[IC]Maxkey Lime (GB live for EU and Taiwan,China)

[UTEster750]

I feel that the 2.25u novelty just need some work, not super keen on them. Not sure what about them you should change though.

[kmba]

is there a KLE showing all the caps you're thinking of including.. whether it's one kit, or multiple?  Maybe I'm an idiot and just missed it.

[kingnestea]

is there a KLE showing all the caps you're thinking of including.. whether it's one kit, or multiple?  Maybe I'm an idiot and just missed it.

I think I'm gonna make this a all-in-one kit, KLE is gonna be here over the weekend

[UTEster750]

I realized my dislike of the novelty had no actual substance, I don't think the leaves relate at all to the other novelties and the text just looks plain. I fell it would work better if it used the same sort of things as the other novelties have, and also maybe just get rid of the text on it.

[kingnestea]

I realized my dislike of the novelty had no actual substance, I don't think the leaves relate at all to the other novelties and the text just looks plain. I fell it would work better if it used the same sort of things as the other novelties have, and also maybe just get rid of the text on it.

I think it's hard to say that leaf is unrelated to a lime themed set...I've tried mint leaf without text etc, they all looked odd on the renders.

So I added the text to balance the symmetry

[UTEster750]

I realized my dislike of the novelty had no actual substance, I don't think the leaves relate at all to the other novelties and the text just looks plain. I fell it would work better if it used the same sort of things as the other novelties have, and also maybe just get rid of the text on it.

I think it's hard to say that leaf is unrelated to a lime themed set...I've tried mint leaf without text etc, they all looked odd on the renders.

So I added the text to balance the symmetry

The other novelties seem to 'mesh' together but that one just seems like the outcast, just don't feel like it quite fits.
Figured if I was going to criticize, I might as well try make it constructive in some way.

[kingnestea]

I realized my dislike of the novelty had no actual substance, I don't think the leaves relate at all to the other novelties and the text just looks plain. I fell it would work better if it used the same sort of things as the other novelties have, and also maybe just get rid of the text on it.

I think it's hard to say that leaf is unrelated to a lime themed set...I've tried mint leaf without text etc, they all looked odd on the renders.

So I added the text to balance the symmetry

The other novelties seem to 'mesh' together but that one just seems like the outcast, just don't feel like it quite fits.
Figured if I was going to criticize, I might as well try make it constructive in some way.

Maybe that's what accent keys do? I do like that 2.25u novelty a lot tbh. Anyway, I appreciate your opinion. 

[UTEster750]

I realized my dislike of the novelty had no actual substance, I don't think the leaves relate at all to the other novelties and the text just looks plain. I fell it would work better if it used the same sort of things as the other novelties have, and also maybe just get rid of the text on it.

I think it's hard to say that leaf is unrelated to a lime themed set...I've tried mint leaf without text etc, they all looked odd on the renders.

So I added the text to balance the symmetry

The other novelties seem to 'mesh' together but that one just seems like the outcast, just don't feel like it quite fits.
Figured if I was going to criticize, I might as well try make it constructive in some way.

Maybe that's what accent keys do? I do like that 2.25u novelty a lot tbh. Anyway, I appreciate your opinion. 

No worries, just trying to voice my thoughts to try make this the best set it could be

[TelFiRE]

The novelties aren't going to make or break this for me, I will be in regardless, but I tend to agree that the leaves on the 2.25 don't really seem to go with the theme. It makes me think of mint, not lime. But it's pretty minor, I'll probably just use the green return key.

Overall happy you decided to go with SP over MaxKeys and liking the general direction of this set. Really hope it gets produced!!

[heliar_mk]

Any chances to have a ergo kit？

[kingnestea]

Any chances to have a ergo kit？

Since we're running this as a all-in-one kit, I dropped a lot of compatibilities. It's sad but need to keep the pricing affordable. Ergodox is one of those that I had to let go. 

[kingnestea]

Finalized kit render by oblotzky:
More details and renders please jump to the first post

[SBJ]

Finalized kit render by oblotzky:
More details and renders please jump to the first post

(Attachment Link)

Oh yeah I could definitely see myself using this on my board.
I'll try to save up the cash and looking forward to early August!

[UTEster750]

Yeah I think I'll definitely be getting on this 

[TelFiRE]

The new renders seem a little harder to read the lime on grey than the initial ones. Hopefully it will be a case of looking better in person. Anyway looking forward to the GB, definitely in for a set.

[kingnestea]

The new renders seem a little harder to read the lime on grey than the initial ones. Hopefully it will be a case of looking better in person. Anyway looking forward to the GB, definitely in for a set.

First of all, I wanna thank you for your continuously support for this set, it's really kind of you and I really appreciate that. 
The initial renders were made by Thesiscamper and he bolded the legends. The new renders are made by oblotzky and he THE German actually measured the legends of a real cap and compared it with his renders.
But VAT does look brighter to me with the colorchip sample Melissa sent me. It's actually the modifier color and the alpha legend color of SA Troubled mind. So maybe you can compare them from pictures or a actual set with the renders.

[donutcat]

NGL, the mods are giving me flashbacks to Chronicler levels of lack of contrast, and that "near Camping" pricepoint isn't really inspiring confidence in me for the relative lack of compatibility this kit has in it.

[imprevade]

The colorway is weak, and so are the specialty legends. Let me explain:

When you eat a lime is the taste neutral, like bread or rice? Or is it bitter, and sour? I want to feel like I'm being punched in the face by a lime when I see a keyset named 'Lime.' This just feels like a variation of hyperfuse, or the many other white/grey/x color keysets that already exist.

What's your purpose in making this keyset? Are you a lime connoisseur? Do you eat, sleep, and breathe limes? If so, why is the best you can come up with just limes, lime drinks, and salt? It really feels like you just went searching for a way to incorporate green into your colorway, and went with the first thing you could think of. If that's the case, then fine. But maybe there's another theme you could use to incorporate green? Something that's more diverse, and gives you the opportunity to create some really impressive specialty legends.

