Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)

[HungerMechanic]

Ducky's just a tier below Leopold and Varmilo. It's a bit more chunky and unrefined in design, stabs probably a little lesser. Keycaps are nice double-shot PBT, but may not have the best fit for everyone, and I think they're OEM profile.

[Riverman]

I had a Ducky One 2 for a while recently, and it was very nice.  Their newer designs are sleeker and lower profile than Leopold and Varmilo, but I hated how you can't see the lock lights, and the side-by-side markings on the number keys bugged me.  Ducky's keycaps are definitely OEM profile, which is nice if you want to use QMX Clips.  The Ducky One 2 with brown switches and QMX Clips was one of the nicest keyboards I've ever typed on.

[HungerMechanic]

Interesting - someone has written up reasons why they think MX Brown is less than it could be as a tactile switch. It's very detailed, and well-reasoned, although it may miss the overall point of "minimal response" that MX Brown is going for:

Cherry MX Brown: Tactile in all the wrong ways

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechSwitchReview/comments/j52imf/cherry_mx_brown_tactile_in_all_the_wrong_ways/

[Rob27shred]

Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.

However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?

Actually IME yes a Ducky would be a huge step up from a Corsair mech. Not sure about Corsair's latest lineup of boards, but their older ones were terribly designed & built especially considering what they charged for them! They were built just like Magicforce boards, a thin plastic bottom housing with a thin aluminium top housing that also served as the plate. Duckys on the other hand are pretty solid for a prebuilt. Decently thick high quality plastic housing (top & bottom housing) with a nice painted steel plate. I can't really speak to the quality of Corsair's KB PCBs since I've never owned one, but there is a constant stream of "Help my "insert key name here" key is chattering or not registering" posts pertaining to Corsair boards on r/mk. So I personally wouldn't expect a high quality PCB in a Corsair board.

[HungerMechanic]

Yeah, in that community, "Corsair" is practically a swear word.

[Jmarcelo]

I just got a ducky shine 7 with the "hyperglide" 100 MIO MX Browns in them. They feel and sound amazing(maybe because they're new?). No ping or crunch, very very smooth, negligible wobble in the housing and stem compared to the drop halos and gats I got in my sample sets.

 Honestly, they're still my favorite switch, with a pro purple coming close but I haven't tried it out beyond a switch tester.

I've tried the whole family of zeals, the Drop Halos(True/Clear), Gat brown, Kailh Copper/Box Brown, Aliaz 60/70g. Every single one front-loads the bump higher and higher up, so the tactility is derived from starting the press, not the experience of pushing it.

Why is it so damn hard to get an "enthusiast" switch with the bump closer to the middle? It's not "grainy" or "scratchy" it's the switch telling me that I've actuated the switch. I want some feedback, but I don't need a battle every time

[HungerMechanic]

Incredible. From your description, it sounds as if the "Hyperglide" MX Browns are actually manufactured properly. I would like to get my hands on some. How did you get yours? Pro Purple is also one of my favourite switches.

BTW your preferred switch type, in which the bump is closer to the middle, is basically classic Cherry-style tactility, as found on the MX Brown and MX Clear. As you indicated, in recent years, there has been a move towards super-tactile switches in which the bump is right at the top.

You might be pleased to know that there is a move back towards light and medium tactiles with middle-placement of the tactile event. You might want to look into the RARA V2, Shogoki and OxBlood switches, which are now in or soon entering GB here. Also, there is something called the Gateron Kangaroo, but I don't know much about it.

[HungerMechanic]

I should add, if you are a fan of light tactiles, you entered the customization realm at a bad time. From 2018 to most of 2020, it was all about the heavy tactiles. T1s, Zealio V2, Holy Panda.

Before that, at least light and mediums like Pro Purple, Speed Copper, OUTEMU Ice / Sky, BOX Brown, and Aliaz were getting some attention, despite whatever flaws they might have.

If you haven't used Pro Purples beyond a tester, I can share my own experience. I have a Teamwolf Zhuque full of Pro Purples and Speed Coppers [those being used on some modifiers and nav keys]. They seem to take well to being in an aluminum low-profile case, using Varmilo keycaps. I tried Pro Purples on a GMMK with various keycaps, and it wasn't the same. So metal case + Varmilo keycaps seem to combine well with these, for some reason.

I sent 30 of them to a lubing service to see if they could improve on the stock Pro Purples, which are scratchy and in need of lube. I haven't tested them yet, but there are many people out there lubing them, some with weird combinations, in order to improve them.

I like Pro Purples because it's a unique and interesting take on Brown-like tactility. The bump is at the top, sure. But it's somewhere between a Brown and a Clear. Then, like the Halo True, it becomes a relatively smooth linear. I think the tactile legs are even lubed. A daring combination, but I achieved my personal speed record with them.

