Yay! no need to over pay for the switches. Hopefully they are identical to R1 ;Dexcept the logo ;D
Wow, this is possibly the biggest news in the custom keyboard community this year.Yep. You need to get some Halo stems.
Somebody explain please - what exactly do I need to convert these to Holy Pandas? Just Halo stem, right? Bottom housing, upper housing, leaf and spring are already here - is this correct?
Yep. You need to get some Halo stems.
Yep. You need to get some Halo stems.
Damn. I still can't believe this is happening.
Now would be the great time to make another run of Halo stems. Who makes them, are they Massdrop's property? Somebody should urge them to make R2, now is the perfect time.
You can buy halo switches on massdrop right now
Yep. You need to get some Halo stems.
Damn. I still can't believe this is happening.
Now would be the great time to make another run of Halo stems. Who makes them, are they Massdrop's property? Somebody should urge them to make R2, now is the perfect time.
You can buy halo switches on massdrop right now
You can buy halo switches on massdrop right now
Wow, thanks for the info. I guess sales will explode tonight LOL
Guess it closed already. I think another round is suppose though
How are you going to do it when the R1 housing was destroyed and Pete has come out saying that all the new housings they've tried don't feel the same.
I mean, it's obvious that pretty much nobody wants to use Pandas as they are. The real reason why people went nuts over these switches is frankenswitch market and combining with either Halo True, Halo Clear or Otemu stems.
Now, making another run of Pandas looks like a difficult job from more than one perspective. First of all, original molds are supposed to be destroyed. Second, material that used to make Panda tops is thought to be POM, but lately it has been proven that it actually isn't. Instead, it's some unusual nylon mixture.
Without extensivr consultation with original makers, I highly doubt it's possible to make another run anything like the first one, because you need to have:
- exact dimensions (we've all seen how badly +/-0.1mm can **** things up on recent example of Box switches)
- exact nylon mixture used (otherwise, they wont feel or sound the same)
But, with all that being said, I'm not saying it's not possible to make someting as good, or maybe even much better than the first run. For example, maybe real POM tops, or even complete POM housing would provide even better platform for frankenswitches.
Anyway, I'll wait for reviews. If prominent community membeers say it's good - then it's good.
And I hope this whole thread is not just a trollfest.
Novelkeys is supposed to be dropping a totally-pom housing 'cream' switch at some point- def excited for that
Novelkeys is supposed to be dropping a totally-pom housing 'cream' switch at some point- def excited for that
Novelkey Cream switches are indeed made of POM, but first reviews I saw were not especially good. They are not bad switches by any means, but they have certain "stutter" feel to them when you press them from unexpected angles. At least, that's what I heard.
I feel like we're due for some clarification. What is OPs connection to the previous GB runners? What's the deal with the moulds?
Wow, this is possibly the biggest news in the custom keyboard community this year.
Somebody explain please - what exactly do I need to convert these to Holy Pandas? Just Halo stem, right? Bottom housing, upper housing, leaf and spring are already here - is this correct?
I feel like we're due for some clarification. What is OPs connection to the previous GB runners? What's the deal with the moulds?
There's no connection. The molds were destroyed according to Invyr.
several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...
What I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch
While happy this is happening, I don't quite understand why. The reason panda switches have become sought after is to create holy pandas and with several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...
What I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch, when there will be a single switch that will give a similar or better experience, other than just switch science?
several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...
And those would be?QuoteWhat I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch
Actually, it would be good idea to create new Panda without any kind of stem. Just two-piece housing and a leaf.
Price would be lower for sure, and nobody is going to use Panda stem anyway.
several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...
And those would be?
several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...
And those would be?
As of now, Hako royals are similar, I know that is KBDfans is working on holy panda clone, and of course Zeal has stated his V2 Zealiios will be more tactile than Holy Pandas.
I mean, it's obvious that pretty much nobody wants to use Pandas as they are. The real reason why people went nuts over these switches is frankenswitch market and combining with either Halo True, Halo Clear or Otemu stems.Thanks for your comment. I've already invited Walkerstop to test New Pandas. The video which you post are made by him. It made by the same manufactory. I will invite some professional guys to design a new stem or new switch later, but not this GB.
Now, making another run of Pandas looks like a difficult job from more than one perspective. First of all, original molds are supposed to be destroyed. Second, material that used to make Panda tops is thought to be POM, but lately it has been proven that it actually isn't. Instead, it's some unusual nylon mixture.
Without extensive consultation with original makers, I highly doubt it's possible to make another run anything like the first one, because you need to have:
- exact dimensions (we've all seen how badly +/-0.1mm can **** things up on recent example of Box switches)
- exact nylon mixture used (otherwise, they wont feel or sound the same)
But, with all that being said, I'm not saying it's not possible to make someting as good, or maybe even much better than the first run. For example, maybe real POM tops, or even complete POM housing would provide even better platform for frankenswitches.
Anyway, I'll wait for reviews. If prominent community members say it's good - then it's good.
And I hope this whole thread is not just a trollfest.
Let’s try our best to bring that panda back instead of paying 6 bucks per piece after market :)Thanks for your support. It will come true.
I'm skeptical. Do you have samples?
several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...
And those would be?
As of now, Hako royals are similar, I know that is KBDfans is working on holy panda clone, and of course Zeal has stated his V2 Zealiios will be more tactile than Holy Pandas.
IMHO tactility itself does not make holy panda so unique; it's the smoothness, and the rounded bump starting from the top
You should present your old mold. It was made based on bsun's mold. You guys [Invyr & 27] changed the logo on top. Then you made a new mold of top by your classmate because of the prime cost (I'm not sure whose classmate). In fact, the yield rate of Pandas you made with new mold can only reach 70%. I use the original mold that not signed Invyr and made by you. New Pandas are made by same factory, and it will use the original mold. Topclack and Walkerstop will prove what I said about the material of my New Pandas.
I'm just gonna C/P part of the discussion over here from reddit. This is the OP talking.QuoteYou should present your old mold. It was made based on bsun's mold. You guys [Invyr & 27] changed the logo on top. Then you made a new mold of top by your classmate because of the prime cost (I'm not sure whose classmate). In fact, the yield rate of Pandas you made with new mold can only reach 70%. I use the original mold that not signed Invyr and made by you. New Pandas are made by same factory, and it will use the original mold. Topclack and Walkerstop will prove what I said about the material of my New Pandas.
Sooooo... If I managed to figure this out correctly, there are somewhere (presumably in China) original molds for making Pandas. These are not the same molds used to produce R1 Pandas, but instead, Invyr took these as a basis to make his own mould with his signature on it. This mold was not very good, as it had only 70% yield rate.
Anyway, this case is becoming even more interesting, basically material for a crime novel with lots of twist and turns LOL. Can't wait to see what happens next.
Traduced means: there are no Invyr Panda molds (confirmed from OP of Invyr) but there are Bsuns molds, so he is probably trying to make Pandas from Bsuns.
Which should be already tried and failed in the past afaik
Traduced means: there are no Invyr Panda molds (confirmed from OP of Invyr) but there are Bsuns molds, so he is probably trying to make Pandas from Bsuns.
Well, aren't Invyr Pandas based on Bsuns too? If so, then the only possible route to try to make another run is same as he did.QuoteWhich should be already tried and failed in the past afaik
It's not like we're trying to make autonomus Mars lander for Christ's sake. I realize it may be a delicate job to reproduce a tiny piece of plastic, but it's far from impossible.
Without even questioning that 27 first and later Pete probably tried all this route of making again a Panda as good as the first round, without success for more than a year and they had access to the same molds of this guy (27 had access to his old molds too theorically).
However, there is a possiblity Invyr simply didn't wanted to pay for the new mold and this guy did it from his own pocket, so there's that.
My impression (disclaimer: conjecture) is that the first run of Invyr Pandas got supremely lucky. The mold made things almost too tight - the housing was tight around the slider, and the fit between housing top and bottom was also extremely snug.
This is entirely based upon what the guy wrote in the reddit thread about how the R2 Panda samples, based on bsun molds, the top and bottom housing fit was looser.
I feel like this is why it's a challenge - they're trying to re-engineer a fortunate mistake. Especially if it's within tolerances. At that point you're having a mold machined and hoping for the error on the smaller side of the tolerances. I guess if you have cash to burn you can repeat this process until you get the desired result. But then again you can also hit random letters on a keyboard and eventually get a complete work of Shakespeare.
Hi, guys.
I'm really happy to announce that I will bring Panda Switch back.
It will be the same as the existing Panda Switch except the logo. （the same leaf, the same spring, the same stem...)
I will invite TopClack and Walkerstop to confirm if the New Pandas are as same as existing Pandas.
Update later after I received the samples.
Don't worry about the risk. GB will be ran after Topclack and Walkerstop confirmed.
I know too many guys hate me now because New Pandas is too closely related to their interests. So I won't reply before Topclack and Walkerstop confirmed
Considering one mold would cost somewhere around $1500 it's not cheap to play hit and miss, but it's doable.
No way, the demand was too high, they tried.
Considering one mold would cost somewhere around $1500 it's not cheap to play hit and miss, but it's doable.
You're right, but one would also need to sell quite a few switches to recoup the cost of making a couple molds just to hit the sweet spot :)
No way, the demand was too high, they tried.
Actually, what they wrote is that they tried to make R2 using the same mold as R1 but the tolerances were off because mold was fixed and never the same as it was new.
They never said they tried to make another mold after that, at least I didn't saw that anywhere.
No, I mean Invyr.
This whole discussion would be so much easier if only original Panda makers would be willing to chime in and explain what really happened.
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9md09u/icnew_original_panda_linear_switch/e7e3v8h).
In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.
This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
The words he's using and his denial rather than addressing of concerns is what has me worried this could be a scam. If he was taking money I'd 100% be convinced this was untruthful, right now I'm only about 50% given the evidence to the contrary and the lack of substance to his claims.
Sorry for my bad, and thanks for your explaining. I've edited. New Pandas won't let you down.I agree. But it appears English is not his first language though, he may have had a hard time expressing things fully.This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
The words he's using and his denial rather than addressing of concerns is what has me worried this could be a scam. If he was taking money I'd 100% be convinced this was untruthful, right now I'm only about 50% given the evidence to the contrary and the lack of substance to his claims.
Anyway, I would wait to see TopClack's verdict.
No, I mean Invyr.
I mean, a $5 switch, request was so high, i'm sure they tried everything. Probably Pete tried too later and is trying to do something since a year or so.
Panda is a lot of money in demand, it would be stupid to think that they gived up so easy.
Mark my words, what OP is offering is a BSUN with a fancy housing.
If they’re able to come through with a switch that’s identical to the original pandas, that’s great, but personally I don’t think it’s right to actually use the Panda name if the original makers aren’t involved. This is particularly true given that the original makers are already rumoured to be doing the same thing...
Just call it something else.
Holy Ayylmao's :cool:Make the stem red and just call it a Red Panda
If it happens it happens, Good for OP wanting to recreate identical or any other party for that matter.My dude, theres an [IC] for aristotle stems on /r/mechmarket rn :D
That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!
Just looked, Thank you for telling me!If it happens it happens, Good for OP wanting to recreate identical or any other party for that matter.My dude, theres an [IC] for aristotle stems on /r/mechmarket rn :D
That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!
I just have a question about holy panda. If you use any other springs (not the panda spring), does the feel of holy panda changes?
Make the stem red and just call it a Red Panda
That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!
OP should have taken a more stealthy move by giving the sample to a few prominent individuals to confirm before opening an IC and get many negative unexpected skeptics.My opinion as well
From a buyer's viewpoint, there is nothing to rant about this IC, it costs you nothing while OP assures he will get someones to confirm the genuineness of his product. Even if the sample turned out not genuine, bad things would happen to OP, not you, buyers. Your money, your choice, why are you so upset?
All of the activity, positive and negative, this topic has generated is technically fulfilling the purpose of an IC though :) Whether you think the OP is simply lying or not, I don't think a person that has posted in this thread isn't interested in another round of Panda switches.OP should have taken a more stealthy move by giving the sample to a few prominent individuals to confirm before opening an IC and get many negative unexpected skeptics.My opinion as well
From a buyer's viewpoint, there is nothing to rant about this IC, it costs you nothing while OP assures he will get someones to confirm the genuineness of his product. Even if the sample turned out not genuine, bad things would happen to OP, not you, buyers. Your money, your choice, why are you so upset?
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
I'll be satusfied with three opinions. If you like boxing, you've seen they have three judges too.
If you want more, than wait for people to buy them and read customer reviews.
You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.
I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.
- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English
- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"
- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf
- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany
- GB is going this month
Curious, what's your sources on claims 2 and 3? Where has this been said/established?
You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.Thanks for your comment. I really suck at arguing in English. Some guys managed to bring the discussion off track. I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed. zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold. He decided to use goldplated springs instead of original springs in his Pandas R2. Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.
I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.
- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English
- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"
- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf
- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany
- GB is going this month
:thumb:You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.Thanks for your comment. I really suck at arguing in English. Some guys managed to bring the discussion off track. I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed. zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold. He decided to use goldplated springs instead of original springs in his Pandas R2. Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.
I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.
- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English
- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"
- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf
- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany
- GB is going this month
I feel bad for SuperVan for getting roasted in the Reddit thread and here.
Guy wants to bring switches that are highly sought after back to market, and everyone has already made the decision that they know everything there is to know about molds, housings, materials, and anything else involved with them. Yet only 3 or 4 people seem to have seen first hand any of the relevant information.
I don't get why people who can't even afford the current switches are basically so skeptical and calling this guy a liar when he's doing an IC rather than a group buy. He's not asked anyone for money, and he's getting samples to the right people before even proceeding further. The faux gatekeeping in this community is really off putting IMO.
Anyway, I hope this all pans out and we see some more Pandas on the market at reasonable prices.
I feel bad for SuperVan for getting roasted in the Reddit thread and here.
Guy wants to bring switches that are highly sought after back to market, and everyone has already made the decision that they know everything there is to know about molds, housings, materials, and anything else involved with them. Yet only 3 or 4 people seem to have seen first hand any of the relevant information.
I don't get why people who can't even afford the current switches are basically so skeptical and calling this guy a liar when he's doing an IC rather than a group buy. He's not asked anyone for money, and he's getting samples to the right people before even proceeding further. The faux gatekeeping in this community is really off putting IMO.
Anyway, I hope this all pans out and we see some more Pandas on the market at reasonable prices.
I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed.
zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold.
Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.
The leaf of New Pandas are made in Germany. Bsuns are made in China.
yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit. A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.
While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.
Okay, so the story slowly unfolds. But I still can't quite wrap my mind around all this because some details are missing. Let's try to clarify.I've told you all information about New Pandas. If you want to know more, you can ask zisb. I won't conjecture his ideas. All I need to do is making sure that the New Pandas are the same as original Pandas. Focusing on New Pandas, but not the story. There's no comment about others. It's my right to keep something a secret.I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed.
What exactly do you mean by saying "original molds"?
Are those the molds that are used to produce BSUN switch?
Or are those molds used to produce Inyr Panda switch?
Those two molds should be different molds because of the obvious reasons - BSUNs don't have Invyr logo on them.Quotezisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold.
Okay, so if I managed to decipher this correctly - what you want to say is this: after the first round of Invyr Panda switch, they had an idea to maximise profit by making cheaper low-quality mold for Panda R2. This is what caused ****ked up Panda switches with loose tops.
At some point, they realized their mistake and decided to make a new high quality mold, but it was kinda late because you already paid for the new mold from your own pocket.
So, essentially, this is a timerace who will get Panda R2 to the market first. Whoever does it, makes a lot of money.
If this is correct, then I was completely right with my first assumption in this thread, when I said there is a possibility Invyr simply didn't put enough money into this (which is perfectly justifiable from the bussiness perspective, just to be clear).QuoteCorrect a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.
Actually, what you said is this:QuoteThe leaf of New Pandas are made in Germany. Bsuns are made in China.
What I still don't understand is this:
- If Panda switches are basically BSUN switches, why did you have to pay for new molds? You could just use existing ones.
- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?
- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?
yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit. A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.
While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.
Seems to be the norm these days. Easier to flame someone who wants to push the envelope or provide something never done, rather than sit back and be patient. It's the same people that scream when they want more keys in a keyset GB, without the price being raised. It's the same people who look down on others because they don't "grasp the quality" of spending $600 on a keyboard.
It's getting lost in the hobby that you're supposed to be doing what you want, for you. Not for others....
So among possible outcomes.
- As Pete mentioned: OP contacted the factory and received some impossible promise (i.e. 'yes, molds exist') and on this reassurance OP is requesting samples.
- Due to OP being Chinese, perhaps a language barrier is overcome and BSUN molds were located that are consistent with the 'happy mistake' that resulted in the Invyr Panda.
- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?
You've been following the reddit thread too right?
There's a couple possibilities here. Both Pete and zisb confirmed that leaf, spring, and slider(? I think?) were matching the original Pandas in the samples they received previously.
So among possible outcomes.
- As Pete mentioned: OP contacted the factory and received some impossible promise (i.e. 'yes, molds exist') and on this reassurance OP is requesting samples.
- Due to OP being Chinese, perhaps a language barrier is overcome and BSUN molds were located that are consistent with the 'happy mistake' that resulted in the Invyr Panda.
In any case, we wait. OP plans for a GB at the end of the month, leading me to infer that he's waiting on samples to send out for testing already. In any case, we'll know how this iteration of the attempt to create Invyr Panda r2 in a lot shorter time frame than we wait for SP to finish a keycap production run ;)
Lastly, @SuperVan - send a sample to Nathan Kim (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMHXMAeKkI6HXlPfLiYvo9g) to test as well!
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?Not sure if serious but if you are, glass has a higher coefficient of friction compared to the plastics commonly used for stems. There’s also the issue that most glass is quite a bit more brittle than most plastics unless you’re talking about expensive “gorilla glass” type materials. Finally, glass isn’t as compressible as POM so you’d probably get a lot of cracked keycap stems. Think Boxgate x 2.
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?Not sure if serious but if you are, glass has a higher coefficient of friction compared to the plastics commonly used for stems. There’s also the issue that most glass is quite a bit more brittle than most plastics unless you’re talking about expensive “gorilla glass” type materials. Finally, glass isn’t as compressible as POM so you’d probably get a lot of cracked keycap stems. Think Boxgate x 2.
Only positive vibes please.Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?Not sure if serious but if you are, glass has a higher coefficient of friction compared to the plastics commonly used for stems. There’s also the issue that most glass is quite a bit more brittle than most plastics unless you’re talking about expensive “gorilla glass” type materials. Finally, glass isn’t as compressible as POM so you’d probably get a lot of cracked keycap stems. Think Boxgate x 2.
Jimi 2.0
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?Jimi noooooooo!
yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit. A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.
While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.
yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit. A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.
While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.
I very much agree that SuperVan doesn't deserve the heat he is getting, but it is in no way comparable to Kailh and box stems. Of course users don't know what the stem issues are - most of us are not material scientists. We don't know how polymers deform/fracture. Most of us do not have the tools to measure things accurately to a tenth of a millimetre. Nevertheless, box switches have a very real problem with the design of the cruciform/stem. Thats real, and it isn't Kailh figuring it out. Its people spending their own money and sacrificing their own keycaps to confirm a hunch. I have personally spent over €120 on keycaps and switches that are now either broken or unusable. I don't think its unreasonable to point out theres a problem and spend your own money trying to figure it out because the manufacturer of the switch hasn't.
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9md09u/icnew_original_panda_linear_switch/e7e3v8h).
In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.
This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)
retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)
get some lube on there and you're set.
everything else is trash.
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)
retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)
get some lube on there and you're set.
everything else is trash.
I concur.
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9md09u/icnew_original_panda_linear_switch/e7e3v8h).
In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.
This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).
Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam.
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9md09u/icnew_original_panda_linear_switch/e7e3v8h).
In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.
This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).
Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam.
It is pre-mature and outright wrong to suggest with the connotation that this is a scam. Let's just wait for this to unfold. There are enough people warning about this not being legit, I am sure people understand the risk.
Personally, I don't care who will make it, OP, KBDfans, or 1up, or Invyr, just sell it for ~1 dollar each piece, plus halo and a customized spring it will be around $1.6-1.7 bucks. Still reasonable. $6 is a crazy price I cannot afford.
Holy panda for everyone!
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9md09u/icnew_original_panda_linear_switch/e7e3v8h).
In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.
This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.
I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).
Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam.
It is pre-mature and outright wrong to suggest with the connotation that this is a scam. Let's just wait for this to unfold. There are enough people warning about this not being legit, I am sure people understand the risk.
Personally, I don't care who will make it, OP, KBDfans, or 1up, or Invyr, just sell it for ~1 dollar each piece, plus halo and a customized spring it will be around $1.6-1.7 bucks. Still reasonable. $6 is a crazy price I cannot afford.
Holy panda for everyone!
I highly doubt and still smell the disappointment when a $1 BSUN dressed as a Panda will arrive, but yeah let's hope and pretend this will go alright (I honestly do)
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)
retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)
get some lube on there and you're set.
everything else is trash.
I concur.
Been hearing good things about Greetech Blacks as well.
Tried so many combinations and they're all just disappointing in the end.
retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)
get some lube on there and you're set.
everything else is trash.
Tried so many combinations and they're all just disappointing in the end.
Just like life itself.
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
Please take my upvote.As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.
-Quakemz of Top Clack
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.
-Quakemz of Top Clack
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.
-Quakemz of Top Clack
Would love to see a Haata force curve come out of this.As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.
-Quakemz of Top Clack
100 pandas to give out!!!
If OP has that many samples to give out, it's probably impossible that he is trying to run a scam :) Hoping for the best!
Thanks again, Brian.
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.
-Quakemz of Top Clack
Word that makes sense, I was under the impression he'd be sending like 5-10.
Though I'm not 100% sure what he is sending, he told me 300, so I figure a maximum of 100 each for myself and Huey to build a board and test, then the rest can be sent to other people for their own testing. Walker will also be receiving samples, and he's been GREAT on the science-front lately, in this hobby.
Do you have any security mechanism, any way to be assured these are not just regular Pandas bought long time ago with new tops?
As I said on reddit:
Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.
If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.
-Quakemz of Top Clack
I knew SuperVan since early 2017. As a friend, I know he's a keyboard enthusiast and he usually wants to try some new idea to play/make keyboard stuff. Several weeks ago we chatted about the switches. He asked me whether I'm interested in Holy Panda switches. You know, I'm kind of old school(or out of fashion to be honest) on installing switches in my keyboards. Till now I only use Cherry Blue and Clear for my keyboards. I ranted to him about the expensiveness of the Panda switch aftermarket prices. As for Holy Panda switch, IMO it's bloodily wasteful to buy two expensive switches, take out one piece of each to make one switch only and then give rid of the left like rubbish. SuperVan said he planned to give a try to change this, by producing Panda housings and some tactile stems like Halo stems, assembled right in the production line, so that regular users don't have to do this expensive, wasteful mod. The first step of his try would be to produce Panda housings and he already contacted the factory to get some samples.
For the record, I don't know much about Holy Panda switches, or Panda linear switches. Never touch them. This thing is out of my interests and I'm not gonna go bail for everything SuperVan said or did. Actually we didn't agree on everything, for example, I suggested him to use another name rather than "Panda" but he had different ideas on how to make it work commercially. And I don't think it's the best for him to bring it up so early without real product. IMO He didn't manage to carry on the IC thread well because his English is poor, he didn't unfold all info and it's too easy for him to get emotional and take it personal on criticisms. But I do think he is able to book some production line and make some amount of some switches. I'm not sure whether he would succeed in bringing his complete idea of "some tactile Holy Panda made as one switch in factory" into reality in the end, but I don't think he aims to put up a scam.
At what point are we just going to sit and wait patiently for the samples to be sent, and let the reviewers/testers, who are well respected, do their job? I'm sure they'll be able to tell differences and note if anything looks fishy..
At what point are we just going to sit and wait patiently for the samples to be sent, and let the reviewers/testers, who are well respected, do their job? I'm sure they'll be able to tell differences and note if anything looks fishy..
I don't think you understood what I wrote, although it was quite simple, so I'm going to try again.
If somebody sends you a switch for testing - and a switch looks the same, feels the same and sounds the same as an old switch - except for the top with the a new logo - how are you going to tell if this is a genuinely new switch, or an old switch with a new top? Assuming you don't have Harry Potter's magic wand, the answer is - you can't.
So it looks to me it would be smart on the maker's side to make it in some new colors altogether. I don't want that the idea of using Panda name backfires on him.
Also, there is one thing giving me reassurance more than anything else that this is not a scam, and that's the fact that KBDfan said on reddit he knows this guy personally. In fact, looks like they're friends.
That by itself doesn't mean he'll be able to produce a product comparable to original Panda, but I hope he does. I'll buy at least 150 pieces.
Honestly does it matter that much? Everybody gets scratchy pandas again and all is well..
This is a IC right? "what is panda switch.." :D
This is a IC right? "what is panda switch.." :D why is there no information on the IC? other then a hypothesis :p
This is a IC right? "what is panda switch.." :D
It's a switch made of bamboo, duh...
This is a IC right? "what is panda switch.." :D why is there no information on the IC? other then a hypothesis :p
Holy Panda is the legendary Meme switch combining Panda housing and Halo stem
What I'm really interested in finding out is how does lubbed Zealiostotle compare to lubbed Holy Panda.
I've never seen such comparison. Has anyone ever tried both?
Yeah. Why not?
Is a clicky switch, you will loose the click and tactility. It will end up being a expensive switch that's not preferably nice to type on IMO.
Well each switch his own.. But i would rather take my luck with the bamboo switch... :cool:Quote from: RETURNISO
Is a clicky switch, you will loose the click and tactility. It will end up being a expensive switch that's not preferably nice to type on IMO.
I don't know, I would have to try both first.
Just because it's clicky doesn't mean it's not supposed to be lubed, although it would affect sound for sure.
Chyrosran22 was talking about this somewhere when he was reviewing MX Blue, a switch that should be coming factory-lubed, and yet it doesn't (at least not contemporary generation).
At what point are we just going to sit and wait patiently for the samples to be sent, and let the reviewers/testers, who are well respected, do their job? I'm sure they'll be able to tell differences and note if anything looks fishy..
I don't think you understood what I wrote, although it was quite simple, so I'm going to try again.
If somebody sends you a switch for testing - and a switch looks the same, feels the same and sounds the same as an old switch - except for the top with the a new logo - how are you going to tell if this is a genuinely new switch, or an old switch with a new top? Assuming you don't have Harry Potter's magic wand, the answer is - you can't.
So it looks to me it would be smart on the maker's side to make it in some new colors altogether. I don't want that the idea of using Panda name backfires on him.
Also, there is one thing giving me reassurance more than anything else that this is not a scam, and that's the fact that KBDfan said on reddit he knows this guy personally. In fact, looks like they're friends.
That by itself doesn't mean he'll be able to produce a product comparable to original Panda, but I hope he does. I'll buy at least 150 pieces.
Honestly does it matter that much? Everybody gets scratchy pandas again and all is well..
This was a line of discussion about a hypothetical scenario where a guy bought 100 pandas on mechmarket, puts new tops on them and sends them to testers. Testers say OK, 500 people buys new switches and get some cheap white switches instead. Guy puts money in his pocket and runs away. Do you get it now?
I don't think that's what's going to happen, but that was the matter of discussion.
Well each switch his own.. But i would rather take my luck with the bamboo switch... :cool:
No, not really. But it's apparently a big deal to you though. They're just switches, and terrible ones at that.
Well each switch his own.. But i would rather take my luck with the bamboo switch... :cool:
Funnily enough, just today I've seen first Zealios V2 arriving to reviews. They all say these are much more tactile than those before. It would be pretty unexpected unfolding of events if it turns out they are actually better than Holy Pandas.No, not really. But it's apparently a big deal to you though. They're just switches, and terrible ones at that.
If you pay 100 euros for something, and then get by mail some plastic garbage instead of those switches that reviewers got, yeah, I'd say it's a pretty ****kin big deal.
Well each switch his own.. But i would rather take my luck with the bamboo switch... :cool:
Funnily enough, just today I've seen first Zealios V2 arriving to reviews. They all say these are much more tactile than those before. It would be pretty unexpected unfolding of events if it turns out they are actually better than Holy Pandas.No, not really. But it's apparently a big deal to you though. They're just switches, and terrible ones at that.
If you pay 100 euros for something, and then get by mail some plastic garbage instead of those switches that reviewers got, yeah, I'd say it's a pretty ****kin big deal.
Not as big as you're making it out to be.
I think someone potentially misleading customers into spending >100 dollars is a big deal. That's not a small amount of cash.
Well each switch his own.. But i would rather take my luck with the bamboo switch... :cool:
Funnily enough, just today I've seen first Zealios V2 arriving to reviews. They all say these are much more tactile than those before. It would be pretty unexpected unfolding of events if it turns out they are actually better than Holy Pandas.No, not really. But it's apparently a big deal to you though. They're just switches, and terrible ones at that.
If you pay 100 euros for something, and then get by mail some plastic garbage instead of those switches that reviewers got, yeah, I'd say it's a pretty ****kin big deal.
Not as big as you're making it out to be.
Just for reference, I genuinely wish the best for SuperVan and his venture, and that this is fulfilled without issue and all parties involved come out happy.
However, many scammers do thing legit before scamming. Many ebay scammers will sell small, cheap items in order to gain eBay rep then list an expensive item which is in fact a scam in one way shape or another. I am not saying this is what SuperVan is doing, or has done, but what I am saying is to be wary. These are extremely grand promises and other than him sending a relatively small sample to be distributed to various personalities we have no assurance those promises will be met. Again, I'm not trying to say SuperVan is here to scam us, I am just preaching caution so that on the off chance something is indeed amiss here you're not left with the short end of the stick.
With your logic, every GH GB can be a scam and every seller can be a scammer :)
Whether what he said is extremely grand or not, we will find out soon I think.
Also, I think most people are on alert already. Just let OP do his thing and work this out.
I also saw someone (not you) criticizing him in recent posts start selling their holy pandas on r/mechmarket. I will not put names here though.
If there is a conflict of interest, better disclose and not panic and smear.
With your logic, every GH GB can be a scam and every seller can be a scammer :)
Whether what he said is extremely grand or not, we will find out soon I think.
Also, I think most people are on alert already. Just let OP do his thing and work this out.
I also saw someone (not you) criticizing him in recent posts start selling their holy pandas on r/mechmarket. I will not put names here though.
If there is a conflict of interest, better disclose and not panic and smear.
I've got a strong preference for linears, so yeah not much conflict from me.
As for what other gbers promise, most tend to follow a set formula and promise more or less the same thing. The issue here is we're deviating from the formula with promises that also deviate from the norms. This raises red flag, as innovation can sometimes just be a mask for malice and I really don't want to see anyone hurt here. If he makes a good product I'm sure he'll sell plenty, I just don't want there to be a gigantic initial sale and then it's discovered he over promised massively and duped the reviewers somehow, meanwhile he's laughing all the way to the bank, as unlikely as that may be.
Funnily enough, just today I've seen first Zealios V2 arriving to reviews. They all say these are much more tactile than those before. It would be pretty unexpected unfolding of events if it turns out they are actually better than Holy Pandas.
Funnily enough, just today I've seen first Zealios V2 arriving to reviews. They all say these are much more tactile than those before. It would be pretty unexpected unfolding of events if it turns out they are actually better than Holy Pandas.
Cool, do you have a link? ( sorry off topic )
Going to wipe my hands of this but wanted to post one more thing. The comments in this thread are why the Mech community is going to end up dying off. I mean seriously who wants to invest time and money into a community/Hobby that has the toxicity of nuclear waste plant.
