Dear Apple,
Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You've been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Thanks,
Every Mac user
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.Where do you think half their revenue comes from :p
Dear Apple,
Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Thanks,
Every Mac user
Dear Apple,
Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Thanks,
Every Mac user
I think you mean ".05% of Mac users" outside the echo chamber of this forum.
Dear Apple,
Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You've been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Thanks,
Every Mac user
This will be the best MacBook ever :thumb: :thumb:
The steel dome is intriguing
Apple announced that their new MacBook, which is a 2lb crazy-thin notebook even thinner than the MacBook Air, has a new kind of keyboard switch that they invented.So, Apple has "invented" something again, huh?
More key surface area to key spacing is not a good thing - it increases the likelihood of pressing the wrong key.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.Can you elaborate on which part you think is bull****? ADB was basically the best peripheral connector on any PC until USB came along.
More key surface area to key spacing is not a good thing - it increases the likelihood of pressing the wrong key.This was my thought too, but I’m guessing they probably subjected the new keyboard to a huge amount of user testing, so maybe they know something we don’t.
100% junk scissor switchAs you can see in the picture, there’s no scissoring involved here. It’s 100% junk butterfly, okay?
The PS/2 connectors used on Wintel PCs were a joke. Totally restart your computer to plug in a new keyboard? Are you ****ing kidding me?ADB wasn't without problems either. Woz intended it to be hot-swapped but not every implementation supported it.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Whaaa... Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!
I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable. Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing. Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.
It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.Where do you think half their revenue comes from :p
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Whaaa... Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!
I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable. Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing. Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.
It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.
It's very handy for docking. One connector and you have power, USB devices, and monitor. I very much like the idea of that, though I honestly wonder whether I'd bother docking a laptop with a Core M processor (strangely mixed with 8GB of RAM). We shall see what the performance ends up being on this thing.
They’re using a different typeface for the legends:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/jDdYXI3.jpg)
Totally restart your computer to plug in a new keyboard? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Hotswapping PS/2 works fine on Debian. I even did it just now to check.Did you try it in ~1985–1995 on DOS or Windows 3.1, the time-frame and operating systems relevant for comparisons vs. ADB?
Dear Apple,
Please make MacBook with solid area and no keyboard for 60% mechanical users.
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Thanks,
Every Mac user
I think you mean "3% of Mac users" outside the echo chamber of this forum.
Well, okay. Maybe not the solid top option... ;)
I can’t wait until every phone, camera, keyboard, drawing tablet, microphone, MIDI instrument, flash storage stick, printer, projector, car/airplane power jack, LED desk lamp, remote control car, etc. uses the same tiny reversible connector. It’s going to be amazing.What do you mean? Can this connector carry both DC and data at same time? Can you hook usb devices, thunderbolt or whatever display, hard drives, audio interface all running together without suffering delays? It's ok for an ultra portable fashionable computer that will never see much more than it power brick in it life or a SD card reader twice upon a time but then…
Also, stop with the damn serial connector bull****. You'veb been pulling that crap since ADB days.
Whaaa... Are you talking about USB-C? That's the most exciting thing about it!
I can't wait until I can plug a USB cable in upside down or backwards and not worry about having the right USB A, B, Mini, Micro, WTF, etc cable. Being able to use it for network, video, and power is also amazing. Adapters will become dirt cheap once non-Apple products start using it.
It is disappointing that it only has one port, but I'm not planning on buying it anyways, just excited about that it's ushering USB-C in.
Um... actually I believe he was referring to all the proprietary Apple connectors / protocols. I can personally attest to the fact that they are a real PITA for anyone developing a peripheral. ADB, 30-pin dock connector, Lightning, etc. are all proprietary and you have to pay to use them if you develop a peripheral for Apple devices. They also integrated FireWire instead of USB when USB started to become popular and only conceded to adding USB ports when it started to become ubiquitous.
I really applaud the use of the USB-C connector, but they're not the first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1
I wonder if they'll replace the Lightning connector on the iPhones and iPads with USB-C. If they do, it'll be a refreshing dose of reason and common sense for them, but I thnk they're making too much money from peripheral manufacturers who have to pay them $4 per device that has a Lightning connector.
