Solidtek ASK-6600U

[DamienG]

I order this keyboard from DS International at http://www.notestation.com/ask-6600.htm as it is ALPS switches and only $49... plus my DAS 2 is back home in the UK.

The keyboard is nice to type on, a little loud, but the quality of the plastic and construction feels far superior to the tacky and echo-inducing DAS 2. The surround is also a lot more minimal which I like compared to the DAS 2 and my Model M.

Some people might not like the subtle layout change - backspace is half as wide and \ sits to the left of it which results in a double-height enter key. Coming from the UK I expect a double-height enter but normally \ sits to the left of Z.

The bad news is the keyboard has a real problem registering some sequence of keystrokes. Most notably so far is "oun" which always results in n not being registered. This happens even at relatively slow speeds. I'm waiting for a response from DSI to see if this is a design fault or just a one-off bad keyboard.

Will post a picture tonight.

[)amien

[DamienG]

Hmm. Seems more widespread. Hold down w then e and the repeating changes... but tapping z or x won't interrupt the e.  Same for ou and n or m. I'm guessing there are other combinations.

EDIT: Typing house quickly results in "ho" and the Windows start menu opening up or just "ho" on my MacBook Pro.

[)amien

[bhtooefr]

Sounds like you've got a 2-key rollover keyboard with some WEIRD matrix combinations.

[gn022566767]

i was going to order this one, but i think i am going to hold on to this thought.

i actually want one that has volume control too.. like that new white DSI one or the up coming gigabyte gaming keyboard

[DamienG]

I just got off the phone with a Solidtek rep.  I explained the problem and she tried holding q then w then a down and it didn't recognise the a on her keyboard which she said was also a Solidtek but not the same model as the one I have.  

It could well be a problem with a number of keyboards within their range.  Interestingly I read on wikipedia that at least 3 keys registered is considered essential for English touch-typing.

[)amien

[bhtooefr]

I'm not sure what their source is for that claim.

Intelligently-designed key matrices mean that 2-key rollover is fine - the legendary IBM Model M is 2-key rollover, and it's very rare to have problems with it, because the rollover combos that actually MATTER aren't 2-key rollover.

And, I'm typing this on a (2-key rollover) Unicomp EnduraPro.

Now, 0-key rollover IS a pain. But, somehow, people got by for 50+ years, doing English touch-typing, with it - typebar typewriters are 0-key rollover, on ALL combos. And it's hella annoying going from even a 2-key rollover keyboard to, say, a manual typewriter.

[xsphat]

As a writer, I ask you please never to even hint at the use of a typewriter again.

[slifox]

My DSI ASK-6600U just arrived!! ...been waiting [im]patiently all morning! So far so good...

First, a little background...
I love Model Ms, but don't use them often due to the somewhat outdated keyboard layout (I like my "tux keys" -- though I'll call them by their popular name, "windows keys", to avoid confusion -- and I like my big "L" enter and small backspace).

My previous favorite was my trusty KeyTronic KT800PS2US-C. They make awesome keyboards with great tactile feedback for what they are, but sadly they are still just rubber membrane. Nonetheless, I absolutely abhor laptop keyboards and any new desktop keyboard (especially the damn Dells, which are almost as bad as laptop keyboards), and have never stumbled across a suitable replacement for my KeyTronic (not that I've tried looking, but I have used a lot of other peoples' keyboards). I NEED to be able to feel the difference between the keys, and I NEED to be able to feel when a key is being pressed enough to make contact.

I did some research recently and found this forum--and good thing! I didn't quite want to drop $100 for a keyboard that may not even be an improvement, especially considering that my last KeyTronic was free and has lasted me for over 6 years of consistent, constant programming use (and still going! though the page-up key started breaking just this morning, hours before my new DSI arrived!! weird...). $50 was more reasonable, but the only popular, clicky & tactile-y keyboard I found in this range was the iOne M10. After reading some reviews here and elsewhere, regarding the poor workmanship and numerous PCB manufacturing defects, I quickly dismissed the iOne as a viable option.

So anyways, back to the DSI...
The first thing I noticed was the considerable heft--it definitely has a metal plate inside, and feels very sturdy. I tried popping off the buttons (which are ALPS switches according to the spec), but they didn't come off easily like on a membrane keyboard, and I didn't want to break my brand new utility/toy. The keys are clicky, but also has plenty of tactile feedback. The click is much less sharp and less high-pitched than that of a Model M, but it is still very noticeable by anyone nearby. The switches have a nice amount of resistance to them, and the keys are very defined (you can easily feel the sharp difference between keys on the keyboard--an absolute must in my book). The click occurs halfway down the stroke of the keypress (yes, I measured ).