I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but I just want to provide you with some critical feedback. I think anyone willing to dedicate their time to expanding this hobby we all love so much, deserves a thank you. Without people like you, none of this cool **** would exist. Make "Lime' the best it can be, and don't stop until it is.

Thanks for sharing this design with us, I'm looking forward to seeing it progress.

[kingnestea]

The colorway is weak, and so are the specialty legends. Let me explain:

When you eat a lime is the taste neutral, like bread or rice? Or is it bitter, and sour? I want to feel like I'm being punched in the face by a lime when I see a keyset named 'Lime.' This just feels like a variation of hyperfuse, or the many other white/grey/x color keysets that already exist.

What's your purpose in making this keyset? Are you a lime connoisseur? Do you eat, sleep, and breathe limes? If so, why is the best you can come up with just limes, lime drinks, and salt? It really feels like you just went searching for a way to incorporate green into your colorway, and went with the first thing you could think of. If that's the case, then fine. But maybe there's another theme you could use to incorporate green? Something that's more diverse, and gives you the opportunity to create some really impressive specialty legends.

I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but I just want to provide you with some critical feedback. I think anyone willing to dedicate their time to expanding this hobby we all love so much, deserves a thank you. Without people like you, none of this cool **** would exist. Make "Lime' the best it can be, and don't stop until it is.

Thanks for sharing this design with us, I'm looking forward to seeing it progress.

It was a pretty hot summer afternoon when I came up with this idea of lime. I don't eat lime. I intended to make this more like lime drink, and if you have ever read my IC, you would realize that I wanted to make a fresh set, so no punch or any fancy colorway. And about your criticism of white/grey/x color way like Hyperfuse and such, first of all, Nantucket selctric is a white/dark blue set as Penumbra does, I don't agree if anyone says they bring the same  impression to the user. And I do think both of them are great sets. The second, I won't call the alphas white, it's a light grey with a tad blue. So does the modifiers. Melissa has sent me samples of all the greys and blues they have and I spent a lot of time picking up colors from Pantone because they don't have the greys I wanted.

And about the novelties. I can of course spend some more time make 40 novelties like I did for Strong Spirit. But as we intended to run this as a all-in-one kit. That will bump up the pricing to nearly $300 because the order amount of keyclack.com is usually a lot less than Massdrop does and we can't reach that insane MOQ as they do with Massdrop. I don't think a lot of ppl will be happy with that pricing.

[kingnestea]

NGL, the mods are giving me flashbacks to Chronicler levels of lack of contrast, and that "near Camping" pricepoint isn't really inspiring confidence in me for the relative lack of compatibility this kit has in it.

I think the modifiers are ok since VAT is actually brighter than on renders. It also has something to do with resolution, if I look at the keyboard renders, they are ok.
About the price point thing, Lime has the same compatibility as Camping and even 2 more pg up, pg dn keys for 65% and 75%, and Camping was before SP raised their pricing. 

[imprevade]

The colorway is weak, and so are the specialty legends. Let me explain:

When you eat a lime is the taste neutral, like bread or rice? Or is it bitter, and sour? I want to feel like I'm being punched in the face by a lime when I see a keyset named 'Lime.' This just feels like a variation of hyperfuse, or the many other white/grey/x color keysets that already exist.

What's your purpose in making this keyset? Are you a lime connoisseur? Do you eat, sleep, and breathe limes? If so, why is the best you can come up with just limes, lime drinks, and salt? It really feels like you just went searching for a way to incorporate green into your colorway, and went with the first thing you could think of. If that's the case, then fine. But maybe there's another theme you could use to incorporate green? Something that's more diverse, and gives you the opportunity to create some really impressive specialty legends.

I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but I just want to provide you with some critical feedback. I think anyone willing to dedicate their time to expanding this hobby we all love so much, deserves a thank you. Without people like you, none of this cool **** would exist. Make "Lime' the best it can be, and don't stop until it is.

Thanks for sharing this design with us, I'm looking forward to seeing it progress.

It was a pretty hot summer afternoon when I came up with this idea of lime. I don't eat lime. I intended to make this more like lime drink, and if you have ever read my IC, you would realize that I wanted to make a fresh set, so no punch or any fancy colorway. And about your criticism of white/grey/x color way like Hyperfuse and such, first of all, Nantucket selctric is a white/dark blue set as Penumbra does, I don't agree if anyone says they bring the same  impression to the user. And I do think both of them are great sets. The second, I won't call the alphas white, it's a light grey with a tad blue. So does the modifiers. Melissa has sent me samples of all the greys and blues they have and I spent a lot of time picking up colors from Pantone because they don't have the greys I wanted.

And about the novelties. I can of course spend some more time make 40 novelties like I did for Strong Spirit. But as we intended to run this as a all-in-one kit. That will bump up the pricing to nearly $300 because the order amount of keyclack.com is usually a lot less than Massdrop does and we can't reach that insane MOQ as they do with Massdrop. I don't think a lot of ppl will be happy with that pricing.

If you seemingly don't care about limes, then what inspired you to make this set? It's a great story about your "hot summer day," but I don't buy it. It's a cheap way for you give 'purpose' to your color choices. If you wanted to make the green Hyperfuse/Honeywell/Chronicler, then you should just be up front about it or figure out a more meaningful way to give it a theme than "Limes."

To be clear, I'm not suggesting adding novelties—I'm suggesting replacing half-assed iconography with quality design. I don't think anyone appreciates a raised price, especially when it's due to repetitious and poorly designed novelties.

Don't be surprised when this doesn't have record sales. People are begging for a competitor to Massdrop, if the product is good—it will sell like lemonade on a "hot summer day." Don't blame Keyclack for low sales.

[Oblotzky]

If you seemingly don't care about limes, then what inspired you to make this set? It's a great story about your "hot summer day," but I don't buy it. It's a cheap way for you give 'purpose' to your color choices. If you wanted to make the green Hyperfuse/Honeywell/Chronicler, then you should just be up front about it or figure out a more meaningful way to give it a theme than "Limes."