[treeleaf64]

I'm very much liking Phoenix switches, which do have

Travel bump travel tactility. It's very nice to type on. I've achieved many of my typing records with this switch.

[HungerMechanic]

I just got a ducky shine 7 with the "hyperglide" 100 MIO MX Browns in them. They feel and sound amazing(maybe because they're new?). No ping or crunch, very very smooth, negligible wobble in the housing and stem compared to the drop halos and gats I got in my sample sets.

Could you tell me where you got this Ducky Shine 7?

[Jmarcelo]

Hey Hunger, thanks for all the tips on switches. I'll definitely look into them!

I got the shine 7 from mechanicalkeyboards.com.(IDK if it's against policy to hotlink the product page) They have both the all black "Blackout" and Gunmetal versions available. I ended up going with the gunmetal version as it would probably work with more sets better and there was an issue with the paint flaking off in earlier runs.

My box has a sticker on it from Cherry saying  "100 Million Actuations"  with a little badge at the top saying "100 MIO/1ms"

[HungerMechanic]

Thanks, JMarcelo. I'm familiar with MK.com, and have ordered a few times.

I checked the latest shipments of Shine 7. Looks like MK.com has some exclusive editions. I didn't see any 100M actuation Hyperglide stickers, but maybe that's only on the actual box. I'll get some hyperglide samples, and see if I want a keyboard containing them. [Less than 10 gunmetal Shiny 7s available now!]

With regard to custom switches, I would also add that the OxBlood switches under development here are attempting to resemble vintage Browns. So if you like well-made Browns, you might enjoy OxBlood. [I guess you can wait for the sample reviews.]

[Riverman]

I had forgotten how much I like browns until I bought the Mac version of the Das Keyboard 4.  With OEM profile keycaps and QMX Clips, it's great to type on and won't wake anyone up, but still make enough noise to know I'm typing on a mechanical keyboard.  The QMX Clips noticeably reduce the switch travel with Cherry profile keycaps, which I don't like.  I'd love to try the Hyperglide switches in this keyboard, but who knows when Das will ever use them.

[keystream]

I personally think that Retooled Browns sound amazing but I wish they were just a bit more tactile. I am also interested in Greetech browns, I am not sure how tactile they are but I love their sound.

I heard Velvet's Jane with browns and OML, it is insanely amazing. (but to be honest they are diff than retooled browns since velvets browns were vints, and they were lubed with the amazing GHV4 miracle lube)
You can listen to it here:

And I remember hearing ActualGlaciers Lyn Whale with Greetech browns, which I liked better
You can listen to it here:

[HungerMechanic]

When you say retooled Browns, do you mean retooled [circa 2017] or the new Hyperglides?

I've typed on both. The retooled actually sound pretty decent on a Varmilo. Low-pitched, thanks to the heavy plate.

The Hyperglides are nice to type on, for Browns, but they retain the high-pitched chatter of pre-tooled Browns in my experience.

[Aritega]

I'm still hoping one day there will be GBs of Hyperglide Browns with 5-pins.

[DALExSNAIL]

Browns good

[HungerMechanic]

Hey, what happened to OxBlood?

[aleck]

I personally don't like stock MX Browns because they are way too scratchy, however, I do enjoy the little tactility they have, would probably try a smooth housing with Brown stems if I had the chance, maybe even look for Vintage Browns?

[pr0ximity]

Browns good

the man knows.


Sent from my Whale V2 with 1838HPU Browns on POM half-plate using Tapatalk.

[JordanHall]

I've been using my SteelSeries 6gv2 mxbrown for 4 months, and yesterday my "control" start double clicking. Any fixes or suggestions?

[Aritega]

I've been using my SteelSeries 6gv2 mxbrown for 4 months, and yesterday my "control" start double clicking. Any fixes or suggestions?

Maybe it's dust going inside the switch? If you have a compressed air can, you can try blowing air inside the switch.

[azzipa]

been using kailh silent browns on a work board and enjoying them a lot. ‘noise’ (music!) of mx clears was not making me any friends. didn’t bother to check how typing speed might have been affected. i was already tracking IC for oxbloods and looking forward to picking some up when available.

[Crabby]

I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

Personally if people are averse to bottoming out they'd be much better off getting something like Topre or NIZ.

I don't hate MX browns and understand that some people might want a smaller tactile event, but I think even something like damped alps creams which are really easy to get are far more enjoyable in my opinion. Or even better as mentioned a low force Topre or NIZ. In my opinion it'd be better than mixing housings or trying to find "vintage" browns.

[Bitdrive]

Honestly I wouldn’t say I love them but I very much like them they just feel very familiar and are not trying to do anything fancy. I just like them as they are, a linear Switch with a bit of feedback to let you know you pressed the switch.

