Author Topic: Returning my Leopold :/  (Read 5314 times)

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Offline Entropia

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Returning my Leopold :/
« on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 17:21:09 »
Last weekend I received my Leopold FC980M with reds. I've been testing it this weeked and I've decided to return it. The main problems are:

The red switches are very scratchy. Honestly, for an expensive keyboard like this, I expected them to be smooth. The blacks I have in my cheap Tesoro feel better.
Typing with the front printed legends at night is like typing with blanks. I'm not that good typist to type all the time without taking a quick look every now and then. The result is lots of typos and a very unconfident feeling and performance.
I really expected better keycaps. They are 1,5 mm PBT, but they feel light. They lack texture and feel simply like a mat surface.
There's a ping coming from most of the keys. It's very very noticiable on the spacebar.

For the rest, it's a very good keyboard, with a spectacular build quaility and finish. The layout is also magnific.

So, my decision now is to go back to my buckling spring roots: a Unicomp Ultra Classic. I don't adore how buckling springs feel or sound, although I must say the IBM Model M from 90s that I used for some years was not in the best condition ever seen. So, maybe a brand new keyboard may feel better. I know Unicomp's build quality and finish is bull****, but now I've decided to prioritize typing performance. In this sense, I know for sure that I have never been able to type faster and with les typos than in my Model M. I'm not sure it's the switches. I think it's because of the key spacing, angle or some other design reason that make that keyboard suit the way I type. Unlike with other modern keyboards I've tried, with the IBM I don't usually need too much precision to hit the right keys. Maybe it's made for big hands like mine.

Offline Tactile

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 17:34:04 »
I bought an Ultra Classic about 6 months ago and was delighted with it. I gave it away a couple of weeks ago to a friend as his first mechanical keyboard. I admit that I'm not as OCD as some folks around here but I was very impressed with the Ultra Classic I bought.
REΛLFORCE

Offline Entropia

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 17:39:00 »
The problem I have with purchasing a Unicomp keyboard from Europe is that the shipping cost + custom taxes from pckeyboard.com are epic. The alternative is in UK: keyboardco.com. The problem with them is that most of the keyboards they have are UK ISO. I want it in either US ANSI or Spanish ISO. I've emailed them to check for avaibility. Fingers crossed.

Offline 1391406

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 18:23:30 »
What about buying from eBay?
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline taylorswiftttttt

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 18:25:53 »
removed
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 November 2022, 19:45:19 by taylorswiftttttt »

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 18:42:04 »
Amazon UK is another option for Unicomp. They're peddling wares in several places it seems

Offline dantan

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 22:46:22 »
pity that Unicomp boards are so bad. If they invested in improving their wares they would probably make many more sales.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 22:47:15 »
pity that Unicomp boards are so bad. If they invested in improving their wares they would probably make many more sales.

they're not appallingly bad

OG ms are better tho
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Offline 1391406

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 23:05:39 »
The issues Unicomp could improve on have practically nothing to do with typing feel.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 23:09:31 »
there's a huge set of keyboards lately that comes out of the box a little scratchy..

It willlll smooth out, since it's just plastic..


But this whole (temporary) UN-SMOOTHNESS thing, it's not a function and doesn't affect usage..

You shouldn't be weighing it so heavily against the other attributes..




It's like when you bought your first pieces of audio equipment,  and you wanted 192khz..

But once you go through a few purchases,  you realize.. it's all the god damn same.. and 192khz means absolutely nothing.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 23:49:36 »
Last weekend I received my Leopold FC980M with reds. I've been testing it this weeked and I've decided to return it. The main problems are:

The red switches are very scratchy. Honestly, for an expensive keyboard like this, I expected them to be smooth. The blacks I have in my cheap Tesoro feel better.
Typing with the front printed legends at night is like typing with blanks. I'm not that good typist to type all the time without taking a quick look every now and then. The result is lots of typos and a very unconfident feeling and performance.
I really expected better keycaps. They are 1,5 mm PBT, but they feel light. They lack texture and feel simply like a mat surface.
There's a ping coming from most of the keys. It's very very noticiable on the spacebar.