I can't agree in the slightest that one must be an expert of something to be allowed to call a set after it. He had an idea inspired by a drink, made a set, called the set after the drink he had, fin. Let's not make a big deal out of this please. Pretty sure Jessica wasn't even playing the new Necromancer pack for Diablo 3 when she called her set Necro. Just something it reminds her of. And for Plum, she doesn't even like those...

[kingnestea]

The colorway is weak, and so are the specialty legends. Let me explain:

When you eat a lime is the taste neutral, like bread or rice? Or is it bitter, and sour? I want to feel like I'm being punched in the face by a lime when I see a keyset named 'Lime.' This just feels like a variation of hyperfuse, or the many other white/grey/x color keysets that already exist.

What's your purpose in making this keyset? Are you a lime connoisseur? Do you eat, sleep, and breathe limes? If so, why is the best you can come up with just limes, lime drinks, and salt? It really feels like you just went searching for a way to incorporate green into your colorway, and went with the first thing you could think of. If that's the case, then fine. But maybe there's another theme you could use to incorporate green? Something that's more diverse, and gives you the opportunity to create some really impressive specialty legends.

I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but I just want to provide you with some critical feedback. I think anyone willing to dedicate their time to expanding this hobby we all love so much, deserves a thank you. Without people like you, none of this cool **** would exist. Make "Lime' the best it can be, and don't stop until it is.

Thanks for sharing this design with us, I'm looking forward to seeing it progress.

It was a pretty hot summer afternoon when I came up with this idea of lime. I don't eat lime. I intended to make this more like lime drink, and if you have ever read my IC, you would realize that I wanted to make a fresh set, so no punch or any fancy colorway. And about your criticism of white/grey/x color way like Hyperfuse and such, first of all, Nantucket selctric is a white/dark blue set as Penumbra does, I don't agree if anyone says they bring the same  impression to the user. And I do think both of them are great sets. The second, I won't call the alphas white, it's a light grey with a tad blue. So does the modifiers. Melissa has sent me samples of all the greys and blues they have and I spent a lot of time picking up colors from Pantone because they don't have the greys I wanted.

And about the novelties. I can of course spend some more time make 40 novelties like I did for Strong Spirit. But as we intended to run this as a all-in-one kit. That will bump up the pricing to nearly $300 because the order amount of keyclack.com is usually a lot less than Massdrop does and we can't reach that insane MOQ as they do with Massdrop. I don't think a lot of ppl will be happy with that pricing.

If you seemingly don't care about limes, then what inspired you to make this set? It's a great story about your "hot summer day," but I don't buy it. It's a cheap way for you give 'purpose' to your color choices. If you wanted to make the green Hyperfuse/Honeywell/Chronicler, then you should just be up front about it or figure out a more meaningful way to give it a theme than "Limes."

To be clear, I'm not suggesting adding novelties—I'm suggesting replacing half-assed iconography with quality design. I don't think anyone appreciates a raised price, especially when it's due to repetitious and poorly designed novelties.

Don't be surprised when this doesn't have record sales. People are begging for a competitor to Massdrop, if the product is good—it will sell like lemonade on a "hot summer day." Don't blame Keyclack for low sales.

Why would you re-post your reply on reddit and here? Now I have to copy paste my reply again.

I'm not saying that I don't care about limes, it's just that lime to you might be different as it is from my perspective. I see it as a cold fresh drink in the summer, you see it as a bitter fruit. If I just wanted to make the green Hyperfuse/Honeywell/Chronicler, why would I spend so many time picking colors from Pantone but not straight out of those SP colors? They have enough greys for me to choose and I have all their colorchips in my hands. And I thought limestone is a thing and it's grey?
I'm not blaming Keyclack, why would I do that? I've been working with jchan for a year. It's just some sacrifice we have to make due to reality. Keyclack is a starter and I've been there since Camping, SA Camping sold like 70 sets on keyclack back with the GB, would you say the design is bad? Yet I have a guy in this thread asking for Camping R2

[imprevade]

Why would you re-post your reply on reddit and here? Now I have to copy paste my reply again.

I'm not saying that I don't care about limes, it's just that lime to you might be different as it is from my perspective. I see it as a cold fresh drink in the summer, you see it as a bitter fruit. If I just wanted to make the green Hyperfuse/Honeywell/Chronicler, why would I spend so many time picking colors from Pantone but not straight out of those SP colors? They have enough greys for me to choose and I have all their colorchips in my hands. And I thought limestone is a thing and it's grey?
I'm not blaming Keyclack, why would I do that? I've been working with jchan for a year. It's just some sacrifice we have to make due to reality. Keyclack is a starter and I've been there since Camping, SA Camping sold like 70 sets on keyclack back with the GB, would you say the design is bad? Yet I have a guy in this thread asking for Camping R2

* Posting here so both communities can be involved in the conversation.

Taking the base values of another set and changing the hue doesn't necessarily change the essence of the design as a whole. I truly don't think that you ever intended to rip off another keyset, but that doesn't change the fact that it looks a hell of a lot like them.

I was trying to stay away from commenting on your previous keysets, but since you're so bent on it, I'll bite. The reason SA Camping only sold 70 sets was because it was nothing special. Do you really thing Chocolatier, Carbon, or Godspeed wouldn't sell hundreds of sets if they dropped on Keyclack? You had a solid colorway with Camping, and some of the novelties were nice. It was also one of the first sets with the shine-through windowed keys, which gave it some flare. If it was anything more than average, it would have sold hundreds—like Dark Solarized just did.

[imprevade]

whoops, double post

[kingnestea]

Why would you re-post your reply on reddit and here? Now I have to copy paste my reply again.

I'm not saying that I don't care about limes, it's just that lime to you might be different as it is from my perspective. I see it as a cold fresh drink in the summer, you see it as a bitter fruit. If I just wanted to make the green Hyperfuse/Honeywell/Chronicler, why would I spend so many time picking colors from Pantone but not straight out of those SP colors? They have enough greys for me to choose and I have all their colorchips in my hands. And I thought limestone is a thing and it's grey?
I'm not blaming Keyclack, why would I do that? I've been working with jchan for a year. It's just some sacrifice we have to make due to reality. Keyclack is a starter and I've been there since Camping, SA Camping sold like 70 sets on keyclack back with the GB, would you say the design is bad? Yet I have a guy in this thread asking for Camping R2

* Posting here so both communities can be involved in the conversation.