Cool, do you have a link? ( sorry off topic )
Though I'm not 100% sure what he is sending, he told me 300, so I figure a maximum of 100 each for myself and Huey to build a board and test, then the rest can be sent to other people for their own testing. Walker will also be receiving samples, and he's been GREAT on the science-front lately, in this hobby.
Do you have any security mechanism, any way to be assured these are not just regular Pandas bought long time ago with new tops?
I think someone potentially misleading customers into spending >100 dollars is a big deal. That's not a small amount of cash.
He just feels like trolling today.
Time to sell all holy pandas before price crash! PM me, i buy them at pre-crash price $2ea :p
There is no toxicity in preaching caution about r1 of a switch that has massive potential for returns. You severely underestimate just how far some people will go to make a cheap buck. Again, I'm not saying SuperVan is here to scam the community, I just don't think with the current information we have for these switches the optimism from some people is warranted.
Please stop moralizing, your whole post is completely unnecessary and not very well aligned with the facts about Pandagate. There are various pieces of the puzzle that don't match up and people are either interested or concerned.
It's pretty funny because I'm pretty sure I've noticed more people than usual selling off their holy pandas/panda switches on mm. Gotta cash in on that on the chance that the new switches are identical I guess.
It's pretty funny because I'm pretty sure I've noticed more people than usual selling off their holy pandas/panda switches on mm. Gotta cash in on that on the chance that the new switches are identical I guess.
Will these be PCB-mount?
Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
It's pretty funny because I'm pretty sure I've noticed more people than usual selling off their holy pandas/panda switches on mm. Gotta cash in on that on the chance that the new switches are identical I guess.
Yes I have noticed this trend as well, pandas are everywhere on mm now
It's pretty funny because I'm pretty sure I've noticed more people than usual selling off their holy pandas/panda switches on mm. Gotta cash in on that on the chance that the new switches are identical I guess.
Yes I have noticed this trend as well, pandas are everywhere on mm now
I've been contemplating getting rid of them cause I'm leaning towards linears now lol
It's pretty funny because I'm pretty sure I've noticed more people than usual selling off their holy pandas/panda switches on mm. Gotta cash in on that on the chance that the new switches are identical I guess.
Yes I have noticed this trend as well, pandas are everywhere on mm now
Please stop moralizing, your whole post is completely unnecessary and not very well aligned with the facts about Pandagate. There are various pieces of the puzzle that don't match up and people are either interested or concerned.
Pandagate??? :))
He'll stop moralizing when you stop vilifying OP. You had some crazy theories that he's just going to bait and switch the testers, which makes you part of the negativity and unnecessary drama...
Funnily enough, just today I've seen first Zealios V2 arriving to reviews. They all say these are much more tactile than those before. It would be pretty unexpected unfolding of events if it turns out they are actually better than Holy Pandas.
Will these be PCB-mount?
Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
... I strongly urge you to visually distinguish these from Panda R1 to dispel any doubt and make it easy to tell from R1 and R2.
I really want you to succeed, so I can finally get my hands on some Holy Pandas. However, I strongly urge you to visually distinguish these from Panda R1 to dispel any doubt and make it easy to tell from R1 and R2.
... I strongly urge you to visually distinguish these from Panda R1 to dispel any doubt and make it easy to tell from R1 and R2.
So on this premise should kaihl also have visually distinguished a R1 box switch from their "fixed" R2 box switch?
Should also Cherry visually distinguish a silent black switch with incorrect spring weights from a corrected silent black switch?
I mean this way we can tell a difference right?
Asking for a friend.
... I strongly urge you to visually distinguish these from Panda R1 to dispel any doubt and make it easy to tell from R1 and R2.
So on this premise should kaihl also have visually distinguished a R1 box switch from their "fixed" R2 box switch?
Should also Cherry visually distinguish a silent black switch with incorrect spring weights from a corrected silent black switch?
I mean this way we can tell a difference right?
Asking for a friend.
I really want you to succeed, so I can finally get my hands on some Holy Pandas. However, I strongly urge you to visually distinguish these from Panda R1 to dispel any doubt and make it easy to tell from R1 and R2.
R1 say "INVYR" on them, and it seems Invyr is not involved in this project, so that likely won't be a problem.
... I strongly urge you to visually distinguish these from Panda R1 to dispel any doubt and make it easy to tell from R1 and R2.
So on this premise should kaihl also have visually distinguished a R1 box switch from their "fixed" R2 box switch?
Should also Cherry visually distinguish a silent black switch with incorrect spring weights from a corrected silent black switch?
I mean this way we can tell a difference right?
Asking for a friend.
The difference is in both of your cited cases the manufacturer doesn't change.
This, on the other hand, is a completely different person building a completely new product off a new mold and saying it's the same as someone else. It's like if Cherry decided it was going to make box switches we'd probably want osme kind of system to differentiate between cherry/kailh box switches.
It's the same factory, and OP has said the OG Panda mold was not destroyed.
Uhhhhhh. The original moulds that 27 and I used for the pandas no longer exist - atleast in the state that they were for the original run.
Bsun do have very simmilar moulds but they are not the exact same.
It's the same factory, and OP has said the OG Panda mold was not destroyed.
That might be correct but unrelevant. Quoting OG Panda runner:QuoteUhhhhhh. The original moulds that 27 and I used for the pandas no longer exist - atleast in the state that they were for the original run.
Bsun do have very simmilar moulds but they are not the exact same.
>atleast in the state that they were for the original run
implies they if there was, they tried and that didn't produced a REAL Panda.
any updates ?
What's happened here then?
A huge announcement > Pandas dropped to $3 - at the same time it's come to light that remaking Pandas is not looking so likely > SuperVan disappears
- Waiting to see how Pandas become the new Bitcoin.
Possible timeline:
SuperVan returns > new switches are Pandas > reasonable price is what they sold for originally
Likely timelines:
SuperVan returns > new switches are expensive bsuns, no real change
SuperVan doesn't return > old Pandas are now $18 a switch > "someone" dumps a bunch of Pandas they bought for $3 a switch during Pandagate
What's happened here then?
A huge announcement > Pandas dropped to $3 - at the same time it's come to light that remaking Pandas is not looking so likely > SuperVan disappears
- Waiting to see how Pandas become the new Bitcoin.
Possible timeline:
SuperVan returns > new switches are Pandas > reasonable price is what they sold for originally
Likely timelines:
SuperVan returns > new switches are expensive bsuns, no real change
SuperVan doesn't return > old Pandas are now $18 a switch > "someone" dumps a bunch of Pandas they bought for $3 a switch during Pandagate
What's happened here then?
A huge announcement > Pandas dropped to $3 - at the same time it's come to light that remaking Pandas is not looking so likely > SuperVan disappears
- Waiting to see how Pandas become the new Bitcoin.
Possible timeline:
SuperVan returns > new switches are Pandas > reasonable price is what they sold for originally
Likely timelines:
SuperVan returns > new switches are expensive bsuns, no real change
SuperVan doesn't return > old Pandas are now $18 a switch > "someone" dumps a bunch of Pandas they bought for $3 a switch during Pandagate
Or Zealios v2 wrecks the panda market entirely
To be honest, just use retooled blues.
They're so close to HPs, even at a $1 for Panda housing the price is a bit much.
To be honest, just use retooled blues.
They're so close to HPs, even at a $1 for Panda housing the price is a bit much.
Retooled blues would be perfect if it wasn't for the binding issue on the housings. You have to drill the housings.
What's happened here then?
A huge announcement > Pandas dropped to $3 - at the same time it's come to light that remaking Pandas is not looking so likely > SuperVan disappears
- Waiting to see how Pandas become the new Bitcoin.
Possible timeline:
SuperVan returns > new switches are Pandas > reasonable price is what they sold for originally
Likely timelines:
SuperVan returns > new switches are expensive bsuns, no real change
SuperVan doesn't return > old Pandas are now $18 a switch > "someone" dumps a bunch of Pandas they bought for $3 a switch during Pandagate
To be honest, just use retooled blues.
They're so close to HPs, even at a $1 for Panda housing the price is a bit much.
Retooled blues would be perfect if it wasn't for the binding issue on the housings. You have to drill the housings.
To be honest, just use retooled blues.
They're so close to HPs, even at a $1 for Panda housing the price is a bit much.
Retooled blues would be perfect if it wasn't for the binding issue on the housings. You have to drill the housings.
In my experience it only happened with GMK caps. But, from what i'm reading it may more have to do with the dimensions of the keycap, so ymmv. You'll have to just test/experiment.
Isn't this only an issue with certain keycaps?
Watch, this was totally just an elaborate plot to lower panda prices for a brief period of time to let OP grab some switches and disappear lmao
Watch, this was totally just an elaborate plot to lower panda prices for a brief period of time to let OP grab some switches and disappear lmao
I've sent the new panda samples to Quakemz, Walkerstop, MMKB and Nathan Kim more than a week. They will present all information to you guys and compare with the old samples after they received the samples. Detractors won't stop defaming me whether new pandas is as same as old pandas (except the logo) or not. They are all stakeholders. The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little. I sympathize with these detractors because of their embarassment currently. Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished. Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things. Actually I have finshed running a GB successfully last year. If you hate me, you can attack me with your current evidence. Defaming with out any evidence is a pitiable display. Shame on these stupid rumormongers. I don't expect someone will support me. Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
I've sent the new panda samples to Quakemz, Walkerstop, MMKB and Nathan Kim more than a week. They will present all information to you guys and compare with the old samples after they received the samples. Detractors won't stop defaming me whether new pandas is as same as old pandas (except the logo) or not. They are all stakeholders. The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little. I sympathize with these detractors because of their embarassment currently. Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished. Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things. Actually I have finshed running a GB successfully last year. If you hate me, you can attack me with your current evidence. Defaming with out any evidence is a pitiable display. Shame on these stupid rumormongers. I don't expect someone will support me. Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
I was told the package was shipped to me last Monday. I imagine it will arrive soon. I will of course be letting my thoughts be known here once I experiment with them and tune them the same as I tuned the original holy panda board.
I've sent the new panda samples to Quakemz, Walkerstop, MMKB and Nathan Kim more than a week. They will present all information to you guys and compare with the old samples after they received the samples. Detractors won't stop defaming me whether new pandas is as same as old pandas (except the logo) or not. They are all stakeholders. The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little. I sympathize with these detractors because of their embarassment currently. Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished. Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things. Actually I have finshed running a GB successfully last year. If you hate me, you can attack me with your current evidence. Defaming with out any evidence is a pitiable display. Shame on these stupid rumormongers. I don't expect someone will support me. Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
I've sent the new panda samples to Quakemz, Walkerstop, MMKB and Nathan Kim more than a week. They will present all information to you guys and compare with the old samples after they received the samples. Detractors won't stop defaming me whether new pandas is as same as old pandas (except the logo) or not. They are all stakeholders. The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little. I sympathize with these detractors because of their embarassment currently. Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished. Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things. Actually I have finshed running a GB successfully last year. If you hate me, you can attack me with your current evidence. Defaming with out any evidence is a pitiable display. Shame on these stupid rumormongers. I don't expect someone will support me. Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.OMEGALUL
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
So are these pandas?
I've sent the new panda samples to Quakemz, Walkerstop, MMKB and Nathan Kim more than a week. They will present all information to you guys and compare with the old samples after they received the samples. Detractors won't stop defaming me whether new pandas is as same as old pandas (except the logo) or not. They are all stakeholders. The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little. I sympathize with these detractors because of their embarassment currently. Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished. Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things. Actually I have finshed running a GB successfully last year. If you hate me, you can attack me with your current evidence. Defaming with out any evidence is a pitiable display. Shame on these stupid rumormongers. I don't expect someone will support me. Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.Instructions unclear, bought a Bible and it didn't come with Holy Pandas. Jesus must be disappoint.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
I've sent the new panda samples to Quakemz, Walkerstop, MMKB and Nathan Kim more than a week. They will present all information to you guys and compare with the old samples after they received the samples. Detractors won't stop defaming me whether new pandas is as same as old pandas (except the logo) or not. They are all stakeholders. The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little. I sympathize with these detractors because of their embarassment currently. Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished. Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things. Actually I have finshed running a GB successfully last year. If you hate me, you can attack me with your current evidence. Defaming with out any evidence is a pitiable display. Shame on these stupid rumormongers. I don't expect someone will support me. Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.can you rename the switch to jesus linear switch? i just want to have some holy jesus in my boards
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
can you rename the switch to jesus linear switch? i just want to have some holy jesus in my boards
looking forward for the reviews
looking forward for the reviews
I remember you, KaosJ, you were among the unbelievers.
You did not have faith in our lord SuperVan, son of David, and thus you shall not dwell in tactile feedback until you repent of all you did.
lel, i'm still a unbeliever but now i love Jesus a bit more
Most of these people on this thread are shameful at best, haters and skeptics when in reality they don't know whats going on at all. its funny and sad. Lots of you should grow up or learn how the world works. You cant live your life off hear say. However hope the reviews come out soon im intrigued.
lel, i'm still a unbeliever but now i love Jesus a bit more
It's alright, he loves you anyway. And he's watching this thread.Show Image(https://i.imgflip.com/k5cz1.jpg)
In my theological reading, the panda switch was Jesus all along, and this is his ressurection. The switch was crucified after release when the reception became 'this is just a bad scratchy linear, ew'. It was through the teachings of the top clack apostles that the church of the Holy Panda was
you know what I won't finish this incredibly lame post but I will submit to inflict it on somebody else
so when is the sample gonna be dispatched? very curious whether it could stand up or not
I had no interest in these whatsoever, but am now gonna fill a board with these switches so this legendary moment in the keeb community can live on at my fingertips and in my heart.
I'm having a religious experience.
I really hope that these arent as scratchy as the originals. I actually wanna use em as linears lol.
I really hope that these arent as scratchy as the originals. I actually wanna use em as linears lol.
I hear they will be exact the same as og pandas. so they will be a bit scratchy.
I am pretty sure if you make them not scratchy people will say they are not og pandas.
I just got a tracking number; I can do some force curve graphs when I get them in next week.
The plot thickens.
God help us all.
I'm sitting on a few hundred stock pandas. Send me some samples and can test for the AU community. :thumb:
Hopefully supervan can deliver, then I don't have to treat these pandas like gold :)
I'm sitting on a few hundred stock pandas. Send me some samples and can test for the AU community. :thumb:
Hopefully supervan can deliver, then I don't have to treat these pandas like gold :)
Look at this guy flexing.
So am I, hook us up!
I have been sitting on these damn halos for months, finally I want to taste some Holy pandas.
Just watched Nathan Kim's stream of him trying the new Holy Jesus. I'm sold. It sounds like the OG Holy Panda (apart from the spring.)
I wonder how much it would cost to make new Holy Pandas from this GB and from Halos.
Where can you see Nathan kim trying the new panda? There's nothing on youtube
Where can you see Nathan kim trying the new panda? There's nothing on youtube
Twitch.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/341691791Where can you see Nathan kim trying the new panda? There's nothing on youtube
Twitch.
Post a link.
Where can you see Nathan kim trying the new panda? There's nothing on youtube
Twitch.
Post a link.
Twitch.
I wonder how much it would cost to make new Holy Pandas from this GB and from Halos.
Probably a bit over a dollar (50¢ per halo, ~64¢ a panda (based on the previous 110 for 70$))
Twitch.
When did he get a new twitch? I was trying to find it on an old account ffs
I wonder how much it would cost to make new Holy Pandas from this GB and from Halos.
Probably a bit over a dollar (50¢ per halo, ~64¢ a panda (based on the previous 110 for 70$))
I believe new panda will cost more than 1 dollar per pcs. Will see
I wonder how much it would cost to make new Holy Pandas from this GB and from Halos.
Probably a bit over a dollar (50¢ per halo, ~64¢ a panda (based on the previous 110 for 70$))
I believe new panda will cost more than 1 dollar per pcs. Will see
Lmfao. Wants to bring pandas back, but still at a high price??? Come on.
Lmfao. Wants to bring pandas back, but still at a high price??? Come on.
Lmfao. Wants to bring pandas back, but still at a high price??? Come on.