For the rest, it's a very good keyboard, with a spectacular build quaility and finish. The layout is also magnific.

So, my decision now is to go back to my buckling spring roots: a Unicomp Ultra Classic. I don't adore how buckling springs feel or sound, although I must say the IBM Model M from 90s that I used for some years was not in the best condition ever seen. So, maybe a brand new keyboard may feel better. I know Unicomp's build quality and finish is bull****, but now I've decided to prioritize typing performance. In this sense, I know for sure that I have never been able to type faster and with les typos than in my Model M. I'm not sure it's the switches. I think it's because of the key spacing, angle or some other design reason that make that keyboard suit the way I type. Unlike with other modern keyboards I've tried, with the IBM I don't usually need too much precision to hit the right keys. Maybe it's made for big hands like mine.

I find this to be kinda strange considering Cherry has introduced revised stems & Leopold definitely has them. I just got a FC660M with Cherry blacks a little over a month ago from MK.com & it is super smooth. I mean like no joke surprised the hell out of me smooth since I was expecting a little scratchiness. The only thing I can think is that my 660M got switches with the revised stem & your 980M got switches from before the revision? Although for the most part my experience with Cherry switches have shown me that they do tend to be a bit scratchy when brand new, but they will break in & lose most of the scratchiness after some usage.

It's up to you if you want to return it or not but I believe if you stick with it & use it as a daily driver for a couple weeks the feel should smooth out. Good luck with whatever course of action you take with it!

Offline Entropia

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 07:05:38 »
I have discarded a Model M because:

I don't like the old-style beige color
I find it useful to have extra keys such as Windows key or the menu key (I assign other fuctions to them)
I don't want to take risks with used hardware
I want USB

Ebay was considered, but the sellers are the same I mentioned, so there's no difference from buying directly from them.

I have finally returned the Leopold. The feeling of the keyboard simply wasn't right. I suppose the switches are to blame, not the keyboard itself. Maybe with blacks it would be a different story but, honestly, I don't want to keep on trying and wasting time. Also, the front printed legends are not for me, defintelly. There's a white FC980 with Topres and top legends, but I'm not expending that much money in a rubber dome (I don't find it's so special and I want durable hardware that doesn't change much over time). As I said, I'll stick with what I'm sure it will work for me. I'm tired of typos and problems of precission. I need a keyboard that I don't have to worry about, but without the terrible feel of a membrane Logitech. To hell with aesthectics, finish and build quality.

Offline dantan

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 07:27:22 »
 If you don't want buckling springs, and you don't want Topres, and you don't want Cherry MX, does that makes you an Alps person?

Seems as though Alps has less issues with scratchiness.

I have discarded a Model M because:

I don't like the old-style beige color
I find it useful to have extra keys such as Windows key or the menu key (I assign other fuctions to them)
I don't want to take risks with used hardware
I want USB

Ebay was considered, but the sellers are the same I mentioned, so there's no difference from buying directly from them.

I have finally returned the Leopold. The feeling of the keyboard simply wasn't right. I suppose the switches are to blame, not the keyboard itself. Maybe with blacks it would be a different story but, honestly, I don't want to keep on trying and wasting time. Also, the front printed legends are not for me, defintelly. There's a white FC980 with Topres and top legends, but I'm not expending that much money in a rubber dome (I don't find it's so special and I want durable hardware that doesn't change much over time). As I said, I'll stick with what I'm sure it will work for me. I'm tired of typos and problems of precission. I need a keyboard that I don't have to worry about, but without the terrible feel of a membrane Logitech. To hell with aesthectics, finish and build quality.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 08:37:27 »
I can understand your frustration Entropia, it is always a kick in the nuts when you spend that much for a product you are not happy with. Maybe a board with Gateron switches would be something to look into, the 2 boards I have with Gats were both very smooth out of the box. A board with Alps like dantan suggest may be something to look into also, although I have no recent personal experience with any Alps or Alps clones so I couldn't give you a comparison with them. Hope you find something that suits your need soon.

