oh ****. matias custom quiet switches would be wicked dope on a mini board. we would have to cannibalize matias boards though. i doubt they sell the switches.
I've just ordered some GH60 boards, but I'd love to build up an Alps version. I'm in. ;DYeah, but would enough people be interested in keycaps? If not, one set would be really expensive...
I've just ordered some GH60 boards, but I'd love to build up an Alps version. I'm in. ;DYeah, but would enough people be interested in keycaps? If not, one set would be really expensive...
If we did a complete set of ANSI doubleshots, people could order them for their Filco Zeros, Ducky 1087XM, etc.
I don't know if there'd be enough demand for 50 sets...
DSA + ALPS... mmmh something is moving here below
DSA + ALPS... mmmh something is moving here below
You ought not to turn me on at work like that.
DSA + ALPS + PBT!
Continued from: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg828166#msg828166Assuming that someone has the ALPs switches footprint I can do it. I'll have to change the cherry switches by alps switches, just that, right?
Silent Matias Alps board would be pretty nice.
PCB layout should be easy enough to change once the GH60 PCB have been finalized (if Komar isn't interested in making the changes in layout, he could send someone the source files).
Keycaps should be available in the same sizes as Cherries, but don't know about doubleshots. Single shot ABS plastic ones in "stanard" layout should be dead easy to get.
Continued from: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg828166#msg828166Assuming that someone has the ALPs switches footprint I can do it. I'll have to change the cherry switches by alps switches, just that, right?
Silent Matias Alps board would be pretty nice.
PCB layout should be easy enough to change once the GH60 PCB have been finalized (if Komar isn't interested in making the changes in layout, he could send someone the source files).
Keycaps should be available in the same sizes as Cherries, but don't know about doubleshots. Single shot ABS plastic ones in "stanard" layout should be dead easy to get.
Are you offering to make an alps PCB?Yup, I'm still waiting for the bluetooth parts to get back to the wireless prototype - then I do have some free time ...
Wait just a doggone minute. Are we really talking about a fully programmable, customizable layout, Alps switch (Matias), Bluetooth/USB 60% keyboard, with custom DSA profile doubleshot PBT keycaps?I think so, lucky you I do only have alps switches (blue, black, yellow, fakes and aliens).
Edit: it's no wonder Making Stuff Together is my favorite forum here.Mine too.
Now I think I'm starting to feel something move down there, also, Matt3o...It's a good feeling?
You may have to use a testing version of KiCAD to open the gerbers. I think that's what komar used to create them.Yes, I know, thanks.
...and soylent green IS people!
google chrome advised me to stop downloading because it's not safe. wtf?I did got it from google - seems to be someone's drop box
this might be usefulAwesome!
(Attachment Link)
shouldn't be a big problem to change the switches
one thing to note is that the plate is 1/1.2mm (should be 1.5mm instead for MX I believe)
I'm probably asking too much but do you think it's possible to add this to the GH60 group buy before they start manufacturing?
I'm probably asking too much but do you think it's possible to add this to the GH60 group buy before they start manufacturing?Assuming that I do succeed you can order it in the https://www.batchpcb.com/ site - they are the cheapest pcb service I know ...
So you upload your PCB design and they build it?Yes, they will send the PCB to you - without any components soldered on it.
we could even run a mini group buy (like 10/20 units). you might get this prior of the official one :)
the components from mouser I'd say.
BatchPCB is only cheaper for small PCB sizes. At the size of a 60% board, you can get 5 PCBs made by a place like pcbwing.com for not much more than BatchPCB charges for one.Hmm, I've never sent one board of this size to batchpcb. My bigger board was 5 x 15 ...
I disagree. We want variety, and I think the ALPS fan club is tired of being left out of the fun. :D Either way, the ALPS one isn't going to be ready for some time, so it doesn't hurt to at least get some preparation for it done.Sorry, I do disagree too.
umm, i don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't we get the MX version of the board done and out the door before we try to make another variant mmk? :)
in that case, the first thing you'll want to do is get a datasheet for and source the stabilizers that matias is using in his new boards. those seem to be the best alps stabs. while he's gotten us some really nice new switches, we still have to solve the stabilizer problem for diy alps boards.Can't we use bended wire with fixation clips like they did into the old keyboards? The major problem I see in this approach is that it requires a plate to make the holes to the fixation clips ...
in that case, the first thing you'll want to do is get a datasheet for and source the stabilizers that matias is using in his new boards. those seem to be the best alps stabs. while he's gotten us some really nice new switches, we still have to solve the stabilizer problem for diy alps boards.Can't we use bended wire with fixation clips like they did into the old keyboards? The major problem I see in this approach is that it requires a plate to make the holes to the fixation clips ...Show Image(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/94589680/20130323-stabilizerbar.png)Show Image(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/94589680/20130323-stabilizerSpring.JPG)
Stabilizer Spring (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/cherry-mx-stabilizer-spring-for-keycaps.html), easy to be done at home with one wire benderShow Image(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/94589680/20130323-stabilizerClip.JPG)
2x WASD Stabilizer Clip (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1/cherry-mx-plate-mounted-stabilizer-clips-2pcs.html), can be done at home with bended wire too
we could, for example, have SP make us caps with center alps mount but cherry stabilizer mounts and then the entirety of a costar style stabilizer...
although I don't understand this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88005189@N05/8052667818/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88005189@N05/8052662455/in/photostream/
I dunno about the Matias switch but as far as I know all alps are plate mounted. So plates will be required. Besides the plate is quite easy to make.At here, south america, it is expensive - the metal is cheap, we do have lots and lots of minerals but the service price make it uncompetitive.
