack to listen to the entire Cat Stevens, year of the cat, master recording which was available on Mog.  I was finally able to leave my parents house at 11 PM, my father grinning like an idiot, and hopes of grinning similarly this weekend.

If anyone is without an amplifier right now- I would recommend it.  The thing draws more power than most solid state amplifiers, but it is a class A(preamp) to A/B(power amp) solution instead of A/B(preamp) to A/B(power amp) which, by definition, is a more pure signal with lower distortion in the amplifier.  They picked the right tube device for this project, and I'm satisfied especially after hearing about how clever Schiit was in developing the little devil.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Fri, 29 November 2013, 14:04:48
Excellent read, thanks for the technical explanations behind the Vali. I'm looking forward to trying the vali with my nfb-10es2 (dac-only) and the hd600s + hd800s.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Fri, 29 November 2013, 22:24:36
Posted this here and on head-fi,

Demoing right now with Mad Dog 3.2.  PC>Modi>Vali... No special cables or mods.  I like a lot of Jazz, R&B, Rock, and Electronic.  Genres that may be a close relative are all fair game.  I am by no means a pro, I have done some recording in a studio environment, and I do play a few instruments.  When I do recordings and most listenings I use a reliable interface the Roland Tri-Capture.  The tri-cap is my go to interface for ultra low recording and listening latency with great fidelity.  It is well within the performance of similar solid state headphone amp solutions at three times its price.


Playlist

Queens of the Stone Age - The Vampyre of Time and Memory
Imogen Heap - Aha!
Lotus - Nematode
Hot Chp - The Warning
Indego Children - Puscifier
The Budos Band - Unbroken, Unshaven

The Vampyre of Time and Memory, 2013 was a good year for QOTS.  When I first listened to this on my default setup during the first 15 days of owning my Mad Dogs I knew I had to keep the headphones.  There are a few synth effects, the standard dirty guitar, a piano, a bass line which carries the tune and multi-tracked lyrics which ride on top of the bass line with grace and melancholy.  With the Vali I remember the synth having less dimension.  There just seem to be more harmonics with that sound and I can't quite decide if I like it better with the tri-capture or the Vali.  It's more like the bitey hum has grown several sets of extra teeth and I could wince at the effect with a good volume.  This sound is pretty prominent in the song, so most of the other instruments either cut through it or play along with the sound.   What I love is that even with the tubes all of those key instruments in the song remain characteristic and cut the mix in their own right.  The audio remains spectacular and haunting.  My enjoyment is not halted with any of additional dynamic I experience in the synth effect.

Aha! 2nd to Nematode this tune has a ton of presence with airy sounds.  Vocals are punchy at times and then suddenly whispered evoking an increased sense of suspense. At 1:40 and going to 1:55 there is a vocal backtrack I have a hard time placing each time I listen to this track, but when I do I grin because the play is enchanting.  The vali misses none of the articulation at this part and more.  Clear separation of the samples used in her song remains true to the recording.  There is a bit of extra punch in the drivers when the bell sounds decay, and some of the synthesized percussive effects have a bit more impact than I remember.  There is also more presence to the cello without destroying any other part of the mix.

Nematode, Great piece, exceptionally smooth by nature, and captured live.  There is a huge scene painted with this tune.  The guitars sound as sublime as ever.  There was a noise which I picked out some new rhythmic hiss and crackle new tonight which was the effect of the compressor the guitarist was using throughout the song.  To hear it at all with the solid state amp I had to turn up things a bit louder to an uncomfortable level, but not with the Vali which seemed to keep it all and all of the rest of the instruments/effects admirably in the forefront of the stage. Almost 9 minutes into the song there are some bass frequencies which subtly roll into the song before things start to get more and more energetic.  They rolled in without any lack of subtlety as they should.  No over accentuated details so I am starting to think although the tri capture is admirable there is just a bit more low end definition that I could get out of a higher end SS amp.  I only assume this because the color is not disproportional... just the separation of the details between the two setups.

The Warning, I've listened to this song a million times between the car, portable solutions, youtube, and every now and again.  It has a bunch of percussion and lyrics which ever so gently keep in time.  Nothing really complex here, nothing lost, clear and crisp representation of the recording.

Indego Children, This song became growly without remorse and I believe that was intended.  My desk speakers get most of the power I'm now hearing from the Mad Dogs.  From the songs I've listened to earlier in the list I can say that there is much more low end definition between the Vali and my Tri-Capture.  With the presence of the low end separation I do not get a sense that there is extra coloring.  Nothing seems more recessed and remains just crystal clear and punchy.

Unspoken, Unshaven, Like Nematode this song is more relaxed and just sounds larger.  The horns are one reason I come back to The Budos Band aside from the grooooooovy tunes.  I feel the vali handles these sounds with care and the echo effect to the lead horn really creates notable depth.  In previous songs it looks like I mention without fault my feelings regarding clarity of the low end and the mix.  Bass is one of those things that not all genres inject via IV into their recordings.  In fact the lower midrange can often overpower or meld with a bass line.  The Budos Band's range is a bit darker with a clear balance resting in the crashes, shakers, and horns used.  A lot of times this muddies with darker or warmer gear.  I get none of that sense from the Vali..  If I can cite one more song Nature's Wrath also by The Budos Band I must stress that the power behind these songs is low end clarity and separation.  Bass presence is one thing and a warm/dark sound is another.  There is definitely the string quality to the bass guitars, and the tin of any slap is present and balanced.

I've nothing but praise for the Vali as a $119 amp.  That being said... I don't think it should be run(demoed) without a DAC.  The tubes of the Vali will do wonderful things with a pure source and with anything less I fear might give the wrong impression of this neat device.  Earlier I had used it on my HD650 and immediately noticed the veil on that set of phones seemed lifted.  Thanks Schiit for making such a cool piece.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 03 December 2013, 15:11:30
Really enjoyed that read Binge :D. Maybe you could send that Vali over to me to do some A/B testing against a Magni? :P
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 03 December 2013, 16:27:27
Only after I try it against my lyr
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Tue, 03 December 2013, 16:39:59
A small tour may be in order.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 17:17:39
Or just buy it and resell for a small loss if you don't like it :P
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 21:17:06
Guys, should I buy the vali or magni. Such a tough call.

Amping Q701s and HE-400s.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 03 December 2013, 21:27:50
Guys, should I buy the vali or magni. Such a tough call.

Amping Q701s and HE-400s.

Lyr, nothing beats tubes. Nothing.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 21:38:54
Guys, should I buy the vali or magni. Such a tough call.

Amping Q701s and HE-400s.

Lyr, nothing beats tubes. Nothing.

I would if I had the money. I don't know if I want a tube anyway. The distortion turns me off. Even though it may sound warm, is that real?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 21:51:27
The Vali has a very slight warmth to them. Check the head-fi vali thread for more impressions. For me, it's great with the hd800 but mediocre with the hd600s. Also, you definitely need a good dac to get the most out of the vali.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 03 December 2013, 21:53:37
Guys, should I buy the vali or magni. Such a tough call.

Amping Q701s and HE-400s.

Lyr, nothing beats tubes. Nothing.

I would if I had the money. I don't know if I want a tube anyway. The distortion turns me off. Even though it may sound warm, is that real?

The warm sound tube amps produce is real, and I've never gotten any distortion from mine. Sometimes some static due to the way the tube sits or dust settling on it, but a light tap on the offending tube with a pen fixes it straight away. I've owned a bunch of amps in the past and the sound from a tube is, imo, vastly superior to that of a solid state amp. The Lyr is actually a hybrid amp so you get the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 21:56:46
The Vali has a very slight warmth to them. Check the head-fi vali thread for more impressions. For me, it's great with the hd800 but mediocre with the hd600s. Also, you definitely need a good dac to get the most out of the vali.

What do you think about the Vali with Q701s and HE-400s? The Q701s are very analytical and bright which is nice for gaming. I wonder if the warmth from the vali would detract from that.

@noisyturtle: The total harmonic distortion with tube amps is a lot higher than solid state. That's what I meant. I am pretty sure (not completely) that the higher THD level with tube amps is what gives the sound that "warm" feel.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 22:04:05
What do you think about the Vali with Q701s and HE-400s? The Q701s are very analytical and bright which is nice for gaming. I wonder if the warmth from the vali would detract from that.

@noisyturtle: The total harmonic distortion with tube amps is a lot higher than solid state. That's what I meant. I am pretty sure (not completely) that the higher THD level with tube amps is what gives the sound that "warm" feel.

I don't own either of those headphones, so I can't really tell you. There are positive impressions for those two headphones on the Vali thread though. Don't read too much into the THDs of amps, they're not really a good indication of how an amp sounds, unless the THD is ridiculously high for some reason.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Wed, 04 December 2013, 14:28:41
Guys, should I buy the vali or magni. Such a tough call.

Amping Q701s and HE-400s.

Lyr, nothing beats tubes. Nothing.

/me exits thread never to return again.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: eisenhower on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:04:50
I don't own either of those headphones, so I can't really tell you. There are positive impressions for those two headphones on the Vali thread though. Don't read too much into the THDs of amps, they're not really a good indication of how an amp sounds, unless the THD is ridiculously high for some reason.

Amps aren't supposed to sound like anything. That is exactly why THD needs to be low.

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:28:36
I don't own either of those headphones, so I can't really tell you. There are positive impressions for those two headphones on the Vali thread though. Don't read too much into the THDs of amps, they're not really a good indication of how an amp sounds, unless the THD is ridiculously high for some reason.

Amps aren't supposed to sound like anything. That is exactly why THD needs to be low.



Oh please. Don't post stuff like that just to get your post count up.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: eisenhower on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:40:32
Oh please. Don't post stuff like that just to get your post count up.

Opposed to useful posts like this?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:41:55
Oh please. Don't post stuff like that just to get your post count up.

Opposed to useful posts like this?

I don't need to up my post count. But hey, why not while we're at it?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: eisenhower on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:56:59
Oh please. Don't post stuff like that just to get your post count up.

Opposed to useful posts like this?

I don't need to up my post count. But hey, why not while we're at it?

Why do I need to up my post count? I think you're upset that I know more about amplifiers than you (for example, I have never purchased anything by audio-gd).
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Thu, 05 December 2013, 19:28:34
Why do I need to up my post count? I think you're upset that I know more about amplifiers than you (for example, I have never purchased anything by audio-gd).

You're right... i'm probably just upset that you're more informed. Lets end it on that so that you can be satisfied.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: MonoSky on Thu, 05 December 2013, 19:28:55
Currently have a Aune T1 DAC with a Bravo V3 Tube Amp. I can't tell you much right now of what I feel, but when I got the Bravo V3 the trebles were too much for me. Luckly it had a built in equalizer. After some tuning it's sounds pretty good right now. With only the Aune T1, I felt that sounds were much more distinctive. I haven't tried any tube rolling yet. Maybe in the future. Also I am using the Ultrasone 780s right now. I really like the sound stage on it.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: eisenhower on Tue, 10 December 2013, 16:39:40
Currently have a Aune T1 DAC with a Bravo V3 Tube Amp. I can't tell you much right now of what I feel, but when I got the Bravo V3 the trebles were too much for me. Luckly it had a built in equalizer. After some tuning it's sounds pretty good right now. With only the Aune T1, I felt that sounds were much more distinctive. I haven't tried any tube rolling yet. Maybe in the future. Also I am using the Ultrasone 780s right now. I really like the sound stage on it.

The output impedance of those amps is too high for your headphones. Basically your Ultrasone's are sapping too much current from the amps.
A cmoy or a cheap FiiO  amp would would likely be an improvement in sound quality.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Tue, 10 December 2013, 19:00:02
Currently have a Aune T1 DAC with a Bravo V3 Tube Amp. I can't tell you much right now of what I feel, but when I got the Bravo V3 the trebles were too much for me. Luckly it had a built in equalizer. After some tuning it's sounds pretty good right now. With only the Aune T1, I felt that sounds were much more distinctive. I haven't tried any tube rolling yet. Maybe in the future. Also I am using the Ultrasone 780s right now. I really like the sound stage on it.

The output impedance of those amps is too high for your headphones. Basically your Ultrasone's are sapping too much current from the amps.
A cmoy or a cheap FiiO  amp would would likely be an improvement in sound quality.

would you be able to explain this statement with some facts and broken down equations?  I know I would appreciate it!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 15 December 2013, 23:55:54
currently using an audioengine D1 feeding a torpedo.

It's generally awesome and being transformer coupled avoids a lot of issues most OTL tube amps suffer from. There are also LEDs inside biasing the heater supply, which is a neat effect.

I built it mainly because there was a lot of very interesting design in this amp, and it sounds good too!

Sadly I couldn't use it with some of my headphones due to not having a mini to 1/4 adapter, so I made one.
(http://i.imm.io/1mo8l.jpeg)

I get some thermal microphonics when it turns on, which is pretty cool too. Haven't tried the E90CC computer tubes yet, but I have the mullards shown in the photos (and was the first to purchase and receive them)
You can see my tubes (those exact ones) in the product photos below:
http://beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=156

So: about output impedance of the amp, it should be at most 1/10 the impedance of the load it's driving. Haven't looked up the specs of listed products though.

Impedance matching is one reason I advocate building a buffer instead of an amp. For most headphones, there is enough voltage available to drive them at any reasonable loudness. Lots of DACs, especially modern ones run pretty hot. A big issue you run into though is lots of sources (especially DACs) can't deliver enough current for sensitive headphones, also impedance matching can be an issue (some headphones are harder to drive loads, etc.) A buffer will separate the source from the load. It presents an easy to drive load to the source, and can output pretty much whatever the HP needs (or many speakers). A buffer has unity gain (well, usually .95 or better). it also performs pretty much "perfectly" as an amplifier. Finally, they can deliver whatever current the HP needs.

This is primarily due to how transistors work as a material. A buffer or current gain stage is usually included as part of an amplifier design (they most often do voltage gain then feed it into an output stage that's a buffer to deliver the necessary current, though designs vary greatly).

So I advocate the following as an "ideal" system.
DAC -> attenuator (volume control) -> buffer -> headphones.

To see if you really need an amp (voltage amplification) or not, check what level your DAC outputs on the line out. Line level is usually 1.5V or 2V. My headphones have a sensitivity 100 DB/mW which translates to 100 dB at about half a volt (the headphones in question have an impedance of 35 Ohms)
Even AKG's K702 (notoriously low sensitivity) can deliver more than 105 DB for one Volt.
Even a high impedance headphone, like the Sennheiser HD650 will output 102 dB /V. They are high impedance, so impedance matching is required, but they are sensitive to make up for it.

What will not work are older headphones from the 1980's and 1970's with low sensitivities. Piezo headphones are a good example.


Back to impedance matching:
Here's a relevant RANE note on the topic. RANE makes excellent guides for understanding things, so if I even have a question, I just look at their list and see if they've answered it
http://www.rane.com/note124.html
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:31:30
I've been itching to upgrade from my Fiio E10 lately, to use with my DT990Pro 250ohm headphones.  I've been reading a fair bit recently, but not enough to make an easy decision.  I can assemble a kit quite readily (EE degree, multiple Megasquirt EFI builds and installations, etc), just don't have a huge bank of time to delve too deeply into forums.  I would enjoy building a kit much more than premade, but don't want to cut out good choices to have that.

Main use would be single-player gaming (I enjoy story and immersion), as I find I have less time to listen to music these days (though I did melt while listening to the new NiN album on release day).  The E10 and my DT990's made a huge difference over onboard audio and my old 32ohm Sennheisers, but I'm thinking it might be time to move on from the Fiio.

Music: Variety of electronic, rock, some rap, some classical (I rip my grandma's vinyl to CD)

What I've been looking at:
Schiit Modi/Magni or Vali (for fun!), if the Modi is enough of an upgrade from the E10's DAC (I think it might be?)
Matrix M-Stage (new version, Massdrop has it but drop might not go through)
Torpedo (amp only, use with E10 as DAC?)
...any other suggestions in the <$300 range?
O2/ODAC?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 06:54:00
Go for the Vali. Grab a titanium HD if you want a good dac as well as surround sound simulation for gaming, otherwise get the modi for mainly music.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: KangarooZombies on Sat, 28 December 2013, 04:17:06
Question for you guys really quickly.

My current setup is a Audioengine D1 + HiFiMan HE-400

If i wanted to add a dedicated amp to this setup, what would be my best option?

Or is it best to keep with the onboard D1 amp?

Thanks dudes

_kangaroo
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sat, 28 December 2013, 06:52:00
Question for you guys really quickly.

My current setup is a Audioengine D1 + HiFiMan HE-400

If i wanted to add a dedicated amp to this setup, what would be my best option?

Or is it best to keep with the onboard D1 amp?

Thanks dudes

_kangaroo

Depends on how much money you're willing to spend.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 28 December 2013, 14:01:49
I think it really depends on what you want added to your sound or if you want nothing at all "added".  The amp on the D1 is not spectacular.  The manufacturer's website offers no spec for the amp, but says it can drive headphones with impedances as low as 20 ohm... that is good.

Do you feel as if the headphone is not performing up to its measured specifications, or that you've heard a song you enjoy with more clarity on a different setup?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sat, 28 December 2013, 14:07:55
I think it really depends on what you want added to your sound or if you want nothing at all "added".

Do you feel as if the headphone is not performing up to its measured specifications, or that you've heard a song you enjoy with more clarity on a different setup?

Yeah... that's pretty important too xD.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: KangarooZombies on Sun, 29 December 2013, 00:58:14
I think it really depends on what you want added to your sound or if you want nothing at all "added".

Do you feel as if the headphone is not performing up to its measured specifications, or that you've heard a song you enjoy with more clarity on a different setup?

Yeah... that's pretty important too xD.

