Hot-swappable question

[Jubbers]

Explanation:
So I recently started looking around for a new keyboard and chose the g pro from Logitech(never had an rgb mechanical keyboard before and it was on sale for $100).  The board was beautiful, it had perfect light distribution without light bleed which was simply stunning, the switches weren't bad either(did ping a lot though which was the worst part of the keyboard). A few hours after I finished messing around with the lighting I started to play games and that's when it hit me, I don't look down at the keyboard unless I leave my desk.  After that it was done, all I could think about is how I payed for an ascetically pleasing keyboard that I never look at. A few days later I returned it, and im thinking about getting something that would be a lot better.  I came across a lot of keyboards from Ducky, Filco and Leopold.  Iv been researching for about a week and I realized there is something called hot-swaping(hot-swappable) which allows people to pull off the switch from pcb mounted keyboards and change them whenever they want without desoldering and resoldering the switch from the pcb(some plate mounted switches allow hot-swapping but most don't, from what I read).  I have my heart set on the Leopold fc750r which is a tenkeyless board with great build quality(less pinging than "gamer" focused boards).

Question:
Is there different types of hot-swapping? I seen some people pull the switch out completely and replace it with a different one(hot-swapping).  I have also seen some people use a two piece tool to remove the top half of the switch and replace the stem/spring while the bottom half was still attached to the pcb. BOTH METHODS WERE SEEN ON A PLATE MOUNTED PCB.  Are they both considered hot-swapping?

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION:
I was looking at the Leopold fc750r without keycaps and it looks like the top half of the switch is above the plate, can I use a tool to remove the top half of the switch and replace the stem and/or spring?


I would also like to know what keyboard you guys think has the least(hopefully none) amount of ping.  Im usually in a quiet room so I hear the resonance clearly.

[Blaise170]

Using a tool to open the switch isn't the same as hot swapping. Usually you would open a switch to change the weighting to make it heavier or lighter. Hot swapping is completely changing the switch itself. I don't know if the Leopold supports spring-swapping but most boards don't since you need special cutouts in the plate in order to allow room for the switch tabs to pop out. If you don't like ping, stay away from Alps.

[Kevadu]

Question:
Is there different types of hot-swapping? I seen some people pull the switch out completely and replace it with a different one(hot-swapping).  I have also seen some people use a two piece tool to remove the top half of the switch and replace the stem/spring while the bottom half was still attached to the pcb. BOTH METHODS WERE SEEN ON A PLATE MOUNTED PCB.  Are they both considered hot-swapping?

No.  "Hot-swapping" refers specifically to being able to swap out the switch from the PCB without having to solder or desolder anything.  There are different methods to make a hot-swap capable PCB (holtites, Kailh's hot-swap sockets, etc.) but they're all for this purpose.  What you are describing is modding a switch in-place without removing it.  For MX-style switches that's generally not possible if there's a plate.  It may be possible if there are special cutouts in the plate to allow it but that's pretty unusual.  In an Alps switch on the other hand this is relatively easy to do.

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION:
I was looking at the Leopold fc750r without keycaps and it looks like the top half of the switch is above the plate, can I use a tool to remove the top half of the switch and replace the stem and/or spring?

The top half of the switch is always above the plate.  I mean the switches themselves start getting narrower beyond the midpoint so they wouldn't fit securely in the plate otherwise.  The problem is that the actual clips that hold the top and bottom housing together extend well into the bottom half of the switch.  Maybe if you're extremely dexterous and had a tool you could slip between the plate and PCB you could loosen those clips but I don't think that would be very easy...

I would also like to know what keyboard you guys think has the least(hopefully none) amount of ping.  Im usually in a quiet room so I hear the resonance clearly.

Are you talking about spring ping or some other sound?  Usually when people talk about 'ping' in their keyboards they're talking specifically about the sound the springs can sometimes make when they resonate.  However most of the time the spring ping is much less noticeable than other sounds that keyboards make.  If it's really ping that you're concerned about that can usually be reduced by lubing the spring itself.

[killyou]

What I recommend to do is:

A:

1. Nail down the keyboard size you really want. I went Full size -> TKL -> 64% -> 60% and settled there.
2. Get your preferred keyboard with the most suitable stock switch for you.
3. Rock it for couple of weeks/months, get ahold of switch testers and decide which one would be an improvement for you.
4. Check which hotswaps/holtites would be compatible and order them OR sell your board and proceed to B
5. Desolder switches off your bord and put sockets in
6. Replace the switches

If you are sure of what you want to do then

B:

1. Order parts, hot swap sockets and do your own custom build (no soldering/desoldering required)

I hotsocketed my Pok3r and it was totally worth it, but it might not be trivial to do for some people. The best part is you can treat your keyboard is a giant switch tester. I went through couple of different switches and now I now what I like. My next keyboard could be a custom at this point but I like Pok3r very much and it's cheap so I will probably buy another black Pok3r and make it hot swappable and put Kail BOX Royal switches if they are any good and some clicks like BOX Navy or smth.

[Jubbers]

Thanks for all the replys guys. I understand why people say you are forced to desolder and resolder the switches now.
So to go even further If I go with a Leopold fc750r and I want to be able to mod the switches(take the top half off), could I do so by replacing just the plate(with one that supports modding switches) or is there a special type of pcb that's required too?

