Filco or Leopold?

[neo]

Thanks for posting that.

Makes sense to me.  This map looks oddly missing something (and I'm not talking Nigeria).

Show Image

Waiting for these distributors to get their act together is like waiting for Sandy Bridge parts.

This map is missing an awful lot...

[ynih]

I really hope not Newegg...their shipping and tax totally rapes us Californians

[neo]

I really hope not Newegg...their shipping and tax totally rapes us Californians

Here is what Bruce of The Keyboard Company (Diatec's UK distributor) recently said:

The Keyboard Company will be partnering Diatec to address the situation and there will be news within weeks about Filco availability in USA.

If The Keyboard Company becomes directly involved in USA distribution we can expect two things judging from their current operation:

(1) Service will be excellent.
(2) Prices will totally rape everyone, not just Californians.

[woody]

Whining about prices is part of the US culture it seems.

[ynih]

I've bought plenty of things from Bruce @ thekeyboardco before, and the service and quality has always been excellent.  When service is good, I don't bicker about price.  But when the same item, could be bought elsewhere, minus the 10% tax, then I start bickering...Poor California, we're in so much ****.

[xira]

one of the many reasons i don't miss living in California... no sales tax here in Oregon

[steeef]

one of the many reasons i don't miss living in California... no sales tax here in Oregon

Totally. We make up for it with higher income tax and property taxes.

[thebilgerat]

Hi all,

Hot thread here:)

First off, I should apologize (partly) for the wait, but in all fairness, EK has never officially announced we'd be carrying Leopold keyboards on our website; we've only alluded to it;)

The current state of things is that the manufacturing end has not held up to their delivery promises; so while we originally planned a 1 month delay, things are getting pushed back a few more weeks. As of this week, ETA is now mid-March, but I'm waiting for a solid date before I announce anything officially.

Don't want to be entirely OT, so with respect to the OP, despite that he/she may have already decided, I will give my two cents on the question of FILCO or Leopold for the record.

My somewhat detailed comparison:
-Case: I've heard some people like the sharper angles of the FILCO, and my eye somewhat agrees, but I do like how the Leopold case is much easier to open (you just use a credit card) and the cable channels are nice; aesthetic perceptions are forgiving with time (ugly wife, but a good cook, etc.). Both cases are similar in strength and flex.

-Keycaps: The FILCO key coating and pad printing look nice a first but current revisions (last 2 years) don't age well; Leopold's keycaps don't have a coating that wears off and even if the white in-fill of the lasered lettering wears off or chips away (probably will), the letter is there to stay.

-PCB: this is really up in the air, both boards have similar material quality, though on close inspection I'd say the Leopold has a slightly more durable physical trace design for this type of PCB material when used with plate mounted switches; but time will tell. Through-hole diodes on Leopold versus SMD on FILCO; it doesn't really matter, though I've seen more SMD diodes fail than through-hole in my days, it's almost statistically insignificant.

-Controller: Same basic features; FILCO uses Holtek, Leopold uses Cypress. We did see a lot of bricks with the Holteks in FILCOs, and despite FILCO putting the controllers on modules, I'm still hearing DOA stories from folks who recently bought a FILCO from overseas (EK tested every board, apparently overseas sellers do not:( ). It's hard to think Cypress will be any worse, time will tell:)
Note: while FILCO may have some advantage of having a detachable controller board; i.e. you don't have to scrap the entire board...actually getting replacement controller boards is another question (FILCO's parent doesn't stock them, nor do distributors).

-Stabilizers: Leopold stabilizers are from Cherry and make for easy keycap removal (cleaning and replacement); FILCO stablizers have a slightly smoother travel than the Cherries (if greased), but are a pain in the arse to remove and replace and are easy to break.

-Misc: They're both made-in-TW mechanicals that are designed by the same designer (who doesn't work for either company). The FILCO design was originally intended to be minimalistic and sturdy and the Leopold design follows the same vein, but Leopold adds the detachable cable and takes some queues from Realforce boards by adding cable channels on the underside of the board and 2-angle feet with softer rubber in the front for better traction. One concern I have about Leopolds is that the detachable cable connectors (same on Duckys) are probably *not* of the same ilk as the connector on an HHKB Pro, so there is a question of tolerances, reliability, how they'll age, etc.

Some other thoughts...

Member sixty has a point about FILCO, EK did do a lot of filtering (yes Ripster, some Saturday nights were wasted), and we really pushed FILCO's parent hard to make improvements to their boards; with minor success. Coincidentally and *completely* unrelated, the RK-9000 is a nice board...(Oh well, water under the bridge.) The FILCO name is what it is today, in part, due to the fact that EK carried it. And any product that EK carries in the future is going to go through the same quality filter and we'll work to make improvements where necessary. Fortunately, the team at Leopold has a strong future and is much more in tune with our direction and methods than FILCO was.

Just a sidenote, you may ask why the rubber on the fold-out feet of the FILCOs was scrapped in the Leopold design. On the FILCO it was necessary to compensate for the fact that the front rubber feet barely provided any traction when the back feet were folded out (due to the angle the front pads are mounted at). The rubber fold out feet were a band-aid that had the occasional side effect akin to getting your foot stuck in between some rocks, wherein you could end up with a broken ankle; so with the Leopold design the rubber on the foldout feet was removed and more traction was added with a second set of front feet that have full contact with your desk while the back feet are folded out. Who knew Topre had it right from the beginning! R&D sometimes saves money down the line;)

BTW, bytemeavaj (assuming you read this far!), sorry if I didn't respond to your last PM, I wasn't pissed, just inundated with other requests from other people for the same items. I kind of look at classifieds here as a swap-meet-like environment where people make offers and try to barter, and if you get ignored or passed by, then your offer wasn't attractive, that's it. You don't sweat it, you make another offer or move on to the next booth, etc.

Also, if you sent an e-mail to the tune of "where are themz leopoldz?" to the EK sales address, then you're on the very bottom of the response pile (with those people who ask for unwarranted discounts and waivers of sales tax). It's not meant in any disrespect, but given the volume of such mails, and presence of a message in the side bar of every product page on our website addressing that the announcement of the new boards will be via newsletter...I cannot guarantee a response.  Though if you're tremendously polite, an existing customer, or just darn creative I might bite:) If you sent such an inquiry to the support address, then it was probably deleted. Yes, existing customers have priority; that won't change.

Ok, that's the most of it...for what I lack in brevity I hope I make up for in quality;)

So....where are ' dem  Leopolds?  

[webbyboy]

im back in Korea, if anyone wants some stuffs from leopold you can pm me.

[shoto1699]

ill wait till the end of next week.

if theres no news then... then ill snap and refund and then go buy a filco majestouch

[Chobopants]

Man, putting in a pre-order that says "shipping be the end of March" and people get annoyed/impatient before the end of March. Tsk.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

The EK news page has clearly stated "This first batch includes 3 varieties which we expect to begin shipping in the last week of March. Quantities in this first run are limited, so this is first come first serve. ".

Until we get to the end of the last week of march (I'd get concerned on Wednesday) I wouldn't be too concerned.

[neo]

How long since Filcos initially went out of stock on EK to never come back? About six month? And still no replacement? If they don't ship by April 1, a lot of people will freak out.

[Chobopants]

Filcos have been able to be purchased from a wide swath of options if you're willing to order from not EK. People just like to whine.

[jfaulken]

April 3 and no word.

[jfaulken]

Then I guess I'm just down the list.  Thanks for replying.