Good questions:

1. Budget, Id feel comfortable keeping it under 300, but ill consider if something is better, but slightly over that.

2. I feel that my setup has good clarity, but it is difficult for me to tell if there is more to be had.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Sniping on Sun, 29 December 2013, 02:18:51
AGD is great value if you want to go balanced which gives you a lot more power. http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB6/NFB6EN.htm

Alternatively, the Schiit Lyr is considered to be top notch for the HE-400, but it's more expensive than the NFB 6 ($380+shipping atm). Tube amps like the Lyr provide much less power but most people tend to agree that tube amps pair better with the HE-400. Try looking around to see if you can get a used Lyr though, I think that would be your best option.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sun, 29 December 2013, 08:12:03
Good questions:

1. Budget, Id feel comfortable keeping it under 300, but ill consider if something is better, but slightly over that.

2. I feel that my setup has good clarity, but it is difficult for me to tell if there is more to be had.

Since the only amp i've ever tried with the he-400 is the uha-6s mkii, all I can do is give you some suggestions for further research. Schiit magni is generally a good choice for entry level orthos, and perhaps the vali as well. The Lyr is great for orthos as well but it is quite an outdated design and a tad bit more expensive as well. The Asgard 2 is another choice, if you want a warmer sound and use with powered monitors and or IEMs.

The emotiva mini-x a-100 is a very very popular speaker amp for the he-400 but that will require you to get a cable and adapters to use with the amp.  The amp + cable might fit your budget though.

Of course there are the audio-gd products like Sniping mentioned. I only have experience with the nfb-10es2 and the nfb 11.32, but they are both very capable all in one units. The 11.32 or 15.32 would fit your budget very nicely and will also serve as a dac upgrade as well as a amp upgrade.

That's all I can think of for now... Sorry I can't be of much help, without hearing the he-400 on different amps. Perhaps another owner can chime in.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 03 January 2014, 22:46:00
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 04 January 2014, 00:51:06
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Sat, 04 January 2014, 01:16:52
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.

But at the very least it will benefit it, right? But not as much.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 04 January 2014, 03:44:28
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.

But at the very least it will benefit it, right? But not as much.

What is it and how are you measuring benefit?  Where did you get information?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Sat, 04 January 2014, 05:31:06
I replied on the other thread.
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?
Sorry if wrong thread. This question fits into general headphone issues.

Yes. Any good headphone requires a DAC and AMP to properly drive the signal.
The reason why audiophiles get a DAC is because good headphones pick up interference (motherboard signals etc).
Soundcards generally don't do enough in terms of isolating signals. DACs also just tend to be much better and more expensive.

I would go into this more but I am typing this on my tablet.

I don't think I have posted in this thread before so my current audio gear:
Audio Technica ATH W5000
Sennhesier HD 650
Audio Technical ATH M50

Burson Conductor

Certain DACs are great when paired with certain headphones.
In terms of benefit gained the price range and quality of your headphones will also determine the desired quality (and price) of your DAC. You won't need expensive DACs for sub $200 headphones but you will certainly need an expensive DAC, AMP, and other some audio gizmos if your headphones are very expensive otherwise you won't be able to properly drive that hi fi sound from your expensive headphones.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Sat, 04 January 2014, 05:55:21
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.

So I'm currently driving a pair of akg q701 and beyerdynamic dt880 250 ohms off an asus essence stx soundcard, which is said to be a pretty decent headphone amp, sans all the noise from inside the computer case. Still, I'm quite satisfied by the performance I'm getting from it so far.

Thinking of getting a Schiit Vali to try out, any opinion on that? I'll be running it from the soundcard -> amp > headphone.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 06:25:26
Someone should just start a guide or a sticky.. or something!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 06:56:36
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.

So I'm currently driving a pair of akg q701 and beyerdynamic dt880 250 ohms off an asus essence stx soundcard, which is said to be a pretty decent headphone amp, sans all the noise from inside the computer case. Still, I'm quite satisfied by the performance I'm getting from it so far.

Thinking of getting a Schiit Vali to try out, any opinion on that? I'll be running it from the soundcard -> amp > headphone.

Yep, vali has good synergy with bright headphones like q701 and dt880. Never heard the pairing myself, but I've read lots of positive impressions on the head-fi vali thread.

Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

1. Depends on what's good enough. If you have a mid-fi headphone like dt880/990, hd600/650, q701, X1, mad dogs, etc etc, it deserves a decent amp and dac.

2. Maybe. Depends on the headphones and what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 04 January 2014, 14:13:08
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.

So I'm currently driving a pair of akg q701 and beyerdynamic dt880 250 ohms off an asus essence stx soundcard, which is said to be a pretty decent headphone amp, sans all the noise from inside the computer case. Still, I'm quite satisfied by the performance I'm getting from it so far.

Thinking of getting a Schiit Vali to try out, any opinion on that? I'll be running it from the soundcard -> amp > headphone.

The vali has been said to do great things with the Q701.  One thing to be sure is that your sound card has a low noise line-level output.  Please use the line-out if you have it available.  The Vali's noise floor is not very low, and this works well with low sensitivity headphones and orthos.  The Q701's sensitivity is not high enough to notice the noise, but it does not help anything to have a noisy DAC/line level signal.

Hope this helps :)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 16:11:33
Do you need a DAC/AMP if 1. Your headphone is good enough or 2. You have a fancy sound card?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no.

No.

Yes.  Yes! No... Yes ------ no.

No.

::EDIT:: Maybe.

So I'm currently driving a pair of akg q701 and beyerdynamic dt880 250 ohms off an asus essence stx soundcard, which is said to be a pretty decent headphone amp, sans all the noise from inside the computer case. Still, I'm quite satisfied by the performance I'm getting from it so far.

Thinking of getting a Schiit Vali to try out, any opinion on that? I'll be running it from the soundcard -> amp > headphone.

The vali has been said to do great things with the Q701.  One thing to be sure is that your sound card has a low noise line-level output.  Please use the line-out if you have it available.  The Vali's noise floor is not very low, and this works well with low sensitivity headphones and orthos.  The Q701's sensitivity is not high enough to notice the noise, but it does not help anything to have a noisy DAC/line level signal.

Hope this helps :)

I'm using the Q701 with the Magni right now as we speak and it sounds amazing. It would sound great with the Vali too because these are very cold sounding headphones in my opinion.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: digi on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:10:44
delete
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:22:42

Yep, vali has good synergy with bright headphones like q701 and dt880. Never heard the pairing myself, but I've read lots of positive impressions on the head-fi vali thread.


The vali has been said to do great things with the Q701.  One thing to be sure is that your sound card has a low noise line-level output.  Please use the line-out if you have it available.  The Vali's noise floor is not very low, and this works well with low sensitivity headphones and orthos.  The Q701's sensitivity is not high enough to notice the noise, but it does not help anything to have a noisy DAC/line level signal.

Hope this helps :)

I'm using the Q701 with the Magni right now as we speak and it sounds amazing. It would sound great with the Vali too because these are very cold sounding headphones in my opinion.

Thanks for all the opinions. I had already been poring over the Vali thread at headfi for the past week, and was more or less set on getting it eventually, but thought it would be good check in here with you experts at geekhack :D

One of the main things that I was hesitant about was that the essence is said to be a great soundcard for headphone usage, and wondered if getting a seperate amp was worth it. Still, the Vali is affordable enough to just give it a whirl, so I'd probably put in an order.

@Binge,

I'm looking at the spec sheet of the soundcard, and it seems like it doesn't have a line level output? I was planning to run a connection using the headphone out to the vali, since the rcas are already being used by my speakers; is this a major concern, or just a small niggle that could probably be ignored? As I understand it (which is based on the cursory reading of a layman), the headphone out on the essence has a pretty low SNR, though the RCA connections would understandably have a cleaner signal.

But it looks like I won't be able to leave both speakers and headphones connected at the same time if I use the RCA connectors > Amp, unless I shell out for something like the Asgard 2/Lyr, or give up on the Schiit and go for the Bravo Ocean (not particularly keen on that).

Copied from the site page.
Analog Output
1 x 6.3 mm jack (1/4") Headphone out
2 x RCA (Un-Balanced)
Analog Input
1 x 6.3 mm jack (1/4") (Line-in/ Mic-in combo)
Digital
1 x S/PDIF out (1 x Optical / Coaxial combo)
1 x Front-Panel Header
1 x Aux in (4-pin header)

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 04 January 2014, 23:39:38
I just made a DAC this past week, so there was an interesting performance issue that popped up.  If I set the output of this DAC to drive line level it would have significantly better performance, but if I set the output to drive 32 ohm headphones it would not do so well.  I've seen this as a trend with most DAC ICs on the market, so it is safe to assume using a headphone out instead of a line-out signal may adversely affect the audio quality.  This is all something that needs to be tested as you may not be able to perceive the difference.

One option you could do to get both headphone and speakers is to check out the Aune T1.  I have found it to be a great companion with many headphones, and a fun little guy.  He pairs well with the Vali as well :)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Sun, 05 January 2014, 05:29:17
I just made a DAC this past week, so there was an interesting performance issue that popped up.  If I set the output of this DAC to drive line level it would have significantly better performance, but if I set the output to drive 32 ohm headphones it would not do so well.  I've seen this as a trend with most DAC ICs on the market, so it is safe to assume using a headphone out instead of a line-out signal may adversely affect the audio quality.  This is all something that needs to be tested as you may not be able to perceive the difference.

One option you could do to get both headphone and speakers is to check out the Aune T1.  I have found it to be a great companion with many headphones, and a fun little guy.  He pairs well with the Vali as well :)

The Aune T1 was definitely one of my considered options; though the T1 would render my soundcard pointless with its usb input (hate to waste a good piece of gear).

I'm pretty new to the audio game, so I don't really know what a good amp can do for my music, but I'd like to begin with something simple like the Vali which limits my options, and avoid falling down the rabbit hole of tube rolling (or eventually get both). I'm gonna have to sleep on that a little, but your advice is much appreciated :D
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:31:30
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:33:32
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:35:20
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

so your saying I should just start sending you a percentage of my paycheck every two weeks?? :P

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:35:27
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

Hmm maybe get a portable dac like a Fiio and yea youtube music has terrible compression.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:36:09
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

so your saying I should just start sending you a percentage of my paycheck every two weeks?? :P

Maybe he's offering you a free tester  :p
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:42:30
What could Binge mean???  :))
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:56:32
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

so your saying I should just start sending you a percentage of my paycheck every two weeks?? :P

Maybe he's offering you a free tester  :p

If its worth having its worth paying for!! Free doesn't help mad scientist buy groceries :P
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 07 January 2014, 10:47:13
I'm looking into an amp/DAC solution primarily for headphone listening, but would like something with pre-amp or amp outputs to drive some desktop speakers.  Has anyone used the Decware products, or the cheaper (!) options from Woo Audio?  I'm leaning towards the Decware Taboo, as it has dual headphone jacks so my son and I can listen without disturbing the household, but I'm open to suggestions.  Would like to try tube amps, which is why I'm looking at models like these.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 07 January 2014, 10:52:08
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.


Will it have low output impedance (<2ohm)? Will it be DIY and cheap? Will it work with no batteries?  :thumb:
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Tue, 07 January 2014, 16:10:13
Got a pair of Grado SR80i and a Fiios E11 in the mail today. I know the Grados are low impedance but heard they sound better amped anyway. Might not have gotten the E11 is I didnt have Amazon gift cards from Christmas but, cant hurt to have it. 
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 07 January 2014, 16:18:08
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

Would it be better to get your DAC or the bravo v2's from md for $50? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bravo-v2-headphone-amp
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Tue, 07 January 2014, 16:31:30
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.


Will it have low output impedance (<2ohm)? Will it be DIY and cheap? Will it work with no batteries?  :thumb:

It does not support devices which have an impedance below 16ohms.  It works via usb connection and is powered off of that connection without the use of batteries.

Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

Would it be better to get your DAC or the bravo v2's from md for $50? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bravo-v2-headphone-amp

Different devices.  The Bravo is an amplifier, and my device is a combination Digital to Analog converter as well as a low power headphone amp.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 07 January 2014, 16:34:14
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.


Will it have low output impedance (<2ohm)? Will it be DIY and cheap? Will it work with no batteries?  :thumb:

It does not support devices which have an impedance below 16ohms.  It works via usb connection and is powered off of that connection without the use of batteries.

Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

Would it be better to get your DAC or the bravo v2's from md for $50? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bravo-v2-headphone-amp

Different devices.  The Bravo is an amplifier, and my device is a combination Digital to Analog converter as well as a low power headphone amp.

I think I want one. :D
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Asininity on Tue, 07 January 2014, 17:58:17
I just got a pair of DT 990 Pro to go with my Aune T1 AMP/DAC.

I'm impressed.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 07 January 2014, 18:13:34
Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.


Will it have low output impedance (<2ohm)? Will it be DIY and cheap? Will it work with no batteries?  :thumb:

It does not support devices which have an impedance below 16ohms.  It works via usb connection and is powered off of that connection without the use of batteries.

Ok my laptop absolutely sucks in the sound output department.....I need something to help it out but I don't know what. Although it might just be the fact I'm listening to youtube tracks.....lots of snap, crackle, pop, hiss....

I'm going to be producing DAC/amp solutions for laptop and PC here in a bit. :3 may be just the thing you're looking for.

Would it be better to get your DAC or the bravo v2's from md for $50? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bravo-v2-headphone-amp

Different devices.  The Bravo is an amplifier, and my device is a combination Digital to Analog converter as well as a low power headphone amp.

looks like you have a buyer!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: theeattre on Tue, 07 January 2014, 18:40:27
just got the magni/modi stack. using with my nvx xpt100. kind of blown away by the difference it made and the quality for my somewhat limited budget.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 07 January 2014, 18:47:07
Is the Darkvoice 336SE on offer from Massdrop a good deal?  Description says it's suitable for a pre-amp as well as a headphone amp.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 07 January 2014, 19:37:17
just got the magni/modi stack. using with my nvx xpt100. kind of blown away by the difference it made and the quality for my somewhat limited budget.

where did you get them from? I'm looking for a low buget set
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Tue, 07 January 2014, 19:40:32
just got the magni/modi stack. using with my nvx xpt100. kind of blown away by the difference it made and the quality for my somewhat limited budget.

where did you get them from? I'm looking for a low buget set

probably from schiit direct.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: theeattre on Tue, 07 January 2014, 19:41:34
just got the magni/modi stack. using with my nvx xpt100. kind of blown away by the difference it made and the quality for my somewhat limited budget.

where did you get them from? I'm looking for a low buget set

amazon. should have probably just ordered from schiit directly (magni shipped from amazon, modi/pyst cables shipped from schiit. they came a day apart. but i had a giftcard from amazon, so...). imho 220 is budget in this nutso audiophile world.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Sniping on Tue, 07 January 2014, 21:10:46
Not an amp or a dac but has anyone seen the Hifiman stats yet?

The shape looks a bit odd but the wood cups on the 560 looks great.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57616687-47/hifimans-advanced-headphone-tech-at-ces-2014-improves-sound-quality/
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 07 January 2014, 21:16:46
Not an amp or a dac but has anyone seen the Hifiman stats yet?

The shape looks a bit odd but the wood cups on the 560 looks great.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57616687-47/hifimans-advanced-headphone-tech-at-ces-2014-improves-sound-quality/

They're still orthos.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 07 January 2014, 21:20:36
Anybody heard of the chinese company SMSL?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-FORT-PCM2704-USB-MUSIC-DAC-Sound-card-Headphone-Earphone-Amplifier-/200953220627?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec9bece13

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-022-mini-DAC-USB-input-coaxial-optical-output-TE7022-24Bit-96K-/200952723608?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec9b73898

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-793II-DIR9001-PCM1793-OPA2134-Coax-Optical-MINI-DAC-Headphone-Amp-S-/221347331863?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3389543f17

Seems like it'll be ****ty quality like all other chinese products, but it is

Quote
case is made of pure aluminum, cut by CNC automatic machine tool

I know more reptuable DAC/AMPs are better, but do these outwright suck?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 07 January 2014, 21:26:50

Seems like it'll be ****ty quality like all other chinese products, but it is


That's quite a statement you got there...
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 07 January 2014, 21:29:40

Seems like it'll be ****ty quality like all other chinese products, but it is


That's quite a statement you got there...

Its pretty true. Many chinese manufactures don't prioritize quality, they just want to keep their costs down, its most obvious when they employ really cheap sweatshop workers. They try to keep their cost down so they can compete with better quality but more expensive products.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: thegunner100 on Tue, 07 January 2014, 21:44:45
The audio-gd cases are a bit cheap looking... but the stuff that's inside is definitely not lacking in quality.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 07 January 2014, 23:20:49
Anybody heard of the chinese company SMSL?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-FORT-PCM2704-USB-MUSIC-DAC-Sound-card-Headphone-Earphone-Amplifier-/200953220627?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec9bece13

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-022-mini-DAC-USB-input-coaxial-optical-output-TE7022-24Bit-96K-/200952723608?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec9b73898

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-793II-DIR9001-PCM1793-OPA2134-Coax-Optical-MINI-DAC-Headphone-Amp-S-/221347331863?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3389543f17

Seems like it'll be ****ty quality like all other chinese products, but it is

Quote
case is made of pure aluminum, cut by CNC automatic machine tool

I know more reptuable DAC/AMPs are better, but do these outwright suck?

So after doing some research, these are legit, they work, but they're chinese versions of regular components. They are prone to breaking but they know that and the CS is great
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: meiosis on Tue, 07 January 2014, 23:38:57
just got the magni/modi stack. using with my nvx xpt100. kind of blown away by the difference it made and the quality for my somewhat limited budget.

Mine are coming in 12 hours :D (normal time for UPS guy)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Wed, 08 January 2014, 00:13:52
(http://shanylla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/some-people-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn.png)


MONSTER CABLE ANYBODY?
ehehehehehe.

on and don't forget your coat hanger on the way out.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: theeattre on Wed, 08 January 2014, 01:23:39
just got the magni/modi stack. using with my nvx xpt100. kind of blown away by the difference it made and the quality for my somewhat limited budget.

