Artisans, trading vs. selling

[mniels]

First of all, I am reasonably new to this community, I am just genuinely curious about why most people keep their most highly valued items (be it monetarily or otherwise) available for trade only rather than for sale.  It seems to me that this lessens the opportunities to acquire what you want.

For instance, if you have something to trade and are only looking for a few things in particular, the pool of people you can deal with shrinks dramatically. You can only hope that there is someone out there who wants exactly what you have as well as having exactly what you want (one exception that I could see would be blind box sales where people want to trade colors, etc. depending on what they have received.)

I would think that it would be easier to do a straight sale and sock that money away until someone lists an item that you want. That way you don't have to worry about two different individuals meeting each other's criteria, it is just a simple sale.

As an example, person A has something person B wants, and person B has something person C wants. Then C has something A wants.  Unless you are able to coordinate a deal between all three of you at the same time, then no one gets what they want. I suppose that A and B could trade, but by the time those goods are received, the item that C has to trade with A might not be available any longer.  Sorry, that gave me a headache. 😳

Another issue would be for noobs like me who are trying to grow their collection but find themselves in a bit of a Catch 22.  Unable to trade for something because you cannot buy anything to trade with.  Granted, this is not always the case, but it has already come up several times with me personally after seeing something I would like to buy.

Trading does makes more sense to me if you simply want to keep flipping items in and out of your collection without having to deal with money.  I personally would probably not go that route as I usually want to grow a collection rather than keep it static.

Any thoughts on this? Maybe it is trade value vs. cash value?  Just the way it has always been done?

[joey]

People can list caps for trade, even if they actually want to keep them. That way if someone offers you a cap you like more than the current one, you can take the trade. But you wouldn't want to sell it.. then you don't have a cap.

[romevi]

Just have patience and accept the things you cannot acquire.
Helps me stay sane and my wallet healthy (for the most part).

For about a year I was completely content acquiring artisans directly through sales only. My collection was rather varied and large. Yes, there were caps I wanted which were long past sales, but I told myself I'd get them later. Later, later.
I tell myself there will always be sales in the future with other attractive designs/colors. I got into artisans in late 2105, which is when the surge really started to hit. Now we have an exorbitant amount to choose from, and I think that's great.

[mniels]

People can list caps for trade, even if they actually want to keep them. That way if someone offers you a cap you like more than the current one, you can take the trade. But you wouldn't want to sell it.. then you don't have a cap.

Just have patience and accept the things you cannot acquire.
Helps me stay sane and my wallet healthy (for the most part).

For about a year I was completely content acquiring artisans directly through sales only. My collection was rather varied and large. Yes, there were caps I wanted which were long past sales, but I told myself I'd get them later. Later, later.
I tell myself there will always be sales in the future with other attractive designs/colors. I got into artisans in late 2105, which is when the surge really started to hit. Now we have an exorbitant amount to choose from, and I think that's great.

Both very good points.

[nathanrosspowell]

I think it's a fair question, but it's one that grinds my gears. None of my reply is aimed personally at you, mniels  )

The logical conclusion to maximise "opportunities to acquire what you want" is to enter every raffle for the max amount of caps, then flip them for cash, buy more caps, rinse and repeat until you finally have enough buying power to get what you want. Each to their own, but I absolutely hate this method of operating. There are some awful examples of people getting way in over their head with this a screwing a lot of people over and burning their own rep.

I personally don't want to spend time in this hobby playing "stock broker" trying to find the best time to buy and sell. When I look at my caps I see them as hand made sculptures, not a dollar value.

A huge percentage of my collection has come directly from the source and I've enjoyed chatting with a lot of the makers in this community. Why should I sell something for a huge markup (current market value is bigger than retail) profiting from my friends hard work, so I can then hopefully buy another cap for an even bigger markup? How about I keep my caps, get to know some people in the community and then when the time is right make a sweet deal where everyone comes away stoked on their new caps? Why is it bad that my potential trade network is reduced to a small number of like-minded enthusiast?

The only downside to trading caps for caps is the time it takes. Everything else is better IMO. Sadly there's a growing number of people who join the community with the sole goal of maximising their own personal collection as fast as possible. Seems like the "Millennial Entitlement Attitude" really can't handle not being able to get the best caps instantaneously. That leads some to the flipping game, some to the knock off game and almost all of them end up salty as ****.

I'm not trying to convince people to stop selling, I'm just sharing my point of view.

