[IC] PuLSE SA Keyset (GET YOUR WALLET! - GB LIVE SEPT 8th 12:00 PST)

[BunnyLake]

Someone give a 3-1-2-3-4-3 to jd PLEASE!

If no one wants to, I may do it myself, or with the help of another interested party.

you can run it through the ctrlalt system if you want good sir, just take care of the thread, we can do the rest

[MiTo]

Someone give a 3-1-2-3-4-3 to jd PLEASE!

If no one wants to, I may do it myself, or with the help of another interested party.

you can run it through the ctrlalt system if you want good sir, just take care of the thread, we can do the rest

I've got another design. I already mentioned it. If you guys... (Airborne Keyset).

[tbc]

In regards to the sub forum the GB belongs in,
everything about Nuclear Data is rubbing me the wrong way.
Did that buy really get to stay in the GB thread because Samwisekoi[admin] didn't know the rules?

Who asked for your idiot opinion here in the FIRST place?

What sam wants to do with HIS group buy is his choice NOT YOURS.  Maybe you just need to bud out and leave people alone instead of trying to flame a non-existent issue with your own stupid understanding of the so-called rules, relating to his own GB.

has having a stupid opinion EVER stopped you from posting?


anyone here ACTUALLY a lawyer or has gone through this proces before?  is there some piece of fineprint that says ownership of the molds is NOT transferable without explicit permission from both SP and the owner?

also, has hasbaz/the community ever denied use of the molds?  have other communities requested use?  don't really follow deskthority or reddit.

[MiTo]

This thread became a complete mess.

[HoffmanMyster]

Alright everyone, let's get this IC thread back on track.  Although things did get out of hand, I think they were valid points that did warrant a discussion, so they will stay for the time being.  That's subject to change, but that's where we're at now.

It looks like we definitely have some things to discuss though, as can be seen in the OP.  Please review the OP and carry on discussion as needed.   

[taylordcraig]

In regards to the new information in the OP.

It is my preference to have a written list of 50 names of people who want to help pay for SA cherry legends.
I would probably still buy as SA with SP's standard legends.
I will not buy this set as DCS but I can see the allure of a cheaper set just for the color way.
I, however, buy key sets to type on. [with some very few exceptions]

I still vote x-1-2-3-4-3 for rows.
If we're taking names for 50, we can quote the lower price, no?
I will buy one of each kit @ 138, 8, 33, 14, 18 = 211 + shipping.

[SpAmRaY]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

[MiTo]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

And that basically ends my conversation with Hoffman. We can only consider the "Taking Orders - Need 50 before we submit PuLSE to PMK" format, if people really wanted PuLSE on SA w/ Cherries which apparently it's not the case. I believe that with PuLSE we've got a great design to be applied on the SA profile, but the set itself is not enough to crowdfund the $5k we need to pay to PMK so they start manufacturing Cherries in SA.

[taylordcraig]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

I believe the first number is including the cost of the legends, and the second number was the set with legends @ 50 pieces sold.
Looking at these pricing tiers, at 50 sets sold we save $129. [340-211=129]
Is the math bad somewhere or is SP giving us a bigger break because of the cost of the set?

When looking at the 50 MOQ prices compared to Penumbra, it's only 50% more cost.

[SpAmRaY]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

I believe the first number is including the cost of the legends, and the second number was the set with legends @ 50 pieces sold.
Looking at these pricing tiers, at 50 sets sold we save $129. [340-211=129]
Is the math bad somewhere or is SP giving us a bigger break because of the cost of the set?

When looking at the 50 MOQ prices compared to Penumbra, it's only 50% more cost.

The info I was going off of is found in this post http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61822.msg1441648#msg1441648

But when I said $200+ price I meant the 50 MOQ with legend price baked in. It appears they are only charging an additional $4300 for legends (which didn't make sense) versus if you bought them outright at $5850. I've already said all this once in this thread. :facepalm:

[MiTo]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

I believe the first number is including the cost of the legends, and the second number was the set with legends @ 50 pieces sold.
Looking at these pricing tiers, at 50 sets sold we save $129. [340-211=129]
Is the math bad somewhere or is SP giving us a bigger break because of the cost of the set?

When looking at the 50 MOQ prices compared to Penumbra, it's only 50% more cost.

I explained that on /r/MK but missed it here, lord, I'm lost today. First number is the value at 25 MOQ and the second one, 50 MOQ.