...
Anyways, it's rubber dome. Meh.
...
Anyways, it's rubber dome. Meh.
Nope, it's metal dome.
Anyway, back on topic. I have never felt a steel dome button I like the feel of. They're all a bit like baby food jar lids, "Click-tock", so I doubt this board will feel very good to type on. I suspect it will also not be very kind to fingers. Many phone keyboards (Blackberry, etc) are metal dome.... Of course, being Apple, I'm sure they've made it at least a little better than some of those, but the technology simply does not offer much in the way of tuning the feel.You should try IBM beam spring switches sometime. Not exactly a dome shape, but same basic idea.
Yep, I'll be interested in trying these out just to see how they feel. I think the key travel will be too short for comfort, and the longevity might be pretty bad.
Although Apple says that it has created an all new butterfly mechanism to make typing feel great, the keys felt fairly stiff to me, with such little travel that I wasn't sure if I was really typing. It's as close to typing on a glass tablet screen as you'll get with physical keys, and you have to rely on autocorrect just as much when you're going really fast. I imagine I could get used to it with just a little bit of time, though.
Yuck. I definitely don't get the obsession with thin-ness here. Lightness is nice, but why not trade a few fractions of an inch and a few ounces for some more key travel and maybe putting back in some of the ports they stripped out. *sigh*
What I don't get is the single port idea. Could you at least give me two ports so I can charge and use another peripheral at the same time? I know there are adapters that expand to multiple ports, but those are limited at the moment.
What I don't get is the single port idea. Could you at least give me two ports so I can charge and use another peripheral at the same time?Not without making the whole laptop bigger.
Most of Apple's consumers probably don't give a damn about the feel of the keyboard, and are more concerned with other factors of the device. So lightness, thinness, portability are more important than typing feel.I'm one of their consumers and I type on my Macbook Air a LOT, and I know a lot of people who do the same. It's not a terrible keyboard, honestly. I'm reserving judgement on the new one until I try it, but if that guy is right it sounds kind of bad.
USB Type-C connectors are physically inferior to the Lightning connector in at least one major sense. The female receptacle makes use of a fragile tongue. In contrast, the Lightning male connector is itself the tongue. Also a reminder that Lightning is just a reconfigurable connector and not a serial bus.On the flip side, USB Type C is a EU-mandated standard (at least for phones) that will soon be used by the majority of all gadgets in the world.
They also integrated FireWire instead of USB when USB started to become popular and only conceded to adding USB ports when it started to become ubiquitous.Nah. I think that it was more that they focused more on Firewire ports for as long as it had a speed advantage over USB.
Every computer Apple ever shipped with Firewire had faster Firewire than the same-era USB (and same story with Thunderbolt). I’m sure there are plenty of folks out there who appreciate having the faster bus as an option. Also, there’s no “instead of USB”: Apple has been shipping machines with close to the cutting edge of USB continuously since 1997.
If Apple didn’t exist, I’m guessing USB adoption would be at least a decade behind where it is today, and computer vendors would still be shipping parallel, serial, SCSI, PS/2, VGA, telephone, ethernet, etc. jacks on all their machines. Oh wait, they still are.
Apple have a habit of doing things their own way, forcing people to buy new versions of items they already have due to incompatibility and then doing it all over again. Just look at ADB, the iPhone / iPod 30 pin connector and now FireWire, Thunderbolt and Lightning, all going the way of the dinosaur if they implement USB-C more universally. If instead they had adopted PS/2 alongside USB and Mini/MicroUSB for their portables like all other manufacturers they wouldn't be causing such problems to their own customers.
They also integrated FireWire instead of USB when USB started to become popular and only conceded to adding USB ports when it started to become ubiquitous.
