Damn you click clack key sellers.

[fossala]

I am sick of people buying up all the click clack keys to sell at 5x the original price. What ever happened to a community helping each other rather than exploiting? I mustn't be the only one that feels this way. I am not saying it shouldn't be aloud, I'm just saying it is poor practice.

[reaper]

Meh, I've seen so many of these that I'm becoming used to it (the same goes for people selling leftovers from group buys at higher prices).  They can do whatever they want for all I care. lol  The reason I bought those ClickClack keys is because I wanna keep 'em!  I'm not selling come hail or high water!  =D  Although I did sell one at cost to a "friend" since he couldn't get any and he ended up selling it.  If I had known that he was gonna sell it then I would've just kept the damn thing. lol

[RiGS]

rip, it is just a tricky way to express they are not for sale.
We are talking about real profiteers, with lame excuses, who has no problems with selling other members contribution to maximize profit, and consider it an intelligent thing.
I already expressed my concerns about it, but my posts have been censored.

[RiGS]

FWIW it exploits the community aspect of geekhack.

[RiGS]

Yeah and see how it led America to the brink of economical collapse.

[Quarzac]

I have nothing against profiteering depending on the situation of the buyer. I have done some profiteering myself, having flipped a couple keyboards off the classifieds here and run a group buy I made a small profit off of. I'm a high school kid who is currently not looking to get a job due to a rigorous load, college applications, and familial concerns. That being said, I will work to make some money if I see an opportunity. I view cheap boards or low run keys as an investment, and I fully expect them to at the very least cover themselves. While some of you guys seem like very nice chaps, and I will probably be more than willing to work with you on pricing, I'm by no means looking to take a good deal on something that there is a very low supply of and forward that deal to someone else, unless I really like them.

All that being said, I will definitely be looking for a job come the end of January as my first semester winds down and I have time to do so. That doesn't necessarily mean I will stop buying and selling keyboards entirely, but if I have a steady source of income otherwise, I'm going to be far less inclined to make a profit off keyboards. Depending on how things go, I'll probably pull a bongoojingie and donate a portion of proceeds to GH.

tl;dr: If you don't have a steady income, I'm not gonna frown on profiteering. If you do, then I can't find as much of a reason to justify it without at least giving something back to the community. And I need a job.

P.S. I had an opportunity to buy a vader key. I passed on it, since I couldn't bring myself to spend $50 on one key, even though I knew I would make my money back. I hope whoever got it was a chap who wanted it for their board, not to sell it.

[fossala]

I am a socialist, I have a problem with greed. I think we should help each other, not exploit someone so you can have an extra $50 in your account.
People like Quarzac that is just making a little money while providing a service is one thing, buying as many keys as you can to then sell them at 5x the price IS NOT.

[RiGS]

I think we should help each other, not exploit someone so you can have an extra $50 in your account.
People like Quarzac that is just making a little money while providing a service is one thing, buying as many keys as you can to then sell them at 5x the price IS NOT.

I couldn't agree more.

[fossala]

Ripster, you're not cleaver. Your a ****ing prick with too much time on his hands.

[RiGS]

I agree with the first two points, however I would never worship satanic symbols like that Pyramid and Eye.
Also clickclack nicely limits the amount of keycaps/person he sells.

[fossala]

I agree with the first two points, however I would never worship satanic symbols like that Pyramid and Eye.
Also clickclack nicely limits the amount of keycaps/person he sells.

I am not moaning at click clack for making the keys, he does a good job. I am moaning at because people think that exploiting other people is fine.

[RiGS]

I know. Also he sells it a lot cheaper than he could, still making a decent profit.
He found a nice balance.

[Namkung]

I don't like people gaining at the expense of others =*( .
(So in this case, people buying keycaps with the fullest intention on reselling them for profit at the expense of those who truly want them)
I guess that's capitalism +_+ but I don't like it!

[RiGS]

No. That's greed.

[fossala]

What I don't get is people say that they love capitalism but when companies really are capitalist and grow as big as possible people cry anti-trust.

[noodles256]

haha, yea. Some just buy with the intent of selling. to funnny

[keyboardlover]

What I don't get is people say that they love capitalism but when companies really are capitalist and grow as big as possible people cry anti-trust.

That's simple. It's OK to play a game as long as you play by the rules.

What's wrong with profits again?

+1

A wise man once said "If you snooze, you lose".

