Author Topic: 40% dimensions  (Read 9131 times)

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Offline skiwithpete

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40% dimensions
« on: Sat, 31 January 2015, 14:50:21 »
Hey guys,
We're planning on making a prototype sleeve for 40% keyboards, eventually to sell on http://1upkeyboards.com

What we don't have is the dimensions of a popular 40% with keycaps on. From looking around, it seems that the JD40 is a pretty popular board to base it on...  But if you have any 40% board can you post length, width and height - with caps?

If you guys could let us know, that would be awesome.

Thanks,

P
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 08:32:32 »
How accurate do you need the measurements to be?  I don't have callipers but have a ruler if that's any use.

Also which keycaps do you want to fit it for?  The difference between SA and row 2 DCS is going to be quite significant percentage wise as it's so small :)
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Offline sethk_

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 08:35:02 »

How accurate do you need the measurements to be?  I don't have callipers but have a ruler if that's any use.

Also which keycaps do you want to fit it for?  The difference between SA and row 2 DCS is going to be quite significant percentage wise as it's so small :)
It's a case, so it should have some wiggle room.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 08:41:52 »
Do your own research. This sub forum is for making things together not helping you sell cases.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 February 2015, 08:43:51 by SpAmRaY »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 08:48:35 »

How accurate do you need the measurements to be?  I don't have callipers but have a ruler if that's any use.

Also which keycaps do you want to fit it for?  The difference between SA and row 2 DCS is going to be quite significant percentage wise as it's so small :)
It's a case, so it should have some wiggle room.

Good point, should have looked at their website first - it's not supposed to fit snugly so accuracy is not too important.

I measure it as 95mm wide, 250mm long and 40mm tall to the top of a row 3 SA cap (the tallest I have) :)
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Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 09:07:54 »

I measure it as 95mm wide, 250mm long and 40mm tall to the top of a row 3 SA cap (the tallest I have) :)


That's awesome, thanks for your help.

P
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Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 13:14:55 »
PS I'm leaving this up just in case someone else has a 40% with a different size - either larger or smaller.

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Offline neverused

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 14:48:56 »
Do your own research. This sub forum is for making things together not helping you sell cases.
+1

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 15:06:06 »
Do your own research. This sub forum is for making things together not helping you sell cases.
+1

Should I have asked in a different sub?

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 15:11:47 »
Do your own research. This sub forum is for making things together not helping you sell cases.
+1

Should I have asked in a different sub?
Well the proper way to do things since your only goal in coming here seems to be to promote your cases would be to do your own research. The information is out there.

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 15:27:05 »
Do your own research. This sub forum is for making things together not helping you sell cases.
+1

Should I have asked in a different sub?
Well the proper way to do things since your only goal in coming here seems to be to promote your cases would be to do your own research. The information is out there.

Oh, hey SpAmRaY, how you going?

I couldn't find it after looking on both CTRL-ALT and here at GH.  I also asked on the other forum that I'm a member of, but no one answered - so I thought I could ask over here.

Do you have a link, for the dimensions of a completed 40% with keycaps on it?

Cheers,

P
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 15:55:47 »
I don't do research for vendors and neither should anyone else. That's part of being a vendor.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 16:02:08 »
I couldn't find it after looking on both CTRL-ALT and here at GH.  I also asked on the other forum that I'm a member of, but no one answered - so I thought I could ask over here.

Do you have a link, for the dimensions of a completed 40% with keycaps on it?

Cheers,

P



Hmmm, well I guess that could be because, as Ray pointed out, you only come here to sell your wares, not to participate as a member or engage in the forum in any other way.

Google is our friend: "site:geekhack.org jd40 dimensions"

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:geekhack.org+jd40+dimensions

First link: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61202.0

Going to that topic, and looking at the last page in the thread, you would find this message I wrote there:

PCB is a rectangle, 9.00 inches by 3.00 inches. Our plate extends that to 9-3/4" x 3-5/8". Clearance between the bottom of the 0.060" thick plate and the base should be minimum 1/2" at the front for the Teensy.

