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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 14:57:57

Title: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 14:57:57
I've finally gotten my first mechanical keyboard. It's Filco TKL on Brown Switches. I like the way it looks. I can't hardly feel the tactile of brown switches but maybe it's because I was using cheap keyboards for long time.
But now I think that I need another keyboard for work. So could you guys help me to choose another keyboard for work.
Here are some my criteria:
It should be TKL.
There should be no rattling for big keys that use stabilizers (It's annoying =( and I don't understand why left shift and spacebar has rattling only when touching right side of them...but left side is solid and doesn't have idling...)
I don't know for sure but maybe it should be enough similar with the one I have in the meaning of feeling (tactile but not clicky)

Thanks in advance!  :)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Moosecraft on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:00:46
Only on your second board?  :))
Maybe get a Ducky one if you don't like costar stabilizers.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:01:28
Take out the white plastic stabilizers from the "rattly" keys and put them in wrapped in a single layer of teflon tape (pipe tape).  Then also grease the stabilizers (I've seen Mechlube from EK being recommended as good stabilizer grease).
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:03:20
Only on your second board?  :))
Maybe get a Ducky one if you don't like costar stabilizers.

I don't know if I like them or not :-D
I haven't used cherry stabilizers.
Maybe I did something wrong when I was adding o-ring to my keycaps.... I don't understand.... The rigth shift more solid on the right side... :)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:04:44
dell.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:05:47
Take out the white plastic stabilizers from the "rattly" keys and put them in wrapped in a single layer of teflon tape (pipe tape).  Then also grease the stabilizers (I've seen Mechlube from EK being recommended as good stabilizer grease).

Teflon tape? What is it? (sorry, I don't know :( )
Show Image
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7tbiAb8C5aJ_NoJQGaiz178Y4YH-Sho4a5pJTx9hnbOQldePnrA)
?
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:07:05
It's very thin stretchy tape made with Teflon; it's used to wrap around threaded parts of water pipes to seal pipe joints:

(http://www.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0/13f/8/AAAADD4YEVoAAAAAAT-MTA.jpg?v=1301561307000)

(http://411plumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Plumbers-Tape-Teflon-Wrapping-Pipe.jpg)

Alternatively you could try thin transparent wrap that you wrap food in to store in refrigerator.

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/fresh_film_cutter_box_Saran_wrap_cutter.jpg)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:12:07
It's very thin stretchy tape made with Teflon; it's used to wrap around threaded parts of water pipes to seal pipe joints:

Show Image
(http://www.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0/13f/8/AAAADD4YEVoAAAAAAT-MTA.jpg?v=1301561307000)


Show Image
(http://411plumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Plumbers-Tape-Teflon-Wrapping-Pipe.jpg)


Alternatively you could try thin transparent wrap that you wrap food in to store in refrigerator.

Show Image
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/fresh_film_cutter_box_Saran_wrap_cutter.jpg)


But it could influence on the travelling of metal part inside this plastic part, couldn't it? Or maybe I didn't understand you correctly...
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:13:42
Photos:

(http://i.imgur.com/oQElsM2.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/tLYRRva.jpg)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:15:51
No, I'll take a picture in a minute.

Thank you!

I was thinking of doing such thing but was wondering why some side of a key is working fine but the other is not...
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: xmagusx on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:30:00
Invest in an ErgoDox (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox/).
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:32:02
Invest in an ErgoDox (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox/).

Exactly..

OP, your already made a grave mistake in your first keyboard.

Now is the time to correct that mistake...  (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/df13952b.gif)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:35:29
Invest in an ErgoDox (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox/).

=) Thank you but I like the regular layout of keys =)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:37:55
Invest in an ErgoDox (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox/).

Exactly..

OP, your already made a grave mistake in your first keyboard.

Now is the time to correct that mistake... 
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/df13952b.gif)


I don't now why but I feel that you are trying to troll me =))

Why Filco MJ2 tkl is wrong choice?
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:38:31
I don't now why but I feel that you are trying to troll me =))

He more or less is :)  I've updated my post with photographs.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:39:28
I don't now why but I feel that you are trying to troll me =))

He more or less is :)  I've updated my post with photographs.

I saw them. Thank you! Have you done this upgrade with your keyboard?
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:40:24
Yes, both of my Filcos.  It does help.  And make sure you insert the white pieces correctly (they are not symmetrical, so the direction matters).
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:45:34
Yes, both of my Filcos.  It does help.  And make sure you insert the white pieces correctly (they are not symmetrical, so the direction matters).

