[Interest Check] Alucase for Phantom and Filco

[Swede]

welcome back swede!!! glad you're not lying in a ditch somewhere

case is looking good!

ps, since it sounds like you have reasonably priced machine time, and are relatively local to damorgue, could you please ping him?

thanks buds!

I've talked with him a bit since I restarted the case, and he has recommended an anodiser for me, if I'm lucky they might do my prototypes for free (just dropping it in with some other stuff), so I can give you guys some concrete colours to decide from
And my machine cost is unbeatable, it's half of what most can offer since it's on my school, might even get it for free if I do a very limited series, they said that I can do about 40cases for free. And judging from the support I got last time I guess I will pass that limit

excellent!!

some fine cuts on the the exterior of his 3d-printed parts might just give it the finish he's been looking for...

But we have only talked about my own case, Don't know about his 3d printed stuff.. :/
I can't do outside jobs in school, even if my school does outside jobs sometimes students can't gather orders themselves.

[damorgue]

I haven't brought it up yet. One thing at a time. I only offered to help him with his case, anodizing and such. I don't want to slow down the progress on the case, I intend to buy one eventually.

Great progress btw, keep it up. Let me know if you need help with anything else. I can visit the anodizer to do a quality check and hopefully all the cases won't disappear during my visit 

[longweight]

So when will this be happening?

[Swede]

I haven't brought it up yet. One thing at a time. I only offered to help him with his case, anodizing and such. I don't want to slow down the progress on the case, I intend to buy one eventually.

Great progress btw, keep it up. Let me know if you need help with anything else. I can visit the anodizer to do a quality check and hopefully all the cases won't disappear during my visit 

Well the last two days have been intense... Never intended to finish the bottom piece that fast, I just got to work and never stopped xD
And for those who wonder, I had to redo everything since my SSD failed and I lost almost all my progress, got the PC running again 6 days ago...

Btw, If I didn't have these threads about the case, it would never have come this far. You won't slow me down, rather the opposite since I get reminded constantly...

[Swede]

So when will this be happening?

I will not give a deadline, but it hope it's in a few weeks atleast for the prototype.
I am waaay to optimistic with deadlines, so better if I dont make any.

[longweight]

So when will this be happening?

I will not give a deadline, but it hope it's in a few weeks atleast for the prototype.
I am waaay to optimistic with deadlines, so better if I dont make any.

Cool Don't try to push the price too low, I want it to be worth your while!

[WhiteFireDragon]

So glad to see this thread revived! When you start doing colors, I vote for pure black.

[jwaz]

Matte black! Matte metal gun!

[balanar]

^ Seconded!

[dorkvader]

I'm very excited to see this! I'll be wanting one or two at the least! My phantom will be unparalleled.

Matte black is a good option, as it reflects less light (Very low albedo), which goes in line with the phantom hiding out.

[Swede]

I agree that I would like a gun metal black. But most cases are black already.

Personally I would like a more non standard colour, just to make mine stand out from the rest of the cases

[emptythecache]

a dark steely blue would be lovely. Also gunmetal. Also Also, I want one.

[TheProfosist]

Interested in 2x 7bit depending on price.

[Swede]

Interested in 2x 7bit depending on price.

All variants will have same price, price is not decided yet. Will order from different companies this time around, and have not checked prices yet.
But I hope it will be good prices as I have almost half the machining cost of most places

[Swede]

I feel like killing myself....

Checked the depth of the Tensi controller since I got my Phantom today. It's 12.4mm with usb cable.. I got a measurment of 5mm without cable in the autumn...

Without cable the height is 9mm, almost double the height. I think you know what the problem is.

So even if you sand down the usb cable it won't fit. If we mount the controller without spacers, which is probably not a good idea, we lose an additional 2.4mm. Now it "fits". But it's touching the aluminium, so now it's frying everything.

I have one choice really, and that is to redesign the case again. ****. My. Life. 

Luckily, sort of, is that it's an easy fix, but I will go over the 15mm block height, increasing the overall price since I need bigger blocks. Also I discovered this before I manufactured it. So I won't be giving out useless cases atleast...

I didn't need this.

[alaricljs]

Not quite sure what height you're talking about... Standard teensy install instructions on a Phantom board removes the plastic spacers and you are supposed to air-gap the controller off the main PCB with a slip of paper or some such.  The thickest part at this point is the USB cable and there are some that are just too thick, especially with the teensy so close to the main PCB.

