Author Topic: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?  (Read 2727 times)

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Online tp4tissue

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Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 08:30:28 »
So,  there're 2 models of their big-boy cordless impact wrench out right now.


889 20v max, (brushed)

and

89x 20v max xr, (brushless)....




The 889 is rated for 400ftlb of torque

The 89x is rated for 700ftlb of torque



Last time I checked,  a brushless motor is more efficient but NOT + 75% torque..


Then there's that clipboard youtube guy, who measured the Dynamic torque of the 89x @ 410ish ftlb..

There's been no dynamic torque rating of 889 seen..



Am starting to wonder if the 889 and 89x actually have much closer specs,  but Dewalt's trying to Trick us like 6 Peak Horsepower shop vacs.. (which are actually only 2hp)

It seems more realistic that the dynamic torque of the 889 would be something like 300ftlb.


Damit, where is kurplop


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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 10:03:15 »
Get a Hilti and call it a day! ;)

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 10:06:33 »
Brushless is dramatically better when compared to a brushed motor. I know from my experience in the R/C hobby, I would consider that to be near correct. They have a crazy amount of torque!

Offline 0100010

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 10:08:35 »
Wonder how different the hammers are internally.  Also, larger bearing surface on the 89x (not that that would matter that much).
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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 10:25:37 »
Wonder how different the hammers are internally.  Also, larger bearing surface on the 89x (not that that would matter that much).

the 89x is a bit bigger in hammer diameter for sure.... 

Offline Auk

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 10:31:28 »
...trying to Trick us like 6 Peak Horsepower shop vacs..

Power tools are just one more category of products where marketing and BS rule the spec sheets e.g. all those voltage specs are BS, 12v is actually 10.8v - the only time you see 12v when the battery is 100% charged, as soon as you start using the tool and the battery voltage immediately drops close to the real spec, but you know bigger numbers sound better...

Another example is power of routers. I looked at a consumer model claiming 1200W power. Delving deeper I realized that the power at the tool head was still less than an honestly specified 800W professional tool.

For torque and there is much more to consider than just the motor. Is the transmission metal or plastic?  how are the teeth profiled? what is the gear ratio? etc. Impact drivers and wrenches can also be rated for 'hard torque' and 'soft torque.' The high number is the peak maximum to start driving or loosening the the screw or bolt. The lower number is what the torque will build to as a screw is driven home.


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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 10:32:39 »
Anyone taking highskool phyx ?


Tp4 remembers that kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the force applied ?


So... if the KE    is 2x the other,    then  the force applied is 1.4x ??


ALSO,  if work = delta ke,   if we go from stand still,  does that mean w = ke(final) = .5mv^2

Offline 0100010

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 11:58:43 »
Sort of related :

  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 13:08:13 »
Since you asked tp, here I am. I think Auk summed it up better than I could. I'd only add that the total mass of the tool can also affect the usable torque that gets delivered to the bolt, screw, or nut. Probably not as much as a non-impact tool but it is still a factor.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 15:41:23 »
Since you asked tp, here I am. I think Auk summed it up better than I could. I'd only add that the total mass of the tool can also affect the usable torque that gets delivered to the bolt, screw, or nut. Probably not as much as a non-impact tool but it is still a factor.


kurplop.. dewalt vs makita weeboo wrench..   xpert opinion..


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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 18:04:18 »
I'm a Makita man but a lot of the guys in the trade use DeWalt so I say either is a good choice

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 21:31:27 »
One reason I like  Makita is that I've found their 18v 3ah batteries to be long lasting and reliable. It's also nice to stay with the same brand  so you don't have to have batteries and chargers for each tool. Over the past 15 years I've probably bought about 12 to 14 batteries and only 4 or 5 have gone bad. That has been under more rigorous conditions than most homeowner/hobbyest would see.

I've pretty much given up on Milwaukee because of poor battery performance. I've invested in 18 and 28 volt systems and can't count on more than a years use from them. Pretty sad when you pay $100-$140 for a battery.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 30 August 2017, 21:56:59 »
One reason I like  Makita is that I've found their 18v 3ah batteries to be long lasting and reliable. It's also nice to stay with the same brand  so you don't have to have batteries and chargers for each tool. Over the past 15 years I've probably bought about 12 to 14 batteries and only 4 or 5 have gone bad. That has been under more rigorous conditions than most homeowner/hobbyest would see.