Iv seen some alps boards and i'm not really sure what to think about it.  Pros and cons?  Iv also looked into topre and the only thing that bothers me is replacing the key caps.  If the nova touch from coolermaster was still around I would jump on that in a heartbeat(topre switches, cherry stem compatible). 
The switch Id probably like the best are cherry reds.  I really like the idea of being able to find double shot keycaps fairly easy.  Also, I bottom out keys really hard so the tactile bump, clicky or not, doesn't really do anything but make the keyboard louder, I tried touch typing before and im not a big fan.  Tbh the real reason I want to mod switches is to change any cherry stem without doing any soldering.  Would also be cool to try mx clears with lubed 45g spring, just for fun.

Yeah, the ping I'm talking about the spring noise.  I wouldn't mind if it wasn't loud but like I said my apartment is really quiet so I can hear it even more.  It also doesn't help that I bottom/top out really hard, which if you don't know, makes the ping way worse and more noticeable.

@killyou
I was looking into making my own board but the hotsocketed method didn't look too sturdy for some reason, even hot-swapping seems kinda sketchy. I feel like modding switches might be more for me considering id eventually want to test different stems(cherry, gateron and outemu) with different springs. 
As for size, I need a TKL because I move around a lot(Im on an airplane at least 4 times a year).  I really don't like anything smaller because there is too many missing keys and I feel like id tilt if I had to use the function key to use a duel key mapping layout.  Also really want the cord to be removable for easier transport.

[Blaise170]

Based on the images I see online, the FC750r doesn't have the cutouts, so you would need to get a custom plate to do so (which would require you desoldering all of your switches). Even if you did mod the switches you wouldn't be able to put a 45g spring in Clears because of the slider shape. I don't like Topre myself, but some people swear by it so you'd have to try it to see.

Alps switches are my favorite and I find them far better than most other switches (other than some really obscure ones like vintage Micro Switch). There are two major downsides to Alps though, which is a lack of custom boards/keysets and the spring resonance which makes most Alps boards REALLY pingy. I actually quite like the ping myself but I could see it being annoying to others. If you like lightweight linears and you are interested in Alps, you would probably want to look for a Green Alps board which are typically pretty expensive (I'm selling one right now for $125).

[Jubbers]

I see, so even if I wanted to replace the plate I would have to desolder the switches.  Its good to know its possible though. 

I would go alps but it seems like its easier to find keycaps that are cherry stem compatible.  There is lot of keycaps for alps too, but It feels a little limited at times.  But thanks for the offer my dude.

[jcoffin1981]

This is a novel and brilliant concept these swap sockets.  I've just about decided I'm done tinkering with lubing and springs and switches, but now relatively inexpensively I can experiement without all the labor.

Does anyone know where I can purchase these swap sockets?  "Killyou" mentions he has them on his Pok3r which is what I'd do, though that board may not survive  being soldered  and desoldered again.

[Tom_Kazansky]

This is a novel and brilliant concept these swap sockets.  I've just about decided I'm done tinkering with lubing and springs and switches, but now relatively inexpensively I can experiement without all the labor.

Does anyone know where I can purchase these swap sockets?  "Killyou" mentions he has them on his Pok3r which is what I'd do, though that board may not survive  being soldered  and desoldered again.

There are two types of swap sockets:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-2022834851.23.3e1f51ffkCugyA&id=44075927466
these should work on some existing PCBs. (yes, not all)
if you want your Pok3r to be hot-swappable, these are for you. (I cannot confirm the compatibility though)

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=558289131998
these are used by InputClub's K-Type board, requires that you design a PCB specialized for them.

[tp4tissue]

Fact of the matter is..

People simply don't use the feature..

[SpAmRaY]

Fact of the matter is..

People simply don't use the feature..

It's a novelty idea at best, when I remove keycaps the switches come out with them...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Kevadu]

Fact of the matter is..

People simply don't use the feature..

Speak for yourself.  I've swapped the switches out in my K-type at least a dozen times.  But then I bought the thing with that intent, kind of using it as an oversized switch tester.  For me at least I can't really tell if I like a switch or not until I've actually typed on it, but I don't want to build a whole board and solder in switches that I end up not liking.

[killyou]

Fact of the matter is..

People simply don't use the feature..

It's a novelty idea at best, when I remove keycaps the switches come out with them...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Works great with plate mounted switches. I wouldn't do that on PCB mounted ones,  in facts I wouldn't like PCB mounted anyway.

[Tom_Kazansky]

Fact of the matter is..

People simply don't use the feature..

It's a novelty idea at best, when I remove keycaps the switches come out with them...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I think you're doing something wrong.
From what I know, there are 2 things required to properly experience the hot swap stuff:
- plate with 1.5mm thickness, that way the switches can clip properly on the plate and thus, more stable
- decent keycaps, I mean keycap with good stem, not too tight

Works great with plate mounted switches. I wouldn't do that on PCB mounted ones,  in facts I wouldn't like PCB mounted anyway.

agree! PCB mount switches are too hard too install/remove on hot swap board.