Apple's new butterfly keyboard switches

[Findecanor]

What is a Magic Keyboard 2 ?
Did they update the design in any way other than the ^ and ⌥ symbols?

[daerid]

What is a Magic Keyboard 2 ?
Did they update the design in any way other than the ^ and ⌥ symbols?

Lower-profile and more tactile scissor switches, rechargable battery, lightning connector. About the only thing I don't like about it is they went with full size left and right arrow keys (like on the laptops). But other than that, it's pretty good. The 104 key variant is pretty nice, too (both are wireless).

[Findecanor]

Lower-profile and more tactile scissor switches, rechargable battery, lightning connector. About the only thing I don't like about it is they went with full size left and right arrow keys (like on the laptops). But other than that, it's pretty good. The 104 key variant is pretty nice, too (both are wireless).

No, that's sounds like the "Magic Keyboard" you are describing. There was no previous "Magic Keyboard" (one) that didn't have a Lightning™ connector.

The previous wireless keyboard was called Apple Wireless Keyboard, like previous wireless keyboards for Mac from Apple.

I take it that you are just confused. You are not the only one though. You can find used Apple Wireless Keyboard for sale on auction sites here and there advertised as "Magic Keyboard". It is not.

The only revision of the Magic Keyboard I have heard about is that they would have changed the printing on Control and Option keys slightly in 2017. But I'm not sure whether they added ^ and ⌥ symbols or removed them.

[Rayoui]

I may be in the minority, but I actually like the keyboard on the 2017 MacBook Pro. I was worried after reading all the hate for them online, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I tried one. It doesn't have much travel but it is snappy and responsive and it has a satisfying "pop" sound.

After using it for a few hours, I switched back to my 2012 MacBook Air and the key switches felt like I was pressing down on pieces of foam. It felt very mushy.

The touch bar is a neat party trick. I could do without it, but I don't regret getting one.

[TopreFan333]

I may be in the minority, but I actually like the keyboard on the 2017 MacBook Pro. I was worried after reading all the hate for them online, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I tried one. It doesn't have much travel but it is snappy and responsive and it has a satisfying "pop" sound.

After using it for a few hours, I switched back to my 2012 MacBook Air and the key switches felt like I was pressing down on pieces of foam. It felt very mushy.

The touch bar is a neat party trick. I could do without it, but I don't regret getting one.

They definitely improved it since the first rMB version (which is truly abysmal), and I think that auditory feedback does a lot to make up for the shallow key travel. I've gone back and forth between a Magic Keyboard, which is basically like yours, and the MacBook Air keyboard, and I still prefer the latter vastly because I like the travel.

There are also quite a few people, apparently, seeing severe issues with newer MacBook keyboards failing -- and the replacement seems to necessitate replacing the entire top case and costs like $500 if not under AppleCare. That drive to make the MacBooks thinner and thinner is really starting to seem like a mistake to me.

[Blaise170]

For a laptop keyboard, the 2017 MBP is actually really nice. My work gave me a brand new one with the Touchbar and though I hated Macs before, I can't really complain too much. It's close enough to Linux to make programming easy and a small learning curve, while having the software support of a large development community. The switches feel kind of bad after using my Matias board all day, but that's to be expected.

[daerid]

I take it that you are just confused. You are not the only one though. You can find used Apple Wireless Keyboard for sale on auction sites here and there advertised as "Magic Keyboard". It is not.

The only revision of the Magic Keyboard I have heard about is that they would have changed the printing on Control and Option keys slightly in 2017. But I'm not sure whether they added ^ and ⌥ symbols or removed them.

Yeah it seems you're right. Probably didn't help things that the mouse and trackpad were both "Magic Mouse/Trackpad 2", but the keyboard was just "Magic Keyboard". Might have been a better branding move on Apple's part if all the peripherals had similar naming (Magic * 2)

[Rayoui]

I may be in the minority, but I actually like the keyboard on the 2017 MacBook Pro. I was worried after reading all the hate for them online, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I tried one. It doesn't have much travel but it is snappy and responsive and it has a satisfying "pop" sound.

After using it for a few hours, I switched back to my 2012 MacBook Air and the key switches felt like I was pressing down on pieces of foam. It felt very mushy.

The touch bar is a neat party trick. I could do without it, but I don't regret getting one.

They definitely improved it since the first rMB version (which is truly abysmal), and I think that auditory feedback does a lot to make up for the shallow key travel. I've gone back and forth between a Magic Keyboard, which is basically like yours, and the MacBook Air keyboard, and I still prefer the latter vastly because I like the travel.