I've pretty much given up on Milwaukee because of poor battery performance. I've invested in 18 and 28 volt systems and can't count on more than a years use from them. Pretty sad when you pay $100-$140 for a battery.


Makita seems to be really pushing their new rubber dampener system between the handle and battery..

But, is that a plastic cuff connection with rubber grommet-ting,  or is it a rubber to rubber connection only.. i can't tell..

Looking at their  XWT08Z

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 00:45:15 »
I only have pneumatic impact wrenches so I don't know anything about that model. Is the dampener to protect the battery or the operator?

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 00:53:52 »
I only have pneumatic impact wrenches so I don't know anything about that model. Is the dampener to protect the battery or the operator?

it's to protect the battery electronics..

but i've had (bio-degradable) rubber (degrade) on me..  so , i'm not sure how that cuff section works.

Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 04:15:30 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 09:03:51 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

how good are their new drills..

I only have their older compact drill.. it's pretty decent.

but then they rate their new drill at much higher  UWO,  which is another unit they invented. hahahaha

Offline Auk

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 09:33:40 »
I suspect you might be overthinking things TP. Makita and Dewalt should both be fine.

What I would be considering is whether one brand vs another has more or fewer tools that I need/want that are compatible with the battery system. I'd also look at the local prices, availability and how easy it is to get repair under warranty. Finally I wouldn't necessarily choose the tool with the most power, I'd choose enough power and the tool that is shortest/most compact front to back.

Maybe you can find some more useful nuggets of information on one of these blogs: http://toolsinaction.com/ & http://toolguyd.com/

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 12:08:12 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

XR is legit, I used to use to be a Makita-Man, I'll only buy DeWalt now. :D Welcome to #TeamDrillersElite

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 12:23:56 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

XR is legit, I used to use to be a Makita-Man, I'll only buy DeWalt now. :D Welcome to #TeamDrillersElite


I am going to home depot later today to buy the xr..  i think i'm pretty much decided..


I'll have to look at the makita, if they have that on the floor,  but  I'm still weary of that handle cuff..

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 12:27:03 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

XR is legit, I used to use to be a Makita-Man, I'll only buy DeWalt now. :D Welcome to #TeamDrillersElite


I am going to home depot later today to buy the xr..  i think i'm pretty much decided..


I'll have to look at the makita, if they have that on the floor,  but  I'm still weary of that handle cuff..

When I bought my XR Amazon Prime had it cheaper than the Depot..

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 12:31:23 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

XR is legit, I used to use to be a Makita-Man, I'll only buy DeWalt now. :D Welcome to #TeamDrillersElite


I am going to home depot later today to buy the xr..  i think i'm pretty much decided..


I'll have to look at the makita, if they have that on the floor,  but  I'm still weary of that handle cuff..

I used to be a fan of makita, and have them for the house. Then used Milwaukee for a bit at work. Then the XR line. Of them all XR was hands down the best. I'm going to be getting new power tools soon and am planning on going with the XR line.

I'm no expert when it comes to power tools. But from daily use in an industrial environment, I never had issues with Dewalt.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 13:45:00 »
I use an older version of www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.22-volt-lithium-ion-14-inch-hex-cordless-sid-4-compact-impact-driver.1001059412.html

This thing hauls ass, and takes a beating without issue.

It is expensive, but you pay for what you get.
« Last Edit: Thu, 31 August 2017, 13:46:40 by Gajible »

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 13:51:11 »
If you are looking to purchase, get the XR.  I have used both of these models, as well as their drills, in my last job, and the XR/brushless outperform the brushed models.  If you are putting in any sort of real work with them, the brushless model will outwork the brushed any day.

XR is legit, I used to use to be a Makita-Man, I'll only buy DeWalt now. :D Welcome to #TeamDrillersElite


I am going to home depot later today to buy the xr..  i think i'm pretty much decided..


I'll have to look at the makita, if they have that on the floor,  but  I'm still weary of that handle cuff..

I want to see what you are drilling TP. That's a lot of drill to just take battery covers off with.

