Steer Clear of Aliexpress Unless You Want to Get Screwed By Aliexpress itself.

[dantan]

I have bought stuff from Aliexpress a bunch of times.

Their stuff is cheap, but quality is always meh.

A bunch of my purchases were dissatisfactory, but I never bothered to complain. It’s not worth the emotional energy for $5 something or $9 something.

Recently I bought the most expensive thing ever from Aliexpress. Cost $200.

It arrived nonresponsive. Not working.

I spoke to the seller and submitted a video. He agreed it was broken and suggested a factory return.

I didn’t really feel comfortable with his arguments, but they were plausible. Instead of doing a proper refund to credit card like any normal seller, he wanted to pay me via paypal to ship back to him, then submit a message to Aliexpress saying I wanted a goods return for ‘personal purposes’, and after that to leave positive feedback, and then he would submit the item to the factory and get a refund for me.

It was kinda iffy but since seller was willing to pay paypal fees, I agreed.

But when his payment came, I saw his name had Xuan-something in it. That gave me bad vibes.

Six years ago I was cheated by a Hong Kong ebay seller called Xuan something. That guy sent me something broken. I asked for refund, he blamed it on factory and asked me to return him. So I did, except after that he gave endless excuses. Couldn’t track, then goods lost, then ok misshipped to an address not his usual address, then ok I have it but must send to factory first. That guy held off and delayed until it was too late, then ignored me.

So I am uncomfortable with trusting a Chinese seller called Xuan who blames a broken item on factory and wants a non-standard way of refund. I refunded the seller immediately on Paypal. Damn paypal charged me money to refund him!

Seller refused to do even partial refund without a return. I didn’t want to return and wait eternally for him to liase with his ‘plant’, especially since credit card gives me only 2 months to file. This led to a formal dispute, Aliexpress decided in my favor and refunded me partially as requested. But it took weeks to resolve. Since this was my first ever complaint on Aliexpress, I had several talks with their chat people.

Then the week after that case was closed, a seller sent me broken keycaps.

This is not the first time I get crap from Aliexpress. The last mouse I bought from them literally fell apart within 2 days. Freaking bottom just dropped out, and I didn’t complain. Just stuck the bottom back. But coming on top of a bitter dispute this time, I wasn’t going to let it go.

Then in the midst of quarreling with the seller I discovered he had sold me ABS keycaps labelled as PBT, but then amended his original ad to ABS. Since Aliexpress system registered my purchase as PBT keycaps, I had a strong case. Seller gave full refund immediately. All the same it left a bad taste in my mouth.

This is the first time I have a seller listing ABS as PBT. Never had that problem with Taobao.

In the meantime, I was talking to yet another seller who misunderstood me. This guy thought I was going to file complaint. But what I told him was this: Hello, I'm a happy buyer, but I can't see how to leave positive feedback for you.

I later made a few negative comments to this seller about the stupidity of Aliexpress’ translation system.
you misunderstand, I already received and am happy.
I want to leave positive feedback but they don't let me.
Alibaba's system is very stupid.

I’d received the item a month ago, but cannot leave positive feedback since Aliexpress’ system has not registered it as delivered. WTF, if I the buyer say that something was delivered, why the F do you insist it was not delivered? Buyer is always right when buyer is praising the seller!

The seller who made me a happy buyer sold me Carprie Motherlander 22 Key Blue Axis... numpad. Someone on geekhack recommended it to me as a cheap numpad, and I like it very much. Unfortunately, since my Aliexpress account is now suspended I can’t even give you guys a link.

Then recently I got a message from gameboy on Geekhack. Gameboy is a new account holder and a  shop owner (hcman) on aliexpress who wanted someone to review his stuff. I agreed to buy his stuff, after which he would refund me on paypal and I would post the review after receiving the kb.

Our conversations were very cordial.

This morning I got an automated message saying hcman had shipped.