Mine are coming in 12 hours :D (normal time for UPS guy)

awesome! was impressed with all of the pics but holding them is really something else.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: theeattre on Wed, 08 January 2014, 01:34:53
love that they're small enough to fit on the base of my monitor. (sorry for the quality. :/ )
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Wed, 08 January 2014, 08:18:15
Ive been thinking about DAC's lately.

Im torn between going with Fiio D03k and using my mobo's optical out....or perhaps going with the Schiit modi which is a USB plug and play type of solution. My amp would be a Fiios E11 for the short term and probably a Schiit Magni coming up.

The modi looks cool but I have some reservations about the whole "driver-less plug and play" usb thing. Will I run into any compatibility problems in terms of general computing such as gaming?

The D03k is much cheaper and looks like it would fit my needs quite well. Anyone have any experience with both of these?

[edit] Looking for reviews on the D03K is kind of frustrating. Most of them are people hooking up components to their TVs and old ass legacy receivers, could care less about that. Im wondering more about the performance out of a motherboard TOSlink, into a headphone amp, and into a nice set of headphones for music and gaming.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Wed, 08 January 2014, 10:24:44
Ive been thinking about DAC's lately.

Im torn between going with Fiio D03k and using my mobo's optical out....or perhaps going with the Schiit modi which is a USB plug and play type of solution. My amp would be a Fiios E11 for the short term and probably a Schiit Magni coming up.

The modi looks cool but I have some reservations about the whole "driver-less plug and play" usb thing. Will I run into any compatibility problems in terms of general computing such as gaming?

The D03k is much cheaper and looks like it would fit my needs quite well. Anyone have any experience with both of these?

[edit] Looking for reviews on the D03K is kind of frustrating. Most of them are people hooking up components to their TVs and old ass legacy receivers, could care less about that. Im wondering more about the performance out of a motherboard TOSlink, into a headphone amp, and into a nice set of headphones for music and gaming.

I haven't used the Fiio D03K, but I've really enjoyed listening to music using an optical cable from my PC to a Fiio E17 amp/DAC.  I was considering the desktop power amp from Fiio, but the E17 provides plenty of power to drive either the Sennheiser HD598 or the ATH-M50 headphones I have. 

I run a USB cable as well as the optical connection, to keep the E17 charged.  Not sure if the SPDIF cable really gives that much cleaner audio, but it was cheap.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:04:54
Anybody heard of the chinese company SMSL?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-FORT-PCM2704-USB-MUSIC-DAC-Sound-card-Headphone-Earphone-Amplifier-/200953220627?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec9bece13

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-022-mini-DAC-USB-input-coaxial-optical-output-TE7022-24Bit-96K-/200952723608?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec9b73898

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-793II-DIR9001-PCM1793-OPA2134-Coax-Optical-MINI-DAC-Headphone-Amp-S-/221347331863?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3389543f17

Seems like it'll be ****ty quality like all other chinese products, but it is

Quote
case is made of pure aluminum, cut by CNC automatic machine tool

I know more reptuable DAC/AMPs are better, but do these outwright suck?

So after doing some research, these are legit, they work, but they're chinese versions of regular components. They are prone to breaking but they know that and the CS is great

They are advertising legit DACs and USB-interfaces included in their work but there is more work that goes into these devices than just the IC packages on a board.  Ground management and choice of filtering are all things one must consider.  For the price it would not be a bad place to tinker and hear some DACs that are out there, but they may represent only a high percentage of what those DACs can really do.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Wed, 08 January 2014, 22:52:17
Ive been thinking about DAC's lately.

Im torn between going with Fiio D03k and using my mobo's optical out....or perhaps going with the Schiit modi which is a USB plug and play type of solution. My amp would be a Fiios E11 for the short term and probably a Schiit Magni coming up.

The modi looks cool but I have some reservations about the whole "driver-less plug and play" usb thing. Will I run into any compatibility problems in terms of general computing such as gaming?

The D03k is much cheaper and looks like it would fit my needs quite well. Anyone have any experience with both of these?

[edit] Looking for reviews on the D03K is kind of frustrating. Most of them are people hooking up components to their TVs and old ass legacy receivers, could care less about that. Im wondering more about the performance out of a motherboard TOSlink, into a headphone amp, and into a nice set of headphones for music and gaming.

I don't know much about the Schiit Modi but you should stick with SPDIF over USB (generally speaking).
There's quite a huge debate about this and you'll probably want to read more about this.
These are just my 2 cents and just generalities:
1) Good USB DACs are still very rare
2) You generally want to avoid using USB for DACs under $600 and preferably under 1k.
3) USB always has some degree of jitter. Less jitter on better DACs. (There's a bit more to this).
4) Your DAC needs to support USB asynchronous mode otherwise it will definitely lose out to SPDIF.
5) You need to consider how the USB is powered and routed (on the DAC itself and also from your motherboard to the DAC). This factors into how clean the sound is.
6) USB DACs can also occasionally cause your computer to crash due to driver issues and cause that IRQ less than equal bluescreen. Although this actually depends on the chip (the sabre chip on my DAC was notorious for this issue until they slowly patched it on every DAC that carried this chip)

If it's driver-less plug and play ... it's either really good bang for your buck or it really sucks. I'd vote for the latter.

Again your setup can also heavily preface and/or invalidate these statements.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Thu, 09 January 2014, 07:16:08
Ive been thinking about DAC's lately.

Im torn between going with Fiio D03k and using my mobo's optical out....or perhaps going with the Schiit modi which is a USB plug and play type of solution. My amp would be a Fiios E11 for the short term and probably a Schiit Magni coming up.

The modi looks cool but I have some reservations about the whole "driver-less plug and play" usb thing. Will I run into any compatibility problems in terms of general computing such as gaming?

The D03k is much cheaper and looks like it would fit my needs quite well. Anyone have any experience with both of these?

[edit] Looking for reviews on the D03K is kind of frustrating. Most of them are people hooking up components to their TVs and old ass legacy receivers, could care less about that. Im wondering more about the performance out of a motherboard TOSlink, into a headphone amp, and into a nice set of headphones for music and gaming.

I don't know much about the Schiit Modi but you should stick with SPDIF over USB (generally speaking).
There's quite a huge debate about this and you'll probably want to read more about this.
These are just my 2 cents and just generalities:
1) Good USB DACs are still very rare
2) You generally want to avoid using USB for DACs under $600 and preferably under 1k.
3) USB always has some degree of jitter. Less jitter on better DACs. (There's a bit more to this).
4) Your DAC needs to support USB asynchronous mode otherwise it will definitely lose out to SPDIF.
5) You need to consider how the USB is powered and routed (on the DAC itself and also from your motherboard to the DAC). This factors into how clean the sound is.
6) USB DACs can also occasionally cause your computer to crash due to driver issues and cause that IRQ less than equal bluescreen. Although this actually depends on the chip (the sabre chip on my DAC was notorious for this issue until they slowly patched it on every DAC that carried this chip)

If it's driver-less plug and play ... it's either really good bang for your buck or it really sucks. I'd vote for the latter.

Again your setup can also heavily preface and/or invalidate these statements.

Thanks for the reply. I was doing alot of reading last night, and even though the Schiit Modi reviews pretty well I came to many of your same conclusions. I also dont like how the Modi's usb input is also what is powering the unit.

I decided the best thing for me to do when I pull the trigger... is totally ditching the usb solutions and also ditching my onboard sound. I think Im going to go with a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD as my "DAC". It has dedicated analog out over RCA and I read the internal DAC on it is very good. Going to run that right into a Schiit Magni amp and be done with it. This solution is only $50 more, I think its worth it for my application.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Thu, 09 January 2014, 10:31:29
More
I don't know much about the Schiit Modi but you should stick with SPDIF over USB (generally speaking).
There's quite a huge debate about this and you'll probably want to read more about this.
These are just my 2 cents and just generalities:
1) Good USB DACs are still very rare
2) You generally want to avoid using USB for DACs under $600 and preferably under 1k.
3) USB always has some degree of jitter. Less jitter on better DACs. (There's a bit more to this).
4) Your DAC needs to support USB asynchronous mode otherwise it will definitely lose out to SPDIF.
5) You need to consider how the USB is powered and routed (on the DAC itself and also from your motherboard to the DAC). This factors into how clean the sound is.
6) USB DACs can also occasionally cause your computer to crash due to driver issues and cause that IRQ less than equal bluescreen. Although this actually depends on the chip (the sabre chip on my DAC was notorious for this issue until they slowly patched it on every DAC that carried this chip)

If it's driver-less plug and play ... it's either really good bang for your buck or it really sucks. I'd vote for the latter.

Again your setup can also heavily preface and/or invalidate these statements.

From building a USB DAC I can confirm and deny a few things said.

1) Good USB dacs are not rare.  The same DAC circuitry that is on sound cards/coaxial/spdif exists on USB dacs.
2) Avoiding USB devices based on price tag is ignorant of advances in technology.
3) Jitter can be corrected, and should be below the tolerable level for the DAC.  If the DAC is bad because it can not handle a little jitter it is likely not a very good DAC.  If it can't handle jitter and it is a very good DAC you will only see it on COAX/PCI/PCI-E devices.
4) asynchronous USB is supported by a protocol/standard called i2S.  This brings be back to point #1.  Very FEW good USB interfaces exist at a reasonable price point which support i2S.  That is not until recently.  Until the end of this past year sub $20/qt.1000+ parts for i2S USB interfaces were essentially mythical.  A LOT of the i2S interfaces allowed for much more than simple USB to i2S which drove up the cost.  There are now devices on the market which do less, take up less space, and allow devices to operate USB asynch to well above the spec of the DAC.
5) It is engineered into the spec of USB ICs/DAC to a degree and largely depends on the quality of the motherboard/3.3V/5V supply on your PSU.  If your motherboard's usb controller and PSU are terrible then you might as well get some other solution unless the ICs in your USB DAC are of exceptional quality.  My simple protodac is usb powered and has no noise floor/distortion in any regard -.05% below spec of the DAC.  USB is not the cause of the distortion, but rather other factors.
6) Any device can cause issues with a PC.  Any device with unstable drivers or firmware issues can cause problems in various OS.  USB DACs are not alone in this.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Thu, 09 January 2014, 14:44:22
^ I think that's fair and really well said.

Although, for #5 I didn't say that USB was the cause of the distortion but you did outline the process out very well nonetheless.

As I mentioned, these are all generalities until you actually factor in a specific DAC with the quality of your existing setup and cans.

There's alot of people in the SPDIF vs USB camp, don't get me wrong I don't particularly advocate one over the other and I appreciate having USB functionality on my DAC for things like laptops (although mine isn't very portable anyways  :p).

The thing about SPDIF vs USB is that windows drivers only natively support up to 24/96 on USB (of course realistically 24/96 is really good and 192khz is just overkill among other things). If you want to go higher, you need to install special drivers. Some USB DACs also require drivers to be installed regardless anyways. SPDIF doesn't have this limitation to begin with and it doesn't require special drivers that you need to install on the side. So yes, any device with unstable drivers or firmware can cause problems but USB is more likely to run into hiccups over SPDIF because there's more overhead and special drivers involved with USB sound output. This, along with all the crappy controllers utilized were some of the issues back when they first implemented USBs into DACs.

Most people say that on the same DAC, SPDIF and USB sound the same. I would agree with this. This is very subjective though and I don’t think there have actually been any conclusive studies done quite yet. I think this does hold true as long the quality of the cans, music and the system overall is consistent with what should be used for that particular quality tier of DAC. I know this sounds redundant but if you are listening to lossy music or using very crappy cans, for example, then there’s really no merit in comparing USB vs SPDIF.

There’s also that whole native USB driver spiel that needs to be factored in. Due to all of this, I think it's still important to consider USB vs SPDIF implementation for DACs at various pricepoints. At lower price points, I'm not really sure how the newer USB DACs perform compared to SPDIF based ones. I know the older ones had more issues and were often bottle-necked by some crappy controller. I think even with all the improvements we've seen, there are still some lingering issues that haven't been completely resolved. Mid to high price points DACs are generally well engineered anyways so both USB and SPDIF will sound great - especially if the DAC supports both USB and SPDIF.

When it comes to picking a DAC, I would say just keep in mind the whole SPDIF vs USB thing.  From my experience and what I've seen and read, USB tends to have more issues over SPDIF. This was especially true from (2010-2012). I personally think USB still has more issues over SPDIF generally.

The more important thing about DAC picking is to make sure it matches well with a particular set of can(s) that you possess or plan to buy. Certain DACs pair very well with certain headphones.

It’s kinda like keyboards actually. We all start from an entry level mechanical keyboard only to realize it's bad and then get something better. Then you go crazy with keycaps and other various things. We all lust after those expensive custom made keyboards. I guess what I'm saying is that if you’re planning on making the trip to hi-fi, it’s well worth the money to invest in a DAC that costs more money because that $100-$200 DAC (not that these DACs aren't good) is going to be like your first entry level mechanical keyboard.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Thu, 09 January 2014, 16:17:43
I really like the concept of SPDIF DACs, and they do require that you have an SPDIF source... like a sound card.  One of my friends uses a SPDIF with little issue, and other just couldn't get his SPDIF to function.  They ended up exchanging information and the right sound card was purchased.

In the future I see SPDIF DACs being more expensive and less popular.  USB3 will eventually be utilized for high end digital audio streaming, and we may see the end of alternative means for PC use.  SPDIF and COAX will probably be more suited for home theater.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Thu, 09 January 2014, 18:44:39
^ I think that's fair and really well said.

Although, for #5 I didn't say that USB was the cause of the distortion but you did outline the process out very well nonetheless.

As I mentioned, these are all generalities until you actually factor in a specific DAC with the quality of your existing setup and cans.

There's alot of people in the SPDIF vs USB camp, don't get me wrong I don't particularly advocate one over the other and I appreciate having USB functionality on my DAC for things like laptops (although mine isn't very portable anyways  :p).

The thing about SPDIF vs USB is that windows drivers only natively support up to 24/96 on USB (of course realistically 24/96 is really good and 192khz is just overkill among other things). If you want to go higher, you need to install special drivers. Some USB DACs also require drivers to be installed regardless anyways. SPDIF doesn't have this limitation to begin with and it doesn't require special drivers that you need to install on the side. So yes, any device with unstable drivers or firmware can cause problems but USB is more likely to run into hiccups over SPDIF because there's more overhead and special drivers involved with USB sound output. This, along with all the crappy controllers utilized were some of the issues back when they first implemented USBs into DACs.

Most people say that on the same DAC, SPDIF and USB sound the same. I would agree with this. This is very subjective though and I don’t think there have actually been any conclusive studies done quite yet. I think this does hold true as long the quality of the cans, music and the system overall is consistent with what should be used for that particular quality tier of DAC. I know this sounds redundant but if you are listening to lossy music or using very crappy cans, for example, then there’s really no merit in comparing USB vs SPDIF.

There’s also that whole native USB driver spiel that needs to be factored in. Due to all of this, I think it's still important to consider USB vs SPDIF implementation for DACs at various pricepoints. At lower price points, I'm not really sure how the newer USB DACs perform compared to SPDIF based ones. I know the older ones had more issues and were often bottle-necked by some crappy controller. I think even with all the improvements we've seen, there are still some lingering issues that haven't been completely resolved. Mid to high price points DACs are generally well engineered anyways so both USB and SPDIF will sound great - especially if the DAC supports both USB and SPDIF.

When it comes to picking a DAC, I would say just keep in mind the whole SPDIF vs USB thing.  From my experience and what I've seen and read, USB tends to have more issues over SPDIF. This was especially true from (2010-2012). I personally think USB still has more issues over SPDIF generally.

The more important thing about DAC picking is to make sure it matches well with a particular set of can(s) that you possess or plan to buy. Certain DACs pair very well with certain headphones.

It’s kinda like keyboards actually. We all start from an entry level mechanical keyboard only to realize it's bad and then get something better. Then you go crazy with keycaps and other various things. We all lust after those expensive custom made keyboards. I guess what I'm saying is that if you’re planning on making the trip to hi-fi, it’s well worth the money to invest in a DAC that costs more money because that $100-$200 DAC (not that these DACs aren't good) is going to be like your first entry level mechanical keyboard.

What do you think of my choice?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Thu, 09 January 2014, 18:54:19
What do you think of my choice?

I just read up on the card.  It is still up to date with DAC technology, and while some USB solutions offer superior DAC they just simply aren't as clean.  I would argue that something like the ODAC would trounce it, but that's truly a matter of opinion as most people would not be able to understand (hear) the difference at 24bit/96kHz which is what that sound-card is rated as its mode of greatest performance.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:12:52
What do you think of my choice?

I just read up on the card.  It is still up to date with DAC technology, and while some USB solutions offer superior DAC they just simply aren't as clean.  I would argue that something like the ODAC would trounce it, but that's truly a matter of opinion as most people would not be able to understand (hear) the difference at 24bit/96kHz which is what that sound-card is rated as its mode of greatest performance.

Cool, thanks. I think Im going to like my set up quite a bit. At this point, flac files on my lg g2 -> fiio e11 -> grado sr80i is amazing to me compared to any head phone set up I have had before...so being a headphone newb Im pretty excited about this whole thing.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: meiosis on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:41:54
I've been using my schitt modi/magni stack for two days, ever so often the left earphone cuts out and I need to readjust the positioning of the cable?/ or the slightest touch will make it work again, does anyone know what the problem might be?

RCA cable?

The Modi ._.?

The Magni :|?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:45:35
I've been looking into some sort of amp/DAC combo (or separates) since I started getting tinnitus from listening to Sennhiser HD598 headphones cranked up too high (compensating for a noisy environment, didn't work out very well...).  For Christmas I got a Mackie Blackjack, as I've been doing some home recording using a desktop mike - too early to call it podcasting.  The Blackjack is a desktop 2-channel audio mixer that supports phantom power for microphones, USB connection to record sessions, and has a headphone jack for monitoring.  When not recording I use it for general desktop amplification.

