Thanks for the update.
Could you please explain why PuLSE is listed as "ON HOLD" and Decked Out is not listed at all even though it ran before PuLSE?
"These keyset have not been approved for scheduling additional production runs."
Doesn't look like they'll be making more until they're allowed to do so (or have the resources to do so).
I'd like to get confirmation on something regarding that. What happens if someone submits new paperwork / art for an existing colorway, naming it something else and either changing or eliminating novelties?
I'd like to get confirmation on something regarding that. What happens if someone submits new paperwork / art for an existing colorway, naming it something else and either changing or eliminating novelties?
Since you mentioned I'd like to give my input towards this subject, even though you asked OP and not me.
Taking PuLSE as an example, it featured black/cyan text legended alphas and modifiers with Signature Plastics' font. It also featured aqua and blue novelty keycaps with specific and customized icons. Any other sets that eventually present any of the above mentioned features is essentially (and consequentially) copying PuLSE and the concepts that define it as a custom keyset created by myself and therefore should not go through their system nor be allowed to happen without my strict permission. The premise is that such colorway, applied on keycaps created and manufactured by Signature Plastics is a design concept that I created. This logic obviously can't be applied to complex industrial manufactured products, due to their very detailed patent registration nature, but since we are discussing about a product that is defined by it's artistic appeal and belongs to a very specific niche (keyboard enthusiasts), such logic could be easily comprehended and be applied in my perception.
This is my perspective and I believe it should be taken into consideration given that, for many reasons, me and the Ctrl.Alt team are in the eye of this discussion. Mostly due to the popularity of projects created by us before new implementations and policies from Signature Plastics took place.
You used black and cyan? Big ****ing deal, so did every other set that used those colors, perhaps not exclusively, but they were used before. Did you ask everyone that had a black alpha or modifier in previous sets for permission? I assume not, because that would be retarded.
You didn't "create" anything, you matched colors and people liked it. Pulse is a nice looking set, but it is not art nor any sort of legitimate intellectual property. Get over yourself. That type of self entitled behavior is childish and arrogant.
Side note: your pulse icon looks like a QRS trace, did you ask for permission to use that? I doubt it, because no one ones the concept.
Second note: Tron (2010) made heavy use of black and cyan, did you ask Disney for permission? I doubt it, because that would be unreasonable.
Edit: I have no need to get involved in drama
MiTo's sense of entitlement is endorsed by nearly everyone on GH, DT, and /r/mech.
Yeah he made a bug huge deal about it, said goodbye, and then came back.MiTo's sense of entitlement is endorsed by nearly everyone on GH, DT, and /r/mech.
Wasn't he basically run out of GH for this (among other things)?
MiTo's sense of entitlement is endorsed by nearly everyone on GH, DT, and /r/mech.
Wasn't he basically run out of GH for this (among other things)?
Which is unfortunate in my opinion.MiTo's sense of entitlement is endorsed by nearly everyone on GH, DT, and /r/mech.
Wasn't he basically run out of GH for this (among other things)?
MiTo, the individual, may have had a tumultuous relationship with this community, but his perspective on colorway/design ownership, no matter how obnoxiously defended, is nevertheless the community norm.
If anyone here is interested in knowing the story behind my decision to quit and my decision to return to the keyboard communities, I'd like to kindly ask you to speak directly with me in private. I never ignored anyone and I'm always open to a conversation. Don't act like you know everything and don't act like you know me or have spoken with me in the past if you really didn't. There are lots of misinformation going around, not only here in this thread/community, and such happenings hurt and deviate from the main topic of discussion. This is already going on in this particular thread and such replies have already been reported.
This reply of mine is not directed to any particular individuals, but to everyone in this forum who will eventually read this reply and the entire thread.
open to a conversation
open to a conversation
open to a conversation
open to a conversation
MITO nor signature plastcs ever trademarked the colorways. remember how tao hai gratuitously ripped off ctrlalt.ios colors in their "new" keysets? no trademarks filed for a particular colorway means its fair game
mod edit: removed personal attack
However, despite of what you think I did create the set, since I spent many hours digitally painting a virtual keyboard layout and importing patially done sketched by hand drawings, to be used as novelty icons in the vector form.
Such icon is a letter "M" meant to represent my nickname on this forum even though it resembles a QRS trace. It looks vibrant and full of energy, like myself, so I decided to name the set "PuLSE".
MITO nor signature plastcs ever trademarked the colorways. remember how tao hai gratuitously ripped off ctrlalt.ios colors in their "new" keysets? no trademarks filed for a particular colorway means its fair game
mod edit: removed personal attack
I don't approve this mod edit as there were no personal attacks
I would like to speak with the council on this matter
However, despite of what you think I did create the set, since I spent many hours digitally painting a virtual keyboard layout and importing patially done sketched by hand drawings, to be used as novelty icons in the vector form.Such icon is a letter "M" meant to represent my nickname on this forum even though it resembles a QRS trace. It looks vibrant and full of energy, like myself, so I decided to name the set "PuLSE".
I'm just gonna leave this here. I've found a bunch of the other icons you've used as well. I hope in the very least you're compensating the original designers of these icons whether by attribution or paying for a license to use.
https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=pulse&i=27272
As a designer myself, had you actually drew these icons I might have backed some of your sentiment. Time and again I've seen you post some very arrogant and ignorant statements to others in the community who want to create keysets. Since for the majority this is purely a hobby and not something we make a living at doing I would hope that we would encourage each other and not make bold claims about copyrights for colorways, etc. If we boycott a guy for wanting to design a keyset loosely similar to calm depths, should we not boycott 7bits honeywell sets? or how about the use of kalih, gateron, or any other clone cherry switch for ripping off the original? I don't think we should. All of the work that gets put into our keyboards, whether it be new switches, keysets, custom plates, cases or pcbs, only furthers innovation and creativity. To state ownership over a color combination that you might have been the first to come up with is, in my opinion, immature and ignorant.
However, despite of what you think I did create the set, since I spent many hours digitally painting a virtual keyboard layout and importing patially done sketched by hand drawings, to be used as novelty icons in the vector form.Such icon is a letter "M" meant to represent my nickname on this forum even though it resembles a QRS trace. It looks vibrant and full of energy, like myself, so I decided to name the set "PuLSE".
I'm just gonna leave this here. I've found a bunch of the other icons you've used as well. I hope in the very least you're compensating the original designers of these icons whether by attribution or paying for a license to use.
https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=pulse&i=27272
As a designer myself, had you actually drew these icons I might have backed some of your sentiment. Time and again I've seen you post some very arrogant and ignorant statements to others in the community who want to create keysets. Since for the majority this is purely a hobby and not something we make a living at doing I would hope that we would encourage each other and not make bold claims about copyrights for colorways, etc. If we boycott a guy for wanting to design a keyset loosely similar to calm depths, should we not boycott 7bits honeywell sets? or how about the use of kalih, gateron, or any other clone cherry switch for ripping off the original? I don't think we should. All of the work that gets put into our keyboards, whether it be new switches, keysets, custom plates, cases or pcbs, only furthers innovation and creativity. To state ownership over a color combination that you might have been the first to come up with is, in my opinion, immature and ignorant.
https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=pulse&i=27272
However, despite of what you think I did create the set, since I spent many hours digitally painting a virtual keyboard layout and importing patially done sketched by hand drawings, to be used as novelty icons in the vector form.Such icon is a letter "M" meant to represent my nickname on this forum even though it resembles a QRS trace. It looks vibrant and full of energy, like myself, so I decided to name the set "PuLSE".
I'm just gonna leave this here. I've found a bunch of the other icons you've used as well. I hope in the very least you're compensating the original designers of these icons whether by attribution or paying for a license to use.
https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=pulse&i=27272
As a designer myself, had you actually drew these icons I might have backed some of your sentiment. Time and again I've seen you post some very arrogant and ignorant statements to others in the community who want to create keysets. Since for the majority this is purely a hobby and not something we make a living at doing I would hope that we would encourage each other and not make bold claims about copyrights for colorways, etc. If we boycott a guy for wanting to design a keyset loosely similar to calm depths, should we not boycott 7bits honeywell sets? or how about the use of kalih, gateron, or any other clone cherry switch for ripping off the original? I don't think we should. All of the work that gets put into our keyboards, whether it be new switches, keysets, custom plates, cases or pcbs, only furthers innovation and creativity. To state ownership over a color combination that you might have been the first to come up with is, in my opinion, immature and ignorant.
I do however claim that I was the first person to use a particular color scheme with Signature Plastics, also combining with it icons - all of them done by myself but the main logo/megaphone, together with their own font and particular profile (SA).
kk so something no one cares about
gotcha
kk so something no one cares about
gotcha
I believe that some people care about that, otherwise we would had Penumbra 2 made by somebody else instead of Ctrl.Alt. Note that the set doesn't have graphic novelties and it's a pure combination of colors and legends (and one of the most likable ones, since the set is pretty popular). It's a very well made set and I don't think it should be reproduced either. One can be lead to believe that Godspeed/Cospar is a set that resembles Penumbra, but so does Jukebox with it's beige accents. Jukebox however has its own theme (like Godspeed/Cospar) and therefore is a completely different project. Note that none of the sets share color chips, if you are speaking about manufacturing.
https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=pulse&i=27272
That's indeed very interesting. The PuLSE icon is indeed created by Nico and wasn't one of the ones that I created and vectorized. The PuLSE icon was the result of a Google search (don't remember exactly what I googled) but I was looking for a pulse trace that would more closely resemble a letter "M".
Do you have other sources for graphics that I used?
Because the printer, the house and the RMK keycap (keyboard icon) ones were created by hand. The megaphone also is not my creation and it was the result of a Google search too (don't remember the exact word I used). All of the icons used on Sci-Fi are my creation too, but they are a combination of hand drawing and Microsoft Paint geometric forms combination.