Maybe it’s because brown was the first thing I got after using a cheap membrane keyboard but honestly to me it felt like a nice step up and going back I still like them.

[DALExSNAIL]

I don't hate MX browns and understand that some people might want a smaller tactile event, but I think even something like damped alps creams which are really easy to get are far more enjoyable in my opinion. Or even better as mentioned a low force Topre or NIZ. In my opinion it'd be better than mixing housings or trying to find "vintage" browns.

alps shorter throw make them an entirely different category than MX browns, not to mention the much higher tactility. Browns are for hands that hurt, alps are for hands that hurt things.

As for topre, I've had to switch entirely to linears and light tactile MX specifically because topre is too tactile for my hand pain.

You're confused on why we like browns.

[DALExSNAIL]

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

The explanation he gave for floating on browns might not have come across correctly, browns have a quality to them that makes this feel subconscious. It's been pretty universal as far as I've found in browns users that:

A. They have faster speeds when using them
B. They feel "floaty" or "cushiony"

Browns dont have the tactility to support conscious attempts to not bottom out imo.

I do agree though, if people are actively trying to do this, its not viable.

[HungerMechanic]

Yes, the floating on Browns is a subconscious process, Browns are a 'subconscious' switch that doesn't require much from the user, and the not bottoming-out at full-force becomes an automatic process that makes possible sustained typing at lower energy.

[Polymer]

Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.

You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..

I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off.  But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...

[DALExSNAIL]

Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.

You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..

I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off.  But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...

I dont think anyone claimed that you couldn't lightly bottom out on other switches. The claim is simply that its not something they ever focused on, and they seem to move into that way of typing when using it without consciously making an effort to do it.

[Polymer]

Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.

You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..

I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off.  But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...

I dont think anyone claimed that you couldn't lightly bottom out on other switches. The claim is simply that its not something they ever focused on, and they seem to move into that way of typing when using it without consciously making an effort to do it.

They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility.   The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true. 

[azzipa]

Maybe I still need more coffee, but I'm a bit confused by this last comment. I'm not sure what you're referring to, "suggests none of that is true." None of which is true? The idea that 'many' people report lighter bottom out on Browns? Or the idea that it's possible to have a light bottom out on 'many' other switches? Or something else?

They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility.   The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true.

Since we're talking opinions here, my opinion is that people tend to make due with whatever keyboard they have in front of them. Some feel better than others, and some promote faster/more accurate typing than others.

My personal experience is that I type faster with lighter (perceived) bottom out on Browns than I do on heavier tactiles. I also prefer a light bump over a linear for office productivity. If you can get the typing experience you want with "most other switches" then celebrate diversity and the fact you're switch agnostic. At the same time, I don't think you'll convince people who like Browns that 'many' other switches can be an effective substitute, just like people who like linears or heavy tactiles won't be convinced light tactiles are the way to go.


PS - This is the <3 Brown thread, not the "you can... lightly bottom out on most other switches" thread. Maybe hit Unpopular Keyboard Opinions? 

[Polymer]

Maybe I still need more coffee, but I'm a bit confused by this last comment. I'm not sure what you're referring to, "suggests none of that is true." None of which is true? The idea that 'many' people report lighter bottom out on Browns? Or the idea that it's possible to have a light bottom out on 'many' other switches? Or something else?

They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility.   The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true.

Since we're talking opinions here, my opinion is that people tend to make due with whatever keyboard they have in front of them. Some feel better than others, and some promote faster/more accurate typing than others.

My personal experience is that I type faster with lighter (perceived) bottom out on Browns than I do on heavier tactiles. I also prefer a light bump over a linear for office productivity. If you can get the typing experience you want with "most other switches" then celebrate diversity and the fact you're switch agnostic. At the same time, I don't think you'll convince people who like Browns that 'many' other switches can be an effective substitute, just like people who like linears or heavy tactiles won't be convinced light tactiles are the way to go.


PS - This is the <3 Brown thread, not the "you can... lightly bottom out on most other switches" thread. Maybe hit Unpopular Keyboard Opinions? 

I do love browns.  I'll address that first.  Simply because I'm stating a fact that you can lightly bottom out on most other switches does not equate I don't love browns.  That's a ridiculous statement.  I've not stated I prefer other switches and in fact, I'm a constant defender of browns. 

But going to your original confusion...Someone stated that you feel the tactility of browns subconsciously because they're so subtle...And because of that, you're able to bottom out lightly.    But if other switches (even linear) also allow you to bottom out lightly, then that statement about what the light tactility subconsciously allows you to do, is false.  I don't doubt that you subconsciously acknowledge or expect the slight tactility, I think you most definitely do...but that has nothing to do with lightly bottoming out. 

[pr0ximity]

Finally we have arrived at the true reason why Browns are the best switch.

I congratulate you all.



EDIT: Just finished lubing and stickering 45g cww Browns, now they just need a home..