These are not expensive? at 64 cents these are like 15% of the current market price of a panda housing?
Also look at any of premium zeals or new Arctos switches. If you expected a custom switch to be sold for as cheap as their mass produced peers, you need to seriously check your assumptions and expectations of small run manufacturing.
Even the new NK Cream Switches are priced similarly.
Yeah, I was waiting for this. Ok, guys, I'm ready for this new pandas. I would say: shut up and take my money!. We will need halos too, maybe a GB for the halos?
What the fuk is wrong with you all, who said anything about prices. You are literally fighting over someones expectations. LMAO
Well, I expect they will cost $35 dollars a piece.
And when you open the switch, you get one pill of ecstasy or some other psychoactive drug, to get in touch with Jesus more easily.
There's 1 company only that owns the rights to Halos...
Where are you seeing 64 cents? He literally just said a dollar if not more. You need to check your info.
I wonder how much it would cost to make new Holy Pandas from this GB and from Halos.
Probably a bit over a dollar (50¢ per halo, ~64¢ a panda (based on the previous 110 for 70$))
I believe new panda will cost more than 1 dollar per pcs. Will see
Where are you seeing 64 cents? He literally just said a dollar if not more. You need to check your info.I wonder how much it would cost to make new Holy Pandas from this GB and from Halos.
Probably a bit over a dollar (50¢ per halo, ~64¢ a panda (based on the previous 110 for 70$))
I believe new panda will cost more than 1 dollar per pcs. Will see
Always happy to double check my info! One question though, who's "He"? The individuals quoted above are not the OP. I based my 64 cents on the estimate from the original 110 for $70. But my point still stands, even if they sold for $1.25 per switch, you're still looking at a 75% discount from market prices of $5 per HOUSING. Also, this thread is evidence that people are still more than happy to pay at least that amount. Furthermore, Many people compare the Panda experience to SKCM Alps, which regularly go for $1+ per switch.
Do you mind sharing where you got your $1 / switch estimate?
So your argument is over an old gb price? Also, it doesn’t matter what the switch compares to. If this gb turns out like the way it should, there’s gonna be A LOT of pandas on the market. The reason why alps and pandas cost a lot is because there isn’t enough supply for the demand. Alsp isn’t that demanding, but it’s still rare. Oldcat seems like he’s in ties with Supervan so I trust what he says and I never said that the pricing was ultimate. All I’m saying is that supervan has very high hopes of getting pandas to everyone, but IMO, a switch that costs over a dollar is ridiculous. No one is content with zeal’s switch pricing. There’s literally a meme about his pricing, but people will always buy the switches, doesn’t mean they’re happy with it. You also seem to be taking everyone’s excitement as “I WILL PAY FOR THE SWITCH NO MATTER WHAT”. Just cause people are excited doesn’t mean they would be happy with the potential price.
Lmfao. Wants to bring pandas back, but still at a high price??? Come on.
So your argument is over an old gb price? Also, it doesn’t matter what the switch compares to. If this gb turns out like the way it should, there’s gonna be A LOT of pandas on the market. The reason why alps and pandas cost a lot is because there isn’t enough supply for the demand. Alsp isn’t that demanding, but it’s still rare. Oldcat seems like he’s in ties with Supervan so I trust what he says and I never said that the pricing was ultimate. All I’m saying is that supervan has very high hopes of getting pandas to everyone, but IMO, a switch that costs over a dollar is ridiculous. No one is content with zeal’s switch pricing. There’s literally a meme about his pricing, but people will always buy the switches, doesn’t mean they’re happy with it. You also seem to be taking everyone’s excitement as “I WILL PAY FOR THE SWITCH NO MATTER WHAT”. Just cause people are excited doesn’t mean they would be happy with the potential price.
My argument is not about old vs new prices. I assumed that was pretty clear when I conceded that even at $1.25, it would still be a fair market value for the new switch.
My argument is against your statement:Lmfao. Wants to bring pandas back, but still at a high price??? Come on.
and the points I was trying to make are:
1. The statement came off entitled. This person is here to solve a supply issue in the community, and when they are able to offer a product at a 75% discount of the current market price, this is still not enough for you.
2. The statement is unproductive.
3. "high price" is a relative term, and I was pointing out that if you compare these to other endgame switches like SKCM alps, its not actually that high.
4. These switches are not going to be produced in anywhere close to the quantity that "regular" Cherry/Gatreon switches are produced and thus comparing the prices between the two is unfair.
Apologies if these were unclear in my initial response.
What I see in this thread is that someone is trying to do something for the community, and the community is ****ting on them without due cause. There is absolutely no evidence that the GB runner is pricing these unfairly or with a "predatory" mindset. The GB runner already overcame all the initial nay-sayers by producing a switch that is actually very close to the original Invyr Panda and now that this has been independently verified by reviewers, the community wants to start complaining about the HYPOTHETICAL price.
If you don't like the way a GB is run, don't join the GB. But please be respectful to the GB runners.
So your argument is over an old gb price? Also, it doesn’t matter what the switch compares to. If this gb turns out like the way it should, there’s gonna be A LOT of pandas on the market. The reason why alps and pandas cost a lot is because there isn’t enough supply for the demand. Alsp isn’t that demanding, but it’s still rare. Oldcat seems like he’s in ties with Supervan so I trust what he says and I never said that the pricing was ultimate. All I’m saying is that supervan has very high hopes of getting pandas to everyone, but IMO, a switch that costs over a dollar is ridiculous. No one is content with zeal’s switch pricing. There’s literally a meme about his pricing, but people will always buy the switches, doesn’t mean they’re happy with it. You also seem to be taking everyone’s excitement as “I WILL PAY FOR THE SWITCH NO MATTER WHAT”. Just cause people are excited doesn’t mean they would be happy with the potential price.
My argument is not about old vs new prices. I assumed that was pretty clear when I conceded that even at $1.25, it would still be a fair market value for the new switch.
My argument is against your statement:Lmfao. Wants to bring pandas back, but still at a high price??? Come on.
and the points I was trying to make are:
1. The statement came off entitled. This person is here to solve a supply issue in the community, and when they are able to offer a product at a 75% discount of the current market price, this is still not enough for you.
2. The statement is unproductive.
3. "high price" is a relative term, and I was pointing out that if you compare these to other endgame switches like SKCM alps, its not actually that high.
4. These switches are not going to be produced in anywhere close to the quantity that "regular" Cherry/Gatreon switches are produced and thus comparing the prices between the two is unfair.
Apologies if these were unclear in my initial response.
What I see in this thread is that someone is trying to do something for the community, and the community is ****ting on them without due cause. There is absolutely no evidence that the GB runner is pricing these unfairly or with a "predatory" mindset. The GB runner already overcame all the initial nay-sayers by producing a switch that is actually very close to the original Invyr Panda and now that this has been independently verified by reviewers, the community wants to start complaining about the HYPOTHETICAL price.
If you don't like the way a GB is run, don't join the GB. But please be respectful to the GB runners.
Unproductive how? I stated my opinion that I feel like the switches shouldn't be priced high. Since you wanna compare switches. Arctos switches are 75c each and they are also lubed. That is a fair price since they are lubed, doesn't matter if they are lubed by hand, that's extra work and deserves to be priced higher. It makes sense. And as Virgith said, we're gonna pay 1.25 for a meme switch that has to be used as another part to make a holy panda otherwise it's mediocre switch. Just because I made one comment you say its ****ting on him? You cannot be serious. You're acting as if he is a child that needs defending.
When the mold and whoever machined the mold is 5k miles away, things can be uncertain.
Guess we will find out soon enough.
I'm a newcomer and I don't know all the story about Invyr and Holy Pandas, but SuperVan deserves all my respects: he promised to bring back to life the Panda, being the same switch but with bsun logo and he has accomplished. So I will like to beg to the community some patience and gratitude, this person and other collaborators are doing the best effort so all of us can enjoy the Panda-phenom. Thank you
Arrow sells retooled blacks at 20 cents a switch. Random person Jesus' pandas, a substantially worse stock linear, back from beyond the grave to make meme switches at over a dollar a switch.Pm
Next.
Hi, guys. Please stop arguing.
1. About the price. I've thought the price out before October. I've prepared a lot of new pandas for guys who will join the GB making sure they will receive their new pandas soon after the GB ended. The MOQ of new pandas will be 10k. The price per switch will be 1.5dollar - 10k, 1.2dollar - 20k, 1dollar - 50k. Considering what I have paid for them, I think it will be a reasonable price. It's your right that you can choose to buy new pandas or not. I fully respect your thoughts. But pricing was based on how much I've paid for new pandas. It sucks that some guys try to attack me for another new reason, I haven't even given my price yet before the reply! How can you criticize the price before I announced？By your own imaging? Stop being immature, you guys are all adults.
2. About the GB. I will run the GB after quakemz and manofinterests tested new panda samples. I really respect them and thanks for their contributions. I will satisfy some guys' requirements renaming the 'New Panda' to 'Gsus (not Jesus)'.
Thanks for all the supports. Let's look forward to the GB.
Hi, guys. Please stop arguing.
1. About the price. I've thought the price out before October. I've prepared a lot of new pandas for guys who will join the GB making sure they will receive their new pandas soon after the GB ended. The MOQ of new pandas will be 10k. The price per switch will be 1.5dollar - 10k, 1.2dollar - 20k, 1dollar - 50k. Considering what I have paid for them, I think it will be a reasonable price. It's your right that you can choose to buy new pandas or not. I fully respect your thoughts. But pricing was based on how much I've paid for new pandas. It sucks that some guys try to attack me for another new reason, I haven't even given my price yet before the reply! How can you criticize the price before I announced？By your own imaging? Stop being immature, you guys are all adults.
2. About the GB. I will run the GB after quakemz and manofinterests tested new panda samples. I really respect them and thanks for their contributions. I will satisfy some guys' requirements renaming the 'New Panda' to 'Gsus (not Jesus)'.
Thanks for all the supports. Let's look forward to the GB.
Nathan Kim just covered these new Holy Jesus on his channel. Come check it out guys. Looks very promising!
Yea I think he did make a final comment regarding how own opinion. He said SuperVan was right about this. The new switch sounds and feels similar to his Holy Pandas. We don't know yet about other reviewer, but Nathan already confirmed that this new line up of Holy Pandas is legit.Nathan Kim just covered these new Holy Jesus on his channel. Come check it out guys. Looks very promising!
Did he talk about tactility at all? I had time only to check for few minutes and only thing i could see was sound (where even an outemu sky can do that sound more or less)
Also did anyone test other stems too or take the leaf out or compared the tops? Making a comparison only with halo may be kinda incomplete
Yea I think he did make a final comment regarding how own opinion. He said SuperVan was right about this. The new switch sounds and feels similar to his Holy Pandas. We don't know yet about other reviewer, but Nathan already confirmed that this new line up of Holy Pandas is legit.Nathan Kim just covered these new Holy Jesus on his channel. Come check it out guys. Looks very promising!
Did he talk about tactility at all? I had time only to check for few minutes and only thing i could see was sound (where even an outemu sky can do that sound more or less)
Also did anyone test other stems too or take the leaf out or compared the tops? Making a comparison only with halo may be kinda incomplete
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Supervan Gsus $1.5 = "Paying a bounty hunter to find the dirty old molds Mech27 and Invyr hid in the desert, then got betrayed by the bounty hunter when the molds were held for ransom, hence the $1.5"
Why are you guys holding so much grudge against SuperVan? He is here with the promise of bringing back Holy Pandas, and based on the review we had so far, I'd say he delivered his game. I'm here for the switches. I couldn't care less about all the other drama alias pretending bull****. It's very simple. If the switch lives up to its expectation, join the GB. If it doesn't, leave in silence. I want to see this community grows, so please give the guy some room to breathe.Supervan Gsus $1.5 = "Paying a bounty hunter to find the dirty old molds Mech27 and Invyr hid in the desert, then got betrayed by the bounty hunter when the molds were held for ransom, hence the $1.5"
Don't forget part of the story where he supports himself under false identity.
In the end, we'll find our that SuperVan is actually Mech27, pretending to be someone else, that way stabbing Invyr in the back and getting all the money and pussies for himself.
For the community to grow there needs to be trust.Why are you guys holding so much grudge against SuperVan? He is here with the promise of bringing back Holy Pandas, and based on the review we had so far, I'd say he delivered his game. I'm here for the switches. I couldn't care less about all the other drama alias pretending bull****. It's very simple. If the switch lives up to its expectation, join the GB. If it doesn't, leave in silence. I want to see this community grows, so please give the guy some room to breathe.Supervan Gsus $1.5 = "Paying a bounty hunter to find the dirty old molds Mech27 and Invyr hid in the desert, then got betrayed by the bounty hunter when the molds were held for ransom, hence the $1.5"
Don't forget part of the story where he supports himself under false identity.
In the end, we'll find our that SuperVan is actually Mech27, pretending to be someone else, that way stabbing Invyr in the back and getting all the money and pussies for himself.
For the community to grow there needs to be trust.I just don't see the reason why we even need to worry about all the drama behind the original molds being destroyed or Bsuns' mold vs. 27's mold or whatnot. Just pay attention to the damn switch and whether or not it feels the same to the original pandas. I couldn't care less about where Supervan got his mold from or where he manufactures these switches. The only thing I care about is the end result, whether or not it lives up to its hype. Save all the cat story behind for another day, those are not the point of an interest check.
It's not holding grudges, but making clear how this came to be. Sometimes the ends justifies the means but not everyone likes to support those means. Let's take SPRiT: so many buy from even though they know they scammed people years back and there are other that will never buy from them.
Loving the Gsus name. Thanks for your efforts SuperVan! Hoping quakems and manofinterests get to create and share impressions of a Holy Gsus ("True Gsus"?) in their review. Would be nice to see how they compare to Zealios v2.
Definitely in for 100+, pending reviews.
I wonder if people got this excited in the OG resurrection, or if this is just a Second Coming phenomenon.
Loving the Gsus name. Thanks for your efforts SuperVan! Hoping quakems and manofinterests get to create and share impressions of a Holy Gsus ("True Gsus"?) in their review. Would be nice to see how they compare to Zealios v2.
Loving the Gsus name. Thanks for your efforts SuperVan! Hoping quakems and manofinterests get to create and share impressions of a Holy Gsus ("True Gsus"?) in their review. Would be nice to see how they compare to Zealios v2.
You already have that, watch the review of Zealios v2.
Oh sick, thanks! Will check it out!
For the community to grow, you have to compare me with SPRiT. Even if I have never scrammed anyone. What a reason!For the community to grow there needs to be trust.Why are you guys holding so much grudge against SuperVan? He is here with the promise of bringing back Holy Pandas, and based on the review we had so far, I'd say he delivered his game. I'm here for the switches. I couldn't care less about all the other drama alias pretending bull****. It's very simple. If the switch lives up to its expectation, join the GB. If it doesn't, leave in silence. I want to see this community grows, so please give the guy some room to breathe.Supervan Gsus $1.5 = "Paying a bounty hunter to find the dirty old molds Mech27 and Invyr hid in the desert, then got betrayed by the bounty hunter when the molds were held for ransom, hence the $1.5"
Don't forget part of the story where he supports himself under false identity.
In the end, we'll find our that SuperVan is actually Mech27, pretending to be someone else, that way stabbing Invyr in the back and getting all the money and pussies for himself.
It's not holding grudges, but making clear how this came to be. Sometimes the ends justifies the means but not everyone likes to support those means. Let's take SPRiT: so many buy from even though they know they scammed people years back and there are other that will never buy from them.
$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!It seems that you think new pandas can't hit 20k.
$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!It seems that you think new pandas can't hit 20k.