It always seemed to me that Pulse was just a modification of Calm Depths (SA, cyan on dark alphas, same font?).
Also, since this thread was moved from other thread, I'd like to make clear (answering the title) that I do not believe that anybody can claim ownership over a color scheme.
In case anybody here want to use this as a backup for their argument, note that I never said that.
I do however claim that I was the first person to use a particular color scheme with Signature Plastics, also combining with it icons - all of them done by myself but the main logo/megaphone, together with their own font and particular profile (SA).
... the concepts that define it as a custom keyset created by myself and therefore should not go through their system nor be allowed to happen without my strict permission. The premise is that such colorway, applied on keycaps created and manufactured by Signature Plastics is a design concept that I created...
brb going to IC my new sweet custom keyset now
PuLSE 2 - The second person to ever use this color scheme
Overall I don't really care which icons you did or didn't create. And yes, I do have other sources for graphics you've used but I don't think it's worth either of our time in me posting them or calling you out on it, because in the end it doesn't really matter. Making an icon isn't really that difficult (I've made hundreds myself.) Nowadays with the influx of sites like nounproject, 8icon, etc, I don't expect that many of the 'novelties' I see in keysets are created by the set designers unless explicitly stated so.
In this particular instance, while you didn't explicitly state you designed the pulse icon, you certainly alluded to it. Keysets AREN'T art. They're functional things that are meant to be used and enjoyed.
Top kekAlso, since this thread was moved from other thread, I'd like to make clear (answering the title) that I do not believe that anybody can claim ownership over a color scheme.
In case anybody here want to use this as a backup for their argument, note that I never said that.
I do however claim that I was the first person to use a particular color scheme with Signature Plastics, also combining with it icons - all of them done by myself but the main logo/megaphone, together with their own font and particular profile (SA).... the concepts that define it as a custom keyset created by myself and therefore should not go through their system nor be allowed to happen without my strict permission. The premise is that such colorway, applied on keycaps created and manufactured by Signature Plastics is a design concept that I created...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BRLDkTO.jpg)
should change the title of this thread to:
An exclusive in-depth interview with Mito (who is not the owner of any colorways)
Another thing to note, given the material provided by lucaslink is that the PuLSE icon is under the CC 3.0 license that states:Bro, you take yourself way to ****ing seriously. It is painful to read sometimes. Just take a step back and look at the big picture. Have a sense of humor about yourself.
You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
The terms being:
Under the following terms:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.
Therefore others are free to use the PuLSE icon in whatever they want and I have no control over that. Such symbol was even used on custom made wrist rests.
I agree that some icons are a bit too general (like the PuLSE trace) and aren't hard to create, but credit must be given to whoever created it. When looking for inspiration you can see that many graphics and drawings share angles, lines and curves. I do not claim ownership over Nico's trace nor the megaphone from (probably) somebody else. There wasn't a name or a source on the image I used so it was impossible to tell who created such general symbol. I searched for the closest trace that could resemble a letter "M", out of hundreds, reproduced it on Paint and went with it.
But I don't think you really have a source for "other icons that I used" since absolutely all of them but the trace/megaphone were done by me. And since you are a designer, you'll agree that wouldn't take too long to make them either. However there was a complex thought process behind their creation and usage.
You're not helping yourself Mito. You did not credit the creator of the icon which is what the Creative Commons license states must be done.
Additionally, you cannot copyright a colorway or arrangements of color and colors can only be trademarked as part of trade dress. A set using a colorway is not trade dress.
Another thing to note, given the material provided by lucaslink is that the PuLSE icon is under the CC 3.0 license that states:
You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
The terms being:
Under the following terms:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.
Therefore others are free to use the PuLSE icon in whatever they want and I have no control over that. Such symbol was even used on custom made wrist rests.
You're not helping yourself Mito. You did not credit the creator of the icon which is what the Creative Commons license states must be done.
Additionally, you cannot copyright a colorway or arrangements of color and colors can only be trademarked as part of trade dress. A set using a colorway is not trade dress.
Nor did the person who shared his icon (if he/she was even the first). I used the general shape that I found in good faith. Since such happening took place, according to the license it seems that the actual creator, Nico, can revoke usage of such symbol for any kind of application, including commercial reproduction. And since you're mentioning that's something that's clearly way beyond me.
As a response to the second half of your reply, note that it was written under the premise that I'm intending in copyright a color way. Which is not what I'm planning to do nor something that I agree with. It's an invalid point.
You're not helping yourself Mito. You did not credit the creator of the icon which is what the Creative Commons license states must be done.
Additionally, you cannot copyright a colorway or arrangements of color and colors can only be trademarked as part of trade dress. A set using a colorway is not trade dress.
Nor did the person who shared his icon (if he/she was even the first). I used the general shape that I found in good faith. Since such happening took place, according to the license it seems that the actual creator, Nico, can revoke usage of such symbol for any kind of application, including commercial reproduction. And since you're mentioning that's something that's clearly way beyond me.
As a response to the second half of your reply, note that it was written under the premise that I'm intending in copyright a color way. Which is not what I'm planning to do nor something that I agree with. It's an invalid point.
so, you admit to tracing the pulse icon and not giving Nico credit and/or compensation? yet, its not ok for others to design keysets that slightly resemble others? i don't get it. googling an image doesn't give you the right to use it in something for commercial use. and yes, if you're making money from the sale of any of your keysets, its commercial. its part of the reason why SP charges what they do to use custom typefaces. they have to pay the original designers licensing fees to use it.
OK fine.. https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=leaf&i=27507 you have that in one or two of your keysets, don't you? I didn't see it attributed in your IC posts. like i said, i reaaaaaaally don't care whether or not you create the icons. you made a keyset that people like and want to put on their keyboards. you should be proud of that, but that pride doesn't give you the right to step on others or claim ownership over things that you simply don't or can't own.
but the keyset itself, which was sold and the money donated to a local asylum.
but the keyset itself, which was sold and the money donated to a local asylum.
now it's starting to make sense..
If you created it and you post it under your name, you don't attribute yourself outside of your name you post it under. In other words, I don't know what you're trying to say with that since you are not the creator. If you use the identical design in a non-transformative way without attribution, you're violating the Creative Commons copyright. That's why I said that your Creative Commons argument was one against yourself since you did not attribute the creator.
While you did not state that you were intending on copyrighting a color way, you did state that it belongs to you, is your concept, and should not be able to be run by someone else. I was stating that you have no legal grounds for blocking someone from running that colorway if they wanted to do so.
I don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".
I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.
I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.
(http://www.thenug.com/sites/default/pub/091313/thenug-P8JsRLcYWk.gif)
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
MoreI don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SSiA8dv.gif)I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png (http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png) godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nhuvKoW.gif)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UZppjpV.gif)
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png (http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png) godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nhuvKoW.gif)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UZppjpV.gif)
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png (http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png) godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nhuvKoW.gif)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UZppjpV.gif)
About the PuLSE icon, it looks exactly the same and it's clearly from Nico. The diameter of the edges and angles are in fact identical and this is not a surprise, since I used an image featuring his icon as reference to create a logo for the set.
I can't say anything but repeat that the the leaf is an incredible coincidence. Not a surprise though, since it's a general shape with an closed angle cut. Anyone can do this is less than five minutes.
The planet is a scan from a newsletter from my university, they used this icon as a tag for highlighting their website on the back of the newsletter. They also have the Facebook iconic "f" and a small phone to highlight their telephone number.
At this point you guys discussing ownership of everything might as well discuss the ownership of the shape of our planet and a leaf. Good luck with that.
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png (http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png) godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nhuvKoW.gif)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UZppjpV.gif)
About the PuLSE icon, it looks exactly the same and it's clearly from Nico. The diameter of the edges and angles are in fact identical and this is not a surprise, since I used an image featuring his icon as reference to create a logo for the set.
I can't say anything but repeat that the the leaf is an incredible coincidence. Not a surprise though, since it's a general shape with an closed angle cut. Anyone can do this is less than five minutes and I created the one I used from scratch.
The planet is a scan from a newsletter from my university, they used this icon as a tag for highlighting their website on the back of the newsletter. They also have the Facebook iconic "f" and a small phone to highlight their telephone number.
At this point you guys discussing ownership of everything might as well discuss the ownership of the shape of our planet and a leaf. Good luck with that.
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???
For the leaf I created it from scratch
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???
You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:
1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a fancy (unrealistic) sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.
For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???
You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:
1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.
For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???
You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:
1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a fancy (unrealistic) sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.
For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.
For the leaf I created it from scratch
I'm having a lot of trouble believing this
it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...
For the leaf I created it from scratch
I'm having a lot of trouble believing this
it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...
It's the only style that I know how to work with. I'm no master when it comes to drawing complex forms or shapes, all I know is how to combine geometric elements. For the leaf I used circles and kept changing the curvature until I had a natural shape. After that, I used the "Ink pen" tool from Inkscape to make the part that sticks in the branch (tail? don't know the proper name in English) and a negative of this same shape, in order to complete the form of a leaf.
It's a general shape, very easy to make and an unfortunate coincidence, whether you believe it or not.
If you take Sci-Fi icons, weapons and grenades you will see the same kind of style, curvature and shapes. Again, it's the only style I can make as I'm not talented enough to make complex things like a sloth with hair, eyes and stuff like that.
For the leaf I created it from scratch
I'm having a lot of trouble believing this
it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...
It's the only style that I know how to work with. I'm no master when it comes to drawing complex forms or shapes, all I know is how to combine geometric elements. For the leaf I used circles and kept changing the curvature until I had a natural shape. After that, I used the "Ink pen" tool from Inkscape to make the part that sticks in the branch (tail? don't know the proper name in English) and a negative of this same shape, in order to complete the form of a leaf.
It's a general shape, very easy to make and an unfortunate coincidence, whether you believe it or not.