[Swede]

Not quite sure what height you're talking about... Standard teensy install instructions on a Phantom board removes the plastic spacers and you are supposed to air-gap the controller off the main PCB with a slip of paper or some such.  The thickest part at this point is the USB cable and there are some that are just too thick, especially with the teensy so close to the main PCB.

Even so the Teensy does not fit, so I still need to redesign the case. I made room for the height I was given, and I was sure of that the measurment I was given was correct. So I made room for a "standard" cable. And the teensy height I have now does not fit even if I gave it some extra room.

That means my "final" designs was not final. But in the end it's good news, since I didn't do a case that does not fit what it was meant to fit. But It also delays me further, and really, this case have had enough of those.

[precarious]

are compatible plates/boards still available for purchase someplace?

[WhiteFireDragon]

Even so the Teensy does not fit, so I still need to redesign the case. I made room for the height I was given, and I was sure of that the measurment I was given was correct. So I made room for a "standard" cable. And the teensy height I have now does not fit even if I gave it some extra room

How thick is the case? Can't you just program the CNC to file down the area of the case where the teensy will be touching so that it gives a few millimeters of clearance? Of course if the case is not thick enough where if you had to file all the way through the other side, then that won't work.

are compatible plates/boards still available for purchase someplace?

Nope, group buy was over a long time ago, and there are no extras. Round2 phantom might happen, but that won't be for a long time.

[Swede]

I had a thickness of about 1-2mm, and that is really as low as I can go with the thickness.

But overall the new design is quite similar to the Filco, so if you have a filco and get this, you don't need that much of a readjustment to the new angle of the keyboard.

Did some quick changes, these are not final and need some work.

Increased the depth for the Teensy, and decreased it for the filco side. It's not needed to be as thick as the Teensy side really.

Just comparing the new angle to the old one. Much more similar to the Filco design now.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Any estimates to how much this will add on to the price since you need to order thicker aluminum blocks now? The areas that are not hollowed out looks very thick now, which is a good thing

[Swede]

Any estimates to how much this will add on to the price since you need to order thicker aluminum blocks now? The areas that are not hollowed out looks very thick now, which is a good thing

Not so much of an increase, but $10 maximum. More pieces it will cost about $5/ piece. But it's going to take longer to machine, where the main cost is. So instead of machining out 1.5kg, I machine out 2kg. Luckily most of that can be faced out with a big tool. So that time is minimised.

But I guess $10-$15 increase on the high side.

[Swede]

Made some fine tuning yesterday and added the holes so I can countersunk the hex screws.
Also made a better radii in the corners (that was changed), for the Phantom plate it's no problem, but the filco plate it was a squeese. And that is due to the edges not beeing chamfered.

The Phantomplate had a whole 1.5mm in the corners. The filco plate only got 0.25mm... all due to the edges being 90°, but it would fit. Barely.

I made the radius smaller so we get more room. But then the screws will be exposed, but I had it like that in the "pre teensy fix" design, so no problem really.
So now the filco will drop in a bit easier. (the holes only guides the screw, no thread on these holes)


Other than that, I need to get my teacher to look at it. And we'll see how realistic my design is. I have some places that I think I need to change.
The cable channel is one of them. The chamfered edges probably needs to go(A). Will also fix the radius(B), so I don't need to use a 2mm bit.

Try and spot another potential problem, saw it now as I'm writing this

[damorgue]

I see three problems:
A) I would still consider the holes that protrude the inner radii to be a problem. They will break either the mill bit or the drill bit quite a lot depending on what order you do them. At least that is the case with stainless steel. Aluminum might be soft enough to not break them.

B) The design seems to require several different mill bits. Places around supports with rounds will suit a ball end mill bit while the sharp corners will require a flute mill bit.

C) (Letters and previous arrows are from your image and not related to my A and B)

That incline will be difficult. It is related to B. Imagine your mill bit travelling up and down, or from side to side. How will the edge of that incline look. If you use a flute mill bit to get the sharp edge (marked in image), thenj it won't be sharp when the bit travels in an incline., you need another axis on your mill to make it sharp. There are a couple of these inclines with sharp edges.

[Swede]

I see three problems:
A) I would still consider the holes that protrude the inner radii to be a problem. They will break either the mill bit or the drill bit quite a lot depending on what order you do them. At least that is the case with stainless steel. Aluminum might be soft enough to not break them.

B) The design seems to require several different mill bits. Places around supports with rounds will suit a ball end mill bit while the sharp corners will require a flute mill bit.

