Author Topic: Unicomp and Model M - gaming?  (Read 26014 times)

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Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 01:12:21 »
So I brought home a Model M from work, largely to see if they key noise would wake up my gf if I happened to be gaming late one night. Not sure if it will not. She said that it did not bother her when she was awake but obviously if the noise wakes up it's an issue.

 The other reason I brought it home was I wanted to give something with buckling springs a try because Unicomp's have piqued my interest.

- a company that ships to Canada ( Deck does not )
- a company that honours all repairs and issues ( Deck wont if you buy from a reseller )
- comes in multiple colours, will ship keys of other colours
- ridiculous durability and dye sub keys

 Seems like a pretty good deal not to mention that the price is very nice as well. So since the one Unicomp at work ( Customizer 104? ) is attached to a mission critical machine, I brought home this Model M as a test. Played WoW on it a while and while it takes some getting used to, it performed very admirably.

 It is crazy to even comtemplate buying  a Unicomp to play games on? I realize some folks play on MX Blues but this seems even more clicky. While I'm not looking for someone to make the decision for me, this is one of the very few mechanicals I have used so far, and would like to have some more input from those in the know.

Offline bugfix

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 03:23:47 »
I have a Unicomp and it's certainly possible to play games with them. I personally prefer a lighter switch for gaming though, but if you didn't have problems on the Model M and WoW I doubt that you will with a Unicomp. NKRO might be an issue though.
*~Unicomp and Topre fan~*
I have:
Unicomp Customizer 105 German
Realforce 105GR
Unicomp Spacesaver German/Ansi hybrid(Current favorite)
I want:
Realforce 88GER
I used to have:
DAS Model S Ultimate EU (Sold)

Offline Surly73

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 07:10:11 »
When I found my model  M in my basement over the Christmas holiday I wired it up at home for general use including some gaming.

In my particular situation, they were too loud.  They could even be heard upstairs on the other side of the house in a "middle of the night" typing situation.  When gaming, I found BS to not be what I was looking for.  I found that I could accidentally apply just a little too much force and pop the key down.  Instead of backing off a little you have to do a full release to get it back.  I'm sure I could adjust, but I didn't consider it ideal.

I'm far from hardcore, and still do lots of typing etc...  I'm planning to see how browns do in a mixed application.

Offline ch_123

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 09:09:06 »
There are plenty of people (myself included) who play on buckling springs. Some people may not like them, or prefer other switches over them, but I think it's fair to say that they are not an objectively unsuitable choice.

Offline guilleguillaume

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 09:29:30 »
Hey Ripster that pic shows us Neuschwanstein! :D

My family went last summer there but I couldn't since I was working.

BTW I think that it you're okay with them (BS) you can't go into a wrong decission.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 10:13:59 »
Quote
Back in the day Gamerz didn't get hysterical about hysteresis.

The dirty secret no-one much talks about: your choice of keyboard has very little impact your leet gaming skillz.

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
Work: Topre Realforce 87B  /  Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0

Offline SirDrexl

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 10:24:00 »
I considered it, but the 2KRO caused me to rule it out.

Offline v193r

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 10:47:59 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;296717
The dirty secret no-one much talks about: your choice of keyboard has very little impact your leet gaming skillz.


I disagree. I find gaming on my HHKB much more responsive than rubber dome or black alps. By responsive i mean i can feel the key actuation thus have a better feel for the game.

A test I always like to do with keyboard is playing snake on with the wasd keys. Snake requires quick double tapping to do those quick u-turns. Ofc scissor switches perform the best due to their quick actuation. And topre 45g do the second best.

Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 10:58:45 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;296717
The dirty secret no-one much talks about: your choice of keyboard has very little impact your leet gaming skillz.