[mniels]

No offence taken.   

I probably should have made the point that I personally don't particularly care about making money off my hobbies. I know that a lot of people do, and hey, that is there prerogative.  Perhaps I should have avoided any variation of the word "acquisition."   My point about selling rather then trading was not to mark up prices (that is a whole other conversation, but the market will bear what the market will bear,) but rather the difficulty of someone coming into a hobby and having difficulty even getting started.  Is there something to be said for having to wait a long time to get what you want, that you appreciate it even more?  Sure.  But then there is the argument that you could have been appreciating it the whole time that you were waiting.  Semantics, really.

Surging popularity definitely leads to this as well.  I have entered in several raffles and not made it into one artisan buy.  Bad luck or bad odds, with either one you get stuck with having to pay aftermarket prices.  It is up to each of us to decide what something is worth to us.  I am not paying $400 for a keycap.  I am sure it is rare and the craftsmanship is exquisite, but I have to put my girls through school (not a millennial, by the way, lol.)

I absolutely appreciate your view on this, part of what makes this or any hobby great are the people we meet along the way.  I am going to KeyCon this year without really knowing anyone, and I am very much looking forward to it for all of the reasons you mentioned.

Thank you for your post.  Discourse is always a good thing, and you helped me look at things a little differently, which is exactly what I wanted.

[nathanrosspowell]

not a millennial, by the way, lol.

I am  )  but, I meant the 'newer crowd' as a whole.

I agree that being stuck with the aftermarket pricing is not fair for a lot of people. The number of collectors has surely grown by record numbers in the last few months.

There is still the option of not buying at high prices though. Personally I've only spent more than retail 3 or 4 times when really specific opportunities arose. I guess I'm lucky to have some spare money, but also very very few caps are worth more than $100 to me 

[swangful]

This is a topic I have a great interest in.

And I agree with a lot of the struggle that you stated about getting your food in the door to be able to even start trading.
I've only been in this for a few months now, but I have already accumulated over 20 artisans (ETF, SUK, Binge, Jellykey, BadNews, Primecaps, KK).

Most of these I won from raffles actually. I do admit, I am a refresh monkey on mechmarket and on the artisan services forum here. And that greatly helps with obtaining caps at reasonable prices and getting my foot in the door for artisan raffles. I've definitely lost my fair share of raffles as well. But once you win one...the ball starts rolling slowly and you can obtain the caps you want. I got really lucky with binge listing his leftovers sale recently and managed to get one cap.

I personally believe we should try our best to support the artists themselves. I am sure they also realize there is a struggle of supply and demand but I believe most of them have day jobs as well and merely do it as a hobby. If we can continue to support the main source, that is what is most important. And if were lucky enough to win a raffle, we should return the favor to someone else who wasn't so lucky without ripping their wallets apart.

Share the love!
Sell at a price to cover fees/shipping + troubles, but not at 200%+

And I understand if you paid X amount you want to break even on that buy. IMO that is fine, you learn from your mistakes and don't purchase caps at insane prices. Just be patient, you will win a raffle eventually!

[Puddsy]

this thread will go well, and have no arguing

i've sold some artisans before, cause people will pay out the ass for them

i traded a clack for my LZCE though, so YMMV

personally i think trading them is a much better way to move them around the community, but when someone PMs you and says they'll give you $150 for your bro, it's hard to say no

[cribbit]

I came across the same issue you're facing, so I went and won 4 snappers, 7 fugus and a few other raffles in the last month so that I have the trading power to pursue other caps. And now I'm falling in love with the ones I won so I'm back at square one.

[icedogg]

Started acquiring artisans in 2014 I want to say. Found myself in the same situation as yourself. Keep in mind, I artisan market at the time was much smaller. Since I didn't have anything to trade, simply entered whatever raffle I could & scooped up items on /r/mm to trade. Flash forward a few years & I'm trying to slim my collection down to just what I want.

My best advice looking back is to simply acquire what YOU want. Don't buy every artisan & join every raffle just to have some "trading ammunition" as they say. Many of the caps (KRAP mainly) I've acquired on /r/mm were initially listed as trade only. However, I always checked in with the user if I had anything to trade they're interested in. Always follow-up if they ever decide to sell them it'll be going to a good home. Since they knew I was a KRAP collector & it'd be going to a good home I think it changed there mind. Be persistent, but be honest with people. Overall I see the benefits/disadvantages of trading/selling.

