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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: noisyturtle on Fri, 10 March 2017, 10:58:52

Title: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 10 March 2017, 10:58:52
They sure seem to have become really popular with a lot of people all of a sudden.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 10 March 2017, 11:09:30
I thought they were a couple years ago. Are you talking about stuff like Ergodox and the one massdrop ran so many of?
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 10 March 2017, 11:21:27
The market with ergonomic peripherals exploded in the 1990s, and even though a lot of it didn't survive the 2000s (due to funding issues, dot-com collapse etc.), plenty of people stuck with MS Natural keyboards and enjoyed their benefits (http://ergo.berkeley.edu/docs/2008 Rempel HF.pdf).

It's just that "mechanical" keyboards have become widespread enough, that making such ergonomic keyboards is financially manageable now and obviously there are more people making them.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: dante on Fri, 10 March 2017, 12:25:52
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: HPE1000 on Fri, 10 March 2017, 12:34:37
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
I just dont get the 40% hype in the first place. 60% is actually a layout that doesn't restrict you much compared to tkl or full size in terms of functionality. 40% is just a tad bit smaller and so much harder to use, you essentially have to relearn to type on it.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 10 March 2017, 12:38:16
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)

addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: henz on Fri, 10 March 2017, 12:47:37
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)


addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

Just put your arrow cluster somewhere else?
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: fatpolomanjr on Fri, 10 March 2017, 13:31:54
Some of us have actual wrist pain issues for which a split / ergonomic keyboard are really nice to have. I was using a TEX Yoda 60% as my daily driver but that jacked my wrists up pretty bad with some awful RSI. Now I simply can't go back to standard, non-split keyboards.

40% keyboards are not for everyone, but they are surprisingly viable for daily use. Especially with the default 2 function layers, such as the planck or let's split Lower and Raise, and the optional reprogramming of Enter to Shift (hold) + Enter (tap) or the left ESC to CTRL (hold) + ESC (tap).

I can't get behind 30% at all. IMO that is either insane or just a novelty. Those keyboards annoy me in the same way 40% keyboards (along with even artisan keycaps and custom $100+ keysets) used to annoy me, and possibly annoy OP and other die-hard TKL or 60% and larger keyboard users. My thoughts were always "Is everyone just in on some kind of circlejerk that I am unaware of?" But this was during my early days of my first mech, a KBP V80 TKL, in which a single artisan or an entire keyset costing more than my keyboard itself sounded really dumb. I've since sold it and assembled an Atreus 62 with mod-m switches, toothy fugus, and nantucket selectric, so I guess I am in on the circlejerk now...
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 10 March 2017, 13:44:09
The Ergodox is Superior to all other keyboards because of the following reasons.


--TENTING angle up to 55 Degrees is possible without major modification

--Completely eliminates Wrist related Repetitive stress pains

--Fully programmable keys,

--Multi layer key programmability

--Open programmability down to firmware level

--Split layout

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)



Mild drawbacks..

Could use an extra top row of keys..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: henz on Fri, 10 March 2017, 14:08:04


--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)


Wtf do you mean? Are you biting your lip the least when your using blues? :)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: HPE1000 on Fri, 10 March 2017, 14:10:33
The Ergodox is Superior to all other keyboards because of the following reasons.


--TENTING angle up to 55 Degrees is possible without major modification

--Completely eliminates Wrist related Repetitive stress pains

--Fully programmable keys,

--Multi layer key programmability

--Open programmability down to firmware level

--Split layout

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)



Mild drawbacks..

Could use an extra top row of keys..
You ever going to post a picture of your ergodox? lol
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 10 March 2017, 14:55:26


--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)


Wtf do you mean? Are you biting your lip the least when your using blues? :)

hahah, naw, i've just repurposed that word, it's clear from context what I mean.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 10 March 2017, 14:55:58

You ever going to post a picture of your ergodox? lol

Ergodox fotos are for Tp4 inner circle exclusives.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:06:00
Split keyboards solve the mouse space issue. I think they'll be around for a while.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:13:16
Split keyboards solve the mouse space issue. I think they'll be around for a while.

it's not just that. 

they solve all of the problems with flat keyboards in general..

Flat is a problem..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:30:02
The Ergodox is Superior to all other keyboards because of the following reasons.


--TENTING angle up to 55 Degrees is possible without major modification

--Completely eliminates Wrist related Repetitive stress pains

--Fully programmable keys,

--Multi layer key programmability

--Open programmability down to firmware level

--Split layout

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)



Mild drawbacks..

Could use an extra top row of keys..

Tp is always "tenting" when he starts to think about his ergodox...
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: digi on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:46:39
You can keep your split keyboards, I'm here for the circlejerk.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: henz on Fri, 10 March 2017, 17:12:04


--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)


Wtf do you mean? Are you biting your lip the least when your using blues? :)

hahah, naw, i've just repurposed that word, it's clear from context what I mean.

I have no idea what you meant, you like it?
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: OfTheWild on Fri, 10 March 2017, 18:27:58
I thought everyone was on an ortholinear kick... but yeah, splits seem to be coming back in style.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 11 March 2017, 00:32:53
Now that businesses are going wild buying their employees Freestyles, yeah.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 11 March 2017, 00:43:31
I thought everyone was on an ortholinear kick... but yeah, splits seem to be coming back in style.



It's inevitable..  one day,  we will look upon flat keyboards as classics..   but they are simply NOT practical for extended daily use, the Split Tented boards are superior in every way.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 11 March 2017, 00:49:51
I am bad with them because I move them around obsessing over the perfect split angle than doing work  :(
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 11 March 2017, 01:24:08
I am bad with them because I move them around obsessing over the perfect split angle than doing work  :(

well tenting should go as high as possible..

as for placement on the desk relative to your hands..   that's not such an issue, because you'll have to move it eventually..   it's never going to stay in once place..


For example, if you have lots to type. you might put the both halves dead center, and keep the mouse on the right.



But if you're playing a game, or doing cad,  you would split the halves to two sides, so you have more comfortable access to the mouse in the middle.


The important take away here is that THIS IS POSSIBLE with a split keyboard..   a Flat one piece keyboard on top of being detrimental to your hands, is also just not versatile to the Variety of Computer Tasks that modern people work through.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: OfTheWild on Sat, 11 March 2017, 01:43:09
I really want to try out an ergodox before I commit to it. I feel like they are impossible to resell if by chance I happen to hate it.  :-X
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: ArchDill on Sat, 11 March 2017, 01:50:52
I think 65% and 75% boards will be.