I am very far from leet gamer status. I fall into the " comes to the raid prepared, on time and is reliable and easy to get along with in pressure situations". Might have been leet in years gone by ( work 8 hour day, raid plane of time until 1 am, sleep till 2:30 am, raid Vex Thal from 2:30 to 6am, shower, eat, sleep in clothes, go to work at 7:30 am, rinse repeat ) but now I'm " old and slow " and looking for a keyboard that will never quit from a company that never quits and offers some nice perks ( blank and colored keys that happen to made from PBT and dye subbed...mmmm so nice ).

  Chuck from Unicomp sent me an email last night saying that he would be able to work with me looking for what colors I wanted for certain keys, and to me that kind of service is priceless. Haven't quite decided on it but I do have another question.

  Since the Unicomp is only 2 or 3KRO, is there any benefit to going with a PS/2 version over a USB version?

Offline ch_123

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 13:41:44 »
Quote from: ripster;296693
MEANWHILE AT ELITEKEYBOARDS....
Show Image


A vendor twisting the truth to make their produce look more desirable? Surely not.

Quote
Since the Unicomp is only 2 or 3KRO, is there any benefit to going with a PS/2 version over a USB version?


No.

Offline BababooeyHTJ

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 14:05:57 »
I love gaming on my Unicomp. I have yet to run into an issue with keyblocking so the lack of NKRO which in my opinion people put way too much focus on doesn't bother me. I enjoy gaming on this keyboard far more than I did with blues and blacks and typing was is a far better experience than I had with either. As long as the noise isn't an issue I highly recommend one of these boards for gaming.

Offline theferenc

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 14:27:04 »
Quote from: Malerik;296743
Since the Unicomp is only 2 or 3KRO, is there any benefit to going with a PS/2 version over a USB version?


The only differences I know of is which port you plug in to, and if you need a customized controller, they make you go with PS/2. Not sure why that is, but it's what happened with my custom layout.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline FunkTrooper

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 14:34:59 »
I game exclusively on my Unicomp. The high actuation force is great for me. It means I can comfortably rest my fingers on the keys without actually pressing them down. And the abundantly obvious CLICK is nice because you *really* know when you've pressed a key -- you'll never half press something and wonder if it's actually worked. I've never had an issue with the lack of NKRO -- I don't have that many fingers on my left hand, so I don't see it becoming an issue.

Just don't bring it to a LAN party.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 14:39:45 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver
The dirty secret no-one much talks about: your choice of keyboard has very little impact your leet gaming skillz.
Quote from: v193r;296738
I disagree.



I still think I'm right :)

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
Work: Topre Realforce 87B  /  Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0

Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 18:55:06 »
I was thinking about going USB for "futureproofing" should I ever want to use it on a wus mainboard with no PS/2 ( or a laptop ). I realize that polling for a keyboard is not really a factor, but does the interrupt based PS/2 really not have any advantages at all? Other than saving a USB slot. Was leaning PS/2 but starting to think USB might be the better choice.

Offline bugfix

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 23:55:41 »
Quote from: Malerik;296954
but does the interrupt based PS/2 really not have any advantages at all?


I would say that's just marketing bla bla. Except for the NKRO (not an issue with this one as we've pointed out) there were no differences that I could notice between USB and PS/2 with my DAS.
*~Unicomp and Topre fan~*
I have:
Unicomp Customizer 105 German
Realforce 105GR
Unicomp Spacesaver German/Ansi hybrid(Current favorite)
I want:
Realforce 88GER
I used to have:
DAS Model S Ultimate EU (Sold)

Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 19 February 2011, 11:36:09 »
Decided I have spent enough time deciding and I went and ordered the Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 in Grey and Black with an extra set of black keys. Hopefully should have it in a week or so. I will post pics when it shows up!

