Author Topic: [IC] Evolv | A four year journey complete  (Read 397747 times)

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Offline brizzzle

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #350 on: Thu, 09 April 2020, 19:07:03 »
The first official photo is live as a teaser!

Show Image


More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p

whoa! first proto looks nice, eager to read your full writeup.

Offline fakedSkill

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #351 on: Thu, 09 April 2020, 19:15:33 »
The first official photo is live as a teaser!

Show Image


More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p

Looks sick! gief plx

Offline OmniSzron

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #352 on: Fri, 10 April 2020, 04:45:36 »
Yeah, DLMS (metal printing) is a fundamentally different process to what you think of when you think of plastic printing (FDM). In DMLS, aluminum powder is cured at high resolution by a laser, instead of being deposited by a print head.
Well, Today I Learned. Pretty cool stuff. So what you're saying metal 3D printing is more like Pringles are to normal chips. You create the shape out of powdered metal.
Fox Lab Key 65 split space

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #353 on: Fri, 10 April 2020, 10:54:05 »
Yeah, DLMS (metal printing) is a fundamentally different process to what you think of when you think of plastic printing (FDM). In DMLS, aluminum powder is cured at high resolution by a laser, instead of being deposited by a print head.
Well, Today I Learned. Pretty cool stuff. So what you're saying metal 3D printing is more like Pringles are to normal chips. You create the shape out of powdered metal.

I had no clue that's how Pringles are made, but that's exactly right.

Offline Kaptain Mike

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #354 on: Sat, 11 April 2020, 12:46:48 »
Wow that pic is a hell of a teaser!!! Good job with everything so far. I am looking forward to your write up and of course more pictures!! Oh one question, do we know the final color choices? Edit: I see the color poll outcome was black and gold. Is this final? Black and raw was my preferred choice. Gold is cool and all but we all know everybody likes raw ;)
 
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 April 2020, 13:37:31 by Kaptain HaiRamen »

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #355 on: Sat, 11 April 2020, 17:28:34 »
Wow that pic is a hell of a teaser!!! Good job with everything so far. I am looking forward to your write up and of course more pictures!! Oh one question, do we know the final color choices? Edit: I see the color poll outcome was black and gold. Is this final? Black and raw was my preferred choice. Gold is cool and all but we all know everybody likes raw ;)

 Black & Gold won the poll, that's why I ordered it as the proto. Final color choices have not been determined yet.

Offline PrinceCornNM

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #356 on: Mon, 13 April 2020, 12:36:27 »
I can't wait to see more pictures of this keyboard. I like the way the texture on the support structure looks in the prototype.

Offline L8T

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #357 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 14:22:25 »
This is such a tease, just give us the proto pics already :( You can always add the write up later :P

Offline goaliedavid

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #358 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 14:30:36 »
I might have read over it, but was there an estimated GB date announced yet for this? Or is there an idea of when it might start now that there is a proto?

Offline h33t

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #359 on: Tue, 21 April 2020, 16:46:54 »
Black and Gold! Any ideas roughly how much this might go for?

Offline JustinUtherdude

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #360 on: Tue, 21 April 2020, 17:56:53 »
I'm excited. I think I'm definitely in for one, maybe even two if Black + Copper with a copper rotary joystick is an added as an option. On a different note, would this build style be possible without the metal-printed angled riser underneath, with 0* angle on the keyboard. I really like the pcb/keyboard layout and would love something similar with flip out feet for travel.

Offline ppnp253

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #361 on: Tue, 21 April 2020, 18:33:19 »
Black and Gold! Any ideas roughly how much this might go for?

I believe OP said it's gonna run close to $1000

I'm excited. I think I'm definitely in for one, maybe even two if Black + Copper with a copper rotary joystick is an added as an option. On a different note, would this build style be possible without the metal-printed angled riser underneath, with 0* angle on the keyboard. I really like the pcb/keyboard layout and would love something similar with flip out feet for travel.

AFAIK, because of the price point and quality control, they are gonna be raffled off so I doubt you will be able to get two.

Offline Pluto19

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #362 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 00:09:14 »
Have we run this over with a truck yet?

Offline L8T

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #363 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 00:21:06 »
Have we run this over with a truck yet?

Not yet but im just as hyped about it! Id love to see how 3d printed alu compares to the computer analysis!

Offline xperii

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #364 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 10:50:22 »
Watching this. In 100%!

