Author Topic: Mech KB for fast typist? (Read 5872 times)

Mithy · « **on:** Thu, 08 February 2018, 03:47:42 »

Hi guys and gals,

I'd really like your input to help me choose what keyboard to get to replace my very old Logitech G110 with a broken space bar.
I game quite a bit but also type 150+ wpm on average with top speeds a little over 200 and the typing aspect is very important to me.

For the past 12 years or so I've been using a G110 and G15 which felt identical. The only reason I got the G110 is that my G15 got stolen. I've been researching switches but I don't trust recommendations about typing as I may be a different kind of customer there.

My friend has a G910 which I find grossly over sized but most importantly when I'm at his place I find myself making much more mistakes, and I'm not sure whether it's because of acclimation or because the actuation is so easy on it. Basically, I touch other keys slightly and they input. I'm worried because the G610 (brown?) and G Pro have really caught my eye and if Romer-G or MX brown aren't great for typing, then I'll regret it. I'm a big fan of Logitech products in general (and have only had great experiences with their customer support) which is why I've focused on these (besides, I think the RGB on Romer-G's is stunning). If it's an acclimation issue, then the short trials at stores really won't help me decide.

I've read abundantly that Cherry Blues are great for typing but not so for gaming. Is that true? Also, I'm not sure I want to hear (and others to hear) me spamming keys while gaming if it's very loud. On top of it, there are very few 'neat looking'/cheap keyboards I'm finding with them, especially from a brand I trust as much as Logitech. I've read that the greens are essentially the same but with more force required. Perhaps that would be good for my heavy fingers? But worse yet, I don't think I've seen one keyboard with greens yet in my search. I have no idea what the force with my G110 membrane might be for comparison.

I'd like to get rid of the bulk and go with a TKL, ideally. And I can't imagine going with a linear switch, since I'm somewhat rough with the keyboard and need that resistance bump. I'm also a bit of a sucker for the gorgeous G Pro RGB lighting...

Long story short: I love Logitech and their RGB, I game and type a lot, I press rather hard, I would like a TKL keyboard, I'd like to know how Romer-G and MX browns do for typing fast, and further info about blues vs greens. Edit: What about the clears? But as with the greens, I have not yet seen a nice keyboard with them, especially TKL.

PLEASE HELP! Thanks

Additional info: I live in Canada. Presently can order G610 for 90$ and G Pro for 150$ CAD.

Deefenestrate · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 08 February 2018, 09:06:42 »

Blues are fast.

MGMorden · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 08 February 2018, 09:17:23 »

To me, Romer-G's are NOT good for typing. I've got a Logitech K840 that I got essentially to try them out for a bit at work and I have two complaints - one minor and one major:

Minor: The tactility is minimal. Its there, but when typing fast it almost feels like a linear switch.
Major: The activation force is too light. Like most touch typists then I'm just "waiting" between typing things I keep my hands on the keyboard home keys. I've found on countless occasions that just the wait of my hands there will end up pressing a key that I didn't intent to press.

As for Cherry Blue's: They're OK. Better than the Romer-G's for sure but the click is annoying and unsatisfying. The activation force is only slightly higher than the Romer-G's and lower than I prefer, but it's high enough that I've never noticed myself just accidentally pressing keys like with the Romer-G's.

So far my favorite keyboard to type on is a Unicomp "Classic Black Buckling Spring USB":

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40P4A

It's quite similar to an original Model M but with a smaller bezel, native USB, and Windows keys added.

I also really like the Matias Tactile Pro as well though the PC version has apparently been recently discontinued (still a few in stock here and there though).

I'm currently working on a project with some of the new Kailh Box clicky switches which I have high hopes for however until I get it finished I don't have any experience typing on them.

pixelpusher · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 08 February 2018, 09:23:57 »

I type fastest on light switches. If you’re going with cherry I would say use blue for click or red for linear. If you can pick up a board with Gateron switches, blacks are very nicely weighted for fast typing as well.

Mithy · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 03:31:18 »

Hey guys, thanks for your replies!
One reason I doubt light switches would work for me is that I actually type with only 2x2 fingers (other than spacebar and shift) which means I have to move around a lot and
potentially mi**** a lot of keys.
MGMorden, the buckling spring design is intriguing and I'd never seen it. It might be very pleasant, but that keyboard is just too big, heavy and plain for me. Also you said that Romer-G actuation was way too low but it's stated to be the same as what I've seen of the Blues or Browns, in which case I'm SOL, because I cannot find an affordable stylish TKL with clears or greens...
I'm going back to the store tomorrow to try everything they have but I don't think they'll have clears or greens, sadly.
Maybe I'm just overthinking this. It's not like I gave it a second though when I got this G110...
Mithy

Giorgio · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 03:43:28 »

It's very easy to understand what switch you need.