Thanks! I will take a photo of them before starting =)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:48:16
The pipe tape is more for those caps that don't fit snuggly.  If yours fit well and don't wiggle, you don't need to use the tape.  The grease is to reduce the "jitter" sound and make the wires move more smoothly in those white plastic inserts.  Otherwise I think some of the rattling comes from slightly deformed / bent stabilizer wire or warped spacebars (in case of PBT spacebars, but yours is stock ABS and is most likely fine).
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:51:15
The pipe tape is more for those caps that don't fit snuggly.  If yours fit well and don't wiggle, you don't need to use the tape.  The grease is to reduce the "jitter" sound and make the wires move more smoothly in those white plastic inserts.  Otherwise I think some of the rattling comes from slightly deformed / bent stabilizer wire or warped spacebars (in case of PBT spacebars, but yours is stock ABS and is most likely fine).

I've tried to push with some more power on the right shift and now both side have rattling effect %) So maybe pipe tape will help me =)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:53:16
Well if you take off the keycap and look at how the white pieces fit: if they wobble, you should use tape.  If they don't and sit firmly, they are not the problem.  If they are fine, I'd see about bending the stabilizer wire slightly upward.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Mon, 26 August 2013, 16:00:47
If they are fine, I'd see about bending the stabilizer wire slightly upward.

O.o how? I don't understand =(
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Danule on Mon, 26 August 2013, 18:22:13
Lubing the stabalizer inserts will get rid of the rattleing. :)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Tue, 27 August 2013, 01:14:53
Lubing the stabalizer inserts will get rid of the rattleing. :)

I hope so... but there is no rattling, for example, on left side of left shift because there is no idle when touching left side...but idle presents when touching right side of this key...
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Wed, 25 September 2013, 16:56:39
So I've solved my problem with rattling :) and now I'm going to buy my second mechanical keyboard :)
Maybe there will be a chance to get it in 2 weeks from USA (I hope my friend will find some place in his luggage :rolleyes:)
So What would you recommend as second TKL keyboard?
WASD V2 on Clears or Leopold on Browns from EliteKeyboards? Or maybe to wait for Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Another options?
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 25 September 2013, 17:38:59
So I've solved my problem with rattling :) and now I'm going to buy my second mechanical keyboard :)
Maybe there will be a chance to get it in 2 weeks from USA (I hope my friend will find some place in his luggage :rolleyes:)
So What would you recommend as second TKL keyboard?
WASD V2 on Clears or Leopold on Browns from EliteKeyboards? Or maybe to wait for Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Another options?
Thanks in advance!

V2 with clears is out of stock indefinitely.

My personal opinion on Leopold is that it's the 3rd best keyboard brand, only surpassed by Filco and any sort of Korean custom.

Shine 3 is alright, but I don't get all the hype behind it.

Personally, I'd say try and get a Filco, but if you can't, grab the Leopold.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Wed, 25 September 2013, 20:44:08
So I've solved my problem with rattling :) and now I'm going to buy my second mechanical keyboard :)
Maybe there will be a chance to get it in 2 weeks from USA (I hope my friend will find some place in his luggage :rolleyes:)
So What would you recommend as second TKL keyboard?
WASD V2 on Clears or Leopold on Browns from EliteKeyboards? Or maybe to wait for Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Another options?
Thanks in advance!

V2 with clears is out of stock indefinitely.

My personal opinion on Leopold is that it's the 3rd best keyboard brand, only surpassed by Filco and any sort of Korean custom.

Shine 3 is alright, but I don't get all the hype behind it.

Personally, I'd say try and get a Filco, but if you can't, grab the Leopold.
V2's with clears are actually back in stock as of Monday, I believe it's CODE keyboards that will be w/o clears indefinitely.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 20:56:08
I have actually done the exact same thing as what you are doing.

I have a Filco TKL with Browns at home.  I replaced the keycaps with PBTs and that keyboard is absolutely awesome.  I love it. 

I originally bought a Cooler Master Quickfire TKL with Blues for work because it was on super sale, but the blue switches just don't work for me.  A co-worker loves that keyboard, so he is currently using it.  I replaced my work keyboard with a Filco 104 White Ninja with Red switches.  Coming from Brown switches, I am still getting used to the Reds.  It is at least a comfortable transition though.  I still think that Browns are my personal favourite switch, but I am also very happy with my Reds.  The main reason I changed my work keyboard was because the transition from the browns at home to the blues at work drove me nuts. 

The browns definitely make more noise than the reds do.  If you are concerned with how loud the keyboard is at work, you may want to think about a linear switch.  One other thing to consider for reducing the noise is to add an o-ring mod.  I have o-ring mods on all of my keyboards and I think it makes a huge difference when it comes to typing feel and noise.

