Author Topic: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter  (Read 3562 times)

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Offline dantan

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 02:23:13 »

Honestly, cutting those left-side keys out would turn the board into more a half measure than anything.  Those are specifically desired.  Look at the interest in the VE.A.  If those get trimmed, the board loses appeal.  Added tenting angles?  Might appear to a very few but nothing beyond that.

The board is already 100%.


Which is why i never said to cut them out.. Put them somewhere else..

Left side keys are really useful to many keyboards. Maybe put them flush with other keys to reduce the distant the center keys are from the table?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 12:12:05 »

Honestly, cutting those left-side keys out would turn the board into more a half measure than anything.  Those are specifically desired.  Look at the interest in the VE.A.  If those get trimmed, the board loses appeal.  Added tenting angles?  Might appear to a very few but nothing beyond that.

The board is already 100%.


Which is why i never said to cut them out.. Put them somewhere else..

Left side keys are really useful to many keyboards. Maybe put them flush with other keys to reduce the distant the center keys are from the table?

top, inner edge, or bottom ,  all fine..

Just not the outside edge.

Offline possumgumbo

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 16:21:26 »

[/quote]

top, inner edge, or bottom ,  all fine..

Just not the outside edge.
[/quote]

I actually really like them where they are. I have the bluetooth version of this board in rubberdome, and they are actually a great location for programmable keys.



Offline Niomosy

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 23:59:16 »

Honestly, cutting those left-side keys out would turn the board into more a half measure than anything.  Those are specifically desired.  Look at the interest in the VE.A.  If those get trimmed, the board loses appeal.  Added tenting angles?  Might appear to a very few but nothing beyond that.

The board is already 100%.


Which is why i never said to cut them out.. Put them somewhere else..

The left side is perfect for them.  When gaming, I'd only have my left hand on the keyboard anyway.  In such a case, I'd want those extra keys specifically left-hand accessible and easily so.  Above the F-row puts them out of quick gaming reach.  The left side is the most realistic spot for them unless you're going to disconnect them and put them off as a separate macro pad - which isn't necessarily a bad idea either but not something done here. 

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 03 April 2017, 07:18:49 »
So I've used a Freestyle2 as a test measure for this, and I own a Kinesis Essential and an Ergodox and have tried to use both of them for gaming as well.

Honestly? I hate thumb clusters for gaming. They are ass. Does it come up all the time that you'd need to hit ctrl, shift, and space at the same time? No, but it can(Especially if ctrl is your TS/Discord/Vent PTT key like a lot of people I know). I also hate the Ergodox's column stagger(In general, actually, but in particular for gaming). The Essential/Advantage layout with the curved handwell is better for the majority of hand positioning but still has thumb cluster irritation.

Honestly I just tilt my normal keyboard when I'm gaming and that works better than anything else for me except maybe switching to a Razer Orbweaver, but I don't have room on my desk for that and a keyboard and a mouse. But hey there's an issue with tilting a normal keyboard which is that y'know the right half gets hard to type on when you need it. Sure be nice if you could split the thing in half. Wait you can. :D

Seriously just being able to move the right half of the keyboard and tent the board a bit is a huge improvement that doesn't take a ton of relearning or irritation. The flexibilty is great without having to deal with stupid thumbclusters. Don't need this right now, want more room for my mouse, go away right half. Need both because I have to type, they're both there and tilted in different directions hey isn't this nice. Like, it just works without an adjustment period. (As someone with broad shoulders it's also a fix in and of itself, if I let my hands rest at a comfortable width on a fullsize my right hand is on the numberpad. Hell I can move it far enough right to slap my mouse in between and still be comfortable since most of what I play doesn't actually need a ton of mouse movement anyway.)

As to the left bank of keys, this is a common, extremely useful, and looked for feature for gaming(And life in general honestly if you have a board with them). Move that right half of the board key to where it's comfortable to reach. Assign that macro. Set it up to make targeting your team easier. Put that photoshop shortcut that you use all the time but it's four freaking awkward keys long on its own button and never worry about it again I'm looking at you save for web you know what you did bad shortcut no biscuit.

One also needs to keep in mind the demographic this is aimed at. No, it's not aggressively ergonomic like the Advantage. No, it's not as shiny and pretty as the VE.A kit. It's aimed at people who are looking for something more convenient and comfortable without straying too far from the known. Sure, it only takes a couple weeks max to get more or less up to speed with a new keyboard layout, but most gamers aren't going to accept that time period of being slowed down or are going to jump directly to a dedicated gaming pad. They're also generally not going to be willing to source and solder up a kit. The crossover between gamers and hardcore keyboard enthusiasts is not complete, as much as we'd all like it to be.