[tex_live_utility]

So "hyperglide" browns are really a thing? I see a store listing here https://www.ukkeycaps.co.uk/product/cherry-mx-switches but haven't seen a similar listing anywhere else. Is there someone in North America selling these? Or is this the vendor giving a misleading product description?

[limitz]

Modern browns suck

Vint browns goated

Hyperglide browns ?

[azzipa]

@hungermechanic: i totally appreciate your posts on keebtalk when it comes to ‘light tactiles’. ordered some 62g u4’s and also some 55g (long) TX springs to test.

@dalexsnail: i’m really hoping to support oxbloods

@nooneinparticular (that’s a joke) my kailh silent box browns still are not clicky (that’s no lie). unmodded.

[ramnes]

Just found this video the other day:

Frankly, I think that's one of the best sounding keyboard on YouTube.

[macclack]

Jeez that's nice

[HungerMechanic]

I put in IEMs to listen to this.

A little high-pitched, and sharp at peak, but overall a rounded and pleasant sound.

Maybe the vint Brown hype is real.

I have some Pewter switches on the way. They aren't Vint Browns, but they're said to be nice.

[azzipa]

posted on reddit by zipthatlip. too good not to cross post (pls excuse double negative)

[bkrownd]

  I don't fap to keyboard ASMR (whatever) sound tests, but Browns feel absolutely OK to my delicate digits. 

[Crabby]

As for topre, I've had to switch entirely to linears and light tactile MX specifically because topre is too tactile for my hand pain.

You're confused on why we like browns.

I don't think most people who use MX browns are in crippling hand pain. Maybe I don't understand why people like browns but to me 35g niz feel about as linear as browns but smoother and softer.

[HungerMechanic]

@hungermechanic: i totally appreciate your posts on keebtalk when it comes to ‘light tactiles’. ordered some 62g u4’s and also some 55g (long) TX springs to test.

@dalexsnail: i’m really hoping to support oxbloods

@nooneinparticular (that’s a joke) my kailh silent box browns still are not clicky (that’s no lie). unmodded.

Thanks, I'm glad you find my posts helpful. Were we already discussing them on other forums?

When it comes to "light tactiles" that are silent, I prefer the Silent Forest stems, as U4 is definitely in the medium-to-heavy category.

[sefixmm]

Personally i like brown when they are used, they are no more scratchy at all

[blur410]

I appreciate this thread. Cherry's molds for their nylon switches seemed subpar every time I have tried them, but their polycarb switches do feel oddly smooth, as found on newer corsair boards. That being said Ilove my light tactile topres, enough to own an HHKB.

[macclack]

I was inspired by all these posts to try Greetech Browns for for my 7v build.

'

The spacebar still needs some tuning but overall I think it sounds nice.

[pr0ximity]

I was inspired by all these posts to try Greetech Browns for for my 7v build.

'

The spacebar still needs some tuning but overall I think it sounds nice.

Nice! I’ve still yet to try Browns on anything smaller than a TKL. Maybe some day.

I’ve got some Pewters on the way too. It sounds like they’re the true second-coming of Browns, so we’ll see. Not sure what I’ll put them in yet.

[azzipa]

Nice! I’ve still yet to try Browns on anything smaller than a TKL. Maybe some day.

I’ve got some Pewters on the way too. It sounds like they’re the true second-coming of Browns, so we’ll see. Not sure what I’ll put them in yet.

i just picked up some pewters on pre-order from parallel. they look interesting.

[HungerMechanic]

I have them. To me, they feel like 'different' Browns, rather than Browns that are a clear-cut above Cherry.

The factory lubing is kind of blotchy or not entirely consistent, so you can feel it more than you should while operating the switch. Actuation weight or resistance is higher than expected, but bottom-out is still lightweight.

I think that another alternate Brown switch like SP Star Meteor (orange) actually has a lower and more ergonomic actuation than Pewter. Even my 65 G [14mm] Ergo Clears do. Pewter kind of lacks that big ergonomic force curve that Browns/Clears have. Maybe it's just my switches.

The good part about Pewter is the factory molds. The tightness of the switch is something to behold. Almost no wobble whatsoever, and less wobble than any other light tactile in my inventory.

The sound is also okay. Not great, just okay. With factory lube, it's deeper and more resonant than it would be otherwise. It's still kind of high-pitched compared to hand-lubed switches, like my Ergo Clears. So the sound isn't amazing, just better-than-unlubed. JWK/Durock can be higher-pitched and plasticy sounding if not generously hand-lubed, and I don't think Pewter is an exception.

So Pewter is a tight switch that doesn't sound awful, but I'm not sure it fulfills the role of "light tactile" magnitudes better than MX Brown, if at all. Maybe better hand-lubing would enhance the operation of the switch, though.