Are split boards the circlejerk keyboards of 2016-17?

[noisyturtle]

They sure seem to have become really popular with a lot of people all of a sudden.

[heedpantsnow]

I thought they were a couple years ago. Are you talking about stuff like Ergodox and the one massdrop ran so many of?

[davkol]

The market with ergonomic peripherals exploded in the 1990s, and even though a lot of it didn't survive the 2000s (due to funding issues, dot-com collapse etc.), plenty of people stuck with MS Natural keyboards and enjoyed their benefits.

It's just that "mechanical" keyboards have become widespread enough, that making such ergonomic keyboards is financially manageable now and obviously there are more people making them.

[dante]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

[HPE1000]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

I just dont get the 40% hype in the first place. 60% is actually a layout that doesn't restrict you much compared to tkl or full size in terms of functionality. 40% is just a tad bit smaller and so much harder to use, you essentially have to relearn to type on it.

[davkol]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

You might find the illustration from Kinesis helpful…



addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

[henz]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

You might find the illustration from Kinesis helpful…

Show Image

addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

Just put your arrow cluster somewhere else?

[fatpolomanjr]

Some of us have actual wrist pain issues for which a split / ergonomic keyboard are really nice to have. I was using a TEX Yoda 60% as my daily driver but that jacked my wrists up pretty bad with some awful RSI. Now I simply can't go back to standard, non-split keyboards.

40% keyboards are not for everyone, but they are surprisingly viable for daily use. Especially with the default 2 function layers, such as the planck or let's split Lower and Raise, and the optional reprogramming of Enter to Shift (hold) + Enter (tap) or the left ESC to CTRL (hold) + ESC (tap).

I can't get behind 30% at all. IMO that is either insane or just a novelty. Those keyboards annoy me in the same way 40% keyboards (along with even artisan keycaps and custom $100+ keysets) used to annoy me, and possibly annoy OP and other die-hard TKL or 60% and larger keyboard users. My thoughts were always "Is everyone just in on some kind of circlejerk that I am unaware of?" But this was during my early days of my first mech, a KBP V80 TKL, in which a single artisan or an entire keyset costing more than my keyboard itself sounded really dumb. I've since sold it and assembled an Atreus 62 with mod-m switches, toothy fugus, and nantucket selectric, so I guess I am in on the circlejerk now...

[tp4tissue]

The Ergodox is Superior to all other keyboards because of the following reasons.


--TENTING angle up to 55 Degrees is possible without major modification

--Completely eliminates Wrist related Repetitive stress pains

--Fully programmable keys,

--Multi layer key programmability

--Open programmability down to firmware level

--Split layout

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)



Mild drawbacks..

Could use an extra top row of keys..

[henz]

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)

Wtf do you mean? Are you biting your lip the least when your using blues?

[HPE1000]

The Ergodox is Superior to all other keyboards because of the following reasons.


--TENTING angle up to 55 Degrees is possible without major modification

--Completely eliminates Wrist related Repetitive stress pains

--Fully programmable keys,

--Multi layer key programmability

--Open programmability down to firmware level

--Split layout

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)



Mild drawbacks..

Could use an extra top row of keys..

You ever going to post a picture of your ergodox? lol

[tp4tissue]

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)

Wtf do you mean? Are you biting your lip the least when your using blues?

hahah, naw, i've just repurposed that word, it's clear from context what I mean.

[tp4tissue]

You ever going to post a picture of your ergodox? lol

Ergodox fotos are for Tp4 inner circle exclusives.

[Puddsy]

Split keyboards solve the mouse space issue. I think they'll be around for a while.

[tp4tissue]

Split keyboards solve the mouse space issue. I think they'll be around for a while.

it's not just that. 

they solve all of the problems with flat keyboards in general..

Flat is a problem..

[heedpantsnow]

The Ergodox is Superior to all other keyboards because of the following reasons.


--TENTING angle up to 55 Degrees is possible without major modification

--Completely eliminates Wrist related Repetitive stress pains

--Fully programmable keys,

--Multi layer key programmability

--Open programmability down to firmware level

--Split layout

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)



Mild drawbacks..

Could use an extra top row of keys..

Tp is always "tenting" when he starts to think about his ergodox...