The only other option I could think of is to build your own board which will allow you a lot more freedom as to what switches it has & how they feel. Also you could go the extra mile with lubing the stems & sliders of the switches for extra insurance that they will be smooth. It's a ton of work but should get you a very smooth board.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 March 2017, 08:39:10 by Rob27shred »

Offline Entropia

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 08:44:01 »
Alps are only available in vintage keyboards, as far as I know. The Matias clones may be interesting. However, I've read they wooble too much and that the click varies depending on the part of the keycap you press. That's not very appealing. Gaterons? I'm not sure. I've heard they are not very reliable.

Offline davkol

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 08:53:29 »
I'm tired of typos and problems of precission.
So, why don't you focus on that, instead of trying to find a keyboard, that won't fix your problems (that are in your head/hands) anyway.

Offline Entropia

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 15:51:14 »
I never learnt to type correctly, I mean with all fingers and placing my hands correctly on the keyboard. I use both hands but honestly I have never counted how many or which fingers I use for typing. I don't normally need to look at my keyboard to type. Most of my typos are due to imprecissions when hitting the wrong key, especially with my right hand. I've found out that this happens more with some keyboards than with others. Everybody says that all distances between keys and the positions and the keycap sizes are all the same in all boards, so I don't know why some keyboards are easier for me than others. For instance, I had a Corsair K70 for some days and it was very frustrating. However, with a Cherry G80, as soon as I started typing I noticed an absolute precision. Same with the IBM Model M.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 16:02:15 »
I never learnt to type correctly, I mean with all fingers and placing my hands correctly on the keyboard. I use both hands but honestly I have never counted how many or which fingers I use for typing. I don't normally need to look at my keyboard to type. Most of my typos are due to imprecissions when hitting the wrong key, especially with my right hand. I've found out that this happens more with some keyboards than with others. Everybody says that all distances between keys and the positions and the keycap sizes are all the same in all boards, so I don't know why some keyboards are easier for me than others. For instance, I had a Corsair K70 for some days and it was very frustrating. However, with a Cherry G80, as soon as I started typing I noticed an absolute precision. Same with the IBM Model M.



As you increase your skill level, the difference in keyboards will make less and less impact on your speed.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 19:11:31 »
Alps are only available in vintage keyboards, as far as I know. The Matias clones may be interesting. However, I've read they wooble too much and that the click varies depending on the part of the keycap you press. That's not very appealing. Gaterons? I'm not sure. I've heard they are not very reliable.

TBH I doubt you'd have any reliability problems with Gaterons if you got a board with them made recently. I've only been in the mech KB game for a little under 2 yrs., so it is possible that their earliest production runs may have had issues. But nowadays I know a lot of people who prefer Gats to Cherrys & swear they are better despite being a clone of Cherry switches. Zealios are actually made mostly with Gateron parts & manufactured by Gateron for ZealPC to give you an ideal of stock Gateron quality. Now obviously there is some deviations from their stock design for Zealios which is reflected in the pricing. But IME stock Gateron switches do tend to be smoother than their Cherry counterparts & are just as durable.

Although ultimately the best advice I can give you in this situation is that if you've found Model M & Cherry G80 boards suited your needs well in the past, going back to one of the two may be your best bet. That way you know what you're getting for the most part & know you you will most likely be happy with the typing experience they provide.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 March 2017, 19:13:26 by Rob27shred »

Offline falkentyne

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 20:44:53 »
Last weekend I received my Leopold FC980M with reds. I've been testing it this weeked and I've decided to return it. The main problems are:

The red switches are very scratchy. Honestly, for an expensive keyboard like this, I expected them to be smooth. The blacks I have in my cheap Tesoro feel better.
Typing with the front printed legends at night is like typing with blanks. I'm not that good typist to type all the time without taking a quick look every now and then. The result is lots of typos and a very unconfident feeling and performance.
I really expected better keycaps. They are 1,5 mm PBT, but they feel light. They lack texture and feel simply like a mat surface.
There's a ping coming from most of the keys. It's very very noticiable on the spacebar.