Put some cents- nickels on your esc keycap (after managing to keep the keyboard horizontal by adding some spacers underneath it) and annotate when the keycap starts moving (easier to see than to explain it), and how many pennies do you need to bottom out.

Please post the results in grams and we'll tell you which switch is closer to what you already have.

Remember that a switch that appears to be light enough, after a long session of typing will probably appear too heavy. I type a lot and I absolutely need cherry mx reds with o-rings. Otherwise the Cherry mx reds in the silent variant add a few grams which for me ruin the show, they are too heavy.

cent 2.5 grams
nickel 5 grams

Giorgio · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 03:45:56 »

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46141.0

Deefenestrate · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 08:57:33 »

Make sure it is a new penny.

Quote

New, unused or uncirculated copper cents weigh about 3.11 grams each or about 145 copper pennies per pound. New zinc cents are much lighter and weigh only 2.5 grams each yielding about 180 zinc pennies in a pound. And there are about 80 uncirculated quarters in a pound.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:04:10 »

Quote from: Deefenestrate on Fri, 09 February 2018, 08:57:33

Make sure it is a new penny.

Quote
New, unused or uncirculated copper cents weigh about 3.11 grams each
New zinc cents are much lighter and weigh only 2.5 grams each

The US changed the composition of cent coins mid-year in 1982. Older ones are "copper" (bronze) and newer ones are zinc.

moh18one · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:20:29 »

Realforce RGB = Perfection

metalliqaz · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:34:32 »

You really may want to try a Realforce. They are the classic "typist's keyboard"

If you are regularly typing at 200 wpm, that would place you among the fastest typists in the world. You should post a video.

Giorgio · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 10:14:05 »

Quote from: metalliqaz on Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:34:32

You really may want to try a Realforce. They are the classic "typist's keyboard"

If you are regularly typing at 200 wpm, that would place you among the fastest typists in the world. You should post a video.

Imagine what he could do if he used all 10 fingers!!

Are we sure that he didn't mean characters per minute? 1 word = 5 characters

Hyde · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 11:18:16 »

Quote from: metalliqaz on Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:34:32

You really may want to try a Realforce. They are the classic "typist's keyboard"

If you are regularly typing at 200 wpm, that would place you among the fastest typists in the world. You should post a video.

I second this, if you're used to rubber dome and can type really fast on rubber dome, Realforce is like rubber dome but better and smoother.

Though I don't know if you want to drop that much money right off the bat on Realforce RGB if you've never tried Topre before, I'd recommend start with Type Heaven.

Personally I don't like variable Realforce so I'd not recommend the regular Realforce, make sure you get something 45g uniform.

Side Note: I don't recommend MX Blue for fast typing, the reset is too slow if you need to repeat letters. If anything MX Brown might be ok or even try Matias Quiet Pro (quiet ALPS).

Puddsy · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 09 February 2018, 12:05:41 »

Quote from: metalliqaz on Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:34:32

You really may want to try a Realforce. They are the classic "typist's keyboard"

If you are regularly typing at 200 wpm, that would place you among the fastest typists in the world. You should post a video.

ya pretty much this

but any mech will be fine

Altis · « **Reply #14 on:** Sat, 10 February 2018, 00:16:16 »

Quote from: metalliqaz on Fri, 09 February 2018, 09:34:32

You really may want to try a Realforce. They are the classic "typist's keyboard"

If you are regularly typing at 200 wpm, that would place you among the fastest typists in the world. You should post a video.

+1.

Of all the boards I have, 45g Topre is noticeably faster and more accurate for me. I rarely accidentally press adjacent keys, the tactility can be felt even at high speeds (where most just start to feel like linears)... and still sounds normal at 130+ WPM, whereas most mechs start to sound like a demolition zone.

Another that I'm surprisingly fast on is the Apple wireless board... very snappy and short throw, but the flat keys take me time to adjust to before I can get back to full speed.

Polymer · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 10 February 2018, 07:58:31 »

Realforce would be good for typists....Variable is good if you use "proper" form...probably terrible if you use 2 fingers on each side.