USB mini jack is located on the bottom of the PCB, centered between the first two keys on the top row.
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Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:17:21 »
PCB is a rectangle, 9.00 inches by 3.00 inches. Our plate extends that to 9-3/4" x 3-5/8". Clearance between the bottom of the 0.060" thick plate and the base should be minimum 1/2" at the front for the Teensy.

USB mini jack is located on the bottom of the PCB, centered between the first two keys on the top row.

Thanks, but, specifically I was asking about the height including keycaps. 

Which I was unable to find, so I asked.

Thanks,

P






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Offline neverused

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:38:41 »
You should be able to account for the height of the keycaps yourself. You're making a felt lined sock with a draw string, it's not that hard.

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:50:10 »
You should be able to account for the height of the keycaps yourself. You're making a felt lined sock with a draw string, it's not that hard.

Really?

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Offline HPE1000

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:51:53 »
You should be able to account for the height of the keycaps yourself. You're making a felt lined sock with a draw string, it's not that hard.

Really?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:53:31 »
I'll measure key caps for you, $20 per cap profile, I've got at least 5 different profiles.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:53:35 »
Do what most people who make things do, either borrow one from someone or buy one yourself and use it as a model to base your cases off of.  It's not fair to ask people to do all the research for you to make and sell something. 

I'll measure key caps for you, $20 per cap profile, I've got at least 5 different profiles.


I like the way you think.

And it's all or nothing with the profiles, right?
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:55:50 by nubbinator »

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:54:57 »
You should be able to account for the height of the keycaps yourself. You're making a felt lined sock with a draw string, it's not that hard.

Really?
Show Image


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Offline neverused

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:57:31 »
You should be able to account for the height of the keycaps yourself. You're making a felt lined sock with a draw string, it's not that hard.

Really?
Was I somehow unclear? You have images of a keyboard on your site. Measure the height of the keycaps on that and add it to the dimensions jd gave you.

Our would you like one of us to make the socks for you and you could sell them too?

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 22:58:47 »
Do what most people who make things do, either borrow one from someone or buy one yourself and use it as a model to base your cases off of.  It's not fair to ask people to do all the research for you to make and sell something. 

I'll measure key caps for you, $20 per cap profile, I've got at least 5 different profiles.


I like the way you think.

And it's all or nothing with the profiles, right?

I like you guys.  You're spunky. 

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:00:45 »
Do what most people who make things do, either borrow one from someone or buy one yourself and use it as a model to base your cases off of.  It's not fair to ask people to do all the research for you to make and sell something. 

I'll measure key caps for you, $20 per cap profile, I've got at least 5 different profiles.


I like the way you think.

And it's all or nothing with the profiles, right?

I like you guys.  You're spunky.
Gotta be honest the feeling isn't mutual.

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:04:24 »
Do what most people who make things do, either borrow one from someone or buy one yourself and use it as a model to base your cases off of.  It's not fair to ask people to do all the research for you to make and sell something. 

I'll measure key caps for you, $20 per cap profile, I've got at least 5 different profiles.


I like the way you think.

And it's all or nothing with the profiles, right?

I like you guys.  You're spunky.
Gotta be honest the feeling isn't mutual.

No, don't worry SpAmRaY, I get it. 

Thanks btw for asking me to make prototypes of bags for you and your HHKB and Numpad.  I really appreciate you asking for that, then trolling me, here and on Reddit. 

Shall I post the request you made in your PM? 


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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:06:09 »
Our would you like one of us to make the socks for you and you could sell them too?

:))
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Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:09:01 »
Our would you like one of us to make the socks for you and you could sell them too?

:))

I'm not Massdrop.  I'm a maker.
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Offline neverused

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:20:39 »
Our would you like one of us to make the socks for you and you could sell them too?

