Author Topic: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)  (Read 1920 times)

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Offline OGProgrammer

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Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 04:49:14 »
 ;D Hey GH community, I’m here cause I’m at a dead end and was hoping you folks could help. I’ve got this Matias keyboard which was doing well for me up until I tried cleaning it. I think when I was shooting canned air in there, some frost got in there and now my space on the right keyboard isn’t working. The period also seems to ghost hit at times. Tried replacing the switch and soldering a new one on the space key to no avail... every key works except that one. I’m thinking I’m SOL but want your thoughts before I try my nuclear option which is to solder a wire from the left spacebar key over to the right some how, probably drill a small hole in the plastic to feed the trip wire through.

I bought brand new switches so I highly doubt I replaced it with another bad switch but what do you all think?

If I’m Doomed, any ideas for another mech keyboard that has this split form factor, I was really proficient on this KB and not a fan of my small Ducky for day-to-day work. Not wanting to get another Matias cause I’ve only had this under a few years, kinda bs.

Ty!!

Offline Sup

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 09:39:06 »
Is there still soldering pad left on the pcb when you replaced the switch? If there is you could test it by desoldering the switch and using something conductive to bridge the two points and see if that activates. If it does activate you know it was the switches fault if it doesn't then there is a problem with the soldering pad and you need to bridge it.
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 21:28:00 »
To add to Sup's good advice if you have damaged the pad(s) you will be able to solder a wire from the switch pin(s) to the diode one side and a nearby switch the other, bypassing the traces on the board, no need to link between the halves.  Looking near the USB connectors it's a green PCB and the traces are nicely visible but if you're in any doubt what goes where post a pic of the back of the PCB and someone will be able to help.
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Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 21:45:06 »
This is exactly the type of advice I was looking for, I appreciate you guys. I’m a soldering noob so I think I might’ve destroyed the pads around the holes for the switch to make contact to. So would I connect K61 switch holes to the D42 diode that’s next to it? See picture. Before I take another stab at this I think I’m gonna wait for my copper braid to come in because I don’t think I remove the old solder correctly  :'(

I might read the other thread about what other keyboards people are using just in case this doesn’t work out LOL

My plan after youtubing and before I read y’alls replies was to see if there’s a way I could scratch off some of the PCB board to reveal the copper but I don’t think I’m gonna be able to do that given the small traces I see on the board. If I could get some clarity on where to connect the wires to it would be tremendous.

Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 29 March 2020, 00:31:01 »
More pics of the full PCB

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 29 March 2020, 06:17:09 »
Well that's not the most friendly PCB in the world...  Not gonna lie, it doesn't look like you've done a good job of the soldering but never mind.  Whatever's there is there, if it's not connecting anything it's not doing anything so no point removing it.  Sometimes you can scrape off the mask and solder to the traces and this does look tidier, but it's more risky and no-one sees the bottom of the PCB when it's back in it's case.  You can't here anyway - there's barely a trace from the diode pin and the other pin is connected on the switch side so you can't see it at all.  We'll just skip to the other end.

238851-0

Solder a little wire to the end of the diode (blue line) so you know that end is connected.  If the wire is stiff make sure it's cut and bent to fit before soldering and solder the switch end first, only solder to the diode once the wire is firmly attached and laying on the diode or you risk pulling it off.  Then test the switch - this may be enough to make it work.

If not short the red dots to either end of the blue line and hopefully one or more will output a space.  K51 is closest so the obvious choice but if the case goes through that big hole you will have to be careful when taking the PCB in or out, or you could use a little hot glue to hold it out the way if you have some.  Once you've chosen a working dot solder between it and the orange dot and all should be good.  Except maybe that period...  Can't get my head round the backside of a split PCB of unknown layout first thing in the morning so a switch number would be good if it's still playing up :))

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Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 14:18:13 »
Appreciate the kind words on my soldering skills lol  :-\ I'll try to get a better job done on the 2nd go around. Would it be safe to test the connections you mentioned by taping the wires to the ends you mentioned before I actually solder it? Also I'm a bit confused by the red connections, do you mean connecting the orange to any of the red connections? You said connect the red to either end of the blue which doesn't sound right. Thanks again. I'll be sure to post updates once I get the braid to start this project again.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 15:30:51 »
I would say that that would probably be safe, but holding wire down to multiple tiny contacts on a board with tape can be more work than just doing the soldering, especially if you're dealing with 4 separate contacts/pins and 2 separate wires like that, and debri like flux that might prevent good conduction.

Have you got any flux? Those solder blobs look a little dry. It does look like the pads are long gone, but you could try reflowing with a little flux quick too and seeing if that changes anything, as if there's anything left of the pad, still connected to the trace, the pins may just not be making a good connection. I imagine it wouldn't hurt anything at this point to try it.