[taylordcraig]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

I believe the first number is including the cost of the legends, and the second number was the set with legends @ 50 pieces sold.
Looking at these pricing tiers, at 50 sets sold we save $129. [340-211=129]
Is the math bad somewhere or is SP giving us a bigger break because of the cost of the set?

When looking at the 50 MOQ prices compared to Penumbra, it's only 50% more cost.

I explained that on /r/MK but missed it here, lord, I'm lost today. First number is the value at 25 MOQ and the second one, 50 MOQ.

Looking at the chart spammy is refering to http://i.imgur.com/jCq96Om.png shouldnt it be $121 not $138?

[MiTo]

Pretty sure the $200+ price includes legend fees, the set with regular font was ~$90 cheaper.

If asking for 50 people to just pay for the legend cost its 130 x $45 = $5850 (per info posted earlier) so at 50 people $117 each. I doubt that's going to happen.

I believe the first number is including the cost of the legends, and the second number was the set with legends @ 50 pieces sold.
Looking at these pricing tiers, at 50 sets sold we save $129. [340-211=129]
Is the math bad somewhere or is SP giving us a bigger break because of the cost of the set?

When looking at the 50 MOQ prices compared to Penumbra, it's only 50% more cost.

The info I was going off of is found in this post http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61822.msg1441648#msg1441648

But when I said $200+ price I meant the 50 MOQ with legend price baked in. It appears they are only charging an additional $4300 for legends (which didn't make sense) versus if you bought them outright at $5850. I've already said all this once in this thread. :facepalm:

The prices on the table I linked on the other post are referred to the following design (http://imgur.com/a/Wxw7I). This design features a lot more Cherry Legends then the one you can see on the BREAKING NEWS section of OP. The prices to this version of the set, that feature less Cherries, are also on the image (http://i.imgur.com/6wYhCRJ.png). I reduced the Cherries and somehow, the costs got bigger.

EDIT: In case I wasn't clear enough, below you can see the e-mail Melissa sent me regarding the prices for the keyset on this (http://imgur.com/a/yxG0P) album.

Pricing for the sets is below - assuming all new legends:
 
Base Set
25 sets                   $224 per set
50 sets                   $138 per set
75 sets                   $109 per set
100 sets                 $95 per set
150 sets                 $80 per set
200 sets                 $73 per set
250 sets                 $69 per set
 
Numpack
25 sets                   $54 per set
50 sets                   $33 per set
75 sets                   $26 per set
100 sets                 $22 per set
150 sets                 $19 per set
200 sets                 $17 per set
250 sets                 $16 per set
 
Tsangan Pack
25 sets                   $27 per set
50 sets                   $18 per set
75 sets                   $15 per set
100 sets                 $13 per set
150 sets                 $11 per set
250 sets                 $10 per set
 
Novelty
25 sets                   $12 per set
50 sets                   $8 per set
75 sets                   $7 per set
100 sets                 $6 per set
200 sets                 $5 per set
 
ISO Pack
25 sets                   $23 per set
50 sets                   $14 per set
75 sets                   $11 per set
100 sets                 $10 per set
150 sets                 $9 per set
200 sets                 $8 per set

[MiTo]

I'll quote the most important info on OP here for clearer visualization:

2) We change the Cherry Legends to the centered capital legends featured in the Penumbra Keyset, which are the Standard SP Legends. PuLSE would still be Sculpted SA but much cheaper. I'll post mockups in a few hours with the Helvetica Round font (which is very close to the Standard SP Legends) on the keys, so you guys can feel the new design. In this case, the SA Profile setup would be 1-2-3-3-3-4 or X-1-2-3-4-3 (with X being 2 or 3 - http://imgur.com/a/5lZIq). The problem is that Signature Plastics can't make the Shift Row on the Profile 4 at the moment because they lack the stuff to do it. Some people mentioned they will be able to produce it on September and since our GB is scheduled to go live on Sep 8th, maybe we could go for X-1-2-3-4-3 without any problems. Gotta check with Melissa. But until I edit this, the decision is 1-2-3-3-3-4 with a [Matte Top/Semi-Matte Sides] finish;

[DanielT]

Just one small question regarding Cherry legends, as I'm new and have no knowledge of the old times when the first Cherry replica legends were created, how was solved the tooling cost back then ? Was that paid by an individual, or the money was raised during the GB ? Maybe something can be worked out to bring Cherry legends also in SA profile family.