As others have said, I always prefer to support the artisan maker themselves. Contacted one before to inquire about some questions I had about a trade. Ended up with him offering me a couple caps to pick from that I bought directly. At the end of the day it's a hobby. I've spoken with many friendly people in the community. Hopefully you can acquire a collection soon & your wallet will be hurting like the rest of us Hope my two cents helps.

[digi]

i traded a clack for my LZCE though, so YMMV

personally i think trading them is a much better way to move them around the community, but when someone PMs you and says they'll give you $150 for your bro, it's hard to say no

Ill give you $150 for your LZCE

[-musubi]

Just be patient. Don't go crazy and try to buy up everything in your sight (unless you have unlimited money). To me it's more fun to "earn" your way up through perseverance with entering raffles and trading. Often times you just have to talk to people and find out what they are looking for and connect the dots so that everyone comes out with something they like when it comes to trading.

[Puddsy]

i traded a clack for my LZCE though, so YMMV

personally i think trading them is a much better way to move them around the community, but when someone PMs you and says they'll give you $150 for your bro, it's hard to say no

Ill give you $150 for your LZCE

i traded my blue ice for it so nah

i need to build a new keyboard to put in it, the GH60 i had is kaput

[Joey Quinn]

Just be patient. Don't go crazy and try to buy up everything in your sight (unless you have unlimited money). To me it's more fun to "earn" your way up through perseverance with entering raffles and trading. Often times you just have to talk to people and find out what they are looking for and connect the dots so that everyone comes out with something they like when it comes to trading.

This is the key, if you want to build a large collection or a collection full of rare artisans it'll take time. There are a few keycaps I've been after for 2 years at this point and it'll take even longer before I actually manage to get them.

The spending a lot of money route can work but only to a certain extent, depending on the caps you want some are already in collections with owners that won't sell until the price gets truly ridiculous. My biggest problems with this route are the fact it raises second hand cap prices and the people doing it tend to burn out and just leave the community with a bunch of cool keycaps.

[breusch91]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

[Niomosy]

Trading can work but it's problematic.  As someone that spent a lot of time trading back in the Diablo 2 days, it was interesting to watch as, inevitably, people found items that could be treated as currency just as people eventually created currency to decrease the problems found in a bartering system.

In the end, currency ends up an easier solution that can often help people achieve their goals, such as your A/B/C situation, quickly.

[sth]

there's something to be said for the idea that "money can't buy everything"  and that modern western culture has an ingrained expectation of "i want it, name your price"

 basically "some people" like trading within a small group cause it's a **** you to people with a pile of money and a willingness to separate with large sums of it for cool plastic, regardless of what the that person went through to acquire cool plastic (read: making friends, trading, being a part of a community in more than a "look at my stuff" sort of way)

but it sure can be frustrating when you're just starting out and wanna buy neat stuff.

 

[fatpolomanjr]

Just have patience and accept the things you cannot acquire.

Yeah, like a Hungrkey. 

Getting started with artisans, especially if you are attracted to popular ones, is a huge chicken and egg problem.

[anhthao88]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

[swangful]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I think that's where it does get complicated, it isn't as simple as that. ETF is pumping out fugus nearly every month whereas booper's sales happen less frequently. This is where the concept of supply/demand is creating a grey area of adding "tiers of artisans" in selling/trading. I would love it if it were that simple as what you say makes sense, but because people want X caps over Y caps...it isn't that simple. Some artisans are more desirable to the user base than others. I have a cap I love and I wouldn't trade it even for a booper...does that mean I am being unfair? No...its valuable to me in a non monetary value.

On the other hand you have people collecting caps for trading fodder and I've seen it happen a lot in other trading environments. If someone is trading something more rare and wants 2 less rare things, it makes sense. Just because you and I bought a pokemon card packs for the same price and I got a hologram 1st edition charizard and you got a normal ratata doesn't mean my charizard is the same value.

PS: I'm in no way devaluing any artisan's work. I love all your works. The hard work going into imaging a mold, creating it, thinking up good colorways...it is all really tough and I applaud you.

[cribbit]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I would argue the opposite. Retail price is meaningless since the cap can no longer be acquired at that price. Even in a pure barter market all that matters is the current value of the cap. If he thinks that he can find someone to give him two fugus, then he will ask for two fugus. That's just how trading works.