OR


SPLIT 65%-75% LIKE THE VE.A
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 11 March 2017, 01:54:10
no that's still topre
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 11 March 2017, 03:30:04
In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 11 March 2017, 03:45:57
Glad to see some more split ANSI boards out there with F-rows.  Keep 'em coming.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 11 March 2017, 03:58:50
no that's still topre
The topre circlejerk will not stop until every person on planet earth owns a topre board and likes it. :)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: algernon on Sat, 11 March 2017, 04:50:11
In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

I'm using a trackball in the middle of the two halves of my ErgoDox (and soon Keyboardio). I have more space on the desk this way, and I can use the trackball with either of my hands. If it would be on the side, it would only be usable by one hand. It's a very sweet setup.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 11 March 2017, 10:58:01
In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

The mouse being in the middle is much more comfortable because the arm naturally rests  pointing inwards.


MANY of the bodily poses you have in front of the computer are Conditioned, rather than natural..


For example...  for you to turn your hands flat to face the keyboard,  THIS is very bad and unnatural a motion for your arms to engage in..


However, because you do it so much, you've gotten used to it..


Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 11 March 2017, 12:17:28
I can tent two 60% boards...
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 11 March 2017, 12:46:05
I can tent two 60% boards...

no you can't  the latency between two keyboards over usb is unpredictable
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 11 March 2017, 12:47:19
I can tent two 60% boards...

no you can't  the latency between two keyboards over usb is unpredictable

Ah, that's probably true...
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: falkentyne on Sat, 11 March 2017, 16:40:46
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
I just dont get the 40% hype in the first place. 60% is actually a layout that doesn't restrict you much compared to tkl or full size in terms of functionality. 40% is just a tad bit smaller and so much harder to use, you essentially have to relearn to type on it.

TKL keyboards make sense because typewriters didn't have number keypads.  Those were invented on Terminals and used on the original IBM PC's extensively too (including the full size model F).But if you have the room for it, full size keyboard that have macro capability make a lot of sense (if you have room) because you can turn the entire number keypad into macros and media keys.
60% is more of a PC novelty but is nice to carry around with laptops.  40%...don't get me started.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: digi on Sat, 11 March 2017, 17:23:34
I can tent two 60% boards...

no you can't  the latency between two keyboards over usb is unpredictable

Ah, that's probably true...

haha
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: chyros on Sat, 11 March 2017, 19:18:07
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)


addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.
That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: exitfire401 on Sat, 11 March 2017, 20:48:02
They sure seem to have become really popular with a lot of people all of a sudden.

Can't be. Tp4 isn't constantly spam posting about any of the others.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 11 March 2017, 23:29:57
I'm just waiting for a split 122 board ;)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: davkol on Sun, 12 March 2017, 04:15:26
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)


addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.
That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.
Which leads to poor posture (shoulder, neck) and longer distance between the main section and the mouse (that's why trackpoint exists btw). High sensitivity is not quite suitable for certain use cases… But then again, I doubt you care about any of that, if you press the spacebar with an index finger.
(http://www.rsipain.com/keyboard-width.gif)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: chyros on Sun, 12 March 2017, 06:05:12
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)


addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.
That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.
Which leads to poor posture (shoulder, neck) and longer distance between the main section and the mouse (that's why trackpoint exists btw). High sensitivity is not quite suitable for certain use cases… But then again, I doubt you care about any of that, if you press the spacebar with an index finger.
Show Image
(http://www.rsipain.com/keyboard-width.gif)

Correct, my posture is terrible and I basically just lie down in my chair. I couldn't live without high sensitivity though, my laser mouse finally broke a few weeks ago and I had to make do with an optical one for two weeks before a new one arrived. The low sensitivity actually felt really fatiguing when mousing around, and it's almost unusable for gaming I found because you just get so slow, everyone out-aims you.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 12 March 2017, 07:52:54
Twenty years in the making. Back in 2005, I purchased a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 from WALMART ...




[attachimg=3]
Kinesis Advantage: Men In Black (1997), Contact (1997), Flubber (1997)




[attachimg=1]
The Expanse (2016-2017)




[attachimg=2]
The Expanse (2016-2017)




The 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse and Icy Dock Black Vortex external HDD/SDD enclosure were featured in The Expanse. It's only a manner of time...
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: davkol on Sun, 12 March 2017, 09:18:21
Correct, my posture is terrible and I basically just lie down in my chair. I couldn't live without high sensitivity though, my laser mouse finally broke a few weeks ago and I had to make do with an optical one for two weeks before a new one arrived. The low sensitivity actually felt really fatiguing when mousing around, and it's almost unusable for gaming I found because you just get so slow, everyone out-aims you.
I thought you had Logitech M500. If that's the case, the tracking is _very_ inconsistent (due to in-mouse postprocessing) and the resolution is only 1000 dpi AFAIK.

Modern optical sensors, such as PWM 3310, can do much better, even at 3000 dpi. In fact, they're slightly better than A9800 (the laser sensor, that's overused in gaming mice, due to its high max resolution). Currently perhaps the best sensor, PWM 3366 used in the latest gaming Logitech mice, is optical and can consistently manage 12000 dpi (although it probably isn't useful, unless someone is already adopting 8k monitors).

On a different note, you might be surprised by low sensitivity common among pro Counter Strike players.
Title: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sun, 12 March 2017, 09:18:39
I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.
You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)


addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.
That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.
Which leads to poor posture (shoulder, neck) and longer distance between the main section and the mouse (that's why trackpoint exists btw). High sensitivity is not quite suitable for certain use cases… But then again, I doubt you care about any of that, if you press the spacebar with an index finger.
Show Image
(http://www.rsipain.com/keyboard-width.gif)

Correct, my posture is terrible and I basically just lie down in my chair. I couldn't live without high sensitivity though, my laser mouse finally broke a few weeks ago and I had to make do with an optical one for two weeks before a new one arrived. The low sensitivity actually felt really fatiguing when mousing around, and it's almost unusable for gaming I found because you just get so slow, everyone out-aims you.

Extreme high sensitivity like you describe is far from ideal for any skill based fps shooter.

You're being outamed because you're too lazy/not used to move your mouse quick enough for more then 2cm while laying in your chair, not because it's too slow.

No offense, there will always be people playing high sense, just had to correct the opposite being unusable.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: kasakka on Sun, 12 March 2017, 10:00:07
I'm happy that more split keyboards are coming to the market as well as split-spacebar options. To me it makes little sense to have a huge spacebar. I used the Zboard back in the day and even though you could not have different keys in that area, just hitting the smaller space was more pleasant.