Also around X-Mas, I traded the Sennheiser's to my wife in exchange for her ATH-M50 headphones, giving the closed-back style a trial.  Yesterday, I was reading over this thread and listening through the test track list posted by Binge, and oh... my... gosh.  The Mackie drives the M50's soooo nicely.  The Budos Band "Unbroken, Unshaven" was like being at the coolest jazz club imaginable, and then listening to Imogen Heap - Aha! was like mainlining mass amounts of narcotics (as I imagine that would feel, anyway...).

I'm sold on closed headphones, at least for the foreseeable.  Next I want to try a pair of Mad Dogs, and maybe splurge on an amp/DAC combo from Maverick, just to hear "tube sound" for myself.  Time to sell some keyboards.  Well, a couple that I don't use.  Much.   :-\

Lovely thread, tops in my reading list every day!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: fourzeropooh on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:48:07
Is it better to have a DAC Amp combo or two seperate DACs and Amps?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:53:00
Also wanted to add another track to the recommended listening list:

Passenger - Let Her Go

Still finding new depths in my favorite songs.  Just listening to Morgan Page - The Longest Road (Deadmau5 Remix) which is a bass daydream with the ATH-M50 headphones.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Thu, 09 January 2014, 20:45:54
What do you think of my choice?

I tend to advocate saving money and investing in higher priced audio equipment slowly over time.
That's just me though haha  :p.

I think for what you want the card is decent but I would personally advocate a DAC + AMP setup over a sound card setup though.
You do need a better headphones and/or better audio system to take advantage of a higher priced DAC though otherwise you won't "hear it"
It's worth considering buying a higher priced DAC because of that.

That being said these are some of the good entry level DACs:

The Schiit Modi is USB powered. Most audiophiles don't like USB powered things but it's probably great for what it offers at under 100 dollars. HOLY CRAP it has a 1/4 native jack though. *mind blown/that's crazy* That being said I would still skip to the BiFrost (350 dollars).
At the 220-250 dollar price range the Audio-gd NFB 12 is said to be great entry level DAC.
The O2+ODAC COMBO (250-290) mentioned above is frequently mentioned and said to be great.
The TEAC UD-H01 (Just shy of 300) is also said to be really good bang for your buck.
I've listened to some of the Musical Fidelity M-series products and I quite like them. I would imagine the V90-DAC is also worth considering (Probably shy of 300 as well)

I think the slight premium that you pay for these devices is worth it because these devices can probably future proof you up to headphones around the 200-300 dollar range. I suspect you can even go up to some mid-fi 500 dollar range cans.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Novus on Thu, 09 January 2014, 21:26:08
I've been using my schitt modi/magni stack for two days, ever so often the left earphone cuts out and I need to readjust the positioning of the cable?/ or the slightest touch will make it work again, does anyone know what the problem might be?

RCA cable?

The Modi ._.?

The Magni :|?

This could be anything. See if you can isolate the issue by testing your components on other systems separately. My guess is that your headphone jack is dirty. Try some contact cleaner.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Thu, 09 January 2014, 22:15:52
I've been using my schitt modi/magni stack for two days, ever so often the left earphone cuts out and I need to readjust the positioning of the cable?/ or the slightest touch will make it work again, does anyone know what the problem might be?

RCA cable?

The Modi ._.?

The Magni :|?

Could what cable?  Your headphone cable or RCA?

Sounds like a cable issue, or dirt on a connector.

Is it better to have a DAC Amp combo or two seperate DACs and Amps?

A matter of preference.  I like items which have both and can drive an extra amplifier in case I want to let someone else have a listen.

So that is a DAC+AMP w/additional RCA or stereo line outs.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 13:22:41
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 20 January 2014, 13:26:16
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?

Which amp?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 13:29:01
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?

Which amp?

Bravo V3
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 20 January 2014, 13:36:12
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?

Which amp?

Bravo V3

Oh yea that....why'd they remove it so soon?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 13:39:24
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?

Which amp?

Bravo V3

Oh yea that....why'd they remove it so soon?

Well the drop ended 3 weeks go and they sent out an email today saying production wouldn't even begin until after the Chinese New Year, which they said would be another 2 weeks so I.....cancelled. :|
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Mon, 20 January 2014, 13:53:24
Well the drop ended 3 weeks go and they sent out an email today saying production wouldn't even begin until after the Chinese New Year, which they said would be another 2 weeks so I.....cancelled. :|

That's a bummer, I've never had any issues with Massdrop and delays
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Mon, 20 January 2014, 14:43:17
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?
Spend an extra 30 and go with schiit
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:00:24
So massdrop dropped the ball on the amp I was going to get......

Is there anything worth getting in the $50-$70 range?

Spam, I would spend $30 more and go with the Schitt Magni and be done with it. I just got one and it sounds great, looks great, made in the US if you care.


So my set up is now..

X-Fi Titanium HD RCA out for DAC
Schitt Magni
Beyer DT 990 mostly for gaming
Grado SR80i

Fiio E11 + LG G2 or Nexus 10 for "mobile" listening (laying in bed or on the couch, hehe), and playing my electronic drumset.

Im also building up my FLAC collection. Im really glad I got a little bit more into the headphone game, music has never sounded this good.

couple pics:

(http://i.imgur.com/GwGqICH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8bqiqa0.jpg)

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:07:22
Someone recommended the Aune T1 Headphone Tube DAC and Amp currently on massdrop....hmmm
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:25:49
Someone recommended the Aune T1 Headphone Tube DAC and Amp currently on massdrop....hmmm

287 pages of forum research for you ;}


http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:31:06
Someone recommended the Aune T1 Headphone Tube DAC and Amp currently on massdrop....hmmm

287 pages of forum research for you ;}


http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq

already was there earlier haha :P
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:47:02
Has anyone tried out the Dared MP-6 headphone amp?  Seems to be priced competitively with the Little Dot and Elekit offerings.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 25 January 2014, 17:37:41
Just joined the Aune T1 drop after some reading.  I might pick up a different tube as well to suit my single-player gaming needs, one guy in the Head-Fi thread posted his thoughts from a gaming standpoint (Philips SQ Miniwatt E88CC > Russian 6n23p rocket logo > stock).  I can add a Vali later if I find the T1 lacking in the amp section.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 25 January 2014, 17:47:29
Just joined the Aune T1 drop after some reading.  I might pick up a different tube as well to suit my single-player gaming needs, one guy in the Head-Fi thread posted his thoughts from a gaming standpoint (Philips SQ Miniwatt E88CC > Russian 6n23p rocket logo > stock).  I can add a Vali later if I find the T1 lacking in the amp section.

Thank you for reminding me of this setup :)  I am going to listen to some tunes through it now.  AuneT1+vali is creamy brilliant magic
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 25 January 2014, 22:26:05
Good! I read some people planning on it in the T1 thread (feeding Vali back to the T1 amp section thinking they'd get more power), but didn't read any impressions.  Was hoping that the T1's tube buffer wouldn't mess with the Vali. :)  I couldn't justify getting the Modi+Vali at this time, but the T1 drop made it easier to ditch this E10 and upgrade with the Vali later.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Sat, 25 January 2014, 22:31:01
Just joined the Aune T1 drop after some reading.  I might pick up a different tube as well to suit my single-player gaming needs, one guy in the Head-Fi thread posted his thoughts from a gaming standpoint (Philips SQ Miniwatt E88CC > Russian 6n23p rocket logo > stock).  I can add a Vali later if I find the T1 lacking in the amp section.

Jumped on the Aune T1 as well, looking forward to my first amp/dac experience. Hope it pairs alright with my hd598
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 25 January 2014, 23:33:27
Good! I read some people planning on it in the T1 thread (feeding Vali back to the T1 amp section thinking they'd get more power), but didn't read any impressions.  Was hoping that the T1's tube buffer wouldn't mess with the Vali. :)  I couldn't justify getting the Modi+Vali at this time, but the T1 drop made it easier to ditch this E10 and upgrade with the Vali later.

Feeding the vali back into the Aune would be hella stupid.  Just saying
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 25 January 2014, 23:45:26
Agreed. I don't think those people understood things very well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sun, 26 January 2014, 00:08:02
Ah goody :) it is a very nice combo to go aune into the vali though very musical in its own right
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 28 January 2014, 18:14:47
My listening is mostly via headphones, and I'm pretty happy with the Mad Dogs I got last week.  Now I'm shopping for better sound.  I'm partially deaf in one ear, so I'm hoping to find a solution with some sound balancing.  What should I be looking for, an amp/DAC combo with integrated equalizer?   
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: luminor on Wed, 29 January 2014, 10:27:56
will JDS Labs C5D sufficient for Sennheiser HD650, or just go with Bottlehead crack? i'm leaning to get the bottlehead
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:49:42
will JDS Labs C5D sufficient for Sennheiser HD650, or just go with Bottlehead crack? i'm leaning to get the bottlehead

a C5D is a mobile amp/dac.  It would be inappropriate to use it with the 650s, and from experience tube amplifiers tend to drive the 650s with better clarity.  The bottlehead is a nice option.  The Vali will also work very well.  I have found the O2 works as well with a 16V AC supply, but the Vali is a better presentation overall.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: meiosis on Fri, 31 January 2014, 01:40:49
Quick someone hit me with an answer:

Schiit stack (modi/magni) vs Aune T1?

I currently have the Schiit mostly due to Aune T1 gb running out last time.

Maybe I should join in on the massdrop currently if its actually an improvement?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Fri, 31 January 2014, 10:12:20
Quick someone hit me with an answer:

Schiit stack (modi/magni) vs Aune T1?

I currently have the Schiit mostly due to Aune T1 gb running out last time.

Maybe I should join in on the massdrop currently if its actually an improvement?

The T1 is an improvement over the Modi, but not the Magni.  You're basically side-grading with the T1.  If you want to upgrade get a better dac.

If you ever wanted to listen with someone else and have another set of headphones you can run the T1 + the Magni and have 2 amps on one DAC...

now I do have to say as dacs go the Aune is colored, so if you want something more for pure audio quality I would research a bit harder to go with something like the odac.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Tue, 11 February 2014, 21:04:49
Got my T1 today!  Came with an Electro-Harmonix 6922EH Russian tube, I was expecting a cheap Chinese one! :D

No burn-in yet.  Highs were a bit too strong and harsh from my Fiio, always felt that.  The T1 really reels that in, it's quite delightful. :)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Sniping on Tue, 11 February 2014, 22:47:47
Not entirely amp related but I recently got a new cable for the HE-400 setup so I can finally use the balanced output on my amp, sounds incredible!
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 11 February 2014, 23:29:52
Not entirely amp related but I recently got a new cable for the HE-400 setup so I can finally used the balanced output on my amp, sounds incredible!
(Attachment Link)

Only a little sad.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 13 February 2014, 21:38:31
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/12512908653_773a3d1095_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99760972@N03/12512908653/)


Just received and started using the Aune T1 from the massdrop buy (thanks Binge for the suggestion)

This thing is great, I'm loving it so far. Don't really know the much of the audio terms so I can't describe how different it is from the Schitt stack (which I had a ton of troubles with) but now I'm enjoying this a lot more.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Thu, 13 February 2014, 23:02:45
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/12512908653_773a3d1095_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99760972@N03/12512908653/)


Just received and started using the Aune T1 from the massdrop buy (thanks Binge for the suggestion)

This thing is great, I'm loving it so far. Don't really know the much of the audio terms so I can't describe how different it is from the Schitt stack (which I had a ton of troubles with) but now I'm enjoying this a lot more.

Great setup, received my T1 too and thinking about the Mad Dogs. A set of the tube covers snapped trying to get them in, no biggie ... Love the thing
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: filphil on Mon, 24 February 2014, 00:47:38
Really wish I picked up the black one from the last massdrop.  It sold out the second funds got transferred to my account.  I dont like committing to a drop unless I'm sure the funds were there.  =/
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Mon, 24 February 2014, 12:25:33
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/12512908653_773a3d1095_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99760972@N03/12512908653/)


Just received and started using the Aune T1 from the massdrop buy (thanks Binge for the suggestion)

This thing is great, I'm loving it so far. Don't really know the much of the audio terms so I can't describe how different it is from the Schitt stack (which I had a ton of troubles with) but now I'm enjoying this a lot more.

Great setup, received my T1 too and thinking about the Mad Dogs. A set of the tube covers snapped trying to get them in, no biggie ... Love the thing

I may or may not be selling my mad dogs
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 24 February 2014, 12:40:22
So I've been testing out my JH5s for a week with a Fiio e06 amp. But there's hissing which I think means it doesn't have enough power outage ifrom the e06? Anyways, can anyone recommend me a portable amp/dac for traveling? Right now I have a Zune and the Fiio e06.

I'd rather not get a e17 or something of that size since the Zune and e17 would be really thick and uncomfortable in my pocket.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 24 February 2014, 12:53:11
So I've been testing out my JH5s for a week with a Fiio e06 amp. But there's hissing which I think means it doesn't have enough power outage ifrom the e06? Anyways, can anyone recommend me a portable amp/dac for traveling? Right now I have a Zune and the Fiio e06.

I'd rather not get a e17 or something of that size since the Zune and e17 would be really thick and uncomfortable in my pocket.

hue.

How much money do you want to spend?  Because a lot of the more "portable" options aren't going to be cheap.  It might be more feasible to use your phone as transport and e17 for amp/dac assuming you don't have a super thick phone.

If that's plain undoable, the e12 is going to be best bet.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 24 February 2014, 12:58:51
More
So I've been testing out my JH5s for a week with a Fiio e06 amp. But there's hissing which I think means it doesn't have enough power outage ifrom the e06? Anyways, can anyone recommend me a portable amp/dac for traveling? Right now I have a Zune and the Fiio e06.

I'd rather not get a e17 or something of that size since the Zune and e17 would be really thick and uncomfortable in my pocket.

hue.

How much money do you want to spend?  Because a lot of the more "portable" options aren't going to be cheap.  It might be more feasible to use your phone as transport and e17 for amp/dac assuming you don't have a super thick phone.

If that's plain undoable, the e12 is going to be best bet.

Unfortunately my phone is about as thick as my Zune. I'd like to spend less than $100; $50 would be ideal. I was considering using a CMoy. I was also looking at the e11 and e12.

Anyways, regardless of the budget constraint, I'd just like to read up on amps just to know what's out there.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 24 February 2014, 13:23:22
More
So I've been testing out my JH5s for a week with a Fiio e06 amp. But there's hissing which I think means it doesn't have enough power outage ifrom the e06? Anyways, can anyone recommend me a portable amp/dac for traveling? Right now I have a Zune and the Fiio e06.

I'd rather not get a e17 or something of that size since the Zune and e17 would be really thick and uncomfortable in my pocket.

hue.

How much money do you want to spend?  Because a lot of the more "portable" options aren't going to be cheap.  It might be more feasible to use your phone as transport and e17 for amp/dac assuming you don't have a super thick phone.

If that's plain undoable, the e12 is going to be best bet.

Unfortunately my phone is about as thick as my Zune. I'd like to spend less than $100; $50 would be ideal. I was considering using a CMoy. I was also looking at the e11 and e12.

Anyways, regardless of the budget constraint, I'd just like to read up on amps just to know what's out there.

the cmoy is going to be a similar thickness to the e17.  I think you'd be happy with the e12, but other portable options include:

meridian explorer
headamp pico slim
CEntrance DACport
Apex HiFi Audio Glacier
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Tue, 25 February 2014, 11:55:41
I may or may not be selling my mad dogs

May or may not be interested.

Were they not what you were looking for?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Tue, 25 February 2014, 16:31:44
I may or may not be selling my mad dogs

May or may not be interested.

Were they not what you were looking for?

i mean, i don't hate them or anything. but im trying to look for something with a little more bass.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: davkol on Tue, 25 February 2014, 16:33:56
Dem BEETZ!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Tue, 25 February 2014, 16:40:05
no...
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Tue, 25 February 2014, 19:18:36
no...

have you tried EQing the bass in?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: demik on Tue, 25 February 2014, 19:24:45
negative
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:29:19
More
So I've been testing out my JH5s for a week with a Fiio e06 amp. But there's hissing which I think means it doesn't have enough power outage ifrom the e06? Anyways, can anyone recommend me a portable amp/dac for traveling? Right now I have a Zune and the Fiio e06.

I'd rather not get a e17 or something of that size since the Zune and e17 would be really thick and uncomfortable in my pocket.

hue.

How much money do you want to spend?  Because a lot of the more "portable" options aren't going to be cheap.  It might be more feasible to use your phone as transport and e17 for amp/dac assuming you don't have a super thick phone.

If that's plain undoable, the e12 is going to be best bet.

Unfortunately my phone is about as thick as my Zune. I'd like to spend less than $100; $50 would be ideal. I was considering using a CMoy. I was also looking at the e11 and e12.

Anyways, regardless of the budget constraint, I'd just like to read up on amps just to know what's out there.


I have an E11 and its cheap/great. I use it every single day and before bed. When I was looking for a portable amp I read alot of reviews and forum posts, and the E11 seemed like a much better value vs the E12. Its also smaller for, you know, portability. My Schitt Magni desktop amp is less expensive than the E12 so thats something to consider.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:36:05
I've had multiple opportunities to check out the E11 Zoolzoo, but I'm worried about the build quality. It seems like the cases aren't the best and break often. But I really think for the cost of the amps, the sound is great
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Fri, 28 February 2014, 05:11:57
I've had multiple opportunities to check out the E11 Zoolzoo, but I'm worried about the build quality. It seems like the cases aren't the best and break often. But I really think for the cost of the amps, the sound is great


Ah sorry I missed that part. I think the E12 is a metal case then right? That might be better for you for sure if you need alot more durability. I didnt consider that since my E11 doesnt really leave my house all that much.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Mon, 10 March 2014, 04:57:08
My first amp purchase ever. A Littledot MKIII  ;D

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7405/13055968815_aae0cc9943_b.jpg)

Makes for a great pairing for my q701s, especially with the highs. Less noticeable with the DT880s, as it was a pretty genre-friendly headphone in the first place, but an improvement nonetheless.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 10 March 2014, 15:03:26
That's a good looking setup.  I like the braiding on those cables there, too.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Wed, 12 March 2014, 01:14:10
thanks. was a good few hours of elbow grease making those, but the results were worth it imo. I'm still burning the tubes in, but I like what I hear so far.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 18 March 2014, 11:42:36
That's a good looking setup.  I like the braiding on those cables there, too.