Put it to the extreme - should a cap won from a giveaway only be sellable for that free price?

[anhthao88]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I think that's where it does get complicated, it isn't as simple as that. ETF is pumping out fugus nearly every month whereas booper's sales happen less frequently. This is where the concept of supply/demand is creating a grey area of adding "tiers of artisans" in selling/trading. I would love it if it were that simple as what you say makes sense, but because people want X caps over Y caps...it isn't that simple. Some artisans are more desirable to the user base than others. I have a cap I love and I wouldn't trade it even for a booper...does that mean I am being unfair? No...its valuable to me in a non monetary value.

On the other hand you have people collecting caps for trading fodder and I've seen it happen a lot in other trading environments. If someone is trading something more rare and wants 2 less rare things, it makes sense. Just because you and I bought a pokemon card packs for the same price and I got a hologram 1st edition charizard and you got a normal ratata doesn't mean my charizard is the same value.

PS: I'm in no way devaluing any artisan's work. I love all your works. The hard work going into imaging a mold, creating it, thinking up good colorways...it is all really tough and I applaud you.

I get that people have different ideas about how much their stuff worth. It is especially true in aftermarket trade of arts just like artisan keycaps.

However, I think my example is an isolated case. In that case, I want to own that Bruce and have disposable fugus; the other guy wants fugu and have a disposable Bruce. My main argument is that at the end of the day, we get the cap we want and dispose of the thing we want less; so why does people are so obssessed over the ****ing aftermarket value and try to influence trade with that overinflated value?

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

[swangful]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I think that's where it does get complicated, it isn't as simple as that. ETF is pumping out fugus nearly every month whereas booper's sales happen less frequently. This is where the concept of supply/demand is creating a grey area of adding "tiers of artisans" in selling/trading. I would love it if it were that simple as what you say makes sense, but because people want X caps over Y caps...it isn't that simple. Some artisans are more desirable to the user base than others. I have a cap I love and I wouldn't trade it even for a booper...does that mean I am being unfair? No...its valuable to me in a non monetary value.

On the other hand you have people collecting caps for trading fodder and I've seen it happen a lot in other trading environments. If someone is trading something more rare and wants 2 less rare things, it makes sense. Just because you and I bought a pokemon card packs for the same price and I got a hologram 1st edition charizard and you got a normal ratata doesn't mean my charizard is the same value.

PS: I'm in no way devaluing any artisan's work. I love all your works. The hard work going into imaging a mold, creating it, thinking up good colorways...it is all really tough and I applaud you.

I get that people have different ideas about how much their stuff worth. It is especially true in aftermarket trade of arts just like artisan keycaps.

However, I think my example is an isolated case. In that case, I want to own that Bruce and have disposable fugus; the other guy wants fugu and have a disposable Bruce. My main argument is that at the end of the day, we get the cap we want and dispose of the thing we want less; so why does people are so obssessed over the ****ing aftermarket value and try to influence trade with that overinflated value?

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

Yeah
Sadly this is what were dealing with atm, but atleast were discussing it here. The community won't be perfect and as it grows, it will become less and less hobby like and more business like. Good news is we have a large chunk of the community who wants to keep this going as long as possible hence discussions like these are possible. Otherwise we would just see some supply and demand bull**** where some guy is demanding $250 for an otterphile won in a giveaway lol *looking at you r/mm*

[anhthao88]

I would argue the opposite. Retail price is meaningless since the cap can no longer be acquired at that price. Even in a pure barter market all that matters is the current value of the cap. If he thinks that he can find someone to give him two fugus, then he will ask for two fugus. That's just how trading works.

Put it to the extreme - should a cap won from a giveaway only be sellable for that free price?

I do understand how supply/demand and aftermarket trading work. But because everybody is doing that does not make it right. It is the obsession of over-inflated value in the aftermarket that grinds my gear, not the people. The guy has every right to demand two fugus from me, but at least give me a reasonable explanation instead of some bull**** about aftermarket price.

[anhthao88]

Yeah
Sadly this is what were dealing with atm, but atleast were discussing it here. The community won't be perfect and as it grows, it will become less and less hobby like and more business like. Good news is we have a large chunk of the community who wants to keep this going as long as possible hence discussions like these are possible. Otherwise we would just see some supply and demand bull**** where some guy is demanding $250 for an otterphile won in a giveaway lol *looking at you r/mm*

Lol true that. There are crazy people everywhere, but I have seen way more nice and fantastic people here and r/mechkey.