If you missed out on getting a ClickClack key, you have no one to blame but yourself. And if you disagree with the prices they're going for - don't buy them!

Everyone should be responsible for themselves. If someone fails, then they fail. Everyone has the capacity to learn from their mistakes and become better. This is the idea behind America, and the reason why, despite our current economic state, we truly have the backbone to create sustainable growth in the future (if we can get back to our true fundamentals).

In Europe the belief is that the government should be responsible for everybody. If someone fails, the government takes the brunt of the failure. If the people fail, the government fails. For more information, see Ireland, Iceland, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, The European Union, The Euro, etc. etc.

\rant

[fossala]

That's simple. It's OK to play a game as long as you play by the rules.

I don't like the "game" but I am forced to "play" it to make other peoples numbers on bank slips bigger.

EDIT: and I think it is poor to call it a game when it leaves people starving without shelter or warmth.

[o2dazone]

I don't buy ClickClack keys with the intent of reselling them. But it is a nice sidenote that they make great trading pieces when you're on the hunt for rarer keycap sets. I would probably never sell my clickClacks and I'm mostly with the OP on that front. But I don't think it's wrong to trade. Even if you buy CC keys with the intent on trading.

[Namkung]

The idea behind America is that people should be gaining through exploiting others?
Also let me ask, what is your stance on welfare programs?

[hcry4]

A wise man once said "If you snooze, you lose".

For ClickClack keys, "You blink, you lose."

[fossala]

The idea behind America is that people should be gaining through exploiting others?
Also let me ask, what is your stance on welfare programs?

Me?

I think that they are needed and that if we had better things in place we could start to address social immobility (not that people in power would want a contest). I think the fact 1st world countries like USA that don't have state healthcare is ridiculous. Should I have to double check if I can afford to go to hospital if I broke my leg?

I am a quite successful chef so money isn't bad but I have been unemployed at certain points in my life and am thankful for benefits that help keep my family fed. I am happy to pay taxes as it helps people who are less fortunate than me.

[Namkung]

Me?

I think that they are needed and that if we had better things in place we could start to address social immobility (not that people in power would want a contest). I think the fact 1st world countries like USA that don't have state healthcare is ridiculous. Should I have to double check if I can afford to go to hospital if I broke my leg?

I am a quite successful chef so money isn't bad but I have been unemployed at certain points in my life and am thankful for benefits that help keep my family fed. I am happy to pay taxes as it helps people who are less fortunate than me.

No. I was talking to keyboardlover because it seems to me he believes an individual has no one to blame but oneself if they fail at something.
As in the clackfactory keycaps, Yes. If you missed the sale, then you obviously have no one else to blame. But expanding on that point as he does, I think the logic is flawed to say the least.
Perhaps relevant :
http://cdn.front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Warren-LARGE.jpg

I just cannot imagine someone that looks at what we are talking about here and thinks there is nothing wrong in the slightest with that.
If you are buying a certain rare commodity that has a large demand, you should not be in it to then only resell it at a higher price and thereby depriving of others that truly wanted that good.
It is ethically wrong

[Hazborgufen]

Interesting that people are complaining about greed and talking about socialism in a thread about aftermarket keycaps. The horrible injustice of keycap pricing. The keycap speculators are bringing down the keycap economy. Maybe the high prices on keycaps indicate a keycap bubble. I wonder if I can short sell keycap futures...

Seriously, I'm totally in support of providing aid for food, shelter, medical care, and other necessities. But to bring up socialism and complaining about greed and capitalism in a thread about keycaps, well, I guess it must be good to have such first world problems.

[fossala]

As in the clackfactory keycaps, Yes. If you missed the sale, then you obviously have no one else to blame.

Them going fast is not what is pissing me off, I could of got some click clack keys in the past but I didn't want them (the only ones I like are candy corn). What I am not happy with is the fact they are all just bought up in 20mins just to resell.

[JimBobMorris]

I am not moaning at click clack for making the keys, he does a good job. I am moaning at because people think that exploiting other people is fine.

You have one skewed definition of what exploiting someone is. I fail to see how selling a luxury item that is not NECESSARY (they are quite awesome, but not necessary in even the slightest sense) for a price they are willing to pay is exploiting someone.
If they don't want to pay a certain amount they don't have to buy the item and no conditions are forcing them to.

