geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Bratman on Sun, 02 June 2013, 08:55:02
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For people who have used both extensively.
Reds are the most popular switch, I see them recommended everywhere. I've seen keyboard gurus praise them as the best key, and a lot of times I've heard people who have tried all switches say red are the best. By far.
They beat out the blues by 13%.
This is strictly red vs brown, they are almost the same switch except one is linear and one is tactile.
Which one do you prefer and why, please post your thoughts on the differences between the two including any minute details.
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Brown feels like broken red... this is to people who've used red.. it feels like a grit of sand got stuck in the red slider.
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My first mechanical kb had red switches, now I'm using one with browns, though I also tried blacks, blues and clears. I cannot state surely that one switch is better than the other, I really like both types. Reds seem to be slightly more convenient for intensive gaming, browns - for typing (due to their tactility) but in the end they are both very fine switches. The choice really is a matter of personal preference and perception. Some people perceive reds as quieter switches than browns, to me it's vice versa though both are nowhere near blues (which still have their loyal fans). If you add into the equation o-rings, which considerably affect the way a switch feels and sounds, the number of possible variations (and choices) becomes even greater. Bottom line: if you're typing more than gaming and appreciate tactile feedback, try browns, otherwise reds shouldn't disappoint you.
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I have a switch sampler kit, and personally, I don't care for the brown. It feels quite a bit like a rubber dome switch to me, in the way they behave. I guess they'd be ok if gaming is not your priority. But even then, there's something satisfying about blues when it comes to that crisp sound/feel when you're typing. They are a lot quieter than blues though, so they have that going for them.
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reds are a perfectly smooth, light switch. i didn't care for them in typing, but they feel fantastic for gaming.
reds can be defined more by what they lack than what they have. no click, no tactile bump, very little resistance. to me, they don't feel like much of anything. brown are already pretty subtle, but they have that little bit of tactility that gives me a feeling that my fingers are interacting nicely with the switch.
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I hate reds. They feel weak and floppy. I like MX black much better as it actually feels like a key. I also like MX brown. I don't feel the "scratchyness, sandpaper, etc" that other people feel. I just feel a smooth bump. It gives a little more feeling to the keys which I like. I also like how the activation and reset points are the same, unlike with blue, where you can have the switch activate without the click and tactile feel. What I don't like is that the activation point for the browns is slightly passed the bump. It should be midway on the bump. This results in some presses where you feel the bump, but don't press it far enough for the keypress to register, making the tactile element unreliable. I'd rather just go with linears since bottoming out is 100% reliable unlike trying to use the tactility of brown and blue to correlate to keypresses.
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Reds are too light for me. I made a lot of mistakes when typing hitting the wrong key. Although I do enjoy them for playing fps games.
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reds are much better than brown, if you're into cherry mx.
brown's tactile point is way too soft IMO
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reds are much better than brown, if you're into cherry mx.
brown's tactile point is way too soft IMO
I'm into cherry mx and I think brown is much better than red.
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I'd say I like both red and brown equally. But as people have stated, red is better for gaming and brown is better for typing.
Though I wouldn't say red is more popular. I think brown is probably still the most popular switch because people are more familiar typing with tactility.
So when in doubt, buy mx brown. If you can afford it, try both.
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I hate browns, and yet I sell them by the thousands...
Reds and Buckling Springs are my favorite switches.
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I do like both and have a lot of drive time with each. For me, Browns are a compromise: less resistant than a Clear, but with a very weak tactile feel. Reds are a much improved Black.
If I were gaming, both are equally acceptable: I have yet to burn out or strain using Reds or Browns for long periods of time. But if smoothness is most desired (and if you're bottoming out anyway), the linear Red is the way to go. Sometimes Browns just feel like a linear switch gone stuck.
As an aside, if you like tactile feel, try Clears if you can. They are pleasantly tactile but are more resistant.
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I'd like to mention reds ARENT perfectly smooth as they are cherry mx and there's not one cherry mx switch that is perfectly smooth. Although I hear you can get really close with lube.
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I'd like to mention reds ARENT perfectly smooth as they are cherry mx and there's not one cherry mx switch that is perfectly smooth. Although I hear you can get really close with lube.
Vintage blacks can be perfectly smooth.
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Out of the ones i had (Reds, blacks, browns and blues) I prefer the browns. I really want to try clears but havent gotten the chance yet.
Reds feel a bit flimsy for me, blacks are too tough and blues are too loud. Browns are a decent compromise in my opinion.
Topres are my favourite though, I even use them for gaming.
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Brown feels like broken red... this is to people who've used red.. it feels like a grit of sand got stuck in the red slider.
I do not think that is true for just everyone. Though that could be how some people feel.
When I started to get into mechanical keyboards I had a Steelseries with blacks that I found too "heavy" to use. I switched to reds, but the problem for me was that even after using it for over a year, accidental keypresses remained an issue. Don't get me wrong, the reds felt really good when touch typing, but the accidental keypresses kept being a nuisance to me ( and I am a decent 70 WPM + with almost no mistakes typist). The problem was not only that I hit the wrong keys, but also that sometimes I wanted to type "this" and instead I would type "htis". That is, keys registered before I intended them to.