Taking the base values of another set and changing the hue doesn't necessarily change the essence of the design as a whole. I truly don't think that you ever intended to rip off another keyset, but that doesn't change the fact that it looks a hell of a lot like them.

I was trying to stay away from commenting on your previous keysets, but since you're so bent on it, I'll bite. The reason SA Camping only sold 70 sets was because it was nothing special. Do you really thing Chocolatier, Carbon, or Godspeed wouldn't sell hundreds of sets if they dropped on Keyclack? You had a solid colorway with Camping, and some of the novelties were nice. It was also one of the first sets with the shine-through windowed keys, which gave it some flare. If it was anything more than average, it would have sold hundreds—like Dark Solarized just did.

I don't think I'm the one who's bent here. You started your lime expert theory here, please read the comments the others post.

If someone here in a unrelated thread asking for Camping R2 doesn't proof anything what else can I say? And that shine-through windowed key you mentioned about was a mistake, we wanted it as YCA on RBC, which the legend will glow in dark. But the one who made the artwork stated it as translucent and SP made it as it is. Ppl didn't even know it back with the GB. You just don't realize that you are not the whole world, I'm ok with you thinking this set is a rip off or what so ever, but please do not try to sound like everyone thinks the same as you do.

About Solarized dark, I don't have the numbers of keyclack yet, but it sold 23 sets in China, and I doubt the sales on keyclack was over 200, what is the average sales of a GMK set on MD again? Why can't you admit the reality?

[imprevade]

I don't think I'm the one who's bent here. You started your lime expert theory here, please read the comments the others post.
If someone here in a unrelated thread asking for Camping R2 doesn't proof anything what can I say? You just don't realize that you are not the whole world, I'm ok with you thinking this set is a rip off or what so ever, but please do not try to sound like everyone thinks the same as you do.
About Solarized dark, I don't have the numbers of keyclack yet, but it sold 23 sets in China, and I doubt the sales on keyclack was over 200, what is the average sales of a GMK set on MD again? Why can't you admit the reality?

Listen man, I'm just trying to provide some constructive criticism and help you make the set better. Take it, or leave it. I'm sorry if I've offended you, but you need to separate yourself from the design. I'm sure you're a great guy, and like I said before, " I think anyone willing to dedicate their time to expanding this hobby we all love so much, deserves a thank you."

With updated novelties, and possibly a new theme, I think you could really take this to the next level. Everything in this community is made by the community, that's one of the things that makes it great.

[kingnestea]

I don't think I'm the one who's bent here. You started your lime expert theory here, please read the comments the others post.
If someone here in a unrelated thread asking for Camping R2 doesn't proof anything what can I say? You just don't realize that you are not the whole world, I'm ok with you thinking this set is a rip off or what so ever, but please do not try to sound like everyone thinks the same as you do.
About Solarized dark, I don't have the numbers of keyclack yet, but it sold 23 sets in China, and I doubt the sales on keyclack was over 200, what is the average sales of a GMK set on MD again? Why can't you admit the reality?

Listen man, I'm just trying to provide some constructive criticism and help you make the set better. Take it, or leave it. I'm sorry if I've offended you, but you need to separate yourself from the design. I'm sure you're a great guy, and like I said before, " I think anyone willing to dedicate their time to expanding this hobby we all love so much, deserves a thank you."

With updated novelties, and possibly a new theme, I think you could really take this to the next level. Everything in this community is made by the community, that's one of the things that makes it great.

I appreciate your opinion, it's just you sounded like I'm making a rip off of Hyperfuse and such, even though you said you are not, you sounded like that. And as I said before, I don't think SA Nantucket Selectric looks like SA Penumbra with solarized alphas, simply changing the temperature of colors would give a set a whole different sense. Not even to mention if having the basic colorway between alphas and modifier is a rip off or not, would you say that SA Oblivion is a mix of Round 5 and Penumbra? It's pretty dumb to say, oh it's Hyperfuse, when you see a set with light alpha and grey modifier.
All I'm doing is to explain why I have made it this way, this goes both for the colorway and novelties. I'll surely change the design if you have a convincing argument, other than that, I think a creator should stick to his idea.

[kmba]

Gray mods and lighter gray alphas has been done time and time again in the OEM and custom worlds, and it will continue to be the basis for sets because it's classic and timeless.  You sound like a fool when you claim a gray on gray set is ripping off another set. Clearly the designer likes green (see SA camping), so what's wrong with someone just wanting to add a splash of LIME GREEN to a classic set without having it punch you in the face or without having it totally encompass the celestial spirit of the worlds most holy fruit, the lime?  If you want a punch in the face, there's plenty of ugly interest checks with in your face colors buried in the doldrums of page 100 on this forum. If you have issue with someone using a less than inspired theme for their design, pray tell what set hasn't aside from maybe Yuri? GMK plum had a few boring plum novelties...  Why call it plum?  Because it has some purple?  But it's not even the same purple as a plum.  GMK and SA Carbon.. what's with the half life novelties. What do they have to do with carbon?  And warning signs?  To warn you about carbon?  You're a carbon based life form..  Keyboard & Co was designed after a shoe....  Skeletor after a friggen cartoon character.  There's been how many runs of dolch?  How many miami based keysets?  Honeywell?  Skidata? Blatant copies. 

 If you aren't a fan of the novelties, you could simply say you think they'd be better left out or they could use some improvement.  Nothing you've said can be considered constructive criticism.  You're being destructive and your tone leaves a lot to be desired. 