For the rest, it's a very good keyboard, with a spectacular build quaility and finish. The layout is also magnific.

So, my decision now is to go back to my buckling spring roots: a Unicomp Ultra Classic. I don't adore how buckling springs feel or sound, although I must say the IBM Model M from 90s that I used for some years was not in the best condition ever seen. So, maybe a brand new keyboard may feel better. I know Unicomp's build quality and finish is bull****, but now I've decided to prioritize typing performance. In this sense, I know for sure that I have never been able to type faster and with les typos than in my Model M. I'm not sure it's the switches. I think it's because of the key spacing, angle or some other design reason that make that keyboard suit the way I type. Unlike with other modern keyboards I've tried, with the IBM I don't usually need too much precision to hit the right keys. Maybe it's made for big hands like mine.

I find this to be kinda strange considering Cherry has introduced revised stems & Leopold definitely has them. I just got a FC660M with Cherry blacks a little over a month ago from MK.com & it is super smooth. I mean like no joke surprised the hell out of me smooth since I was expecting a little scratchiness. The only thing I can think is that my 660M got switches with the revised stem & your 980M got switches from before the revision? Although for the most part my experience with Cherry switches have shown me that they do tend to be a bit scratchy when brand new, but they will break in & lose most of the scratchiness after some usage.

It's up to you if you want to return it or not but I believe if you stick with it & use it as a daily driver for a couple weeks the feel should smooth out. Good luck with whatever course of action you take with it!

Leopold may have them, but does that mean they are 1) using old stock of which they may have craploads?  2) the board he bought was made with old stock before the new switches got shipped?
It's not like Cherry said "cease and desist, our old switches are bad, discard them and only use the new batches!"

Offline Entropia

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 12:32:01 »
Believe it or not, I have sold my Unicomp Ultraclassic because I was expecting something much much better. For years I've believed that the rude feeling and sound of the buckling springs on my old IBM Model M was because my unit was old and worn out. Now I've found that I was very wrong. These switches feel the same when brand new. You have to smash the keyboard all the time. The switches perform well, and the strong tactility is there, but they do not feel fine for me. It's like typing on something rusty and old or in some kind of military device. It demands too much strength to type and you have to bottom out all the time. In my opinion it's the complete opposite to elegance. Maybe a very early Model M, which is supposed to be better built, feels nicer, but I not in the mood to find out.

Apart from this, the Unicomp quality is far from being acceptable. The case creaks when you lay your hands on the keyboard (very poor assembly), some of the legends are not in the correct vertical position, others are in the wrong horizontal position, the keycaps have lots of defects on their edges and fronts, the edges of the plastic case can almost cut your skin, etc. All this should not affect the typing experience. The big problem is that this bad quality of moulding and assembly in general also affects the functioning of the keyboard. I had to remove the spacebar and cut some excess of plastic on the inserts of the stabs, because they were making that key feel mushy. Other keys felt mushy as well, especially the long ones. Some small keys were scratchy as hell and you can hear a terrible spring noise when pressing them slowly. I found out that again, it's a problem with plastics, because changing the inner part of the keycaps solved the problem on some of the affected keys. In summary, a complete disappointment.