Would love to see 200wpm like this though....I would be very skeptical but would be cool to see on video if true...

carmenohio · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun, 11 February 2018, 13:53:46 »

Quote from: Polymer on Sat, 10 February 2018, 07:58:31

Realforce would be good for typists....Variable is good if you use "proper" form...probably terrible if you use 2 fingers on each side.

Would love to see 200wpm like this though....I would be very skeptical but would be cool to see on video if true...

Agree, I don't see how it's even possible to type 200 wpm using 2 just fingers on each hand. That's about twice as fast as an experienced touch typist using proper form.

Giorgio · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun, 11 February 2018, 14:02:04 »

Quote from: carmenohio on Sun, 11 February 2018, 13:53:46

Quote from: Polymer on Sat, 10 February 2018, 07:58:31
Realforce would be good for typists....Variable is good if you use "proper" form...probably terrible if you use 2 fingers on each side.

Would love to see 200wpm like this though....I would be very skeptical but would be cool to see on video if true...

Agree, I don't see how it's even possible to type 200 wpm using 2 just fingers on each hand. That's about twice as fast as an experienced touch typist using proper form.

OP can't tell wpm from cpm

Mithy · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 12 February 2018, 20:02:31 »

Hi guys,

First of all, please relax on the typing speed, I didn't enter that number to start a competition. Yes I press all letters with 2x2 fingers but I said my average is 150+ not 200. Yes I have reached 200 but it's not very relevant. Please don't take me for an idiot as if I didn't know the difference between a word and a letter. That being said, I really appreciate your real advice!
carmenohio , it is definitely possible but I didn't come here for this.
Giorgio , I stacked 27 pennies before the key was pressed so about 65-70g. I'm pretty open to less force though. Also your sarcasm was not that great :/ but I appreciate the tip for sure!
Starting with Hyde... watching LOTS of reviews I'm VERY seduced by the Topre realforce/type heaven. I just can't find a place for it in Canada or Montreal specifically. MK.com have them but their delivery is very expensive and Type Heaven is out of stock. After deliberation I'm not quite ready to dish out 240$ USD + heavy shipping for the RGB just yet lol. I would've bought the Type Heaven for sure, even though the adjustable actuation distance on the RGB seems like a DREAAAAAAAM to me. I could set middle keys on 3 and never mi****...
On top of that, all this shopping around and researching has enlightened me as to how deficient my current keyboard is, broken spacebar not included... The keys are wobbly as hell, and yes they're probably heavier than need be...
Basically I'm dreaming of a Topre now but I think I'm forced to go with a brown switch that will relatively fill my needs. I think I was going crazy enough to buy the Realforce RGB (with 45g throughout) but the shipping slowed my enthusiasm, lol.
Unless you guys can help me get Topre in Montreal I think this thread is done. I really appreciate your advice, all of you!!! I definitely know what I want now

Mithy

tp4tissue · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 12 February 2018, 21:39:48 »

150wpm with 4 fingers total..

What are you typing fjfjfjfjfffffjjjjj ??

futurecrime · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 13 February 2018, 22:44:44 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 February 2018, 21:39:48

150wpm with 4 fingers total..

What are you typing fjfjfjfjfffffjjjjj ??

Meyvn · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 14 February 2018, 09:01:48 »

Personally, the lighter the switch, the faster I am. Plum EC keyboards so far are my fastest, at 140 wpm. I’m significantly slower on my beloved BOX Jades (125.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kavik · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 14 February 2018, 13:07:40 »

Buckling springs are satisfying to type on, but it's not fast IMO.

Cherry MX Blues are not very satisfying to type on, but I've set all my typing test records with them for what it's worth (my highest is only 114 WPM though). I'd probably like greens more. Blues really aren't terrible for gaming. Supposedly the hysteresis affects the speed of quick successive keypresses. But hysteresis also supposedly makes typing less error prone.

But I agree with the opinion to try Topre. It's probably the closest to what you're used to. I've heard Topre isn't very responsive in games also, but I can't speak from experience.

I've not tried browns outside of a switch tester, but I am not impressed with them. Romer-G sucks from my brief in-store trial.

I'd say get what you want now instead of settling for a stopgap in the meantime. You'll end up spending more money in the long run getting two boards.

carmenohio · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 14 February 2018, 16:46:12 »

Quote from: Mithy on Mon, 12 February 2018, 20:02:31

First of all, please relax on the typing speed, I didn't enter that number to start a competition. Yes I press all letters with 2x2 fingers but I said my average is 150+ not 200. Yes I have reached 200 but it's not very relevant. Please don't take me for an idiot as if I didn't know the difference between a word and a letter. That being said, I really appreciate your real advice!
carmenohio , it is definitely possible but I didn't come here for this.