Couple hours ago I suddenly got an automated message from Aliexpress:

We have noticed irregular activities being carried out by your account which violate the AliExpress Buyer Protection Program rules.
Accordingly, we regret to inform you that we have terminated your account. You will still be able to access your account and ongoing order will stay remain, however the buying, dispute, feedback privileges has been taken out.  
To learn more about our buyer rules, please click here .http://activities.aliexpress.com/adcms/help-aliexpress-com/rules_about_abusing_bp.php If you have any concerns or questions, please visit our help center here.https://www.aliexpress.com/help/newContactUs.htm     

The buyer rules link above tell me nothing about why my account was suspended.

1) I’d only opened one formal buyer protection case dispute in my entire aliexpress account life, so it is not excessive opening of cases.
2) I threatened to open a case against another seller, but it is not unwarranted. Even someone who can’t read English should be able to tell that an ad for ABS Keycaps is not the same as an order for PBT Keycaps in the system. It’s all in the headings, you don’t need to read 10000 words!
3) Aliexpress system claimed an item was not delivered. I was the one who said it was delivered. So it is not a case of claiming an item hasn’t been received when it has.

The help center link above does not lead to anything, since my account is now suspended.

Any other attempts to use alibaba.com, they say Your account is temporarily unavailable.
They also say If you have any questions, please contact our customer service team. But the link is disabled if your account is suspended. So in other words, alibaba can screw you over with no hope of redress.

I was furious, so I tried talking to aliexpress chat. I can’t use customer chat since my account is suspended. I had to use another chat for non customers. The people couldn’t do anything. They said there are no avenues to write a physical letter to aliexpress. There is no conduit for filing an appeal or talking to anyone. Everything is done automatically.

So I have permanently lost my aliexpress account with no hope of restoration.

One recent grouse I have with alibaba is that they have been sending me $32000 and $50000 spams for expensive precision machinery recently. I have never searched for any form of precision machinery on alibaba so I don’t know how they decided I want such things. But if I’d bought a $50000 machine, got screwed, filed a complaint, and then aliexpress decides to suspend my account for excessive complaints just because I’d filed another complaint about a $25 crap item the week before... you can see how their system can literally cheat you of money and redress.
 

OK, now to carry out my threat to praise Amazon publicly over Aliexpress. I told the Ali chat people that I was going to do it, and I will.

I have never had any problem purchase on Amazon.com before.

Amazon search function is superior. Language is superior. Product description is more professional. Review system is more professional and detailed and less subject to abuses.

They sell secondhand things, and even the secondhand things I have no dispute. I like the secondhand offerings especially, because often they are very competitively priced and have been handled by professional sellers who make professional descriptions. When they say a book has a few scribbles, it really is a few scribbles and not a hundred scribbles.

I don’t even know how to file a complaint on Amazon because I have never had problems. Never needed to use their return policy. Their shipping and handling is top notch. Their packaging is literally clumsy-postman proof. None of the cut-rate irresponsible packaging you get from aliexpress. Black trash bags are ok for clothes, not for keycaps!

Am I willing to pay more for Amazon purchases? YES.

I have been paying more to date, and I will continue to pay more for Amazon stuff.

Up yours, Jack Ma!

[zslane]

I have purchased quite a lot through Amazon for all the reasons you stated. I have never had a problem that they didn't solve quickly and professionally.

I have purchased a handful of things through Aliexpress, including a couple of keyboards in the $150 range. In one situation, they did not have what I ordered in stock and asked if I wanted a refund. I said yes and it took about a month, but I did get the refund. I guess I've been lucky so far, but I can definitely see how the language barrier, cultural differences, and preponderance of shady sellers can make the chances of a bad experience much, much higher.

Interestingly, I've heard it said many times that Amazon treats its customers like gold, but treats its employees like garbage. Amazon is the best place to buy online, but the worst place to work for.

[mBass]

I recently tried to make my first purchase through Aliexpress.  Is it normal for them to ask for a picture of your passport or might it be because of my wonky billing address?  Sending photos of my identification to some company in China just seems a bit sketch to me.