Same thing goes for the non-standard keys and unreplacable spacebars. I actually did advocate for going closer to standard, but again, your average user isn't going to be replacing their keys anyway and probably doesn't know they can. That's the one thing I'm sad about. :P

I dunno, like, I get why people are objecting in this thread to certain parts of it, but I like this thing and I'm excited about it. Besides, it could be a gateway drug for people to using more ergonomic things and even small improvements can have a big impact. What people won't use won't help them.

Also, reminder that you've only got four more days to back this. Do it for your collection if nothing else. ;)

Now someone figure out an ergonomic MMO mouse. The 3x4 grid on the side of my Naga isn't always comfortable for reaching all the buttons with my thumb...
- IBM 4704 Model F 107-key "Bertha"
Other boards: Kinesis Essential, Infinity(G.Clears), Ergodox(MX Blues), Monoprice 9433

Eternally searching for Celestial Blue BS V2 and blue/purple Bros.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 03 April 2017, 07:32:19 »
I use the last 1x key on the bottom right on the Main-cluster for my spacebar when gaming.. 

You're doing it wrong.. hahahahaha



Tenting is still what matters most..    If you wasd alot,  the wrist gets serious damage from turning so deeply to meet a flat keyboard..   I see EVERY gamer rolling their keyboard wrist after long sessions..

Ever since I got the ergodox,   My wrist has absolutely no stress.



High tenting requires a low outer edge, as low as possible.  SO much so that it makes any outside edge keys beyond 1x space from main cluster quite useless..




Offline Niomosy

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 00:02:31 »
Ergodox for gaming, for me, wouldn't work.  F-keys or GTFO.  Bring out an Ergodox with a fixed thumb cluster and an F-row above the num-row and we can talk, though even then it's a sacrifice on the right-hand key locations, often throwing several of them into **** locations on the modifiers row along with the shift/ctrl/alt keys.  That's a pile of meh for a guy that uses those brackets and such on a regular basis.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 15:52:45 »
Ergodox for gaming, for me, wouldn't work.  F-keys or GTFO.  Bring out an Ergodox with a fixed thumb cluster and an F-row above the num-row and we can talk, though even then it's a sacrifice on the right-hand key locations, often throwing several of them into **** locations on the modifiers row along with the shift/ctrl/alt keys.  That's a pile of meh for a guy that uses those brackets and such on a regular basis.

hahaha..

so-newb..

I think f-keys would help rts , but who plays rts these days..

Lacking f-keys is the only drawback, but relative to demographic, it's not such a deficit..   but ur right, i think f keys would be more useful than not.


the thumb button is a non-issue, because the last 1x key on the main cluster can be used for jump.  it fits perfectly when you're on the wasd cluster.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 22:40:09 »
Ergodox for gaming, for me, wouldn't work.  F-keys or GTFO.  Bring out an Ergodox with a fixed thumb cluster and an F-row above the num-row and we can talk, though even then it's a sacrifice on the right-hand key locations, often throwing several of them into **** locations on the modifiers row along with the shift/ctrl/alt keys.  That's a pile of meh for a guy that uses those brackets and such on a regular basis.

hahaha..

so-newb..

I think f-keys would help rts , but who plays rts these days..

Lacking f-keys is the only drawback, but relative to demographic, it's not such a deficit..   but ur right, i think f keys would be more useful than not.


the thumb button is a non-issue, because the last 1x key on the main cluster can be used for jump.  it fits perfectly when you're on the wasd cluster.

In terms of gaming, I more make use of the F keys for things like FPS that use them or something like WoW for a handful of things I simply don't want to put on Alt-<Letter> combos.  Outside of gaming, it's also an annoyance.  Personally, I wish one of the Axios revisions with the F-row above the num-row would have happened.  I'd have picked one up to at least try out.

The thumb cluster might work but I honestly don't know how much I want to deal with it.  I've never tremendously enjoyed thumb clusters much when I've used them.  That combined with having to remap the bracket keys to the inner vertical keys along with the lack of F-row results in a keyboard I don't see worth the investment.  Throw in the F-row like the Axios had for a bit and I'd consider it. 

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 01:10:57 »

In terms of gaming, I more make use of the F keys for things like FPS that use them or something like WoW for a handful of things I simply don't want to put on Alt-<Letter> combos.  Outside of gaming, it's also an annoyance.  Personally, I wish one of the Axios revisions with the F-row above the num-row would have happened.  I'd have picked one up to at least try out.