Hey Mithy, I'm not looking to start an argument with you at all. I'm just extremely skeptical that it's possible to type that fast with 4 fingers total, because even 100 wpm is approximately top 0.25% percentile and that's usually with proper form (source: https://typing-speed-test.aoeu.eu/). If you have reached 200 wpm, then you're close to being the fastest typist in the world and using improper technique to boot. Post a video if you want to prove people wrong, but until then people here will remain skeptical of your claims.

futurecrime · « **Reply #24 on:** Wed, 14 February 2018, 19:50:02 »

derb2k2 · « **Reply #25 on:** Wed, 14 February 2018, 19:53:50 »

just be careful with switches lighter than 45g since you'll probably have more errors due to lighter actuation. I tend to drag my fingers from key to key and sometimes I'll press a key down enough to actuate it.

Giorgio · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 15 February 2018, 07:30:38 »

troll, stop wasting our time, thanks

Hyde · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 15 February 2018, 12:39:59 »

Quote from: Mithy on Mon, 12 February 2018, 20:02:31

Starting with Hyde... watching LOTS of reviews I'm VERY seduced by the Topre realforce/type heaven. I just can't find a place for it in Canada or Montreal specifically. MK.com have them but their delivery is very expensive and Type Heaven is out of stock. After deliberation I'm not quite ready to dish out 240$ USD + heavy shipping for the RGB just yet lol. I would've bought the Type Heaven for sure, even though the adjustable actuation distance on the RGB seems like a DREAAAAAAAM to me. I could set middle keys on 3 and never mi****...
On top of that, all this shopping around and researching has enlightened me as to how deficient my current keyboard is, broken spacebar not included... The keys are wobbly as hell, and yes they're probably heavier than need be...
Basically I'm dreaming of a Topre now but I think I'm forced to go with a brown switch that will relatively fill my needs. I think I was going crazy enough to buy the Realforce RGB (with 45g throughout) but the shipping slowed my enthusiasm, lol.
Unless you guys can help me get Topre in Montreal I think this thread is done. I really appreciate your advice, all of you!!! I definitely know what I want now
Mithy

I think I bought mine way back from mechanicalkeyboards.com also, back then it was $150 USD. I live in Toronto so shipping should be similar. I did some quick math $139 + $33 (shipping) will run you $172 USD = $215 CAD. While it is kind of quite a bit but at the same time Topre typically cost more than their Cherry MX counterparts. So I think it might be worth it as a long term investment (also given your current keyboard is falling apart). If I remember correctly back then NCIX was selling it for $200 CAD so with tax it would've been more expensive anyway.

I would say the bigger issue is that only pink is availalbe now (every other colour out of stock) LOL.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1635

Unless you think you can wait then I'd probably wait for Realforce R2, the Japanese layout is already out (came out Nov 2017), now I'm waiting for the English ANSI layout to come out. If you can wait then I'd recommend getting the 45g uniform silent.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91649.0

Quote from: Giorgio on Thu, 15 February 2018, 07:30:38

troll, stop wasting our time, thanks

^ Agreed.

I mean I understand where people come from but OP already request to stop bugging him/her about this. Also it's not the core issue here anyway so I'd respect his/her choice and try to focus on the important part of the discussion.

Mithy · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 03:39:54 »

Sigh,

I don't even know if Giorgio's troll comment is aimed at me but if it is... I'm not the troll :/ You've been coming back for this over and over...
Although futurecrime certainly fits the bill if that's who you meant... I know niche communities tend to build up this kind of defensive attitude
so I was somewhat prepared for it, but please give me a break.

I really looked around but neither NCIX nor DirectCanada even list Topre keyboards anymore (not just out of stock, just not listed at all).
That's unbelievable to me... that the very best keyboards can't even be bought in Canada, and that they're out of stock on USA websites too! WOW.
I won't claim to know where to fault lies, if there even is fault. It's just really sad :/

In fact on mechanicalkeyboards.com , even ignoring the 40$ USD shipping, all Topre were out of stock save for
a pink Type Heaven keyboard. I was prepared to forego the gaming aspects and the aesthetics but not willing to have a bright pink keyboard for even more cost, lol.
Call me stuckup

The Realforce RGB JUST came back on for sale but only as pre-order and not to be received by April...
And trust me, by then, my buyer's remorse over a 350+ CAD keyboard would have had me pulling all of my hair out bigtime, lol. And most likely mailing MM.com
to cancel the transaction.