If you take Sci-Fi icons, weapons and grenades you will see the same kind of style, curvature and shapes. Again, it's the only style I can make as I'm not talented enough to make complex things like a sloth with hair, eyes and stuff like that.
Keep arguing about icons that were used on a mockup which is secondary and won't even be produced with the Godspeed keyset.
I created a general leaf, despite of what you all think but I didn't create the planet, the PuLSE icon and the cosmonaut helmet. The cosmonaut helmet was also featured in the newsletter so I assume it has the same origins from the planet.
Two sets of my making went into production already. All of their legends and icons are my absolute creation from scratch, but the PuLSE logo. The only icon featured on Godspeed is a combo between the hydrogen atom structure and the curved shape from NASA's logo. I created it from scratch and absolutely nobody else did.
Use your own judgement to witch hunt on me, with all the facts on the table.
Can you provide any sort of proof of these claims? Witch hunts are without basis, and I think we have plenty of basis.
Another thing to note, given the material provided by lucaslink is that the PuLSE icon is under the CC 3.0 license that states:Bro, you take yourself way to ****ing seriously. It is painful to read sometimes. Just take a step back and look at the big picture. Have a sense of humor about yourself.
You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
The terms being:
Under the following terms:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.
Therefore others are free to use the PuLSE icon in whatever they want and I have no control over that. Such symbol was even used on custom made wrist rests.
http://www.copyright.gov/title37/202/37cfr202-1.html (http://www.copyright.gov/title37/202/37cfr202-1.html)
§202.1 Material not subject to copyright.
The following are examples of works not subject to copyright and applications for registration of such works cannot be entertained:
(a) Words and short phrases such as names, titles, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering or coloring; mere listing of ingredients or contents;
(b) Ideas, plans, methods, systems, or devices, as distinguished from the particular manner in which they are expressed or described in a writing;
(c) Blank forms, such as time cards, graph paper, account books, diaries, bank checks, scorecards, address books, report forms, order forms and the like, which are designed for recording information and do not in themselves convey information;
(d) Works consisting entirely of information that is common property containing no original authorship, such as, for example: Standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, schedules of sporting events, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources.
(e) Typeface as typeface.
----------
906 - uncopyrightable material. Including some highlights http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf (http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf)
906.1 Common Geometric Shapes
The Copyright Act does not protect common geometric shapes, either in twodimensional or three-dimensional form. There are numerous common geometric shapes, including, without limitation, straight or curved lines, circles, ovals, spheres, triangles, cones, squares, squares, cubes, rectangles, diamonds, trapezoids, parallelograms, pentagons, hexagons, heptagons, octagons, and decagons. Generally, the U.S. Copyright Office will not register a work that merely consists of common geometric shapes unless the author’s use of those shapes results in a work that, as a whole, is sufficiently creative.
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs
Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J). A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.
906.3:
Mere coloration or mere variations in coloring alone are not eligible for copyright
protection. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a).
Merely adding or changing one or relatively few colors in a work, or combining expected
or familiar pairs or sets of colors is not copyrightable, regardless of whether the changes
are made by hand, computer, or some other process. This is the case even if the
coloration makes a work more aesthetically pleasing or commercially valuable. For
example, the Office will not register a visual art work if the author merely added
relatively few colors to a preexisting design or simply created multiple colorized
versions of the same basic design. Copyright Registration for Colorized Versions of Black
and White Motion Pictures, 52 Fed. Reg. 23,443, 23,444 (June 22, 1987). Likewise, the
Office generally will not register a visual art work if the author merely applied colors to
aid in the visual display of a graph, chart, table, device, or other article.
906.8:
Functional and Useful Elements
The copyright law does not protect useful articles, utilitarian designs, or any functional
portion of a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work. However, the decorative
ornamentation on a useful article may be registrable if it is separable from the
functional aspects of that article. For example, a lamp is a considered a useful article,
because it has an intrinsic utilitarian function, namely, to provide lighting. By contrast, a
three-dimensional floral design affixed to the base of a lamp or a two-dimensional
garden design painted on a lamp shade does not have a useful purpose. The U.S.
Copyright Office may register those design elements if they are separable from the
functional aspects of the lamp and if they are sufficiently original and creative. Fabrica,
Inc. v. El Dorado Corp., 697 F.2d 890, 893 (9th Cir. 1983) (“if an article has any intrinsic
utilitarian function, it can be denied copyright protection except to the extent that its
artistic features can be identified separately and are capable of existing independently
as a work of art”).
Change the font to cherry and its all perfect :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZzWDX7V.png)
Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".Show Image(http://41.media.tumblr.com/981b9455b35ca551cbfd2227110b9da2/tumblr_mhgcs6PtMw1qgbu2uo1_1280.png)
To solve the icon/symbol ownership issue, and to cease the discussion towards "stolen art" even though the only art I ever used on an actual real production project without giving credit to the creator was PuLSE's logo, I have now bought the complete license to all of the icons linked by lucaslink in this thread plus the entire database of icons from The Noun Project.
I now have unlimited license to use the following icons:
• Leaf;
• Cosmonaut;
• Planet Earth;
• PuLSE's Logo;
• and every other icon that's featured on The Noun Project database.
I actually bought the premium membership, so I can download and use absolutely all of the icons (over 150,000 icons) displayed on the site without having to give credit to their respective creators, even for commercial use, reproduction and modification. Absolute and complete license. I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was. You can pay $1,99 for each icon that you want or pay $9,99 for a monthly membership that can be canceled at any time. I chose the latter since my college will make good use of this account (and they are funding it anyway).
https://thenounproject.com/accounts/pricing/#
My position towards color schemes protection (and not ownership) remain and I'd like to hear back from Signature Plastics and other people's civil opinion about that.
Change the font to cherry and its all perfect :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZzWDX7V.png)
Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".Show Image(http://41.media.tumblr.com/981b9455b35ca551cbfd2227110b9da2/tumblr_mhgcs6PtMw1qgbu2uo1_1280.png)
Change the font to cherry and its all perfect :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZzWDX7V.png)
Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".Show Image(http://41.media.tumblr.com/981b9455b35ca551cbfd2227110b9da2/tumblr_mhgcs6PtMw1qgbu2uo1_1280.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fBWPcOY.png)
So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!
What happens if someone submits new paperwork / art for an existing colorway, naming it something else and either changing or eliminating novelties?
My question originally started with the policies of SP specifically. What has been said explicitly is that SP will remove the set from regular production if requested. They have not explicitly stated beyond that as far as I'm aware which is why my question came up.
1. You can not copyright, trademark, or patent a color scheme unless it is combined with other distinctive elements that, together, form a corporate identity (e.g., magenta and orange, with the right typeface, combine to form the Dunkin' Donuts "identity"). It is possible that the graphics for individual keys could be copyrighted, but that protection would not extend to the set as a whole, and certainly not the color scheme.
*Not all keysets will be produced; production decisions are made at the discretion of the Pimp My Keyboard team.
Hey guys, here is an idea that I've been having for a while, you know I am a music engineer who spends lots of times a day looking my computer screen producing songs. I thought it would be a good idea to have a keyset inspired by sound, which I called "Wave". Wave features an energetic color scheme featuring black Alphas and bright green modifiers. It will remind you of sound editors like Adobe AuditionShow Image(http://s3.amazonaws.com/pbblogassets/uploads/2012/12/Adobe-Audition.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GG9Z4Og.png)
Change the font to cherry and its all perfect :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZzWDX7V.png)
Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".Show Image(http://41.media.tumblr.com/981b9455b35ca551cbfd2227110b9da2/tumblr_mhgcs6PtMw1qgbu2uo1_1280.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fBWPcOY.png)
So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!
ISO please
I don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SSiA8dv.gif)I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png (http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png) godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nhuvKoW.gif)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UZppjpV.gif)
Now, we are speaking about custom ABS and PBT keycaps manufactured by a company (Signature Plastics), which may or may not produce a keyset if they consider it appropiate:Quote*Not all keysets will be produced; production decisions are made at the discretion of the Pimp My Keyboard team.
Source (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/pages.php?pageid=8)
Signature Plastics has the last word. If they consider that a new keycap set is too similar to a previous one, or simply dislike it!, they decide whether it will produced or not regardless of what any of us could say
Change the font to cherry and its all perfect :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZzWDX7V.png)
Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".Show Image(http://41.media.tumblr.com/981b9455b35ca551cbfd2227110b9da2/tumblr_mhgcs6PtMw1qgbu2uo1_1280.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fBWPcOY.png)
So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!
ISO please
Your wish is my pleasure -Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2yDJBLq.png)
Also why isn't this just sold as the standard kit - full ANSI/ISO compatibility.
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.0;topicseen
It went to GB phase but was then put on hold.
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.0;topicseen
It went to GB phase but was then put on hold.
What was the backlash?
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.0;topicseen
It went to GB phase but was then put on hold.
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.0;topicseen
It went to GB phase but was then put on hold.
Ignoring the color scheme issues, that set went to the GB stage with major mistakes that should have been fixed during the IC stage…
- ISO kit didn't have a 1.25 Shift
- Listing 6.5 Space bars when they aren't manufactured
- Tsangan features a 1.25U shift and 1.75U but no 2.25U shift, which is weird.
In addition, there wasn't a list of the people who ordered the set, or a price list indicating how many kits of each child deal had been ordered.
For reference:
Source A (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48214.0)
Source B (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78489.0)
SP does have the last word but, given their lack of concern with producing Space Cadet twice, both of which were from community sources, not to mention multiple other classic set runs, I've yet to see anything stating explicitly that sets are protected and what those protections are.
They have produced sets with plenty of similarities to each other so I remain skeptical that any colorway protection is offered at all should someone else submit a request.