Agreed. That's a really nice looking setup Larken. How did you make that headphone stand (Assuming you made it)?

I've had multiple opportunities to check out the E11 Zoolzoo, but I'm worried about the build quality. It seems like the cases aren't the best and break often. But I really think for the cost of the amps, the sound is great


Ah sorry I missed that part. I think the E12 is a metal case then right? That might be better for you for sure if you need alot more durability. I didnt consider that since my E11 doesnt really leave my house all that much.

The E11 my friend was using only at work was metal but the cover for the battery came off. When I was traveling around, I tried two or three E11s which also had that issue where the cover was coming off. Because of what I've seen, I'm not into the E11 for traveling. I think the E12 is a metal case but I didn't get to try one...but I think you might be right.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 18 March 2014, 13:06:49
no...

have you tried EQing the bass in?
I tried Beats once, and to me that seems like saying "Okay, so I know this poop smells bad, but put it in a smellier pile of poop and it's not that bad".
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Tue, 18 March 2014, 14:53:43
That's a good looking setup.  I like the braiding on those cables there, too.

Agreed. That's a really nice looking setup Larken. How did you make that headphone stand (Assuming you made it)?


As I see it it is a standard microphone stand:

(http://images.guitarcenter.com/products/optionLarge/KM/DV016_Jpg_Large_583910.001_black.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Tue, 18 March 2014, 18:18:35
Look what Im going to be building this weekend!

(http://www.garage1217.com/G1217PRODUCTS/photoshoot%201-2-14/Ember/Project%20Ember%20Tube%20Headphone%20Amplifier%205.JPG)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Tue, 18 March 2014, 22:13:44
That's a good looking setup.  I like the braiding on those cables there, too.

Agreed. That's a really nice looking setup Larken. How did you make that headphone stand (Assuming you made it)?


As I see it it is a standard microphone stand:


blackbox's got that correct. It's just one of those boom/drum mic stands I'm hanging my headphones off. bought it for use for dictation, but never quite worked out, so works pretty good for hanging all my audio stuff on. :) It's usually on the floor though.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 19 March 2014, 08:22:32
blackbox's got that correct. It's just one of those boom/drum mic stands I'm hanging my headphones off. bought it for use for dictation, but never quite worked out, so works pretty good for hanging all my audio stuff on. :) It's usually on the floor though.

Aww, I was hoping it was some really cool custom metal stand. I'm still looking for a headphone stand for my cans.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Wed, 19 March 2014, 09:34:48

Aww, I was hoping it was some really cool custom metal stand. I'm still looking for a headphone stand for my cans.


I'm not a huge fan of paying high prices for something that has the basic functionality of a banana hanger (google that. You'd see that some headphone stands are just prettied up versions). Otherwise, its mainly just a question of aesthetics.

If there's a bestbuy near you, you could probably check and pick up a few of these for real cheap.  No idea bout the quality, but at 3 bucks... *shrug*
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Rocketfish%26%23153%3B+-+Rocketfish%26%23153%3B+Universal+Headset+Stand/3526165.p?id=1218408987392&skuId=3526165&st=Video_Game_Sale_20120812&cp=4&lp=2&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=website
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 19 March 2014, 09:37:02
I've just been using huge binder clips. Clipped em to the side of my desk and then hang the headphones on the legs. Was hoping to get a nice metal one for cheap or a wood one. But it's not an urgent need. That rocketfish stand is interesting though.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Wed, 19 March 2014, 10:01:22
I've just been using huge binder clips. Clipped em to the side of my desk and then hang the headphones on the legs. Was hoping to get a nice metal one for cheap or a wood one. But it's not an urgent need. That rocketfish stand is interesting though.

Another alternative is this:

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/hh-10 (http://en-us.sennheiser.com/hh-10)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Doyniish on Thu, 20 March 2014, 00:57:51
Anybody here have/using a Topping TP30 (http://www.amazon.com/Topping-TP30-Digital-Amplifier-USB-DAC/dp/B005D7SKWK/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1395208405&sr=1-21&keywords=DAC)? I'm thinking about picking one up soon.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Thu, 20 March 2014, 18:22:36
Anybody here have/using a Topping TP30 (http://www.amazon.com/Topping-TP30-Digital-Amplifier-USB-DAC/dp/B005D7SKWK/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1395208405&sr=1-21&keywords=DAC)? I'm thinking about picking one up soon.


You may spend over double that but the Aune T1 is a much better buy.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JPG on Fri, 21 March 2014, 08:14:28
Just commited for the Aune T1 on massdrop. Will be my first dac/amp. Can't wait to see the difference with my DT-880.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Fri, 21 March 2014, 10:55:39
Just commited for the Aune T1 on massdrop. Will be my first dac/amp. Can't wait to see the difference with my DT-880.

Think you'll enjoy.

I got the Aune T1 as my first dac/amp not too long ago, and it inspired me to get something for the office too (went with Vali to mix things up)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Doyniish on Fri, 21 March 2014, 11:55:39
Just commited for the Aune T1 on massdrop. Will be my first dac/amp. Can't wait to see the difference with my DT-880.

Alrighty thanks for the response. Maybe i'll just wait and save up more fore the T1.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Sat, 22 March 2014, 06:45:40
I am currently building my project ember kit, its coming out great so far. The one thing I am wondering about is what type of wire lead i should use to ground the volume potentiometer. The kit doesnt include anything and it doesnt mention what to use in the instructions. I have some solid hook up wire laying around, and I also have some kanthal resistance wire. Would those work? If not what should I buy? I tried asking on head-fi but it seems like those dudes are better at buying expensive **** than answering simple questions. Here's a pic:




figured it out...just need to use a snipped piece of wire from an installed component. I should have known that.

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Sun, 23 March 2014, 10:02:48
Beyerdynamic DT770 with abrahamsen a-dac 2 and schiit asgaard 2 headphone amplifier(a picture from earlier this year:
(https://gm1.ggpht.com/J87ufEVUl2GbAvmaHXluabNyLFRn2WhnG5ZvWKeANHOy5BKpgPCGZeMZ5dXqkAqwZ8cAqJF-iZI9FCFTTCUVC0BFv4mmMgb9Z-T0W3vZeoZs9dEMwbsmN4gluhnRql4u4EbuxaXLKXZDJ3OYEcFxIJjGuouDksNmz2tXCblJLHoueRZbppb5qc6liskoBtWVJ9PIz7hjVIhyUWpcUYibIkY6TNjE0WA9gXniJ8FSYMmQaBJPLh3SdfL9gI5icAb9aF4ZCWztOIznbAmJlKak-qp9ajC2DkT3eAAzNDCZoz5Q7sd7U3On2hs7QlrmWH4zFmZgTWDnSWaNeJAaTB-FmP_Dj0qlozi6d2Z6COLLTpsfPwkVJUaiC_ms9zh8wqAPTUiKAR4GUQQXKhnZ62GqpyeHw8F4DcHfRaHYxKW1wWoywUXUPKjV-ZvvhxJYeN0ZdXXkblafFWmB2-DvRMojFxdPTwcigrR_U6Bb7oqmpigGfD9QAyQ7VuQ_99WoqtP8ba4D7JYKeK9QFFFIxHjhK4kiFk0e9IQYokJABw=w1248-h485-l75)

I might upgrade to an qnktc ab1.2 dac.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Sun, 23 March 2014, 21:52:37
anyone here using hd650s? would love to hear what amp/dac you guys went with
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sun, 23 March 2014, 23:57:32
anyone here using hd650s? would love to hear what amp/dac you guys went with

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52240.0#post_pt7
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 23 March 2014, 23:59:19
anyone here using hd650s? would love to hear what amp/dac you guys went with

Binge tested them in his audio hell thread and everything I see says they pair well with OTL tube amps or even something like the vali from Schiit.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Mon, 24 March 2014, 01:52:33
Beyerdynamic DT770 with abrahamsen a-dac 2 and schiit asgaard 2 headphone amplifier(a picture from earlier this year).
I might upgrade to an qnktc ab1.2 dac.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Mon, 24 March 2014, 15:40:33
anyone here using hd650s? would love to hear what amp/dac you guys went with

Binge tested them in his audio hell thread and everything I see says they pair well with OTL tube amps or even something like the vali from Schiit.
anyone here using hd650s? would love to hear what amp/dac you guys went with

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52240.0#post_pt7

ah thanks fellas. Really great reviews Binge. I was feeding my HD650 to the YuLong DA8 not too long ago
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 24 March 2014, 15:41:56
I was feeding my HD650 to the YuLong DA8 not too long ago

Sounds like some really weird Skyrim quest. :))
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 24 March 2014, 19:51:57
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 24 March 2014, 19:53:24
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)


How hard was it to build?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 24 March 2014, 20:12:29
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)


How hard was it to build?

If you have built a keyboard before, you can do it. There are some soldering sections where you have to be a little precise but that's it. The manual is pretty good. You just take your time, be careful, and have fun.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Tue, 25 March 2014, 00:13:55
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)


whoa, thing is beautiful. what are you pairing these babies up with?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Tue, 25 March 2014, 05:58:50
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)


whoa, thing is beautiful. what are you pairing these babies up with?

I have Grado/Alessandro MS2i's and Beyer DT 990 Pro's. The Grado's really sing on it. What im most pleasantly surprised by is how the tube has rounded out my DT 990's.....really enjoying these phones even more.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: kaz on Thu, 27 March 2014, 08:09:01
Anybody here have/using a Topping TP30 (http://www.amazon.com/Topping-TP30-Digital-Amplifier-USB-DAC/dp/B005D7SKWK/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1395208405&sr=1-21&keywords=DAC)? I'm thinking about picking one up soon.


I've had a SMSL SAD-25 for a while now and I love it. I believe they're exactly the same aside from a different OP amp (which is socketed and replaceable). PM me if you want more of a run down.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: nzhao20 on Sat, 29 March 2014, 09:20:28
Any comments on SSMH?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Doyniish on Sat, 29 March 2014, 12:58:14
Anybody here have/using a Topping TP30 (http://www.amazon.com/Topping-TP30-Digital-Amplifier-USB-DAC/dp/B005D7SKWK/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1395208405&sr=1-21&keywords=DAC)? I'm thinking about picking one up soon.


I've had a SMSL SAD-25 for a while now and I love it. I believe they're exactly the same aside from a different OP amp (which is socketed and replaceable). PM me if you want more of a run down.

Awesome, thank you for your input!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Sat, 29 March 2014, 13:13:58
Anybody here have/using a Topping TP30 (http://www.amazon.com/Topping-TP30-Digital-Amplifier-USB-DAC/dp/B005D7SKWK/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1395208405&sr=1-21&keywords=DAC)? I'm thinking about picking one up soon.


I've had a SMSL SAD-25 for a while now and I love it. I believe they're exactly the same aside from a different OP amp (which is socketed and replaceable). PM me if you want more of a run down.

how is SMSL? They're really cheap but I don't know much about its quality
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Fri, 25 April 2014, 18:33:17
anyone here using a Denon D5000/D7000? Currently looking for a D7000, but they are nearly impossible to find  :'(
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Fri, 25 April 2014, 18:47:38
anyone here using a Denon D5000/D7000? Currently looking for a D7000, but they are nearly impossible to find  :'(

There's one on eBay now.

Otherwise perhaps the Fostex TH900s are a good alternative
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Fri, 25 April 2014, 18:50:44
anyone here using a Denon D5000/D7000? Currently looking for a D7000, but they are nearly impossible to find  :'(

There's one on eBay now.

Otherwise perhaps the Fostex TH900s are a good alternative

yeah I saw that one. I'd much prefer a bone-stock one. TH900 is better, but way too expensive for me lol
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Fri, 25 April 2014, 18:57:22
anyone here using a Denon D5000/D7000? Currently looking for a D7000, but they are nearly impossible to find  :'(

There's one on eBay now.

Otherwise perhaps the Fostex TH900s are a good alternative

yeah I saw that one. I'd much prefer a bone-stock one. TH900 is better, but way too expensive for me lol

Ahh gotcha.

Perhaps the TH600s (I'm pretty happy with my pair)? They're on-sale over at Massdrop now... from Noblehifi regarding TH600 vs D7000
Quote
Their sonic characteristics are about 95-98% the same
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Fri, 25 April 2014, 20:55:56
anyone here using a Denon D5000/D7000? Currently looking for a D7000, but they are nearly impossible to find  :'(

There's one on eBay now.

Otherwise perhaps the Fostex TH900s are a good alternative

yeah I saw that one. I'd much prefer a bone-stock one. TH900 is better, but way too expensive for me lol

Ahh gotcha.

Perhaps the TH600s (I'm pretty happy with my pair)? They're on-sale over at Massdrop now... from Noblehifi regarding TH600 vs D7000
Quote
Their sonic characteristics are about 95-98% the same

oh you have a TH600?! How do you like them in terms of comfort & sound?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: sockit2me on Sun, 27 April 2014, 02:47:40
Anyone using O2?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Mon, 28 April 2014, 02:16:23
added a pupdac to my audio chain.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5182/14023149106_d156e44fac_b.jpg)

loads of smd to put together, definitely not meant for a beginner. Wasn't sure if I could get it working, so didn't order the case with it. DIYed a stand using some scrap acrylic + bolts and nuts.

Sounds noticeably better than a Asus Essence STX modded with LME49720 OPamps, though not by a large margin. One annoying quirk is how the dac doesn't respond at all to windows volume control; not a big deal for those linking to an amp, since they'll be controlling the volume using the amp instead.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 28 April 2014, 04:55:56
added a pupdac to my audio chain.

Show Image
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5182/14023149106_d156e44fac_b.jpg)


loads of smd to put together, definitely not meant for a beginner. Wasn't sure if I could get it working, so didn't order the case with it. DIYed a stand using some scrap acrylic + bolts and nuts.

Sounds noticeably better than a Asus Essence STX modded with LME49720 OPamps, though not by a large margin. One annoying quirk is how the dac doesn't respond at all to windows volume control; not a big deal for those linking to an amp, since they'll be controlling the volume using the amp instead.

Cute little thing. Custom mount? I see on the beezar site there is a blue enclosure.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Harrowed on Mon, 28 April 2014, 05:03:27
As DAC I use my DSP's DAC-chip and just bypass room correction settings when using headphones. As headphone amp I have cheap Chinese hybrid amp, V.A.L. E10 (little modded). My Headphones are Sennheiser HD 650 with chord made by some ebay seller.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Mon, 28 April 2014, 05:36:24
added a pupdac to my audio chain.

Show Image
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5182/14023149106_d156e44fac_b.jpg)


loads of smd to put together, definitely not meant for a beginner. Wasn't sure if I could get it working, so didn't order the case with it. DIYed a stand using some scrap acrylic + bolts and nuts.

Sounds noticeably better than a Asus Essence STX modded with LME49720 OPamps, though not by a large margin. One annoying quirk is how the dac doesn't respond at all to windows volume control; not a big deal for those linking to an amp, since they'll be controlling the volume using the amp instead.

Cute little thing. Custom mount? I see on the beezar site there is a blue enclosure.

wasn't a fan of the blue (aside from the cost). so yea, DIYed one with scrap parts I had. Was planning to have another top layer of acrylic above, but quickly realised that the bolts I had were too short, so left it as shown in the pic. Probably not gonna change up the case as its gonna stay on my desk and doesn't bother me.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Mon, 28 April 2014, 06:00:11
As DAC I use my DSP's DAC-chip and just bypass room correction settings when using headphones. As headphone amp I have cheap Chinese hybrid amp, V.A.L. E10 (little modded). My Headphones are Sennheiser HD 650 with chord made by some ebay seller.

That V.a.l E10 looked nice!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Wed, 30 April 2014, 17:23:56
added a pupdac to my audio chain.

Show Image
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5182/14023149106_d156e44fac_b.jpg)


loads of smd to put together, definitely not meant for a beginner. Wasn't sure if I could get it working, so didn't order the case with it. DIYed a stand using some scrap acrylic + bolts and nuts.

Sounds noticeably better than a Asus Essence STX modded with LME49720 OPamps, though not by a large margin. One annoying quirk is how the dac doesn't respond at all to windows volume control; not a big deal for those linking to an amp, since they'll be controlling the volume using the amp instead.

Cute little thing. Custom mount? I see on the beezar site there is a blue enclosure.

wasn't a fan of the blue (aside from the cost). so yea, DIYed one with scrap parts I had. Was planning to have another top layer of acrylic above, but quickly realised that the bolts I had were too short, so left it as shown in the pic. Probably not gonna change up the case as its gonna stay on my desk and doesn't bother me.

it looks cooler how you have it anyway
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Fri, 02 May 2014, 10:36:45
i am really really loving the JDS LAbs CMOYBB v.2.03R with my V-Moda Crossfade M-100 headphones.  I have been listening to some Aphex Twin FLACs this morning and..... holy ****. whoa. 