:))

I'm not Massdrop.  I'm a maker.
Then do your job. Find the jd45 thread, look at ron's images with the jd40 in them, use the dimensions you have been provided so far, and extrapolate the height with keycaps. They look like SA profile caps so you won't likely go gallery than that.

(You can lead a horse to water...)
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:24:27 by neverused »

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:26:29 »

Then do your job. Find the jd45 thread, look at ron's images with the jd40 in them, use the dimensions you have been provided so far, and extrapolate the height with keycaps. They look like SA predictor caps so you won't likely go gallery than that.

(You can lead a horse to water...)

eh?

I was given the answer earlier in this very topic.  SuicidalOrange said it earlier.  And I thanked him.  I just decided to leave the topic open in case someone wanted to add anything...

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Offline neverused

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:28:53 »
Then I hope he gets a commission for each 40% sock you sell.

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:41:40 »
Then I hope he gets a commission for each 40% sock you sell.

For measuring his keyboard he already has the satisfaction of helping out a community member, but beyond that is for me and him to work out - but I appreciate your suggestion too.

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Offline nubbinator

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:42:32 »
Then I hope he gets a commission for each 40% sock you sell.

For measuring his keyboard he already has the satisfaction of helping out a community member, but beyond that is for me and him to work out - but I appreciate your suggestion too.

As you've already pointed out, you're not a community member, you're a maker.  A community member contributes to the community.  All I've seen you do is try and sell **** to the community.

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:48:20 »
Then I hope he gets a commission for each 40% sock you sell.

For measuring his keyboard he already has the satisfaction of helping out a community member, but beyond that is for me and him to work out - but I appreciate your suggestion too.

As you've already pointed out, you're not a community member, you're a maker.  A community member contributes to the community.  All I've seen you do is try and sell **** to the community.

Your tag says you're a maker.  I assumes that means you're not a member of the community?

This thread is about me trying to find information so I can make something.  I'm not trying to sell you anything.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:49:44 »
I am a member of the community AND a maker.  You can be one or the other or both.  My post count alone is enough to show I'm an active member.

And you're only trying to find information to make something you can sell.

Offline skiwithpete

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:55:53 »
I am a member of the community AND a maker.  You can be one or the other or both.  My post count alone is enough to show I'm an active member.

And you're only trying to find information to make something you can sell.

I'm only new here.  I wasn't hiding that I was looking for information to make sleeves.  That's what I make.

I've used this forum to contact some of my heroes, like The_Beast, who has been very kind in sharing help and advice.

But yeah, you guys are pretty agro and so I'm trying to find my way to being a member of the community at the same time as doing what I like to do which is to make.  At the moment, it's making bags.

And, yeah, if I don't sell them, I end up with an apartment full of them (which is kinda happening now to be honest).

Unfortunately, I'm not new to Mechanical keyboards - so I don't need to ask all the newb questions here.  But I'm not so advanced that I can help a lot of people with their questions.  So I'm still just trying to find my place...

Let's be honest, it hasn't been a smooth ride.

P
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 01 February 2015, 23:59:09 »
If you want to be a member, contribute.  Some of my first posts were info about casting and how to make your own USB cables.  Diving in with your first couple of posts about selling stuff isn't really the way to really make yourself loved here.  Maybe do a giveaway, or just do normal posts.  If you show you actually want to be a member, people won't be giving you ****.  If all you do is try and figure out how to make money, you'll keep getting flak.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 02 February 2015, 01:41:26 »
I'm only new here.  I wasn't hiding that I was looking for information to make sleeves.  That's what I make. [...] But yeah, you guys are pretty agro [...] Let's be honest, it hasn't been a smooth ride.
In general, this whole forum is mostly a community site, not a sales venue, and many of the members here don’t really want to mix too much commercialization into the fabric of the forum, because it’s seen to cheapen the culture of the community. There are specific subforums for selling stuff (under the “geekhack marketplace” section), and advertisements/commercial activity mostly stays contained there. If you had made a post advertising your sleeves under the “artisan services” subforum, you’d have no problem. Alternately, in the “keyboards” subforum there’s a thread called “simple questions, simple answers” which is a great place for one-line questions like yours.

