Author Topic: Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...  (Read 5678 times)

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Offline lowpoly

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 08:39:10 »
Hi,

I recently got my black Cherry G84-4100PTMDE.

I'm sort of disappointed with the switches. So far the Cherry ML received good reviews here? I wonder if my keyboard is maybe different.

Every time I press a key I hear plastic friction. The more I hit a key off-center the worse it gets. If a key is pressed at a corner it won't go down at all.

Is that normal behavior for the ML?

I never touched a Cherry MX and I wonder if it's the same with these.

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Offline ashort

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 09:06:57 »
I'm typing on the G84-4100PTMUS right now and I've never had an issue with keys activating.  And if anyone has poor typing skills here, it is me.  I suppose there is a little "plastic friction noise", but while reading your post I was intentionally pressing keys on their four corners and didn't get a key refusing to depress.  A tiny bit more force, but only a little bit, is required when pressing on the corner.
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline ashort

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 09:14:40 »
I think the cherry ml is one of the best switches for a small form factor keyboard.  There is a definite (but not clicky) two step action where you can feel the switch activate, with downward travel after that to the switch bottoming out.  So far, it is second only to my Apple M0116 Apple Keyboard, which I can type really fast on, which is a miracle with my hybrid hunt/peck half touch-type "method".  =-D

I'd say you either aren't as in love with MLs as I am, or you have a bad board/set of switches.
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline lowpoly

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 09:30:56 »
Strange. That's basically the same keyboard. Thanks for testing.

When I press at the corner but at an angle towards the center the key will go down easily. If the angle is vertical or even towards the outside the key will cant (?) and tilt. It feels like I could break it with enough pressure.

Tried it on my HHKB and on an ALPS board. No matter how I press, the key will go down.

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Offline ashort

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 09:41:48 »
Yeah, I was thinking they'd be identical except for maybe the layout, same switches, keycaps, etc.

Ok, if I really really try (several times) I can get a key to do what you describe if I ease the keycap to the edge of it's side-to-side play without pushing down on the switch (this ruins everything because it puts the switch in motion), then push down at the corner and away from the center, it will sometimes stick and not go down.  It only does this when intentionally try to make it happen, and then only about 1 time in 10.  Most of the time, it will still depress, half the time with no added force, half the time with a little extra force.

I've found some keys more susceptible than others for some reason my "4" and the "L" keys do it more than others.  But still only when I intentionally try to make the key do this.

I like this keyboard and I MIGHT replace it with a new mighty mouse (and I might not!) so I'm done abusing it's switches for now.  =-D
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline sashomasho

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 09:47:40 »
Quote from: sofa king;5331
Strange. That's basically the same keyboard. Thanks for testing.

When I press at the corner but at an angle towards the center the key will go down easily. If the angle is vertical or even towards the outside the key will cant (?) and tilt. It feels like I could break it with enough pressure.

Tried it on my HHKB and on an ALPS board. No matter how I press, the key will go down.
I have the same problem, soon I bought one g84-4100 for my girlfriend, and decided to take it for a week, after the first two hours with it I threw it away and got my beloved hhkb pro, with its keys which never refuse to go down, it was so relaxing to type again on it. The cherry was the first keyboard which I was disappointed at, since I'm in this forum... The strangest thing was when i removed a keycap the switch seemed ok, it moved very smoothly, but with the keycap on - it was horrible..

edit to sofa king: cherry mx is a different beast - the blue and the brown cherries are really amazing...

Offline Eclairz

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 14:30:04 »
I own a g84-4100ppagb and feel that some of my keys are just plain stiff, not sure if this is due to break in period yet. But due to my main computer being out of commission and no proper ps/2 to usb cables available, I haven't used it much.

The keyboard is too american with the little enter key and big left shift which I don't enjoy using, I much prefer a british/european style keyboard. So i'm waiting for a g84-4400 trackball one which is much closer in layout.

Yes the 4100 feels to have two a step action, but i'd rather have a smoothness of the black mx cherrys or the dual click action of the blue cherrys. I think with a lot more use though the 4100 will make me a better typer if im forced to press the centre of the key down, and with a much lighter touch and shorter travel so i can be faster.

What i feel cherry could have improved the design of the keyboard by removing keys and moving their functions on to other keys using Fn. Like with my psion 5mx, i'm so used to pressing Fn with right arrow key is "end" key, Fn with left is "home" key, Fn with up is "page up", Fn with down is "page down". Thus giving more space for a larger backspace, and enter, and the key above enter. Compact keyboards are usually just a hassle to get used to layout at the end of the day, but once you use them more normal keyboards just seem easy.

I haven't played with the hhkb range at all so have no idea how good they are. But if I can get my hands on a blue cherry smk keyboard that would be an ideal keyboard (although still problem of american layout).
Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard
RealForce 45g UK 88UB
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Offline Ulysses31

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 14:45:43 »

Offline Eclairz

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 15:58:59 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;5352
Aren't the LSC models using blue-cherrys?