(http://www.jdslabs.com/images/accessories/NiMH/4.jpg)

yea thats right. my amp is built into an Altoids box.  and i could not be happier.  ambient electronic with a nice little bass boost really sounds... like i am not at work anymore.

i am psyched.  music is good stuff.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Fri, 02 May 2014, 10:56:10
Took the plunge and bought a Little Dot MkIII from a Head-fi forum member.  This will be my first tube amp, I'm looking forward to trying it out - once it arrives...   ;D
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: ajunakey on Fri, 02 May 2014, 12:44:24
Took the plunge and bought a Little Dot MkIII from a Head-fi forum member.  This will be my first tube amp, I'm looking forward to trying it out - once it arrives...   ;D

Nice. What are you pairing that baby up with?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Fri, 02 May 2014, 12:55:05
Took the plunge and bought a Little Dot MkIII from a Head-fi forum member.  This will be my first tube amp, I'm looking forward to trying it out - once it arrives...   ;D

Nice. What are you pairing that baby up with?

I'm planning to use this amp as a desktop setup, with my Android phone as input (maybe with a Fiio E17 as DAC).  Headphones will be the Mad Dogs, Sennheiser 598's if I can steal them back from my spouse.  I have a pair of ATH-M50's I use at work, I may try these as well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 02 May 2014, 12:56:53
i am really really loving the JDS LAbs CMOYBB v.2.03R with my V-Moda Crossfade M-100 headphones.  I have been listening to some Aphex Twin FLACs this morning and..... holy ****. whoa. 

Show Image
(http://www.jdslabs.com/images/accessories/NiMH/4.jpg)


yea thats right. my amp is built into an Altoids box.  and i could not be happier.  ambient electronic with a nice little bass boost really sounds... like i am not at work anymore.

i am psyched.  music is good stuff.

That CMoy is what got me started down this whole audiophile road, along with the Grado SR80i cans. I loved that amp and I think I'm going to get that again.

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Fri, 02 May 2014, 13:06:29
i am really really loving the JDS LAbs CMOYBB v.2.03R with my V-Moda Crossfade M-100 headphones.  I have been listening to some Aphex Twin FLACs this morning and..... holy ****. whoa. 

Show Image
(http://www.jdslabs.com/images/accessories/NiMH/4.jpg)


yea thats right. my amp is built into an Altoids box.  and i could not be happier.  ambient electronic with a nice little bass boost really sounds... like i am not at work anymore.

i am psyched.  music is good stuff.

That CMoy is what got me started down this whole audiophile road, along with the Grado SR80i cans. I loved that amp and I think I'm going to get that again.

ok prepare to be asked questions between diablo rift runs about it. 
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 02 May 2014, 13:24:40
Why not over voice chat *during* the rift run? :P
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sun, 04 May 2014, 00:25:44
Just some new fun stuff.  It has a headphone amp.

(http://i.imgur.com/VBauKys.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 04 May 2014, 00:42:58
Just some new fun stuff.  It has a headphone amp.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VBauKys.jpg)


Okay now you're just showing off your audio gear.  :P

Also!  Can I get bonus points for identifying that as a Harman Kardon amp based purely on the red power switch?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sun, 04 May 2014, 01:02:02
Just some new fun stuff.  It has a headphone amp.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VBauKys.jpg)


Okay now you're just showing off your audio gear.  :P

Also!  Can I get bonus points for identifying that as a Harman Kardon amp based purely on the red power switch?

+1
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: physicsmajor on Fri, 16 May 2014, 18:42:42
Ever so slightly above the OP's original price range, the Bottlehead S.E.X. probably cannot be touched for $539. If you can order with a buddy, it's below $500.

It's a fantastic DIY project, and upgradeable with botique components as well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Fri, 16 May 2014, 19:05:40
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)


How hard was it to build?

If you have built a keyboard before, you can do it. There are some soldering sections where you have to be a little precise but that's it. The manual is pretty good. You just take your time, be careful, and have fun.

Hey zoolzoo, where did you buy the ember kit from?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: zoolzoo on Sat, 17 May 2014, 15:06:04
I built this baby over the weekend, sounding amazing. I already have some tubes en route.  ^-^


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMy8ODc.jpg)


How hard was it to build?

If you have built a keyboard before, you can do it. There are some soldering sections where you have to be a little precise but that's it. The manual is pretty good. You just take your time, be careful, and have fun.

Hey zoolzoo, where did you buy the ember kit from?

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: davkol on Wed, 11 June 2014, 09:06:02
Audinst HUD-mx1. K24 is currently selling them for €120 shipped in Poland/Czechia/???—it's apparently the cheapest easily available source for 600Ω headphones around here.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: sacratoy on Thu, 12 June 2014, 14:54:37
(http://i.imgur.com/iKbtFFXl.jpg)

Got myself a Magni/Modi Schiit stack.

First Amp and DAC I've used/purchased. Really enjoying the improvement in quality of sound.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Thu, 12 June 2014, 16:35:01
Congrats! I see you also got pyst. I really like schiit. Ive got sys, pyst and asgard 2.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 June 2014, 16:49:18
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/iKbtFFXl.jpg)


Got myself a Magni/Modi Schiit stack.

First Amp and DAC I've used/purchased. Really enjoying the improvement in quality of sound.

That's a great steaming stack of Schiit. I'm jelly, but I don't really have the money or speakers to go with it... Even though I'd love them for my headphones.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Thu, 12 June 2014, 23:32:06
Alright guys. Sorry but I'm really not up to reading through this thread tonight. Maybe I will tomorrow morning if nothing interesting is happening at work. Anyways, maybe some of you could help me get a DAC/Amp.

First off, I don't want to dive into some $1000+ system or anything like that. I'm not here to argue audiophile level stuff and whether or not it is worth it or not. I am just looking for a bang for the buck. I'm pretty sure anything is better than the random sound card I have sitting in my machine right now.

I listen to a bit of music but a lot of it falls under the EDM genre. Most if it is streamed from pandora,youtube,etc. I do have a few downloaded files but they are just random mp3's and not fancy high quality flac or anything.

Sooo.... You may be wondering why I want to invest in a new system at all. My old headphones broke and I got the Razer Carcharias, but apparently they changed it to a v2 that supports the xbox. Holy **** was that a mistake, as soon as I plugged it in I got a horrible buzzing sound that would stay as long as it was plugged in, apparently its a common issue with its amp. Anyways, I couldn't stand it and instantly gave them back. Right now I am sitting on a pair of Sony MDR-V600 which are just headphones and no mic or anything. I can tell they are higher quality than the Razer trash, but not sure how they stack up to everything else. Anyways, I'm happy enough with the headphones - they are comfortable and seem to sound ok.

My issue is that when I crank up my system volume past ~75% I start to get this white noise sound that is slightly annoying. It's not a big deal because I can lower the volume until the white noise is no longer perceivable, but it's still there and sometimes I have to raise it. I will assume that getting an external DAC (and amp?) would help alleviate this interference. Like I said I don't want anything too fancy, just something that will hopefully take care of that issue. I also miss having a physical wheel for my volume which will be nice. If you guys really think I need a new pair of cans too I guess I would be open to it. Hopefully some of you more knowledgeable people can give some advice.

tl;dr - white noise at high volume with built in audio. Looking for decent DAC to help alleviate the issue.

Edit: Not sure how picky I will be with the sound type but I think I want to play it safe and stay with a fairly flat profile - so a solid state, and stay away from tube's for now. Who knows, maybe I will look at them later. They are pretty :P

I'm not opposed to DIY stuff and some soldering (No SMD experience though). The O2 stuff seems interesting but to be honest their website reminds me of Beats and seems like they are trying to sell it off of brand name (NWAVGUY). However, I'v heard they take a pretty objective approach so maybe I am wrong about that.

It seems like the general consensus is that the basic schiit stack (magni/modi) is the goto setup. The dac and amp are separate which should make it easier to upgrade in the future if I want to. I'v heard someone say that SPDIF might be better than USB. If I get the Modi should I get it in USB or Optical style? My motherboard does have an optical port. If it matters I am running Linux primary but it seems like most of the chips are supported including the ones on schiit's page.

Thanks for the help and sorry for the long post...
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Fri, 13 June 2014, 00:43:44
Alright guys. Sorry but I'm really not up to reading through this thread tonight. Maybe I will tomorrow morning if nothing interesting is happening at work. Anyways, maybe some of you could help me get a DAC/Amp.

First off, I don't want to dive into some $1000+ system or anything like that. I'm not here to argue audiophile level stuff and whether or not it is worth it or not. I am just looking for a bang for the buck. I'm pretty sure anything is better than the random sound card I have sitting in my machine right now.

I listen to a bit of music but a lot of it falls under the EDM genre. Most if it is streamed from pandora,youtube,etc. I do have a few downloaded files but they are just random mp3's and not fancy high quality flac or anything.

Sooo.... You may be wondering why I want to invest in a new system at all. My old headphones broke and I got the Razer Carcharias, but apparently they changed it to a v2 that supports the xbox. Holy **** was that a mistake, as soon as I plugged it in I got a horrible buzzing sound that would stay as long as it was plugged in, apparently its a common issue with its amp. Anyways, I couldn't stand it and instantly gave them back. Right now I am sitting on a pair of Sony MDR-V600 which are just headphones and no mic or anything. I can tell they are higher quality than the Razer trash, but not sure how they stack up to everything else. Anyways, I'm happy enough with the headphones - they are comfortable and seem to sound ok.

My issue is that when I crank up my system volume past ~75% I start to get this white noise sound that is slightly annoying. It's not a big deal because I can lower the volume until the white noise is no longer perceivable, but it's still there and sometimes I have to raise it. I will assume that getting an external DAC (and amp?) would help alleviate this interference. Like I said I don't want anything too fancy, just something that will hopefully take care of that issue. If you guys really think I need a new pair of cans too I guess I would be open to it also. Hopefully some of you more knowledgeable people can give some advice.

tl;dr - white noise at high volume with built in audio. Looking for decent DAC to help alleviate the issue.

The magni and modi combo is great bang for the buck system. Sacratoy has a picture of it few posts earlier. You can buy it here:

http://schiit.com/products/magni (http://schiit.com/products/magni)

http://schiit.com/products/modi (http://schiit.com/products/modi)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Fri, 13 June 2014, 01:13:00
The magni and modi combo is great bang for the buck system. Sacratoy has a picture of it few posts earlier. You can buy it here:

http://schiit.com/products/magni (http://schiit.com/products/magni)

http://schiit.com/products/modi (http://schiit.com/products/modi)

Yeah I just skimmed through the whole thread. Seems like the Magni/Modi isn't a bad way to go. There are a few people here who have picked them up and liked it. As I said about anything should be better than the built in audio (I would hope).

Edited my other post...
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Kayla on Fri, 13 June 2014, 01:24:27
Its happening again

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aune-t1-mk2
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Sat, 14 June 2014, 13:58:29
Alright I'v done a bit of reading while trying to avoid the snake oil pitfall of "monster" cables.

I think I will get the Schiit stack, but I am not sure if I should get the USB or Optical version of the Modi. They are both digital so as long as there is no crazy corruption (which there shouldn't be) the dac should receive the same stream of bits leading to the same output. For that reason it seems like I should just go with whatever one is more convenient. However, I have a couple questions. Optical would electrically separate my computer and the dac which could help with ground noise. However, is that a big enough deal for me to worry about it? It seems like the onboard audio is fairly noisy at high volumes... Also, does the optical transmitter matter, and is it effected by the card/board it is on? I know that USB is strait pass through so the computer doesn't do any fancy processing.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Sat, 14 June 2014, 18:14:56
if you get a modi, or most other dacs you won't have an issue with the noise floor.

Personal recommendation for a dac is to get an ODAC..  It's incredible.  Other amps are neat and everything, but the ODAC is probably the best D to A under $400.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 17 June 2014, 17:54:52
So, looking for some advice since I've been out of the audio game for ~5 years. I just picked up the AKG Q701's from the Massdrop that's currently going on (couldn't entirely argue with the price, and my HD 595's are dying  :( ) What kind of amp should I look for. I would like some help finding a portable amp, as I'll be using it on both my desktop, laptop, and phone. I've had a Fiio for years, but I'm feeling like it's time to rotate that out as well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 17 June 2014, 18:00:02
So, looking for some advice since I've been out of the audio game for ~5 years. I just picked up the AKG Q701's from the Massdrop that's currently going on (couldn't entirely argue with the price, and my HD 595's are dying  :( ) What kind of amp should I look for. I would like some help finding a portable amp, as I'll be using it on both my desktop, laptop, and phone. I've had a Fiio for years, but I'm feeling like it's time to rotate that out as well.

Any soundcard should work for the desktop and laptop, and I would just get earbuds for the phone.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Tue, 17 June 2014, 21:50:50
I have a q701 and aune T1 coming in the mail. So much excite! Wallet hurts though.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: acidtrip69 on Tue, 17 June 2014, 23:49:59
Massdrop has a sell on some AKG Q701 i'm on the fence about buy a pair. I also if i do buy them is there a way to  change or fix that head band because i don't like them bumps in the head band. If massdrop was selling the AKG K702 i wouldn't ask. I also have been looking at the AKG K612 pros for some time but then massdrop put the Q701 on sell for a really good price. Can anyone tell me some pros and cons between the two ? plz 
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Larken on Wed, 18 June 2014, 01:07:43
So, looking for some advice since I've been out of the audio game for ~5 years. I just picked up the AKG Q701's from the Massdrop that's currently going on (couldn't entirely argue with the price, and my HD 595's are dying  :( ) What kind of amp should I look for. I would like some help finding a portable amp, as I'll be using it on both my desktop, laptop, and phone. I've had a Fiio for years, but I'm feeling like it's time to rotate that out as well.

I'd tried a c5 (not the dac version as I use it with a mp3 player) from jdslabs with the q701 and was rather impressed with the sound quality. It compares well with my desktop setup (a pupdac w/ a LD mk III), and would probably fit your requirements of portability/desktop use. The price might be a little hard to justify however, given the relative price of your headphones, but you're most likely stuck with the fiio stuff below that budget (which I have tried rather briefly and wasn't too impressed with). The dac version would work with a phone too (though I have no idea how it sounds compared to just the amp version, so that's a murky area as to whether its worth the additional price, though I would imagine so).



Massdrop has a sell on some AKG Q701 i'm on the fence about buy a pair. I also if i do buy them is there a way to  change or fix that head band because i don't like them bumps in the head band. If massdrop was selling the AKG K702 i wouldn't ask. I also have been looking at the AKG K612 pros for some time but then massdrop put the Q701 on sell for a really good price. Can anyone tell me some pros and cons between the two ? plz 

No experience with the k612s, but I took an exacto knife to my q701s after 3 days of ownership. Cut out the bumps and it feels much more comfortable (though ugly). There are threads floating around with instructions on how to replace the headband, but there's work involved (either a spare 612 headband is required; could approach AKG for spare parts purchase), or contact someone with leatherworking supplies (there's probably one or two on geekhack) to cut out a new leatherhead band - though, removing the rivets on the stock headband is irreversible, so only pursue this route if you're confident of doing it. Also you'll need to figure out a way to hold the new headband in place. See this thread for further ideas.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/655345/akg-q701-headband-replacement




Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Wed, 18 June 2014, 02:25:26
Massdrop has a sell on some AKG Q701 i'm on the fence about buy a pair. I also if i do buy them is there a way to  change or fix that head band because i don't like them bumps in the head band. If massdrop was selling the AKG K702 i wouldn't ask. I also have been looking at the AKG K612 pros for some time but then massdrop put the Q701 on sell for a really good price. Can anyone tell me some pros and cons between the two ? plz 

Just wear a beanie underneath.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Wed, 18 June 2014, 02:27:52
The above solution would only work in winter
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Wed, 18 June 2014, 07:30:17
The Aune T1 came in the mail today. Listening to it right now and all I can say is WOW.

Compared to my previous setup, Asus DS soundcard with aftermarket opamp > O2 amp, the warmth and fullness of the sound is amazing. And this is on the standard 6922 tube it comes with. I have an Amperex 6dj8 shipping from the US, can't wait to see what that's like. So many possibilities with tube rolling. Let the journey begin.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: compgeke on Wed, 18 June 2014, 10:48:49
I'm a bit...old. No DAC, just two old receivers as amps since I don't need to take them anywhere.

Desk: Kenwood KR-4070
Beside the bed: Proton AV300
Headphones: Trashed and professionally repaired Plantronics headset. Might not be that nice but it sounds better than most sub $30 stuff surprisingly.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Wed, 18 June 2014, 11:07:10
Got in on the Q701 drop, even with shipping and VAT it'll still be like 50-60% cheaper than buying them here in Norway. Now I just need to find a decent amp for them that won't break my wallet. I was thinking FiiO since I've heard good things about those and they sell them in a store that's like 5 mins from here.

Plan is to get an O2, although I want to build one myself after I've got an amp that I can use so that I won't be amp-less if I **** it up. I'm thinking FiiO because even after being replaced I could still use it as a portable amp instead of leaving it to gather dust.

Also considering the Bravo that's on massdrop atm since it's quite cheap, but I'm concerned about powering it as I assume it uses a US plug, not sure how easy it would be to get it working here.

So, any suggestions? I'd prefer something I don't have to import as that'll have 25% VAT + handling fees slapped on it, but FiiO is pretty much the only decent brand you can get in stores here. Should I just go with that(if so, which models should I be looking at), or are there some that are worth importing?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Acknown3 on Wed, 18 June 2014, 16:00:11
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Wed, 18 June 2014, 17:14:13
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Thu, 19 June 2014, 22:53:40
Got my Modi/Magni today and am using them with a pair of Sony MDR-V600 from around the house. I know it's not the best setup ever but I am enjoy it. Sure as hell beats the onboard soundcard.

Binge, you were right. No issue with the noise floor. There is no more white noise or hissing. Ok, there is a very, very, faint white noise at 90%+ volume with no music playing. But I will never turn it up that high because at that point they are effectively speakers not headphones. If they were on my heads I would be deaf :p
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:02:41
Got my Modi/Magni today and am using them with a pair of Sony MDR-V600 from around the house. I know it's not the best setup ever but I am enjoy it. Sure as hell beats the onboard soundcard.