[digi]

You can keep your split keyboards, I'm here for the circlejerk.

[henz]

--Cherry MX (mx Blue is the least fricative switch on the market)

Wtf do you mean? Are you biting your lip the least when your using blues?

hahah, naw, i've just repurposed that word, it's clear from context what I mean.

I have no idea what you meant, you like it?

[OfTheWild]

I thought everyone was on an ortholinear kick... but yeah, splits seem to be coming back in style.

[happylacquer]

Now that businesses are going wild buying their employees Freestyles, yeah.

[tp4tissue]

I thought everyone was on an ortholinear kick... but yeah, splits seem to be coming back in style.

It's inevitable..  one day,  we will look upon flat keyboards as classics..   but they are simply NOT practical for extended daily use, the Split Tented boards are superior in every way.

[happylacquer]

I am bad with them because I move them around obsessing over the perfect split angle than doing work 

[tp4tissue]

I am bad with them because I move them around obsessing over the perfect split angle than doing work 

well tenting should go as high as possible..

as for placement on the desk relative to your hands..   that's not such an issue, because you'll have to move it eventually..   it's never going to stay in once place..


For example, if you have lots to type. you might put the both halves dead center, and keep the mouse on the right.



But if you're playing a game, or doing cad,  you would split the halves to two sides, so you have more comfortable access to the mouse in the middle.


The important take away here is that THIS IS POSSIBLE with a split keyboard..   a Flat one piece keyboard on top of being detrimental to your hands, is also just not versatile to the Variety of Computer Tasks that modern people work through.

[OfTheWild]

I really want to try out an ergodox before I commit to it. I feel like they are impossible to resell if by chance I happen to hate it. 

[ArchDill]

I think 65% and 75% boards will be.


OR


SPLIT 65%-75% LIKE THE VE.A

[Sifo]

no that's still topre

[happylacquer]

In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

[Niomosy]

Glad to see some more split ANSI boards out there with F-rows.  Keep 'em coming.

[Air tree]

no that's still topre

The topre circlejerk will not stop until every person on planet earth owns a topre board and likes it.

[algernon]

In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

I'm using a trackball in the middle of the two halves of my ErgoDox (and soon Keyboardio). I have more space on the desk this way, and I can use the trackball with either of my hands. If it would be on the side, it would only be usable by one hand. It's a very sweet setup.

[tp4tissue]

In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

The mouse being in the middle is much more comfortable because the arm naturally rests  pointing inwards.


MANY of the bodily poses you have in front of the computer are Conditioned, rather than natural..


For example...  for you to turn your hands flat to face the keyboard,  THIS is very bad and unnatural a motion for your arms to engage in..


However, because you do it so much, you've gotten used to it..

[heedpantsnow]

I can tent two 60% boards...

[tp4tissue]

I can tent two 60% boards...

no you can't  the latency between two keyboards over usb is unpredictable

[heedpantsnow]

I can tent two 60% boards...

no you can't  the latency between two keyboards over usb is unpredictable

Ah, that's probably true...

[falkentyne]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

I just dont get the 40% hype in the first place. 60% is actually a layout that doesn't restrict you much compared to tkl or full size in terms of functionality. 40% is just a tad bit smaller and so much harder to use, you essentially have to relearn to type on it.

TKL keyboards make sense because typewriters didn't have number keypads.  Those were invented on Terminals and used on the original IBM PC's extensively too (including the full size model F).But if you have the room for it, full size keyboard that have macro capability make a lot of sense (if you have room) because you can turn the entire number keypad into macros and media keys.
60% is more of a PC novelty but is nice to carry around with laptops.  40%...don't get me started.

[digi]

I can tent two 60% boards...

no you can't  the latency between two keyboards over usb is unpredictable

Ah, that's probably true...

haha

[chyros]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

You might find the illustration from Kinesis helpful…

Show Image

addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.

[exitfire401]

They sure seem to have become really popular with a lot of people all of a sudden.

Can't be. Tp4 isn't constantly spam posting about any of the others.

[Niomosy]

I'm just waiting for a split 122 board

[davkol]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

You might find the illustration from Kinesis helpful…

Show Image

addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.