I've even contemplated if I could hack my Satan GH60 plate and run some wires to unused key slots to turn it into a split-spacebar keyboard.

As for ergonomics, moving to a 60% keyboard was good for me, I feel I have less strain on both of my hands and I like the layout. I use one for both home and work and will hopefully have a Ultimate Hacking Keyboard when it gets released.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: opensecret on Sun, 12 March 2017, 12:34:59
In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

It depends on the mouse.  I'm not a fan of split keyboards (though I'm familiar with tp4tissue's advocacy on this issue), but I'm a big fan of the Contour Rollermouse, which puts the mouse functions right in front of the spacebar at the center of the keyboard.  Downside is that they cost more than most keyboards.
http://www.contourdesign.com/US/product/rollermouse-pro2/

Opinion on split keyboards is, well, split.  Some argue that how you type (for example, avoid bending your wrists, don't slam the keys) is more important than what you type on.  Taveira and Choi (2009) report that “available research does not provide yet conclusive evidence that split keyboards reduce the risk of long-term discomfort or injury,”  though “some users suffering from hand-wrist pain may experience improvement”  by switching to a split keyboard.  On the other hand, research also suggests that typing is slower on split boards and some people have difficulty adjusting to them.

I think this means that, if you are having pain, it’s well worth trying a split board.  If you’re not and all is going fine, type on boards that work for you.  I type a lot, and I’ve been typing on unified boards for slightly more than 60 years (originally on manual typewriters). I sometimes get arthritic pain in my knees and ankles, but typing is still pain-free. Maybe all that exercise has been good for me.
 
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 12 March 2017, 17:02:44

I think this means that, if you are having pain, it’s well worth trying a split board.  If you’re not and all is going fine, type on boards that work for you.  I type a lot, and I’ve been typing on unified boards for slightly more than 60 years (originally on manual typewriters). I sometimes get arthritic pain in my knees and ankles, but typing is still pain-free. Maybe all that exercise has been good for me.
 


Best example, the custom keyboard used for manual letter sorting.  It's just a person typing in address of poorly penned envelopes that the auto-scan machine was not able to read.

That keyboard is a tented keyboard

There is a very functional reason, a keyboard is tented, and the keys are non staggered..


Once you reach the level of truly intense keyboard use, ALL DAY level.. this design is the MOST OPTIMAL..



For the majority of users however,  they are plebs in the sense that facebook and dota are the only things they do on the pc..    While they could still benefit from a tented split keyboard,    the benefits to them is much less, because their actual usage is so low.


NONE of that changes the fact that We've KNOWN for a long time, How an OPTIMAL keyboard should be built..


ERGODOX is the most modern iteration on the market which comes from that ergonomic tradition and has NUMEROUS improvements.


Going by Fire Emblem Heroes Tiers,, 

Ergodox is an S+ Tier keyboard..



All your kmacs are fundamentally C-Tier boards.  You can collect them if you like, but they're gilded rubbish.


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: nmur on Sun, 12 March 2017, 17:41:15

You ever going to post a picture of your ergodox? lol

Ergodox fotos are for Tp4 inner circle exclusives.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: NamelessPFG on Sat, 18 March 2017, 02:32:16
I couldn't care less about any perceived circlejerking, but the generally exorbitant prices on ErgoDoxes and similar boards have kept me out of the club for something I've wanted to try out for a few years. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge Kickstarter may have given me a way in, though; managed to snap up a First Edition MX Blue board before the slots filled up.

See, what I want is a keyboard that doesn't suck to use when there isn't enough contiguous space in the center because it's taken up by things like touchscreen monitors, racing wheels and/or flight yokes. Every single simpit build I've seen with a conventional contiguous keyboard fails at this, and yet there's a simple solution in sight to anyone who's glanced down in an Elite: Dangerous cockpit and noted these decorative control panels above the pilot's legs, in between the HOTAS.

Also, think about it. Our hands aren't glued together; there's no reason to have to bring them next to each other to type if each hand's half of the keyboard is in a sensibly ergonomic position.

The only problem with going through with all that? Lack of split keyboard options, specifically affordable ones, like I said earlier. This is something that could take off if the prices came down to under $150 in general, maybe even $100 for fully-assembled board sets.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Sissy on Sat, 18 March 2017, 02:59:13
Cant say I'm a fan of the way they look thats for sure
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 18 March 2017, 03:00:45
I couldn't care less about any perceived circlejerking, but the generally exorbitant prices on ErgoDoxes and similar boards have kept me out of the club for something I've wanted to try out for a few years. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge Kickstarter may have given me a way in, though; managed to snap up a First Edition MX Blue board before the slots filled up.

See, what I want is a keyboard that doesn't suck to use when there isn't enough contiguous space in the center because it's taken up by things like touchscreen monitors, racing wheels and/or flight yokes. Every single simpit build I've seen with a conventional contiguous keyboard fails at this, and yet there's a simple solution in sight to anyone who's glanced down in an Elite: Dangerous cockpit and noted these decorative control panels above the pilot's legs, in between the HOTAS.

Also, think about it. Our hands aren't glued together; there's no reason to have to bring them next to each other to type if each hand's half of the keyboard is in a sensibly ergonomic position.

The only problem with going through with all that? Lack of split keyboard options, specifically affordable ones, like I said earlier. This is something that could take off if the prices came down to under $150 in general, maybe even $100 for fully-assembled board sets.



You could get a split keyboard, it doesn't have to be mechanical..

In the end,  SPLIT, and TENTING makes all the difference..  mechanical is mostly a fad..

The switches don't matter whatsoever to function..

However, as you've said, our HANDS are not built glued together.. so split- and tenting are both Functional Necessities..



I think the freestyle edge will be fine up to 30 degrees of tenting.. for higher than that, it's a bit iffy.  you're gonna need a pretty odd wrist rest to lift your hand into place..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: dantan on Sat, 18 March 2017, 03:05:16
The photo shows a keyboard I'd like to try out. Wonder why no one has tried to build one. So many people are going for the retro look with keycaps, why not with layouts that might actually be useful?




I think this means that, if you are having pain, it’s well worth trying a split board.  If you’re not and all is going fine, type on boards that work for you.  I type a lot, and I’ve been typing on unified boards for slightly more than 60 years (originally on manual typewriters). I sometimes get arthritic pain in my knees and ankles, but typing is still pain-free. Maybe all that exercise has been good for me.
 