Offline keyb_gr

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 19 February 2011, 16:00:34 »
Quote from: Malerik;296954
I was thinking about going USB for "futureproofing" should I ever want to use it on a wus mainboard with no PS/2 ( or a laptop ).
You can get pretty decent USB converters for PS/2 devices (we even have a wiki on them), so that's not a big issue. Besides, most any new keyboard shipping with a PS/2 plug also "speaks" USB, so a mechanical adapter will do. The same applies to a lot of USB keyboards, at least most of those without an integrated hub.
Quote from: Malerik;296954
I realize that polling for a keyboard is not really a factor, but does the interrupt based PS/2 really not have any advantages at all?
It pretty much only does when you'd expect it, i.e. on a rather slow, heavily loaded PC that needs the internal buffer once in a while. My main 'board is always PS/2, as USB occasionally drops a few characters and I need reliable input. (And then there was this bug that kept the processor from going into a deeper sleep state when using a USB keyboard, thus increasing power consumption. I don't remember the specifics.)
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline bugfix

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 19 February 2011, 16:14:03 »
Quote from: keyb_gr;297886
as USB occasionally drops a few characters


You sure about that?
*~Unicomp and Topre fan~*
I have:
Unicomp Customizer 105 German
Realforce 105GR
Unicomp Spacesaver German/Ansi hybrid(Current favorite)
I want:
Realforce 88GER
I used to have:
DAS Model S Ultimate EU (Sold)

Offline keyb_gr

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 19 February 2011, 16:49:03 »
I guess it rather is the PC getting behind with polling so a packet goes straight to digital nirvana (as there is no handshaking from what I know), but amounts to the same.

Keep in mind that my hardware here is about 11 year old technology as far as board/CPUs go, and pretty heavy loading is required for the character drops to occur. I guess Seamonkey clogs up a lot of memory bandwidth when entering stuff into a textbox. In a system where heavy swapping can lead to even the mouse cursor grinding to a halt for minutes (let alone the coaster I've managed to create by heavy disk access from a low-priority process when the burning software ran at highest priority), I'm not surprised about anything. I hope the guys in Redmond got that fixed at some point, they would've had enough time.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline daniel0731ex

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 19 February 2011, 17:05:04 »
PCHome ships to Canada with $20 shipping.

And currently on Promotion: $10 shipping to USA

They have all the Duckys there (And Filcos too).
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline daniel0731ex

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 19 February 2011, 17:12:43 »
Quote from: ripster;297919
That's funny.  I assumed it was $10 WW.


If you assume USA is the whole world, then yes.

lol.
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 24 February 2011, 21:23:20 »
Unicomp shipped my SS 104 today, should have it Monday and will post picks when I get it home.

Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 28 February 2011, 15:49:47 »
So my Unicomp arrived in the mail today and from and from a look point of view its awesome. They did black on black printing for me oh the indicated keys and this has made them look a bit shiny, but since i requested a full set of printed and blank keys for replacement purposes 'm not worried about that at all. I will get some pictures up tonight.

Offline Malerik

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 28 February 2011, 20:48:03 »
PIctures as promised.

Offline bettablue

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 01:05:56 »
Quote from: Surly73;296642
When I found my model  M in my basement over the Christmas holiday I wired it up at home for general use including some gaming.

In my particular situation, they were too loud.  They could even be heard upstairs on the other side of the house in a "middle of the night" typing situation.  When gaming, I found BS to not be what I was looking for.  I found that I could accidentally apply just a little too much force and pop the key down.  Instead of backing off a little you have to do a full release to get it back.  I'm sure I could adjust, but I didn't consider it ideal.

I'm far from hardcore, and still do lots of typing etc...  I'm planning to see how browns do in a mixed application.
Have you tried the floss mod on the model M?  I'm kinda playing around with that right now.  I have my home row flossed and the rest left alone.  There is a huge difference.  The flossed key don't feel any different, but they sure are a lot queter.  If flossing isn't enough you can also try the rubber o ring around the spring well too.  That will help quiet the keys as the bottom out.  I have heard that by using the o-ring that key feel is changed, so you might want to experiment.  Ripster has guides in the Modification forums here on GH.  If I have learned anything at all, it's that I trust Ripster's advice when it comes to modifying model M's and Unicomp keyboards.
Vintage Computer user, and collector, specializing in the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, the World\'s first REAL PC!
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Offline Surly73