For the community to grow, you have to compare me with SPRiT. Even if I have never scrammed anyone. What a reason!For the community to grow there needs to be trust.Why are you guys holding so much grudge against SuperVan? He is here with the promise of bringing back Holy Pandas, and based on the review we had so far, I'd say he delivered his game. I'm here for the switches. I couldn't care less about all the other drama alias pretending bull****. It's very simple. If the switch lives up to its expectation, join the GB. If it doesn't, leave in silence. I want to see this community grows, so please give the guy some room to breathe.Supervan Gsus $1.5 = "Paying a bounty hunter to find the dirty old molds Mech27 and Invyr hid in the desert, then got betrayed by the bounty hunter when the molds were held for ransom, hence the $1.5"
Don't forget part of the story where he supports himself under false identity.
In the end, we'll find our that SuperVan is actually Mech27, pretending to be someone else, that way stabbing Invyr in the back and getting all the money and pussies for himself.
It's not holding grudges, but making clear how this came to be. Sometimes the ends justifies the means but not everyone likes to support those means. Let's take SPRiT: so many buy from even though they know they scammed people years back and there are other that will never buy from them.
If you wanna know how this came to be, you can find out the answer by yourself instead of questioning me. It's your right to skip the GB if you don't trust me. Stop defaming me if you don't have any prove. It's stupid and rude.
Does your example have any relation to me? Is it also a valid criticism?For the community to grow, you have to compare me with SPRiT. Even if I have never scrammed anyone. What a reason!For the community to grow there needs to be trust.Why are you guys holding so much grudge against SuperVan? He is here with the promise of bringing back Holy Pandas, and based on the review we had so far, I'd say he delivered his game. I'm here for the switches. I couldn't care less about all the other drama alias pretending bull****. It's very simple. If the switch lives up to its expectation, join the GB. If it doesn't, leave in silence. I want to see this community grows, so please give the guy some room to breathe.Supervan Gsus $1.5 = "Paying a bounty hunter to find the dirty old molds Mech27 and Invyr hid in the desert, then got betrayed by the bounty hunter when the molds were held for ransom, hence the $1.5"
Don't forget part of the story where he supports himself under false identity.
In the end, we'll find our that SuperVan is actually Mech27, pretending to be someone else, that way stabbing Invyr in the back and getting all the money and pussies for himself.
It's not holding grudges, but making clear how this came to be. Sometimes the ends justifies the means but not everyone likes to support those means. Let's take SPRiT: so many buy from even though they know they scammed people years back and there are other that will never buy from them.
If you wanna know how this came to be, you can find out the answer by yourself instead of questioning me. It's your right to skip the GB if you don't trust me. Stop defaming me if you don't have any prove. It's stupid and rude.
Not comparing you to SPRiT, just used them as an example of hazy backgrounds in the community.
Not everything is an attack. Some of this valid criticism.
Please provide accurate information instead of surmising. It's irresponsible.$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!It seems that you think new pandas can't hit 20k.
No, it seems your margins are significantly higher than any other "new" switch, or you need to have a good long talk with your manufacturer. If these are costing YOU as the GB runner anything more than 30¢/switch I'll be astonished.
...sellers are allowed to have margins, and it's their right to set a price they feel is best based on supply and demand...
Please provide accurate information instead of surmising. It's irresponsible.$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!It seems that you think new pandas can't hit 20k.
No, it seems your margins are significantly higher than any other "new" switch, or you need to have a good long talk with your manufacturer. If these are costing YOU as the GB runner anything more than 30¢/switch I'll be astonished.
...sellers are allowed to have margins, and it's their right to set a price they feel is best based on supply and demand...
Sure, but buyers also have a right to know that this particular product almost certainly has margin of over 1$. To put that in perspective, that's more than the entire cost of most "boutique" switches in margin alone.
U so good at surmising. It means when the gb hit 50k, I will get extra margin from factory. Could you please introduce a factory like you thought to me?...sellers are allowed to have margins, and it's their right to set a price they feel is best based on supply and demand...
Sure, but buyers also have a right to know that this particular product almost certainly has margin of over 1$.
Why don't you run a switch gb instead of complaining volubly?Please provide accurate information instead of surmising. It's irresponsible.$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!It seems that you think new pandas can't hit 20k.
No, it seems your margins are significantly higher than any other "new" switch, or you need to have a good long talk with your manufacturer. If these are costing YOU as the GB runner anything more than 30¢/switch I'll be astonished.
You're the GB runner, by all means, correct me!
Edit: For what it's worth, 30¢/switch was a pretty conservative guess and I'd be willing to wager it's less
$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!
Why don't you run a switch gb instead of complaining volubly?Please provide accurate information instead of surmising. It's irresponsible.$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!It seems that you think new pandas can't hit 20k.
No, it seems your margins are significantly higher than any other "new" switch, or you need to have a good long talk with your manufacturer. If these are costing YOU as the GB runner anything more than 30¢/switch I'll be astonished.
You're the GB runner, by all means, correct me!
Edit: For what it's worth, 30¢/switch was a pretty conservative guess and I'd be willing to wager it's less
Because I'm not a shady opportunist.
People. This is our ever chance of getting Holy Pandas. Keep pissing off the man and there will be no Pandas for any of us. :-\
People. This is our ever chance of getting Holy Pandas. Keep pissing off the man and there will be no Pandas for any of us. :-\
That'd save a lot of people a lot of money. For reference, original Panda was manufactured under 20 cents/switch.
Moderation note: please refrain from personal insults and continue the discussion in a more calm and rational manner. Thread cleaned up.
Actually I was a sub-branch president of a bank in China before. I came to Russia and backed to university again because my wife majored Russian at college. You know nothing about me except I'm a student living in Russia. Stop pretending to know me.$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!
He's a student living in Russia trying to make some money. Price is maybe too high, but not gonna lie, I'd probably do the same.
Are people really going to complain about having to pay $1-1.5 a switch for Pandas when they were going for $6 a switch? wew.
Don't worry about it dude. Some people are cheapskate. Wait until Quakemz features these on Topclack and run your GB. People who express genuine interest will continue to support you.Actually I was a sub-branch president of a bank in China before. I came to Russia and backed to university again because my wife majored Russian at college. You know nothing about me except I'm a student living in Russia. Stop pretending to know me.$1.50/switch is completely bonkers. You're either running massive margins or the manufacturer took you without lube. Either way, nope. Enjoy your overpriced mediocrity!
He's a student living in Russia trying to make some money. Price is maybe too high, but not gonna lie, I'd probably do the same.
Are people really going to complain about having to pay $1-1.5 a switch for Pandas when they were going for $6 a switch? wew.
Yes. The high prices were due to low supply, and a GB eliminates that "issue" completely. What the original Panda sold for doesn't make this new switch any less of a price gouge. There's no reason this should cost most than a Zealio. It's a single, mediocre linear that requires another switch entirely to achieve the "hype" of Holy Pandas.
If this was a prebuilt "Holy panda" I'd be more inclined to support it, but it's not. It's a middle of the pack linear being sold for an unprecedented price. Caveat emptor
People. This is our ever chance of getting Holy Pandas. Keep pissing off the man and there will be no Pandas for any of us. :-\
That'd save a lot of people a lot of money. For reference, original Panda was manufactured under 20 cents/switch.
Even I get information about the cost price of Zealio from you. hahahaAre people really going to complain about having to pay $1-1.5 a switch for Pandas when they were going for $6 a switch? wew.
Yes. The high prices were due to low supply, and a GB eliminates that "issue" completely. What the original Panda sold for doesn't make this new switch any less of a price gouge. There's no reason this should cost most than a Zealio. It's a single, mediocre linear that requires another switch entirely to achieve the "hype" of Holy Pandas.
If this was a prebuilt "Holy panda" I'd be more inclined to support it, but it's not. It's a middle of the pack linear being sold for an unprecedented price. Caveat emptor
No hard feelings, the market is as the market is but I agree that $1.5 is an unfair price. I will not be participating. Good luck on your buy.Of course, it's your right.
I've been a quiet lurker until I saw this....it made me literally lol. To think that consumer has any right to know the margin of a product for sale in an open market like this is wild. I can imagine how well a conversation would go if a customer of the company I work for walked in and said they have a right to know the margin on our products... Like so many have said, you're better off speaking with your wallet....sellers are allowed to have margins, and it's their right to set a price they feel is best based on supply and demand...
Sure, but buyers also have a right to know that this particular product almost certainly has margin of over 1$. To put that in perspective, that's more than the entire cost of most "boutique" switches in margin alone.
Actually I was a sub-branch president of a bank in China before. I came to Russia and backed to university again because my wife majored Russian at college. You know nothing about me except I'm a student living in Russia. Stop pretending to know me.
China GB was $0.60, international is $1.50 :p
China GB was $0.60, international is $1.50 :p
I was avoiding bringing this up because I wanted to get a concrete source, but yeah. If there was any doubt about this being completely driven by hype and profit, this should dispel it.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=582182099579
Here is the Taobao page. Anyone without a QQ code got their order cancelled.
4 CNY is currently 0.58 USD.
Thanks Xondat. :thumb:
This thread needs to cool it on on kool-aid.
China GB was $0.60, international is $1.50 :pIt's a private GB which limited the quantity of new pandas to 10k for advertising only in China. It's my right to run it in my friend's QQ group.
No hard feelings, the market is as the market is but I agree that $1.5 is an unfair price. I will not be participating. Good luck on your buy.
I'd be fully behind this at China prices! Very reasonable at 60¢/switch
Ok, i think it's totally insane the price that SuperVan is asking people to pay for the pandas, he's done ZERO R&D, just copying an existing product that got discontinued.
But obviously people are gonna pay it. cause it's less than it was when it was discontinued. This guy is gonna make "bank" on it, and it's still gonna be a hella boutique product.
The only reason this bothers me tho is that Everything Keyboard™ already has such a ridiculous pricing. And this guy is doing a GB on a "new" product, which is intended to keep prices affordable for the masses, and just ****in gouging everyone on it for funsies and cause it's "reasonable". Good for him, and the people who can afford it. Bad for the community.
(says the guy who disappears for 5 months a few weeks after he comes back to the community)
No hard feelings, the market is as the market is but I agree that $1.5 is an unfair price. I will not be participating. Good luck on your buy.
It’s your right not to buy buddy :)
I will be in for 680 pcs.
I'm happy to see new pandas being made as they make excellent tactile housings but I think I'll pass on this lot. I find the Western vs Chinese pricing of these new switches particularly concerning in the context that both 27 and Invyr said the manufacturer told them that production of more switches would not be possible.
No hard feelings, the market is as the market is but I agree that $1.5 is an unfair price. I will not be participating. Good luck on your buy.
It’s your right not to buy buddy :)
I will be in for 680 pcs.
You mean you already are in for 680 pcs at 60 cents right :thumb:
You should also complain to the keyboard and keycap designers why they charge such a huge premium.
Wait, this is an expensive hobby after all!
Ok, i think it's totally insane the price that SuperVan is asking people to pay for the pandas, he's done ZERO R&D, just copying an existing product that got discontinued.
But obviously people are gonna pay it. cause it's less than it was when it was discontinued. This guy is gonna make "bank" on it, and it's still gonna be a hella boutique product.
The only reason this bothers me tho is that Everything Keyboard™ already has such a ridiculous pricing. And this guy is doing a GB on a "new" product, which is intended to keep prices affordable for the masses, and just ****in gouging everyone on it for funsies and cause it's "reasonable". Good for him, and the people who can afford it. Bad for the community.
(says the guy who disappears for 5 months a few weeks after he comes back to the community)
You should also complain to the keyboard and keycap designers why they charge such a huge premium.
Wait, this is an expensive hobby after all!
It's an expensive hobby after all is no excuse. And there is a difference between the price of a a Keyset that people consider expensive (I know what I'm talking about, people were complaining about Monochrome) but not having a choice and people making a huge profit off of something they know will sell because of the name. If anything, the Chinese GB, promotional or not, proves that the margin on the upcoming GB is going to be.
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Yours might be, mine was not, I don't care saying it publically, I sold Monochrome and each set sold I made a wooping 60-ish cents... I didn't care as I made it for the product, but don't come and tell me that margins are higher and use that as an excuse, that's just BS.
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Yours might be, mine was not. I don't care saying it publically: for each Monochrome set I sold I made a wooping 60-ish cents... I didn't care as I made it for the product, but don't come and tell me that margins are higher and use that as an excuse, that's just BS.
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Yours might be, mine was not. I don't care saying it publically: for each Monochrome set I sold I made a wooping 60-ish cents... I didn't care as I made it for the product, but don't come and tell me that margins are higher and use that as an excuse, that's just BS.
SuperVan is only making 60 cents per switch so it's basically the same as your situation. c:
Ok, i think it's totally insane the price that SuperVan is asking people to pay for the pandas, he's done ZERO R&D, just copying an existing product that got discontinued.
But obviously people are gonna pay it. cause it's less than it was when it was discontinued. This guy is gonna make "bank" on it, and it's still gonna be a hella boutique product.
The only reason this bothers me tho is that Everything Keyboard™ already has such a ridiculous pricing. And this guy is doing a GB on a "new" product, which is intended to keep prices affordable for the masses, and just ****in gouging everyone on it for funsies and cause it's "reasonable". Good for him, and the people who can afford it. Bad for the community.
(says the guy who disappears for 5 months a few weeks after he comes back to the community)
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Yours might be, mine was not, I don't care saying it publically, I sold Monochrome and each set sold I made a wooping 60-ish cents... I didn't care as I made it for the product, but don't come and tell me that margins are higher and use that as an excuse, that's just BS.
Each set for a profit of 60 cents, and you are not making a profit, you are helping the community.
There are GBs that do not make a profit (e.g., DC60), but most do charge so much higher than cost.
My point is simple, it is up to SuperVan to price his GB, and if you feel it's too expensive, you don't need to buy it. And it's not an excuse, it's a fact that many GBs are selling much higher than their cost. Not a good thing for sure, I'd like to buy some high-end keyboards at low price too.
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Yours might be, mine was not. I don't care saying it publically: for each Monochrome set I sold I made a wooping 60-ish cents... I didn't care as I made it for the product, but don't come and tell me that margins are higher and use that as an excuse, that's just BS.
SuperVan is only making 60 cents per switch so it's basically the same as your situation. c:
Dayum, you got me there :3
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Yours might be, mine was not, I don't care saying it publically, I sold Monochrome and each set sold I made a wooping 60-ish cents... I didn't care as I made it for the product, but don't come and tell me that margins are higher and use that as an excuse, that's just BS.
Each set for a profit of 60 cents, and you are not making a profit, you are helping the community.
There are GBs that do not make a profit (e.g., DC60), but most do charge so much higher than cost.
My point is simple, it is up to SuperVan to price his GB, and if you feel it's too expensive, you don't need to buy it. And it's not an excuse, it's a fact that many GBs are selling much higher than their cost. Not a good thing for sure, I'd like to buy some high-end keyboards at low price too.
I mean no offesne with this assumption, but it seems by your profile you're willing to spend a lot of money in this hobby. That's great/awesome!
However I think the reason a lot of people have expressed disappointment about the price is that many don't have the same amount of free cash to spend on their hobbies, and they still wish they could get their hands on some Holy Pandas.
Does that put the disappointment into context? They're not just mad he's getting a high margin, they're disappointed they're not going to get affordable pandas when the original IC implied that was now going to be a possibility.
I'm well aware that there is substantial mark-up in this hobby. But a 2.5 times price increase for the Western market is straight up insulting. From your other comments I have to ask, do you think it should be the norm for Westerners to subsidise the cost of Chinese buyers?I'm happy to see new pandas being made as they make excellent tactile housings but I think I'll pass on this lot. I find the Western vs Chinese pricing of these new switches particularly concerning in the context that both 27 and Invyr said the manufacturer told them that production of more switches would not be possible.
If you know what private GB usually costs in China for a majority of the keyboard GBs on Geekhack, you probably want to learn some Chinese to infiltrate into the inner circle of the Chinese keyboard private groups :)
Just to be fair, if we hit $1 per piece, that's about 70 dollars plus shipping for a 65% boards. It's not that bad. Oh well.
The cost of a rumor is too low, so stupid petty traders defame me again and again because they are afraid of new pandas' coming. As same as the way they defamed me, I can say these traders are too poor. They need the money from pandas' trading to improve their life a little.