Offline roznalos

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #365 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 15:05:31 »
Wow! Definitely interested on this one! Looking forward to getting more information about the board

Offline KaosJ

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #366 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 16:56:35 »
Not sure if i will spend all the money that this will cost, but surely for me this is one of the most appealing/wanted keeb of the last year.  I don't agree with the plate, but the bottom is amazing and soo unique and sexy... 

Anyway, about the bottom 3d AlSi10Mg part, will it be polished a bit? 




Offline jimmyxtlee

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #367 on: Mon, 27 April 2020, 12:22:33 »
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!



Offline Jaltr

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #368 on: Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:01:15 »
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!
This GB will be raffled and would cost a lot more than the 7v.

Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk


Offline roznalos

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #369 on: Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:44:18 »
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!
This GB will be raffled and would cost a lot more than the 7v.

Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk



What do you mean raffled?

Offline MajorKoos

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #370 on: Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:49:28 »
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!
This GB will be raffled and would cost a lot more than the 7v.

Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk



What do you mean raffled?

Everyone who's interested puts their name in a hat (figuratively speaking) and the "winners" get sent an invoice.
Many months later their keyboards arrive in the mail.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:51:35 by MajorKoos »

Offline heartbreak

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #371 on: Tue, 28 April 2020, 05:10:44 »
I will definitely watch this very closely! (hopefully it won't be a raffle. RNG gods doesn't like me that much)

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #372 on: Tue, 28 April 2020, 06:43:16 »
I will definitely watch this very closely! (hopefully it won't be a raffle. RNG gods doesn't like me that much)

It's pretty much been confirmed by the runner on several occasions that it's going to be a raffle, so unless something major changes, I wouldn't get my hopes up for a FCFS.

Offline alper_maestro

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #373 on: Tue, 28 April 2020, 06:57:16 »
I will definitely watch this very closely! (hopefully it won't be a raffle. RNG gods doesn't like me that much)

No GB, it's a raffle

Offline Glueeater

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #374 on: Wed, 29 April 2020, 14:10:49 »
Very cool to see generative design on here!

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv - 75% Keyboard | First Prototype Photo
« Reply #375 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 01:44:03 »
Hello all and welcome to the prototype writeup,



First off, I would like to apologize for the delay in posting this writeup. When I received the prototype three weeks ago, I quickly assembled the board and started playing around with it, excited to collect all of my thoughts and to share them with you. However, as I began writing about the issues with my prototype, I couldn't help but open Fusion to try to fix them. As one weekend turned into one week, I grew self-conscious about making this post without proposing the very fixes I was working on. One week turned into two as I took my midterms and had to turn my attention away from the Evolv and onto school. This break was a blessing in disguise: upon returning to the board model, I realized the fixes I was making were hacks to get around fundamental design issues of the board, so I ripped off the band-aid and redesigned the entire thing from the ground up. However, before I talk about the redesign, I must share my thoughts about the original prototype with all of you.



Let's start with the big one: the bottom of the board. I love it; I couldn't have been happier with how it came out; nevertheless, there is room for improvement. First is the side angle of the board, as seen in this photo:



Despite being the visual focal point of the board, a user of the Evolv cannot easily see the generative design of the bottom as the tendrils 'hide' underneath the top case of the keyboard, almost defeating the purpose of the design.

Aesthetics aside, most of my qualms with the bottom came with the manufacturing process. Not only is metal 3d printing exceedingly expensive (as in, I don't think I reasonably could've made the <$1000 mark if I had gone for this manufacturing solution), but I was also quite disappointed with the quality of the print. The images below demonstrate what I mean:





As can be seen in the red circles in the second image, the inside of the printed part shows clear printing defects. Despite the coating (mostly) covering those issues on the outside (look at the bottom of the left slot to see an easily visible defect), a board at this price point should be perfect inside and out. Furthermore, while the manufacturing tolerances I designed around were sufficient for making the parts fit into each other, I was still extremely disappointed by them, with straight lines in CAD being wobbly messes in person. Finally, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but AlSi10Mg sounds odd, seemingly amplifying structure born sound when typing, making the board a pingy mess (more on this when I talk about the integrated plate). Overall, the direction of the bottom was perfect, but it needed some minor revisions to be near the standards I'm looking for in this project.