Binge, you were right. No issue with the noise floor. There is no more white noise or hissing. Ok, there is a very, very, faint white noise at 90%+ volume with no music playing. But I will never turn it up that high because at that point they are effectively speakers not headphones. If they were on my heads I would be deaf :p
Glad you liked the schiit stack!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: jwaz on Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:19:46
Picked up the O2/ODAC combo to test against my Aune with HE-400s and HD-600s. On a slightly off topic note I recently swooped an open box pair of A5+ for $240 which have been working out awesome, though I haven't really pushed 'em too hard yet (still really want Magnapans :p )
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Halverson on Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:47:39

Picked up the O2/ODAC combo to test against my Aune with HE-400s and HD-600s. On a slightly off topic note I recently swooped an open box pair of A5+ for $240 which have been working out awesome, though I haven't really pushed 'em too hard yet (still really want Magnapans :p )

I'll take those A5+ for $200 when you're done with them ;)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Fri, 20 June 2014, 03:42:49
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!

What are you using for DAC? I would love to try the Asgard. Schiit products are bang for buck but too bad the Australian distributor marks the price up 100%. Pretty much all the value is lost.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Fri, 20 June 2014, 06:48:31
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!

What are you using for DAC? I would love to try the Asgard. Schiit products are bang for buck but too bad the Australian distributor marks the price up 100%. Pretty much all the value is lost.

I use an abrahamsen a-dac 2. Its a norwegian company from the same guy that founded electrocompaniet (if thats more familiar to you). I tried it with an qnktc ab1.2 (now called henry audio usb dac 128 )  and that was amazing. I highly recommend the henry dac if youre just using usb. Links:

Henry audio usb dac 128
http://www.henryaudio.com/ (http://www.henryaudio.com/)

abrahamsen a-dac2:
http://soundnews.ro/2012/11/26/abrahamsen-a-dac-ii-review-passion-from-norway/ (http://soundnews.ro/2012/11/26/abrahamsen-a-dac-ii-review-passion-from-norway/)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Fri, 20 June 2014, 08:37:04
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!

What are you using for DAC? I would love to try the Asgard. Schiit products are bang for buck but too bad the Australian distributor marks the price up 100%. Pretty much all the value is lost.

I use an abrahamsen a-dac 2. Its a norwegian company from the same guy that founded electrocompaniet (if thats more familiar to you). I tried it with an qnktc ab1.2 (now called henry audio usb dac 128 )  and that was amazing. I highly recommend the henry dac if youre just using usb. Links:

Henry audio usb dac 128
http://www.henryaudio.com/ (http://www.henryaudio.com/)

abrahamsen a-dac2:
http://soundnews.ro/2012/11/26/abrahamsen-a-dac-ii-review-passion-from-norway/ (http://soundnews.ro/2012/11/26/abrahamsen-a-dac-ii-review-passion-from-norway/)

Awesome, thanks. I'll definitely consider the Henry Audio if I decide to upgrade in the future. It seems like technology with DACs improve at a much faster rate than amps.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: mauri on Fri, 20 June 2014, 08:42:37
Got in on the Q701 drop, even with shipping and VAT it'll still be like 50-60% cheaper than buying them here in Norway. Now I just need to find a decent amp for them that won't break my wallet. I was thinking FiiO since I've heard good things about those and they sell them in a store that's like 5 mins from here.

Plan is to get an O2, although I want to build one myself after I've got an amp that I can use so that I won't be amp-less if I **** it up. I'm thinking FiiO because even after being replaced I could still use it as a portable amp instead of leaving it to gather dust.

Also considering the Bravo that's on massdrop atm since it's quite cheap, but I'm concerned about powering it as I assume it uses a US plug, not sure how easy it would be to get it working here.

So, any suggestions? I'd prefer something I don't have to import as that'll have 25% VAT + handling fees slapped on it, but FiiO is pretty much the only decent brand you can get in stores here. Should I just go with that(if so, which models should I be looking at), or are there some that are worth importing?

I'm a bit fuzzy on the hifi area but shouldn't one need a proper soundcard too for the amp if used on a PC?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Fri, 20 June 2014, 08:47:17
Got in on the Q701 drop, even with shipping and VAT it'll still be like 50-60% cheaper than buying them here in Norway. Now I just need to find a decent amp for them that won't break my wallet. I was thinking FiiO since I've heard good things about those and they sell them in a store that's like 5 mins from here.

Plan is to get an O2, although I want to build one myself after I've got an amp that I can use so that I won't be amp-less if I **** it up. I'm thinking FiiO because even after being replaced I could still use it as a portable amp instead of leaving it to gather dust.

Also considering the Bravo that's on massdrop atm since it's quite cheap, but I'm concerned about powering it as I assume it uses a US plug, not sure how easy it would be to get it working here.

So, any suggestions? I'd prefer something I don't have to import as that'll have 25% VAT + handling fees slapped on it, but FiiO is pretty much the only decent brand you can get in stores here. Should I just go with that(if so, which models should I be looking at), or are there some that are worth importing?

I'm a bit fuzzy on the hifi area but shouldn't one need a proper soundcard too for the amp if used on a PC?

I've already got a soundcard that does the job well enough.
Anyway I went and got the FiiO E12. It's a bit pricier than what I was planning to get when I went to the store, but I'm happy with the purchase.
Although right now it's connected to a ****ty USB soundcard for a headset since I can't find a cable that will reach the back of my PC from the top of my desk.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: mauri on Fri, 20 June 2014, 08:52:58
Got in on the Q701 drop, even with shipping and VAT it'll still be like 50-60% cheaper than buying them here in Norway. Now I just need to find a decent amp for them that won't break my wallet. I was thinking FiiO since I've heard good things about those and they sell them in a store that's like 5 mins from here.

Plan is to get an O2, although I want to build one myself after I've got an amp that I can use so that I won't be amp-less if I **** it up. I'm thinking FiiO because even after being replaced I could still use it as a portable amp instead of leaving it to gather dust.

Also considering the Bravo that's on massdrop atm since it's quite cheap, but I'm concerned about powering it as I assume it uses a US plug, not sure how easy it would be to get it working here.

So, any suggestions? I'd prefer something I don't have to import as that'll have 25% VAT + handling fees slapped on it, but FiiO is pretty much the only decent brand you can get in stores here. Should I just go with that(if so, which models should I be looking at), or are there some that are worth importing?

I'm a bit fuzzy on the hifi area but shouldn't one need a proper soundcard too for the amp if used on a PC?

I've already got a soundcard that does the job well enough.
Anyway I went and got the FiiO E12. It's a bit pricier than what I was planning to get when I went to the store, but I'm happy with the purchase.
Although right now it's connected to a ****ty USB soundcard for a headset since I can't find a cable that will reach the back of my PC from the top of my desk.

Ah, I was gonna recommend ESI Juli@, I've liked it. How does it connect to the soundcard? USB or RCA?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Fri, 20 June 2014, 08:59:48
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!

What are you using for DAC? I would love to try the Asgard. Schiit products are bang for buck but too bad the Australian distributor marks the price up 100%. Pretty much all the value is lost.

I use an abrahamsen a-dac 2. Its a norwegian company from the same guy that founded electrocompaniet (if thats more familiar to you). I tried it with an qnktc ab1.2 (now called henry audio usb dac 128 )  and that was amazing. I highly recommend the henry dac if youre just using usb. Links:

Henry audio usb dac 128
http://www.henryaudio.com/ (http://www.henryaudio.com/)

abrahamsen a-dac2:
http://soundnews.ro/2012/11/26/abrahamsen-a-dac-ii-review-passion-from-norway/ (http://soundnews.ro/2012/11/26/abrahamsen-a-dac-ii-review-passion-from-norway/)

Awesome, thanks. I'll definitely consider the Henry Audio if I decide to upgrade in the future. It seems like technology with DACs improve at a much faster rate than amps.
NP, yea I agree on that dacs techology is updating much faster. Streaming, Size etc.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: vun on Fri, 20 June 2014, 09:07:55
Got in on the Q701 drop, even with shipping and VAT it'll still be like 50-60% cheaper than buying them here in Norway. Now I just need to find a decent amp for them that won't break my wallet. I was thinking FiiO since I've heard good things about those and they sell them in a store that's like 5 mins from here.

Plan is to get an O2, although I want to build one myself after I've got an amp that I can use so that I won't be amp-less if I **** it up. I'm thinking FiiO because even after being replaced I could still use it as a portable amp instead of leaving it to gather dust.

Also considering the Bravo that's on massdrop atm since it's quite cheap, but I'm concerned about powering it as I assume it uses a US plug, not sure how easy it would be to get it working here.

So, any suggestions? I'd prefer something I don't have to import as that'll have 25% VAT + handling fees slapped on it, but FiiO is pretty much the only decent brand you can get in stores here. Should I just go with that(if so, which models should I be looking at), or are there some that are worth importing?

I'm a bit fuzzy on the hifi area but shouldn't one need a proper soundcard too for the amp if used on a PC?

I've already got a soundcard that does the job well enough.
Anyway I went and got the FiiO E12. It's a bit pricier than what I was planning to get when I went to the store, but I'm happy with the purchase.
Although right now it's connected to a ****ty USB soundcard for a headset since I can't find a cable that will reach the back of my PC from the top of my desk.

Ah, I was gonna recommend ESI Juli@, I've liked it. How does it connect to the soundcard? USB or RCA?

The E12 is a portable headphone amp, so it only connects via 3.5mm jack. It's got a USB port but that's only used for charging. Nothing fancy, but it does the job fine until I can be bothered with a proper setup and will keep being useful as a portable amp after that.

I think my proper soundcard might be dead tho, so there's that.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 20 June 2014, 23:16:30
I'm tempted to get an amp to make my setup look a bit cleaner. But I only have some ATH M50s, and I have no idea where to start when it comes to tubes/DACs/amps.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Acknown3 on Sat, 21 June 2014, 00:22:54
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!

What are you using for DAC? I would love to try the Asgard. Schiit products are bang for buck but too bad the Australian distributor marks the price up 100%. Pretty much all the value is lost.
I'm using a Modi simply because I didn't feel comfortable dropping $400+ on the Bifrost. It stacks rather nicely on top of the A2, just barely (a millimeter or two) over the top grill.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Sat, 21 June 2014, 05:36:11
Just got an Asgard 2. HUGE improvement from my Aune T1 with an Amperex 7308 OG. It sounds less warm in the mids, but there's so much more detail!

Congrats! I has an asgard 2 as well and its lovely!

What are you using for DAC? I would love to try the Asgard. Schiit products are bang for buck but too bad the Australian distributor marks the price up 100%. Pretty much all the value is lost.
I'm using a Modi simply because I didn't feel comfortable dropping $400+ on the Asgard. It stacks rather nicely on top of the A2, just barely (a millimeter or two) over the top grill.

Did you mean bifrost when you mentioned the DAC? Nice that it stacks so well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Tue, 15 July 2014, 16:04:03
I have a pair of Koss PortaPro in the post! They should arrive tomorrow! :D
I have quite a lot of hair on my head so I'm a little bit worried about getting my hair caught in the headband but other wise I think I'll be fine - Plus I could just get a shorter haircut for £7.

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Tue, 15 July 2014, 16:06:44
Wait - wrong thread.

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Sun, 09 November 2014, 00:21:28
*not quite necro* This post is a copy of what I posted on Head-Fi (my first post).

Today I upgraded the caps in my Aune T1.  In my searches through the Head-Fi thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq) I've seen some questions about what the stock caps actually are.

Here's what my stock caps were:
Main primary power supply caps (C35, C36): Lelon RXW-series 3300uF 25V (datasheet PDF (http://www.lelon.com.tw/down.php?f=%2Ffile%2F27.pdf&n=RXW.pdf)) - decent specs, but too high capacitance to measure with my LCR to confirm
Secondary caps (C55, C56): Panasonic FC-series 330uF 35V (datasheet PDF (http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/ABA0000/ABA0000CE22.pdf)) - good caps, measure low-ESR in my LCR
Amp board rail voltage caps (C51, C59): Nichicon VR-series 470uF 25V (datasheet PDF (http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-vr.pdf)) - good caps, measure low-ESR in my LCR
Amp board coupling caps (C32, C52): Elna RJ3-series 100uF 25V (datasheet PDF (http://www.elna-america.com/products/pdf_files/AL/RJ3.pdf)) - good caps for GP usage

As for the red film caps, things got a bit interesting.

Caps marked u1J63: (C33/34/53/54, amp C50/58) 0.1uF 63V 5%, appear to be Wima MKS-2 series, but terrible ESR measurements! (all 6 tested the same)
100Hz: 27.3 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/BwjdGhJ.jpg)
1KHz: 6.8 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/GH8vM8v.jpg)
10KHz: 1.59 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/YKU7FGU.jpg)
100KHZ: 0.36 ohm
(http://i.imgur.com/qx3HHpa.jpg)

Caps marked 1uK63: (C16/46/47) 1uF 63V 10%, likely Wima MKS-2 series, ESR tests fine
100Hz: 1.7 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/qAiArDm.jpg)
1KHz: 0.58 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/YQjRiYM.jpg)
10KHz: 0.15 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/6V7zLA4.jpg)
100KHz: 0.04 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/vn0wdvQ.jpg)

The caps marked as Wima 0.47uF 100V seem to be proper 5% MKS-2 series and ESR tests are in line with the smaller MKS-2 0.47uF 63V 5% caps I got, so I left them in.

I followed the PDF guide from Mikoss (on Head-Fi) for replacements (much thanks!) of the electrolytics.  For the Wimas I used MKP-2 for the 0.1uF and MKS-2 for the 1uF (no 1uF MKP-2's).  All caps received extra insulation with Kapton tape where they contact any other components (C56 got more as it almost touches the tube socket leads).

Wima MKP-2 0.1uF 100V 5%: Huge improvement!
100Hz: 0.4 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/1cY6OwM.jpg)
1KHz: 0.19 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/pTqaPYq.jpg)
10KHz: 0.02 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/6fTivo4.jpg)
100KHz: 0.02 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/yr0XKCE.jpg)

Wima MKS-2 1uF 63V 5%: - similar measurements as the smaller original caps, but benefit from 5% tolerance
100Hz: 2.1 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/R0vPXpm.jpg)
1KHz: 0.61 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/jcAJyuj.jpg)
10KHz: 0.15 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/bpbWYNN.jpg)
100KHz: 0.04 ohms
(http://i.imgur.com/8ttskre.jpg)

Stock pcbs and new caps: Elna Silmic II for secondary power supply and amp board, Panasonic FR for primary power supply filtering, Wima MKP-2/MKS-2 film caps where needed
(http://i.imgur.com/njNHp0v.jpg)

Primary caps:
(http://i.imgur.com/dET1NM4.jpg)

Hey, where's the Wimas!: so much more room for the Silmics though
(http://i.imgur.com/rhjv2zw.jpg)

Wimas moved to other side of pcb: plenty of room for all
(http://i.imgur.com/kB5SMfw.jpg)

Main pcb done: not bad!
(http://i.imgur.com/NzgnoJY.jpg)

Amp pcb done:
(http://i.imgur.com/Cxn9ePC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ipEk0Z2.jpg)

Assembled component side: had to trim the RCA board's jumper wire connectors to clear the caps
(http://i.imgur.com/UuvV1Dl.jpg)

Assembled socket side: looks like it was meant to be!
(http://i.imgur.com/FLlFOte.jpg)

I had to further attach the RCA wiring with Kapton tape so the bottom lid would close properly.

I still need to run this thing to allow the caps to settle, but so far it's quite nice.  I dropped my gain from 6dB to 0dB, as it was a bit harsh.  Stock 6922EH works well, but I want better!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: feizor on Sun, 09 November 2014, 03:13:28
How long does it take to run in these new caps? Keen to see the improvements!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Sun, 09 November 2014, 11:57:49
About 24 hours or so from what I've read.  I've only got 8 hours on them so far, it's hard to do a back to back comparison when it took so long to do the swap.  I haven't seen anyone touch the Wimas before, but I'm glad I did!  In total I was probably 4-5 hours, but a lot of that was measurement, documentation, and doing final fitment of the Silmics (and modifying the RCA jumper connectors).

Right now, raspy voices still have a bit of an edge.  It was much more pronounced at the 6dB gain I was set at before with the new caps at 0 hours.  I'm not an audiophile with a bunch of testing tracks and fancy vocabulary, but I do try to hear differences.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: blackbox on Mon, 10 November 2014, 08:43:54
Very nice mod. Have done some condensator swaps earlier and for me it has been a huge upgrade. Ofc it really depends on the difrence between the old and new caps and what the caps are used for.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 10 November 2014, 13:58:19
Apart from the 0.1uF film caps, none of mine tested bad from a narrow ESR point of view.  I wish I tested the Dissipation Factor (% of signal dissipated into the dielectric) before the new caps went in, but I do have a pair of 100uF Silmic II's that I didn't use and can compare to the Elna RJ3's that came out (same uF/volt ratings).  Dissipation Factor is usually rated at 120Hz and naturally increases non-linearly with frequency, but in audio coupling caps (which these Elna RJ3's are acting as) a high DF can reduce the output at audible frequencies so I tested higher.  Typical max acceptable limits for DF are 0.25 at 120Hz, and 0.4 at 1KHz.  ESR in coupling capacitors is also very important as the ideal capacitor is no capacitor (but that pesky DC won't allow us not to have one), so the lower the ESR we can get the better.  The other electrolytics used are for power and voltage rails, so high-freq DF isn't as important.