[imprevade]

I appreciate your opinion, it's just you sounded like I'm making a rip off of Hyperfuse and such, even though you said you are not, you sounded like that. And as I said before, I don't think SA Nantucket Selectric looks like SA Penumbra with solarized alphas, simply changing the temperature of colors would give a set a whole different sense. Not even to mention if having the basic colorway between alphas and modifier is a rip off or not, would you say that SA Oblivion is a mix of Round 5 and Penumbra? It's pretty dumb to say, oh it's Hyperfuse, when you see a set with light alpha and grey modifier.
All I'm doing is to explain why I have made it this way, this goes both for the colorway and novelties. I'll surely change the design if you have a convincing argument, other than that, I think a creator should stick to his idea.

This is design, not art. When you're creating a painting, it's about the artist's interpretation—but you're designing a product, meant to be sold. You should take other people's opinion into every decision you make. It's easy to get attached to your own creations. It's hard when you spend so much time on something and then someone tells you it's not good enough. I'm guilty of this too. But in the end, you usually realize that the other party was right, and they only had the best interest of the project in mind.

I'm simply stating that your colorway is very similar to several other keysets that already exist. If you want to make something "fresh," you should try and find a colorway that is new and fresh. On the other hand, the off-white alphas with off-grey mods is a classic, and you've done a great job of giving it your own flavor. I think you could drastically reduce the novelties, (which would reduce the cost) and this set would have the same amount of sales. It might even give you more time to really polish the good novelties you already have, and think up some better ones. Here's a quick example of how I think a few minor changes could really improve this set.

You sound like a fool when you claim a gray on gray set is ripping off another set. Clearly the designer likes green (see SA camping), so what's wrong with someone just wanting to add a splash of LIME GREEN to a classic set without having it punch you in the face or without having it totally encompass the celestial spirit of the worlds most holy fruit, the lime?

It's either a copy or it isn't, make up your mind. I never said he was ripping off the other sets, I just said it feels like a variation of those sets. (Which you seem to agree with based off your statement above.)

If you have issue with someone using a less than inspired theme for their design, pray tell what set hasn't aside from maybe Yuri? GMK plum had a few boring plum novelties...  Why call it plum?  Because it has some purple?  But it's not even the same purple as a plum. GMK and SA Carbon.. what's with the half life novelties. What do they have to do with carbon?  And warning signs?  To warn you about carbon?  You're a carbon based life form..  Keyboard & Co was designed after a shoe....  Skeletor after a friggen cartoon character.  There's been how many runs of dolch?  How many miami based keysets?  Honeywell?  Skidata? Blatant copies. 

If you aren't a fan of the novelties, you could simply say you think they'd be better left out or they could use some improvement.  Nothing you've said can be considered constructive criticism. You're being destructive and your tone leaves a lot to be desired.

All the sets you mentioned have clear and unique colorway. I've merely suggested that the lime theme is a weak attempt to give meaning to a new flavor of a classic set.

I've offered a suggestion to change the colorway to something that better represents the theme. I've suggested keeping the colorway and coming up with a better theme that could inspire better novelties. I've offered the suggestion to remove repetitive and/or weak novelties, and explore the theme deeper. You're misreading my intention to be helpful and give direct, precise feedback.

[Oblotzky]

Here's a quick example of how I think a few minor changes could really improve this set.

(Attachment Link)

It's not really an upgrade though. Admittedly the higher contrast between alphas and modifiers is interesting (which is why I added white alphas to Oblivion), but probably not what kingnestea was aiming for, it can feel aggressive and I believe he wants to go for a more subtle set that doesn't scream as much as other sets do while still having an edge. And the 'improved' return novelty is a downgrade IMO.

You seem to be forgetting that people have different tastes

[TelFiRE]

I think the set is pretty great, and not really anything like any of the keysets out there. For people who like lime green, you really only have Terminal and Troubled Minds. There is no light, neutral colorway based around lime green like this.

I think it would be ideal if there were a few more novelties with VAT as the base color. At least one more for R3 would be very nice. No chance of a half-lime instead of the leaves for the green enter is there?

[imprevade]

It's not really an upgrade though. Admittedly the higher contrast between alphas and modifiers is interesting (which is why I added white alphas to Oblivion), but probably not what kingnestea was aiming for, it can feel aggressive and I believe he wants to go for a more subtle set that doesn't scream as much as other sets do while still having an edge. And the 'improved' return novelty is a downgrade IMO.

You seem to be forgetting that people have different tastes

I'm not. I'm just trying to participate in the community and add value where I believe I can. I think there are some weak points to the current design, and I'm here to try and help. I studied design in college, and I'm a designer by trade. Maybe not every suggestion I've made is the 'right' or 'better' choice, but if all I do is help him push his own ideas further, then I've succeeded. I seem to remember being stonewalled by you with SA Metro, right before that failed. You didn't have to take my suggestions then, but if you would have at least re-evaluated your design, it might have had a better chance at being successful. Criticism is good, and you shouldn't feel so attached to it.

[Oblotzky]

It's not really an upgrade though. Admittedly the higher contrast between alphas and modifiers is interesting (which is why I added white alphas to Oblivion), but probably not what kingnestea was aiming for, it can feel aggressive and I believe he wants to go for a more subtle set that doesn't scream as much as other sets do while still having an edge. And the 'improved' return novelty is a downgrade IMO.

You seem to be forgetting that people have different tastes

I'm not. I'm just trying to participate in the community and add value where I believe I can. I think there are some weak points to the current design, and I'm here to try and help. I studied design in college, and I'm a designer by trade. Maybe not every suggestion I've made is the 'right' or 'better' choice, but if all I do is help him push his own ideas further, then I've succeeded. I seem to remember being stonewalled by you with SA Metro, right before that failed. You didn't have to take my suggestions then, but if you would have at least re-evaluated your design, it might have had a better chance at being successful. Criticism is good, and you shouldn't feel so attached to it.

I did evaluate your input on that set, and IIRC it was mainly concerning the choice of colors and styling of station icons. I remain convinced that my approach in those regards is valid as it was inspired by my local transportation system, not the ones of some guy over in america that you adore. The real issues, which I intend to address when I revisit that set one day, is getting pricing down by going XDA (140$ was just insane for something so unconventional) and having way less blank caps.