Yes they do, i'm typing on a one as we speak, I use the GB version of course. Looks plain but works fine, I was talking about something more compact when i wanted the SMK keyboards as I travel to work and cant be carrying my keyboard in a separate bag all the time.

I may consider the G80-1800 though, which costs about the same as the G80-3000 and is more easier to fit in a bag, but will only have black cherrys (maybe better since my colleagues may get super irritated by blue cherrys)

edit: after looking at that page again the details seem to be a mix of G80-3000 details and another cherry keyboard, but if you look up the info on the cherry keyboard you will be able to sort the facts)
Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard
RealForce 45g UK 88UB
FILCO Majestouch TenKeyPad

Offline Ulysses31

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 17:53:03 »
That's what worries me about some of these online retailers.  They don't seem to care about the accuracy of their listings at all.  I was unfamiliar with the acronym "SMK" so I thought i'd chance posting that link anyway.

Offline Eclairz

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 11 June 2008, 20:48:24 »
SMK keyboards seem to be a brand for only Americans, and they seem to be developing Apple mac keyboards, which are compatible with windows xp and vista given you find the right drivers as I have.

They make fairly compact keyboards and use cherries or alps i think. But the SMK 88 blue cherry keyboard caught my eye, as I enjoy blue cherry keyboards and need something more compact when I'm out my home.
Due to scarcity of the keyboard and due to the fact I would have to import it from America, I will probably not pursue it anymore anyway.

On the other hand I find keysonic's scissor membrane switches are fairly decent for typing and they also come in compact layouts too. i find scissor membranes(very quiet and linear the polar opposite of blue cherrys but nice to type for alternative reasons) are useless for gaming (due to short travel? flat keys?), but good enough for lots of typing. And if you've ever used a Macally Icekey, its just a rebranded keysonic, so should have similar action.

This is one of their keyboards i'm considering, too bad its american layout though.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keysonic-ACK-3700C-Mini-Compact-Wired-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ130203331793QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33964QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard
RealForce 45g UK 88UB
FILCO Majestouch TenKeyPad

Offline lowpoly

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 12 June 2008, 02:45:39 »
Quote from: ashort;5333
I like this keyboard and I MIGHT replace it with a new mighty mouse (and I might not!) so I'm done abusing it's switches for now.  =-D

You have to make sacrifices in the name of science. :-) From your description my keys tilt easier than yours. Maybe a different batch of switches.

Quote from: sashomasho;5334
The strangest thing was when i removed a keycap the switch seemed ok, it moved very smoothly, but with the keycap on - it was horrible..

edit to sofa king: cherry mx is a different beast - the blue and the brown cherries are really amazing...

Same here. Without keycap it moves fine. I guess there is just not enough lever to tilt it. My theory is that stem and switch housing do not fit well together materialwise and create too much friction.

Thanks for answering my MX question.

Quote from: Eclairz;5359
On the other hand I find keysonic's scissor membrane switches are fairly decent for typing and they also come in compact layouts too. i find scissor membranes(very quiet and linear the polar opposite of blue cherrys but nice to type for alternative reasons) are useless for gaming (due to short travel? flat keys?), but good enough for lots of typing. And if you've ever used a Macally Icekey, its just a rebranded keysonic, so should have similar action.

This is one of their keyboards i'm considering, too bad its american layout though.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keysonic-ACK-3700C-Mini-Compact-Wired-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ130203331793QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33964QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

Ah, scissors. I always wanted a Nano because of the form factor. But I thought it was rubber dome. Gotta get it now.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Chloe

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 02 October 2008, 18:28:20 »
I have a newish G84-4100PTMGB with the same problem. This plastic friction sound is really annoying. I can feel the resistance as I type, but there is none if the key is pressed square-on. I find it's a bit better with the feet up but I prefer my keyboards to be flat. I hope it just needs breaking in.

I also find this keyboard too noisy with the keycaps. Without them it is much quieter. I'm wondering if they could be dampened somehow.

Offline lowpoly

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 03 October 2008, 13:16:26 »
Quote from: Chloe;9280
I hope it just needs breaking in.
That may help. ashort loves his G84-4100 and I believe he uses it regularly.

Quote from: Chloe;9280
I also find this keyboard too noisy with the keycaps. Without them it is much quieter. I'm wondering if they could be dampened somehow.
Maybe, but I don't think this will work well. With the Cherry MX the switch will move into the keycap when the cap is being pressed down. The ML should work the same way. Even if you add something thin it will reduce travel even more.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline iMav

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 03 October 2008, 14:07:02 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9297
That may help. ashort loves his G84-4100 and I believe he uses it regularly.

Speaking of ashort...anyone "seen" him around lately?

Offline Chloe

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Not too happy with my Cherry G84-4100 and I wonder...
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 04 October 2008, 19:25:20 »
Thanks lowpoly. The ML switches are as you described. I put a small towel under the keyboard and it sounds much quieter now. :)