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Offline hyperspaceotter

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Sup
« on: Sun, 06 January 2013, 23:48:34 »
Hi geekhack!

Last year I was writing a lot of code, and I became angry that the parenthesis were in an inconvenient location, so I switched to programmer dvorak. Then I decided by keyboard wasn't good enough either. I don't have much space so I ordered a cherry G84-4100. Then I found out about the Typematrix 2030 and against my better judgement I bought that too. Then I realized you can do better than that so I plan to design and build my own keyboard. More on that later :D
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Offline rek55

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Re: Sup
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 00:19:53 »
What did you switch to programmer's dvorak from? That seems like a silly reason.
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Offline rek55

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Re: Sup
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 00:23:56 »
I looked in to programmer's dvorak a bunch, but since it requires installing a non-standard keyboard layout I decided against it. I can change anyone's (windows) computer to standard dvorak within 2 minutes, but to get programmer's dvorak on it it would be quite a bit more involved. I do like the idea of not needing to hit shfit to use the symbols, but I don't understand why it scrambles all the numbers too. It seems like it would be better to reorganize the symbols and keep the numbers in the standard ordering.
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Offline hyperspaceotter

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Re: Sup
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 00:33:29 »
I agree. I've become less impressed by the layout in the past year. I haven't bothered to change it yet, tho I probably should. I should mention the typematrix supports hot swapping to normal dvorak on a whim, which is a nice feature.
Programmer dvorak comes with most linux distros, as it turns out. But it isn't available by default outside the X window system, which gives me problems occasionally when I have to fix or install Arch Linux.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 January 2013, 00:36:03 by hyperspaceotter »
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Offline rek55

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Re: Sup
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 01:01:43 »
I believe Programmer's Dvorak is open source though, so I could possibly make my own with the number keys in the right spots... but I figure I should learn standard Dvorak first, and then switch to programmer's if i'm feeling ambitious.

My problem with any form of Dvorak is that all my hot keys are all moved around, many (ctrl+x/c/v) moved to a much less convenient place considering I tend to use them with my left hand while using the mouse with my right. Have you found that to be a problem / how did you get around it?
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Offline hoggy

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Re: Sup
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 01:48:09 »
I switched to dvorak a few years ago and really struggled with the shortcuts.   If you haven't gone too far with dvorak, take a look at Colemak. 

Wasd keyboards are bringing out a tkl keyboard with dip switches for dvorak and Colemak later this year.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Sup
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 03:09:05 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

If you want to design your own keyboard, there are lots of people here who can help.
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rek55

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Re: Sup
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 08:46:20 »
I don't like Colemak because it seems like it's just taking a flawed keyboard and trying to patch it. It's also not a standard option on Windows machines (I can make any Windows machine switch to Dvorak in about 2 minutes)

Also it looks like my post count isn't increasing? According to my profile (if I look at my posts) it should be at 67 posts. What is going on?
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Offline linkz

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Re: Sup
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 10:37:28 »
Welcome! I heard about dvorak layout, but would be wierd if u're using other people's computer and the layout is different than what u're used to.

Anyway, would be cool to install a blank keycaps on a dvorak keyboard, and frustrate whoever tried to use your computer =p
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Offline hyperspaceotter

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Re: Sup
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 10:51:16 »
Your post count doesn't increase in the newbie forums. That's why I'm posting a new thread once I get some more pictures of my work  ;)
I didn't find the changed shortcuts to be much of a problem. If you use keyboard-centric programs and find a way to use modifiers conveniently it's not an issue at all.
Except for the number keys. In some games you can switch tools/weapons with the number keys... well now that's completely screwed up and I don't think it works at all in Red Orchestra 2.
Quote
Anyway, would be cool to install a blank keycaps on a dvorak keyboard, and frustrate whoever tried to use your computer =p
It's frustrating enough already. I have clear programmer dvorak key stickers. Every key has two or more labels XD
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Sup
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 14:54:25 »
Using an alternative layout would be fine if you used only that one keyboard, but how would you go if you had to switch between several layouts during the day?
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline hyperspaceotter

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Re: Sup
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 07 January 2013, 21:24:39 »
Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 07 January 2013, 14:54:25
Using an alternative layout would be fine if you used only that one keyboard, but how would you go if you had to switch between several layouts during the day?

I'm not sure what you mean. It's nice that the keyboard can use dvorak even if the OS doesn't have that feature, but windows and linux do by default. I don't normally switch layouts. Occasionally I have to use a school computer, but as rek55 has stated it's pretty easy to set windows to (conventional) dvorak.
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