[swangful]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I would argue the opposite. Retail price is meaningless since the cap can no longer be acquired at that price. Even in a pure barter market all that matters is the current value of the cap. If he thinks that he can find someone to give him two fugus, then he will ask for two fugus. That's just how trading works.

Put it to the extreme - should a cap won from a giveaway only be sellable for that free price?

To answer the extreme, no it shouldn't be sold at a free price. Return the favor and give it away to the next lucky person. If you are in dire need of cash (which I doubt anyone in this hobby is) then sell it for retail. You still make 40-70 depending on what it was sold for at retail. But price gouging a FREE cap you won in a giveaway....is just in bad taste and poor character.

[cribbit]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I would argue the opposite. Retail price is meaningless since the cap can no longer be acquired at that price. Even in a pure barter market all that matters is the current value of the cap. If he thinks that he can find someone to give him two fugus, then he will ask for two fugus. That's just how trading works.

Put it to the extreme - should a cap won from a giveaway only be sellable for that free price?

To answer the extreme, no it shouldn't be sold at a free price. Return the favor and give it away to the next lucky person. If you are in dire need of cash (which I doubt anyone in this hobby is) then sell it for retail. You still make 40-70 depending on what it was sold for at retail. But price gauging a FREE cap you won in a giveaway....is just in bad taste and poor character.

Don't twist what I'm saying. I'm not saying price gouge. I'm saying "not free". I make no statements about what price is or is not "kosher", only drawing the comparison that you cannot expect to limit people purely over your own sense of morality.

You can judge someone for selling something all you want but at the end of the day it's a free market.

[swangful]

you're going to get a lot of advice from this thread. In the end take it all in, then do one thing. Don't be a complete **** to other people when you're trading/selling or it will bite you in the ass. If you're going to sell at huge markups above the going rate people are going to hate you, if you're going to trash talk people all the time theyre going to hate you, if you're running around offering people tons of money trying to secretly outbid other people , then people are going to hate you.

I been trading/selling a lot in the past few months and i've been lucky enough to win a couple raffles which made that easier for me. Some people will frown upon selling artisans for a mark up, and i'll give you this advice on that matter. If you win a raffle don't immediately flip your caps, try trading first for caps you like/want. The three big raffles I've won have been blind bags and thats been awesome because it really encourages trading and I've made a lot of good trade partners/friends that I can trust in the future to trade with and we help each other out when we know one of us is looking for a particular cap. If after awhile you can't find that trade then I believe it's okay to sell.  I've sold some caps at below market value, but for the most part i sell them at market value. Some people won't like that, but the way I see it is this if I won a fugu and paid $50 and I can't seem to find anyone willing to trade me for it, but then I see the one I wanted for sale at the going market value of $100, I'm going to purchase the one I wanted, then sell mine at the going market value that I just purchased the other fugu at. Then I will have made $0 off the cap (still be down the $-50 of the original purchase), and got the cap I was looking for, while also giving someone else the cap they were looking for. It's almost like I traded the cap for the one I wanted but theres an extra step in the middle. There will probably be people that don't like it done this way but I think its the faster way, that leads to the same goal, and allows more artisans to exchange hands.

Take for example the person that never wants to sell, and only wants to trade. Say you win a nice Booper cap, but you really want a different one and will only trade your boop (b1) for the other color boop (b2). Except the person that has b2 does not like b1 and doesn't want to trade for it, but will instead trade/sell it to someone else. Well now you're stuck holding b1 hoping the next person that gets b2 wants to trade you, and if not then the cycle repeats and could possibly never end. UNTIL out of nowhere b2 is for sale for real money at the going market value of $300?!! but you see this and say I don't want to buy a cap for that price when I paid $50 for mine, I only want to trade. And now you're still stuck with b1 even though you want b2.  Meanwhile someone who is in love with b1 is sitting there with almost no hope because the only way you will get rid of b1 is for b2 and if you wouldve just bought b2 and then sold your b1 to fund it than he actually wouldve had a shot at getting the key he wanted too!   

I know a little confusing but I hope I got my point across. There are many differents routes and paths to take when trading/selling.  Everyone will have some sort of argument about something. Just be pleasant and support the community. Don't be a huge **** and enter artisan raffles just to flip keys and make a quick buck and leave, and you should be fine.