Best example, the custom keyboard used for manual letter sorting.  It's just a person typing in address of poorly penned envelopes that the auto-scan machine was not able to read.

That keyboard is a tented keyboard

There is a very functional reason, a keyboard is tented, and the keys are non staggered..


Once you reach the level of truly intense keyboard use, ALL DAY level.. this design is the MOST OPTIMAL..



For the majority of users however,  they are plebs in the sense that facebook and dota are the only things they do on the pc..    While they could still benefit from a tented split keyboard,    the benefits to them is much less, because their actual usage is so low.


NONE of that changes the fact that We've KNOWN for a long time, How an OPTIMAL keyboard should be built..


ERGODOX is the most modern iteration on the market which comes from that ergonomic tradition and has NUMEROUS improvements.


Going by Fire Emblem Heroes Tiers,, 

Ergodox is an S+ Tier keyboard..



All your kmacs are fundamentally C-Tier boards.  You can collect them if you like, but they're gilded rubbish.


(Attachment Link)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: dantan on Sat, 18 March 2017, 03:05:57
Oh yes, thought I'd like to add, but no surprise here. Contour Rollermouse is totally useless for gaming.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 18 March 2017, 03:19:21
I couldn't care less about any perceived circlejerking, but the generally exorbitant prices on ErgoDoxes and similar boards have kept me out of the club for something I've wanted to try out for a few years. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge Kickstarter may have given me a way in, though; managed to snap up a First Edition MX Blue board before the slots filled up.

See, what I want is a keyboard that doesn't suck to use when there isn't enough contiguous space in the center because it's taken up by things like touchscreen monitors, racing wheels and/or flight yokes. Every single simpit build I've seen with a conventional contiguous keyboard fails at this, and yet there's a simple solution in sight to anyone who's glanced down in an Elite: Dangerous cockpit and noted these decorative control panels above the pilot's legs, in between the HOTAS.

Also, think about it. Our hands aren't glued together; there's no reason to have to bring them next to each other to type if each hand's half of the keyboard is in a sensibly ergonomic position.

The only problem with going through with all that? Lack of split keyboard options, specifically affordable ones, like I said earlier. This is something that could take off if the prices came down to under $150 in general, maybe even $100 for fully-assembled board sets.



You could get a split keyboard, it doesn't have to be mechanical..

In the end,  SPLIT, and TENTING makes all the difference..  mechanical is mostly a fad..

The switches don't matter whatsoever to function..

However, as you've said, our HANDS are not built glued together.. so split- and tenting are both Functional Necessities..



I think the freestyle edge will be fine up to 30 degrees of tenting.. for higher than that, it's a bit iffy.  you're gonna need a pretty odd wrist rest to lift your hand into place..

The switches do matter or at least the activation weight matters.  In fact, for alleviating my forearm pain, switch weight is more important than split/tenting.  Both those add additional help but simply moving from an ergo rubber dome board to MX reds helped remove a good amount of pain while typing.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 18 March 2017, 17:26:42

The switches do matter or at least the activation weight matters.  In fact, for alleviating my forearm pain, switch weight is more important than split/tenting.  Both those add additional help but simply moving from an ergo rubber dome board to MX reds helped remove a good amount of pain while typing.

Switch weight only comes into play in the extreme cases like super black, etc.


The reason switches do not matter all that much to ergonomics, is the fact that regardless of what switch you have..  It's possible to compensate through technique and training..

For example, if you've got a heavy switch, you can learn to type lighter, and ensure that your key strike force ends slightly early, thereby negating you from holding against the stronger spring..


However, Tenting and Split are non-negotiables when it comes to the anatomy of a human hand.

Flat profile keyboards are bad for your hands PERIOD.. no switch will change that.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: dantan on Sun, 19 March 2017, 05:33:02
You need to show us pictures of your boards. That way we can see for ourselves the best boards in existence... if they really exist.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 19 March 2017, 05:42:31
You need to show us pictures of your boards. That way we can see for ourselves the best boards in existence... if they really exist.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: dantan on Sun, 19 March 2017, 07:41:07
This is supposed to be TP4? How do we know it is a real photo of him and not something stolen from a random member of China's 1.4 billion people?
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 19 March 2017, 08:01:36
This is supposed to be TP4? How do we know it is a real photo of him and not something stolen from a random member of China's 1.4 billion people?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 20 March 2017, 01:02:47

The switches do matter or at least the activation weight matters.  In fact, for alleviating my forearm pain, switch weight is more important than split/tenting.  Both those add additional help but simply moving from an ergo rubber dome board to MX reds helped remove a good amount of pain while typing.

Switch weight only comes into play in the extreme cases like super black, etc.


The reason switches do not matter all that much to ergonomics, is the fact that regardless of what switch you have..  It's possible to compensate through technique and training..

For example, if you've got a heavy switch, you can learn to type lighter, and ensure that your key strike force ends slightly early, thereby negating you from holding against the stronger spring..


However, Tenting and Split are non-negotiables when it comes to the anatomy of a human hand.

Flat profile keyboards are bad for your hands PERIOD.. no switch will change that.

Again, we're in a situation here where we're not dealing with black and white but lots of gray.

Sure, in an ideal situation, you can be taught to do such things.  In reality, as I've said, the difference] in switch weight is paramount to me.  Split and tenting are of secondary importance to me to the point where I could abandon my ergo boards for simple boards with light linear switches and was just fine.  In fact, the mouse is far more the culprit of problems for me these days than the keyboard.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 March 2017, 02:31:39

Sure, in an ideal situation, you can be taught to do such things.  In reality, as I've said, the difference] in switch weight is paramount to me.  Split and tenting are of secondary importance to me to the point where I could abandon my ergo boards for simple boards with light linear switches and was just fine.  In fact, the mouse is far more the culprit of problems for me these days than the keyboard.

Incorrect.

If you feel that way, it is only because you are not fully enlightened to what matters.

It's like younger kids who think eating icecream is better than working out..

While the kids who worked out got the girls in the end..

Is icecream good.. YES,  does it matter or get some sort of job done.. NO..

It takes time and effort-ful contemplation to fully discover the ACT of typing..


What you have is a preference disjointed from --Function--..


You can keep dressing up a keyboard, be it the color, or the switch..  But until you cut one in half, tent them to 55 degrees...  --Nothing has really changed.. --
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 March 2017, 02:33:43
This is supposed to be TP4? How do we know it is a real photo of him and not something stolen from a random member of China's 1.4 billion people?