We could make the GH60 Plate/PCB accept a Dell 101W layout. They're relatively easy to acquire for pretty cheap. You can harvest the stabs and key caps which is a standard 1.25 mod ANSI layout.Can be one dell 102w? I do have one at hand.
At here, south america, it is expensive - the metal is cheap, we do have lots and lots of minerals but the service price make it uncompetitive.
I saw at the GH60 GB a plate for 16 bucks, I think that jdcarpe is organizing the GB. We can ask him about where he is cutting his plate (BTW: it's aluminum or stainless steel?)
WFD is getting the plates made somewhere, I'm not sure where. They are stainless steel. :)Awesome!!!
They are 16-gauge, or 0.0625" thick.Goooosh, geeeeeeeeee
i assert that any board designed from scratch have new stock availability of everything in the BOM. no harvesting to build an alps-gh60. i'd rather pay for the tooling to get center-alps/side MX mount caps made by SP than give out a BOM that requires buying a dell at101w and stripping it down to bare board before constructing :P
i assert that any board designed from scratch have new stock availability of everything in the BOM. no harvesting to build an alps-gh60. i'd rather pay for the tooling to get center-alps/side MX mount caps made by SP than give out a BOM that requires buying a dell at101w and stripping it down to bare board before constructing :PI'm not sure but I heard somewhere here that the Mathias switches are hole compatible.
How much interest do you think GH60Alps have? If it is nearing 50, I can just have them made when I have stuff made for my groupbuy. We should be able to get Matias style stabilizers and keycaps too.personally, i'm not crazy about the XM switches anyway (although alaricljs says that swapping the XM GREEN springs into the matias clears feels particularly good; he's weird)
*friend recommend not using XM switches with these caps. Not sure if I can share the exact reason, but let's just say XM is slightly out of spec and may break keycap stems.
How much interest do you think GH60Alps have? If it is nearing 50, I can just have them made when I have stuff made for my groupbuy. We should be able to get Matias style stabilizers and keycaps too.We need to run one interest check to see it.
*friend recommend not using XM switches with these caps. Not sure if I can share the exact reason, but let's just say XM is slightly out of spec and may break keycap stems.Sorry, XM switches?? I'm kinda new in the block ...
Hey man... Matias' springs are too stiff :PMUST RESIST
Any chance of making something that is compatible with Monterey blue Alps-alike switches? A proper modern layout, plate-mounted keyboard with those babies would be amazing.
I have one desoldered. pinout seems completely different to me. can take pictures if needed.Please, just to be sure, pictures are always good.
I have one desoldered. pinout seems completely different to me. can take pictures if needed.Please, just to be sure, pictures are always good.
I think I do have a hundred at here, I got them from one old Chicony 5181 - someone said it has monterey's switches. To be honesty I don't recognize these switches ...
If you check here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41117.0), you might be able to ID your mystery switches. My try bag had monterey blues in it and I included pictures.Damm, by your pictures it seems to be "Fake Monterey MX".
If you check here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41117.0), you might be able to ID your mystery switches. My try bag had monterey blues in it and I included pictures.Damm, by your pictures it seems to be "Fake Monterey MX".
BTW thanks by the link! Awesome reference!
err, please, could you guys summarize what we are waiting for?There are a few minor roadblocks. Since plate is a requirement with Alps, we need to have plates made. However, not everyone will agree on the layout, so it may be expensive.
I'm the new guy in the block so I'm kinda on my toes yet ...
:)
SP replied to my email.BAM we're in business folks
They already have tooling for all keys up to 1.75u. We would need to buy the stem-tooling for all stabilized keys, spacebars included. This is true for both DSA and DCS families and both ABS and PBT.
Mounting points for the stabilizers could have standard MX stems, so you would end up with 1 centered ALPS stem for the switch and 2 side stems for the stabilizers. This solution should be less expensive than a full alps stemmed version.
1.5 ANSI should be used.Where?
the gh60 generally contains support for 1.5x layouts. the footprints of MX1A switches and alps/fukkas are pretty similar, so i doubt this support will go away when agodinhost (or whoever volunteers) modifies the pcb for alps compatibility.I think you are right - there is a bunch of switches overplaced in the GH60 board to support different layouts. If this 1.5x layout is already supported in the current GH60 board it will continue to be supported after I do re-route the board.
what about using switches instead of stabilizers for certain keys?ironically, the point of stabilizers is to have a high amount of wobble in one axis, but only moderate resistance and much less wobble on the other axis. that way, when you press on the stab, the force is distributed across the entire cap.