I stand by my decision to buy a TKL for home because I wanted to keep the keyboard smaller.  I chose to get a 104 for work because I am a developer and typing IPs and netmasks on a TKL all the time can get annoying.  I have the space at work, so its not a problem...

I am very happy with my Filco keyboards and I would recommend this brand to anyone.

Not sure if that is helpful at all, but I figured my experience was relevant...

Good luck and enjoy your new keyboard.  :)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:04:12
So I've solved my problem with rattling :) and now I'm going to buy my second mechanical keyboard :)
Maybe there will be a chance to get it in 2 weeks from USA (I hope my friend will find some place in his luggage :rolleyes:)
So What would you recommend as second TKL keyboard?
WASD V2 on Clears or Leopold on Browns from EliteKeyboards? Or maybe to wait for Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Another options?
Thanks in advance!

V2 with clears is out of stock indefinitely.

My personal opinion on Leopold is that it's the 3rd best keyboard brand, only surpassed by Filco and any sort of Korean custom.

Shine 3 is alright, but I don't get all the hype behind it.

Personally, I'd say try and get a Filco, but if you can't, grab the Leopold.
V2's with clears are actually back in stock as of Monday, I believe it's CODE keyboards that will be w/o clears indefinitely.


We won't have any more Clear switches for approximately 12-14 months. This applies to both CODE and V2 keyboards.


Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:10:35
So I've solved my problem with rattling :) and now I'm going to buy my second mechanical keyboard :)
Maybe there will be a chance to get it in 2 weeks from USA (I hope my friend will find some place in his luggage :rolleyes:)
So What would you recommend as second TKL keyboard?
WASD V2 on Clears or Leopold on Browns from EliteKeyboards? Or maybe to wait for Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Another options?
Thanks in advance!

V2 with clears is out of stock indefinitely.

My personal opinion on Leopold is that it's the 3rd best keyboard brand, only surpassed by Filco and any sort of Korean custom.

Shine 3 is alright, but I don't get all the hype behind it.

Personally, I'd say try and get a Filco, but if you can't, grab the Leopold.
V2's with clears are actually back in stock as of Monday, I believe it's CODE keyboards that will be w/o clears indefinitely.


We won't have any more Clear switches for approximately 12-14 months. This applies to both CODE and V2 keyboards.
Well, I'm confused then because I was just able to customize a V2 104 with clear switches, I thought they said they had a reserved batch of them for custom v2 orders..
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:11:45
So I've solved my problem with rattling :) and now I'm going to buy my second mechanical keyboard :)
Maybe there will be a chance to get it in 2 weeks from USA (I hope my friend will find some place in his luggage :rolleyes:)
So What would you recommend as second TKL keyboard?
WASD V2 on Clears or Leopold on Browns from EliteKeyboards? Or maybe to wait for Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Another options?
Thanks in advance!

V2 with clears is out of stock indefinitely.

My personal opinion on Leopold is that it's the 3rd best keyboard brand, only surpassed by Filco and any sort of Korean custom.

Shine 3 is alright, but I don't get all the hype behind it.

Personally, I'd say try and get a Filco, but if you can't, grab the Leopold.
V2's with clears are actually back in stock as of Monday, I believe it's CODE keyboards that will be w/o clears indefinitely.


We won't have any more Clear switches for approximately 12-14 months. This applies to both CODE and V2 keyboards.
Well, I'm confused then because I was just able to customize a V2 104 with clear switches, I thought they said they had a reserved batch of them for custom v2 orders..

Not sure either. did you actually check out? perhaps they haven't updated the website yet.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:14:36
Not yet, but the selection for Clears was not grayed out unlike the barebones versions so I assumed they were available. I'll let you know when I pay for the order, still tinkering with the designer.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Thu, 26 September 2013, 00:41:08
I have actually done the exact same thing as what you are doing.

I have a Filco TKL with Browns at home.  I replaced the keycaps with PBTs and that keyboard is absolutely awesome.  I love it. 

I originally bought a Cooler Master Quickfire TKL with Blues for work because it was on super sale, but the blue switches just don't work for me.  A co-worker loves that keyboard, so he is currently using it.  I replaced my work keyboard with a Filco 104 White Ninja with Red switches.  Coming from Brown switches, I am still getting used to the Reds.  It is at least a comfortable transition though.  I still think that Browns are my personal favourite switch, but I am also very happy with my Reds.  The main reason I changed my work keyboard was because the transition from the browns at home to the blues at work drove me nuts. 