(Attachment Link)



I find it odd that fan people knows where tp4 fotos were posted..

You don't also have a collection of geekhack member fotos do you ?

hahahahahhaa
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 20 March 2017, 05:58:05
This is supposed to be TP4? How do we know it is a real photo of him and not something stolen from a random member of China's 1.4 billion people?

(Attachment Link)



I find it odd that fan people knows where tp4 fotos were posted..

You don't also have a collection of geekhack member fotos do you ?

hahahahahhaa

i keep thsee photos in my pron collection
Title: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 20 March 2017, 06:03:16

Sure, in an ideal situation, you can be taught to do such things.  In reality, as I've said, the difference] in switch weight is paramount to me.  Split and tenting are of secondary importance to me to the point where I could abandon my ergo boards for simple boards with light linear switches and was just fine.  In fact, the mouse is far more the culprit of problems for me these days than the keyboard.

Incorrect.

If you feel that way, it is only because you are not fully enlightened to what matters.

It's like younger kids who think eating icecream is better than working out..

While the kids who worked out got the girls in the end..

Is icecream good.. YES,  does it matter or get some sort of job done.. NO..

It takes time and effort-ful contemplation to fully discover the ACT of typing..


What you have is a preference disjointed from --Function--..


You can keep dressing up a keyboard, be it the color, or the switch..  But until you cut one in half, tent them to 55 degrees...  --Nothing has really changed.. --


I'm a fan of split boards aswell, but this hole discussion is kinda hard to observe honestly.

I disagree that split is the only thing that matters without specifying the problem first.

Of course split improves ergonomics and reduces stress on your wrist, but this will only prove significant if your sensible to this and had issues with it before.

That's pretty much like saying, using a walker is the only correct way because it reduces stress on your leg muscles...
Why would you need a fix if your not having any issues?


Im a fan of the VE.A, because I can choose to split whenever I feel like, and don't have too look full ergo fetish 24:7, no offense.

Feel free to rip me apart for this, reject my reality and substitute your own.
Maybe try not to force yours on others either tho...
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 March 2017, 14:44:48


i keep thsee photos in my pron collection

You've gone TOO FAR.. fanpeople.. TOO FAR...

hahahahaha
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: ander on Mon, 20 March 2017, 23:51:40
I dunno. I went to a circle jerk last week and no one was using a split KB. No one was typing at all, in fact. Maybe we're on entirely the wrong track here.


You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)



Sometimes I wonder if the people who complain about having to reach for their mice never bothered to learn to use basic things like Tab / Shift+Tab to move from one part of a page to another; shortcuts like Ctrl+L/R and Ctrl+Home/End to move within text; Alt-Tab to switch applications; the Windows/Super key and main-menu search box, and so on, and they're just grabbing their mice for every single thing they do besides typing? Maybe it's just an education thing.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 21 March 2017, 00:29:40
I dunno. I went to a circle jerk last week and no one was using a split KB. No one was typing at all, in fact. Maybe we're on entirely the wrong track here.


You might find the illustration from Kinesis (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/294674098/freestyle-edge-the-ultimate-split-gaming-keyboard) helpful…

Show Image
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/661/766/3d40a25040484f09bb25ded8343856f1_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1488221105&auto=format&q=92&s=4dc6cd7a4ce3bdc39357664c10802e6e)



Sometimes I wonder if the people who complain about having to reach for their mice never bothered to learn to use basic things like Tab / Shift+Tab to move from one part of a page to another; shortcuts like Ctrl+L/R and Ctrl+Home/End to move within text; Alt-Tab to switch applications; the Windows/Super key and main-menu search box, and so on, and they're just grabbing their mice for every single thing they do besides typing? Maybe it's just an education thing.

It's nice to have a smaller keyboard when playing games, especially if you don't use high sens. If you don't need the numpad for binds, why not use a TKL/60? Average CSGO sens is 900-1000 edpi, with that you really need around a 15x15 mousepad. Starts taking up a lot of room especially if you don't want the mousepad flush with the keyboard. I can say it wouldn't be very comfortable using a full size board with my XXL mousepad that is 35.5 inches wide while playing at ~800 edpi.

Now if you don't play games and use a high sensitivity, then yeah, a full size board is probably okay, I would still rather have a TKL/60 and a separate numpad that I can bring in when needed.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 21 March 2017, 01:03:53

Sure, in an ideal situation, you can be taught to do such things.  In reality, as I've said, the difference] in switch weight is paramount to me.  Split and tenting are of secondary importance to me to the point where I could abandon my ergo boards for simple boards with light linear switches and was just fine.  In fact, the mouse is far more the culprit of problems for me these days than the keyboard.

Incorrect.

If you feel that way, it is only because you are not fully enlightened to what matters.

It's like younger kids who think eating icecream is better than working out..

While the kids who worked out got the girls in the end..

Is icecream good.. YES,  does it matter or get some sort of job done.. NO..

It takes time and effort-ful contemplation to fully discover the ACT of typing..


What you have is a preference disjointed from --Function--..


You can keep dressing up a keyboard, be it the color, or the switch..  But until you cut one in half, tent them to 55 degrees...  --Nothing has really changed.. --

You're wrong in stating that nothing has changed.  What has changed is my pain, which you seem to have ignored.  My pain, simply through change of switch, has decreased.  My pain, without the 55 degree tenting or any tenting for that matter, without the split, has decreased.  It's made more of a difference to me than the tenting and split.  This is something I've tested.  I've gone through this over the years.  I've found what works best for me. 


Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 March 2017, 04:46:51

You're wrong in stating that nothing has changed.  What has changed is my pain, which you seem to have ignored.  My pain, simply through change of switch, has decreased.  My pain, without the 55 degree tenting or any tenting for that matter, without the split, has decreased.  It's made more of a difference to me than the tenting and split.  This is something I've tested.  I've gone through this over the years.  I've found what works best for me. 


That is a misattribution error.

The slight difference in feel of the NEW switch put you into a state where you relearned and adjusted your typing technique.


Having the different switch may have instigated the improvement,  but the weight of the switch or its mechanisms has nothing to do with having alleviated any pain.


All that's happened, is it's initiated a learning protocol for you to re-train.


Having taught piano for years, I've seen this happen alot..


Many novice players simply press the keys too hard, or hold them down with force (unnecessarily)..


So a common way to improve their technique is to retrain them on a piano or keyboard with slightly different key weight than they're used to.