SP does have the last word but, given their lack of concern with producing Space Cadet twice, both of which were from community sources, not to mention multiple other classic set runs, I've yet to see anything stating explicitly that sets are protected and what those protections are.
They have produced sets with plenty of similarities to each other so I remain skeptical that any colorway protection is offered at all should someone else submit a request.
SP does have the last word but, given their lack of concern with producing Space Cadet twice, both of which were from community sources, not to mention multiple other classic set runs, I've yet to see anything stating explicitly that sets are protected and what those protections are.
They have produced sets with plenty of similarities to each other so I remain skeptical that any colorway protection is offered at all should someone else submit a request.
I'm just not convinced that we have seen a compelling test case yet. Sets like Symbiosis, Space Cadet, and Dolch have origins that pre-date the modern keycap phenomenon, so designers of sets like those aren't going to be accorded any sense of ownership by SP. However, just wait until someone other than Matt3o tries to use the Skull Squadron colorway for another set, even without any novelties. How much do you want to bet it would never get past SP's gatekeepers?
As I mentioned before, SP has no problem offering a DSA dyesub set with the same colors and the same font as granite.
Have they ever actually stoped any sets from being produced by this reason?
(I designed that silly little Jukebox SA set, just for reference)
(I designed that silly little Jukebox SA set, just for reference)
Currently using Jukebox. Can confirm: is silly.
I agree 100% with you livingspeedbump.
Here is my serious, no ****post opinion:
1 to 1 copy is unacceptable and will be stopped anyway. Close 'copies', 'replicas', 'knockoffs' & so on will be stopped if the community as a whole disagree - but if they aren't that close and look like a different set then the creator won't be stopped. Only the manufacturer can stop it.
Artisans have been copied, kind of the same thing if a creator considers a keyset as their art. Color on it's own, when similar, are fine. Copying 'custom' logos etc are unacceptable without the original creators permission.
Politics, legal stuff and ****ty behaviour will just create more cow.
I agree 100% with you livingspeedbump.
1 to 1 copy is unacceptable and will be stopped anyway. Close 'copies', 'replicas', 'knockoffs' & so on will be stopped if the community as a whole disagree - but if they aren't that close and look like a different set then the creator won't be stopped. Only the manufacturer can stop it.
Since you mentioned I'd like to give my input towards this subject, even though you asked OP and not me.
Taking PuLSE as an example, it featured black/cyan text legended alphas and modifiers with Signature Plastics' font. It also featured aqua and blue novelty keycaps with specific and customized icons. Any other sets that eventually present any of the above mentioned features is essentially (and consequentially) copying PuLSE and the concepts that define it as a custom keyset created by myself and therefore should not go through their system nor be allowed to happen without my strict permission. The premise is that such colorway, applied on keycaps created and manufactured by Signature Plastics is a design concept that I created. This logic obviously can't be applied to complex industrial manufactured products, due to their very detailed patent registration nature, but since we are discussing about a product that is defined by it's artistic appeal and belongs to a very specific niche (keyboard enthusiasts), such logic could be easily comprehended and be applied in my perception.
This is my perspective and I believe it should be taken into consideration given that, for many reasons, me and the Ctrl.Alt team are in the eye of this discussion. Mostly due to the popularity of projects created by us before new implementations and policies from Signature Plastics took place.
Perhaps I should have mentioned BBQ/NN instead of Aqua-Cyan/Black?
Because when I speak about colorway protection, I'm speaking directly about 1:1 replications. I don't have absolutely any problems with Keyboard & Co. (even though it looks like PuLSE inverted), for example. My problem with Dusk was that the keyset wasn't nowhere near an original or creative idea, but a very close 1:1 partially done and bad presented replication of Calm Depths...
I believe that some people care about that, otherwise we would had Penumbra 2 made by somebody else instead of Ctrl.Alt. Note that the set doesn't have graphic novelties and it's a pure combination of colors and legends (and one of the most likable ones, since the set is pretty popular). It's a very well made set and I don't think it should be reproduced by anyone other than Ctrl.Alt. One can be lead to believe that Godspeed/Cospar is a set that resembles Penumbra, but so does Jukebox with it's beige accents. Jukebox however has its own theme (like Godspeed/Cospar) and therefore is a completely different project. Note that none of the sets share color chips, if you are speaking about manufacturing.
Should people be able to replicate whatever set they want without any rules? What kind of anarchy is that, of course not.
This obviuosuly is an extremely arbitrary judgement, which I highly doubt others share with me, but since you asked, it's what I think.
MiTo reminds me a little of Disney. Disney gleefully and shamelessly mines the public domain works of past masters, like Alexandre Dumas, while seeing to it that nothing they create ever falls into the public domain, where I contend anything of real cultural importance belongs at some point.
I think that no matter how absurd the notion of "colorway ownership" actually is, it will be granted to those designers who are in favor with the community (Matt3o, for example), and denied to those who aren't. There will be little consistency to the matter because there is nothing formal or legal about such granted ownership.
Lots of proposed sets will die in IC for a variety of reasons, with colorway similarity being only one of them. And colorway similarity won't be the only silly reason a proposed set will get shot down either. One thing I am learning is that the process of getting community approval for a new set is almost Kafka-esque, and that navigating through all the potential (political) pitfalls is perhaps the hardest part of it (not the actual design work).
reruns sap the community's interest in new sets, so if we were running Pulse/Calm Depths/Penumbra all the time no new sets would get into the queue. I think this probably held more true a couple years ago than it does now -- tons and tons of GBs are getting produced every year, through GMK/SP/JTK/etc, and the community's still growing.
There are infinite combinations and themes to be explored.
reruns sap the community's interest in new sets, so if we were running Pulse/Calm Depths/Penumbra all the time no new sets would get into the queue. I think this probably held more true a couple years ago than it does now -- tons and tons of GBs are getting produced every year, through GMK/SP/JTK/etc, and the community's still growing.
This is the exact reason about why PuL2E won't happen. Not exclusivity bull**** like many used to think in the past, including me, before both communities blew on size. At the end of the day, I believe we should create new things and keep the creativity ball rolling. No reason to repeat things just because people want or can afford them. People need to learn how to appreciate things without the desperate need of possession and obsession in my opinion. Just wait, as sooner or later something of your taste will pop up. There are infinite combinations and themes to be explored.
Same for artisans, in my opinion
All that matters is what Signature Plastics says and they don't seem to post here much anymore.I bet when they come back they will be super happy this lovely discussion is in their subforum!
Not exclusivity bull**** like many used to think in the past, including me, before both communities blew on size.
I agree with the bolded a lot, but - I also don't feel any need to force other people into compliance with my philosophies. If others want to go down the Pygmalion path, that's up to them.
reruns sap the community's interest in new sets, so if we were running Pulse/Calm Depths/Penumbra all the time no new sets would get into the queue. I think this probably held more true a couple years ago than it does now -- tons and tons of GBs are getting produced every year, through GMK/SP/JTK/etc, and the community's still growing.
This is the exact reason about why PuL2E won't happen. Not exclusivity bull**** like many used to think in the past, including me, before both communities blew on size. At the end of the day, I believe we should create new things and keep the creativity ball rolling. No reason to repeat things just because people want or can afford them. People need to learn how to appreciate things without the desperate need of possession and obsession in my opinion. Just wait, as sooner or later something of your taste will pop up. There are infinite combinations and themes to be explored.
Same for artisans, in my opinion
How, exactly, is someone supposed to appreciate new sets they don't like when the one(s) they really love can't be purchased (new) anymore?
I have a friend who is new to all this and he has this vision in his mind for his perfect keyboard. It requires the Honeywell keys form 7bit to make it happen. No other set has the colors he needs, in all the necessary keyboard positions, and in SA format. For him, none of the proposed sets in any of the ICs out there will do him any good. Telling him to appreciate the diversity of sets and colorways that can play absolutely no role in making his custom keyboard vision come to life is not only useless, it is patronizing.
I think it helps to put oneself into the shoes of a newcomer, who has never been privvy to the history of this community and has missed out on all the previous group buys. These notions of exclusivity and exclusive control are helpful to only those who already have what they want, are bored, and can only get it up for the invigorating promise of sets yet to be.
As long as this notion of constantly moving forward, and thumbing ones noses at future customers who long for a set from the past prevails, there will always be incentive to recreate those sets of the past, or at the very least their colorways. If the demand is strong enough, then the PuLSE colorway will find its way back into production, without the PuLSE icon keys, and at that point MiTo's desire to keep it from ever resurfacing will be sheer futility.
The more you tighten your grip, MiTo, the more colorways will slip through your fingers... ;)
How, exactly, is someone supposed to appreciate new sets they don't like when the one(s) they really love can't be purchased (new) anymore?
I have a friend who is new to all this and he has this vision in his mind for his perfect keyboard. It requires the Honeywell keys form 7bit to make it happen. No other set has the colors he needs, in all the necessary keyboard positions, and in SA format. For him, none of the proposed sets in any of the ICs out there will do him any good. Telling him to appreciate the diversity of sets and colorways that can play absolutely no role in making his custom keyboard vision come to life is not only useless, it is patronizing.
I think it helps to put oneself into the shoes of a newcomer, who has never been privvy to the history of this community and has missed out on all the previous group buys. These notions of exclusivity and exclusive control are helpful to only those who already have what they want, are bored, and can only get it up for the invigorating promise of sets yet to be.
As long as this notion of constantly moving forward, and thumbing ones noses at future customers who long for a set from the past prevails, there will always be incentive to recreate those sets of the past, or at the very least their colorways. If the demand is strong enough, then the PuLSE colorway will find its way back into production, without the PuLSE icon keys, and at that point MiTo's desire to keep it from ever resurfacing will be sheer futility.
The more you tighten your grip, MiTo, the more colorways will slip through your fingers... ;)
I am not entirely sure how you worded this, so don't take offense if i misinterpreted what you were saying here.