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 16:33:46 »
Get a Hilti and call it a day! ;)

Would you like the complimentary BMW or AUDI with your Hilti purchase sir?

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 21:21:40 »
Get a Hilti and call it a day! ;)

Would you like the complimentary BMW or AUDI with your Hilti purchase sir?

I mean... If you're offering!

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 21:26:25 »
Get a Hilti and call it a day! ;)

Would you like the complimentary BMW or AUDI with your Hilti purchase sir?

I mean... If you're offering!



I am not convinced hilti is any higher quality.


Their business model is different, the tools are part of a service system, which comes at that price.


but,  overall,   no matter how much money you pour into the single tool itself,  you can't make MUCH better a tool,  because this is pretty low tech stuff..


Offline Coreda

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 31 August 2017, 22:36:33 »
but,  overall,   no matter how much money you pour into the single tool itself,  you can't make MUCH better a tool,  because this is pretty low tech stuff..

I think part of it is how long something will last, not only how well it performs in a particular test. It's why I enjoy watching that Canadian guy I linked in that last power toolz thread, as he describes which parts will fail first and how well each part is made. Took apart a cheap Harbor Freight drill in his last video which promoted itself as a cheaper but 'equivalent quality' drill to a DeWalt but after examining it found some key issues that would cause it to not last as long (in addition to having BS marketing).

Offline nugglets

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 00:01:59 »
but,  overall,   no matter how much money you pour into the single tool itself,  you can't make MUCH better a tool,  because this is pretty low tech stuff..

I think part of it is how long something will last, not only how well it performs in a particular test. It's why I enjoy watching that Canadian guy I linked in that last power toolz thread, as he describes which parts will fail first and how well each part is made. Took apart a cheap Harbor Freight drill in his last video which promoted itself as a cheaper but 'equivalent quality' drill to a DeWalt but after examining it found some key issues that would cause it to not last as long (in addition to having BS marketing).

Anyone who believes Harbor Freight tools to be high quality is a goon, honestly. They're cheap as hell, though, and frankly for moderate use they're fine in most cases. There's also a pretty easy way to hustle their paid warranty system to end up with a new tool every year for a few bucks. It covers any kind of damage so you can literally run it over after 364 days, walk in with the pieces and walk out with a new tool.

Back when I used to help paint cars on the side we used the Harbor Freight spray guns. A Devilbiss was something like $200, the HF one was $12 (or even $8 on sale sometimes). The 1 year warranty was $4. I could get a new one once a year for 47 years and still come out ahead, assuming the Devilbiss lasted that long. Or a new one every three months for 12 years, since the warranty is a one-time use thing.

Then I ended up working at HF as a second job for awhile and I always told people the same thing. It didn't hurt that we made commission on sales of the warranties, either.  :cool:

The warranty prices scale with the price of the tool, though, so it's not always a good idea. But there are certainly a lot of things where it makes sense for someone who will only use the tool occasionally.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 03:36:13 »
Diminishing returns, for sure.. But like keyboards, you get a bunch of slightly better things that stack up to a superior product.

Flawless overmold and injection molds, generally more glass fibre and metal bits, wobble free chucks, the works!


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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 07:08:16 »
Cheap tools can be part of an intelligent tool buying strategy. Rarely used tools don't always have to be high quality and occasionally they perform as well as the high end one. Sometimes, quality used tools are a good direction to go. It all depends on the needs and budget of the user.

Two equally amusing situations are the true craftsman who is able to get by with a minimum of tools and the incompetent owner of a fully equipped shop.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 07:25:44 »
Cheap tools can be part of an intelligent tool buying strategy. Rarely used tools don't always have to be high quality and occasionally they perform as well as the high end one. Sometimes, quality used tools are a good direction to go. It all depends on the needs and budget of the user.

One of the things the teardown notes is it's really only saving about $10 compared to the DeWalt if you match the dual batteries the DeWalt comes vs the single one they come with with as per their own side-by-side comparison. Basically the consumer is saving on the price of a single battery. Though for a lot of people if it's in their budget and only being used occasionally it likely wouldn't matter (plus that warranty trick above is great :p).