The thumb cluster might work but I honestly don't know how much I want to deal with it.  I've never tremendously enjoyed thumb clusters much when I've used them.  That combined with having to remap the bracket keys to the inner vertical keys along with the lack of F-row results in a keyboard I don't see worth the investment.  Throw in the F-row like the Axios had for a bit and I'd consider it. 

Hahahaha..

Think about it this way..

CAN the ergodox get the job done.. with enough left hand keys..  Yes, it has enough keys for your left hand.


Can YOU adapt..  yes, with a good couple of games, you'd adapt to the new setup..



Does the Ergodox fix the MOST IMPORTANT keyboard problem related to gaming,  (Tenting).. Again YES..



There is absolutely NOTHING you couldn't work with using the ergodox, and it is superior in all the ways that matter, be it ergonomics or programmability.



The ergodox is a complete solution..


By remaining rigid with what YOU consider the norm is the same as being those kids who wouldn't try ice cream.

Online cribbit

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 12:35:46 »
Ergodoxen or a close variant are impossible to beat once you're used to typing on it (and they're pretty fast to learn). The only thing that standard QWERTY has going for it is that we're trained on it already. Otherwise it's terrible and illogical.
I typed this post on my Slanck. I also developed a stronger, cleaner, easier handwiring method.


Offline Niomosy

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 16:42:59 »

In terms of gaming, I more make use of the F keys for things like FPS that use them or something like WoW for a handful of things I simply don't want to put on Alt-<Letter> combos.  Outside of gaming, it's also an annoyance.  Personally, I wish one of the Axios revisions with the F-row above the num-row would have happened.  I'd have picked one up to at least try out.

The thumb cluster might work but I honestly don't know how much I want to deal with it.  I've never tremendously enjoyed thumb clusters much when I've used them.  That combined with having to remap the bracket keys to the inner vertical keys along with the lack of F-row results in a keyboard I don't see worth the investment.  Throw in the F-row like the Axios had for a bit and I'd consider it. 

Hahahaha..

Think about it this way..

CAN the ergodox get the job done.. with enough left hand keys..  Yes, it has enough keys for your left hand.


Can YOU adapt..  yes, with a good couple of games, you'd adapt to the new setup..



Does the Ergodox fix the MOST IMPORTANT keyboard problem related to gaming,  (Tenting).. Again YES..



There is absolutely NOTHING you couldn't work with using the ergodox, and it is superior in all the ways that matter, be it ergonomics or programmability.



The ergodox is a complete solution..


By remaining rigid with what YOU consider the norm is the same as being those kids who wouldn't try ice cream.

It is a good solution that does a lot of things well but nothing great.

I'm glad you like it.  In its current form, it's not a keyboard I would likely buy. 

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 19:25:13 »
Ergodoxen or a close variant are impossible to beat once you're used to typing on it (and they're pretty fast to learn). The only thing that standard QWERTY has going for it is that we're trained on it already. Otherwise it's terrible and illogical.

it absolutely makes no sense to continue ansi flat...

But it's going to be the defacto for at least another 50 years.


As for qwerty,   that's going to stick for 100 years... there's absolutely no way to unseat qwerty before we achieve world peace first,   and everyone agree to start teaching kids something else on the getgo.

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 07 April 2017, 20:47:40 »
Congrats to Kinesis on the successful funding of the Freestyle Edge!

I hope everyone who backed it enjoys theirs. I hope the people who derailed this thread into flailing about the Ergodox have fun with their Ergodoxen.
- IBM 4704 Model F 107-key "Bertha"
Other boards: Kinesis Essential, Infinity(G.Clears), Ergodox(MX Blues), Monoprice 9433

Eternally searching for Celestial Blue BS V2 and blue/purple Bros.

Offline natas206

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Re: Kinesis Freestyle Edge - mechanical Freestyle on kickstarter
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 19 May 2017, 12:03:28 »
If anyone wants to play around with the programming app, it's on our website for download here:
SmartSet App: https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/smartset-app-beta-download/

Feedback is welcome.

As some of you already know, the programming app is completely optional since the Freestyle Edge does have on-board programming features as well, very similar to the Advantage2 keyboard, and also the ability to view/edit layout files stored on the keyboard. So that makes three different ways to program the keyboard. The app is intended to make this process a little easier for some users. 

Note for current/future Advantage2 users: once we are finished up with the Freestyle Edge shortly, we will then finalize and release an app for the Adv2, which will be available for download on the Advantage2 Resource page. The app will look very similar to the Freestyle Edge app. Once it's available, you can download the app directly to the v-drive on the Adv2 keyboard and it can live there, meaning you can run it directly from the keyboard without needing to install it on your computer.

« Last Edit: Fri, 19 May 2017, 12:05:04 by natas206 »