Author Topic: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide  (Read 6687 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fragil1ty

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 551
  • Location: England
  • Abre los ojos.
Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« on: Sat, 11 October 2014, 20:31:16 »

Keyboard Quality Guide ~ :llama:


So I had this idea for a while that I thought would be quite cool. A generalised location of keyboards that I've owned (and other keyboards that others have owned, if people are interested in contributing), then that way, we can have a location that we can refer people too if they are in the market for buying or comparing boards and what not! Personally, I will only be adding keyboards that I have used and that's why the help of the community is needed.

----------------------------------------------------

60%

HHKB Pro 2:

Quality Assurance: 10/10
Quality: 9/10
Switches: Topre - 10/10 For typing | 7/10 for Gaming
Keycaps: PBT - 9/10
Price: $260.00
Other: A very Highly admired keyboard here within the GH community. This is one of the go to boards for those users who are avid Topre users, one of the best 60% boards on the market currently.

75%

Keycool 84 (KC84):

Quality Assurance: 9/10 - Heard of very little failure rates in the MX Cherry models.
Quality: 9/10
Switches: Blue, Brown, Red, Black - Now only comes with Kailh, be wary.
Keycaps: PBT - High quality
Price: $100
Other: This 75% used to be the only direct competitor to the Noppoo choc mini, but since they switched to Kailh switches, they are not worth the money anymore, imo.


Noppoo Choc Mini:

Quality Assurance: 2/10 - Lucky that I'm rating it 2/10, very high failure rates within this keyboard. Chattering is very common.
Quality: 7.5/10
Switches: Blue, Brown, Red and Black (Red is most common).
Keycaps: POM - Very high quality imo, but the keycap printing on the front of the keys wears away rather easily, the top printing does not.
Price: $109.99 - On offer/sale quite often
Other: The Noppoo Choc Mini is probably the best in it's range, the 75% range but the fact that it breaks after 5-8 months of use doesn't entirely justify the price point, a lot of Choc Mini users do not like the revisions that this keyboard has undergone also, e.g. Changing the keycaps (caps lock, numlock), etc.


TKL - Tenkeyless

Filco Majestouch-2, TKL

Quality Assurance: 10/10 - I've not heard of any Filco failure rates as of yet.
Quality: 9/10 - Feels like a very sturdy and well made product
Switches: Blue, Brown, Red and Black
Keycaps: ABS? - Not 100% on this one.
Price: $180.57
Other: Great keyboard, one of the higher ups in terms of the TKL Family.


KUL ES-87

Quality Assurance: 10/10 - They even offer a 2 year warranty.
Quality: - 9/10 - Excellent product, you can tell that Keyed Up Labs take pride in their board and it's not just a money maker for them.
Switches: Browns, Reds, Blacks and Clears.
Keycaps: ABS - Would not advise, would suggest you have some better keycaps at the ready.
Price: $129.00
Other: Fantastic keyboard, the best TKL currently available on the market, in my opinion.


Razer Blackwidow - Tournement Edition Stealth

Quality Assurance: 9/10 - Although I dislike this board, I have heard of little failure rates in their new 2014 refresh.
Quality: 6/10 - Heavy, but feels cheap.
Switches: Kailh Switches - Would not advise.
Keycaps: ABS - If you use them then god bless your soul as the font will pierce your eyes and destroy your soul.
Price: $79.99
Other: I bought this keyboard and enjoyed it at first, but the keys are finger print and oil magnets, the keyswitch over time starts to feel horrible and irritable and the keyswitch imo just feels cheap, buy with caution.


----------------------------------------------------

I would love if other people could contribute to this small project, it's just essentially to see if it takes off, maybe people are fans of asking advice in the 'Keyboard' section constantly but this is just an alternate means of providing information. I'm also very willing to add any new entries to the start of this post so that it can be a massive long list eventually.

Only downfall is that a lot of the information here is going to be subjective, so I hope that a lot of us can agree on what is being posted, if not strawpolls will be made and then voted upon to make sure that there is balance.

The format is below:

Quote
Title of Keyboard
Quality Assurance:
Quality:
Switches:
Keycaps:
Price:
Other:
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 October 2014, 03:48:58 by Fragil1ty »
你搞砸了

Offline epzy

  • HHKB Fiend
  • Posts: 2061
  • Location: Norway
  • ded
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 11 October 2014, 20:38:14 »
Filco MJ2 keycaps = ABS.
FaceW ~ Duck Viper ~ Kishsaver ~ HHKB Pro 2 Cherry G81-3000SAU ~ Filco Majestouch 2 ~ GON NS NerD 60 HHKB ~ 360 Corsa (jk skam) ~ KMAC Happy (jk skam) ~ JD40 (jk skam)

Offline Elrick

  • Hype Master
  • Posts: 4895
  • Location: CrapTown, Convict Settlement
  • Keyboard Orgasmist
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 11 October 2014, 21:28:20 »

Keyboard Quality Guide ~ :llama:

Razer Blackwidow - Tournement Edition Stealth

Keycaps: ABS - If you use them then god bless your soul as the font will pierce your eyes and destroy your soul.