Maybe I will think about providing donation for them after the GB finished.
Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.
I knew SuperVan since early 2017. As a friend, I know he's a keyboard enthusiast and he usually wants to try some new idea to play/make keyboard stuff. Several weeks ago we chatted about the switches. He asked me whether I'm interested in Holy Panda switches. You know, I'm kind of old school(or out of fashion to be honest) on installing switches in my keyboards. Till now I only use Cherry Blue and Clear for my keyboards. I ranted to him about the expensiveness of the Panda switch aftermarket prices. As for Holy Panda switch, IMO it's bloodily wasteful to buy two expensive switches, take out one piece of each to make one switch only and then give rid of the left like rubbish. SuperVan said he planned to give a try to change this, by producing Panda housings and some tactile stems like Halo stems, assembled right in the production line, so that regular users don't have to do this expensive, wasteful mod. The first step of his try would be to produce Panda housings and he already contacted the factory to get some samples.SuperVan, I don't know what happened, the solution, the ideal situation was proposed by yourself to hhkbp2 in your discussions. As far as I can tell you do not plan on producing new tactile stems in the future. This is based on the fact that you have not once mentioned in this IC the desire to do so. Let me know if I'm wrong. I don't know why chose to go against your initial idea. I have a gut feeling, but I'll leave the speculation off the table and let everyone else come to their own conclusions as to why you'd go against this initial plan. This right here, this proposed idea to hhkbp2, this would have been good for the community. This would have been a new offering, innovation, a holy panda or a very close clone at a fraction of the price. However as things stand, this IC, this GB, is nothing more than an asset flip, one that I believe sets a poor precedent, and contrary to what many supporters seem to think, is not good for this community.
I'm well aware that there is substantial mark-up in this hobby. But a 2.5 times price increase for the Western market is straight up insulting. From your other comments I have to ask, do you think it should be the norm for Westerners to subsidise the cost of Chinese buyers?I'm happy to see new pandas being made as they make excellent tactile housings but I think I'll pass on this lot. I find the Western vs Chinese pricing of these new switches particularly concerning in the context that both 27 and Invyr said the manufacturer told them that production of more switches would not be possible.
If you know what private GB usually costs in China for a majority of the keyboard GBs on Geekhack, you probably want to learn some Chinese to infiltrate into the inner circle of the Chinese keyboard private groups :)
A metric boatload of text
A metric boatload of text
Jesus, can we get a TLDR?
Just to be fair, if we hit $1 per piece, that's about 70 dollars plus shipping for a 65% boards. It's not that bad. Oh well.
To be totally fair, to get holy panda, which is why everyone would want this switch imo, you'd have to get other switches and mod these. That's not $1/piece, even with your best case scenario.
That's not to say I won't buy any, I've been lurking for some HP and these would be way less expensive, but the OG IC really led me/us to believe to would be affordable to the masses.
Again, I'm well aware of this. Please stop assuming that because I'm a Westerner I don't know better.I'm well aware that there is substantial mark-up in this hobby. But a 2.5 times price increase for the Western market is straight up insulting. From your other comments I have to ask, do you think it should be the norm for Westerners to subsidise the cost of Chinese buyers?I'm happy to see new pandas being made as they make excellent tactile housings but I think I'll pass on this lot. I find the Western vs Chinese pricing of these new switches particularly concerning in the context that both 27 and Invyr said the manufacturer told them that production of more switches would not be possible.
If you know what private GB usually costs in China for a majority of the keyboard GBs on Geekhack, you probably want to learn some Chinese to infiltrate into the inner circle of the Chinese keyboard private groups :)
It already is a fact, not a future norm, unfortunately. Private GBs are not meant to make money, many times GB runners or designers even lose money because profit is not the goal. It has been going on for a long long time. If you are not aware of it, you just didn't know it (now you do).
As I said, feel free to call out all the other GB runners who have ever run a private GB with a large price difference between private GB and GH GB.
I'm well aware that there is substantial mark-up in this hobby. But a 2.5 times price increase for the Western market is straight up insulting. From your other comments I have to ask, do you think it should be the norm for Westerners to subsidise the cost of Chinese buyers?I'm happy to see new pandas being made as they make excellent tactile housings but I think I'll pass on this lot. I find the Western vs Chinese pricing of these new switches particularly concerning in the context that both 27 and Invyr said the manufacturer told them that production of more switches would not be possible.
If you know what private GB usually costs in China for a majority of the keyboard GBs on Geekhack, you probably want to learn some Chinese to infiltrate into the inner circle of the Chinese keyboard private groups :)
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Supervan is in the inner circle of the keyboard manufacturing community. If you guys keep pushing him he might eventually release the cost of each keyboard GB haha.
Again, I'm well aware of this. Please stop assuming that because I'm a Westerner I don't know better.I'm well aware that there is substantial mark-up in this hobby. But a 2.5 times price increase for the Western market is straight up insulting. From your other comments I have to ask, do you think it should be the norm for Westerners to subsidise the cost of Chinese buyers?I'm happy to see new pandas being made as they make excellent tactile housings but I think I'll pass on this lot. I find the Western vs Chinese pricing of these new switches particularly concerning in the context that both 27 and Invyr said the manufacturer told them that production of more switches would not be possible.
If you know what private GB usually costs in China for a majority of the keyboard GBs on Geekhack, you probably want to learn some Chinese to infiltrate into the inner circle of the Chinese keyboard private groups :)
It already is a fact, not a future norm, unfortunately. Private GBs are not meant to make money, many times GB runners or designers even lose money because profit is not the goal. It has been going on for a long long time. If you are not aware of it, you just didn't know it (now you do).
As I said, feel free to call out all the other GB runners who have ever run a private GB with a large price difference between private GB and GH GB.
And I have complained about other GB pricing before too, but this thread isn't about those buys, it's about new BSUN ``pandas''.
The keyboard/keyset margins are much higher, believe me.
Supervan is in the inner circle of the keyboard manufacturing community. If you guys keep pushing him he might eventually release the cost of each keyboard GB haha.
When's this turned into my dad can beat up your dad? "Supervan is in the inner circle of keyboard manufacturing, he can expose everyone!", how is this even a remotely sensible or sensical thing to say? Doesn't matter if you say haha after, that's just lack of tact.
Here's my honest opinion and advice - make the new Pandas $2.5 each instead of $1.5, the price is so utterly out of whack and the people defending the prices because "you're saving money because the current price is $6 per switch" (which is a ridiculous thing to say but there's no point explaining why as per the last couple pages) are so out of touch with reality that I'd actually rather SuperVan robs them blind than not take the opportunity to turn a like 40 to 65 grand profit. If you're not willing to do 50-75 cent and try to make more money by increasing the amount of units sold then just go for 2.5 instead of 1.5, in all likelihood the people desperate, insane or rich enough to find the latter warranted will still feel the former is a bargain. Going for 1.5 was a smart move, I just don't think it's ambitious enough all things considered.
Please continue to compare selling half a switch for $1.5 a pop to buying Nvidia cards and/or other mainstream products, I'm sure it'll change the minds of everyone saying/thinking you're crazy (this is not aimed at you directly, it's a blanket statement). That said, people are entitled to spending their money however they like, I suppose spending $250 on 200 housings instead of going on KBDfans and buying an HHKB + silencing rings may feel like the sensible thing to do.
Hi, guys. Please stop arguing.
1. About the price. I've thought the price out before October. I've prepared a lot of new pandas for guys who will join the GB making sure they will receive their new pandas soon after the GB ended. The MOQ of new pandas will be 10k. The price per switch will be 1.5dollar - 10k, 1.2dollar - 20k, 1dollar - 50k. Considering what I have paid for them, I think it will be a reasonable price. It's your right that you can choose to buy new pandas or not. I fully respect your thoughts. But pricing was based on how much I've paid for new pandas. It sucks that some guys try to attack me for another new reason, I haven't even given my price yet before the reply! How can you criticize the price before I announced？By your own imaging? Stop being immature, you guys are all adults.
2. About the GB. I will run the GB after quakemz and manofinterests tested new panda samples. I really respect them and thanks for their contributions. I will satisfy some guys' requirements renaming the 'New Panda' to 'Gsus (not Jesus)'.
Thanks for all the supports. Let's look forward to the GB.
"No appreciation of SuperVan's proposed GB price."
As opposed to further aggravate SuperVan, the best way moving forward is to get enough people in the GB, so that the $1 mark can be hit.
Enough said.
I am also curious where the original Panda GB runners are? Are the molds really destroyed or not? We need to get to the bottom of this.
If original Panda runners can release an R2 at a lower pricing to counter SuperVan's pricing, maybe it will be good for the community.
Are you some paid shill for this 'SuperVan' guy or something? Camping his thread and defending everything negative people say.
The best way moving forward is to not buy into a hype/meme at all, not to just 'buy buy buy' to get some artificially ridiculously high price down to a still ridiculous price.
SuperVan or whoever he is (lol) is smart for jumping on this opportunity to make a bunch off money because the hype is certainly there and people WILL pay too much for this crap. Fine. But why you are camping this thread like you're being paid to do so is a mystery to me.
People gang up towards SuperVan. It's not good. He has suffered enough verbal abuse. Shame on those people.
Somebody needs to stand up and bring some sanity to the discussion.
Let the man do his thing.
Ya'll MFs need Gsus.
For one thing, I ran a private GB in China for advertising panda switch. Actually pandas was not popular in China. You guys don't even know the limitation of private GB.
For another, it was a non-profit gb. Thanks for these guys' support and trust. It ended before NK's stream. It means they need a lot of courage to support me before the confirmation. Considering the cost of molds and occupation of fund of spot goods, I can say it was a non-profit gb. If you guys can provide panda switches at a low price even as same a guy said at 0.2 dollar. I would like to thank him for his contribution. You can question the price, but not surmise by yourself.
What is more. Of course you guys have right to join of skip the GB. As the runner of GB, I also have right to price. I won't change the price. Don't compare the price with the price of China's private GB. It just hitted MOQ.
If you guys think 1.5 dollar is too expensive. The most correct way is helping me to advertise instead of attacking me. Then the price will be drop to 1 dollar. Attacking me won't change anything, the GB will run also.
At the last, I will show you guys a new pic. These boxes are filled up with new pandas. It means I will ship them soon after the GB ended.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0GGKQvU.jpg)
There is obviously a disconnect in how people are viewing the pricing of these new pandas. A lot of people are looking at them from an aftermarket perspective, while others are viewing them from the POV of the original run. But let's face it, pandas were not middle of the pack linears, they are pretty ****ty linears. Everyone is suddenly looking at them through rose tinted hype lenses because of one mod. Zeal v2's are more tactile and sell at 75c per switch yet people are defending a switch that is less tactile and is a frankenswitch that goes for 1.50usd just for the housings, give me a break. Comparing them to market price is insane as well, by that logic TGR GB's should be running in the 700-900 dollar range, which they obviously don't.
What R&D did supervan do to bring these back? I suspect none. Nathan showed on his stream how bad the stock springs were and I have been talking to him on discord, I suspect that they are just stock BSUN springs due to how low quality they are. The plastic used for the new pandas is not exactly the same as the old pandas. It could be a similar formula used from a different supplier that has a similar color to the old pandas, but Im not 100% sold that they are the exact same plastic formula from the same supplier. The stems are remarkably rough, which makes sense since the panda stems were as well, but when you consider everything, pandas are basically modified BSUN's, and so are these switches, although to a lesser extent. They dont use a top housing with a custom logo and they most likely use stock BSUN springs. The material of the housing is probably different as well between the R2 and R1 pandas, R2 could very well have used a cheaper plastic mix for the housings than R1. So the cost of making these new pandas is probably less than the r1 pandas, which were at around 30c a switch from what I have heard.
Which brings me to this:For one thing, I ran a private GB in China for advertising panda switch. Actually pandas was not popular in China. You guys don't even know the limitation of private GB.
For another, it was a non-profit gb. Thanks for these guys' support and trust. It ended before NK's stream. It means they need a lot of courage to support me before the confirmation. Considering the cost of molds and occupation of fund of spot goods, I can say it was a non-profit gb. If you guys can provide panda switches at a low price even as same a guy said at 0.2 dollar. I would like to thank him for his contribution. You can question the price, but not surmise by yourself.
What is more. Of course you guys have right to join of skip the GB. As the runner of GB, I also have right to price. I won't change the price. Don't compare the price with the price of China's private GB. It just hitted MOQ.
If you guys think 1.5 dollar is too expensive. The most correct way is helping me to advertise instead of attacking me. Then the price will be drop to 1 dollar. Attacking me won't change anything, the GB will run also.
At the last, I will show you guys a new pic. These boxes are filled up with new pandas. It means I will ship them soon after the GB ended.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0GGKQvU.jpg)
The chinese run was a promotional run? How come I couldn't get in with a proxy then? Oh right, I'm not a part of your QQ group. In fact, noone outside of your qq group could get in. I thought advertisement was about displaying a product to the public, not only for a select few; funny how that works. Plus 60c per switch, considering my above statements on your R&D, is already a nice profit margin. If anything, the chinese run was a private group buy for your friends so that they wouldn't have to pay flipper prices for mediocre linears.
You have also sent out samples to three of the biggest personalities in the western community, a community that knows fully well what pandas are, and you claim that there is not enough advertising? Are you serious? Your little rant about jesus and poor people is a meme now, congrats bud. This buy is the talk of the town, there is noone who doesn't know it, besides maybe people on r/mk and even then people there probably know about this.
Which brings me to your MOQ's. You bring it up so much that the MOQ for these switches are so restrictive, yet you paid for the western GB's amount of switches upfront? What? That is unheard of and quite bizarre. Next, I'm going to be real with you, your MOQ's are made up. 25c price drops between the first 10k, but also for between 20k and 50k switches? How many switches did you buy upfront and at what price? In order for those MOQ prices to not have huge profit margins, the switches would have to cost around 1.35c each to make (have to consider logistical costs) at MOQ 10k. 1.05c at MOQ 20k, you get the idea. There is no way that these switches are costing you even 30c each to make, heck maybe not even 25c each to make. As I explained above, your R&D costs (if there were any, which is unlikely), would be way lower than R1 pandas, which costed around 30c each to make at lowest MOQ. The MOQ pricing structure for cherry, gateron, kailh, etc are nowhere near what you are suggesting for BSUN. Not even in the same solar system.
If you have already bought the switches, then that means the only MOQ that is listed is the one that you have arbitrarily chosen. This isn't a standard GB, we don't collectively submit an order to BSUN for the switches, we are buying from you as you are a supplier, and that means that your MOQ's can be different than the manufacturer's MOQ's; further proving my point.
You have quite literally become the panda day trader. You buy switches upfront instead of after the orders from the GB come in so that you can control the pricing via arbitrary MOQ's and so that you control the supply of new panda switches. You sell them at ridiculous prices with disgusting profit margins because some people in this community think that aftermarket price = GB pricing and can be suckered into your pricing hierarchy. Jesus have mercy on your soul, the panda all father has sinned!
tl;dr
- MOQ's are unrealistic when compared to other maufacturer's. MOQ's are also arbitrary since Van is acting as a supplier, there is no collective order to the maufacturer like in standard GB's.
- There was little to no R&D done by van. Springs are stock BSUN springs, plastic mix is different, logo is different and most likely uses a modified BSUN mold. This also means that his cost to produce was lower. For reference, the OG pandas costed around 30c each to make, including R&D costs.
- The chinese promotional run was treated as more of a private GB. It's stated intention of being for promotion is a straight up lie.
- To everyone defending the price points: Does that mean that GB pricing should now be based on aftermarket values of their designs? Should popular artisan makers start selling their designs for hundreds of dollars because thats what they go for aftermarket? Should popular board makers like TGR start selling boards for 700-900 usd because that is the aftermarket price of their boards? GB pricing should not be determined by after market pricing, it is a slippery slope leading to gauged out GB prices.