Looking at the OP I like the simplicity of the mockup, it's all you need for a standard board and even covers some custom layouts. The color scheme (hate to call it colorway) is really nice and appealing to me. As I hate compromises I'm for the 1-2-3-3-3-4, hate to see some keys out of place in a row, as for ergonomics...for me sculpted of flat is the same, I can type anyway, and the most important thing is the look of the set that must be consistent and well balanced and in this case it is.

[pasph]

Make a graphite keyset replica SA with Cherry legends and put the MOQ to 100.
I think it's the most wanted set still without a round 2.

[pasph]

Oh and consider that Matt3o sold 60 international kits of Granite...

[SpAmRaY]

Just one small question regarding Cherry legends, as I'm new and have no knowledge of the old times when the first Cherry replica legends were created, how was solved the tooling cost back then ? Was that paid by an individual, or the money was raised during the GB ? Maybe something can be worked out to bring Cherry legends also in SA profile family.

I wasn't around for most of it but as anyone should its always good to know some history around here. Originally over the course of a few years many sales were done with proceeds going to the legend fund as well as donations, people actually buying legends and many other fundraisers/auctions etc to raise the money, this is a poor summary I'm sure but here are some relevant threads and sometimes it is hard to find the older threads but here are two I can point you towards. One of my first auctions/sales I got into and how I came to know a good friend was an auction to raise some of the final funds for the set.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28324.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=32496.0

[Oobly]

I'll quote the most important info on OP here for clearer visualization:

2) We change the Cherry Legends to the centered capital legends featured in the Penumbra Keyset, which are the Standard SP Legends. PuLSE would still be Sculpted SA but much cheaper. I'll post mockups in a few hours with the Helvetica Round font (which is very close to the Standard SP Legends) on the keys, so you guys can feel the new design. In this case, the SA Profile setup would be 1-2-3-3-3-4 or X-1-2-3-4-3 (with X being 2 or 3 - http://imgur.com/a/5lZIq). The problem is that Signature Plastics can't make the Shift Row on the Profile 4 at the moment because they lack the stuff to do it. Some people mentioned they will be able to produce it on September and since our GB is scheduled to go live on Sep 8th, maybe we could go for X-1-2-3-4-3 without any problems. Gotta check with Melissa. But until I edit this, the decision is 1-2-3-3-3-4 with a [Matte Top/Semi-Matte Sides] finish;

The problem with 1-2-3-3-3-4 is that they only have R3 spacebars, so the mods will be a different profile to the spacebar. I much prefer 3-1-2-3-4-3 if they do make those R4 shift molds. I also prefer the standard SA font on these caps. IMHO, Cherry font works best on DCS (and I love my Cherry Legend Replica set!), but wouldn't look great on SA profile. It's too "modern".

The fewer new legends that are included, the lower the price should be.

[SpAmRaY]

IMHO, Cherry font works best on DCS (and I love my Cherry Legend Replica set!), but wouldn't look great on SA profile. It's too "modern".

This is something that should be greatly considered, everyone just gets all excited when the words 'cherry font' get thrown around.  )

[DanielT]

This is very interesting piece of information, thank you for clearing this for me. 
This kind of info should be made sticky so that any new member can learn about such important things.
Reading this confirmed at least for me that the community owns these legends.

L.E: In my humble opinion something that was created by a community should be owned buy an organization/club representing that community. Life has taught me not to place all the eggs in one basket, hope I'm not misunderstood being a non native English speaker sometimes my way of putting things on paper might lead to unwanted results. I mean no disrespect by saying what I said before, it is just an observation of an individual who had all kind of weird experiences in real life and learned to take everything with a "pinch of salt" 

[Data]

Show Image

MiTo, aka Lyqu1d @ /r/MK[/left]

Just saw this update.

Suggestion: If you're doing sculpted (or some variation thereof) then you might want to consider putting your novelty keys in Row 1 profile.

As for your dilemma, I'd lean towards changing the font and staying with sculpted SA profile.  I'd need to see some mock-ups to have a strong opinion either way.  But that's just my opinion and I think you should do whatever you feel is best for the set.  It's your project.

[MiTo]

Show Image

MiTo, aka Lyqu1d @ /r/MK[/left]

Just saw this update.

Suggestion: If you're doing sculpted (or some variation thereof) then you might want to consider putting your novelty keys in Row 1 profile.