I get what you're saying but that's not always the case with aftermarket places like reddit or classified here. One thing that borders me the most when trade is that people mostly look at the value of caps and make their offer based on that. I get that if you are selling caps, but if you are trading, IMO it's irrelevant.

For example, I made an offer to a guy to trade a Prismatic Fugu for a Booper Bruce because I saw that he is looking for Prismatic Fugu. Retail-wise, the two caps are in the same price range, and I know for a fact that both he and I got our caps from raffle. The guy responded to me and said that he wanted 2 of my fugus because his cap worth twice my cap in the aftermarket. Why does the aftermarket value is relevant on a 1:1 trade? Unless the guy is looking for Prismatic Fugu to flip it, I don't see the connection between that trade and the cap aftermarket value. I want his cap and he want mine. It's simple as that.

I would argue the opposite. Retail price is meaningless since the cap can no longer be acquired at that price. Even in a pure barter market all that matters is the current value of the cap. If he thinks that he can find someone to give him two fugus, then he will ask for two fugus. That's just how trading works.

Put it to the extreme - should a cap won from a giveaway only be sellable for that free price?

To answer the extreme, no it shouldn't be sold at a free price. Return the favor and give it away to the next lucky person. If you are in dire need of cash (which I doubt anyone in this hobby is) then sell it for retail. You still make 40-70 depending on what it was sold for at retail. But price gauging a FREE cap you won in a giveaway....is just in bad taste and poor character.

Don't twist what I'm saying. I'm not saying price gouge. I'm saying "not free". I make no statements about what price is or is not "kosher", only drawing the comparison that you cannot expect to limit people purely over your own sense of morality.

You can judge someone for selling something all you want but at the end of the day it's a free market.

Yeah it is a free market and if we think this way, that is what leads to people justifying listing high prices for caps retailing for much less. I don't want to press my morals on anyone if it feels that way, but I don't want some new user to come in thinking they can just start flipping caps either. The only sure thing is that it is complicated lol.

If we all start this "free market" mentality, it becomes dog eat dog real fast. What if artisan makers starting asking for these aftermarket prices? They're selling caps at 40, see their caps going for 80...it just makes good business sense to sell at 80 if the demand is there right? Yet they still choose to stay at 40, we can atleast respect their love for the hobby > profits.

[anhthao88]

Don't twist what I'm saying. I'm not saying price gouge. I'm saying "not free". I make no statements about what price is or is not "kosher", only drawing the comparison that you cannot expect to limit people purely over your own sense of morality.

You can judge someone for selling something all you want but at the end of the day it's a free market.

You are right about people can do whatever they want with the cap. And you are true too that we could not force our moral principles on people.

But I can voice my opinions about what's right or wrong, what's poor character, and what's asshat. Other member could too if they take the same stand. And then let the community make the decision or jugdment about that.

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

[romevi]

[anhthao88]

Yet they still choose to stay at 40, we can atleast respect their love for the hobby > profits.

This is what I love most about this community. The artisans have the means to influence the market, and they chose to make this a hobby, not a cash cow.



Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

[JaccoW]

Never ended up trading any of my caps because it was usually for something that I wasn't that interested in or with someone who was wary of shipping things outside of the US.

As for selling, you can check my FS/WTB thread and see at what prices I sold various items.
I sold a Clack at market value once but ever since that I sold everything either with a slight markup to cover my original shipping or import costs or at retail.

I am aware that I probably have close to $1000 sitting on my keypad if I were to flip it. But at the same time the thing I enjoy most about the hobby is photographing these artisans.
It would feel disrespectful to overcharge for some of these keycaps, especially if I got them in a giveaway or as surprise extras.

The ones I enjoy most are also from capmakers that will (probably) blacklist you if you flip their caps.
No need to anger the Rafflegods.

[1swt2gs]

i came for flame, why is there no flame.

srsly though, all answers here are honest and so kind. i have never seen such nice answers in regards to this controversial topic

[cribbit]

i came for flame, why is there no flame.

srsly though, all answers here are honest and so kind. i have never seen such nice answers in regards to this controversial topic

REEEEEEE GIBE CHEEEEP ARTEEEEESANS

[hayt]

but... what about capitalism? and stuff

[Puddsy]

i came for flame, why is there no flame.

srsly though, all answers here are honest and so kind. i have never seen such nice answers in regards to this controversial topic

it's because we're not the **** keyboard forum