But lets not derail this thread (get it?), I believe kingnestea has executed his vision just fine. The issue with your suggestions is rather that they break the foundation of this set. Suggesting to improve novelties is one thing, but you also seem to envision a much more aggressive choice of colors, which is simply not what kingnestea was looking to do in the first place.

[kingnestea]

I appreciate your opinion, it's just you sounded like I'm making a rip off of Hyperfuse and such, even though you said you are not, you sounded like that. And as I said before, I don't think SA Nantucket Selectric looks like SA Penumbra with solarized alphas, simply changing the temperature of colors would give a set a whole different sense. Not even to mention if having the basic colorway between alphas and modifier is a rip off or not, would you say that SA Oblivion is a mix of Round 5 and Penumbra? It's pretty dumb to say, oh it's Hyperfuse, when you see a set with light alpha and grey modifier.
All I'm doing is to explain why I have made it this way, this goes both for the colorway and novelties. I'll surely change the design if you have a convincing argument, other than that, I think a creator should stick to his idea.

This is design, not art. When you're creating a painting, it's about the artist's interpretation—but you're designing a product, meant to be sold. You should take other people's opinion into every decision you make. It's easy to get attached to your own creations. It's hard when you spend so much time on something and then someone tells you it's not good enough. I'm guilty of this too. But in the end, you usually realize that the other party was right, and they only had the best interest of the project in mind.

I'm simply stating that your colorway is very similar to several other keysets that already exist. If you want to make something "fresh," you should try and find a colorway that is new and fresh. On the other hand, the off-white alphas with off-grey mods is a classic, and you've done a great job of giving it your own flavor. I think you could drastically reduce the novelties, (which would reduce the cost) and this set would have the same amount of sales. It might even give you more time to really polish the good novelties you already have, and think up some better ones. Here's a quick example of how I think a few minor changes could really improve this set.

(Attachment Link)

You sound like a fool when you claim a gray on gray set is ripping off another set. Clearly the designer likes green (see SA camping), so what's wrong with someone just wanting to add a splash of LIME GREEN to a classic set without having it punch you in the face or without having it totally encompass the celestial spirit of the worlds most holy fruit, the lime?

It's either a copy or it isn't, make up your mind. I never said he was ripping off the other sets, I just said it feels like a variation of those sets. (Which you seem to agree with based off your statement above.)

If you have issue with someone using a less than inspired theme for their design, pray tell what set hasn't aside from maybe Yuri? GMK plum had a few boring plum novelties...  Why call it plum?  Because it has some purple?  But it's not even the same purple as a plum. GMK and SA Carbon.. what's with the half life novelties. What do they have to do with carbon?  And warning signs?  To warn you about carbon?  You're a carbon based life form..  Keyboard & Co was designed after a shoe....  Skeletor after a friggen cartoon character.  There's been how many runs of dolch?  How many miami based keysets?  Honeywell?  Skidata? Blatant copies. 

If you aren't a fan of the novelties, you could simply say you think they'd be better left out or they could use some improvement.  Nothing you've said can be considered constructive criticism. You're being destructive and your tone leaves a lot to be desired.

All the sets you mentioned have clear and unique colorway. I've merely suggested that the lime theme is a weak attempt to give meaning to a new flavor of a classic set.

I've offered a suggestion to change the colorway to something that better represents the theme. I've suggested keeping the colorway and coming up with a better theme that could inspire better novelties. I've offered the suggestion to remove repetitive and/or weak novelties, and explore the theme deeper. You're misreading my intention to be helpful and give direct, precise feedback.

I do agree that this is design not art, that's why I've been talking to designers like oblotzky and some friends that helped along the way with Camping and Strong Spirit.

For every product, there will be people liking it, and people not. What about those who like what I intended to do? I was aiming on a design with low contrast between the alphas and modifiers.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry about that, and I'm sure there will be a set that will satisfies your need and taste. You are not giving any help here tbh, you are demanding a designer to make his product as the shape you want.

And I don't really see where's the improvement of that Lime novelty you made, you simply removed the drawing and used a font for the legend.

And about your criticism of this looks too similar to some other sets, I don't wanna be discussing if adding a new flavor to a classic colorway is worth to do it or not, there has been enough discussion over that.

I'm just trying to state that you don't see the difference between similar colorways, SA Nantucket and Solarized Penumbra have their own character and are both great sets, you can't just generalize a colorway and say they are similar and not worth to do it.

You said that you studied design and why don't you get it? 

It's good that you try to participate in the community but try not to be arrogant and accept that there are different tastes, you can make suggestions but at least they shouldn't be against what I was aiming on.

[UTEster750]

I appreciate your opinion, it's just you sounded like I'm making a rip off of Hyperfuse and such, even though you said you are not, you sounded like that. And as I said before, I don't think SA Nantucket Selectric looks like SA Penumbra with solarized alphas, simply changing the temperature of colors would give a set a whole different sense. Not even to mention if having the basic colorway between alphas and modifier is a rip off or not, would you say that SA Oblivion is a mix of Round 5 and Penumbra? It's pretty dumb to say, oh it's Hyperfuse, when you see a set with light alpha and grey modifier.
All I'm doing is to explain why I have made it this way, this goes both for the colorway and novelties. I'll surely change the design if you have a convincing argument, other than that, I think a creator should stick to his idea.

This is design, not art. When you're creating a painting, it's about the artist's interpretation—but you're designing a product, meant to be sold. You should take other people's opinion into every decision you make. It's easy to get attached to your own creations. It's hard when you spend so much time on something and then someone tells you it's not good enough. I'm guilty of this too. But in the end, you usually realize that the other party was right, and they only had the best interest of the project in mind.

I'm simply stating that your colorway is very similar to several other keysets that already exist. If you want to make something "fresh," you should try and find a colorway that is new and fresh. On the other hand, the off-white alphas with off-grey mods is a classic, and you've done a great job of giving it your own flavor. I think you could drastically reduce the novelties, (which would reduce the cost) and this set would have the same amount of sales. It might even give you more time to really polish the good novelties you already have, and think up some better ones. Here's a quick example of how I think a few minor changes could really improve this set.