As for your dilemma, I'd lean towards changing the font and staying with sculpted SA profile.  I'd need to see some mock-ups to have a strong opinion either way.  But that's just my opinion and I think you should do whatever you feel is best for the set.  It's your project.

I'll stick with Row 3 on Novelties because of keyboards like the Keycool 84. If you take a look at it, people with a Keycool 84 and PuLSE would have a straight Row 3 line on the right edge of the keyboard, with the Home cluster and novelties. I'm finishing some mockups and I will post'em soon. Keep in touch. Feel free to tell me why Row 1 on Novelties though. As you know that I always listen to your (and everubody's) feedbacks very openly.

[Data]

Just an observation.  Many novelty keys tend to wind up in the Function row, especially the Esc key spot.

[MiTo]

The problem with 1-2-3-3-3-4 is that they only have R3 spacebars, so the mods will be a different profile to the spacebar. I much prefer 3-1-2-3-4-3 if they do make those R4 shift molds. I also prefer the standard SA font on these caps. IMHO, Cherry font works best on DCS (and I love my Cherry Legend Replica set!), but wouldn't look great on SA profile. It's too "modern".

The fewer new legends that are included, the lower the price should be.

If you look at the Penumbra Keyset, it features a 1-2-3-3-3-4 layout with Row 4 mods and of course, a Row 3 spacebar.




Therefore, I don't think 1-2-3-3-3-4 it's a problem and it doesn't look bad. What do you think? And stand by for the Standard SA font on these caps, mockup is being done.

[DanielT]

All SA novelty keys I have are Row3 and I have a few of them.
The DCS novelty keys are Esc/Function row.

[JinDesu]

Or just have enough novelties to replace the entire F row...

Personally I don't care about the key profile. I'm in for the colors. Hopefully this all gets settled on soon.

[taylordcraig]

Make a graphite keyset replica SA with Cherry legends and put the MOQ to 100.
I think it's the most wanted set still without a round 2.

This is probably actually a really good idea.
I was talking to MiTo about designs that SCREAM Cherry SA.
We might collaborate to try and come up with something enough people will like to make it affordable.

[jdcarpe]

The problem with 1-2-3-3-3-4 is that they only have R3 spacebars, so the mods will be a different profile to the spacebar. I much prefer 3-1-2-3-4-3 if they do make those R4 shift molds. I also prefer the standard SA font on these caps. IMHO, Cherry font works best on DCS (and I love my Cherry Legend Replica set!), but wouldn't look great on SA profile. It's too "modern".

The fewer new legends that are included, the lower the price should be.

If you look at the Penumbra Keyset, it features a 1-2-3-3-3-4 layout with Row 4 mods and of course, a Row 3 spacebar.

Show Image

Therefore, I don't think 1-2-3-3-3-4 it's a problem and it doesn't look bad. What do you think? And stand by for the Standard SA font on these caps, mockup is being done.

It's not about the "look" of the profile. Keycaps are for typing on. How many people have actually typed on an SA set with uniform profile alphas? I have, and it feels very flat. That's why I advocate using 3-1-2-3-4-3 row profiles. The part that matters for typing, the alphas, are sculpted and would feel more natural, similar to how the backplate of a buckling spring keyboard is curved. That is what all sculptured keycaps are trying to replicate. Flattening out the alphas section, just for some aesthetic reason, is not justified.

Since your novelties will be in row 3 profile, it only makes sense for the F-row to be row 3.

[MiTo]

The problem with 1-2-3-3-3-4 is that they only have R3 spacebars, so the mods will be a different profile to the spacebar. I much prefer 3-1-2-3-4-3 if they do make those R4 shift molds. I also prefer the standard SA font on these caps. IMHO, Cherry font works best on DCS (and I love my Cherry Legend Replica set!), but wouldn't look great on SA profile. It's too "modern".

The fewer new legends that are included, the lower the price should be.

If you look at the Penumbra Keyset, it features a 1-2-3-3-3-4 layout with Row 4 mods and of course, a Row 3 spacebar.

Show Image

Therefore, I don't think 1-2-3-3-3-4 it's a problem and it doesn't look bad. What do you think? And stand by for the Standard SA font on these caps, mockup is being done.