There are also quite a few people, apparently, seeing severe issues with newer MacBook keyboards failing -- and the replacement seems to necessitate replacing the entire top case and costs like $500 if not under AppleCare. That drive to make the MacBooks thinner and thinner is really starting to seem like a mistake to me.

Ifixit did a teardown of the magic keyboard. Looks like it uses the traditional scissor mechanism and silicone domes with reduced travel over the old version. The new MacBook keyboard has metal domes which is what gives it that snappy feel.

Not sure about longevity. Luckily, I have three years of AppleCare. 

[ander]

When I saw this, my first thought was "Terminator vagina".

[keylabskeycaps]

Honestly, as far as scissor mechanism keyboards go, I really don't mind my old 2010 macbook unibody. Granted, its no substitute for a quality mechanical keyboard, but I as a heavily upgraded daily driver it does it's job without a problem. I'd be interested to try out the "new" mechanism and see how it holds up.

[Deefenestrate]

Why I have a Dell XPS 13.

[KHAANNN]

I started carrying my Macbook around, I used too have a Macbook Air for school/carrying around etc., never used to carry my actual device, but it turned out to be fun and productive while it lasted

For some time I was wondering why "CMD+V" doesn't work with the built-in keyboard, today, when I was using the device for some light stuff, it started bothering me a lot, it then dawned on me that it could be "V" that is problematic, and traumatically, indeed it is

Then stumbled onto this: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8106230 - 100 times more traumatic

It seems the Butterfly keyboard is pretty problematic, while writing this, I noticed that my "O" key is also similarly problematic, don't know why but it seems a decay has started, both keys only work only if you hit or press it super strongly, rather than tapping the key - I have a US device in TR, probably can't get it easily serviced, even if it was possible, I read that the service takes 5 days and the entire upper body gets changed

It's such a F* Apple moment, I had to buy this device because the previous one had it's battery swollen right after installing High Sierra, and now this stupidly annoying keyboard issue ...

(Edit: If it happens to anyone, applying a lot of pressure to the key seems to fix/delay the issue)

[KHAANNN]

This looks promising https://www.change.org/p/apple-apple-recall-macbook-pro-w-defective-keyboard-replace-with-different-working-keyboard

[Findecanor]

Louis Rossmann's rant about the quality of the keyboards:

[KHAANNN]

Louis Rossmann's rant about the quality of the keyboards:

Well, watching the video, seems pretty unlikely they'd easily acknowledge the issue

Luckily my "hard pressing" solved the issue for me, curious how things are going to turn out, even if they provide free replacements, the replacement process itself is quite destructive, I wouldn't want a machine that has gone through all that :| - If they provide an upgrade path, that'd be good

I was going to buy an XD75 to put on the Macbook, from specs it seemed like it would fit,  but got scammed by the Aliexpress seller, didn't send it :| - Probably the easiest solution is to find a robust way to integrate a mechanical onto the Macbook

I don't get why they try making the keyboard this slim, it's a ~portable workstation, it could weight 5kg's, be thick as hell, and I wouldn't mind, would be nice if it had those old Alps Apple keyboards on it instead

Edit: I think the issue is more of a contact issue, at least it feels like it, tho, none of the commenters on the issue actually investigates the issue

[tp4tissue]

Louis Rossmann's rant about the quality of the keyboards:

Yea.. bad keebs..  but how else am one suppose to attract the Females @ the Library/ Coffee shop ?

Everyone knows lenovo is for p00r people like Tp4.

Apple's main market share is not tech enthusiast,   it's Vanity driven illiterates.. 

There's a distinct purpose to buying apple which no other company offers. The #1 Label..

[romevi]

I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.

Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.

My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.

[tp4tissue]

I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.

Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.

My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.

Time to upgrade to L3n0v0, the laptop of the p00r .

[KHAANNN]

I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.

Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.

My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.

Time to upgrade to L3n0v0, the laptop of the p00r .

No poor people in this thread plx

[Blaise170]

I really don't think the new switches are bad at all, typing this on a 2017 MBP.

[KHAANNN]

Update - Class action law suit

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/11/apple-hit-with-action-suit-over-macbook-macbook-pro-butterfly-keyboard-failures

[TopreFan333]

I HATE THIS FREAKING STUPID KEYBOARD.

Typing on a 2016 touchbar MBP right now. I'm using it for finals as it has Word and the exam software my school uses. Otherwise, I wouldn't. It's my wife's computer and she even prefers using her older MacBook Air, and she's no keyboard enthusiast by any means.

My main laptop is my 2010 MBP with Linux installed. Love those keys.