[dantan]

I have never had a problem that they didn't solve quickly and professionally.[/size]


Since I have never tested Amazon's system, I'll take your experience as a guide on how Amazon does business when there is a dispute.

The total value of goods, as well as number of disputes, I've had on Aliexpress is totally minimal. Even if you assume they use an automated system that mistook all 3 cases I mentioned above as disputes, that's three cases with a total value of $250. It's incredibly petty of them to treat this as 'excessive disputes' or 'abuse of system'. It essentially means they think there should be fewer disputes on their site - which is totally incredible given the number of iffy ads that you can see.

What good does Buyer Protection do, if when you use it, you have to worry that your next dispute will lead to account suspension?

Even if they reinstated my account tomorrow, I just don't have the confidence to buy a $1000 desktop from them anymore. I would buy a $2k desktop from Amazon without worry. I don't dare trust Aliexpress with the same, because if you complained about 2 parts they might take it as excessive disputes/ abuse of system and suspend all your complaints immediately leaving you with no redress.

I'm sure we all have way more unsatisfactory purchases on Aliexpress than on Amazon. But most people including me just aren't going to complain most of the time. You really want to create a hoo hah for $10? Or return to shipper for $20? Not complaining doesn't mean that the acceptable baseline for an Aliexpress account is less than 1 dispute per 6 months or whatever metric they use. I'm sure if Aliexpress had a US shipping address and good English help lines, they would get 10x as many product returns as they do now. People who buy from them every week, would probably complain once every month.

I just checked Amazon suspending buyer accounts, and it seems the internet consensus is anything below 10% returns on total purchases you are safe. I personally think that is stingy and petty.

I don't have a single return on my Amazon purchases, because I buy books or good stuff from there. If I buy electronics, they're all on warranty. No reason to expect even 5% dissatisfaction let alone 10%. If I buy books, they come from resellers and are professionally handled so i've always been happy.

Using an average guideline across all Amazon products to decide is very stupid. Most book buyers and most buyers of brand new branded electronics are never going to have a single complaint. But if i'm the type of guy who buys secondhand electronics on Amazon, you could easily hit a perfectly legit 15, 20% returns rate.

My dissatisfaction ratio on Craigs' List is like 20%, and these are transactions where I've had the opportunity to examine up front before buying.

[dantan]

I recently tried to make my first purchase through Aliexpress.  Is it normal for them to ask for a picture of your passport or might it be because of my wonky billing address?  Sending photos of my identification to some company in China just seems a bit sketch to me.

They didn't ask me for ID.

I guess I might be able to set up a new account under another credit card if I really wanted to. But just not keen anymore now that I know buyer protection is faux.

If I buy 10 things from Ali this month and have problems with 3 or 4 of them, I don't want account suspended for raising disputes.

The whole damn purpose of buying from Ali is the low price. And low or not, things have to WORK right out of the box and remain working for at least a couple weeks (Ali's complaint window).

If Ali hates having us complain, it is Ali's responsibility to kick out the sellers of $6 wireless mice (that was my mouse that fell apart). Force them to sell at $8 and give a guarantee, or $8 and at least ascertain that it won't fall apart in 2 weeks.

Selling things that people have no complaints about, is the best way not to have complaints.

The problem is that on Aliexpress, I can't choose to spend $12 on a mouse and feel secure that it is 2x as reliable as a $6 mouse. If I choose to spend $12 on a mouse, it will be because I was lazy and didn't search hard enough for a $6 mouse.

Without buyer protection, aliexpress is nothing. And what is buyer protection if not used?

[eksuen]

The suspension of Amazon accounts is to prevent people from abusing the generous return policy by "trialing" merchandise because they know they can just return it. There are people who do that, and as always, a few turds ruin it for the rest of us. But personally, I've never had any issues going through the return process with Amazon.

