Custom Manufacturing in China

[pixelpusher]

I just finished reading the Noxary x60 update with the bad news and photos from sloppy manufacturing.  Just wondering how other GB runners can avoid such issues in the future.  Why do the manufacturers stay nameless?  Can we not find a quality manufacturer or 2 and stick with them?  Is that cost prohibitive?  Is that just not how it works in China?  Just wondering.  I see people with great ideas running in IC, but this kind of news and photos must be disheartening to new board makers. 

[tp4tissue]

what photos ? i don't see it on their main page.


nm,  found it...   



Quality check is cost prohibitive,   even from the contractual perspective.  Because you need an intermediary to hold the funds, (to be released on completion and quality satisfaction.

and the Product has to be CHECKED before shipment by a 3rd party in the country of origin, intermediaries can usually point you to some sort of service for that.


But this assurance will all add to cost..

[algernon]

Judging by the things Keyboardio ran into (they are also manufacturing in China), one of the biggest reason for sloppy manufacturing is the chinese "good enough" mentality: if it is okayish, not up to spec, perhaps, but okay-ish, it will be good enough. It is not a big deal when you look at all the little pieces, but when you require a number of components, and they are all "good enough", that will be a bigger problem. And most factories don't do everything themselves, but source components from various vendors, with varying qualities. So just sticking to a good manufacturer is not going to work, because they are still going to source some components from elsewhere.

Creating hardware is a kind of an art form, which pretty much requires you - or someone who can pay attention to details, and has the power to say no - to be on site quite a lot, until things get rolling, and all issues are ironed out, all questions answered. You can't trust assurances, because due to cultural differences, when you say perfect, you mean 100% on-spec. They may very well mean 75%, and honestly believe that you are talking about the same thing.

Mind you, this is just my impression I gathered from Keyboardio's adventures, and a number of other people who manufacture in China.

[tp4tissue]

Judging by the things Keyboardio ran into (they are also manufacturing in China), one of the biggest reason for sloppy manufacturing is the chinese "good enough" mentality: if it is okayish, not up to spec, perhaps, but okay-ish, it will be good enough. It is not a big deal when you look at all the little pieces, but when you require a number of components, and they are all "good enough", that will be a bigger problem. And most factories don't do everything themselves, but source components from various vendors, with varying qualities. So just sticking to a good manufacturer is not going to work, because they are still going to source some components from elsewhere.

Creating hardware is a kind of an art form, which pretty much requires you - or someone who can pay attention to details, and has the power to say no - to be on site quite a lot, until things get rolling, and all issues are ironed out, all questions answered. You can't trust assurances, because due to cultural differences, when you say perfect, you mean 100% on-spec. They may very well mean 75%, and honestly believe that you are talking about the same thing.

Mind you, this is just my impression I gathered from Keyboardio's adventures, and a number of other people who manufacture in China.

Hahahahaha

In the end,  every party is trying to keep as much of the profit as possible..   


If you as the importer do not take into account to properly budget and CONTRACT for the quality check stage,  then that's your oversight..



It's ALWAYS a "good enough mentality" no matter WHERE you manufacture/ buy from.



I say this not as a defense for China makers,    more to educated you on the facts..  If you believe you could take the same sloppy group buy routines,  to another country,  and ASSUME they'll do a better job,  you will likely run into the SAME problems.




That's the inherent flaw in group buy and group buy organizers,    they're just beginners at this

[1391406]

Why not use Alibaba to find manufacturers? Alibaba offers 100% payment protection. All funds are held in escrow and only released to the supplier / manufacturer if the buyer is satisfied.

[algernon]

In the end,  every party is trying to keep as much of the profit as possible..   

I don't think it is about keeping profits in this case. And there's nothing wrong with the mentality, either. It works wonderfully for a lot of things, and it certainly makes a busy, stressful life a lot less busy and stressful, and that's a huge win.

If you as the importer do not take into account to properly budget and CONTRACT for the quality check stage,  then that's your oversight..

Well, there were cases where there was a QC stage, contract at all. The product that came out of it was still... not quite right. Even if money was not lost due to a contract that protected the designer/developer/whatever against the factory, time was lost.  And when you run into delays over and over again, people will - rightfully - ask for refunds.

In other words, proper budget and contract is no guarantee you won't end up losing big time. They are a safety measure everyone should take, but no silver bullet.

It's ALWAYS a "good enough mentality" no matter WHERE you manufacture/ buy from.

There's a difference between "good enough because we want profits" and "good enough because we honestly believe it is good enough". The former happen everywhere, the latter I have rarely seen in Europe. Here, it is pretty much always the money...

If you believe you could take the same sloppy group buy routines,  to another country,  and ASSUME they'll do a better job,  you will likely run into the SAME problems.

There's a reason I'm not participating in GBs Naivity and lack of experience on the part of the runners is one of the bigger reasons.

[pixelpusher]

All good discussions. Thanks for the insight, all.

I'm truly fascinated with the process and Chinese manufacturing culture in general.  I know so little but it seems amazing to me.