Which leads to poor posture (shoulder, neck) and longer distance between the main section and the mouse (that's why trackpoint exists btw). High sensitivity is not quite suitable for certain use cases… But then again, I doubt you care about any of that, if you press the spacebar with an index finger.

[chyros]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

You might find the illustration from Kinesis helpful…

Show Image

addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.

Which leads to poor posture (shoulder, neck) and longer distance between the main section and the mouse (that's why trackpoint exists btw). High sensitivity is not quite suitable for certain use cases… But then again, I doubt you care about any of that, if you press the spacebar with an index finger.

Show Image

Correct, my posture is terrible and I basically just lie down in my chair. I couldn't live without high sensitivity though, my laser mouse finally broke a few weeks ago and I had to make do with an optical one for two weeks before a new one arrived. The low sensitivity actually felt really fatiguing when mousing around, and it's almost unusable for gaming I found because you just get so slow, everyone out-aims you.

[xtrafrood]

Twenty years in the making. Back in 2005, I purchased a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 from WALMART ...

Kinesis Advantage: Men In Black (1997), Contact (1997), Flubber (1997)





The Expanse (2016-2017)





The Expanse (2016-2017)

The 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse and Icy Dock Black Vortex external HDD/SDD enclosure were featured in The Expanse. It's only a manner of time...

[davkol]

Correct, my posture is terrible and I basically just lie down in my chair. I couldn't live without high sensitivity though, my laser mouse finally broke a few weeks ago and I had to make do with an optical one for two weeks before a new one arrived. The low sensitivity actually felt really fatiguing when mousing around, and it's almost unusable for gaming I found because you just get so slow, everyone out-aims you.

I thought you had Logitech M500. If that's the case, the tracking is _very_ inconsistent (due to in-mouse postprocessing) and the resolution is only 1000 dpi AFAIK.

Modern optical sensors, such as PWM 3310, can do much better, even at 3000 dpi. In fact, they're slightly better than A9800 (the laser sensor, that's overused in gaming mice, due to its high max resolution). Currently perhaps the best sensor, PWM 3366 used in the latest gaming Logitech mice, is optical and can consistently manage 12000 dpi (although it probably isn't useful, unless someone is already adopting 8k monitors).

On a different note, you might be surprised by low sensitivity common among pro Counter Strike players.

[FoC_Tow]

I'm struggling with the compact crowd that is "FOURTY SIXTY PERCENT%%%% FOR LIFE!" because they can't stand anything bigger.  So then you throw split into the mix and now their setup is near identical in width to that of a full size and they love it.  WTF.

You might find the illustration from Kinesis helpful…

Show Image

addendum: Kinesis Advantage (or ErgoDox) is about the width of a tenkeyless keyboard, but with wrists/arms in a pretty neutral position. If there's place in the middle, it can be used for the pointing device too.

That picture kind of shows why I don't mind >100% keyboards :p . If that is the amount of space you guys have with a 104-key keyboard, I REALLY don't see the problem. I use my mouse with a pretty high sensitivity, and basically my wrist doesn't move when I use my mouse, neither when just mousing around or during gaming. It doesn't move more than one or two centimetres in any direction at any time, basically.

Which leads to poor posture (shoulder, neck) and longer distance between the main section and the mouse (that's why trackpoint exists btw). High sensitivity is not quite suitable for certain use cases… But then again, I doubt you care about any of that, if you press the spacebar with an index finger.

Show Image

Correct, my posture is terrible and I basically just lie down in my chair. I couldn't live without high sensitivity though, my laser mouse finally broke a few weeks ago and I had to make do with an optical one for two weeks before a new one arrived. The low sensitivity actually felt really fatiguing when mousing around, and it's almost unusable for gaming I found because you just get so slow, everyone out-aims you.

Extreme high sensitivity like you describe is far from ideal for any skill based fps shooter.

You're being outamed because you're too lazy/not used to move your mouse quick enough for more then 2cm while laying in your chair, not because it's too slow.

No offense, there will always be people playing high sense, just had to correct the opposite being unusable.

[kasakka]

I'm happy that more split keyboards are coming to the market as well as split-spacebar options. To me it makes little sense to have a huge spacebar. I used the Zboard back in the day and even though you could not have different keys in that area, just hitting the smaller space was more pleasant.