Once they relearn and adjust their technique, they can go back onto any key weight, and play properly.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Data on Tue, 21 March 2017, 13:40:12
Cant say I'm a fan of the way they look thats for sure

Come on... really?

(http://i.imgur.com/32GzE1B.jpg)

Nothing?

(http://i.imgur.com/i763bv5.jpg?1)

Not even a tickle?

(http://i.imgur.com/KmqoOrs.jpg?1)

Those are just mine -- they're not even the best examples and I'm a **** photographer.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: FoC_Tow on Tue, 21 March 2017, 23:21:20
Still nothing??

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h28oHjxaBvM/UqHFSnf8buI/AAAAAAAACiE/8XnZ4LQygH8/s1600/20131206_topfhandschuherosa_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 21 March 2017, 23:25:37

You're wrong in stating that nothing has changed.  What has changed is my pain, which you seem to have ignored.  My pain, simply through change of switch, has decreased.  My pain, without the 55 degree tenting or any tenting for that matter, without the split, has decreased.  It's made more of a difference to me than the tenting and split.  This is something I've tested.  I've gone through this over the years.  I've found what works best for me. 


That is a misattribution error.

The slight difference in feel of the NEW switch put you into a state where you relearned and adjusted your typing technique.


Having the different switch may have instigated the improvement,  but the weight of the switch or its mechanisms has nothing to do with having alleviated any pain.


All that's happened, is it's initiated a learning protocol for you to re-train.


Having taught piano for years, I've seen this happen alot..


Many novice players simply press the keys too hard, or hold them down with force (unnecessarily)..


So a common way to improve their technique is to retrain them on a piano or keyboard with slightly different key weight than they're used to.


Once they relearn and adjust their technique, they can go back onto any key weight, and play properly.

I suppose we look at things differently.  From my view, having found switches that let me keep to a standard keyboard is fantastic for me as I'm not limited to simply looking for the ergo style keyboard I want.  The humor is that now that I've found that my problems stem less from the keyboard and more from the mouse, I end up finding a keyboard that's more or less what I want in the Kinesis Freestyle 2.

The hilarity with piano is that I tend to not want to press down on piano keys so much and much prefer lighter keyboard keys to properly weighted piano keys; the piano keys feel too heavy for me and the pressure I want to put on them is not enough for a decent note.  That said, I also play guitar instead, so I really don't have to worry about that and leave the piano playing to the kids.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 22 March 2017, 00:08:57

I suppose we look at things differently.  From my view, having found switches that let me keep to a standard keyboard is fantastic for me as I'm not limited to simply looking for the ergo style keyboard I want.  The humor is that now that I've found that my problems stem less from the keyboard and more from the mouse, I end up finding a keyboard that's more or less what I want in the Kinesis Freestyle 2.

The hilarity with piano is that I tend to not want to press down on piano keys so much and much prefer lighter keyboard keys to properly weighted piano keys; the piano keys feel too heavy for me and the pressure I want to put on them is not enough for a decent note.  That said, I also play guitar instead, so I really don't have to worry about that and leave the piano playing to the kids.



Your problem was not the switch , it was the ways you were using it.

as for mouse..


Evoluent has the highest tenting angle..   So that's why I built my ergopwn 9000..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Data on Wed, 22 March 2017, 06:46:04
Still nothing??

Show Image
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h28oHjxaBvM/UqHFSnf8buI/AAAAAAAACiE/8XnZ4LQygH8/s1600/20131206_topfhandschuherosa_500.jpg)


(http://i.imgur.com/YbcwJMl.gif)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:05:27

I suppose we look at things differently.  From my view, having found switches that let me keep to a standard keyboard is fantastic for me as I'm not limited to simply looking for the ergo style keyboard I want.  The humor is that now that I've found that my problems stem less from the keyboard and more from the mouse, I end up finding a keyboard that's more or less what I want in the Kinesis Freestyle 2.

The hilarity with piano is that I tend to not want to press down on piano keys so much and much prefer lighter keyboard keys to properly weighted piano keys; the piano keys feel too heavy for me and the pressure I want to put on them is not enough for a decent note.  That said, I also play guitar instead, so I really don't have to worry about that and leave the piano playing to the kids.



Your problem was not the switch , it was the ways you were using it.

as for mouse..


Evoluent has the highest tenting angle..   So that's why I built my ergopwn 9000..

Even making use of heavier switch types in the way I use lighter switches wasn't enough help.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on the switches. 

I'll eventually get another mouse but until they can manage to put a good optical or laser sensor into a vertical mouse, I'm probably holding off on those.  Mousing lefty at work since the 90s has done wonders and staying away from WoW helps tremendously as well.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 22 March 2017, 14:52:53

I suppose we look at things differently.  From my view, having found switches that let me keep to a standard keyboard is fantastic for me as I'm not limited to simply looking for the ergo style keyboard I want.  The humor is that now that I've found that my problems stem less from the keyboard and more from the mouse, I end up finding a keyboard that's more or less what I want in the Kinesis Freestyle 2.

The hilarity with piano is that I tend to not want to press down on piano keys so much and much prefer lighter keyboard keys to properly weighted piano keys; the piano keys feel too heavy for me and the pressure I want to put on them is not enough for a decent note.  That said, I also play guitar instead, so I really don't have to worry about that and leave the piano playing to the kids.



Your problem was not the switch , it was the ways you were using it.

as for mouse..


Evoluent has the highest tenting angle..   So that's why I built my ergopwn 9000..

Even making use of heavier switch types in the way I use lighter switches wasn't enough help.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on the switches. 

I'll eventually get another mouse but until they can manage to put a good optical or laser sensor into a vertical mouse, I'm probably holding off on those.  Mousing lefty at work since the 90s has done wonders and staying away from WoW helps tremendously as well.


my ergopwn 9000 has a logitech 3366 sensor..   
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 22 March 2017, 15:27:03
In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

The mouse being in the middle is much more comfortable because the arm naturally rests  pointing inwards.


MANY of the bodily poses you have in front of the computer are Conditioned, rather than natural..


For example...  for you to turn your hands flat to face the keyboard,  THIS is very bad and unnatural a motion for your arms to engage in..


However, because you do it so much, you've gotten used to it..

