IBM Model M (silver label) for $800 - great find?

[1391406]

Test model or not, I can't justify paying $800 for this.

[bazemk1979]

I wonder what he is smoking for lunch?

[jwaz]

No ISO keyboard could be worth that much

[kmiller8]

This one?

1. My own preproduction prototype Model M also has some PN etched on the bottom of the PCB and a different one written on a manually applied skewed sticker on the top side. And my prototype was built in 199-something in Greenock and has a warranty sticker from some retailer
2. Product numbers are just that - identificators of production units.
3. Soldered down, permanently programmed microcontroller doesn't exactly smell like a dev-board to me.
4. A keyboard can't be older than any of its parts, in particular the 1986 buckling spring assembly.
5. Did IBM even do any Model M R&D in Greenock?
6. Your nerd-penis officially grows by 2" for this square clock, but I'm afraid that's all.

It doesn't have to be a dev ver, square clock early test field model maybe, like an early alpha :O? Is there a official IBM PN register?
How did they it end up with this type of clock if only it was avaliable for R&D and test depts? has it appeared in model F? its at least certainly rare, in fact I haven't seen one ever appart from the model of the OP and mine. It shouldn't be there.
The only part surely to have been made in the UK is the steel plate, the PCB could've sent from abroad.
The 1986 steel plate could've been swaped afterwards for repairs.

Look, the OP's keyboard is a prototype version of the M Industrial and we are 100% positive of this fact. IBM never used surgical tape or UV-EPROMs in production M's, and Ferrari is a known M code name.

That said, what you need to understand is how rapid prototyping worked in the 1980's and how IBM manufacturing worked. We've now found a total of three examples with the square crystal, with closely spaced serial numbers - but the other two had it adapted to the production controller layout.
When you did rapid prototyping in the 80's, it was not rapid. Not unless you hacked up a production part. Otherwise, you had to make a LOT of parts that could be used for prototype and production. IBM tended to favor the 'build a whole bunch' approach generally. It would not surprise me to see similar PCBs in production parts - but they will always an entirely different uC and certain other identifying marks. Like the FRUs and part numbers. The alternative was modifying a production part.
They'd also use a lot of parts right off the line, including QC rejects, intended-for-new, or whatever was laying around on the shelf. If they had a part stamped 1986 in a prototype, that wasn't indicative of anything. Could be the part was a mis-stamp, could be a 1986 part, could be they tossed one plate and grabbed another off the line. Or disassembled another.
Literally these things were largely built out of whatever was laying around or available on short notice.

Mandolin, your keyboard is a production part. Period. The back label went missing or wasn't applied - it happens - but it's still a production part. Period. Not a prototype, not all that interesting aside from the sloppiness on the controller. That's not 'manual application' that's 'the machine wasn't calibrated correctly.' IBM would not reject for crappy silk screening and it is also not skewed - C3 always looks like that. In fact, I can tell you exactly what model and why the sticker's missing.
It's a 1988-1989 Model M, International Market, manufactured in the United Kingdom. All stickers for these keyboards fall off as they're low quality and frequently applied incorrectly. (They were applied so that they were half in the recess and half out.) There was also no lamination applied. The adhesive ages and they fall off or just get worn off.
Controllers have compound part numbers. It's a 1392993-1351526. An uncommon controller to find I will grant you, but it is also a production part. Foreign language, though I couldn't tell you which off the top of my head. All of the foreign controllers have unique part numbers because of the IBM way. Since the EEPROM load is different they require a different uC line be used, which means they are given a distinct PN. This is true for almost all of the non-US non-ANSI Model M's.
As to the rest of it? Welcome to standard practice at the IBM UK/Ireland plant. The PN stamp isn't hand applied, just halfassed. The markings aren't prototyping - those are the QC pass marks. (In fact, all IBM UK plant M's have pen or marker initials on the label for QC pass.) It's a unique thing to the UK facility, but that's how they built every last one of them. Gods only know why. There's also all kinds of crazy part shenanigans and substitutions, half the chassis are missing the blue date stamp on the lower half (if not more), and so on.

[taaater]

Test model or not, I can't justify paying $800 for this.

Show Image

The most you should pay - even for a new, unopened Model M - is around $150.

[Mandolin]

More

This one?

1. My own preproduction prototype Model M also has some PN etched on the bottom of the PCB and a different one written on a manually applied skewed sticker on the top side. And my prototype was built in 199-something in Greenock and has a warranty sticker from some retailer
2. Product numbers are just that - identificators of production units.
3. Soldered down, permanently programmed microcontroller doesn't exactly smell like a dev-board to me.
4. A keyboard can't be older than any of its parts, in particular the 1986 buckling spring assembly.
5. Did IBM even do any Model M R&D in Greenock?
6. Your nerd-penis officially grows by 2" for this square clock, but I'm afraid that's all.

It doesn't have to be a dev ver, square clock early test field model maybe, like an early alpha :O? Is there a official IBM PN register?
How did they it end up with this type of clock if only it was avaliable for R&D and test depts? has it appeared in model F? its at least certainly rare, in fact I haven't seen one ever appart from the model of the OP and mine. It shouldn't be there.
The only part surely to have been made in the UK is the steel plate, the PCB could've sent from abroad.
The 1986 steel plate could've been swaped afterwards for repairs.

That said, what you need to understand is how rapid prototyping worked in the 1980's and how IBM manufacturing worked. We've now found a total of three examples with the square crystal, with closely spaced serial numbers - but the other two had it adapted to the production controller layout.

600 USD directly, outside ebay.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

[tjcaustin]

This one?