I've even contemplated if I could hack my Satan GH60 plate and run some wires to unused key slots to turn it into a split-spacebar keyboard.

As for ergonomics, moving to a 60% keyboard was good for me, I feel I have less strain on both of my hands and I like the layout. I use one for both home and work and will hopefully have a Ultimate Hacking Keyboard when it gets released.

[opensecret]

In what situation does anyone benefit from having a mouse in the middle of where the keyboard is? I never understood this. I can't imagine it being practical

It depends on the mouse.  I'm not a fan of split keyboards (though I'm familiar with tp4tissue's advocacy on this issue), but I'm a big fan of the Contour Rollermouse, which puts the mouse functions right in front of the spacebar at the center of the keyboard.  Downside is that they cost more than most keyboards.
http://www.contourdesign.com/US/product/rollermouse-pro2/

Opinion on split keyboards is, well, split.  Some argue that how you type (for example, avoid bending your wrists, don't slam the keys) is more important than what you type on.  Taveira and Choi (2009) report that “available research does not provide yet conclusive evidence that split keyboards reduce the risk of long-term discomfort or injury,”  though “some users suffering from hand-wrist pain may experience improvement”  by switching to a split keyboard.  On the other hand, research also suggests that typing is slower on split boards and some people have difficulty adjusting to them.

I think this means that, if you are having pain, it’s well worth trying a split board.  If you’re not and all is going fine, type on boards that work for you.  I type a lot, and I’ve been typing on unified boards for slightly more than 60 years (originally on manual typewriters). I sometimes get arthritic pain in my knees and ankles, but typing is still pain-free. Maybe all that exercise has been good for me.
 

[tp4tissue]

I think this means that, if you are having pain, it’s well worth trying a split board.  If you’re not and all is going fine, type on boards that work for you.  I type a lot, and I’ve been typing on unified boards for slightly more than 60 years (originally on manual typewriters). I sometimes get arthritic pain in my knees and ankles, but typing is still pain-free. Maybe all that exercise has been good for me.
 

Best example, the custom keyboard used for manual letter sorting.  It's just a person typing in address of poorly penned envelopes that the auto-scan machine was not able to read.

That keyboard is a tented keyboard

There is a very functional reason, a keyboard is tented, and the keys are non staggered..


Once you reach the level of truly intense keyboard use, ALL DAY level.. this design is the MOST OPTIMAL..



For the majority of users however,  they are plebs in the sense that facebook and dota are the only things they do on the pc..    While they could still benefit from a tented split keyboard,    the benefits to them is much less, because their actual usage is so low.


NONE of that changes the fact that We've KNOWN for a long time, How an OPTIMAL keyboard should be built..


ERGODOX is the most modern iteration on the market which comes from that ergonomic tradition and has NUMEROUS improvements.


Going by Fire Emblem Heroes Tiers,, 

Ergodox is an S+ Tier keyboard..


All your kmacs are fundamentally C-Tier boards.  You can collect them if you like, but they're gilded rubbish.

[nmur]

You ever going to post a picture of your ergodox? lol

Ergodox fotos are for Tp4 inner circle exclusives.

[NamelessPFG]

I couldn't care less about any perceived circlejerking, but the generally exorbitant prices on ErgoDoxes and similar boards have kept me out of the club for something I've wanted to try out for a few years. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge Kickstarter may have given me a way in, though; managed to snap up a First Edition MX Blue board before the slots filled up.

See, what I want is a keyboard that doesn't suck to use when there isn't enough contiguous space in the center because it's taken up by things like touchscreen monitors, racing wheels and/or flight yokes. Every single simpit build I've seen with a conventional contiguous keyboard fails at this, and yet there's a simple solution in sight to anyone who's glanced down in an Elite: Dangerous cockpit and noted these decorative control panels above the pilot's legs, in between the HOTAS.

Also, think about it. Our hands aren't glued together; there's no reason to have to bring them next to each other to type if each hand's half of the keyboard is in a sensibly ergonomic position.

The only problem with going through with all that? Lack of split keyboard options, specifically affordable ones, like I said earlier. This is something that could take off if the prices came down to under $150 in general, maybe even $100 for fully-assembled board sets.

[Sissy]

Cant say I'm a fan of the way they look thats for sure