This is very true but I have grown so used to carpal tunnel & RSI (I'm a carpenter & been swinging a hammer since I was 17) that the whole ergonomic keyboard thing is lost on me. I have been dealing with pain in my arms & wrists well before I became mech KB enthusiast so it probably would behoove me to give at least one a try. The 2 things that stop me are the learning curve especially for gaming since I am SO used to ANSI layout & the price of admission as most ergo boards worth their salt are extremely expensive. The price factor can be overcome now that I've finally started building my own boards but I don't know that I'd ever adjust to an Ergodox for gaming. The VEA may be the best compromise for me if I went ergo, as 65% has become my favorite form factor.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 22 March 2017, 15:30:35

This is very true but I have grown so used to carpal tunnel & RSI (I'm a carpenter & been swinging a hammer since I was 17) that the whole ergonomic keyboard thing is lost on me. I have been dealing with pain in my arms & wrists well before I became mech KB enthusiast so it probably would behoove me to give at least one a try. The 2 things that stop me are the learning curve especially for gaming since I am SO used to ANSI layout & the price of admission as most ergo boards worth their salt are extremely expensive. The price factor can be overcome now that I've finally started building my own boards but I don't know that I'd ever adjust to an Ergodox for gaming. The VEA may be the best compromise for me if I went ergo, as 65% has become my favorite form factor.

Hi Rob..


The Ergodox is fine for gaming..  The only difference is you will have to make some layout adjustments if you're playing a game which utilizes the F-keys a great deal.

If you do go the split route,,  tenting is a must.. 55 degrees..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 22 March 2017, 15:35:24

I suppose we look at things differently.  From my view, having found switches that let me keep to a standard keyboard is fantastic for me as I'm not limited to simply looking for the ergo style keyboard I want.  The humor is that now that I've found that my problems stem less from the keyboard and more from the mouse, I end up finding a keyboard that's more or less what I want in the Kinesis Freestyle 2.

The hilarity with piano is that I tend to not want to press down on piano keys so much and much prefer lighter keyboard keys to properly weighted piano keys; the piano keys feel too heavy for me and the pressure I want to put on them is not enough for a decent note.  That said, I also play guitar instead, so I really don't have to worry about that and leave the piano playing to the kids.



Your problem was not the switch , it was the ways you were using it.

as for mouse..


Evoluent has the highest tenting angle..   So that's why I built my ergopwn 9000..

Even making use of heavier switch types in the way I use lighter switches wasn't enough help.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on the switches. 

I'll eventually get another mouse but until they can manage to put a good optical or laser sensor into a vertical mouse, I'm probably holding off on those.  Mousing lefty at work since the 90s has done wonders and staying away from WoW helps tremendously as well.


my ergopwn 9000 has a logitech 3366 sensor..   

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 22 March 2017, 15:46:34

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 23 March 2017, 00:54:09

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


I've got a working mouse right now and zero inclination to rip another mouse apart.  I'd rather be playing guitar, lifting, going rock climbing, or riding roller coasters with my kids.  Besides, I'll probably snag a Zowie EC-1A for gaming at some point and see how that goes.  Right now, the Logitech G5 is holding out like a boss.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 23 March 2017, 13:29:29

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


I've got a working mouse right now and zero inclination to rip another mouse apart.  I'd rather be playing guitar, lifting, going rock climbing, or riding roller coasters with my kids.  Besides, I'll probably snag a Zowie EC-1A for gaming at some point and see how that goes.  Right now, the Logitech G5 is holding out like a boss.

It's like this..

You have the ground beef,  and you've got the tortilla..

Because of laziness,  you're eating the ground beef and tortilla as is, separately..

The groundbeef is too greasy, and the tortilla is dry and tasteless..



BUT,  had one the Drive to personally improve upon happenstance,  comes forth the TACO..


A perfect combination of Ground beef, and Tortilla..


On this path , we encounter, tomatoes, shredded cheese, horse radish ranch dressing..



AND SO.. our personal worlds roll forward..



The alternative is, one remains a sheep and buys whatever razer tells us to buy..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: digi on Thu, 23 March 2017, 13:31:40

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


I've got a working mouse right now and zero inclination to rip another mouse apart.  I'd rather be playing guitar, lifting, going rock climbing, or riding roller coasters with my kids.  Besides, I'll probably snag a Zowie EC-1A for gaming at some point and see how that goes.  Right now, the Logitech G5 is holding out like a boss.

It's like this..

You have the ground beef,  and you've got the tortilla..

Because of laziness,  you're eating the ground beef and tortilla as is, separately..

The groundbeef is too greasy, and the tortilla is dry and tasteless..



BUT,  had one the Drive to personally improve upon happenstance,  comes forth the TACO..


A perfect combination of Ground beef, and Tortilla..


On this path , we encounter, tomatoes, shredded cheese, horse radish ranch dressing..



AND SO.. our personal worlds roll forward..



The alternative is, one remains a sheep and buys whatever razer tells us to buy..

I just bought a Razer keyboard..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 23 March 2017, 13:33:52

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


I've got a working mouse right now and zero inclination to rip another mouse apart.  I'd rather be playing guitar, lifting, going rock climbing, or riding roller coasters with my kids.  Besides, I'll probably snag a Zowie EC-1A for gaming at some point and see how that goes.  Right now, the Logitech G5 is holding out like a boss.

It's like this..

You have the ground beef,  and you've got the tortilla..

Because of laziness,  you're eating the ground beef and tortilla as is, separately..

The groundbeef is too greasy, and the tortilla is dry and tasteless..



BUT,  had one the Drive to personally improve upon happenstance,  comes forth the TACO..


A perfect combination of Ground beef, and Tortilla..


On this path , we encounter, tomatoes, shredded cheese, horse radish ranch dressing..



AND SO.. our personal worlds roll forward..



The alternative is, one remains a sheep and buys whatever razer tells us to buy..

I just bought a Razer keyboard..

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:18:16

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


I've got a working mouse right now and zero inclination to rip another mouse apart.  I'd rather be playing guitar, lifting, going rock climbing, or riding roller coasters with my kids.  Besides, I'll probably snag a Zowie EC-1A for gaming at some point and see how that goes.  Right now, the Logitech G5 is holding out like a boss.

It's like this..

You have the ground beef,  and you've got the tortilla..

Because of laziness,  you're eating the ground beef and tortilla as is, separately..

The groundbeef is too greasy, and the tortilla is dry and tasteless..



BUT,  had one the Drive to personally improve upon happenstance,  comes forth the TACO..


A perfect combination of Ground beef, and Tortilla..


On this path , we encounter, tomatoes, shredded cheese, horse radish ranch dressing..



AND SO.. our personal worlds roll forward..



The alternative is, one remains a sheep and buys whatever razer tells us to buy..