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 07:28:23 »
Quote from: bettablue;302582
Have you tried the floss mod on the model M?  I'm kinda playing around with that right now.  I have my home row flossed and the rest left alone.  There is a huge difference.  The flossed key don't feel any different, but they sure are a lot queter.  If flossing isn't enough you can also try the rubber o ring around the spring well too.  That will help quiet the keys as the bottom out.  I have heard that by using the o-ring that key feel is changed, so you might want to experiment.  Ripster has guides in the Modification forums here on GH.  If I have learned anything at all, it's that I trust Ripster's advice when it comes to modifying model M's and Unicomp keyboards.

After my model M made it into the office I floss modded it.  It's different, but still sounds like a machine gun.  It is a 1993 1397599 with blue logo but there's no sign of the word "Lexmark" on it anywhere.  The ENTER key has a pronounced WHACK when it bottoms out but the rest of the noise is mostly key release twang.  It has the usual BS click, but what really makes it carry is the twang.

I wrote in another thread (my 'help my narrow', I think) that I also found a 3151 terminal 1392595 in my basement.  It's an earlier black logo keyboard and although I no longer had them side by side, the 1392595 sounds tighter, quieter, and way less twangy.  I'd also say that the BS feedback is also lighter.  In that thread some suggested that maybe I have some broken rivets or something in the 1397599 contributing to the twangy racket.  I have yet to purchase a low profile 7/32" socket to take it apart and see.  It's really minty looking - no shiny keys, no scratches, not a hint of yellowing.  I don't think it's seen a hard life.  It's just really, really noisy.  I was also thinking of trying to swap the 1392595 mechanicals into the 1397599 case, controller and keycaps to blend the best of both worlds.

I have not come across a thread where anyone has generalized that Lexmark versions are twangy while IBM versions are quiet, or anything like that.  Just general statements of Lexmark being inferior, but only slightly, with no specifics...  The closest thing I found was here.  The author seems unsure if he's just imagining things but he does describe his 1397599 to be stiffer and more twangy than his 1391401 but the difference could be wear, fiction, or who knows what.  I suppose I could second that review and indicate that my 1397599 is twangy too.  Is that because it's Lexmark?  Or is there something different about the 1397599 design altogether?  It's a much less popular model#.  The only thing I see different about it is that "Alt" is in green on the caps.

Clickykeyboards has one for sale here which seems to indicate that IBM made 1397599s too, and that the only diff is the green Alt and grey numpad labels.  (???)
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 March 2011, 07:33:43 by Surly73 »

Offline ch_123

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 07:46:15 »
The twang almost always is the result of missing plastic rivets.

Offline Surly73

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 09:14:53 »
Quote from: ch_123;302682
The twang almost always is the result of missing plastic rivets.


So, if true, that would mean that the bolt mod would fix this?  (sorry, still fairly noob).  I find it interesting that the person who wrote that GH article observed the same thing I did - twangy 1397599 and less twangy 1391401.

Time to go tool shopping, I guess.

Offline Surly73

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 10:17:14 »
Quote from: ripster;302728
The most complete analysis of Unicomp versus Blue Label versus Black Label versus.....  is here.

Someday I'll summarize it all in the OP but essentially other than the first few Model Ms (thicker base plate) they are all functionally the same.

That link doesn't seem to bring up the whole article.  It stops after "plastics".  I find it interesting that the article I linked was one where the other guys twangy 1397599 was black label and mine is blue.  Both 7599s and both twangy.  Although mine is blue label, it is made in 1993 (not post 1993), appears to have drainage but doesn't say Lexmark anywhere - just IBM and "Made in USA".  I thought all blue label 1391401s said "made by Lexmark for IBM" or at least had Lexmark on them somewhere.  Who knows, there are so many variants.

I'll definitely get the socket to open it and look for missing/broken rivets.

EDIT: nevermind - found the rest of the article in with the "discussion"...