I believe that he's saying to connect the pin that he's connected to the diode with a blue line to that end of the diode (with a wire), as that trace leads directly back to it at that location (as if his blue line is the wire, terminating at the contacts you should solder it to on either end), and test. If that doesn't fix it, then short any of the pads highlighted in red to the contact or pad you previously bridged with the blue wire (this you could do easy enough with a scrap bit of wire, just be careful what you bridge, not that it would be easy to screw up, even with really shaky hands). Once you find one that outputs a space when shorted to your blue wire, solder a wire from the switch leg highlighted in orange to the red pad/leg that outputted a space when it was shorted to the blue wire.

A keyboard switch is a momentary switch, so what he described is just finding another place that same trace leads to (since the one that leads directly to the pad you lifted is not on the bottom layer of the pcb), and then once you've found it, jump it to the orange switch leg by soldering a wire between them so that your space switch will once again be what shorts the two together, instead of the wire that you used to find the right trace.

Does that make sense?

Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 16:31:09 »
I bought some flux, high temp tape, and brushes for my next attempt. I'll try the following:

1. bridge blue line with some wire, see if it starts working.

2. Tape some wire to the same blue spot on the diode and test the red dots to see if it outputs a space, if one does, solder that red dot to the orange dot. Not sure why I just wouldn't test it on the orange dot tho, forgive my lack of electronics understanding...

Thanks again!

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 20:03:50 »
Scissors are my first choice for shorting pads because you can hold them in one hand touching one pad then touch the other blade to the other pad, wire needs a hand each end to be sure it's really connected.  Why to blue?  If you short to orange nothing will happen because the switch isn't pressed.  When you press the switch orange and blue become connected so by touching blue you're just bypassing the switch to see what happens.

This testing has to be done with the PCB upside down connected to a computer and would be completed quicker than it would take me to attach a piece of tape.  I'm really bad with tape though :))
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 20:12:43 »
Scissors are my first choice for shorting pads because you can hold them in one hand touching one pad then touch the other blade to the other pad, wire needs a hand each end to be sure it's really connected.  Why to blue?  If you short to orange nothing will happen because the switch isn't pressed.  When you press the switch orange and blue become connected so by touching blue you're just bypassing the switch to see what happens.

This testing has to be done with the PCB upside down connected to a computer and would be completed quicker than it would take me to attach a piece of tape.  I'm really bad with tape though :))

That was the goal, was it not? solder wire from switch leg to diode along blue line, test, if no luck, short red legs to blue leg until space registers, then solder a wire between the red point that worked to orange in order to repair the circuit? You left the last part a little ambiguous, so I filled in the gap. I'm no expert on keyboard matrices though.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 21:01:40 »
solder wire from switch leg to diode along blue line, test, if no luck, short red legs to blue leg until space registers, then solder a wire between the red point that worked to orange in order to repair the circuit?

Exactly!

I've helped with lots of these yet it's still a challenge to put into words what can be done in a few seconds so I land up rewriting it and losing bits, not helped by the fact that some boards have diodes on the left pins and some on the right and some pics are horizontal and some vertical so you can't just copy/paste a good version.  Thanks for filling in the blanks :thumb:
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Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 31 March 2020, 01:01:46 »
Totally bizzare but I bridged the blue line and then got a wire over to the closest red dot and nothing happened. Then I tried the other two red dots and I did get a keypress but it was typing "h" , not space! wtf.. lol wondering if something is royally F'd

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 31 March 2020, 05:56:28 »
That's why you're poking - you have to guess which switches the designer connected.  H and space are connected so you saw an H, it's just not what you want.  At least you know the diode works (allegedly they can die, I'm yet to see a case where one has)

You can see the diodes connecting up from D42 through D94 to D7 so the switches connected to them won't work but K22 might, or K53, K52, K37 or K80...  Looked again - randomly the diode is on the other pin on K81 so my red dot is in the wrong place :-[  Just fan out and try connecting the pin not connected to the diode of any switch to the blue until you get a space.  There will be one somewhere!
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Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 01:30:34 »
Clear across thee board there was one spot that outputted a space, yes!!!! Now going to put it back together for a test run. Still worried about possible debounce or other issue with the ghost period appearing every now and then. What’s even more bizarre is I noticed it happens more frequently when type of on the other side of the keyboard. Maybe this audio jack looking wife is damaged or something?

Offline OGProgrammer

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 01:51:15 »
Seems to work well, no ghost keys. Now I just gotta find the M key cap my 5 year old was playing with  :confused:

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Matias ergo Mac keyboard issue (already replaced switch)
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 06:07:15 »
You have to wonder what some keyboard designers are smoking when they come up with these designs, that's a very long jumper!  You won't see it with the case on and it works though, that's the main thing.

Good luck getting any sense out of a little person :))
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