And believe it or not, I have ordered another Leopold FC980M. This time it's with blacks and again from Mykeyboard.eu. By the way, amazing store, very recommendable, great attention, no problem with returns, very kind to help you, very quick shipment... 10/10. After my so so experience with reds, I think blacks are the switches for me: linear and strong enough to allow me to type softly without bottoming out. That's the way I like to type with my cheap Tesoro Durandal and I love it. I hope the switches on the Leopold are not very scratchy. If they are, I will live it with and I will expect them to improve over time. The quality of this keyboard, compared to the Unicomp is day and night. I also missed its layout. The matt keycaps felt a bit strange when I tried them before, but maybe that's because I'm very used to type on ABS, which are already very soft and almost shiny in my Tesoro. As regard my problems with blank legends, I am willing to accept the challenge to learn to type without having to look at my keyboard at all. It will be hard, but I think I will make it. I just need to practice a lot with my right hand. So, I'll follow your advice and improve my accuracy and will not blame the keyboard instead.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 March 2017, 12:34:31 by Entropia »

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 13:03:57 »
Quote
You have to smash the keyboard all the time.

You really don't have to smash the keyboard. However, if you wanted to smash a buckling spring keyboard I'm sure it wouldn't mind.

Offline northpark

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 03 April 2017, 08:00:18 »
For the record, I had the exact same issue with Leopold with Reds...

Offline opensecret

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Re: Returning my Leopold :/
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 11:26:02 »
Believe it or not, I have sold my Unicomp Ultraclassic because I was expecting something much much better. For years I've believed that the rude feeling and sound of the buckling springs on my old IBM Model M was because my unit was old and worn out. Now I've found that I was very wrong. These switches feel the same when brand new. You have to smash the keyboard all the time. The switches perform well, and the strong tactility is there, but they do not feel fine for me. It's like typing on something rusty and old or in some kind of military device. It demands too much strength to type and you have to bottom out all the time. In my opinion it's the complete opposite to elegance. Maybe a very early Model M, which is supposed to be better built, feels nicer, but I not in the mood to find out.

Apart from this, the Unicomp quality is far from being acceptable. The case creaks when you lay your hands on the keyboard (very poor assembly), some of the legends are not in the correct vertical position, others are in the wrong horizontal position, the keycaps have lots of defects on their edges and fronts, the edges of the plastic case can almost cut your skin, etc. All this should not affect the typing experience. The big problem is that this bad quality of moulding and assembly in general also affects the functioning of the keyboard. I had to remove the spacebar and cut some excess of plastic on the inserts of the stabs, because they were making that key feel mushy. Other keys felt mushy as well, especially the long ones. Some small keys were scratchy as hell and you can hear a terrible spring noise when pressing them slowly. I found out that again, it's a problem with plastics, because changing the inner part of the keycaps solved the problem on some of the affected keys. In summary, a complete disappointment.

And believe it or not, I have ordered another Leopold FC980M. This time it's with blacks and again from Mykeyboard.eu. By the way, amazing store, very recommendable, great attention, no problem with returns, very kind to help you, very quick shipment... 10/10. After my so so experience with reds, I think blacks are the switches for me: linear and strong enough to allow me to type softly without bottoming out. That's the way I like to type with my cheap Tesoro Durandal and I love it. I hope the switches on the Leopold are not very scratchy. If they are, I will live it with and I will expect them to improve over time. The quality of this keyboard, compared to the Unicomp is day and night. I also missed its layout. The matt keycaps felt a bit strange when I tried them before, but maybe that's because I'm very used to type on ABS, which are already very soft and almost shiny in my Tesoro. As regard my problems with blank legends, I am willing to accept the challenge to learn to type without having to look at my keyboard at all. It will be hard, but I think I will make it. I just need to practice a lot with my right hand. So, I'll follow your advice and improve my accuracy and will not blame the keyboard instead.

There are people who love BS switches, and those who don't.  I'm with you in feeling they require too much effort. 

Even though I'm an experienced touch typist, I want every key on a board to be clearly and correctly labeled.  If you like the new board but not the caps, your friends at mykeyboard.eu will be happy to sell you a replacement set.
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