“Making stuff together”, however, is a subforum mostly devoted to people’s construction process, and documenting and sharing advice about stuff we’ve made, for others to learn from. If you browse through the posts here, you’ll see people have put an incredible amount of effort into sharing their deep knowledge, with how-to guides on restoring old keyboards, reverse engineering old keyboard protocols, modding keyboards to include new features, building new cases for old boards, building brand new keyboards from scratch, molding custom-shaped keycaps, producing wrist rests in various materials, sleeving cables, etc. etc.

I suspect you can figure out how if a newcomer with no history or reputation posts a lazy question with an advertising-y link to a commercial website here, it might turn people off. It’s similar to the response you get if you go to a scientists’ forum and you ask how to do your undergrad homework problem.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 02 February 2015, 02:17:59 »
But to take things in a more positive direction, welcome. I’m sure if you stick around you’ll learn how things work around here, and how to avoid getting on people’s prickly side.

This community is usually forgiving, enthusiastic, and friendly (except the “off topic” section, which is a wretched hive of scum and villainy :P). If you contribute and engage with it, there’s a ton to learn.

Offline Oobly

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 02 February 2015, 02:25:36 »
There is no standard 40% size form factor and people will put all kinds of keycap on theirs, so this is not going to be so easy.

I'd include enough space to fit a JD45 with standoff-style case and contoured SA profile keycaps, since that's about the largest "standard" 40% size. Also, most people will use DSA keycaps since they're the easiest to fit due to the layouts.

Welcome to GeekHack!

(IMHO, it would only be fair to actually buy a JD40 or JD45 to take dimensions from if you're making a commercial product designed for it. One of the reasons people may be upset about the way you've gone about this is that this is a community and if we think someone could be taking advantage of a member's work for their own profit without first consulting that member or giving credit where it is due, we get protective.)
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 02 February 2015, 03:17:14 »
Then I hope he gets a commission for each 40% sock you sell.

For measuring his keyboard he already has the satisfaction of helping out a community member, but beyond that is for me and him to work out - but I appreciate your suggestion too.

It took less than a minute, I spend much longer helping newbies with matrix questions and they don't give me anything...

As I see it people are more likely to support JD/[CTRL]ALT (by buying 40% boards) if there is a case available so by helping Pete everyone wins :)

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Offline ekw808

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 05 February 2015, 11:40:43 »
Lesson 1. How to do it wrong
    Step 1: Respond to all jabs about your product in a passive aggressive manner, immediately.
    Step 2: Ignore all genuine posts from other members on how contribute to the community.
    Step 3: Repeat.
[One Keyboard at a time]

My Heatware Please comment, and I will do the same =D 

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 05 February 2015, 11:59:54 »
Do what most people who make things do, either borrow one from someone or buy one yourself and use it as a model to base your cases off of.  It's not fair to ask people to do all the research for you to make and sell something. 

I'll measure key caps for you, $20 per cap profile, I've got at least 5 different profiles.


I like the way you think.

And it's all or nothing with the profiles, right?

I like you guys.  You're spunky.
Gotta be honest the feeling isn't mutual.

No, don't worry SpAmRaY, I get it. 

Thanks btw for asking me to make prototypes of bags for you and your HHKB and Numpad.  I really appreciate you asking for that, then trolling me, here and on Reddit. 

Shall I post the request you made in your PM? 




No, you don't get it. And post a personal mesage I sent you? Really? Is that supposed to be a threat?

I pm'd you before you went on your whole '2 months membership is dumb, I just want to sell, wahhhhhh!, oh by by the way in every thread I make I'm going to now mention go to my website blahblahbalh.'