The ONLY real comment yet released here on Geekhack, bless you  8) .

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 12275
  • Location: RSTLN E
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 11 October 2014, 21:37:18 »
KUL is not out in blues yet

It was supposed to come this month, but got pushed back because of problems with the custom topcases they were planning to release alongside the MX blue board.
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8658
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 11 October 2014, 21:43:55 »
You have no definition or metric for quality in this write up.  What is quality?  Reading your short blurbs, it seems like you're basing quality off of case rigidity and feel, not build quality, quality of components (PCB, SMD/soldered parts, etc), quality of the solder job and cleaning the PCB, and so on.  The quality assurance metric doesn't have anything stating what the rankings correspond to.  Is it a 9/10 if it comes with a missing screw or broken cap?  Does customer support fit into this metric as well?  Are you just looking at failure rates?

And on quality assurance, remember, quality assurance is about maintaining a standard of fit and finish for a product, it says nothing about long term build quality.

I guess I'm just saying this needs clearer metrics that are more precise and accurate in what they mean to really be useful.  The current iteration is just too arbitrary.

That said, it is a good start to something that could be useful to people.  OriginalSin on OCN does something similar with motherboards and then we have people like JonnyGuru and OklahomaWolf doing awesome tear downs and reviews of PSUs.  I think something a little more robust, precise, and accurate could definitely help a ton with those looking for help in their decision making process.

Offline ComradeSniper

  • HHKB Pro
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 11 October 2014, 23:44:09 »
I agree with nubs, I like the idea but the numbering seems a bit arbitrary.

Offline Fragil1ty

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 551
  • Location: England
  • Abre los ojos.
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 03:53:08 »
What would you guys advise as an appropriate replacement? I just used a simple number system as that's all I could think of at the time. I'm open to ideas, suseptible to change and what not.


Quote
Are you just looking at failure rates?


 Mostly yes, who wants a keyboard that's going to break in a few months or whatever?


Quote
I guess I'm just saying this needs clearer metrics that are more precise and accurate in what they mean to really be useful.  The current iteration is just too arbitrary.


If you have a good alternative, I'd love to hear it man, sincerely. I do agree with everything you've said to be honest, it makes a lot of sense. I hope after a lot of tweaking and updates, it can be a helpful tool to the GH Community.
你搞砸了

Offline frosty

  • jukebox hero
  • Posts: 700
  • Location: Singapore
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 09:07:06 »
One question I would like to ask, how does one wear away the front printing of the POM keycaps on the choc mini?

Offline esoomenona

  • Gnillort?
  • Posts: 5323
.
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 09:15:55 »
.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 September 2015, 12:59:38 by esoomenona »

Offline esoomenona

  • Gnillort?
  • Posts: 5323
.
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 09:17:50 »
.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 September 2015, 12:58:17 by esoomenona »

Offline keyhopper

  • Posts: 81
  • Fun is Key.
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 10:53:53 »
I for one appreciate completely subjective and arbitrary scores and comments. Especially since he is stating his frame of reference (his other keyboards), and stating that they are subjective.
It's not like he is a paid reviewer, you know :) . He is showing us a "data point", his perspective, which I value since he tried so many keyboards.

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

RealForce 87UB 55gr    |    IBM Model M (1995)    |    Razer B.W.T.E. Stealth (w Razer oranges)

Offline esoomenona

  • Gnillort?
  • Posts: 5323
.
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 12 October 2014, 11:56:02 »
.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 September 2015, 11:29:44 by esoomenona »

Offline Premonition

  • HHKB Elite
  • Posts: 129
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 13 October 2014, 02:30:54 »
Would be nice to put in the FC660C/M. I personally feel that they are of very good quality, heavy plates and no failures that I have heard of, PBT and all (with dye-subs on one edition).

Offline Fragil1ty

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 551
  • Location: England
  • Abre los ojos.
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 13 October 2014, 04:08:29 »
One question I would like to ask, how does one wear away the front printing of the POM keycaps on the choc mini?