Next comes the integrated plate, and note, the plate was not generated for this revision of the prototype: it sucked. The big issue with integrated plates, as many of you know, is they are incapable of dissipating the structure born noise caused by pressing a switch. Check out my very scientific diagram below comparing noise propagation through a case with an integrated plate vs. one with a full isolation gasket:



Every time you bottom out a switch, you cause the plate to vibrate at a certain frequency. When you integrate a plate directly into a case, nothing prevents those vibrations from propagating through the rest of the case and turning your keyboard into a resonator. However, when a gasket material is added between the plate and the case, it acts as a vibration dampener, preventing the propagation of structure born noise. With the Evolv, this was a particular issue, as these vibrations cause the 3d printed part to resonate, turning it into a pingy nightmare.

Finally, I personally found the Evolv's outer bezels to be too thin, evoking the look of a Tofu instead of a premium board.



So, what am I doing to fix these issues?

1: The Issue: The generative bottom is not visible enough from the side. The Fix: A complete redesign of the bottom, pushing the tendrils right to the edge of the board.



2: The Issue: Cost and Quality of 3d printing the bottom. The Fix: Investing into molds for casting the base, lowering per unit production cost by a factor of 5.

3: The Issue: Structureborn noise propagation with an integrated plate. The Fix: A full isolation gasket inspired by boards like the J-01 and Kepler.




4: The Issue: Thin top bezels. The Fix: Thicker top bezels, which as a bonus, accommodate the new mounting solution.

5: The Issue: Lack of plate layout options. The Fix: Separate plate with fixed layout options for ISO and ANSI.

The Evolv has truly evolved, and I want to thank all of you for your patience as I've worked through this redesign. Main OP will be updated with the new board design shortly, and following that, I will open a new IC poll with some questions I have for you, the community.

- Nathan <3

Offline Rew23

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Prototype Writeup (Page 8 and underneath OP)
« Reply #376 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 02:14:16 »
What a wonderful, critical evaluation of something I am sure you had very high hopes for. I commend you for not being stubborn and sticking with your original plan and taking the time to revisit each problem area even if it meant completely revamping the design. This a truly unique board, even with the proposed changes. I am definitely keeping a close eye on this one.  Best of luck with the second round of prototyping.

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #377 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 03:54:44 »
OP has been updated! Please feel free to raise any questions or concerns you may have with the new design revision, also, render requests for Evolv v2 are open!

Offline dom

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #378 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 06:58:53 »
v2 is much better  ;D  maybe because I don't care about the bottom so much, the layout is the most important thing here (for me of course).
Beautiful, congrats for thinking smart and making those changes! RESPECT!  :thumb:

Offline Jaltr

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #379 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 07:01:02 »
Thank you being honest, not just to us, but to yourself as well! Love that you are critical on everything and want a perfect board.

Very nice write up and hope to see more updates!

Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk


Offline Solotov

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #380 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 07:53:34 »
Really great updates and changes. Now I'm interested. Do you have any more details on pcb and plate? Hope there is a half-plate option  ;)
Flex is love, flex is life.

Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #381 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:46:41 »
Interesting write-up! It was a thoughtful read and it looks like these changes are all for the better.

Regarding the bottom case now being produced via casting rather than 3d printing - do you think you will also consider running a larger group buy than initially discussed as a result of this change? This certainly seems like the right direction in terms of both accessibility and quality, and will pay off especially with a larger order. I'd like to get my hands on this board and I'm hoping it's not going to be as hard to get as it initially sounded.

EDIT: Also a follow-up question - will the bottom base possibly be available in new materials besides aluminum along with this process change? I'd imagine brass will be nice if you're still sticking to the color scheme.
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:52:46 by Nostril »

Offline switchnollie

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #382 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:48:17 »
Woah super interesting case, like Adidas 4D out here :cool:


Keyboards: HHKB Pro 1 & OTD 356CL Dark Greyhat Edition, baybee!

Offline OmniSzron

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #383 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:57:04 »


I'm ecstatic with the changes. This board instantly went from "maybe if I have the cash" status, to "I gotta get one". Additionally, now that the base will be cast, does that mean an increase of the GB limit? Or maybe even an unlimited GB? I mean you have to spread out the cost of the molds, right? Right? :D
Fox Lab Key 65 split space

Offline L8T

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #384 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:57:11 »
NGL i was not a fan of the integrated plate and 3d printed bottom from the very beginning. The new design is much more refined and i'm very happy you made the changes. Looking forward to the GB now, GL! :)

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #385 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 14:19:00 »
Show Image


I'm ecstatic with the changes. This board instantly went from "maybe if I have the cash" status, to "I gotta get one". Additionally, now that the base will be cast, does that mean an increase of the GB limit? Or maybe even an unlimited GB? I mean you have to spread out the cost of the molds, right? Right? :D

Interesting write-up! It was a thoughtful read and it looks like these changes are all for the better.