Some posts here commented about the odd layout--but it is actually my preferred layout (the same as my KeyTronic). I like the small backspace, the large inverted-"L" enter key, the longer right shift, and the pipe/backslash key to the left of the backspace... so this keyboard is a perfect fit! They keyboard body is a little less deep than my KeyTronic--with a little less room between the F# keys and the number keys, and a lot less room above the F# keys. Additionally, the left Ctrl and Alt buttons are wider than normal, at the expense of a smaller left "windows key" (I rather like this change, though). The right Ctrl, Alt, "windows key", and "menu key", however, are the same, regular size. Finally, the Caps Lock does not have a cutout section near the A key, like my KeyTronic does, but I doubt I'll even notice this difference in actual use.

I am investigating the one reported problem of 2-key rollover with combinations like "oun", but thus far I haven't really noticed any problems. I'm not used to this new keyboard yet, so I'm not up to 100% speed with it (85wpm last I checked). When I begin typing very fast, I noticed that my spaces don't always come at the right time, but this may be more of an issue of getting habituated to this keyboard, rather than a defect. My old KeyTronic has a great spacebar that is much more clicky/boomy than the other keys, and so I think I've become accustomed to its peculiarities.

My favorite part of the Model Ms is the way you can fly over the keys, without bottoming out. When you really get into the groove, you can hit amazing wpm with great accuracy, and its really noticeable! I'm not yet at that point with this keyboard, but every so often I can get it going (and it feels good--just like on the Model Ms)

When I ordered, I didn't immediately receive a UPS tracking number. So I called up the DSI 800 number, and was quickly greeted by a staff member that was very friendly and very helpful. A+ for support so far!

A few regular business days for me will determine if this keyboard is really worth its salt, but I am optimistic that I have found a new favorite modern keyboard!

Cheers,
Alex

[bhtooefr]

When you ordered that keyboard, were you aware of the Unicomp Customizer 104 and SpaceSaver 104?

Essentially, the Customizer 104 is a Model M with Windows keys, and the SpaceSaver 104 is the same thing with a smaller body. (Same internals, though, including the curvature.)

They're $69, IIRC.

[slifox]

When you ordered that keyboard, were you aware of the Unicomp Customizer 104 and SpaceSaver 104?

Yeah, I had checked those 2 models out I was seriously considering getting the Customizer 104 before I found the DSI. My only issue with the Customizer is the position of the pipe/backslash key--it is larger than normal keys, and is right above the enter button instead of to the left of the backspace. This means the backspace is double-width and the enter is single-height (instead of a small backspace and a large, inverted-"L" enter key)

I program a lot, so I use the symbol keys much more than someone who doesn't program--so their position and size is pretty important to me.

I think most people prefer the Customizer style layout, since that is the more traditional layout, but I have become accustomed to my KeyTronics layout (with the small pipe and backspace, and large enter key, as described above), so the DSI was the clear winner for me.

Alex

[xsphat]

Welcome to the Alps.

[bhtooefr]

Ah, I didn't catch that you like L-shaped enters.

[slifox]

A quick note to add:

After a few days of using this keyboard, I noticed some problems with rollover. Using the http://rollover.geekhack.org test, I wasn't able to get Q-W-A-S (or even Q-W-A) to output all characters, but things like S-D-F-J-K-L (i.e. braille input test) did work fine.

Just this morning I noticed that typing 'gre' (as in the word 'grep') would leave out the 'e' when done very fast. This is obviously a big deal for a linux/etc admin, since grep is almost an essential command. However, when I put on the USB-to-PS2 adapter and used the keyboard with the PS2 port, the problem went away.

I'd highly recommend using PS2 instead of USB to anyone having rollover problems!

Also, I noticed that the key click occurs *BEFORE* the key actually triggers. This is somewhat disappointing, but I guess it has to do with the switch mechanism. I had assumed that the click was inherent in the actual triggering, like in buckling spring switches. I don't think this will be a problem though, because you can only get the key to click without triggering if you move it very slowly. Any normal keypress seems to have enough force to keep the key moving downward after the click enough to trigger.