1. My own preproduction prototype Model M also has some PN etched on the bottom of the PCB and a different one written on a manually applied skewed sticker on the top side. And my prototype was built in 199-something in Greenock and has a warranty sticker from some retailer
2. Product numbers are just that - identificators of production units.
3. Soldered down, permanently programmed microcontroller doesn't exactly smell like a dev-board to me.
4. A keyboard can't be older than any of its parts, in particular the 1986 buckling spring assembly.
5. Did IBM even do any Model M R&D in Greenock?
6. Your nerd-penis officially grows by 2" for this square clock, but I'm afraid that's all.

It doesn't have to be a dev ver, square clock early test field model maybe, like an early alpha :O? Is there a official IBM PN register?
How did they it end up with this type of clock if only it was avaliable for R&D and test depts? has it appeared in model F? its at least certainly rare, in fact I haven't seen one ever appart from the model of the OP and mine. It shouldn't be there.
The only part surely to have been made in the UK is the steel plate, the PCB could've sent from abroad.
The 1986 steel plate could've been swaped afterwards for repairs.

That said, what you need to understand is how rapid prototyping worked in the 1980's and how IBM manufacturing worked. We've now found a total of three examples with the square crystal, with closely spaced serial numbers - but the other two had it adapted to the production controller layout.

Are you the same spamdolin that thinks that a bag of blue alps are worth $280?

[1391406]

Test model or not, I can't justify paying $800 for this.

Show Image

The most you should pay - even for a new, unopened Model M - is around $150.

I'd pay around $250 (maybe more) for an NIB Model F AT if I ever found one, but I can't justify paying $800 for a silver label M, prototype or not.

[E TwentyNine]

Was a bigger discussion on it here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39985.0

I think this eBay listing is asserting some facts not in evidence...

[metafour]

From the aforementioned link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property of the good, nor by the amount of labor required to produce the good, but instead value is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of their desired ends

I guess someone's desired end is to take people's money. And lots of it.

[Mandolin]

From the aforementioned link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property of the good, nor by the amount of labor required to produce the good, but instead value is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of their desired ends

I guess someone's desired end is to take people's money. And lots of it.

Appart that I bought it for way over the market price as it was rare, as a voluntary process agreed by both parts, money is given in exchange for an item. Taking people's money is another thing, people come with their money asking.
Datahands, red original cherry escape keys, brobot caps, doesn't/didn't cost to make what they're sold for, but they represent some value that goes to a according market price, that fluctuates.

I know most of you couldn't pay it, its okay and I wouldn't recommend it to someone who wants some nice IBM keyboard to type on, this is for a collector that values the characteristics described in the link. I prefer to keep it than selling it for what's it ain't worth in my opinion.

If you'd see in detail the ebay link, you'd get its for a good cause.

[metafour]

Thread full of win right here too: http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ibm-model-m-silver-label-138671-early-production-model-t5839.html

[Mandolin]

Thread full of win right here too: http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ibm-model-m-silver-label-138671-early-production-model-t5839.html

[dorkvader]

My 1390120 has a square crystal.
http://i.imm.io/11OCn.jpeg

I will upload a picture of the controller if anyone is interested. Apart from the crystal, it is very similar (if not identical) to other early 1390120 and 1390131 controllers (including the date code on the smaller (shift register?) IC's)

Clickeykeyboards also has documented a square crystal controller, though his has a slightly different main IC.
http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m-gallery/1985-ibm-model-m-1390120/

can anyone tell if webwit's 1985 industrial M has a square crystal? I don't have my controller for refrence, but here's a shot of the back of his:
http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_industrial/1388032-8.jpg

Now, I suspect most "plant FL2" M's from before mine will have square crystals, though there isn't enough information to say when that plant changed over. I also suspect M's from otehr plans have them, but I have no ideo when they might have changed over.

But we do have documented evidence of the following square crystal M's

This
Mine
etwentynine's excellent "prototype" M
clickeykeyboards (he probably has several, but I have only seen pictures of one. Looking at the older 1390120 and 1390131 listings he has, he might have reused some internal photos in the listings.

I will look at my "oldest" 6110668 and take good pictures of the controller if anyone wants to compare to their later 6110668 and 611034* F controllers. Perhaps there are changes in those, too!

[tjcaustin]

But that's only four, so clearly it's still worth $800

[Mandolin]

My 1390120 has a square crystal.
http://i.imm.io/11OCn.jpeg

I will upload a picture of the controller if anyone is interested. Apart from the crystal, it is very similar (if not identical) to other early 1390120 and 1390131 controllers (including the date code on the smaller (shift register?) IC's)

Clickeykeyboards also has documented a square crystal controller, though his has a slightly different main IC.
http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m-gallery/1985-ibm-model-m-1390120/

can anyone tell if webwit's 1985 industrial M has a square crystal? I don't have my controller for refrence, but here's a shot of the back of his:
http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_industrial/1388032-8.jpg

Now, I suspect most "plant FL2" M's from before mine will have square crystals, though there isn't enough information to say when that plant changed over. I also suspect M's from otehr plans have them, but I have no ideo when they might have changed over.

But we do have documented evidence of the following square crystal M's

This
Mine
etwentynine's excellent "prototype" M
clickeykeyboards (he probably has several, but I have only seen pictures of one. Looking at the older 1390120 and 1390131 listings he has, he might have reused some internal photos in the listings.

I will look at my "oldest" 6110668 and take good pictures of the controller if anyone wants to compare to their later 6110668 and 611034* F controllers. Perhaps there are changes in those, too!

Congrats!!! the 4th is still nice!

[Mandolin]

[Retrete]

Paga la coca 1er aviso.