C) (Letters and previous arrows are from your image and not related to my A and B)

Show Image

That incline will be difficult. It is related to B. Imagine your mill bit travelling up and down, or from side to side. How will the edge of that incline look. If you use a flute mill bit to get the sharp edge (marked in image), thenj it won't be sharp when the bit travels in an incline., you need another axis on your mill to make it sharp. There are a couple of these inclines with sharp edges.

Yep, all true. It's a designers curse really. Easy to model, hard or impossible to do in real life. And thanks for pointing out a few other things :)

Both slopes need a ball end mill, idealy I should stick to being able to use a flat mill. I don't think I need the supports around the stands, but they look good. Going to get removed most likely.

Will see how much is changed when all is looked into more detail. Going to the workshop tomorrow to look for tools to use, will probably spot a few other stuff then.

[damorgue]

The chamfers might be good to keep the cables from chafing, but really, how much will the cable move around? I don't think many people will complain about aesthetics on the inside if you decide to remove features there.

The shear force on the support stands will be close to none, so I agree that the fillet there is unnecessary, but if you are going to use a ball end, then you may as well leave it. Once you have decided what mill bits to use, I would stick to them throughout the design.

I want to reduce the toll it will have on my wallet, which is why I am trying to reduce unnecessary expenses

What is the plan for securing the cable? Looking at the pics, it looks like you had something in mind. Some standard plug which you snap on the cable and then push down, or just make the cable itself end there with its socket, or? I may have missed it if you mentioned it earlier.

[Swede]

The chamfers might be good to keep the cables from chafing, but really, how much will the cable move around? I don't think many people will complain about aesthetics on the inside if you decide to remove features there.

The shear force on the support stands will be close to none, so I agree that the fillet there is unnecessary, but if you are going to use a ball end, then you may as well leave it. Once you have decided what mill bits to use, I would stick to them throughout the design.

I want to reduce the toll it will have on my wallet, which is why I am trying to reduce unnecessary expenses

What is the plan for securing the cable? Looking at the pics, it looks like you had something in mind. Some standard plug which you snap on the cable and then push down, or just make the cable itself end there with its socket, or? I may have missed it if you mentioned it earlier.

When I started doing this I saw it more like an artwork of some sort. I wanted to have a case that was an orgy of manufacturing complexity and other fancy stuff.
I mean, look at the earliest designs. Totaly unusable and unoptimised design, but looked good/decent and was almost impossible to make.
The new design rivals it in looks imo. But is easier to make, and more usable.

Right now the cable hole is just a square hole for the Filco cableholder, if I use a ball mill in 6mm or smaller I can make it rounded in the bottom.

The Phantom users will have a problem with the standard 4mm USB cable, and doing an insert for 4mm will be a bit unecessary I feel.
I'm going to make my own braided cable, and I think this is the easiest solution to make it fit.

But I want some sort of way to make a standard USB cable stay in place. Changing the design for Phantom buyers is possible, Will see if I'm going to use a  flat mill or ball mill to make the 4mm cable fit. If I do, I can possibly change that for those who want it.

[damorgue]

You could make it compatible with something like this:
https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~se_sv/elfa/init.do?item=55-011-50&toc=20639

You snap it on the cable and then push it down a slit in the case which fixates it.

[Swede]

You could make it compatible with something like this:
https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~se_sv/elfa/init.do?item=55-011-50&toc=20639

You snap it on the cable and then push it down a slit in the case which fixates it.

Interesting. Wonder if I should incorporate this into the design...  Also cheaper than buying it.
Will try and do a model of this

Edit: Doing a shape that will work like that is quite hard when incorporating the tooling.. Will try and fix something that can work, right now it wont work, also looks ****

[damorgue]

They are 40c each if you buy small quantities, they have larger pocks too, so I recon it will be cheaper to use them than the extra milling time.

I am totally behind your decision to incorporate it in the case. It would look a lot better without the plastic plug. Were you thinking an S shaped path for the cable which locks it there when the case is screwed together?

[Swede]

A horisontal S shaped path don't work unless I remove the cable path entierly, but I'll look into that. Probably the best solution.

Was doing a vertical S shape and trying to keep most like it is. Didn't work.

[damorgue]

You can route an S shaped path inside the case at the bottom and just run the cable out the hole.

[Swede]

Yep. But this design is tight. It's 4.2mm wide all the way through, so you need to press the cable in there quite hard.


Will change it around a bit to see if I can improve it.