Typing on a 2012 MBP right now. It's a solid keyboard. The other thing they really screwed up on the new ones is getting rid of the "inverted T" arrow layout that lets you quickly orient your fingers by touch. For whatever idiot reason they made the ↑ and ↓ keys full-height so they're very hard to feel your way to. Idiots.

[romevi]

The other thing they really screwed up on the new ones is getting rid of the "inverted T" arrow layout that lets you quickly orient your fingers by touch. For whatever idiot reason they made the ↑ and ↓ keys full-height so they're very hard to feel your way to. Idiots.

I always mess that up, but the problem for me isn't the up and down arrows--it's the left and right arrows.
On my 2010 MBP all the arrow keys are the same size, but on the 2016 MBP the left and right arrows are the same size as the main keys. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I can never find them via touch, and I use that computer almost exclusively come times for midterms and finals.

[KHAANNN]

My "V" issue returned, as predicted by those haunted by the issue

I'm looking for a mechanical to latch on the Macbook itself, I'll likely 3D print a basic adapter that slides from sides, has soft paddings on bottom etc. for long term use - I originally bought an XD84 kit but the seller didn't ship it, considering TADA68 etc. but not very ideal

The TEX 60% cases seem to clear the keyboard too, I have an abundance of those built, but it just barely clears, and I can't think of a design of an easy latch on system, I'll likely take one with me next time I'm going to use the device in a portable manner

If anyone attempts such a venture, go for silent switches

[Altis]

The other thing they really screwed up on the new ones is getting rid of the "inverted T" arrow layout that lets you quickly orient your fingers by touch. For whatever idiot reason they made the ↑ and ↓ keys full-height so they're very hard to feel your way to. Idiots.

I always mess that up, but the problem for me isn't the up and down arrows--it's the left and right arrows.
On my 2010 MBP all the arrow keys are the same size, but on the 2016 MBP the left and right arrows are the same size as the main keys. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I can never find them via touch, and I use that computer almost exclusively come times for midterms and finals.

Do they just do this for cost-saving measures? There's plenty of space for a full-size, inverted-T arrow cluster if it goes 1 row further out. This used to be common.

My ThinkPad does this, although the keys are still like 75% the size of normal (but same shape).

[ag36]

My "V" issue returned, as predicted by those haunted by the issue

I'm looking for a mechanical to latch on the Macbook itself, I'll likely 3D print a basic adapter that slides from sides, has soft paddings on bottom etc. for long term use - I originally bought an XD84 kit but the seller didn't ship it, considering TADA68 etc. but not very ideal

The TEX 60% cases seem to clear the keyboard too, I have an abundance of those built, but it just barely clears, and I can't think of a design of an easy latch on system, I'll likely take one with me next time I'm going to use the device in a portable manner

If anyone attempts such a venture, go for silent switches

Hows about keep things simple and get a bigger laptop case to carry you keyboard?

[KHAANNN]

My keyboard is an 60% anyway, but to use it portably, as you'd use a laptop, I think the keyboard should somehow be latched onto the device, or it needs to be as wide as the speakers of the macbook, so the rubbers sit on the speakers, I think it's a fruitless pursuit tho - better not to advertise you're a psycho to bystanders by putting a mechanical on a portable device

As someone who's obsessed with arrows on 60%'s, the arrow layout didn't bother me for some reason, I'd guess they made it that way as a design feature, but obviously, their design decisions around the keyboard almost all suck lately

[Rayoui]

Do they just do this for cost-saving measures? There's plenty of space for a full-size, inverted-T arrow cluster if it goes 1 row further out. This used to be common.

My ThinkPad does this, although the keys are still like 75% the size of normal (but same shape).

My assumption is that they did it for visual aesthetic. Apple is very concerned about the appearance of their products so they likely just did it for the sake of symmetry.

I preferred the half-size left and right arrows on the older laptops but I don't have too much trouble with the new design.

I don't mind the feel of the butterfly switches on my 2017 MBP. In fact, I kind of like them. They feel "poppy" and responsive. The noise is not as bad as people make it out to be, certainly not when compared to just about any mechanical board. That said, I haven't yet experienced any issues with stuck keys or repeating characters. If that were to happen, my opinion would certainly change.

[KHAANNN]

My suggestion for you guys to keep dust out of your devices, keep lids closed (Apple's unofficial suggestion is to use an air spray for example, which supports the theories around dust)

My device just sits on the desk 7/24, lid open, dust settles onto the device no matter what, I suspect it could have caused the issue

[Blaise170]

To be fair I only use my MBP 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. And the majority of the time it's sitting on a stand next to my actual keyboard. I still don't mind it though.

[rich1051414]

https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/12/apple-keyboard-lawsuit/