So I decided to try out browns. Even though they have the same actuation force, some people on overclock.net (was not on geekhack at the time) mentioned that their tactile feedback might remedy the problem. One thing I really liked about them, is that they still felt nice and light like the reds. But there was also the added benefit of a slight tactile feel. There were two advantages for me. One, I like the tactile feedback of the browns. It is subtle enough to never bother me, but pronounced enough to give your hands that satisfying click and feedback that a keypress was registered. The other advantage was that I no longer had any problem with accidental keypresses. I think the tactile feedback assisted the muscle memory. With the reds, I would accidentally hit and register a key before I knew it. With the browns, I do not press a key past that "tactile bump" unless I intend to. But I do not think it is a case of one being better than the other. Instead it is more about which of the two suits you best. I have used both browns and reds for such a long time that I can say that beyond a doubt, I prefer the browns ( I even sold the board with reds) , even though I could certainly also live with reds, and can even understand that someone with different typing habits may prefer that to the browns.
When it comes to gaming, I also do not think there is one best gaming switch. For FPS, reds were nice, since they feel nice and light and responsive. Controlling movement with the WASD cluster is most natural with a linear switch (even though using browns never bothered me in this regard). However, when playing RTS (Starcraft 2) I had the same problem with accidental keypresses as I had when typing, which is why generally for me, the browns are the ones I prefer for gaming as well. Though I also think there is little to be gained from a keyboard in gaming. You see those Korean SC2 pros using rubber domes and it does not seem to bother them. And in other games (like FPS) the keyboard is not the most important peripheral, and its use is generally so basic that it wont make a huge difference. So you should go by what feels best, as opposed to what you think will give you some kind of theoretical advantage.
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I've tried reds and browns and I prefer the browns. While the reds are nice to type I like the tactile feedback the browns provide. I have "heavy fingers" so I found myself accidentally hitting keys that I didn't want. I probably could have adjusted but just enjoyed typing on the browns more. I also preferred the browns for gaming also.
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Gotta say I prefer reds. Browns are light but the tactile bump isn't smooth enough for me. Blues are the best though :D
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Reds are the most popular switch, I see them recommended everywhere.
did you see that on r/mech? lord..
i would go with browns but it really just comes down to personal preference. Browns are a good starter switch imo becuase it's quite a light switch, and really lets you know if you like tactile switches. I thought reds were the worst switch...too light and tactile...they are not just for me. personally i don't know if i would even call them mechanical..
and i also hate the idea that black and reds are 'best' for gaming. that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard about cherry switches. i don't know why that started but just because some people prefer those switches for gaming doesn't mean they are designed for gaming or anything like that. i really, really have come to hate anything advertised or associated with gaming. It's beyond stupid and extremely aggravating.
Browns are really a good starter switch. i would pity anyone who used mx reds for their first switch...it's barely mechanical
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reds and blacks are good for fps and such. tactile is better for rts and moba imo
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Reds vs browns is 100% personal preference. Don't believe anyone that says one must be better than the other. I can say reds are the best because they're light and smooth. On the contrary, they're also the worst switch because they're boring, with no feel of "mechanical" to them. It's all play on words. When it comes down to it, you need to just try the switches in question, and decide for yourself what your preferences are.
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Browns are really a good starter switch. i would pity anyone who used mx reds for their first switch...it's barely mechanical
Quick question, What is the definition of "mechanical"? Is it that is has a large tactile bump? because then just about any rubber dome is "mechanical". If it's because it makes a clicky sound, then browns and clears is no more mechanical than reds. If it's because it has a more even key travel instead of bottoming out right after pressing the key (like RB), then linear switches is more mechanical!
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I really tried to like browns but I feel as if the bump isn't big enough, I do use reds a bunch.
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I like browns a lot more. This tactile bump is exactly what I need on my keyboard. It makes the switches special somehow. Linear ones are boring. For myself, I figured out that blues are too clicky (too hard tactile resistance), and linear ones (black/red) are too boring, so browns are - in every way (stiffness, clickyness, tactile feeling) a good middle way.
I also like the tactile white ALPS a lot for pretty much the same reason, although they feel very different from browns. It's still the same category of switch for me (middle-heavy, tactile but not too clicky)
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I hated reds compared to blues and browns...
Then I suffered a wrist injury now I can only use reds and to a lesser extent browns without pain (very mild when using blues but it's annoying). It depends on a lot of variables as said it's a very individual choice.
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I hated reds compared to blues and browns...
Then I suffered a wrist injury now I can only use reds and to a lesser extent browns without pain (very mild when using blues but it's annoying). It depends on a lot of variables as said it's a very individual choice.
..so get out there an use dark grey, green, and black switches while you still can!
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I have just received my KeyCool with MX reds - so far I am liking them, although making a few more typos than with the MX blacks or blues.