As for Aliexpress, out of the few times I've purchased from them, I have not had any issues. The free shipping is a bit slow, but hey, it's free.

[zslane]

As for Aliexpress, out of the few times I've purchased from them, I have not had any issues. The free shipping is a bit slow, but hey, it's free.

Yes, it is the literal slow boat from China that you get for the free shipping cost.

I don't usually mind waiting 2-3 weeks for such things, but the only reason such delivery times make me nervous is that it is harder to gauge when something has gone wrong. With something that is supposed to arrive in 3 days, you know very quickly if something is amiss, whereas you have to wait at least a month before a surface shipment from China can be declared as lost. A whole month of sitting around and wondering what is going on can be emotionally draining sometimes.

[eksuen]

As for Aliexpress, out of the few times I've purchased from them, I have not had any issues. The free shipping is a bit slow, but hey, it's free.

Yes, it is the literal slow boat from China that you get for the free shipping cost.

I don't usually mind waiting 2-3 weeks for such things, but the only reason such delivery times make me nervous is that it is harder to gauge when something has gone wrong. With something that is supposed to arrive in 3 days, you know very quickly if something is amiss, whereas you have to wait at least a month before a surface shipment from China can be declared as lost. A whole month of sitting around and wondering what is going on can be emotionally draining sometimes.

Maybe I'm just lucky. I've never had any problems with shady vendors or delivery issues in my area so I never have any reservations about going for slow shipping if it's free.

[leech]

Sorry to hear about all the trouble you ve been experiencing.

ive placed 7 AX orders since 09/2016 and they all went well. product quality was soso, but it would have been the same quality if i had bought the identical stuff from other source. usually i try to find my stuffz on Banggood, Gearbest, Fasttech, Dealextreme, and similar singular big sellers. BG and GB often have coupons and credit points, which reduces my total being charged. I pick AX when i cant find the stuff elsewhere, prices are similar to BG and GB, and i also try ebay. I would love to buy from Taobao, they have ridiculous prices, but .. haha no comment needed.

Amazon is still great for many things and aspects. I love amazon, BG, GB, FT, and appreciate the existence of ebay and AX.

Let's do a mkb groupbuy with an Alibaba order  )

[dantan]

Might be personality as well working into this mix.

If I buy clothes and am dissatisfied, I never complain.

But I know a girl who complains about practically every other item of apparel she gets online. She's done lots of returns, but so far has escaped getting account suspended.

I am the opposite. Zero clothing related official complaints, even though I have plenty of genuine grouses. But I tend to complain about cut rate electronic gadgets. Strangely enough I don't complain when there is an official warranty. I think the presence of official warranty makes me feel that I only need to complain when there is a full breakdown, because then I know I'll be saved. It's not like an Aliexpress purchase where if you don't complain within the official window you're screwed.

This reminds me, my Epson L360 printer has been leaking ink for a while by now and I have to do something about that. The official instructions have all failed. (EG clean print nozzle). I never thought of complaining about that printer but really should since I've followed instructions and still get dissatisfaction. You can take this as my review opinion: this printer sucks ass.

[dantan]

Just to add in response to a message I got:

Aliexpress uses black trash bags to ship their stuff.

Some sellers put padding inside, which is a good idea. It is cheap, but does the job. Some sellers even put padding in clothes, which is unnecessary and just increases costs.

A lot of sellers just trust in China Post. I don't think you can rely on the post for this, when a package could easily be squashed at the bottom of 200lbs of mailbag.

I got my $6 mouse in a trash bag with no padding. I don't think the bottom falling out after 2 days had anything to do with being squashed. It was just plain cheapo thin plastic tabs not fitting well. But if the mouse had been the bottom item in a 200lb mailbag, am pretty sure it would have arrived broken. The plastic was very thin.

Having seen Amazon and Aliexpress packing, I have no doubt which packing deserves that level of trust. If I buy 10 times from Amazon, claiming 2 items arrived broken in the mail deserves suspicion. Amazon is that good.