It's not about the "look" of the profile. Keycaps are for typing on. How many people have actually typed on an SA set with uniform profile alphas? I have, and it feels very flat. That's why I advocate using 3-1-2-3-4-3 row profiles. The part that matters for typing, the alphas, are sculpted and would feel more natural, similar to how the backplate of a buckling spring keyboard is curved. That is what all sculptured keycaps are trying to replicate. Flattening out the alphas section, just for some aesthetic reason, is not justified.

Since your novelties will be in row 3 profile, it only makes sense for the F-row to be row 3.

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4. Therefore, it's impossible to go for 3-1-2-3-4-3 or 2-1-2-3-4-3 right now. Currently, the F-Row is on row 1 and the Novelties, well, I designed some of them on Row 1, 2 and 3. Uploading mockups.

[BunnyLake]

to be fair, this is getting a bit silly, mito, what you need to do, is put this on hold if you want to run it in SA, purchase some SA sets, and actually try them, figure out what you like and what is comfortable for you, all of this is subjective, but you are trying to have a subjective argument/conversation on a topic you know nothing about and have zero experience with

please dont take this as me being rude or knocking you, i am simply trying to give you some advice to set you up in the best possible position for success

[MiTo]

to be fair, this is getting a bit silly, mito, what you need to do, is put this on hold if you want to run it in SA, purchase some SA sets, and actually try them, figure out what you like and what is comfortable for you, all of this is subjective, but you are trying to have a subjective argument/conversation on a topic you know nothing about and have zero experience with

please dont take this as me being rude or knocking you, i am simply trying to give you some advice to set you up in the best possible position for success

Thanks.

EDIT: But no, thanks.

[MiTo]

PuLSE Budget below.

BASE SET

BASE SET W/ NOVELTIES

NOVELTIES

TSANGAN

NUMPACK

ERGO

PROFILE SETUP

Hope you like it. This is what they can produce (and it's affordable) until our GB launches.

[jdcarpe]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

[BunnyLake]

to be fair, this is getting a bit silly, mito, what you need to do, is put this on hold if you want to run it in SA, purchase some SA sets, and actually try them, figure out what you like and what is comfortable for you, all of this is subjective, but you are trying to have a subjective argument/conversation on a topic you know nothing about and have zero experience with

please dont take this as me being rude or knocking you, i am simply trying to give you some advice to set you up in the best possible position for success

Thanks.

EDIT: But no, thanks.

its amazing that you talk about this project with such passion, when you clearly couldnt care less about it, in the grand scheme of things, taking a few weeks to learn about what you are trying to do will mean nothing in terms of time, but everything in terms of the quality of your decisions and the final version of this set, clearly, all you care about is rushing this through, as shown by your response, and this set completely changing several times in several days

if you cant even make up your mind, or research what you are trying to do, how are people meant to have faith in you leading this project

[MiTo]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

[DanielT]

What is wrong with flat alphas, a lot and I mean a lot of people type on flat alphas and really enjoy the experience. I know people who have taken a lot of time to study typing ergonomics and flat alphas are their favorite. Only because you don't like it does not mean is wrong, is just a matter of taste and it should not be pushed as a golden rule.
I hate sculpted profile, my fingers get stuck in there and I hate it. Only Cherry profile is low enough for my taste from the sculpted ones.

[MiTo]

What is wrong with flat alphas, a lot and I mean a lot of people type on flat alphas and really enjoy the experience. I know people who have taken a lot of time to study typing ergonomics and flat alphas are their favorite. Only because you don't like it does not mean is wrong, is just a matter of taste and it should not be pushed as a golden rule.
I hate sculpted profile, my fingers get stuck in there and I hate it. Only Cherry profile is low enough for my taste from the sculpted ones.

This.

I want something suitable for gaming and I don't want fingers sticking on rows.

You concluded the discussion, 1-2-3-3-3-4 is the final decision.

[BunnyLake]

What is wrong with flat alphas, a lot and I mean a lot of people type on flat alphas and really enjoy the experience. I know people who have taken a lot of time to study typing ergonomics and flat alphas are their favorite. Only because you don't like it does not mean is wrong, is just a matter of taste and it should not be pushed as a golden rule.
I hate sculpted profile, my fingers get stuck in there and I hate it. Only Cherry profile is low enough for my taste from the sculpted ones.

im not saying flat alphas are bad at all, i think its a preference thing, and im not fighting for either side, all i have been trying to suggest is that the person supposedly making the decision also has some understanding as to what he is deciding, what i do think everyone can agree on is, there is a massive difference between sculpted and flat, and the OP seems to think that is meaningless and we choose the shapes of keys based on aesthetics alone

[absyrd]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

Aesthetically based upon that side view drawing of profiles? Because that doesn't mean crap. It is the feels that matter.