In all sincerity dude, I honestly don't know how it occurs, it just happens. I'm a very frequent keyboard user, so I use my keyboard for.. the majority of the day and some how, even though your finger oils aren't even touching the front keyprinting, it wears away and I honestly don't know why or how this happens. It happens over the course of a few weeks, you'll start to notice it, maybe some of the numpad numbers wear away and then over the course of the next couple of months it intensitifies, but this never happens to the top printing what so ever, so I really do not understand what goes on with this keyprinting.


It's hard to base all of these things on a sole person's experience. For example, you say QA for HHKB is perfect, but certain people have encountered cases that are crooked. Also, you say 9 for PBT caps. But what makes a 10? And why was one subtracted? What about the ABS spacebar? Minus a point or two for that? Points awarded because PBT hype? Because ABS caps can be high quality as well (even if most stock ones aren't).

Most of my comments are focused on the HHKB because that's the only one I read before I realized the flaws here.
 

Well that's it isn't it, I've seen no complaints here on the forums about peoples HHKB's, I've saw people complain about the ABS spacebar (the reason for the 9 out 10) and people praise their PBT keycaps, I've typed on the keyboard and I thought the keycaps were incredibly nice to type on, they didn't feel cheap to me what so ever.

ABS keycaps can feel nice and high quality and all that jazz, but in the majority of boards that I've used that use ABS keycaps, that just hasn't been the case for me.

Also, why do you list Topre switches by typing and gaming quality and nothing else? I think that is completely subjective, and all subjectivity should be removed if you wish this to be a true guide for people. A statement about subjectivity and personal experience should accompany.
 

What else is there? honestly? You either buy a keyboard for the typing experience or the gaming experience, there is nothing else, bit confused here dude.

I for one appreciate completely subjective and arbitrary scores and comments. Especially since he is stating his frame of reference (his other keyboards), and stating that they are subjective.
It's not like he is a paid reviewer, you know :) . He is showing us a "data point", his perspective, which I value since he tried so many keyboards.

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.
 

Thanks for your comment man, I really appreciate it. I'm just trying to find a middle ground so that this as previously stated, can turn into something that people can rely on and trust when they want to go ahead and purchase their keyboards. If people want to involve themselves, then I am all for it, if people do not agree with certain aspects of what I or other people are saying, then we can talk it out and adjust and contrast and all that jazz, so that the content here is completely truthful and helpful towards the user that may potentially use this to purchase his or her next keyboard.

Would be nice to put in the FC660C/M. I personally feel that they are of very good quality, heavy plates and no failures that I have heard of, PBT and all (with dye-subs on one edition).
 

Yeah man definitely,  if someone has the time to write something up about this if you've owned one, then that'd be awesome. I've never owned one personally, so I cannot speak on this behalf, but a lot of others may be able to do so.
你搞砸了

Offline Surnia

  • Posts: 146
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 22 December 2014, 01:24:52 »
Shame about the Keycool switching key types, I liked seeing two competing boards with the same form factor..

One question I would like to ask, how does one wear away the front printing of the POM keycaps on the choc mini?

Fingernails. You never notice it as you type, but I had mine wear down because you (or at least me) sometimes will push your fingers a bit further forwards and it'll scrape. I then re-did them in Vallejo acrylics, and sealed them with a matte finishing coat. Over the next two months I noticed gradual marks that grew into tears on the matte coat, and they're now almost completely worn down again (granted, this is after a year+). The POM and PBT plastics are also very good with repelling almost anything, including the paints they used for the side prints.

Caveat is that my Filco Ninja (older than my Noppoo) side prints are still holding out VERY well.


75%
Noppoo Choc Mini:

Quality Assurance: 2/10 - Lucky that I'm rating it 2/10, very high failure rates within this keyboard. Chattering is very common.
Quality: 7.5/10
Switches: Blue, Brown, Red and Black (Red is most common).
Keycaps: POM - Very high quality imo, but the keycap printing on the front of the keys wears away rather easily, the top printing does not.
Price: $109.99 - On offer/sale quite often
Other: The Noppoo Choc Mini is probably the best in it's range, the 75% range but the fact that it breaks after 5-8 months of use doesn't entirely justify the price point, a lot of Choc Mini users do not like the revisions that this keyboard has undergone also, e.g. Changing the keycaps (caps lock, numlock), etc.


I am at present at 1.5 years since I posted my long review on the white Noppoo (white is definitely PBT. Been trying to get my hands on a POM set for ages though. I prefer POM...). Legends on top are definitely laser, and have not degraded at all. I noticed some minor chatter on select keys after a few months, but they've either long since disappeared, or I have adapted my typing to avoid it. I remember it was caused by hard bottoming out though, and I realized it was most likely due to the key being pressed too long. Aside from that, it has been running strong ever since.