(Attachment Link)

You sound like a fool when you claim a gray on gray set is ripping off another set. Clearly the designer likes green (see SA camping), so what's wrong with someone just wanting to add a splash of LIME GREEN to a classic set without having it punch you in the face or without having it totally encompass the celestial spirit of the worlds most holy fruit, the lime?

It's either a copy or it isn't, make up your mind. I never said he was ripping off the other sets, I just said it feels like a variation of those sets. (Which you seem to agree with based off your statement above.)

If you have issue with someone using a less than inspired theme for their design, pray tell what set hasn't aside from maybe Yuri? GMK plum had a few boring plum novelties...  Why call it plum?  Because it has some purple?  But it's not even the same purple as a plum. GMK and SA Carbon.. what's with the half life novelties. What do they have to do with carbon?  And warning signs?  To warn you about carbon?  You're a carbon based life form..  Keyboard & Co was designed after a shoe....  Skeletor after a friggen cartoon character.  There's been how many runs of dolch?  How many miami based keysets?  Honeywell?  Skidata? Blatant copies. 

If you aren't a fan of the novelties, you could simply say you think they'd be better left out or they could use some improvement.  Nothing you've said can be considered constructive criticism. You're being destructive and your tone leaves a lot to be desired.

All the sets you mentioned have clear and unique colorway. I've merely suggested that the lime theme is a weak attempt to give meaning to a new flavor of a classic set.

I've offered a suggestion to change the colorway to something that better represents the theme. I've suggested keeping the colorway and coming up with a better theme that could inspire better novelties. I've offered the suggestion to remove repetitive and/or weak novelties, and explore the theme deeper. You're misreading my intention to be helpful and give direct, precise feedback.

I do agree that this is design not art, that's why I've been talking to designers like oblotzky and some friends that helped along the way with Camping and Strong Spirit.

For every product, there will be people liking it, and people not. What about those who like what I intended to do? I was aiming on a design with low contrast between the alphas and modifiers.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry about that, and I'm sure there will be a set that will satisfies your need and taste. You are not giving any help here tbh, you are demanding a designer to make his product as the shape you want.

And I don't really see where's the improvement of that Lime novelty you made, you simply removed the drawing and used a font for the legend.

And about your criticism of this looks too similar to some other sets, I don't wanna be discussing if adding a new flavor to a classic colorway is worth to do it or not, there has been enough discussion over that.

I'm just trying to state that you don't see the difference between similar colorways, SA Nantucket and Solarized Penumbra have their own character and are both great sets, you can't just generalize a colorway and say they are similar and not worth to do it.

You said that you studied design and why don't you get it? 

It's good that you try to participate in the community but try not to be arrogant and accept that there are different tastes, you can make suggestions but at least they shouldn't be against what I was aiming on.

It is your set mate, do with it what you like. People will buy it if they like it and won't if they don't like. Plenty suggested changes, at the end of the day it is you that has the final say.

[amnesia0287]

About Solarized dark, I don't have the numbers of keyclack yet, but it sold 23 sets in China, and I doubt the sales on keyclack was over 200, what is the average sales of a GMK set on MD again? Why can't you admit the reality?

I actually like the idea behind this set, though it may be too expensive for me to justify the spend for 10 months out. But please don't spew bull**** to justify yourself. Solarized Dark sold 387 sets. It's literally listed on the page: https://www.keyclack.com/groupbuy/gmkSolarizedDarkR1

That's not less than 200.

[imprevade]

I do agree that this is design not art, that's why I've been talking to designers like oblotzky and some friends that helped along the way with Camping and Strong Spirit.

For every product, there will be people liking it, and people not. What about those who like what I intended to do? I was aiming on a design with low contrast between the alphas and modifiers.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry about that, and I'm sure there will be a set that will satisfies your need and taste. You are not giving any help here tbh, you are demanding a designer to make his product as the shape you want.

And about your criticism of this looks too similar to some other sets, I don't wanna be discussing if adding a new flavor to a classic colorway is worth to do it or not, there has been enough discussion over that.

It's good that you try to participate in the community but try not to be arrogant and accept that there are different tastes, you can make suggestions but at least they shouldn't be against what I was aiming on.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply telling you some ways I think the set could be better. You have no obligation to listen to me, and I've said before, I could be wrong.

I'm just trying to state that you don't see the difference between similar colorways, SA Nantucket and Solarized Penumbra have their own character and are both great sets, you can't just generalize a colorway and say they are similar and not worth to do it.

You said that you studied design and why don't you get it?

I don't know why you keep bringing that up, or why you think I don't understand Penumbra/Nantucket. Nantucket is a very similar colorway to Penumbra. It appeared at a time when there was no R2 of Penumbra in the foreseeable future. It was able to fill that gap, but at the same time, be a new set with a clear and well designed theme.

And I don't really see where's the improvement of that Lime novelty you made, you simply removed the drawing and used a font for the legend.

That was actually painted by hand, in Photoshop with a Wacom tablet. If you think it's good enough to be a font, thank you. It's not perfect, because I only spent a few minutes on it. I'm just trying to help you envision something better, more fitting.

Here's another render. I've made the mod legends darker, which definitely helps with the contrast problem—but honestly, I don't think I like it as much. It's hard to contrast against such a mid-tone grey.

[kingnestea]

About Solarized dark, I don't have the numbers of keyclack yet, but it sold 23 sets in China, and I doubt the sales on keyclack was over 200, what is the average sales of a GMK set on MD again? Why can't you admit the reality?

I actually like the idea behind this set, though it may be too expensive for me to justify the spend for 10 months out. But please don't spew bull**** to justify yourself. Solarized Dark sold 387 sets. It's literally listed on the page: https://www.keyclack.com/groupbuy/gmkSolarizedDarkR1

That's not less than 200.