The browns definitely make more noise than the reds do.  If you are concerned with how loud the keyboard is at work, you may want to think about a linear switch.  One other thing to consider for reducing the noise is to add an o-ring mod.  I have o-ring mods on all of my keyboards and I think it makes a huge difference when it comes to typing feel and noise.

I stand by my decision to buy a TKL for home because I wanted to keep the keyboard smaller.  I chose to get a 104 for work because I am a developer and typing IPs and netmasks on a TKL all the time can get annoying.  I have the space at work, so its not a problem...

I am very happy with my Filco keyboards and I would recommend this brand to anyone.

Not sure if that is helpful at all, but I figured my experience was relevant...

Good luck and enjoy your new keyboard.  :)

My first keyboard is Filco MJ2 TKL on Browns and is upgraded with o-rings :)
My colleagues are not against this keyboard so I don't have to choose linear switches =))
I was thinking about another one Filco but I'm not ready to spend 200 $ again =( So I was hoping to find another option (but the same built quality)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Turkishrambo on Thu, 26 September 2013, 00:46:01
Leopold FC700R has cherry stabs and has PBT  caps
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: terran5992 on Thu, 26 September 2013, 04:50:06
Thopre Realforce
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Thu, 26 September 2013, 04:54:40
Leopold FC700R has cherry stabs and has PBT  caps

I couldn't find where to buy...

Thopre Realforce

Topre is too expensive for me...
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: terran5992 on Thu, 26 September 2013, 04:56:17
Then save up for it :P

Its totally almost worth it
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:45:44
Then save up for it :P

Its totally almost worth it
Fixed  :thumb:
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:47:34
Leopold.  They make a good product IMHO.  Also Realforce.  Pretty much anything from EK
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: terran5992 on Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:50:50
Leopold has some unstandard keys
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: GeorgeStorm on Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:52:01
If you don't want to spend Filco money, then I'd look at Ducky boards, I like them, don't have any memories of them being poor quality (only got the new mini as a ducky board at the moment).

If you want a pretty decent but cheap board then a Quickfire Rapid isn't a bad idea in my opinion, it's what I did for my work keyboard (what i'm currently typing on :D)
Good solid feel, I'm using blacks which I quite like, styling may not be to your taste, but keycaps can solve that (or you just don't care that much since it's just for work like me :D)
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: swill on Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:58:43
My first keyboard is Filco MJ2 TKL on Browns and is upgraded with o-rings :)
My colleagues are not against this keyboard so I don't have to choose linear switches =))
I was thinking about another one Filco but I'm not ready to spend 200 $ again =( So I was hoping to find another option (but the same built quality)

I just bought my new Filco on NCIX for $100.  They have pretty good deals now and then, so it is worth watching.  It was $45 off.

I agree that the Filcos are a bit expensive, but I think they are worth the money.  Especially if you can get them on sale.
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: Phillip_J_Fry on Thu, 26 September 2013, 12:11:04
My first keyboard is Filco MJ2 TKL on Browns and is upgraded with o-rings :)
My colleagues are not against this keyboard so I don't have to choose linear switches =))
I was thinking about another one Filco but I'm not ready to spend 200 $ again =( So I was hoping to find another option (but the same built quality)

I just bought my new Filco on NCIX for $100.  They have pretty good deals now and then, so it is worth watching.  It was $45 off.

I agree that the Filcos are a bit expensive, but I think they are worth the money.  Especially if you can get them on sale.

I'm not sure if my friend will brind keyboard from USA =((
So maybe it will be to expensive for me to order from Canada to Belarus...
Also I don't have paypal and paypal doesn't work with banks of Belarus :(
Title: Re: Second keyboard?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 26 September 2013, 13:20:55
I find these thread titles amusing, because this is just not the way that I think and work.

When I started getting interested in keyboards, I bought, found, or asked for many cheap, broken, and/or abandoned keyboards. I tested and used any of them that worked, for at least a few minutes (it was a long time before I learned that hot-plugging a PS/2 keyboard or mouse is dangerous - I had done it dozens, if not hundreds of times with no problem - I suppose I was just lucky) and evaluated what I liked and did not like about each.

Many (most) were given back, given away, dumped, or went back to Goodwill, some were sold on ebay, and some were kept.

The ones that interested me (for whatever reasons) were usually disassembled, cleaned, adjusted, and reassembled. That is how I learned about them - hands on. And yes, I screwed up and wrecked several along the way.

So, for me, asking me to list "criteria" in advance is strange. The way I know whether I want to keep a keyboard for daily use, or for my collection, is by using it in real life.