But as I see it I would disagree a bit and say that new people arent actually entitled to any of the past sets that were run. Personally, I am trying to make mine available to them when possible, but this may not be the case for all designers. Also, keep in mind that many of us were around for years before Round 5 came out, for example, and waited a few more years to get it. So instant gratification and keyboard related group buys just never go hand in hand.
I don't disagree with the sentiment though, I do want to make things available to new members to the community, but just keep in mind that it takes a lot of time, regardless.
How, exactly, is someone supposed to appreciate new sets they don't like when the one(s) they really love can't be purchased (new) anymore?
I have a friend who is new to all this and he has this vision in his mind for his perfect keyboard. It requires the Honeywell keys form 7bit to make it happen. No other set has the colors he needs, in all the necessary keyboard positions, and in SA format. For him, none of the proposed sets in any of the ICs out there will do him any good. Telling him to appreciate the diversity of sets and colorways that can play absolutely no role in making his custom keyboard vision come to life is not only useless, it is patronizing.
I think it helps to put oneself into the shoes of a newcomer, who has never been privvy to the history of this community and has missed out on all the previous group buys. These notions of exclusivity and exclusive control are helpful to only those who already have what they want, are bored, and can only get it up for the invigorating promise of sets yet to be.
As long as this notion of constantly moving forward, and thumbing ones noses at future customers who long for a set from the past prevails, there will always be incentive to recreate those sets of the past, or at the very least their colorways. If the demand is strong enough, then the PuLSE colorway will find its way back into production, without the PuLSE icon keys, and at that point MiTo's desire to keep it from ever resurfacing will be sheer futility.
The more you tighten your grip, MiTo, the more colorways will slip through your fingers... ;)
I am not entirely sure how you worded this, so don't take offense if i misinterpreted what you were saying here.
But as I see it I would disagree a bit and say that new people arent actually entitled to any of the past sets that were run. Personally, I am trying to make mine available to them when possible, but this may not be the case for all designers. Also, keep in mind that many of us were around for years before Round 5 came out, for example, and waited a few more years to get it. So instant gratification and keyboard related group buys just never go hand in hand.
I don't disagree with the sentiment though, I do want to make things available to new members to the community, but just keep in mind that it takes a lot of time, regardless.
Nobody is entitled to anything, but to artificially prevent supply from even coming close to meeting demand is the thing that bothers me (and presumably zslane and his friend). Especially with something such as keysets, that are clearly very industrial in their scale.
The sentiment is shared with artisan caps, but the lines are blurred because very few artisan caps are produced on such a scale (and being works of art, the intentions of the artist are different).
That said, I agree with LSB too - I joined this community with nothing, and the only reason I have what I do have is because I've been around long enough to just happen to acquire the keysets and such. BUT, I cannot (and do not) expect newcomers to invest 3 years just to hope to cross paths with their dream keyset.
This really gets at the root of the community vs hobby discussion. As this hobby grows, the number of people "passing through" and hoping to deck out their boards increases rapidly, while the number of people that invest themselves fully in the community increases much slower. I am obviously a bigger fan of the latter, but we cannot fault these keyboarders that simply want shiny trinkets for their keyboards - especially since we are all that way with other hobbies. ;)
Anyway, I digress. I'm pretty sure I meant to make a point in there somewhere. :confused:
How, exactly, is someone supposed to appreciate new sets they don't like when the one(s) they really love can't be purchased (new) anymore?
I have a friend who is new to all this and he has this vision in his mind for his perfect keyboard. It requires the Honeywell keys form 7bit to make it happen. No other set has the colors he needs, in all the necessary keyboard positions, and in SA format. For him, none of the proposed sets in any of the ICs out there will do him any good. Telling him to appreciate the diversity of sets and colorways that can play absolutely no role in making his custom keyboard vision come to life is not only useless, it is patronizing.
I think it helps to put oneself into the shoes of a newcomer, who has never been privvy to the history of this community and has missed out on all the previous group buys. These notions of exclusivity and exclusive control are helpful to only those who already have what they want, are bored, and can only get it up for the invigorating promise of sets yet to be.
As long as this notion of constantly moving forward, and thumbing ones noses at future customers who long for a set from the past prevails, there will always be incentive to recreate those sets of the past, or at the very least their colorways. If the demand is strong enough, then the PuLSE colorway will find its way back into production, without the PuLSE icon keys, and at that point MiTo's desire to keep it from ever resurfacing will be sheer futility.
The more you tighten your grip, MiTo, the more colorways will slip through your fingers... ;)
I am not entirely sure how you worded this, so don't take offense if i misinterpreted what you were saying here.
But as I see it I would disagree a bit and say that new people arent actually entitled to any of the past sets that were run. Personally, I am trying to make mine available to them when possible, but this may not be the case for all designers. Also, keep in mind that many of us were around for years before Round 5 came out, for example, and waited a few more years to get it. So instant gratification and keyboard related group buys just never go hand in hand.
I don't disagree with the sentiment though, I do want to make things available to new members to the community, but just keep in mind that it takes a lot of time, regardless.
Nobody is entitled to anything, but to artificially prevent supply from even coming close to meeting demand is the thing that bothers me (and presumably zslane and his friend). Especially with something such as keysets, that are clearly very industrial in their scale.
The sentiment is shared with artisan caps, but the lines are blurred because very few artisan caps are produced on such a scale (and being works of art, the intentions of the artist are different).
That said, I agree with LSB too - I joined this community with nothing, and the only reason I have what I do have is because I've been around long enough to just happen to acquire the keysets and such. BUT, I cannot (and do not) expect newcomers to invest 3 years just to hope to cross paths with their dream keyset.
This really gets at the root of the community vs hobby discussion. As this hobby grows, the number of people "passing through" and hoping to deck out their boards increases rapidly, while the number of people that invest themselves fully in the community increases much slower. I am obviously a bigger fan of the latter, but we cannot fault these keyboarders that simply want shiny trinkets for their keyboards - especially since we are all that way with other hobbies. ;)
Anyway, I digress. I'm pretty sure I meant to make a point in there somewhere. :confused:
Oh yeah, I 110% agree. Not running a set to make it rare and exclusive is dumb and benefits the community none. I don't know of a single reason not to run a keyset again, if there is interest. Sure, waiting to run it until there is a significant amount of interest, or waiting on the time to be right is a must, but just simply not running it again when people want it, is dumb. I'll let my sets run in one way or another as long as people have a desire for them and I can facilitate a way to have them made.
No comment on the artisan thing haha, that is an exhausting topic at times. But yeah, different story than keycap sets entirely imo.
Its an odd thing with newcomers though. I really do want to encourage them to get involved, and stick around and really get invested in the community, though more often than not they are "moving through." In the end they probably will have to pay a lot more if they want that "instant gratification" or very specifically want a certain set. Heck, there are sets I've still not been able to acquire after years that I've looked for (looking at your Viper's current set :rolleyes: ) haha
Dammit LSB, if you run another Jukebox group buy I won't be able to sell this set for $300.
Dammit LSB, if you run another Jukebox group buy I won't be able to sell this set for $300.
Sell now then! Cause it ain't so far away :rolleyes:
Dammit LSB, if you run another Jukebox group buy I won't be able to sell this set for $300.
Sell now then! Cause it ain't so far away :rolleyes:
Jukebox R2 confirmed for tomorrow. Selling set for $197 before the market crashes.
Dammit LSB, if you run another Jukebox group buy I won't be able to sell this set for $300.
Sell now then! Cause it ain't so far away :rolleyes:
Jukebox R2 confirmed for tomorrow. Selling set for $197 before the market crashes.
You got a few weeks to ditch that old set :p
Yeah, being able to purchase something which is produced (by machine, mind you) and sold to the general public isn't something I would call an entitlement. It is simply commerce.
For a lot of folks, keycaps are just products they buy to make their keyboards prettier. They are probably not even be aware of the time and effort it takes to design these sets. But they are willing to pay for the priviledge of having them just the same. Only a fool turns down their money over disapproval of the casual level of their participation in the hobby.
Moreover, I feel it is patently unfair to expect future buyers to be welcomed into the hobby by relegating past sets into the exclusive realm of collectors, when all it takes to make the keysets available again is to allocate a slot in SP's manufacturing schedule and flip a switch. For all the heavily involved members of the community who helped shepherd a set from concept to reality, the reward for that involvement was the fun of participation and the satisfaction of having a voice during development. The idea that a further reward should be the right to turn it into a collector's item is a more chilling example of entitlement, in my view.
But that is all rather tangential to the subject of colorway ownership. I apologize for the threat derailment.
Once my Round 5a(6) sets arrive, I will have a PuLSE set up for sale if anyone is interested...
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QuoteMaterial Provided to Us or Posted On or Through the Site
We do not claim ownership of any content, application or other material that you or third parties provide to us (including feedback and suggestions) or post, upload, input or submit on or through the Site, including our blog pages, message boards, chat rooms and forums, for review by the general public, registered users of the Site or by the members of any public or private community (“Submission”) and we are not responsible for their content, accuracy or compliance with relevant laws or regulations. However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting (“Posting”) your Submission you grant us and sub-licensees a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, non-exclusive right and license to display, publish and otherwise use your Submission in any format in connection with the operation of our respective businesses (including, without limitation, the Site). There is no obligation on our part to display or otherwise use any Submission you may provide, and we may remove any Submission at any time as our sole discretion. By Posting a Submission, you also warrant and represent that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to your Submission including, without limitation, all the rights necessary for granting the permission specified above.
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The only possible thing you anyone MIGHT own is artwork being submitted as a legend. Even then, they have permission to reproduce it at will. You do not own **** regarding colorways. Technically, I could start a group buy through their system using Pulse exact color chips, family, and font provided it wasn't a user submitted font. Guess what MiTo, you couldn't stop me.