There is obviously a disconnect in how people are viewing the pricing of these new pandas. A lot of people are looking at them from an aftermarket perspective, while others are viewing them from the POV of the original run. But let's face it, pandas were not middle of the pack linears, they are pretty ****ty linears. Everyone is suddenly looking at them through rose tinted hype lenses because of one mod. Zeal v2's are more tactile and sell at 75c per switch yet people are defending a switch that is less tactile and is a frankenswitch that goes for 1.50usd just for the housings, give me a break. Comparing them to market price is insane as well, by that logic TGR GB's should be running in the 700-900 dollar range, which they obviously don't.Any proof？It's much better for you to put your proof here. I won't even watch it without any proof.
What R&D did supervan do to bring these back? I suspect none. Nathan showed on his stream how bad the stock springs were and I have been talking to him on discord, I suspect that they are just stock BSUN springs due to how low quality they are. The plastic used for the new pandas is not exactly the same as the old pandas. It could be a similar formula used from a different supplier that has a similar color to the old pandas, but Im not 100% sold that they are the exact same plastic formula from the same supplier. The stems are remarkably rough, which makes sense since the panda stems were as well, but when you consider everything, pandas are basically modified BSUN's, and so are these switches, although to a lesser extent. They dont use a top housing with a custom logo and they most likely use stock BSUN springs. The material of the housing is probably different as well between the R2 and R1 pandas, R2 could very well have used a cheaper plastic mix for the housings than R1. So the cost of making these new pandas is probably less than the r1 pandas, which were at around 30c a switch from what I have heard.
Which brings me to this:For one thing, I ran a private GB in China for advertising panda switch. Actually pandas was not popular in China. You guys don't even know the limitation of private GB.
For another, it was a non-profit gb. Thanks for these guys' support and trust. It ended before NK's stream. It means they need a lot of courage to support me before the confirmation. Considering the cost of molds and occupation of fund of spot goods, I can say it was a non-profit gb. If you guys can provide panda switches at a low price even as same a guy said at 0.2 dollar. I would like to thank him for his contribution. You can question the price, but not surmise by yourself.
What is more. Of course you guys have right to join of skip the GB. As the runner of GB, I also have right to price. I won't change the price. Don't compare the price with the price of China's private GB. It just hitted MOQ.
If you guys think 1.5 dollar is too expensive. The most correct way is helping me to advertise instead of attacking me. Then the price will be drop to 1 dollar. Attacking me won't change anything, the GB will run also.
At the last, I will show you guys a new pic. These boxes are filled up with new pandas. It means I will ship them soon after the GB ended.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0GGKQvU.jpg)
The chinese run was a promotional run? How come I couldn't get in with a proxy then? Oh right, I'm not a part of your QQ group. In fact, noone outside of your qq group could get in. I thought advertisement was about displaying a product to the public, not only for a select few; funny how that works. Plus 60c per switch, considering my above statements on your R&D, is already a nice profit margin. If anything, the chinese run was a private group buy for your friends so that they wouldn't have to pay flipper prices for mediocre linears.
You have also sent out samples to three of the biggest personalities in the western community, a community that knows fully well what pandas are, and you claim that there is not enough advertising? Are you serious? Your little rant about jesus and poor people is a meme now, congrats bud. This buy is the talk of the town, there is noone who doesn't know it, besides maybe people on r/mk and even then people there probably know about this.
Which brings me to your MOQ's. You bring it up so much that the MOQ for these switches are so restrictive, yet you paid for the western GB's amount of switches upfront? What? That is unheard of and quite bizarre. Next, I'm going to be real with you, your MOQ's are made up. 25c price drops between the first 10k, but also for between 20k and 50k switches? How many switches did you buy upfront and at what price? In order for those MOQ prices to not have huge profit margins, the switches would have to cost around 1.35c each to make (have to consider logistical costs) at MOQ 10k. 1.05c at MOQ 20k, you get the idea. There is no way that these switches are costing you even 30c each to make, heck maybe not even 25c each to make. As I explained above, your R&D costs (if there were any, which is unlikely), would be way lower than R1 pandas, which costed around 30c each to make at lowest MOQ. The MOQ pricing structure for cherry, gateron, kailh, etc are nowhere near what you are suggesting for BSUN. Not even in the same solar system. How is it that the cost of these switches can drop 25c per for manufacturing when arrow sells retooled cherry switches for 35-27c each depending on MOQ?
If you have already bought the switches, then that means the only MOQ that is listed is the one that you have arbitrarily chosen. This isn't a standard GB, we don't collectively submit an order to BSUN for the switches, we are buying from you as you are a supplier, and that means that your MOQ's can be different than the manufacturer's MOQ's; further proving my point.
You have quite literally become the panda day trader. You buy switches upfront instead of after the orders from the GB come in so that you can control the pricing via arbitrary MOQ's and so that you control the supply of new panda switches. You sell them at ridiculous prices with disgusting profit margins because some people in this community think that aftermarket price = GB pricing and can be suckered into your pricing hierarchy. Jesus have mercy on your soul, the panda all father has sinned!
tl;dr
- MOQ's are unrealistic when compared to other maufacturer's. MOQ's are also arbitrary since Van is acting as a supplier, there is no collective order to the maufacturer like in standard GB's.
- There was little to no R&D done by van. Springs are stock BSUN springs, plastic mix is different, logo is different and most likely uses a modified BSUN mold. This also means that his cost to produce was lower. For reference, the OG pandas costed around 30c each to make, including R&D costs.
- The chinese promotional run was treated as more of a private GB. It's stated intention of being for promotion is a straight up lie.
- To everyone defending the price points: Does that mean that GB pricing should now be based on aftermarket values of their designs? Should popular artisan makers start selling their designs for hundreds of dollars because thats what they go for aftermarket? Should popular board makers like TGR start selling boards for 700-900 usd because that is the aftermarket price of their boards? GB pricing should not be determined by after market pricing, it is a slippery slope leading to gauged out GB prices.
I don’t understand all these coulda-shoulda-woulda comments about prices and costs.
If it was all so easy for supervan to do what he’s apparently done and materially recreate or imitate the OG panda housing - why didn’t all you coulda-shoulda-woulda’s do it?
Shame on you all complainers for not caring about the community enough to beat him to it and charge magical cost.
I am loving the irony of a citizen from a China out-capitalisming a bunch of whiny westerners!
Any proof？It's much better for you to put your proof here. I won't even watch it without any proof.Look at any supplier site for MX style switches via part number, their MOQ's are quite different from yours. Some suppliers list 8k+ needed at a flat price because they have non stocked, this falls in line with the MOQ that pandas needed at 8250. Keep in mind that this isnt directly from the manufacturer, it is indirectly thru a supplier. Many manus will not do further price drops for parts or products that are custom, like these switches. It is quite common to have one MOQ to have the product even made, then no other MOQ following that because it is not a regular product that the manu produces, it is custom.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
Cheers up, SuperVan. It's your GB, your price. $1.5 is still 50% lesser than the previous panda after market.Time to start paying 1k at GB for jane V2 CE I guess then. Normal Jane v2 spots already going for 1k plus.
Just showing your proof instead of replying premeditated. If you can't provide any substantive proof, I won't reply any more.QuoteAny proof？It's much better for you to put your proof here. I won't even watch it without any proof.Look at any supplier site for MX style switches via part number, their MOQ's are quite different from yours. Some suppliers list 8k+ needed at a flat price because they have non stocked, this falls in line with the MOQ that pandas needed at 8250. Keep in mind that this isnt directly from the manufacturer, it is indirectly thru a supplier. Many manus will not do further price drops for parts or products that are custom, like these switches. It is quite common to have one MOQ to have the product even made, then no other MOQ following that because it is not a regular product that the manu produces, it is custom.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
Although these switches are custom because BSUN doesn't normally offer them, that does not mean that you put effort into R&D. You don't have to make new molds for injection molded parts, you can modify pre-existing molds. In the case of these switches, you could've easily made the leaves protrude more to increase tactility, the housing molds are normal BSUN molds, it is just the leaf and material that changed. This is backed up by the fact that the logo is still a BSUN logo and the fact that it uses a stock BSUN spring due to how low quality and pingy the spring is.
As for made up MOQ's, how do you already have the switches for the chinese GB when it just ended yesterday? The chinese GB sold roughly 3-4k switches. I'm gonna guesstimate that you ordered 10k. You are acting as a supplier. That makes you, not BSUN, the vendor of new pandas.
Any evidence to prove that I am wrong? Stop trying to play the victim here, you obviously aren't.
I am going to build my 11th Canoe.Weird flex, but okay
I am going to build my 11th Canoe.
Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?
Its like I'm talking to a wall, no reason for me to reply further as well I guess.Just showing your proof instead of replying premeditated. If you can't provide any substantive proof, I won't reply any more.QuoteAny proof？It's much better for you to put your proof here. I won't even watch it without any proof.Look at any supplier site for MX style switches via part number, their MOQ's are quite different from yours. Some suppliers list 8k+ needed at a flat price because they have non stocked, this falls in line with the MOQ that pandas needed at 8250. Keep in mind that this isnt directly from the manufacturer, it is indirectly thru a supplier. Many manus will not do further price drops for parts or products that are custom, like these switches. It is quite common to have one MOQ to have the product even made, then no other MOQ following that because it is not a regular product that the manu produces, it is custom.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
Although these switches are custom because BSUN doesn't normally offer them, that does not mean that you put effort into R&D. You don't have to make new molds for injection molded parts, you can modify pre-existing molds. In the case of these switches, you could've easily made the leaves protrude more to increase tactility, the housing molds are normal BSUN molds, it is just the leaf and material that changed. This is backed up by the fact that the logo is still a BSUN logo and the fact that it uses a stock BSUN spring due to how low quality and pingy the spring is.
As for made up MOQ's, how do you already have the switches for the chinese GB when it just ended yesterday? The chinese GB sold roughly 3-4k switches. I'm gonna guesstimate that you ordered 10k. You are acting as a supplier. That makes you, not BSUN, the vendor of new pandas.
Any evidence to prove that I am wrong? Stop trying to play the victim here, you obviously aren't.
通过我的 MIX 2 上的 Tapatalk发言
Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?
Nothing at all, other than a language barrier perhaps. Anyone want to partner up?
Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?To my knowledge 27, zisb, and Pete from 1upkeyboards tried this with the original manufacturer, but were either told it was not possible or the samples they received were no good or weren't the same as the original GB run. So it's kind of interesting that the runner of this GB (supervan/B. Sun) seems to be using the same tooling to make a new version of the switches.
I know. Its magical isn't it? All the original runners have tried and failed to replicate even their own products, yet a random guy from nowhere suddenly appears and claims to be able to make the exact same switch, and he wasn't even lying. I'm actually mind blown right now...Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?To my knowledge 27, zisb, and Pete from 1upkeyboards tried this with the original manufacturer, but were either told it was not possible or the samples they received were no good or weren't the same as the original GB run. So it's kind of interesting that the runner of this GB (supervan/B. Sun) seems to be using the same tooling to make a new version of the switches.
Supervan doesn't have to recreate panda housings, he can just mimic them. The reason why panda housings made switches super tactile was because their leaves are bent to protrude outward more (this is what the zeal v2 leaves did and walker also made a reddit post about this). So in essence, all supervan had to was replicate the leaves of the panda switches. The rest he used BSUN housings and springs, as well as a plastic mix that looked similar to the original panda housing color.Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?To my knowledge 27, zisb, and Pete from 1upkeyboards tried this with the original manufacturer, but were either told it was not possible or the samples they received were no good or weren't the same as the original GB run. So it's kind of interesting that the runner of this GB (supervan/B. Sun) seems to be using the same tooling to make a new version of the switches.
If its as simple as it sounds like you said, why haven't other members tried to do the same thing? Not meant to be a rhetorical question. I'm just legitimately curious.Supervan doesn't have to recreate panda housings, he can just mimic them. The reason why panda housings made switches super tactile was because their leaves are bent to protrude outward more (this is what the zeal v2 leaves did and walker also made a reddit post about this). So in essence, all supervan had to was replicate the leaves of the panda switches. The rest he used BSUN housings and springs, as well as a plastic mix that looked similar to the original panda housing color.Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?To my knowledge 27, zisb, and Pete from 1upkeyboards tried this with the original manufacturer, but were either told it was not possible or the samples they received were no good or weren't the same as the original GB run. So it's kind of interesting that the runner of this GB (supervan/B. Sun) seems to be using the same tooling to make a new version of the switches.
Supervan did not have to get the molds for the panda housings or recreate them, he only had to replicate the panda leaf and color.
This would also explain why he has little to no R&D costs. The housings don't matter for tactility, the leaf does. This furthers my point above that the housings are just stock BSUN housings with a custom leaf that is bent more to replicate the panda leaf.
Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?
Nothing at all, other than a language barrier perhaps. Anyone want to partner up?
Because it is a common misconception that people have that tactility comes from housings, therefore people try to replicate panda housings instead of the leaves, which can increase or decrease the tactility of a switch depending on how far they protrude.If its as simple as it sounds like you said, why haven't other members tried to do the same thing? Not meant to be a rhetorical question. I'm just legitimately curious.Supervan doesn't have to recreate panda housings, he can just mimic them. The reason why panda housings made switches super tactile was because their leaves are bent to protrude outward more (this is what the zeal v2 leaves did and walker also made a reddit post about this). So in essence, all supervan had to was replicate the leaves of the panda switches. The rest he used BSUN housings and springs, as well as a plastic mix that looked similar to the original panda housing color.Legitimate question. If there was truly zero innovation on these "new pandas" (which makes the premium price completely unjustified except from the skewed aftermarket perspective), then what stops another community member from using the exact same molds and just running a group buy for just the housings? Or even selling them with a tactile stem to minimize waste and maximize accessibility?To my knowledge 27, zisb, and Pete from 1upkeyboards tried this with the original manufacturer, but were either told it was not possible or the samples they received were no good or weren't the same as the original GB run. So it's kind of interesting that the runner of this GB (supervan/B. Sun) seems to be using the same tooling to make a new version of the switches.
Supervan did not have to get the molds for the panda housings or recreate them, he only had to replicate the panda leaf and color.
This would also explain why he has little to no R&D costs. The housings don't matter for tactility, the leaf does. This furthers my point above that the housings are just stock BSUN housings with a custom leaf that is bent more to replicate the panda leaf.
For those that are interested in buying these just for the sole reason to create holy panda. there are other vendors working on holy panda clones. full switches.
There is always a wei.
For those that are interested in buying these just for the sole reason to create holy panda. there are other vendors working on holy panda clones. full switches.
There is always a wei.
Which vendors? I am looking at new switches and the R2 holy pandas are my #1 right now.
Because it is a common misconception that people have that tactility comes from housings, therefore people try to replicate panda housings instead of the leaves, which can increase or decrease the tactility of a switch depending on how far they protrude.Ahh. Science. Thanks for the clarification. Was genuinely interested in joining and defending SuperVan the whole time as I disliked how people can gang up on one person, but now after I saw the pictures of those switches stocking up ready for GB, I realize this is nothing but a profit run which, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against. However that being said, it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'd take back my words about all his intention was to help the community to grow. Never have been more wrong in my life.
If you notice the stem of a clicky switch, the click jacket does not have as great of a tactile bump as tactile switches, yet their leaves protrude outward moreso than tactile switches. This is why stock mx blues are more tactile than stock mx browns, and why mods like Holy chickies work.
I guess people just haven't realized this, and thus this hasn't become common knowledge.
For those that are interested in buying these just for the sole reason to create holy panda. there are other vendors working on holy panda clones. full switches.
There is always a wei.
Which vendors? I am looking at new switches and the R2 holy pandas are my #1 right now.
massdrop for starters
at least to my knowledge
Quote from: Remsky link=topic=97651.msg2684986#msg2684986Because it is a common misconception that people have that tactility comes from housings, therefore people try to replicate panda housings instead of the leaves, which can increase or decrease the tactility of a switch depending on how far they protrude.Ahh. Science. Thanks for the clarification. Was genuinely interested in joining and defending SuperVan the whole time as I disliked how people can gang up on one person, but now after I saw the pictures of those switches stocking up ready for GB, I realize this is nothing but a profit run which, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against. However that being said, it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'd take back my words about all his intention was to help the community to grow. Never have been more wrong in my life.