[jdcarpe]

I know people who have taken a lot of time to study typing ergonomics and flat alphas are their favorite.

You have links to support this? I'm interested in reading what these people have to say on the subject.

[MiTo]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

Aesthetically based upon that side view drawing of profiles? Because that doesn't mean crap. It is the feels that matter.

Would you buy a car with real size mirrors in the place of side-mirrors? They would be great for driving.

Joking, I know what you're talking about. But the feels won't change as much as you believe they will by we going flat.

[jdcarpe]

the feels won't change as much as you believe they will by we going flat.

Says someone with zero typing experience on them.

[BunnyLake]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

Aesthetically based upon that side view drawing of profiles? Because that doesn't mean crap. It is the feels that matter.

Would you buy a car with real size mirrors in the place of side-mirrors? They would be great for driving.

Joking, I know what you're talking about. But the feels won't change as much as you believe they will by we going flat.

so, the person who has never even touched as SA key, is trying to tell people how little difference there is in the feeling of drastically different versions of them

this is what you are dealing with people

[Data]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

Aesthetically based upon that side view drawing of profiles? Because that doesn't mean crap. It is the feels that matter.

Would you buy a car with real size mirrors in the place of side-mirrors? They would be great for driving.

Joking, I know what you're talking about. But the feels won't change as much as you believe they will by we going flat.

so, the person who has never even touched as SA key, is trying to tell people how little difference there is in the feeling of drastically different versions of them

this is what you are dealing with people

Were you this critical of previous GBs with uniform SA alphas?

Just curious.

[BunnyLake]

The problem is that SP can't make Shift on Row 4.

So people who order this keyset will forever be typing on flat alphas, just because a couple keys on the periphery aren't made in the correct profile?

Ask 7bit over at Deskthority how many orders he got for his Round 5 "Honeywell" SA set, that is done in 1-1-2-3-4-3 profiles, with row 3 Shifts.

Plus we already know from Melissa at SP that the Shift molds in row 4 profile are coming in just a couple of months. I just don't see how the Shift keys are making this a problem.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

Aesthetically based upon that side view drawing of profiles? Because that doesn't mean crap. It is the feels that matter.

Would you buy a car with real size mirrors in the place of side-mirrors? They would be great for driving.

Joking, I know what you're talking about. But the feels won't change as much as you believe they will by we going flat.

so, the person who has never even touched as SA key, is trying to tell people how little difference there is in the feeling of drastically different versions of them

this is what you are dealing with people

Were you this critical of previous GBs with uniform SA alphas?

Just curious.

sir i dont think you can read, i did a gb with the profile he is copying, he even uses my buy as reference material

at no point am i arguing about the profile used, but commenting on his lack of understanding, he is making statements that he cant possibly make

he is telling people, that it makes no difference in feeling between sculted and flat, when he has tried neither

[osi]

I envy your patience and reserve Bunny 

[JinDesu]

If the OP has made a decision and provided the reason for the decision and has submitted the work and documentation along with his decision, I think it's perfectly fine to let it the IC continue as an IC and not harp on his decision... If you dislike why he got to his decision, it seems like it's something that should be discussed in PMs, no?

[LechnerDE]

So has the decision for SA profile been made?

Because the OP still has this option:

3) We change the profile to DCS but keep the Cherry Legends. We would have something similar to the Midnight Keyset when it comes to prices.


Just for the record. I'll pass on a SA set (because I don't like typing on SA), but will happily join a second Round in DCS

[nathanrosspowell]

Thanks.

EDIT: But no, thanks.

Why don't you take a deep breath and step off your high horse. Then start using some class when you get free advice from respected figures in the community you keep saying you are doing everything for.

We won't wait a couple of months and I read the entire thread of Honeywell on DT last night. Aesthetically, a Row 4 row with 2 Row 3 keys look weird weird to me. It's like a ghetto SA. And I'm going for the look at this point because sincerely, "typing on a flat surface" or on slightly angled keycaps won't make much of a difference in the end.

Who exactly is the 'we' you speak of? This community? They are pretty much the Kings and Queens of waiting an extra couple of months to get the right custom made parts for their hobby.

What what it is worth I like the colours. But, I think you need to get a re-count on the interest once you finalise the design (again).