I just bought a Razer keyboard..

I'm super into mechanical keyboards
(http://i.imgur.com/fLa741R.jpg)
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: digi on Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:24:34
I'm super into mechanical keyboards
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fLa741R.jpg)


APM = Too High
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:42:31
I'm super into mechanical keyboards
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fLa741R.jpg)


APM = Too High

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: digi on Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:45:13
I'm super into mechanical keyboards
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fLa741R.jpg)


APM = Too High

(Attachment Link)

2Tuff!!

Sneakers, Sneakers, Shoes, House Slippers.....got it.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 23 March 2017, 19:29:17
I'm super into mechanical keyboards
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fLa741R.jpg)


APM = Too High

(Attachment Link)

2Tuff!!

Sneakers, Sneakers, Shoes, House Slippers.....got it.



The slipper is an ultimate weapons second only to folding stool on the sacred scroll which lists all ultimate weapons.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 24 March 2017, 00:19:55

That's my point.  I'm hoping we eventually get better ergo gaming mice rather than having to make our own.


You can get it done now, this week, or wait 10 years for someone else to do it..


I've got a working mouse right now and zero inclination to rip another mouse apart.  I'd rather be playing guitar, lifting, going rock climbing, or riding roller coasters with my kids.  Besides, I'll probably snag a Zowie EC-1A for gaming at some point and see how that goes.  Right now, the Logitech G5 is holding out like a boss.

It's like this..

You have the ground beef,  and you've got the tortilla..

Because of laziness,  you're eating the ground beef and tortilla as is, separately..

The groundbeef is too greasy, and the tortilla is dry and tasteless..



BUT,  had one the Drive to personally improve upon happenstance,  comes forth the TACO..


A perfect combination of Ground beef, and Tortilla..


On this path , we encounter, tomatoes, shredded cheese, horse radish ranch dressing..



AND SO.. our personal worlds roll forward..



The alternative is, one remains a sheep and buys whatever razer tells us to buy..

It's a time to value consideration.  I don't get a lot of value out of spending my time on such an endeavor so I see no point in doing such.  Were I more inclined to work in that fashion, I might give it a try but it's not my thing.  Instead, there's plenty of other mice for me to try which are plenty good.

To put it into a food analogy.  I've got the foie gras and the sauternes but I'll be damned if I'm going to make a damn water bath just to cook a terrine.  I'll simply sear the foie gras and enjoy it seared on toast, in a salad, dipped in honey, etc. and drink the sauternes.  Then I'll go buy some foie gras terrine when I want the terrine.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: fatpolomanjr on Fri, 24 March 2017, 02:01:05
This thread is more of a circle jerk than split keyboards ever were IMO.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: fanpeople on Fri, 24 March 2017, 08:51:36
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: ski_ on Wed, 29 March 2017, 19:44:49
I really want to try out an ergodox before I commit to it. I feel like they are impossible to resell if by chance I happen to hate it.  :-X
Come to a meet up-- I always bring mine-- and so do many others.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: ander on Thu, 30 March 2017, 05:24:15
Sometimes I wonder if the people who complain about having to reach for their mice never bothered to learn to use basic things like Tab / Shift+Tab to move from one part of a page to another; shortcuts like Ctrl+L/R and Ctrl+Home/End to move within text; Alt-Tab to switch applications; the Windows/Super key and main-menu search box, and so on, and they're just grabbing their mice for every single thing they do besides typing? ...

It's nice to have a smaller keyboard when playing games...

I don't have time for games. I'm too busy being fabulous.

Also, consider the keyboard waffle iron:


(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3c/8d/c0/3c8dc019a98da515e21d861a00bc30f0.jpg)


It's not available in a split version. I called the developers and asked if they'd consider a more ergonomic format, and they just laughed at me. What does that tell you? Follow the syrup.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 30 March 2017, 05:26:26
Sometimes I wonder if the people who complain about having to reach for their mice never bothered to learn to use basic things like Tab / Shift+Tab to move from one part of a page to another; shortcuts like Ctrl+L/R and Ctrl+Home/End to move within text; Alt-Tab to switch applications; the Windows/Super key and main-menu search box, and so on, and they're just grabbing their mice for every single thing they do besides typing? ...

It's nice to have a smaller keyboard when playing games...

I don't have time for games. I'm too busy being fabulous.

Also, consider the keyboard waffle iron:


Show Image
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3c/8d/c0/3c8dc019a98da515e21d861a00bc30f0.jpg)



It's not available in a split version. I called the developers and asked if they'd consider a more ergonomic format, and they just laughed at me. What does that tell you? Follow the syrup.

/Mistake

That's not a keyboard waffle iron, it's a typewriter waffle iron..
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 30 March 2017, 23:06:02
Dammit, now I'm reminded that I don't have a waffle iron and want one.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:15:49
Dammit, now I'm reminded that I don't have a waffle iron and want one.

I got one, but I never use it..  it's one of those things that you'd think you'd use all the time,  only to realize.. Heck, Ramen's easier and taste better.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:29:02
Dammit, now I'm reminded that I don't have a waffle iron and want one.

I got one, but I never use it..  it's one of those things that you'd think you'd use all the time,  only to realize.. Heck, Ramen's easier and taste better.


I have a daughter that would love to be making waffles on the weekends for breakfast or brunch.  It would definitely get use.  Might have to find a decent one on Amazon now.
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:36:13
Dammit, now I'm reminded that I don't have a waffle iron and want one.

I got one, but I never use it..  it's one of those things that you'd think you'd use all the time,  only to realize.. Heck, Ramen's easier and taste better.


I have a daughter that would love to be making waffles on the weekends for breakfast or brunch.  It would definitely get use.  Might have to find a decent one on Amazon now.

I was very enthusiastic week 1 and 2,   THEN lazy relapsed. ~~!
Title: Re: Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:42:34
Dammit, now I'm reminded that I don't have a waffle iron and want one.

I got one, but I never use it..  it's one of those things that you'd think you'd use all the time,  only to realize.. Heck, Ramen's easier and taste better.


I have a daughter that would love to be making waffles on the weekends for breakfast or brunch.  It would definitely get use.  Might have to find a decent one on Amazon now.

I was very enthusiastic week 1 and 2,   THEN lazy relapsed. ~~!

I'm lucky in that I would have external influence over making the waffles.  I also have a pretty decent little sous chef so we'd probably get decent usage out of one.  We had one before and used it over several years before it died out.  The kids have never experienced it, though, so we're probably due for one anyway.