I'm planning on doing a long term review soon, to detail the nuances and fun little details I've shared with that little keyboard.

Noppoo Choc Mini with MX Black | Filco 104 MJ2 Ninja with MX Black

Offline duzeyao

  • Posts: 92
  • Location: CN
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 22 December 2014, 06:23:04 »
YES Choc Mini has very serious chattering issue.
It ruined Noppoo's reputation in my heart  :-[ :-[
你绝版的婊子妈坟

Offline bowji

  • Posts: 259
  • Location: S. Korea
  • Came for the Keycaps, stayed for the community.
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 22 December 2014, 08:36:05 »
I like the idea of this thread, its just the problem of having a defined rating systems. Since opinions/ratings are subjective having an average score board seems appropriate. I can picture all the keyboards geekhackers use listed with a star rating like amazon... non-custom boards of course.
               FREE GIRLDC!!     코리안 스레드

Offline Fragil1ty

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 551
  • Location: England
  • Abre los ojos.
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 10:11:47 »
I like the idea of this thread, its just the problem of having a defined rating systems. Since opinions/ratings are subjective having an average score board seems appropriate. I can picture all the keyboards geekhackers use listed with a star rating like amazon... non-custom boards of course.


I would still love to do something like this, maybe even make a website around it, nothing fancy, just a good/simple rating system.


But I've abandoned this for the moment, I think I need to put in more effort so that it would be a lot more logical and obviously there needs to be heavy input from the community. (Geekhack community).
你搞砸了

Offline Lunatique

  • Posts: 292
  • Writer, Composer, Artist, Photographer, Gamer
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 12 January 2015, 04:04:42 »
What else is there? honestly? You either buy a keyboard for the typing experience or the gaming experience, there is nothing else, bit confused here dude.
There's one more--content creation. For example, lots of audio/visual editing while working with video, audio, CG, photography, etc.

When I work with editing software, I dislike the clicky switches, although I love them for typing. When navigating timelines, linear switches feel more intuitive than tactile switches, and quiet switches are less distracting when working with audio.

Offline Fragil1ty

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 551
  • Location: England
  • Abre los ojos.
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 14 January 2015, 08:03:39 »
What else is there? honestly? You either buy a keyboard for the typing experience or the gaming experience, there is nothing else, bit confused here dude.
There's one more--content creation. For example, lots of audio/visual editing while working with video, audio, CG, photography, etc.

When I work with editing software, I dislike the clicky switches, although I love them for typing. When navigating timelines, linear switches feel more intuitive than tactile switches, and quiet switches are less distracting when working with audio.


As I said dude, I would love to do something with this, I really would, but I just don't really know where to start to be honest. I would love to make a website that has all of the commonly used keyboards within a dropdown menu, you click your desired keyboard and you'll see other information that has been stored by other users and then you're able to add/submit your own information about that keyboard etc, I've got the spare on my server and what not, it's just implementing it and what not to be honest.
你搞砸了

Offline GL1TCH3D

  • Posts: 1117
  • Location: Quebec, Canada
  • Audiophile, tea lover and now keyboard hugger!
Re: Fragil1ty's Keyboard Quality Guide
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 15 January 2015, 11:40:32 »
I'm not going to mention custom koreans but I'll do the following (and I understand if you don't want to include one that will be very obvious)

Code TKL
Quality Assurance - 10/10
Quality - 9.5/10
Switches: If you mean all offerings that would be clears, greens
Keycaps: Stock keycaps are ABS
Price starts at $150 new
Other: The keyboard itself feels very solid. Haven't heard of dead LEDs on them yet (meanwhile ducky seems to be having this issue more and more lately). I didn't try the stock keycaps. My friend who mashes his keyboard so hard that his MX Blacks keyboard broke has been fine with this keyboard (besides him complaining that MX Greens are too light). This keyboard also comes in a full sized version. With a nice set of DSA keycaps the keyboard looks really nice (see my dolch and codebana album for that)

Razer blackwidow 2014 Ultimate (razer clone version)
Quality assurance: 0/10
Quality: (for the price) 0/10
Switches: Fake mx blues and fake MX browns
Keycaps: Feel like my dog ate some rubber and shat out some mass of other crap and partially digested rubber then it was molded into a keycap. I cringed typing on them.
Price: Far too high ($150 new in Canada + tax)
Other: Keyboard had a nice weight but who knows, maybe they saw rip's guide on adding weight with melted lead.