[lexicon]

I bought one of these two weeks ago and like the key action a lot, but the reduced backspace key is driving me nuts.  The sound is certainly different from the Model M family, much sharper and higher.  It seems well-made, but the space bar makes a weirdly cheap sound.

[poonsmjj]

A quick note to add:

After a few days of using this keyboard, I noticed some problems with rollover. Using the http://rollover.geekhack.org test, I wasn't able to get Q-W-A-S (or even Q-W-A) to output all characters, but things like S-D-F-J-K-L (i.e. braille input test) did work fine.

Just this morning I noticed that typing 'gre' (as in the word 'grep') would leave out the 'e' when done very fast. This is obviously a big deal for a linux/etc admin, since grep is almost an essential command. However, when I put on the USB-to-PS2 adapter and used the keyboard with the PS2 port, the problem went away.

I'd highly recommend using PS2 instead of USB to anyone having rollover problems!

Also, I noticed that the key click occurs *BEFORE* the key actually triggers. This is somewhat disappointing, but I guess it has to do with the switch mechanism. I had assumed that the click was inherent in the actual triggering, like in buckling spring switches. I don't think this will be a problem though, because you can only get the key to click without triggering if you move it very slowly. Any normal keypress seems to have enough force to keep the key moving downward after the click enough to trigger.

Hey slifox,

I'm actually in the same boat as you were... I'm using the exact same KeyTronic keyboard that you had. How did you find the change to the Solidtek? Is it really noisy? Also, about the key click issue you mentioned - is it a deal breaker? It doesn't seem like it in your review so I'm just wondering.

One last question - can anyone comment on the differences between alps and cherry? Like for example, is the white alps similar to a blue cherry etc etc

[Bluemercury]

waiting for mk96, are those the same switches?

[lexicon]

Regarding the ASK-6600U:  I've been using this board for about a month and I love the key action -- it's fun to type on.

But, and this is weird, there's a ringing sound when I type.  It's not the keys, it's like something in the board is resonating, and it's driving me nuts.  Every keystroke produces the click and, in the background, a sort of ringing echo.  I've tried putting it on a rubber mat, etc., but that has no effect.

Not many people have this board, I gather, but does anyone have any suggestions?  I love the Alps switches, but it's really starting to bother me.

[xsphat]

DSI 'boards with Alps switches do that. My SMK85 did, and for the longest time I thought it was an Alps thing, but the MK96 and Northgate don't do that. I never knew it was a problem so I never tried to fix it.

[lexicon]

Good to know I'm not imagining it.  I wonder if there's room inside for a thin sheet of foam rubber.

BTW, I have ordered a Dell AT101W from Clickykeyboards.  Does it have the same type of Alps switches?

[itlnstln]

Lexicon, if you try the foam rubber thing, let us know how it turns out.  I have a Northgate, and it sounds like, at times, that I'm typing in a steel drum (I think this is due to the thick steel base of the 'board, go figure ).  The single biggest contributor to noise on my Northgate is the keys bottoming out.  The switch itself is a light click, but the bottoming out is a loud thunk that further resonates through the steel drum of the case.  Unfortunately, the Alps key action is so light, that it is hard for me to press the keys without bottoming out.  That's what years of typing on Model Ms will do for you, though.

[graywolf]

If you are going to bottom out the keys you might as well be using a rubber dome keyboard, in my not so humble opinion. The reason for tactile feedback (and audio to a lesser extent)  is so you won't have to bottom out the key to know you have pressed it far enough. That said after 2-3 weeks on the M, I am still bottoming out about half the time. It does take a bit of practice to get in the loop.

[itlnstln]

I am getting much better at not bottoming out, but it's tough.  While I have not typed with the Northgate and the Model M side by side, I think the keystroke on the Northgate is shorter than the M.  Also, even deliberately pressing one key on the Northgate, it seems that there is almost no travel between the click of the switch and the bottom of the board. I am not sure if this is due to the newness of the switches (Alps-vets can maybe help me out with this one), but there does not seem to be any resistance in the key after the click-point.  What happens then is there is certain amount of force required to activate the switch, but it is so much that after activation, it's hard to stop your finger before bottoming out.  I think as I use it more, the switches will wear in a bit, and it will be much easier to prevent bottoming out.

[xsphat]

My Model Ms all click about three quarters of the way down, while the Alps click about one third of the way down. Both register the key stroke when it clicks.

And going from Alps to Ms, I still bottom out, but not nearly with as much force on the BS as the Alps and Topre switches. And yes, I'm still loving the buckling springs.