But my purchases from Aliexpress all come in black or gray trash bags and padding was used less than 1/3 of the time. About 1/3 of the time there was a box, which leaves up to 2/5 of the time something sent in a trash bag with totally no protection. Usually they don't even tape the trash bag, so item inside can move around easily.

Unprofessional packing sent internationally is just asking for trouble. Slamming down complaints by shutting down accounts is just a cheapskate, brute force tactic I would associate more with the Chinese government and how it deals with critics.

[dantan]

Great... today after losing my Ali account, I still get spams from them.

For balustrades and handrails this time. I have never searched for either term in my entire life. Not on any search engine, not even 20 years ago.

Not only is their automated system retarded when it comes to flagging problem accounts, it is also retarded when it comes to trying to figure out what ads you might like to view.

[Targa-TV]

That's the thing about Aliexpress, it's the place to go for un-rebranded small things.
I only use it for stuff I don't need promptly and I browse extensively in Amazon and Ebay first. If I see the exact same product in Am, Eb and Ali, and it costs one third in Ali, that's rebranding and I'm willing to risk 5€, waiting for two+ months and deal with meh quality, because the alternative is having meh quality but paying ridiculous prices for the branding.
I also have a personal rule, never ever go over 22€ because over this figure there's a very high possibility that Italian customs will open the package and charge ridiculous amount of money for their s* service. But that depends on your country's handling fees I guess.
These self-made rules have insured me good experiences in Ali so far but that's mainly because I've bought a handful of very inconsequential s*, house stuff.
I'm very sorry for your crappy experience and the recent spam dantan but as a general suggestion, I'd change the 'steer clear from aliex' into 'steer clear from anything over a few bucks in aliex'.

[Sissy]

Its less "steer clear" and more buyers beware making big purchases.
Its still a good website to buy cheap Aristotle switches and other smaller parts for keyboards like LEDs

[dantan]

Its less "steer clear" and more buyers beware making big purchases.
Its still a good website to buy cheap Aristotle switches and other smaller parts for keyboards like LEDs

My house is full of low quality Ali stuff by now. Lots of low quality trash that you discover is flawed only after a while.

I bought LEDs from Ali also, and they die fast. Not fast enough to tell within 3 months, but obvious after 2 years. After my 6th or 7th LED change I learned SIP socket mod is a must if you want to use Ali cheapo LEDs.

Have no doubt that factories sort their products into grades. Amazon grade stuff gets shipped to US resellers at higher price tiers. Garbage grade stuff remain in China and get offered for pennies.

[dantan]

I reiterate my original finding: if you want to buy on Ali, be prepared either to complain and get account shut down, or just toss aside what you bought after it dies, and get something else new for pennies again.

Freaking sounds like how the Chinese government operates. If you overlook things like pollution, corruption and terrible civic attitudes to praise China, you're always welcome in China. If you test their system, prepare to die.

[dantan]

Might care to add, hcman has anxiously sent me 3 PMs asking me to confirm purchase on Aliexpress so he can get paid.

But guess what?

Since my account is suspended, I CAN'T. I've tried a bunch of times, and everytime am told my account is 'temporarily unavailable'. The human chat can't do anything because they have no discretion, and don't even have info on why I was banned. No human supervisor can review this case.

Hcman will eventually get paid. Aliexpress has this system where if no complaint is received after 2 months or something, they pay out automatically. But I'm sorry for both him and me, stuck with this crap system. Oh wait, I just put in a $198 order on Amazon. I'm not stuck with a crap system. Aliexpress freed me from buying their stuff by banning me, so I'll just have to buy from their alternatives instead.

And I notice jd.com is now listed on the stock exchange. Jd.com is a highly professional business also, with branches all over China and their own warehousing/ delivery system like Amazon. They're not big enough to host a variety of keycaps, but if I wanted to buy a moderately expensive item I would take jd.com over ali anytime.