That number is including the Asia sales and EU sales which is around 100, but if I'm wrong, ok, it got to 200, and even 300, is that even the half of the sales MD usually made? I'm not trying to spew bull**** to justify myself. Joseph shares sheets with me for every gb sales and his stock, I know exactly how keyclack is doing compare to MD. Even I might got the numbers of GMK Solarized wrong because that aren't finalized yet, doesn't mean what I was trying to say is non-sense. Keyclack is not yet as big as MD is and can't reach out to as many audiences as MD does.

[kingnestea]

I do agree that this is design not art, that's why I've been talking to designers like oblotzky and some friends that helped along the way with Camping and Strong Spirit.

For every product, there will be people liking it, and people not. What about those who like what I intended to do? I was aiming on a design with low contrast between the alphas and modifiers.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry about that, and I'm sure there will be a set that will satisfies your need and taste. You are not giving any help here tbh, you are demanding a designer to make his product as the shape you want.

And about your criticism of this looks too similar to some other sets, I don't wanna be discussing if adding a new flavor to a classic colorway is worth to do it or not, there has been enough discussion over that.

It's good that you try to participate in the community but try not to be arrogant and accept that there are different tastes, you can make suggestions but at least they shouldn't be against what I was aiming on.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply telling you some ways I think the set could be better. You have no obligation to listen to me, and I've said before, I could be wrong.

I'm just trying to state that you don't see the difference between similar colorways, SA Nantucket and Solarized Penumbra have their own character and are both great sets, you can't just generalize a colorway and say they are similar and not worth to do it.

You said that you studied design and why don't you get it?

I don't know why you keep bringing that up, or why you think I don't understand Penumbra/Nantucket. Nantucket is a very similar colorway to Penumbra. It appeared at a time when there was no R2 of Penumbra in the foreseeable future. It was able to fill that gap, but at the same time, be a new set with a clear and well designed theme.

And I don't really see where's the improvement of that Lime novelty you made, you simply removed the drawing and used a font for the legend.

That was actually painted by hand, in Photoshop with a Wacom tablet. If you think it's good enough to be a font, thank you. It's not perfect, because I only spent a few minutes on it. I'm just trying to help you envision something better, more fitting.

Here's another render. I've made the mod legends darker, which definitely helps with the contrast problem—but honestly, I don't think I like it as much. It's hard to contrast against such a mid-tone grey.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

I'm gonna cut this non-sense fight. It's stupid and childish. Thank you for your advise.
About that "contrast problem", it might be a issue of the renders, I measured the legend size of the renders and a actual cap, they are kinda thinner in the renders, oblotzky will look into that.
To be honest, I don't believe there will be a contrast problem of the modifiers, ppl are just still in fear of Chronicler but the issue of chronicler was the alphas, not modifiers. Cyan went well on the grey modifiers.
VAT is a quite bright green almost as bright as neon yellow green, it's comparable with cyan.

[kmba]

OPs color selections look better than the proposed alternates.  Nothing but support and good words from all but one.  Carry on.

[imprevade]

I'm gonna cut this non-sense fight. It's stupid and childish. Thank you for your advise.
About that "contrast problem", it might be a issue of the renders, I measured the legend size of the renders and a actual cap, they are kinda thinner in the renders, oblotzky will look into that.
To be honest, I don't believe there will be a contrast problem of the modifiers, ppl are just still in fear of Chronicler but the issue of chronicler was the alphas, not modifiers. Cyan went well on the grey modifiers.
VAT is a quite bright green almost as bright as neon yellow green, it's comparable with cyan.

You're right man. Sorry for being overly blunt with my opinions. Good luck with the set.

OPs color selections look better than the proposed alternates.

I agree. Without changing the base color of the modifiers, the lime green looks best. I hope OP is right, and the actual product won't be another case of Chronicler.

[kingnestea]

updated 28th, redirected to Maxkey

[lovetree]

updated 28th, redirected to Maxkey

If this set is to be done by Maxkey, how are the novelties?
Are there changes on design and number of novelties?

[kingnestea]

updated 28th, redirected to Maxkey

If this set is to be done by Maxkey, how are the novelties?
Are there changes on design and number of novelties?

I still have to summit the novelties to them to verify, design will not be changed, but it'll be limited to ~10. I'll update the kit render later tonight.

[imprevade]

Good lord, Thesiscamper, those renders are out of sight. Taking things to the next level!

[TelFiRE]

Updated July 28th,

After talking to jchan and Maxkey, I'm doing Lime with Maxkey, they promised to fix the current issues with their "Shif t" and "Back space" and some inconsistency problems and will provide samples for verification(Legends/colors/novelties etc) before production.

Damn. That is a huuuuuuuuge bummer. I am out then. Sorry but I don't trust that Maxkey would fix these issues, if they were going to do it they would've by now. They have run set after set after set after set with zero improvement. Also, Shif T and Back Space are only 2 of the issues, the majority of legends aren't centered properly, Return is a completely different font, and escape goes to the very edges of the key. Since these legends were just purchased from SP I don't see how they even have any experience that shows they can make good ones.

GL with the set.

[MeloDet]

Awesome! I'm still in if you go with Maxkeys

[kingnestea]

Updated July 28th,

After talking to jchan and Maxkey, I'm doing Lime with Maxkey, they promised to fix the current issues with their "Shif t" and "Back space" and some inconsistency problems and will provide samples for verification(Legends/colors/novelties etc) before production.

Damn. That is a huuuuuuuuge bummer. I am out then. Sorry but I don't trust that Maxkey would fix these issues, if they were going to do it they would've by now. They have run set after set after set after set with zero improvement.

GL with the set.

They are fixing those issues after the production of miami night, and will provide samples for us to verify before starting the production for Lime. I do think they are trusted and really wanna do this set.

[TelFiRE]

They'd need more than 50% new legends to fix all the problems, it's not going to happen, they are making promises they can't keep if they told you that.

Really sorry to be negative, I love your set and I hope it does really well. Liking it so much is why I'm so bummed it's gonna be done through Maxkey. They still take forever, I don't understand why anyone is okay with that level of quality. Their caps should cost $15 a set until they fix their issues. Sorry, just how I feel. Really do wish you luck with the set.