Regarding the bottom case now being produced via casting rather than 3d printing - do you think you will also consider running a larger group buy than initially discussed as a result of this change? This certainly seems like the right direction in terms of both accessibility and quality, and will pay off especially with a larger order. I'd like to get my hands on this board and I'm hoping it's not going to be as hard to get as it initially sounded.

EDIT: Also a follow-up question - will the bottom base possibly be available in new materials besides aluminum along with this process change? I'd imagine brass will be nice if you're still sticking to the color scheme.

Unlimited still isn't going to happen, but the run size will likely increase to make the most of the molds.


Offline DERBS

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #386 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:13:54 »
You say the keeping the 1.5 right shift is to keep the right mods aligned with the arrows but the column to the right of it isn't aligned to anything kinda defeating the purpose, the right arrow as well is on its own little world. Above all the support for that specific key isn't really there.


Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #387 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:33:01 »
You say the keeping the 1.5 right shift is to keep the right mods aligned with the arrows but the column to the right of it isn't aligned to anything kinda defeating the purpose, the right arrow as well is on its own little world. Above all the support for that specific key isn't really there.

Sure, but by using the 1.5 shift I can maintain a consistent bezel between the blocked arrows and the 4-key right column. (You could of course have a 3 key column with a .25u bezel between mods and the column, buy then the top arrow woul exist on an awkward island). If the .25u bezel wasn't there between then the knob wouldn't visually align in the top right of the board as one of the bezels would be larger than the other. Yes, the 1.5u shift is a compromise, but it's one I'm willing to make since I'm going to support the key with all of my future sets, and of course, you can always just put a control there.

Offline drevan

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #388 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:45:17 »
Made an account just because I wanted to say the redesign looks fantastic! Job well done and I look forward to trying to get my hands on one of these. Keeping an eye out on that IC form.

Offline kiwikang

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #389 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 17:01:43 »
This keyboard might actually be my first big purchase for myself. It just looks that good and I hope everything goes well.

Offline Romutulus

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #390 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 19:51:28 »
Really good work. Seeing you put so much good work into this is convincing me to grab one. That is, if it doesn't go out before I get my hands on it.

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #391 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:03:58 »
IC form added with a little surprise on page 2, thanks for the support everyone! :p

Offline Mooze_naps

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #392 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:13:29 »
What a surprise!! Thank you for all of this.

Offline dom

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup
« Reply #393 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:33:05 »
... little surprise on page 2

YES Sir!  :thumb:

Offline DuellM

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #394 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:40:43 »
This Looks Awesome!! I would love to see a render of a dark purple Evolv with GMK Bingsu
or a PC Evolv with GMK Botanical on it or Oooh a white Evolv with GMK Deep Navy  :eek:

Offline NathanAlphaMan

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #395 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 21:14:33 »
This Looks Awesome!! I would love to see a render of a dark purple Evolv with GMK Bingsu
or a PC Evolv with GMK Botanical on it or Oooh a white Evolv with GMK Deep Navy  :eek:

Yep, I will start working on additional keyset renders soon!

Offline twistitup

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #396 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 21:39:17 »
Thanks for the update, it's great to see what goes into designing a board like this. As before, I'm all in on this board. Hope it smoothly goes into GB phase :)

Offline Void225

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #397 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 22:23:23 »
You may feel that hotswap is low quality. I do not. I consider hotswap a feature, not a detriment, and the lack of it is a negative strike on any proposed board in my opinion.

On a layout not, 3 1u keys right of the space (ALT, FN, CTRL) are more practical than 2 1.5u keys, as this provides an excellent spot to put FN.

Offline Shadohhh

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #398 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:03:33 »
Well this just became interesting now that a proto exists. :thumb:

Sounds like you have a vision for your perfect keyboard. Keep up the good work, and don't compromise for others sake.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] Evolv has Evolved | Updated OP + Prototype Writeup + New IC Form
« Reply #399 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:11:47 »
You may feel that hotswap is low quality. I do not. I consider hotswap a feature, not a detriment, and the lack of it is a negative strike on any proposed board in my opinion.

On a layout not, 3 1u keys right of the space (ALT, FN, CTRL) are more practical than 2 1.5u keys, as this provides an excellent spot to put FN.
I mean normally hotswap is low quality because it limits the possible layouts on a pcb. Might not be the case here, but that's why. It's def not a negative strike for any board that wants to offer multiple layouts.