It seems that you are whining on behalf of the people who are being "exploited", the same people who don't mind paying whatever the cost may be.

[fossala]

Interesting that people are complaining about greed and talking about socialism in a thread about aftermarket keycaps. The horrible injustice of keycap pricing. The keycap speculators are bringing down the keycap economy. Maybe the high prices on keycaps indicate a keycap bubble. I wonder if I can short sell keycap futures...

Seriously, I'm totally in support of providing aid for food, shelter, medical care, and other necessities. But to bring up socialism and complaining about greed and capitalism in a thread about keycaps, well, I guess it must be good to have such first world problems.

I donate a lot to charities. I don't feel bad about having something nice for myself. There is a difference between socialism and communism.

[fossala]

You have one skewed definition of what exploiting someone is. I fail to see how selling a luxury item that is not NECESSARY (they are quite awesome, but not necessary in even the slightest sense) for a price they are willing to pay is exploiting someone.
If they don't want to pay a certain amount they don't have to buy the item and no conditions are forcing them to.

It seems that you are whining on behalf of the people who are being "exploited", the same people who don't mind paying whatever the cost may be.

I think that you are right, but I don't think it is good what people are doing. Perhaps exploited was the wrong word for me to use.

[whiskerBox]

I guess I can see both sides of the issue. On one part I say yes this wrong and people shouldn't flip CC's keys, but on the other hand what if you decided to switch to a different switch and wanted to get rid of all of one kind then what?

Me personally I like to think of them as very expensive POG's, Meaning that I would really only be interested in trading for other POG's.

[Namkung]

Seriously, I'm totally in support of providing aid for food, shelter, medical care, and other necessities. But to bring up socialism and complaining about greed and capitalism in a thread about keycaps, well, I guess it must be good to have such first world problems.

The principles are what matters.

[keyboardlover]

The idea behind America is that people should be gaining through exploiting others?
Also let me ask, what is your stance on welfare programs?

Define "exploitation". Even at a base level, in any trade, one person nearly always has the upper hand. That's life.

As for welfare, it depends. Education and opportunities are the key to reducing poverty. Much more effective than simply taking money from someone who has it and giving it to someone who doesn't.

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day...teach a man to fish, and he will never be hungry."

[Namkung]

I guess I can see both sides of the issue. On one part I say yes this wrong and people shouldn't flip CC's keys, but on the other hand what if you decided to switch to a different switch and wanted to get rid of all of one kind then what?

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. There is a big difference in what is being discussed here and what you have just mentioned.
As in your scenario, the person did NOT buy the keycaps with the intention of selling them for a profit.
I see nothing wrong with the keycaps being sold for a higher price, a price that many are willing to pay in so far as that was not your reasoning behind purchasing the keycaps.
Obviously, this is like a moral issue more than anything and in that sense, you won't really be able to prohibit people from doing that.

[Hazborgufen]

I donate a lot to charities. I don't feel bad about having something nice for myself. There is a difference between socialism and communism.

I understand that. But again, this is a luxury item. Perhaps they should be sold for more to begin with.

[Hazborgufen]

The principles are what matters.

Again, this is a luxury item, not a necessity. If anything the fact that people can profit by speculating on keycap prices indicates that they could probably be sold for a higher cost initially. This would yield more money for the person creating the keys and would cut down on speculation.

[noodles256]

nah, i hate paying taxes to help these lazy  people. If they worked and tried to get jobs,money, etc I wouldn't mind. But they just sit on their butts complaining

[fossala]

nah, i hate paying taxes to help these lazy  people. If they worked and tried to get jobs,money, etc I wouldn't mind. But they just sit on their butts complaining

Are you joking or just ignorant?

[Namkung]

Define "exploitation". Even at a base level, in any trade, one person nearly always has the upper hand. That's life.

As for welfare, it depends. Education and opportunities are the key to reducing poverty. Much more effective than simply taking money from someone who has it and giving it to someone who doesn't.

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day...teach a man to fish, and he will never be hungry."

I agree with you.
In fact, I am sure no one will logically argue that simply giving money to those in destitute conditions would be ideal.
And you are right about trade as well. And I also happen to agree that "that's life".
But this is no trade. You are buying a good in a zero sum game to take advantage of others and I think there is something morally wrong with that.

[insilica]

Blame the person making them... no seriously ...

TBH, I lost interest a while back mate ... I suggest you do the same.