I was wondering about this idea too ...what about using switches instead of stabilizers for certain keys?ironically, the point of stabilizers is to have a high amount of wobble in one axis, but only moderate resistance and much less wobble on the other axis. that way, when you press on the stab, the force is distributed across the entire cap.
switches are built to have minimal wobble in both axes and some relatively high design amount of resistance (insert joke about alps wobble here). if you used switches instead of stabs, a side-press on a key would just meet with lots of resistance and not a lot of force distribution. basically, you'd be trying to actuate the side-switch in a situation where the other switches on the key were all working against you. you can try this yourself with a bunch of MX switches and a spacebar. it feels pretty bad man.
If we would let SP make the keycaps, the biggest problem would be what color would keycaps be? CCnG? Dolch? Beige?
The switches are mounted at 0.75" which is 19.05mm, from center-to-center. That is 1U.Then I assume that the distance is already counted in this 19.05mm, is it right?
Are you asking because of the plate or PCB?Both, it's more a checking - the position of the switches are going to be the same ...
The switches are mounted at 0.75" which is 19.05mm, from center-to-center. That is 1U.Is the GH60 designed with 19.05mm or 19mm keyspacing?
lol I agree the GH60 PCB is like swiss cheese with so many holes. But that's what you get when you want to include as many layouts as possible. What position is it that's overlapping exactly? I'm guessing near the bottom right?Yup, swiss cheese.
Those are indeed holes for PCB mount cherry stabs. Not much point in them since it'll have to be a plate mounted board.Awesome.
I am really looking forward to this board. I've collected a lot of Alps sets that would be perfect for the compact layout, now all I need is the boards! And cases, and plates, and cables, minor details. :))I've there.
Any update on this?Just waiting some answer about the ground plane but the PCB is good to go as it is right now ...
I might be interested in this groupbuy, although I have 3 initial questions and I apologize if they are somewhat redundant:
1) Will it be the exact same size as the poker/pure/gh60 pcb?
2) Will we be using the same controller and software for programming our personal layouts as the regular GH60 project?
3) Does the PCB support an ansi winkeyless layout (with 7xSpace)? (Also, on a side note, I'd be using a Big Enter Key because it would look awesome on a 60% keyboard)
Thanks for the response.I might be interested in this groupbuy, although I have 3 initial questions and I apologize if they are somewhat redundant:
1) Will it be the exact same size as the poker/pure/gh60 pcb?
2) Will we be using the same controller and software for programming our personal layouts as the regular GH60 project?
3) Does the PCB support an ansi winkeyless layout (with 7xSpace)? (Also, on a side note, I'd be using a Big Enter Key because it would look awesome on a 60% keyboard)
1) yes
2) yes
3) the pcb should be a replica of GH60 but with ALPS
I don't know about he big enter.. If I remember the big enter had some weird stabilizer locations not present in any of the GH60 layouts.Here's a picture of my current keyboard with the big enter key http://i.imgur.com/Lg5os1J.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Lg5os1J.jpg)
I'm definitely in for this. My first mech was a an AT101W and I fell in love with it.
Suggestion: If you're sourcing Matias switches, you should offer the choice between Quiet and Clicky. I know I'd love a clicky alps 60% board.
So the ground plane is unnecessary right? And the plate is done, correct? Where do we go from here?yes, it's ready to go!
We would need to test out the PCB first before going into mass production though.And it would be wise - no one revised my design yet.
I will take the burden of being an alpha tester if needed :D (seriously)That would be awesome!
I am serious, but my move may hamper efforts.We would need to test out the PCB first before going into mass production though.And it would be wise - no one revised my design yet.I will take the burden of being an alpha tester if needed :D (seriously)That would be awesome!
TLDR:Yes, that's it.
Plate and PCB is done. Ready for sample production and testing. Still undecided on stabilizers. I think thats it.
Just out of curiosity, how hard would it be to add a function row on the top of the GH60 PCB layout?I support this idea. If function row is added, then we would really have an unique board.
Any ideas on keycap colours? Also how do clicky matias switches feel? Like, in comparison with cherry blues switches?
Yeah, I know about Matias making keycaps. I tought that clicky matias switches and blue mx switches would be good comparison since they're botth clicky. Also can you make alps switches lighter like mx switches? Are there any springs in alps switches?Any ideas on keycap colours? Also how do clicky matias switches feel? Like, in comparison with cherry blues switches?
Not sure on colors for the caps yet. Also, I forgot to mention this before, but Matias is looking to have sets made.
Clicky Matias switches feel like Grey Alps switches. They have a higher actuation point and are a bit heavier than White Alps. I won't compare them to MX Blues because they don't feel the same. They feel like Alps switches.
also im considering building my own custom alps board, where would i go to get a pcb/plate ordered/designed????Here!