PBT 104/105 set ROUND 3 (COMPLETED)

[mooswa]

And for custom layout, one can do an interest check thread to see if there is enough of existing + new byers.

[nickatnite]

With dyesub you can only have a darker color than the keycap, so on a black set that does limit you to an even darker black for legends. If you want to order 20+ for a specific layout can also have laser option if you would rather to get a lighter legend color. Laser is same price as dyesub.

Still some discussion going on about doing sideprint. It may become an option, just keep an eye on the OP if it appears there. Sideprint dyesub would be same price as rest of printed set.

I just realize it's bad enough seeing legends black on black from the top. Black on black side prints would make it nearly invisible. May as well get blanks.

Classy white or gray prints preferred using any printing method.

[strict]

I just realize it's bad enough seeing legends black on black from the top. Black on black side prints would make it nearly invisible. May as well get blanks.

Classy white or gray prints preferred using any printing method.

Thats the appeal of it 

[Oobly]

Okay, so reading through here again just to see if I missed anything I discover that the "Pitch BLACK" edition blank black set is not actually going to be black, but dark grey like the Realforce keys...

I will be cancelling my order unless I can get truly black PBT blanks. Was looking forward to trying Cherry profile....

I am very disappointed and I suspect a lot of other people will be, too. Was it to reach MOQ by combining the orders for printed and blank (since you can't do dyesub on true black)?

[LechnerDE]

Okay, so reading through here again just to see if I missed anything I discover that the "Pitch BLACK" edition blank black set is not actually going to be black, but dark grey like the Realforce keys...

I will be cancelling my order unless I can get truly black PBT blanks. Was looking forward to trying Cherry profile....

I am very disappointed and I suspect a lot of other people will be, too. Was it to reach MOQ by combining the orders for printed and blank (since you can't do dyesub on true black)?

Ivan never claimed the set will be truly black. Whoever ordered and is now surprised that these are dark gray keys simply didn't read the OP. This is hardly Ivan's fault. "Pitch Black" is just a catchy name for this set like "Raindrop" or "Red Alert".

[atlas3686]

Okay, so reading through here again just to see if I missed anything I discover that the "Pitch BLACK" edition blank black set is not actually going to be black, but dark grey like the Realforce keys...

I will be cancelling my order unless I can get truly black PBT blanks. Was looking forward to trying Cherry profile....

I am very disappointed and I suspect a lot of other people will be, too. Was it to reach MOQ by combining the orders for printed and blank (since you can't do dyesub on true black)?

I think we are probably arguing shades of grey here but the Realforce keys are pretty dark I mean my "black" Filco keys are not noticeably darker than my Topre keys.

[Oobly]

That's not black to my eyes.... The OP doesn't mention that these are not pure black. The GB was originally for only blanks and I was expecting them to be like the Ducky blank black PBT (which really are black), but thicker and Cherry profile. I don't think I was out of line to assume this.

I guess the colour was chosen so that Ivan could add dyesubbed sets to the GB to try to get to MOQ. I should have kept an eye on the thread's progress, but I didn't and now have been unpleasantly surprised.

Maybe they just photograph badly, but all the pictures I have seen of the Realforce "black" PBT caps appear grey to me, whereas the Filco (etched) and Ducky (blank) ones look properly black:

[bueller]

Okay, so reading through here again just to see if I missed anything I discover that the "Pitch BLACK" edition blank black set is not actually going to be black, but dark grey like the Realforce keys...

I will be cancelling my order unless I can get truly black PBT blanks. Was looking forward to trying Cherry profile....

I am very disappointed and I suspect a lot of other people will be, too. Was it to reach MOQ by combining the orders for printed and blank (since you can't do dyesub on true black)?

I think we are probably arguing shades of grey here but the Realforce keys are pretty dark I mean my "black" Filco keys are not noticeably darker than my Topre keys.

Yeah only on the Web is black truly black, IRL is always a different story.

[Candyflip]

Okay, so reading through here again just to see if I missed anything I discover that the "Pitch BLACK" edition blank black set is not actually going to be black, but dark grey like the Realforce keys...

I will be cancelling my order unless I can get truly black PBT blanks. Was looking forward to trying Cherry profile....

I am very disappointed and I suspect a lot of other people will be, too. Was it to reach MOQ by combining the orders for printed and blank (since you can't do dyesub on true black)?

Ivan never claimed the set will be truly black. Whoever ordered and is now surprised that these are dark gray keys simply didn't read the OP. This is hardly Ivan's fault. "Pitch Black" is just a catchy name for this set like "Raindrop" or "Red Alert".

To be honest I am surprised a little too, I am guessing you didn't read the OP since no where it says it is dark gray. One would assume Pitch Black is just a catchy name for a black set which I thought I am ordering. I can't say if the mock up is the real color or the set would be lighter shade or darker but If I wanted dark grey I would rather participate in the GMK group buy than a random factory produced PBT caps.