Thanks again Hyde, especially coming from someone who had to order from Canada as well, but yeah... even if I wanted to, it seems literally impossible now.

So I've settled on getting a Logitech G-Romer RGB and a Corsair Cherry MX Brown RGB and I'll return whichever is inadequate (or both, but I doubt it).
I'm going to make do like I have before, except with a gorgeous RGB mechanical keyboard (tactile) instead of a standard average
rubber dome with a broken space bar. It's going to be a gigantic improvement. It's not like I've been picky in the past, right?
I literally have been typing on a broken space bar for easily over a year and the other keys on this keyboard are ULTRA wobbly too.

For the future, I will definitely keep an eye on Topre being available in Canada or to pick up on some unforeseen trip to the US.
I don't think the value will be lost because I would find a friend to make very happy with a gift of whichever KB I'm getting this time.

Thanks again to all who tried to help, and type on

Mith

P.S. Maybe I'll make a video for doubters (or haters) if these switches work for me, lol. I stopped the type testing when my bar broke
but still got 150 fairly easy on that suggested site. Eat my shorts Giorgio, you unpleasant thing!

Also I get it carmenohio, no sweat.

Polymer · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 04:33:35 »

No need to be defensive...

I personally would love to see you type 150-200wpm with 2 fingers on each side...It is hard (if not impossible) to believe but it would be FANTASTIC to get to see...that's why people want to see a video because if true, it would be absolutely amazing to see.

I do think Topre will be great for you...it won't be a huge difference from your normal keyboard other than smoother, more stable, sounds better, better responsiveness..but it is basically like the best rubber dome keyboard you'll have tried...Just make sure you get uniform because your typing style will mean you will hate variable..

rich1051414 · « **Reply #30 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 04:34:12 »

For what it's worth, the fastest typist I know likes browns. Gross

For me, I like a very tactile experience(and clicky), so I prefer much more tactility, but the subtle tactility is liked a lot by fast typists, so I will just respect their opinion on that matter.

Both the switches you chose have very subtle tactility, so I wouldn't doubt if they were the right choice for you. Expect people to disagree. You know what they say about opinions.

mustcode · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 05:27:22 »

I was intrigued by how fast people can type with only 1 or 2 fingers on each hand... so I went to Youtube and saw some videos of people hunt and pecking at ~100wpm, which is already quite impressive. Now, I really wanna see one with 200 or even 150wpm... OP please make the video!

Btw, I actually got my first Topre (RF 87u 45g) from Amazon... there are tons of Topre boards in stock. You can also get a used one pretty easily from the mech community. Used Topre in good condition popup quite regularly.

Giorgio · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 06:19:15 »

Topre is bad for your fingers. The landing is faster and harsher than cherry because the rubber dome collapses and your fingers accelerate their speed until the moment of the impact. So, that's exactly the kb you shoud get

)

DALExSNAIL · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 07:01:26 »

Defensive? Bruh you just popped in and said you were among the fastest typists on planet ****ing earth, using 4 fingers.

That's like going on a running forum, saying you occasionally beat times set by the fastest runners on earth, only with weights on your leg, then asking for shoe suggestions.

Signature · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 16 February 2018, 07:28:16 »

Quote from: Giorgio on Fri, 16 February 2018, 06:19:15

Topre is bad for your fingers. The landing is faster and harsher than cherry because the rubber dome collapses and your fingers accelerate their speed until the moment of the impact. So, that's exactly the kb you shoud get )

dude he already thought about this. He's typing with his pinkey and ring finger so he's saving the important fingers. With a couple years of training he should be able to do split-finger keyboards typing 2 times the speed with 2 keyboards.

Hyde · « **Reply #35 on:** Mon, 19 February 2018, 17:30:18 »

Quote from: Polymer on Fri, 16 February 2018, 04:33:35

No need to be defensive...

I personally would love to see you type 150-200wpm with 2 fingers on each side...It is hard (if not impossible) to believe but it would be FANTASTIC to get to see...that's why people want to see a video because if true, it would be absolutely amazing to see.

I do think Topre will be great for you...it won't be a huge difference from your normal keyboard other than smoother, more stable, sounds better, better responsiveness..but it is basically like the best rubber dome keyboard you'll have tried...Just make sure you get uniform because your typing style will mean you will hate variable..

^ This guy has the right approach to things. Be nice guys.

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Author Topic: Mech KB for fast typist? (Read 5872 times)