Haven't tried browns yet, but I do have the WASD SAmpler Kit that contains a brown switch, and it does feel like a gritty red. Not sure if I want a keyboard with MX browns.
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I agree that people new to mechanical keyboards shouldn't get red as their first. It can be a boring switch if you can't appreciate it for what it is.
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I agree that people new to mechanical keyboards shouldn't get red as their first. It can be a boring switch if you can't appreciate it for what it is.
A medical device.
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lubed reds are a great "gamer" switch, meaning they are good for any use of the keyboard that doesn't require a lot of typing. i love blues and whites but reds are much better for gaming.
browns are great too, especially lubed browns, not sure what you guys are talking about but looking at the posts here is OBVIOUS different preferences for different people. there shouldn't really be any switch wars because not everyone is the same.
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I've been wondering the same thing in my quest for my first mechanical keyboard.
Personal preference is definitely a factor it seems, but it is really hard to be able to know which is best unless I drop like 200-500 bucks on different keyboards (and paying for shipping and stuff like that...yikes...).
People have been saying browns as a starter board...might do that...but I found a ducky keyboard (108) at a cheaper total price than lets say a Leopold (112) in MX reds. So that becomes a factor.
Damn retailers not having anything more substantial than a blackwidow ultimate with blues for mechanical keyboards that I can try out!
Maybe I should buy a Leopold w/ browns, return it, then buy a Leopold with red might be the choice I have to make...
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I think the best is to try at least two different types of switch before you decide.
I found red felt cheap to me but I was used to blues from years ago. I settled on browns but didn't try blacks or blues (again) before buying.
I imagine I would appreciate reds in certain gaming situations now because as posted above, one you understand the switch differences more as a result of experience then you appreciate what each switch is doing for you versus your initial impressions on trying something new.
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Wow, this thread brings back memories.
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Reds feel smooth as butter. (sort of)
There is a bit of scratchyness to them which is really only noticeable if you press the keys relatively slowly. Otherwise, the scratchyness shouldn't be noticeable and will be greatly reduced after a good break-in.
Browns feel very gritty out of the box. I don't own a brown keyboard so that's all I can say. However, just like the reds, once the browns break in, they will get smoother.
Personally, I do not care for silent tactile keyboards that much.
If I want the tactility, I go for the satisfying blues or my buckling springs.
Reds on the other hand are very "relaxed" and smooth. Reds are necessarily for "MLG Pro Gamer Gottagofastspeedracers" they are also for when you just want to have a smooth and relaxing experience.
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This thread makes me laugh.
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Definitely it all depends on preference. I for one absolutely adore both reds and browns. I stick with browns however in all my keyboards. Once your at the 100+ WPM, the light switches definitely feel really good under ur fingers. So I'd go with either.
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Neither, MX Clears.
j/k use what you like.
Of the two, though, definitely browns. I'm not a fan of linear switches.
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Reds vs Browns is like politics. No matter what you choose, it's between two god awful choices.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/92/925277e6b151350f3612cae9c182b8434c6d66e4ae3f611ada6002dab87c9fa9.jpg)
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cannot stand linear keys so browns for me. overall they are my second favorite, second to mx clears.
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For people who have used both extensively.
Reds are the most popular switch, I see them recommended everywhere. I've seen keyboard gurus praise them as the best key, and a lot of times I've heard people who have tried all switches say red are the best. By far.
They beat out the blues by 13%.
This is strictly red vs brown, they are almost the same switch except one is linear and one is tactile.
Which one do you prefer and why, please post your thoughts on the differences between the two including any minute details.
I've used Reds for the past two years, prior to that I was a heavy brown/black/blue user, and here's my prognosis.
Reds (advantages/disadvantages):
- Feel amazing
- Great for typing/gaming
- Linear (**** tactile switches)
- Also bad for typing, e.g. you tend to make a lot more typing mistakes even if you're used to that board or typos are just easier to make
- The switch is far too light for certain people
Browns (advantages/disadvantages):
- A good middle-ground for Blue users who want a gaming switch but don't want to compromise the 'click' (tactile feedback)
- Don't feel as light as Reds even though they are
- They have tactile feedback
- Less typos errors because of the tactile feedback
- Feel gritty to long time Red users
- Too light for certain users
- Not comfortable for certain users (e.g. long time red users)
One of the main issues that I have with Reds and my board at the moment is the fact that although I've been using this keyboard for the past 2 years on and off, I still make a fair amount of typing mistakes sometimes and that can be a little bit annoying, especially if you're in the midst of an important task, maybe replying to important emails, coding and what not, if you're a fast/touch typer mistakes really slow you down and it does become a major annoyance.
But I have tried switching away from Reds and I am a firm believer that once you use Reds for a prolonged period of time, you just will not want to go back to another switch, maybe that is different for other people, but that's just how it is for me.
As for Browns, I tried to use Browns but they just felt horrible and unusable to me, that much so that I even bought a Keycool 84 and only used for a month on and off, I just couldn't get used to the gritty feeling of MX Browns.