[Oobly]

Even EK calls it "Dark gray": http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se19e0

And from the Deskthority Wiki page on Realforce: "Topre’s black keycaps are not completely black"

I have yet to see one of these boards in person, so I'm not sure if it is dark enough to be acceptable for me, but I don't think it's right to call it black when it's noticably lighter than the colour of the case.

I guess I'll leave my order as is (one set of blanks) as I know I'll find a use for them (even if I end up selling them on), but I think the OP should be updated with info about the exact colour used, so more people don't get surprised by this.

Ivan, sorry if I over-reacted, but I wasn't expecting this.

[LechnerDE]

Okay, so reading through here again just to see if I missed anything I discover that the "Pitch BLACK" edition blank black set is not actually going to be black, but dark grey like the Realforce keys...

I will be cancelling my order unless I can get truly black PBT blanks. Was looking forward to trying Cherry profile....

I am very disappointed and I suspect a lot of other people will be, too. Was it to reach MOQ by combining the orders for printed and blank (since you can't do dyesub on true black)?

Ivan never claimed the set will be truly black. Whoever ordered and is now surprised that these are dark gray keys simply didn't read the OP. This is hardly Ivan's fault. "Pitch Black" is just a catchy name for this set like "Raindrop" or "Red Alert".

To be honest I am surprised a little too, I am guessing you didn't read the OP since no where it says it is dark gray. One would assume Pitch Black is just a catchy name for a black set which I thought I am ordering. I can't say if the mock up is the real color or the set would be lighter shade or darker but If I wanted dark grey I would rather participate in the GMK group buy than a random factory produced PBT caps.

Ok, I give you that. Dark gray isn't explicitly mentioned in the OP. I must have mixed this up with the discussion in this thread, but just looking at the mockups makes it obvious in my opinion. If black legends are to be put on dark caps, logic demands that these caps can't be truly black.

There is an explicit pic of how this set is supposed to look like in post #10. Maybe Ivan should edit this pic to the OP.

Am I the only that actually reads a thread anymore? It feels like nowadays people only skip through the OP and take a glance at the last few posts just to ask questions that were answered on the very first page of the thread...

[strict]

Technically its still black, according to a post earlier in the thread by Ivan its considered process black. However, it sounds like you were expecting rich black.

[eujin1994]

I actually googled "what is pitch black". Ended up showing some movie results. 

[itsaferbie]

I actually wanted to get some nice dark greys, so I'm not disappointment at all, I wanted to get this set mainly for the main alphanumeric keys, and then sometime later get some nice colored modifiers. So I'm actually glad they aren't going to be the a true rich black, but a more processed black.

[Oobly]

I actually googled "what is pitch black". Ended up showing some movie results. 

pitch-black
adj
1. extremely dark; unlit: the room was pitch-black.
2. (Colours) of a deep black colour

[IvanIvanovich]

Keys will be as black as possible while still allowing the dyesub to show up at all. Looking at orders printed set is about 50% of total order. Need to use a slightly lighter 'black' is necessary for printed sets, otherwise if we go for ink black dyesub is not possible and I do not think lasering or engraved is popular enough to get as many order. As it is now, we are getting pretty close to meeting the Plum MOQ of 300 set.

[nickatnite]

Is it possible to do Rich Black on blanks and Process Black on printed?

[riotonthebay]

Is it possible to do Rich Black on blanks and Process Black on printed?

This would give us two MOQ's to reach, and we're having trouble with one.

[CK Briefs]

Is there a difference between imsto and plum in terms of quality?

[strict]

Is there a difference between imsto and plum in terms of quality?

I believe KBC is producing the set with the 400 MOQ, not imsto. However, Im wondering this as well. Even if there was a small quality difference between KBC and Plum, I would almost be inclined to say its worth it to wait to meet the KBC MOQ. Since these keycaps are so unique I would prefer them to be as absolutely top-notch as possible. I've seen a ton of positive reviews for KBC caps but I haven't heard nearly as much about Plum caps.

[Oobly]

I understand the reasoning behind it and am satisfied now. I'd rather we reach the 300 MOQ for "light black" and actually get some good, thick Cherry profile PBT caps than try to get 300 or even 400 orders for rich black blanks (which is not likely to happen).

I was posting out of disappointment. Rich black Cherry profile thick PBT blanks are pretty close to my IDEAL keycaps and that is what I had set my heart on.

Thank you for all your effort on doing this for us, Ivan.

[IvanIvanovich]

As for quality on the Plum cap... you can get some opinion from any Choc mini, Plum 96 or Neo Zelia owner. Most account they seem like very good keycap, same like Cherry profile, same thick, similar texture. Only common complain I see on those is about the lasering/pad printing (a non issue for us) or those that simply hate Cherry profile.