Apple weren't even in the group of companies who came up with the spec and implementation rules of USB and their first machine with USB ports came out in 1998, so on their earlier machines it was "instead of USB". PC motherboards with USB ports had been out a while already.Excuse me, you’re correct, 1998, not 1997. Not sure what I was thinking. Anyway, Steve Jobs came back to Apple in mid-1997. Apple machines pre- vs. post-iMac is two somewhat different eras. During the mid-1990s the company was floundering around, with no clear vision for figuring out a multitasking operating system, or finding new markets for their products. After 1997, well, you know the story.
Apple have a habit of doing things their own way, forcing people to buy new versions of items they already have due to incompatibility and then doing it all over again. Just look at ADB, [...] If instead they had adopted PS/2 alongside USB and Mini/MicroUSB for their portables like all other manufacturers they wouldn't be causing such problems to their own customers.This is nonsense. ADB dates from 1986. PS/2 dates from 1987. ADB is a dramatically better bus. During which historical time frame do you think they should have switched from their own superior bus to the IBM version?
This is all way off-topic, but the other thing about USB-C is that for the first time in a while, Apple seems to be embracing an OPEN standard instead of something like Thunderbolt that requires licensing fees to build into products.You should go ***** at Intel about Thunderbolt licensing requirements.
You should go ***** at Intel about Thunderbolt licensing requirements.
Your point?
They take existing products and make them better (music portables in 2001, smartphones in 2007) or better looking.
Seriously you have to buy a phone to use a watch?
Now back on keys! Anyone touch'em yet?
HHKB too big. Get a JD40/JD45. :)Seriously you have to buy a phone to use a watch?
Now back on keys! Anyone touch'em yet?
I dare say the keyboard will be the deciding factor on whether I replace my 11" MBA with one. Even though it's small, I can't carry my HHKB everywhere...
And so the hunt for hybrid/tablet laptop hackintosh you can use with a mk can begin… I've spotted the core M acer switch 12 which looks like a good candidate :D
e-ink is too high latency to be good for a drawing tablet. Too bad Pixel Qi is dead; a mashup of one of their displays with a Wacom digitizer would be sweet.
In a perfect world, I'd be into a tablet with a USB port sufficient to power an HHKB. iPad ideally, but I'd consider a Surface if it had enough power.
Actually, for my use (writing) the most perfect thing ever would be a high-res e-ink tablet with a mechanical keyboard plugged into it.
e-ink is too high latency to be good for a drawing tablet. Too bad Pixel Qi is dead; a mashup of one of their displays with a Wacom digitizer would be sweet.
Yeah, I don't need a drawing tablet -- just after a nice, clean display for text.
Doesn't the Surface have a color pen?
I had the opportunity to test the macbook keyboard this week end and found it awful,
I had the opportunity to test the macbook keyboard this week end and found it awful,
It's not that bad, considering. It's basically a 55g tactile switch with a .75mm travel. Really odd, but useable.
I wonder how many cycles will it take to break the "flexing" joint in the center
https://youtu.be/dLNHJMHIne8 (https://youtu.be/dLNHJMHIne8)
Oh well. Can't make the video working... Not sure what am I doing wrong.
I had the opportunity to test the macbook keyboard this week end and found it awful,
It's not that bad, considering. It's basically a 55g tactile switch with a .75mm travel. Really odd, but useable.
But as a vi user I will forever resent them for taking away my Esc key. Not cool, Apple. Not cool.
But as a vi user I will forever resent them for taking away my Esc key. Not cool, Apple. Not cool.
Ctrl+[ bruh.. been using that for 10 years, almost never hit the actual escape key anymore (at least not in vi/vim)
After a year with my late 15" MBP Touchbar... I have to agree. I might enjoy typing on the butterfly switches, but they're horribly inconsistent. They get noisier the warmer the laptop gets, and start sticking a little. The touchbar is absolutely useless.
What I would absolutely love would be lower-profile scissors from the Magic Keyboard 2. Typing on that thing is a dream compared to the previous generation Magic Keyboard, and blows away the butterfly switches, no contest.
What is a Magic Keyboard 2 ?
Did they update the design in any way other than the ^ and ⌥ symbols?