EDIT #2: Wikipedia says that 1397599 was made in 1993 by IBM, not Lexmark.  Are they correct?  That would make it an exception to the "blue labels are Lexmarks" rule...  Maybe I need to see silkscreening on the controller board to tell for certain.
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 March 2011, 10:30:25 by Surly73 »

Offline ch_123

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 11:24:20 »
Quote from: Surly73;302761
That link doesn't seem to bring up the whole article.  It stops after "plastics".  I find it interesting that the article I linked was one where the other guys twangy 1397599 was black label and mine is blue.  Both 7599s and both twangy.  Although mine is blue label, it is made in 1993 (not post 1993), appears to have drainage but doesn't say Lexmark anywhere - just IBM and "Made in USA".  I thought all blue label 1391401s said "made by Lexmark for IBM" or at least had Lexmark on them somewhere.  Who knows, there are so many variants.

...

EDIT #2: Wikipedia says that 1397599 was made in 1993 by IBM, not Lexmark.  Are they correct?  That would make it an exception to the "blue labels are Lexmarks" rule...  Maybe I need to see silkscreening on the controller board to tell for certain.


Lexmark had an arrangement with IBM whereby Lexmark got to use IBM branding on stuff they made for some time. Any US-made Model M from March 1991 onwards was made by Lexmark, and the same is true of Mexican ones. IBM continued making keyboards in their Greenock plant in Scotland after Lexmark took over manufacture in the US, so there are indeed some blue label Model Ms made by IBM themselves. However, given that they have Lexmark parts inside them, it's more likely that IBM just bought the parts in from Lexmark and assembled them, with very little actual manufacture done in the UK plant.

I really should fix the Wikipedia article on Model Ms...
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 March 2011, 11:31:42 by ch_123 »

Offline BababooeyHTJ

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 13:30:00 »
Quote from: ripster;302728
The most complete analysis of Unicomp versus Blue Label versus Black Label versus.....  is here.

Someday I'll summarize it all in the OP but essentially other than the first few Model Ms (thicker base plate) they are all functionally the same.


Thanks, sounds like a good read.

Offline Alex

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 01 April 2011, 12:58:21 »
I got my first model m the other day, but i can't say that i enjoy it all that much for gaming. I much prefer my SteelSeries cherry black switches for that.

Offline Keylamity

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 01 April 2011, 13:08:21 »
Quote from: ripster;296693

My son doesn't even care about such trivia and just games on a Unicomp Spacesaver fine.


My son has no issues with it either.....I can tell what time he's up and on the computer so it can be a good parenting tool.....probably a bit of a trick for older dogs to get used to, tho.

Offline What is X?

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 01 April 2011, 20:08:23 »
Quote from: ch_123;302814
Lexmark had an arrangement with IBM whereby Lexmark got to use IBM branding on stuff they made for some time. Any US-made Model M from March 1991 onwards was made by Lexmark, and the same is true of Mexican ones. IBM continued making keyboards in their Greenock plant in Scotland after Lexmark took over manufacture in the US, so there are indeed some blue label Model Ms made by IBM themselves. However, given that they have Lexmark parts inside them, it's more likely that IBM just bought the parts in from Lexmark and assembled them, with very little actual manufacture done in the UK plant.

I really should fix the Wikipedia article on Model Ms...

That must only apply to normal consumer model Ms cause my 1397000 was made on the 23rd January, 1992, and it has a grey IBM label.

@thread: gaming on my buckling springs is really no different to domes except i'm more aware of what keys i'm hitting.

Offline Shuki

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 01 April 2011, 21:38:29 »
Buckling springs would be fine for gaming if you don't mind the activation force required. Although I've never tried a Buckling spring!

Offline What is X?

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Unicomp and Model M - gaming?
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 01 April 2011, 21:49:13 »
Quote from: Shuki;323094
Buckling springs would be fine for gaming if you don't mind the activation force required. Although I've never tried a Buckling spring!

I've only ever tried buckling springs and they're lighter than most domes tbh