Yeah, being able to purchase something which is produced (by machine, mind you) and sold to the general public isn't something I would call an entitlement. It is simply commerce.
For a lot of folks, keycaps are just products they buy to make their keyboards prettier. They are probably not even be aware of the time and effort it takes to design these sets. But they are willing to pay for the priviledge of having them just the same. Only a fool turns down their money over disapproval of the casual level of their participation in the hobby.
Moreover, I feel it is patently unfair to expect future buyers to be welcomed into the hobby by relegating past sets into the exclusive realm of collectors, when all it takes to make the keysets available again is to allocate a slot in SP's manufacturing schedule and flip a switch. For all the heavily involved members of the community who helped shepherd a set from concept to reality, the reward for that involvement was the fun of participation and the satisfaction of having a voice during development. The idea that a further reward should be the right to turn it into a collector's item is a more chilling example of entitlement, in my view.
But that is all rather tangential to the subject of colorway ownership. I apologize for the threat derailment.
Well, you do realize how long it takes to even get a set made by PMK at this point even after the order is placed right? Months, at the very least. So they still aren't like a lot of retail items that you can just quickly get made when you run out.
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The only possible thing you anyone MIGHT own is artwork being submitted as a legend. Even then, they have permission to reproduce it at will. You do not own **** regarding colorways. Technically, I could start a group buy through their system using Pulse exact color chips, family, and font provided it wasn't a user submitted font. Guess what MiTo, you couldn't stop me.
Thank you for actually reading the Terms and Conditions. I wonder how long PMK has been looking at this thread and just saying, "I wish these idiots would just read our damn Terms of Service." It answers the thread question in no uncertain terms.
@livingspeedbump and @hoffmanmyster -- ditto.
Respect can be a tricky thing. In this context, having others respect a set you put together is something that is earned. Trying to lock it down by claiming ownership is IMHO naïve and defeats the purpose of earning respect.
The set will not run again whether you guys want it, agree with it, like it or not.
It's my idea and I developed it. The only one who can discuss this with me is the manufacturer. That's the plain simple truth. I said since my first day here that my sets would be solo run for the sake of creativity and it's not my fault if many of you are that fat kid in the playground who can't hear and accept "no" as answer.
Other people running again? I don't think so, nowadays there are royalties and very complicate and delicate factors involved. Factors that should be discussed designer-manufacturer directly.
If I ever feel like running the set again, then I'll do it. Perhaps as a tribute to the community and people who like it, or maybe an humanitarian cause. To the day, my will to create new things is the bigger than repeating old stuff. But maybe this can change who knows. Things are ever changing in life.
Respect my decision as the creator of the keyset.
Stop the double standards and respect everyone equally.
But to hell with the people whose stuff youcopiedartistically interpretation.
I pmed both 7bit and BunnyLake for usage rights before even speaking with SP. Both individuals gave me full permission.
But you stated that you didn't pay for the rights of the membership until after, which means you were in violation when you submitted the work.
But you stated that you didn't pay for the rights of the membership until after, which means you were in violation when you submitted the work.
:thumb:
And if you are so worried about that, delete you GeekHack account
I never stated that neither. Again feel free to prove otherwise.But you stated that you didn't pay for the rights of the membership until after, which means you were in violation when you submitted the work.:thumb:
I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was.
But you stated that you didn't pay for the rights of the membership until after, which means you were in violation when you submitted the work.
:thumb:
I never stated that neither. Again feel free to prove otherwise.
To solve the icon/symbol ownership issue, and to cease the discussion towards "stolen art" even though the only art I ever used on an actual real production project without giving credit to the creator was PuLSE's logo, I have now bought the complete license to all of the icons linked by lucaslink in this thread plus the entire database of icons from The Noun Project.
I now have unlimited license to use the following icons:
• Leaf;
• Cosmonaut;
• Planet Earth;
• PuLSE's Logo;
• and every other icon that's featured on The Noun Project database.
I actually bought the premium membership, so I can download and use absolutely all of the icons (over 150,000 icons) displayed on the site without having to give credit to their respective creators, even for commercial use, reproduction and modification. Absolute and complete license. I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was. You can pay $1,99 for each icon that you want or pay $9,99 for a monthly membership that can be canceled at any time. I chose the latter since my college will make good use of this account (and they are funding it anyway).
https://thenounproject.com/accounts/pricing/#
My position towards color schemes protection (and not ownership) remain and I'd like to hear back from Signature Plastics and other people's civil opinion about that.
Maaaaan, now I want Pizza Hut.
And I have a strong urge to delete my geekhack account...
Must...resist...
But you stated that you didn't pay for the rights of the membership until after, which means you were in violation when you submitted the work.
:thumb:
I never stated that neither. Again feel free to prove otherwise.
Okay.To solve the icon/symbol ownership issue, and to cease the discussion towards "stolen art" even though the only art I ever used on an actual real production project without giving credit to the creator was PuLSE's logo, I have now bought the complete license to all of the icons linked by lucaslink in this thread plus the entire database of icons from The Noun Project.
I now have unlimited license to use the following icons:
• Leaf;
• Cosmonaut;
• Planet Earth;
• PuLSE's Logo;
• and every other icon that's featured on The Noun Project database.
I actually bought the premium membership, so I can download and use absolutely all of the icons (over 150,000 icons) displayed on the site without having to give credit to their respective creators, even for commercial use, reproduction and modification. Absolute and complete license. I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was. You can pay $1,99 for each icon that you want or pay $9,99 for a monthly membership that can be canceled at any time. I chose the latter since my college will make good use of this account (and they are funding it anyway).
https://thenounproject.com/accounts/pricing/#
My position towards color schemes protection (and not ownership) remain and I'd like to hear back from Signature Plastics and other people's civil opinion about that.
Next?
I never stated that neither. Again feel free to prove otherwise.But you stated that you didn't pay for the rights of the membership until after, which means you were in violation when you submitted the work.:thumb:I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was.
:blank:
:'( No turning back from this...
I'll miss you guys.
/me deletes his geekhack account
Maaaaan, now I want Pizza Hut.
And I have a strong urge to delete my geekhack account...
Must...resist...
:'( No turning back from this...
I'll miss you guys.
/me deletes his geekhack account
:'( No turning back from this...
I'll miss you guys.
/me deletes his geekhack account
It should be noted that Rowdy actually does own Yellow.
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We shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor Submissions to determine compliance with these Terms and Conditions and any operating rules we establish and to satisfy any law, regulation or authorized government request. We shall have the right in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any Submission.
The only possible thing you anyone MIGHT own is artwork being submitted as a legend. Even then, they have permission to reproduce it at will. You do not own **** regarding colorways. Technically, I could start a group buy through their system using Pulse exact color chips, family, and font provided it wasn't a user submitted font. Guess what MiTo, you couldn't stop me.
Thank you for actually reading the Terms and Conditions. I wonder how long PMK has been looking at this thread and just saying, "I wish these idiots would just read our damn Terms of Service." It answers the thread question in no uncertain terms.
If I'm not mistaken, Oobly is working with SP to amend those terms precisely because it offers no recognition/assignment of ownership of original design work. It is his feeling that no serious designer would agree to those terms and conditions, and if he is right and he is successful in his efforts, you will see changes in the not too distant future.
Who wants pulse? I don't give a **** about the set myself but if people want it I'll run it.
dead serious
1 person is enough interest for me. I'll begin working on it while I'm at work Keepo
Who wants pulse? I don't give a **** about the set myself but if people want it I'll run it.
dead serious
1 person is enough interest for me. I'll begin working on it while I'm at work Keepo
Who wants pulse? I don't give a **** about the set myself but if people want it I'll run it.
dead serious
Side note: your pulse icon looks like a QRS trace, did you ask for permission to use that? I doubt it, because no one ones the concept.Such icon is a letter "M" meant to represent my nickname on this forum even though it resembles a QRS trace. It looks vibrant and full of energy, like myself, so I decided to name the set "PuLSE".
Well this was a interesting read, looks like mito contradicts himself a lot in regards to having made the icons and having rights to use them, personally I think this is all a bit silly and you (mito) should be happy people want to reproduce your set rather than being salty as you are about it, just means you made something people want so let them have it.
I'm figuring something out about Pulse since the community likes the set so much.
[...]
Perhaps due to the set's popularity, my decision of a single run is clearly falling apart.
Like you said, I made (with the help of many other members and Signsture Plastics) a very successful keyset that people love. [...] But I was the pioneer on applying such colors on SA, because I thought that combining a futuristic color scheme with a retro/vintage profile would be a good idea. Bear in mind that the only SA sets that existed by the time all featured a classic/straight look, like Penumbra and 7bits'. None of the currently existing SA sets were aggressive/swaggy/goofy like Pulse. This is not a backhanded insult like many elders like to say (if you read this Mr. Lake, Nubb and Co. I have the utmost respect for Penumbra and 7bits' as they are true legends in this community). Some people don't like Pulse, me included, but the vast majority of people love it and they want it.
But I have a good idea and people like it, they would be happy if I developed it even further.
And at the end of the day people just want to have nice things.
Some people don't like Pulse, me included
Some people don't like Pulse, me included
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
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We do not claim ownership of any content, application or other material that you or third parties provide to us (including feedback and suggestions) or post, upload, input or submit on or through the Site, including our blog pages, message boards, chat rooms and forums, for review by the general public, registered users of the Site or by the members of any public or private community (“Submission”) and we are not responsible for their content, accuracy or compliance with relevant laws or regulations. However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting (“Posting”) your Submission you grant us and sub-licensees a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, non-exclusive right and license to display, publish and otherwise use your Submission in any format in connection with the operation of our respective businesses (including, without limitation, the Site). There is no obligation on our part to display or otherwise use any Submission you may provide, and we may remove any Submission at any time as our sole discretion. By Posting a Submission, you also warrant and represent that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to your Submission including, without limitation, all the rights necessary for granting the permission specified above.
We shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor Submissions to determine compliance with these Terms and Conditions and any operating rules we establish and to satisfy any law, regulation or authorized government request. We shall have the right in our sole discretion to edit, refuse to post, or remove any Submission.
The only possible thing you anyone MIGHT own is artwork being submitted as a legend. Even then, they have permission to reproduce it at will. You do not own **** regarding colorways. Technically, I could start a group buy through their system using Pulse exact color chips, family, and font provided it wasn't a user submitted font. Guess what MiTo, you couldn't stop me.
Thank you for actually reading the Terms and Conditions. I wonder how long PMK has been looking at this thread and just saying, "I wish these idiots would just read our damn Terms of Service." It answers the thread question in no uncertain terms.
If I'm not mistaken, Oobly is working with SP to amend those terms precisely because it offers no recognition/assignment of ownership of original design work. It is his feeling that no serious designer would agree to those terms and conditions, and if he is right and he is successful in his efforts, you will see changes in the not too distant future.
Some people don't like Pulse, me included
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Some people don't like Pulse, me included
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
That's quite common…Kafka destroyed many of his works and stated several times that he disliked his writing.
I wish to resolve this issue. I shall buy the rights to Pulse.
Starting offer - $10 donated straight to an Asylum of your choice ;D
I'm seeing a whole lot of ego stroking and not much actual discussion here.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Technically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
I can't workout which is better, the wikipedia lawyers or Mito, this thread should be stickied in off topic
I'm seeing a whole lot of ego stroking and not much actual discussion here.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Because you see only what you want too see. I don't personally like the keyset for many reasons, despite of what you think and I won't waste my time explaining to you why.
Ego? I made a goddamn keyset, what's the big ****ing deal about it? I assembled colorful pieces of plastic together with a logo made by Nico and icons made by myself. What a great genius I am right?
I hope the French government buy a Pulse set and hang it on Louvre since I'm indeed a genius, a godlike creator of masterpieces. I'm coming to the conclusion that I deserve a spotlight in this community and perhaps even a moderation spot, since I'm such a great individual, an uttermost gifted and godlike visionary. Just imagine what Leonardo DaVinci, Picasso and even Abraham Lincoln would think if they ever had the chance to witness the greatness of the set? Too bad they are gone, because the Pulse keyset could have been the reason to a completely different and much better human society. If our ancestors had the chance to witness such a great set they could perhaps have invented the wheel on a much more functional shape. Even the flame of a fire would be cyan and black instead of the original color, if the electrons had the chance to spin around a Pulse set when the universe was created. Too bad it wasn't the case.
Give me a break dude. Go read what I said instead of what you think I said and give me a break.
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
I think I heard of a few others that were considering that color scheme (what a coincidence!). Might be worth coordinating with them?
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
I prefer the idea of my keyset; black and cyan with cyan mods, black alphas. gona call it Autism and do it through massdrop so i can reach all the poor Brazilians
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
I prefer the idea of my keyset; black and cyan with cyan mods, black alphas. gona call it Autism and do it through massdrop so i can reach all the poor Brazilians
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sifo is running it.
I am currently designing a novelty key for backspace and the legend will read "oMiT".
ubai?
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sifo is running it.
I am currently designing a novelty key for backspace and the legend will read "oMiT".
ubai?
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sifo is running it.
I am currently designing a novelty key for backspace and the legend will read "oMiT".
ubai?
mate ive got a link to these photoshop brushes im sure you can use in your set, dont worry about credditing anyone tho
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
Sifo is running it.
I am currently designing a novelty key for backspace and the legend will read "oMiT".
ubai?
mate ive got a link to these photoshop brushes im sure you can use in your set, dont worry about credditing anyone tho
Thank you!
oMiT will become a reality!
IM HERE FOR THE EGO STROKING
IM HERE FOR THE EGO STROKING
IM HERE FOR THE EGO STROKING
You're the best demik I ever met
IM HERE FOR THE EGO STROKING
You're the best demik I ever met
he's okay at best
Once my Round 5a(6) sets arrive, I will have a PuLSE set up for sale if anyone is interested...
IM HERE FOR THE EGO STROKING
You're the best demik I ever met
he's okay at best
Well he's the only demik I know, so the bar is pretty low
Okay as much as this thread has probably run its course, we have strayed quite far off topic (I'm guilty of this as well). Let's try to bring things back to the topic at hand (colorway ownership) or start a new thread to discuss this new keyset idea.
Sooooo who wants to help me get Eslup (my new keyset I'm designing) going? Thinking black and cyan would be a cool color scheme. Thoughts?
I prefer the idea of my keyset; black and cyan with cyan mods, black alphas. gona call it Autism and do it through massdrop so i can reach all the poor Brazilians
Okay as much as this thread has probably run its course, we have strayed quite far off topic (I'm guilty of this as well). Let's try to bring things back to the topic at hand (colorway ownership) or start a new thread to discuss this new keyset idea.
Back on topic
I've decided to raise my offer to $15 for any Asylum.
We'd be part of history!
Has any SP personnel responded to the actual question. This is how i feel they are reacting when entering this thred.Show Image(https://media.giphy.com/media/USNlL9p2fxY6Q/giphy.gif)
I get the debate here, but the only one who legitimately says yes or no in actually manufacturing the damn caps is SP. Why no answer yet?
I can't workout which is better, the wikipedia lawyers or Mito, this thread should be stickied in off topic
Okay as much as this thread has probably run its course, we have strayed quite far off topic (I'm guilty of this as well). Let's try to bring things back to the topic at hand (colorway ownership) or start a new thread to discuss this new keyset idea.
Back on topic
I've decided to raise my offer to $15 for any Asylum.
We'd be part of history!
If you actually wanted to do this would you have to buy the rights from Signature Plastics or Mito?
I can't workout which is better, the wikipedia lawyers or Mito, this thread should be stickied in off topic
I may not be a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.Okay as much as this thread has probably run its course, we have strayed quite far off topic (I'm guilty of this as well). Let's try to bring things back to the topic at hand (colorway ownership) or start a new thread to discuss this new keyset idea.
Back on topic
I've decided to raise my offer to $15 for any Asylum.
We'd be part of history!
If you actually wanted to do this would you have to buy the rights from Signature Plastics or Mito?
The way I see it, you don't need to ask anyone with regard to color combination, but with specific legends I believe you would have to get permission from the original creator. So for the "Pulse" M logo, we would have to get in touch with Nico if I am understanding this correctly.
Technically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I can't workout which is better, the wikipedia lawyers or Mito, this thread should be stickied in off topic
I may not be a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.Okay as much as this thread has probably run its course, we have strayed quite far off topic (I'm guilty of this as well). Let's try to bring things back to the topic at hand (colorway ownership) or start a new thread to discuss this new keyset idea.
Back on topic
I've decided to raise my offer to $15 for any Asylum.
We'd be part of history!
If you actually wanted to do this would you have to buy the rights from Signature Plastics or Mito?
The way I see it, you don't need to ask anyone with regard to color combination, but with specific legends I believe you would have to get permission from the original creator. So for the "Pulse" M logo, we would have to get in touch with Nico if I am understanding this correctly.
As a professional designer this is pretty much where I think the line is drawn, especially where a fairly limited color pallette is the only option. In reality, it's a fine line not pissing off a designer or the community by being "unoriginal" with a design so who owns what becomes irrelevant if you can't get buyers.
I find this conversation fascinating and frustrating at the same time -- which is how any discussion about art/creativity and commerce goes. Some artists focus on creating and moving on to the next project and others focus on retaining ownership and control once the work is released to the public.
Mito, you seem to be staunchly in the latter camp, which is a shame because I'd like to see you do new work and not just rehashing the past.
Additionally, the language you're using and the way you're going about "protecting" your work is only going to have the opposite effect because you're not just inviting, you're challenging someone to demonstrate that they're capable of duplicating your colorway. Nothing like giving a pack of nerds a challenge to prove you wrong to incite action.
Nothing like giving a pack of nerds a challenge to prove you wrong to incite action.
Nothing like giving a pack of nerds a challenge to prove you wrong to incite action.
What'd you call me?!? >:D
Nothing like giving a pack of nerds a challenge to prove you wrong to incite action.
What'd you call me?!? >:D
LOL! Birds of a feather my brother.
Technically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I don't think so. Citigroup has a logo, it's citi with the red arch between the I's.Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Citigroup.svg/1280px-Citigroup.svg.png)
But beyond that trademark, they also have protectable rights over something like this.Show Image(https://www.hoasted.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gradient-blue.jpg)
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2005506&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=documentSearch
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
Respect my decision as the creator of the keyset.
Ego? I made a goddamn keyset, what's the big ****ing deal about it? I assembled colorful pieces of plastic together with a logo made by Nico and icons made by myself. What a great genius I am right?
The community grew much more than we could predict, there are new people coming in everyday. And even though I have a very rigid philosophy about materialism I can't force my own philosophy down people's throats. What philosophy do I have? Well I'm a very minimalist person, I only have one board, a set of PBT blanks and a pair of artisans that arrived in the mail yesterday. I love to visually appreciate things (I have a huge album with pictures of all of you guys' caps and boards) but I don't feel the need of possession in the slightest. I know how to appreciate without the need of possession.
Technically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I don't think so. Citigroup has a logo, it's citi with the red arch between the I's.Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Citigroup.svg/1280px-Citigroup.svg.png)
But beyond that trademark, they also have protectable rights over something like this.Show Image(https://www.hoasted.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gradient-blue.jpg)
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2005506&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=documentSearch
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
You're confounding trade dress, which is capable of being trademarked as it is branding, with stuff that cannot be trademarked or copyrighted, like color ways.