 Honestly I was all for a new member coming in and attempting something new which is exactly why I pm'd you my request but then you sort of went sideways and can't wrap your head around the fact community comes before consumerism around here, once I saw your website and prices I knew what you call a case is not what I call a case so at that point the request I made was null and void.

Oh and since you want to post PM's here ya go

I'm interested in a carrying case that could accommodate a HHKB and a 23U numberpad.

Here is a photo of the boards



Hey,

Are the HHKBs the same size as the PokerIIs?

You haven't modded that so the boards are stuck together have you? 

When you think about the bag, are you thinking about two bags, or a bag with a pouch?  Or just a really long sleeve?

Thanks for your interest.

P

HHKB dimensions 294 x 110 x 39.9mm (11.6 x 4.3 x 1.6in) the realforce 23u number pad Dimensions: 93 × 152 × 37 mm (3.6 x 6.0 x 1.5in)

comparison i found courtesy of google of a hhkb and poker



And no they are two separate things and ideally the case would allow them to sit side by side just like on the desk perhaps with a small built in divider between them so they don't rub each other OR a double sided case where one is on one side and one on the other.

perhaps you could get some inspiration from here https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cases&pid=pdkb01sd#

that case above is nice however only the one side is padded of course i'm not sure on your pricing, this all could be too costly.

Hey SpAmRay,

We tried a couple of different prototypes to have the HHKB and the numpad side-by-side or, like you said, with a divider.

For our tests we did a Poker II and a CM switch tester.

So, the divider thing didn't really work out, it meant we had an opening at either end of the bag and it didn't carry well. 

Next we looked at a sleeve, where the two sat beside each other.  But, I was worried they would scratch so, we put the tester inside a second sleeve inside the main one...  And either the main sleeve was too loose for the Poker or too tight for the tester.

Ultimately, we think the best thing would be to get two individual pouches.  And, then put those into your rucksack or briefcase.

But then I discovered that you're the fella whose chasing me on Reddit and Geekhack complaining about my prices and that I'm just trying to sell bags.  So - in the end - I doubt very much that you'll be interested in buying the bags, but we did learn something along the way, and we'll likely apply it as we move forward.

P


Sorry I would have replied and told you to forget about it to save you from wasting your time if I had of known you were going to reply 3 weeks later.

Oh and I gave you a really hard time on reddit to :facepalm:

PS: Since you hate the rules here so much maybe you should just leave??

89829-0

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 06 February 2015, 07:42:06 »
Hehehe... can't help but notice: criticised by GH for asking for help to design his products and attempting to get free exposure / marketing without putting in time to become a member of the community...

"wikified" by ripster...

Business rules #41234: use emotional response to get a leg up.

^^^^^^^^^^^ just joking, really.. Hang around here, make a few posts in threads that interest you, see if GH is the place for you. If it is, great, you'll start to see what the "community" thing here is all about. If not, move on.

...
It took less than a minute, I spend much longer helping newbies with matrix questions and they don't give me anything...

As I see it people are more likely to support JD/[CTRL]ALT (by buying 40% boards) if there is a case available so by helping Pete everyone wins :)



Helping noobs with questions, yup, we all do that. Part of what makes this site so awesome. But it's a far cry from helping someone design a commercial product based on another member's product. There should at the very least be communication between the product designers before asking in the same forum the keyboard designer is an active and well-respected member of.

Anyway, at least the whole thing is out in the open, the rules are known and let's see how things progres.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline derezzed

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 298
Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 07 February 2015, 01:37:45 »
Lesson 1. How to do it wrong
    Step 1: Respond to all jabs about your product in a passive aggressive manner, immediately.

Their terms and conditions clearly state "We'll be nice, but only if you're nice."

His approach may be crass, but least they gave us this gem "It's a standard custom fit."

Offline skiwithpete

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 29
Re: 40% dimensions
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 07 February 2015, 19:59:09 »
Thank you all for taking the time to post in this thread.

Co-Founder of 1upkeyboards.com

QFR Brown + PokerII Clear