[Lu_e]

How about the smoothness of the stem? That's one thing people have been repeating about IMSTO keys, that the stem doesn't add any extra friction to depressing keys. & do the PLUM keycaps have sharp/pointy corners?

These 2 things I was really looking forward to.

[CommonCurt]

How about the smoothness of the stem? That's one thing people have been repeating about IMSTO keys, that the stem doesn't add any extra friction to depressing keys. & do the PLUM keycaps have sharp/pointy corners?

These 2 things I was really looking forward to.

Yeah, I love how Imsto caps have pointy corners.

[IvanIvanovich]

I'm too lazy to go hunting around for better photo, but they are just like Cherry keycap. Same shape, profile etc.

I never owned a Choc, Plum, or Neo keyboard so I can't answer about how if they pose any feeling differences.

[IvanIvanovich]

Come on, we only need 50 more set to go to production.

[tbc]

is the OP showing prices from the plum factory?

[IvanIvanovich]

Everything is the same as before basically, just PLUM have 100 less for MOQ.

[CK Briefs]

Would it be possible to add in the arrow keys seen on the choc mini onto our orders for a price? Maybe even an 'fn' key instead of that weird looking menu key too? I'd LOVE those changes

[IvanIvanovich]

I only posted that photo to illustrate PLUM still Cherry profile and same thick as the KBC imsto keys I've used in the past.

[Oobly]

Updated my order to 4 sets, 2x blank, 2x black on black. Plus 4 sets of extra top row caps.

They are still blank Cherry profile thick PBT. Dark grey still looks good in most of the same places as black.

Wallet officially hacked, let's get to this MOQ guys!

[naasfu]

Oobly, I salute your contribution for our good cause!  I added a second set to my order today as well.

[LechnerDE]

Any news on the sideprinted option?

I'd add a set of those to my current order

[1pq]

Wallet officially hacked, let's get to this MOQ guys!

Definitely! Once the ISO add on is official, I'll be in for a set of blanks and a set of black printed ones.

[strict]

Any news on the sideprinted option?

I'd add a set of those to my current order

If side-print becomes available I plan on promptly changing my order from a set of blanks & top-print to a set of blanks & side-print.  I cant pass up an opportunity for something as sexy as thick pbt cherry profile dyesub side-print.

[MsYutai]

I went ahead and ordered another because imsto thick PBT are the bomb...!!

[IvanIvanovich]

I am waiting for final confirm for sideprint. If I get the OK from imsto I will make it available as a choice.

[1pq]

Wait plum didn't work out? Will ISO still be ABS?

[atlas3686]

Wait plum didn't work out? Will ISO still be ABS?

Keys are Plum printing is imsto I think.

[MsYutai]

EDIT: Apparently our keys will be darker than this set!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40637.msg820343#msg820343

My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

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[t2russo]

Here's a post with some pics of the caps if anyone is wondering. I'm thinking they will look the exact same as this set?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40637.msg820343#msg820343

My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

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No this is wrong these are not the keys.

[tbc]

would totally willīng to add a side printed set.

[1pq]

Here's a post with some pics of the caps if anyone is wondering. I'm thinking they will look the exact same as this set?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40637.msg820343#msg820343

My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

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No this is wrong these are not the keys.

I believe these are black, not dark grey like yours.

[atlas3686]

Yes I believe these are supposed to be darker.

[Oobly]

Here's a post with some pics of the caps if anyone is wondering. I'm thinking they will look the exact same as this set?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40637.msg820343#msg820343

My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

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No this is wrong these are not the keys.

I believe these are black, not dark grey like yours.

Well... a much darker grey at least ;) But otherwise pretty much the same: Thick PBT Cherry profile. Yummy.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes it will be MUCH darker than the existing grey imsto sets. Plum PBT for 104 ANSI set, GMK ABS for ISO/1.5/etc/etc and EDOX adapter packs. imsto will still do dyesub on PBTs, just going with PLUM Cherry keycaps instead for lower MOQ. I will know for sure sometime after the Lunar New Year holiday period about the sideprint.

[AndrePews]

Ordered a blank set, thank you Ivan for hosting this GB!   

The Aurebesh is dendi!

[1pq]

Is the ISO add on included with a normal order? I can't find any option for one on the order form, and I really want to get a set before we hit MOQ.

[MsYutai]

Here's a post with some pics of the caps if anyone is wondering. I'm thinking they will look the exact same as this set?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40637.msg820343#msg820343

My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

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No this is wrong these are not the keys.

I believe these are black, not dark grey like yours.

Okay good to know! I updated my original post so no one is confused!!

[IvanIvanovich]

No the GMK adapter kits will be separate items and additional cost. I haven't added them to the form yet because I still don't have pricing. I guess they are having a tough time trying to locate the vertical 1.5 keys for the EDOX pack.