Elna RJ3 100uF 25V (stock coupling capacitors on amp board; both caps measured very close in DF):
100Hz: 1.23 ohm ESR, 0.076 DF
1KHz: 0.825 ohm ESR, 0.489 DF
10KHz: 0.748 ohm ESR, 3.53 DF
100KHz: 0.658 ohm ESR, 17.37 DF

Elna Silmic II 100uF 25V:
100Hz: 0.68 ohm ESR, 0.046 DF
1KHz: 0.282 ohm ESR, 0.17 DF
10KHz: 0.228 ohm ESR, 1.24 DF
100KHz: 0.208 ohm ESR, 8.47 DF

From a purely ESR point of view, the stock Elna RJ3 is in line with the general purpose cap it was meant to be.  Not horrible ESR, but for audio we can certainly strive for better and the Silmic II delivers.

Moving on to the Dissipation Factor, however... Starting with 1KHz, we can see from the DF that the stock Elna RJ3 is already uncomfortable and gives the sense that it will rise too quickly inside the audible range.  Moving on up to 10KHz tells us how well the cap will behave in the middle of our audible range, and the stock cap has decided that we don't need 3.5% of it.  The Silmic II dissipates almost a third of the stock cap at 10KHz, so there's very clearly an improvement where we'll hear it.  100KHz is clearly 5x our audible range, but it helps to give the impression of how the cap does from 10-20KHz, and the stock cap isn't great.

I have a used Rubycon YXG (high ripple long life, otherwise basic) 100uF 25V that I pulled from a random board that has a DF of 0.84 at 10KHz, so the stock Elna RJ3 can suck it (I have many other used general-purpose-ish caps that have better DF than this Elna RJ3 at all frequencies).

As for burn-in, at about 18 hours I could increase the gain back up to 6dB and have less harshness than 8 hours at 0dB gain.  I'm at 30 hours now, at 6dB gain which works well with my DT990Pro 250-ohms, and things have settled very nicely.  I clearly need a better tube than the stock 6922EH, but the sound is silky smooth and instruments have nice placement.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 November 2014, 19:04:30
So would a Vali/Loki combination work as well as a Modi/Magni combination? I'm looking to get a good setup for both speakers and headphones, and I am looking for some advice. (I have no idea what DSD is)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 17 November 2014, 19:22:24
So would a Vali/Loki combination work as well as a Modi/Magni combination? I'm looking to get a good setup for both speakers and headphones, and I am looking for some advice. (I have no idea what DSD is)

If you don't know DSD, don't get a loki, that's all it does.  Vali is, roughly, a tube version of the magni so you'd get either the magni or vali and modi.  If you had or were going to get DSD, then you'd add the loki.  The loki is their jab at dsd, which is the current gen version of the super hi fidelity format that about 12 people really care about and no one else will support.  So superCD, dvd audio, mini disk and etc.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 November 2014, 19:45:50
So would a Vali/Loki combination work as well as a Modi/Magni combination? I'm looking to get a good setup for both speakers and headphones, and I am looking for some advice. (I have no idea what DSD is)

If you don't know DSD, don't get a loki, that's all it does.  Vali is, roughly, a tube version of the magni so you'd get either the magni or vali and modi.  If you had or were going to get DSD, then you'd add the loki.  The loki is their jab at dsd, which is the current gen version of the super hi fidelity format that about 12 people really care about and no one else will support.  So superCD, dvd audio, mini disk and etc.

Wow, Minidisk eh? Thanks, that does help improve my very limited knowledge about these things :) Are they ok for speaker output as well or just headphones?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 17 November 2014, 19:48:46
So would a Vali/Loki combination work as well as a Modi/Magni combination? I'm looking to get a good setup for both speakers and headphones, and I am looking for some advice. (I have no idea what DSD is)

If you don't know DSD, don't get a loki, that's all it does.  Vali is, roughly, a tube version of the magni so you'd get either the magni or vali and modi.  If you had or were going to get DSD, then you'd add the loki.  The loki is their jab at dsd, which is the current gen version of the super hi fidelity format that about 12 people really care about and no one else will support.  So superCD, dvd audio, mini disk and etc.

Wow, Minidisk eh? Thanks, that does help improve my very limited knowledge about these things :) Are they ok for speaker output as well or just headphones?

They're ok to preamp a set of powered speakers, but not to be the amp for a set of passive speakers, no.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 November 2014, 20:01:51
Wow, Minidisk eh? Thanks, that does help improve my very limited knowledge about these things :) Are they ok for speaker output as well or just headphones?

They're ok to preamp a set of powered speakers, but not to be the amp for a set of passive speakers, no.

Sweet. That's what I've got at the moment, a set of 5:1 speakers, just need to get a 5mm jack adapter for the cable and I shall be good to go :)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 17 November 2014, 21:39:52
I have a pair of Koss PortaPro in the post! They should arrive tomorrow! :D
I have quite a lot of hair on my head so I'm a little bit worried about getting my hair caught in the headband but other wise I think I'll be fine - Plus I could just get a shorter haircut for �7.



Everytime I see you I wanna pinch your little cheeks like a Jewish grandmother. Ohhhhhh!
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: The Mad Professor on Fri, 21 November 2014, 10:24:30
Okay, I need a recommendation.

I have ordered a pair of DT880s from Massdrop and I would like to purchase a portable amp and DAC for them. My budget is $400-$500 for the two. Which ones should I get to provide the best bang for my buck?


Note: I have ordered the 250 Ohm, but I can easily upgrade it to the 600 Ohm pair if necessary.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Binge on Fri, 21 November 2014, 10:42:05
Okay, I need a recommendation.

I have ordered a pair of DT880s from Massdrop and I would like to purchase a portable amp and DAC for them. My budget is $400-$500 for the two. Which ones should I get to provide the best bang for my buck?


Note: I have ordered the 250 Ohm, but I can easily upgrade it to the 600 Ohm pair if necessary.

JDS labs C5D.  It is a wonderful little box, and I've used 880s on it before.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: cmadrid on Thu, 26 February 2015, 16:12:46
I'm thinking I might go for a Magni 2 + Modi 2  'uber' stack.. when I a chance
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 26 February 2015, 20:55:22
I'm thinking I might go for a Magni 2 + Modi 2  'uber' stack.. when I a chance

Coming from someone with one for the last month, you won't go wrong.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: The Mad Professor on Fri, 27 February 2015, 08:47:31
Okay, I have a Schiit Magni, and it powers my Polk Audio Buckles very nicely. However, it doesn't provide good volume for my DT-880 600-Ohms. I was thinking of upgrading to the Magni 2 Uber, but I wonder if I would be better off going up to the Schiit Asgard 2... Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: cmadrid on Fri, 27 February 2015, 08:52:29
Shoot an email to the folks over at Schiit, they seem to be super helpful and nice
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: The Mad Professor on Fri, 27 February 2015, 09:05:28
Shoot an email to the folks over at Schiit, they seem to be super helpful and nice

I would, but they have an automatic bias in this discussion, as it's their revenue in discussion. I'm fairly certain that they would give me the correct answer based on the information provided, but there will always be lingering doubts.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: cmadrid on Sat, 28 February 2015, 11:24:58
Shoot an email to the folks over at Schiit, they seem to be super helpful and nice

I would, but they have an automatic bias in this discussion, as it's their revenue in discussion. I'm fairly certain that they would give me the correct answer based on the information provided, but there will always be lingering doubts.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family/1695


Lots of talk about them over there..  I don't think Schiit would lie to get a few extra bucks tho.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Sat, 04 April 2015, 16:19:19
I was playing around with my audio settings in linux (got a new mic), and was curious what the max bitrate on my modi was. Just learned that they have a new magni/modi 2 - although I guess I am behind the curve there.

The modi 2 doesn't seem very different, just a higher bitrate that won't be used. The modi 2 uber looks great if you need many connectors, but I am happy with usb for now so I think I will keep the modi 1. What really interests me is the Magni 2 as it adds the much needed gain switch. Right now I don't take the volume over 30% with my 250Ohm DT 770's for fear of deafening myself, at 100% volume they could be speakers for the room. I don't think I will need the extra power the uber provides as the magni 1 is already too powerful, and I don't have a use for preamping at the moment.

So, of the new releases what I really want is the magni 2. I would buy the new stack but I don't want to put down another $200 when my current stack works fine and their won't be a large audio improvement. With that in mind, would anyone consider buying my stack at a reduced price? You get a decent and cheap stack for even cheaper, and I can grab the new stack without too much of a loss :thumb: I would also be up for just trading the magni/magni2 as the modi1 is fine for my needs. Thanks.

I guess I should make a thread in the classified if there is interest?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: sems on Sun, 22 January 2017, 08:51:02
Does Geekhack folks love daps?
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 24 January 2017, 16:21:08
.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 23 April 2018, 16:49:14
What's  the current good and cheap DAC/Amp combo?

Would be used with computer at a desk most likely with sennheiser HD598.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: davkol on Mon, 23 April 2018, 17:00:30
HD 558… Anything goes.

_Some_ extra amp might help with the impedance spike, but that's about it.

I'm more concerned about getting an external *sound card* that can both power vintage headphones _and_ work with a cheap consumer mic (or a mid-fi headset).

Everyone seems to recommend Focusrite Scarlett, but it's geared towards big-ass mics that I don't need in the office. A 3.5mm jack for a mic is present basically only on cheap consumer grade stuff (C-Media dongles, I have one) or external Asus Xonar, but those are a pita driver-wise (still better than Creative though).
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: portbaron on Wed, 02 May 2018, 14:43:53
I got a JDS Labs Element and am happy with it. It's one piece, clean look, and can have custom laser etching of whatever image you want on the top, because A E S T H E T I C S.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 02 May 2018, 16:38:02
Dragonfly Black seems to be commonly recommended for a small USB DAC+Amp combo power moderate-level cans. Pretty badass form factor, IMO.

Shiit Magni 3 + Modi 2 Uber or a O2 Amp + DAC are the step-up run-of-the-mill for something higher impedance or lower sensitivity that you want to plug into a wall.

Beyond that, you probably shouldn't need many recommendations, you should be auditioning stuff in person.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: yuppie on Wed, 02 May 2018, 16:41:40
I've been running the ifi Micro iDSD for quite some time and love it.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: dubious on Wed, 02 May 2018, 17:33:19
Schitt Fulla 2 is a really good all-in-one, dac/amp combo for the price. I really like mine (and all schitt's stuff)

schitt magni 2 + modi 2 is really popular as well and recommended almost everywhere.

Zeos has a good list (https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/66xylk/guide_dac_amp_combo_units/) on reddit of introductory setups.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tactile on Wed, 02 May 2018, 17:52:03
I've had a JDS Labs stack for about a year. OL DAC, Objective2 headphone amp, and OL Switcher driving Grado SR225e headphones and PreSonus Eris E4.5 speakers.

It all sounds great to me but someone who can hear better than me (just about anyone) might think it sounds horrible.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: PadawanGeek on Sun, 06 May 2018, 11:07:52
I've been running the ifi Micro iDSD for quite some time and love it.
I have the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, iFi DAC combo's are hardly mentioned in the few forums I got to, as well as the Nano iDSD and use it once in a while. I also have the Fostex HPA4 and a Gustard H10 + X12 stack....yes, I'm something of a hoarder.... :-[
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: goodman247 on Thu, 31 May 2018, 22:33:06
I have a Topping DX7, this bad boy's size is great and can basically handle almost all the headphones with a nice balance sound.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 01 June 2018, 05:53:57
how bout dat monoprice amp any gud"
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: floatingskull on Thu, 07 June 2018, 13:15:56
I have the iFi AUDIO Micro IDSD Black Label and after testing against many other nice amp/dac combos, this really has the best price to audio quality ratio I can find. Also has a ton of nice features and a big battery for portability.

Good review here:
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JP on Tue, 28 May 2019, 21:21:19
What's the best budget / audiophile DAC to get for a desktop PC? I've been having some issues with audio on my desktop possibly related to driver / Windows 10 bugs, or some faulty motherboard so started looking into external DAC's. I have Audio Engine A2 speakers and Sony MDR 7506 headphones.

I was checking out the Audioengine D1 which is a bit up there in price and certainly wouldn't pay more than this one already is.

Also I see the FiiO E10K is more affordable.

Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: Tactile on Tue, 28 May 2019, 21:33:02
What's the best budget / audiophile DAC to get for a desktop PC? I've been having some issues with audio on my desktop possibly related to driver / Windows 10 bugs, or some faulty motherboard so started looking into external DAC's.

I was checking out the Audioengine D1 which is a bit up there in price and certainly wouldn't pay more than this one already is.

Also I see the FiiO E10K is more affordable.

I'm not an audophile but I've had my OL DAC from JDS Labs (https://jdslabs.com/product/ol-dac/) for more than a year and it seems to work fine.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: JP on Tue, 28 May 2019, 21:40:58
I'm not an audophile but I've had my OL DAC from JDS Labs (https://jdslabs.com/product/ol-dac/) for more than a year and it seems to work fine.

[Edits]
This looks like the one to get spec wise but am not sure yet.

This would be great for my speakers but if I still wanted headphones I'd also need a separate amp for headphones +100 and then there is their OL switcher which is $45. That would all be pricey and be a lot of clutter. This or their all in one unit the Element is $350  :'( so not sure yet.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: AlexeiSayle on Sat, 04 April 2020, 18:41:42
Here is my review so far for iFi Zen DAC

I am relatively new to Hi-Res Audio and MQA etc... etc...
The short review: Awesome, go get yourself one immediately. It was only $139 after taxes on Amazon.
TOTALLY Worth it!

Details: It does not come with a 5v power supply. however you apparently can purchase one. I haven't needed one yet. I connect it to my USB port (So I can Stream MQA from TIDAL) and it gets it power from that. There are probably situations that someone would want external 5vdc to power this... but...

It comes with an RCA connector (unbalanced) so you can connect audio to your receiver/amp.
The power match button... (Gain button) - makes it louder. Apparently this is to drive difficult headphones.. Seems nice... I like louder.

TrueBass button : this is pretty darn awesome. It really makes the bottom end clear and separated. not muddy at all. EXCEPT... I did notice some heavier type music when it was better to turn TrueBass off. But in general it is really nice.

The Volume knob turns very nicely, and the dial "Glows" depending on the Audio Resolution... As always The MQA Purple is my favorite.

I did load the USB driver from the iFi website... (I really didn't need to) anyway... I loaded it, then I couldn't see the device... Until I went back on the website and loaded the older driver that was available... then I was good again.

Links :

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac/

https://www.audioreputation.com/ifi-zen-dac/
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: PadawanGeek on Mon, 06 April 2020, 08:54:20
Hey, nice short and sweet impression of the iFi Zen DAC, always liked iFi, I have the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label and I love it. It shares equal 'head' time (using various headphones) with my excellent Oppo HA-1.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: PadawanGeek on Wed, 08 April 2020, 22:43:09
the earpads on my Grado GS1000i has been disintegrating as of late, so I'd gone online to order two pairs or replacement pads, one pair for Grado GS/PS series, the other, a pair of smaller SR series pads. I decided to try the smaller SR compatible pads first, saving the GS/PS compatible for later.
(https://i.imgur.com/yKDnurX.jpg)

Speaking of earpads, since we're in the midst of COVID-19 and I find myself spending even more time at home, I rummaged through my collection of cans, decided to break out my HFM HE-4, I'd also found a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Pads (sheepskin). I mounted them on my HE-4 and have been using it on my Oppo HA-1, also using a custom made 4pin Balanced cable I'd bought back when I was into buying tons of audio gear. Now enjoying the fruits of that phase I'd gone through.
(https://i.imgur.com/qF5BP9h.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: fliz on Fri, 22 May 2020, 21:08:49
I wholeheartedly recommend John Tucker of eXemplar Audio's gear. If it's in your budget, or you find something used on Audiogon, you won't be disappointed. I've been buying his gear for well over a decade, almost all of it secondhand.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: typo on Mon, 01 June 2020, 23:39:18
I did not read this. the best thing I have ever heard and own is the phonitor. any of them. they are all the same, just different features. I did not know if this was about a budget or something. I use them with the Utopia and the Z1R. Solid state or tubes I feel there is none better. YMMV. That is just the Amp. For the DAC I vote MSB Select DAC II Loaded with Mono power bases. Of course a system like this is going to employ loudspeakers as well.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 06 June 2020, 18:14:58
My okay setup, which is still a nice upgrade from the e10k I was using before. Used this as a reason to finally replace the terrible stock cable on the AD900X, so I made one with Mogami 2893 and a 1/4" plug.

(https://i.imgur.com/FfZFOuw.jpg)
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 06 June 2020, 23:32:13
How does this work if there's an impedance mismatch.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: jamster on Mon, 08 June 2020, 20:34:27
How does this work if there's an impedance mismatch.

It's really hard to encounter this kind of problem with most gear. Normal headphones will range from perhaps 50-300 Ohms. Most headphone amps will be well under ten, probably 1 Ohm or less.

If someone has a really badly designed amp with high impedance, and they plug in very low impedance planar headphones, it could sound wonky. I suspect I've encountered this problem myself recently when plugging in very low impedance planars into my laptop audio jack, but this was a very unusual use case.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: CoolMike on Thu, 25 June 2020, 09:07:54
I just realized this thread even existed-

If anyone is looking for a high quality budget setup (next step say from gaming headphones) I bought a FiiO K3 DAC/AMP Combo with Philips Fidelios x2HRs and it sounds fantastic as well as works well with gaming (foot steps and such also.)

I've been using this for almost 9 months now and no complaints. I paid roughly 200 together for both as there was a sale right before Black Friday.
Title: Re: Headphone Amp/DAC Thread
Post by: PadawanGeek on Wed, 01 July 2020, 00:59:03
In a way, my purchase of an iBasso DC02 falls in this category as the DC02 acts a USB-C DAC combo adapter for phone that don't have those useful 3.5mm audio port. It can be used on deaktops as well as it comes with a USB-C to USB Type A (male) adapter as well, I got it because my main phone and Tab S5e do not have audio ports, so having a USB-C to 3.5mm DAC combo for portable device really helps....
(https://i.imgur.com/AqY9Vl8.jpg)