If people want to sell a limb for a bit of plastic ... meh ...

EASY FIX:

setup an order thread
reject orders from really new accounts
setup waiting list
avoid noobs trying to profit from a piece of plastic

simple!

[hcry4]

nah, i hate paying taxes to help these lazy people. If they worked and tried to get jobs,money, etc I wouldn't mind. But they just sit on their butts complaining

That's quite a sweeping statement. Also, some places are not hiring people who are unemployed and give preference to those who already have jobs.

[RiGS]

ClickClack should increase his price, or mass produce the keys to close the opportunity of making huge profits by reselling his keys. Either way it would be beneficial to the community.
Selling ultra limited keys cheaply, that is just provocation.
There are too many rats, but not enough cheese.

[Namkung]

Again, this is a luxury item, not a necessity. If anything the fact that people can profit by speculating on keycap prices indicates that they could probably be sold for a higher cost initially. This would yield more money for the person creating the keys and would cut down on speculation.

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
To address your point, yes they could probably be sold at a higher price to begin with.. much higher.
If they were also sold at a higher price to begin with, then the problem of reselling it at an even higher price may also be solved.
But this isn't what the discussion is about. It's about whether or not the act of buying these keycaps only to sell it at a higher price is right/wrong.

[keyboardlover]

Click clack keys are a boutique product. They are what they are.

Mass production would ruin them, for sure.

[keyboardlover]

But this is no trade. You are buying a good in a zero sum game to take advantage of others and I think there is something morally wrong with that.

The problem is that you guys are all concerned about these people buying keys. But you're not taking responsibility for the fact that YOU missed out on them and it's your choice whether to buy them second-hand or not!

It is not your "right" to have a key at the price that YOU want.

[fossala]

The problem is that you guys are all concerned about these people buying keys. But you're not taking responsibility for the fact that YOU missed out on them and it's your choice whether to buy them second-hand or not!

It is not your "right" to have a key at the price that YOU want.

I am. I don't care that I "missed" them. I care about people buying to sell. It is hard to have a conversation with you when you try and change it into another one. It's what politicians do, don't answer the question just raise a new one then ask you to answer it.

[fossala]

Click clack keys are a boutique product. They are what they are.

Mass production would ruin them, for sure.

Why? Are they only good because you have them and other people don't?

[RiGS]

That's childish.

[Namkung]

The problem is that you guys are all concerned about these people buying keys. But you're not taking responsibility for the fact that YOU missed out on them and it's your choice whether to buy them second-hand or not!

It is not your "right" to have a key at the price that YOU want.

Not sure when I said it is my right to buy the keys at the price I want.
Do you seriously think there is NOTHING wrong with people buying these keycaps to resell them for profit?

Here is something that in my opinion is the most relevant to this case and I will leave this dicussion off at this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticket_resale#Legal_responses

It is ILLEGAL. Admittedly though, it is still ubiquitous and will never fully disappear.

[hcry4]

Why? Are they only good because you have them and other people don't?

It's true for a lot of rare, expensive items. Since, more people are getting these keys, I've stopped trying to get them. Also, if everybody had the keys, there'd be nothing special about them and we probably wouldn't have this thread.

[Hazborgufen]

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
To address your point, yes they could probably be sold at a higher price to begin with.. much higher.
If they were also sold at a higher price to begin with, then the problem of reselling it at an even higher price may also be solved.
But this isn't what the discussion is about. It's about whether or not the act of buying these keycaps only to sell it at a higher price is right/wrong.

It has everything to do with what is being discussed, actually. As this is a luxury item, prices should reflect that. The fact that people are profiting in this form of speculation shows that the initial price is too low. The manufacturer can benefit from this knowledge and increase the initial price, which will result in a higher profit for them and decreased speculation, since there would be more risk.

Anyway, I guess what I’m saying is that there is no problem with reselling these keys. If the manufacturer was really concerned about this they could either raise prices or put a cap on the amount of keycaps sold to one person at a time.

[keyboardlover]

Why? Are they only good because you have them and other people don't?

No, because they are special. They're freaking hand-made!

I am. I don't care that I "missed" them. I care about people buying to sell. It is hard to have a conversation with you when you try and change it into another one. It's what politicians do, don't answer the question just raise a new one then ask you to answer it.

My point is that, your "issue" is a non-issue. The only issue, is with you.