Lower-profile and more tactile scissor switches, rechargable battery, lightning connector. About the only thing I don't like about it is they went with full size left and right arrow keys (like on the laptops). But other than that, it's pretty good. The 104 key variant is pretty nice, too (both are wireless).No, that's sounds like the "Magic Keyboard" you are describing. There was no previous "Magic Keyboard" (one) that didn't have a Lightning™ connector.
I may be in the minority, but I actually like the keyboard on the 2017 MacBook Pro. I was worried after reading all the hate for them online, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I tried one. It doesn't have much travel but it is snappy and responsive and it has a satisfying "pop" sound.
After using it for a few hours, I switched back to my 2012 MacBook Air and the key switches felt like I was pressing down on pieces of foam. It felt very mushy.
The touch bar is a neat party trick. I could do without it, but I don't regret getting one.
I take it that you are just confused. You are not the only one though. You can find used Apple Wireless Keyboard for sale on auction sites here and there advertised as "Magic Keyboard". It is not.
The only revision of the Magic Keyboard I have heard about is that they would have changed the printing on Control and Option keys slightly in 2017. But I'm not sure whether they added ^ and ⌥ symbols or removed them.
I may be in the minority, but I actually like the keyboard on the 2017 MacBook Pro. I was worried after reading all the hate for them online, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I tried one. It doesn't have much travel but it is snappy and responsive and it has a satisfying "pop" sound.
After using it for a few hours, I switched back to my 2012 MacBook Air and the key switches felt like I was pressing down on pieces of foam. It felt very mushy.
The touch bar is a neat party trick. I could do without it, but I don't regret getting one.
They definitely improved it since the first rMB version (which is truly abysmal), and I think that auditory feedback does a lot to make up for the shallow key travel. I've gone back and forth between a Magic Keyboard, which is basically like yours, and the MacBook Air keyboard, and I still prefer the latter vastly because I like the travel.
There are also quite a few people, apparently, seeing severe issues with newer MacBook keyboards failing -- and the replacement seems to necessitate replacing the entire top case and costs like $500 if not under AppleCare. That drive to make the MacBooks thinner and thinner is really starting to seem like a mistake to me.
Louis Rossmann's rant about the quality of the keyboards:
Louis Rossmann's rant about the quality of the keyboards:
I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.
Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.
My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.
I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.
Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.
My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.
Time to upgrade to L3n0v0, the laptop of the p00r .
I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.
Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.
My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.
The other thing they really screwed up on the new ones is getting rid of the "inverted T" arrow layout that lets you quickly orient your fingers by touch. For whatever idiot reason they made the ↑ and ↓ keys full-height so they're very hard to feel your way to. Idiots.
The other thing they really screwed up on the new ones is getting rid of the "inverted T" arrow layout that lets you quickly orient your fingers by touch. For whatever idiot reason they made the ↑ and ↓ keys full-height so they're very hard to feel your way to. Idiots.
I always mess that up, but the problem for me isn't the up and down arrows--it's the left and right arrows.
On my 2010 MBP all the arrow keys are the same size, but on the 2016 MBP the left and right arrows are the same size as the main keys. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I can never find them via touch, and I use that computer almost exclusively come times for midterms and finals.
My "V" issue returned, as predicted by those haunted by the issue
I'm looking for a mechanical to latch on the Macbook itself, I'll likely 3D print a basic adapter that slides from sides, has soft paddings on bottom etc. for long term use - I originally bought an XD84 kit but the seller didn't ship it, considering TADA68 etc. but not very ideal
The TEX 60% cases seem to clear the keyboard too, I have an abundance of those built, but it just barely clears, and I can't think of a design of an easy latch on system, I'll likely take one with me next time I'm going to use the device in a portable manner
If anyone attempts such a venture, go for silent switches :)
Do they just do this for cost-saving measures? There's plenty of space for a full-size, inverted-T arrow cluster if it goes 1 row further out. This used to be common.
My ThinkPad does this, although the keys are still like 75% the size of normal (but same shape).