Just wondering how it'll work with the filco, since it has a cable lock already, this is not needed so much.
Also the protruding edge(A) is quite thin, only 0.8mm. But to make it thicker I need to move everything closer to the edge of the case.
Similar problem with the other edge(B), do you think I can just remove it?

[damorgue]

I would use the length of the side instead of the depth. You have, as you have notices, a small depth to fit the S shape in. I would extend it sidewise and perhaps make a 100 degree bend and then back.

[dorkvader]

Cable glands are a good idea. I've always supported their use, even in DIY designs.

I also like damorgue's Z-shape cable routing.

I was going to say some things about the design, but he already said them! That guy knows a lot about manufacturing, and I've never done it in the real world.

What size ball end(s) are you using? It might be possible to make the cable channel rounded on the bottom. I'll be making my USB cables, so I'm good for anything 1.7mm to 6mm in diameter.

[Swede]

Cable glands are a good idea. I've always supported their use, even in DIY designs.

I also like damorgue's Z-shape cable routing.

I was going to say some things about the design, but he already said them! That guy knows a lot about manufacturing, and I've never done it in the real world.

What size ball end(s) are you using? It might be possible to make the cable channel rounded on the bottom. I'll be making my USB cables, so I'm good for anything 1.7mm to 6mm in diameter.

Right now I try and make room for a standard 4mm USB cable.


I hope to make a quick prototype of this today to see how my design works. The 90° vertical bend might mess up the hold on the cable so it wont stay in place.
Going to make a rounded bottom and a flat, to see how both works.

This design will however make the Filco cablelock useless, so either you have to cut it off or stow it away.

[longweight]

Is their room inside for the stock Filco cablelock?

[Zehkul]

Ok, that’s it. No more group buys for me, I need to save for this case.

[Swede]

Is their room inside for the stock Filco cablelock?

You can stuff it in the slot where the Teensy is supposed to go, it's 8.5mm of clearence there, lots of room.
Inside the cable routing, no.
You will loose a bit of length of the cable, but the cable is long enough, so loosing a few cm of cable wont be a deal breaker for most people.

[dorkvader]

Cable glands are a good idea. I've always supported their use, even in DIY designs.

I also like damorgue's Z-shape cable routing.

I was going to say some things about the design, but he already said them! That guy knows a lot about manufacturing, and I've never done it in the real world.

What size ball end(s) are you using? It might be possible to make the cable channel rounded on the bottom. I'll be making my USB cables, so I'm good for anything 1.7mm to 6mm in diameter.

Right now I try and make room for a standard 4mm USB cable.

Show Image

I hope to make a quick prototype of this today to see how my design works. The 90° vertical bend might mess up the hold on the cable so it wont stay in place.
Going to make a rounded bottom and a flat, to see how both works.

This design will however make the Filco cablelock useless, so either you have to cut it off or stow it away.

I'm not convinced that sharp a bend radius for the cable will work as well long-term. The second bend looks good, though.

[Cindori]

what software are you making that in?

[i488]

Damn. I'm so broke now, too!

You'll have time to save.

It will take a few weeks before I can get the prototype done. And I will wait some weeks after that to get a decent bunch of orders.

I am definitly getting this even if i have to sell one of my kidney

[WhiteFireDragon]

Well if you want price rape, go to the other Filco metal case by feng/MKC and order that one. It's available now for $355 shipped. I'm just waiting to see how this one unfolds.

[dorkvader]

I'd prefer this one TBH. I really like what I've seen of the styling thus far.

[Swede]

what software are you making that in?

I am using Solidworks to make this design.

Well if you want price rape, go to the other Filco metal case by feng/MKC and order that one. It's available now for $355 shipped. I'm just waiting to see how this one unfolds.

The MKC is worth it's price imo. You're able to choose from almost any colour for your case, and the quality is top notch!
This case will take a few weeks more. I hope to have the prototype done in 3 weeks, but giving no guarantees of that happening.

Reason I want to have it done by then is that I will be away for 5 weeks work. Meaning zero progress during that time.
It's part of my education, so I can't avoid it.

[Acetrak]

Is this still a potential GB?

[TheProfosist]

I hope so i need myself a 7bit phantom case thats better than my modded plu case

[Leewei]

Hihi, hope this groupbuy comes up again cause of the new phantom rerun!

[Batmann]

 how about checking with treble and linking this to the gh60 case to cut the costs?

[damorgue]

how about checking with treble and linking this to the gh60 case to cut the costs?

I have tried to reach Swede with no success for some time.