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 11:01:23 »
Cheap tools can be part of an intelligent tool buying strategy. Rarely used tools don't always have to be high quality and occasionally they perform as well as the high end one. Sometimes, quality used tools are a good direction to go. It all depends on the needs and budget of the user.

One of the things the teardown notes is it's really only saving about $10 compared to the DeWalt if you match the dual batteries the DeWalt comes vs the single one they come with with as per their own side-by-side comparison. Basically the consumer is saving on the price of a single battery. Though for a lot of people if it's in their budget and only being used occasionally it likely wouldn't matter (plus that warranty trick above is great :p).

well....

the harbor freight version goes on very deep 30-40% sales though..   + free scissors !!!!!



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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 13:00:46 »
The HF drill bits I bought bent!

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 15:04:40 »
Rotated the tires today..

didn't need to be rotated,  just doin' it to test out the wrench..


Super powerful..  came right off in 2-3 seconds...

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 15:07:25 »
haha, grats on the new impact wrench

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 15:16:20 »
The HF drill bits I bought bent!

They are meant to do that, so you can get around corners with them.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 15:31:27 »
The HF drill bits I bought bent!

They are meant to do that, so you can get around corners with them.

Harbor freight is ran by the Loom of Fate..


Them people from Wanted who can curve bullets now also curve drill bits..


Morgan Freeman:

If no one told you that drills drilled straight, and I gave you a dewalt and told you to curve the hole, what would you do? Let your instincts guide you.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 09 September 2017, 20:30:54 »
Hahahaha, hurricane irma resident putting up storm proof windows using a craftsman drill.. looks like he's struggling,  should've gotten the Dewilt..

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 25 September 2017, 05:41:44 »
This might help when narrowinh down tool choices TP4...

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 10:09:40 »
Dewalt claims the 899 has 1200 foot lbs of break away torque BTW. There is a video on the Tube on it, it can take off just every nut you put it on.. I really want that 899 with the hog ring, it's b8d8zz.

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 10:49:03 »
Dewalt claims the 899 has 1200 foot lbs of break away torque BTW. There is a video on the Tube on it, it can take off just every nut you put it on.. I really want that 899 with the hog ring, it's b8d8zz.

I didn't get the hog ring, because i don't do work on things that have a bunch of different size nuts.

So the regular dent pin insert has more contact surface area.. better power transfer to the socket.


It doesn't have 1200 , it has 400,  but if you hit a 1200 tightened bolt with 400 long enough, you can get it loose.


But this is not the case with loosening rusty cold nuts.. 


It's like them wifi routers with the cheater numbers like AC1900..  when you really only get 500

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 10:50:39 »
Dewalt claims the 899 has 1200 foot lbs of break away torque BTW. There is a video on the Tube on it, it can take off just every nut you put it on.. I really want that 899 with the hog ring, it's b8d8zz.

I didn't get the hog ring, because i don't do work on things that have a bunch of different size nuts.

So the regular dent pin insert has more contact surface area.. better power transfer to the socket.



Did you get the 899?

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 10:52:43 »
Dewalt claims the 899 has 1200 foot lbs of break away torque BTW. There is a video on the Tube on it, it can take off just every nut you put it on.. I really want that 899 with the hog ring, it's b8d8zz.

I didn't get the hog ring, because i don't do work on things that have a bunch of different size nuts.

So the regular dent pin insert has more contact surface area.. better power transfer to the socket.



Did you get the 899?

I got both..

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 10:56:30 »
Dewalt claims the 899 has 1200 foot lbs of break away torque BTW. There is a video on the Tube on it, it can take off just every nut you put it on.. I really want that 899 with the hog ring, it's b8d8zz.

I didn't get the hog ring, because i don't do work on things that have a bunch of different size nuts.

So the regular dent pin insert has more contact surface area.. better power transfer to the socket.



Did you get the 899?

I got both..

Sell me your 899, I already have the battery and changer :D

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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 11:01:04 »

I got both..

Sell me your 899, I already have the battery and changer :D

I didn't get the makita.

I only have the dewal  889 and 899


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Re: Dewalt = Fake Torque ?
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 11:15:37 »

I got both..

Sell me your 899, I already have the battery and changer :D

I didn't get the makita.

I only have the dewal  889 and 899



I want the Dewalt 899