I can't workout which is better, the wikipedia lawyers or Mito, this thread should be stickied in off topic
I may not be a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.Okay as much as this thread has probably run its course, we have strayed quite far off topic (I'm guilty of this as well). Let's try to bring things back to the topic at hand (colorway ownership) or start a new thread to discuss this new keyset idea.
Back on topic
I've decided to raise my offer to $15 for any Asylum.
We'd be part of history!
If you actually wanted to do this would you have to buy the rights from Signature Plastics or Mito?
The way I see it, you don't need to ask anyone with regard to color combination, but with specific legends I believe you would have to get permission from the original creator. So for the "Pulse" M logo, we would have to get in touch with Nico if I am understanding this correctly.
As a professional designer this is pretty much where I think the line is drawn, especially where a fairly limited color pallette is the only option. In reality, it's a fine line not pissing off a designer or the community by being "unoriginal" with a design so who owns what becomes irrelevant if you can't get buyers.
So what do you propose to do if a set designer is no longer around on the forums? Or a colorway hasn't been ran for say 2 or 3 years.
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
So would a basic Black and Cyan color but in this format be okay?Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/b/b1/HONEYB_TKL.png)
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
I admit confusion.
The first paragraph seems to imply that they have no issues re-running a set, while the second indicates that they will not re-run a "custom" set. Does custom mean that a user selected the color scheme from their palette of colors, or that the set must have been a true color match with unique resin as detailed in the first paragraph?
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
I admit confusion.
The first paragraph seems to imply that they have no issues re-running a set, while the second indicates that they will not re-run a "custom" set. Does custom mean that a user selected the color scheme from their palette of colors, or that the set must have been a true color match with unique resin as detailed in the first paragraph?
I read it as, if you come at them asking them to make Pulse again, they would say no unless MiTo said it was ok. But if you come at them with a design for a set identical to Pulse, minus the custom legends they would be fine with making it again.
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
I admit confusion.
The first paragraph seems to imply that they have no issues re-running a set, while the second indicates that they will not re-run a "custom" set. Does custom mean that a user selected the color scheme from their palette of colors, or that the set must have been a true color match with unique resin as detailed in the first paragraph?
I read it as, if you come at them asking them to make Pulse again, they would say no unless MiTo said it was ok. But if you come at them with a design for a set identical to Pulse, minus the custom legends they would be fine with making it again.
I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
I can assure you that it wasn't that way.
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
I admit confusion.
The first paragraph seems to imply that they have no issues re-running a set, while the second indicates that they will not re-run a "custom" set. Does custom mean that a user selected the color scheme from their palette of colors, or that the set must have been a true color match with unique resin as detailed in the first paragraph?
I read it as, if you come at them asking them to make Pulse again, they would say no unless MiTo said it was ok. But if you come at them with a design for a set identical to Pulse, minus the custom legends they would be fine with making it again.
This is how I interpreted as well.
I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
I can assure you that it wasn't that way.
I trust this guy, 100% sarcasm.
I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
I can assure you that it wasn't that way.
I trust this guy, 100% sarcasm.
I wasn't being sarcastic.
I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
PuLSE 2 doesn't need an explicit IC right now, people obviously want it so they will have it. A lot of people knew this already. It was even easter egged with the "Wait and Sea" joke on Reddit and some users followed the clues. I was hinting there all along, despite of what I've said here. We all knew from the beginning that nobody can possibly own a scheme.
My post from a couple of hours ago and even older posts clearly said that.
MoreTechnically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I don't think so. Citigroup has a logo, it's citi with the red arch between the I's.Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Citigroup.svg/1280px-Citigroup.svg.png)
But beyond that trademark, they also have protectable rights over something like this.Show Image(https://www.hoasted.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gradient-blue.jpg)
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2005506&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=documentSearch
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
You're confounding trade dress, which is capable of being trademarked as it is branding, with stuff that cannot be trademarked or copyrighted, like color ways.
So what you are saying is trade dress can be trademarked. In America, trade dress specifically refers to the following things, the shape/configuration of a product, the packaging of a product, the color of a product or packaging, and the flavor of a product.
I'm sorry I'm confused, so are you saying colors can or can't be trademarked?
Some people don't like Pulse, me included
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
That is pretty clear I think.MoreTechnically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I don't think so. Citigroup has a logo, it's citi with the red arch between the I's.Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Citigroup.svg/1280px-Citigroup.svg.png)
But beyond that trademark, they also have protectable rights over something like this.Show Image(https://www.hoasted.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gradient-blue.jpg)
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2005506&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=documentSearch
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
You're confounding trade dress, which is capable of being trademarked as it is branding, with stuff that cannot be trademarked or copyrighted, like color ways.
So what you are saying is trade dress can be trademarked. In America, trade dress specifically refers to the following things, the shape/configuration of a product, the packaging of a product, the color of a product or packaging, and the flavor of a product.
I'm sorry I'm confused, so are you saying colors can or can't be trademarked?
Trade dress is your brand identity. With regards to colors, a trademark-able color is a specific color that was created to uniquely and distinctly identify your brand. It's also a color that is neither functional nor one that is aesthetic. It must be used to identify your brand.
Pulse is not a brand, as such, it is not something that could be trademarked. I don't know how I could say it any clearer than has already been stated several times in here.
Trade dress is your brand identity. With regards to colors, a trademark-able color is a specific color that was created to uniquely and distinctly identify your brand. It's also a color that is neither functional nor one that is aesthetic. It must be used to identify your brand.
Pulse is not a brand, as such, it is not something that could be trademarked. I don't know how I could say it any clearer than has already been stated several times in here.
If it doesn't need an IC why did you post one (and delete it)I just find it kind of funny that as soon as Mito found out that he has no protection of his colorway, he started the IC for R2
PuLSE 2 doesn't need an explicit IC right now, people obviously want it so they will have it. A lot of people knew this already. It was even easter egged with the "Wait and Sea" joke on Reddit and some users followed the clues. I was hinting there all along, despite of what I've said here. We all knew from the beginning that nobody can possibly own a scheme.
My post from a couple of hours ago and even older posts clearly said that.
MoreTechnically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I don't think so. Citigroup has a logo, it's citi with the red arch between the I's.Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Citigroup.svg/1280px-Citigroup.svg.png)
But beyond that trademark, they also have protectable rights over something like this.Show Image(https://www.hoasted.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gradient-blue.jpg)
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2005506&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=documentSearch
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
You're confounding trade dress, which is capable of being trademarked as it is branding, with stuff that cannot be trademarked or copyrighted, like color ways.
So what you are saying is trade dress can be trademarked. In America, trade dress specifically refers to the following things, the shape/configuration of a product, the packaging of a product, the color of a product or packaging, and the flavor of a product.
I'm sorry I'm confused, so are you saying colors can or can't be trademarked?
Trade dress is your brand identity. With regards to colors, a trademark-able color is a specific color that was created to uniquely and distinctly identify your brand. It's also a color that is neither functional nor one that is aesthetic. It must be used to identify your brand.
Pulse is not a brand, as such, it is not something that could be trademarked. I don't know how I could say it any clearer than has already been stated several times in here.
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
MoreTechnically, color schemes can be trademarked or at least extended IP protection. However, its just incredibly difficult to get done.
Citigroup actually has a trademark for the blue gradient that they use.
But doesn't this also qualify as a logo for icon?
I don't think so. Citigroup has a logo, it's citi with the red arch between the I's.Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Citigroup.svg/1280px-Citigroup.svg.png)
But beyond that trademark, they also have protectable rights over something like this.Show Image(https://www.hoasted.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gradient-blue.jpg)
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2005506&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=documentSearch
I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
You're confounding trade dress, which is capable of being trademarked as it is branding, with stuff that cannot be trademarked or copyrighted, like color ways.
So what you are saying is trade dress can be trademarked. In America, trade dress specifically refers to the following things, the shape/configuration of a product, the packaging of a product, the color of a product or packaging, and the flavor of a product.
I'm sorry I'm confused, so are you saying colors can or can't be trademarked?
Trade dress is your brand identity. With regards to colors, a trademark-able color is a specific color that was created to uniquely and distinctly identify your brand. It's also a color that is neither functional nor one that is aesthetic. It must be used to identify your brand.
Pulse is not a brand, as such, it is not something that could be trademarked. I don't know how I could say it any clearer than has already been stated several times in here.
You should re-read what I said, I never said that Pulse can be trademarked, I was simply saying that a color can be trademarked, since up and down this thread people kept saying color cannot be trademarked, when in fact it can.
Also, a color need not be a specific color created for you, it just has to be a color that is peculiar within your market. The color can't solely be functional or aesthetic, but that doesn't mean that a color used in trade dress can't have those qualities.
I mean why use color if not for its aesthetic value? I can almost guarantee every color that is currently trademarked was incorporated into the brand identity because of aesthetic purposes.I'm just saying, color schemes can in fact be protectable IP. However, in the case of Mito, since the color scheme is solely a feature of the product itself, he wouldn't have any IP protection.
You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!
below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png (http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png) godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nhuvKoW.gif)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UZppjpV.gif)
About the PuLSE icon, it looks exactly the same and it's clearly from Nico. The diameter of the edges and angles are in fact identical and this is not a surprise, since I used an image featuring his icon as reference to create a logo for the set.
I can't say anything but repeat that the the leaf is an incredible coincidence. Not a surprise though, since it's a general shape with an closed angle cut. Anyone can do this is less than five minutes and I created the one I used from scratch.
The planet is a scan from a newsletter from my university, they used this icon as a tag for highlighting their website on the back of the newsletter. They also have the Facebook iconic "f" and a small phone to highlight their telephone number.
At this point you guys discussing ownership of everything might as well discuss the ownership of the shape of our planet and a leaf. Good luck with that.
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)
So it seems that the answer to the thread question, "Who owns a colorway?" is, not surprisingly, nobody.
So I just got a reply from Melissa at SP regarding colorway and custom legend IP.
(Attachment Link)