If you notice the stem of a clicky switch, the click jacket does not have as great of a tactile bump as tactile switches, yet their leaves protrude outward moreso than tactile switches. This is why stock mx blues are more tactile than stock mx browns, and why mods like Holy chickies work.
I guess people just haven't realized this, and thus this hasn't become common knowledge.
Re alternatives:
- Zealios V2: I built a board yesterday using 62g. This switch feels very similar to Holy Panda. Only thing it lacks is really the half up slope of the bump (bump starts right away) and quarter of the down slope (Panda leaf is longer).
- Holy BSUN with rubberband mod: This one feels closes to Holy Panda experience, say 80% there. On top of Halo stem in BSUN switch housing and spring, insert a small piece of a wide rubberband behind one of the contact leaves. See https://imgur.com/gallery/csOFYRU (https://imgur.com/gallery/csOFYRU). Bump doesn't feel as long but overall feel is the same.
I'm going to get some of the new Pandas because I think it's an excellent switch to have for modding. Only uncertainty is in how many I'll be getting.
I have nothing to contribute, I'm drunk off the blood of Jesus. Praise Jesus.The panda all father we need, but dont deserve.
Yep, they are shipping. Stupid DHL couldn't find my address today... Sigh.Re alternatives:
- Zealios V2: I built a board yesterday using 62g. This switch feels very similar to Holy Panda. Only thing it lacks is really the half up slope of the bump (bump starts right away) and quarter of the down slope (Panda leaf is longer).
- Holy BSUN with rubberband mod: This one feels closes to Holy Panda experience, say 80% there. On top of Halo stem in BSUN switch housing and spring, insert a small piece of a wide rubberband behind one of the contact leaves. See https://imgur.com/gallery/csOFYRU (https://imgur.com/gallery/csOFYRU). Bump doesn't feel as long but overall feel is the same.
I'm going to get some of the new Pandas because I think it's an excellent switch to have for modding. Only uncertainty is in how many I'll be getting.
On a side note from the "Holy Pandas", regarding the alternative Zealios V2. Have they already started shipping out? I thought the estimated shipping was December?
I am now dumber for having read this entire thread.
The point of replicating the housing is sound and there are a lot of people who care about it. Holy pandas have a certain sound to them and in Nathan’s stream, you can hear a little bit of a difference between the two.
I think there's a certain counterintuitive dynamic here.
We (think we) know Supervan has already produced some material amount of switches - let's say 10k, so it's likely that no matter what happens the first (let's say) 10k buyers will get their switches even if it doesn't hit the technical moq. This is an assumption which could, in reality, be wrong (or right).
The counterintuitive part is that, if these gsus switches continue to live up to the early hype, the fewer people that go into the GB the higher the secondary market price of these switches will be in the aftermarket - based purely on the concept of demand and supply curves and the observable price of pandas in the weeks and months before nathan kim's stream.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that the marginal profit (ie secondary market price less gb cost for these purposes) that a buyer of a given amount of switches will be disproportionately higher the fewer switches are sold in the GB (notwithstanding the switches' higher cost at lower moq's). Demand curves are rarely straight, particularly for luxury items like keyboards generally and pandas in particular.
So, I intend to buy - and I hope noone else does!
I think there's a certain counterintuitive dynamic here.
We (think we) know Supervan has already produced some material amount of switches - let's say 10k, so it's likely that no matter what happens the first (let's say) 10k buyers will get their switches even if it doesn't hit the technical moq. This is an assumption which could, in reality, be wrong (or right).
The counterintuitive part is that, if these gsus switches continue to live up to the early hype, the fewer people that go into the GB the higher the secondary market price of these switches will be in the aftermarket - based purely on the concept of demand and supply curves and the observable price of pandas in the weeks and months before nathan kim's stream.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that the marginal profit (ie secondary market price less gb cost for these purposes) that a buyer of a given amount of switches will be disproportionately higher the fewer switches are sold in the GB (notwithstanding the switches' higher cost at lower moq's). Demand curves are rarely straight, particularly for luxury items like keyboards generally and pandas in particular.
So, I intend to buy - and I hope noone else does!
I am now dumber for having read this entire thread.
The point of replicating the housing is sound and there are a lot of people who care about it. Holy pandas have a certain sound to them and in Nathan’s stream, you can hear a little bit of a difference between the two.
As far as I can tell (and Nathan's reaction) they sound identical, Timestamp:
"No appreciation of SuperVan's proposed GB price."
As opposed to further aggravate SuperVan, the best way moving forward is to get enough people in the GB, so that the $1 mark can be hit.
Enough said.
I am also curious where the original Panda GB runners are? Are the molds really destroyed or not? We need to get to the bottom of this.
If original Panda runners can release an R2 at a lower pricing to counter SuperVan's pricing, maybe it will be good for the community.
Jesus, can we get a TLDR?
You have quite literally become the panda day trader. You buy switches upfront instead of after the orders from the GB come in so that you can control the pricing via arbitrary MOQ's and so that you control the supply of new panda switches. You sell them at ridiculous prices with disgusting profit margins because some people in this community think that aftermarket price = GB pricing and can be suckered into your pricing hierarchy. Jesus have mercy on your soul, the panda all father has sinned!
tl;dr
- MOQ's are unrealistic when compared to other maufacturer's. MOQ's are also arbitrary since Van is acting as a supplier, there is no collective order to the maufacturer like in standard GB's.
- There was little to no R&D done by van. Springs are stock BSUN springs, plastic mix is different, logo is different and most likely uses a modified BSUN mold. This also means that his cost to produce was lower. For reference, the OG pandas costed around 30c each to make, including R&D costs.
- The chinese promotional run was treated as more of a private GB. It's stated intention of being for promotion is a straight up lie.
- To everyone defending the price points: Does that mean that GB pricing should now be based on aftermarket values of their designs? Should popular artisan makers start selling their designs for hundreds of dollars because thats what they go for aftermarket? Should popular board makers like TGR start selling boards for 700-900 usd because that is the aftermarket price of their boards? GB pricing should not be determined by after market pricing, it is a slippery slope leading to gauged out GB prices.
I think there's a certain counterintuitive dynamic here.
We (think we) know Supervan has already produced some material amount of switches - let's say 10k, so it's likely that no matter what happens the first (let's say) 10k buyers will get their switches even if it doesn't hit the technical moq. This is an assumption which could, in reality, be wrong (or right).
The counterintuitive part is that, if these gsus switches continue to live up to the early hype, the fewer people that go into the GB the higher the secondary market price of these switches will be in the aftermarket - based purely on the concept of demand and supply curves and the observable price of pandas in the weeks and months before nathan kim's stream.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that the marginal profit (ie secondary market price less gb cost for these purposes) that a buyer of a given amount of switches will be disproportionately higher the fewer switches are sold in the GB (notwithstanding the switches' higher cost at lower moq's). Demand curves are rarely straight, particularly for luxury items like keyboards generally and pandas in particular.
So, I intend to buy - and I hope noone else does!
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVShow Image(https://i0.wp.com/whalereports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Carlos-Matos-2.jpg?ssl=1)
BICONNECTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
I think there's a certain counterintuitive dynamic here.
We (think we) know Supervan has already produced some material amount of switches - let's say 10k, so it's likely that no matter what happens the first (let's say) 10k buyers will get their switches even if it doesn't hit the technical moq. This is an assumption which could, in reality, be wrong (or right).
The counterintuitive part is that, if these gsus switches continue to live up to the early hype, the fewer people that go into the GB the higher the secondary market price of these switches will be in the aftermarket - based purely on the concept of demand and supply curves and the observable price of pandas in the weeks and months before nathan kim's stream.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that the marginal profit (ie secondary market price less gb cost for these purposes) that a buyer of a given amount of switches will be disproportionately higher the fewer switches are sold in the GB (notwithstanding the switches' higher cost at lower moq's). Demand curves are rarely straight, particularly for luxury items like keyboards generally and pandas in particular.
So, I intend to buy - and I hope noone else does!I am now dumber for having read this entire thread.
as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
Nah dude, there is no way someone came from reddit and made an account here because there is nothing discussing it on reddit. No way. Everyone here with a new account is obviously a paid shill.as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
You do know there's keyboard enthusiasts outside of this community, right?
Please, you don't sniff anything fishy when a brand new account makes it's first post praising a person who is getting flamed for taking people for a ride?as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
You do know there's keyboard enthusiasts outside of this community, right?
I am now dumber for having read this entire thread.
Please, you don't sniff anything fishy when a brand new account makes it's first post praising a person who is getting flamed for taking people for a ride?as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
You do know there's keyboard enthusiasts outside of this community, right?
A little convenient wouldn't you say? especially when this entire time information has been provided, taken back or "miscommunicated"
On top of that an ethusiast willing to drop $5/switch on a meme switch hasnt got a geekhack account? must have been in the minority.
*Just an observation anyway.
Maybe take off the tin-foil hat and realize not everything in the world is a conspiracy theory.
Please, you don't sniff anything fishy when a brand new account makes it's first post praising a person who is getting flamed for taking people for a ride?as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
You do know there's keyboard enthusiasts outside of this community, right?
A little convenient wouldn't you say? especially when this entire time information has been provided, taken back or "miscommunicated"
On top of that an ethusiast willing to drop $5/switch on a meme switch hasnt got a geekhack account? must have been in the minority.
*Just an observation anyway.
I know a guy that has a couple very nice, very expensive keyboards. I asked him if he got them from GH and he flat out said "what's that?" He's on here now, but he also just browses and doesn't have an account. Hell, there's 42 guests browsing this thread right now.
Maybe take off the tin-foil hat and realize not everything in the world is a conspiracy theory.
Maybe take off the tin-foil hat and realize not everything in the world is a conspiracy theory.
as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
Haha showed me!as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
2 year old account
Haha showed me!as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
2 year old account
Haha showed me!as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
2 year old account
welcome to my sig
Haha showed me!as someone who's paid $5/switch, I can't be happier. Having multiple boards with holy pandas(gsus) is no longer a dream. can't wait for the GB!
Well done!
New account. 1st post. k.
2 year old account
After reading through the previous posts for 5 pages, I have a mixed feeling about this GB...
I think I'm out too. I'll just wait for the round 2, when the market is saturated enough for the price to drop to about 50% of what is he asking now.Personally after looking at the Holy Pandas exponential growth under the last few months I would consider noting the sledgehammerish position we've reached going into 2018 Q4 with extreme caution:
If there's something crypto has taught me, it's to buy high and sell lowI think I'm out too. I'll just wait for the round 2, when the market is saturated enough for the price to drop to about 50% of what is he asking now.Personally after looking at the Holy Pandas exponential growth under the last few months I would consider noting the sledgehammerish position we've reached going into 2018 Q4 with extreme caution:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/3dxmtgD.png)
My advice would therefore be to approach Holy Pandas slowly but surely, but what's my opinion compared to the greats you might ask. To that I'll use my favorite quote from the legendary Warren Buffett:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/S3stblN.jpg)
Please hit like and smash subscribe for more indepth IC analyses!
I was super excited too, finally Panda back.. But I'm starting to doubt because 1$ or 1.5$ only for the housing, and who knows if the GB of halos when it comes will be the same.. at the end you will pay 3$+ for the switch.
There is obviously a disconnect in how people are viewing the pricing of these new pandas. A lot of people are looking at them from an aftermarket perspective, while others are viewing them from the POV of the original run. But let's face it, pandas were not middle of the pack linears, they are pretty ****ty linears. Everyone is suddenly looking at them through rose tinted hype lenses because of one mod. Zeal v2's are more tactile and sell at 75c per switch yet people are defending a switch that is less tactile and is a frankenswitch that goes for 1.50usd just for the housings, give me a break. Comparing them to market price is insane as well, by that logic TGR GB's should be running in the 700-900 dollar range, which they obviously don't.
What R&D did supervan do to bring these back? I suspect none. Nathan showed on his stream how bad the stock springs were and I have been talking to him on discord, I suspect that they are just stock BSUN springs due to how low quality they are. The plastic used for the new pandas is not exactly the same as the old pandas. It could be a similar formula used from a different supplier that has a similar color to the old pandas, but Im not 100% sold that they are the exact same plastic formula from the same supplier. The stems are remarkably rough, which makes sense since the panda stems were as well, but when you consider everything, pandas are basically modified BSUN's, and so are these switches, although to a lesser extent. They dont use a top housing with a custom logo and they most likely use stock BSUN springs. The material of the housing is probably different as well between the R2 and R1 pandas, R2 could very well have used a cheaper plastic mix for the housings than R1. So the cost of making these new pandas is probably less than the r1 pandas, which were at around 30c a switch from what I have heard.
Which brings me to this:For one thing, I ran a private GB in China for advertising panda switch. Actually pandas was not popular in China. You guys don't even know the limitation of private GB.
For another, it was a non-profit gb. Thanks for these guys' support and trust. It ended before NK's stream. It means they need a lot of courage to support me before the confirmation. Considering the cost of molds and occupation of fund of spot goods, I can say it was a non-profit gb. If you guys can provide panda switches at a low price even as same a guy said at 0.2 dollar. I would like to thank him for his contribution. You can question the price, but not surmise by yourself.
What is more. Of course you guys have right to join of skip the GB. As the runner of GB, I also have right to price. I won't change the price. Don't compare the price with the price of China's private GB. It just hitted MOQ.
If you guys think 1.5 dollar is too expensive. The most correct way is helping me to advertise instead of attacking me. Then the price will be drop to 1 dollar. Attacking me won't change anything, the GB will run also.
At the last, I will show you guys a new pic. These boxes are filled up with new pandas. It means I will ship them soon after the GB ended.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0GGKQvU.jpg)
The chinese run was a promotional run? How come I couldn't get in with a proxy then? Oh right, I'm not a part of your QQ group. In fact, noone outside of your qq group could get in. I thought advertisement was about displaying a product to the public, not only for a select few; funny how that works. Plus 60c per switch, considering my above statements on your R&D, is already a nice profit margin. If anything, the chinese run was a private group buy for your friends so that they wouldn't have to pay flipper prices for mediocre linears. If the chinese run had a set price, then why do we have MOQ's?
You have also sent out samples to three of the biggest personalities in the western community, a community that knows fully well what pandas are, and you claim that there is not enough advertising? Are you serious? Your little rant about jesus and poor people is a meme now, congrats bud. This buy is the talk of the town, there is noone who doesn't know it, besides maybe people on r/mk and even then people there probably know about this.
Which brings me to your MOQ's. You bring it up so much that the MOQ for these switches are so restrictive, yet you paid for the chinese GB's amount of switches upfront? What? It just ended one day ago! That is unheard of and quite bizarre. Next, I'm going to be real with you, your MOQ's are made up. 25c price drops between the first 10k, but also for between 20k and 50k switches? How many switches did you buy upfront and at what price? In order for those MOQ prices to not have huge profit margins, the switches would have to cost around 1.35c each to make (have to consider logistical costs) at MOQ 10k. 1.05c at MOQ 20k, you get the idea. There is no way that these switches are costing you even 30c each to make, heck maybe not even 25c each to make. As I explained above, your R&D costs (if there were any, which is unlikely), would be way lower than R1 pandas, which costed around 30c each to make at lowest MOQ. The MOQ pricing structure for cherry, gateron, kailh, etc are nowhere near what you are suggesting for BSUN. Not even in the same solar system. How is it that the cost of these switches can drop 25c per for manufacturing when arrow sells retooled cherry switches for 35-27c each depending on MOQ?
If you have already bought the switches, then that means the only MOQ that is listed is the one that you have arbitrarily chosen. This isn't a standard GB, we don't collectively submit an order to BSUN for the switches, we are buying from you as you are a supplier, and that means that your MOQ's can be different than the manufacturer's MOQ's; further proving my point.
You have quite literally become the panda day trader. You buy switches upfront instead of after the orders from the GB come in so that you can control the pricing via arbitrary MOQ's and so that you control the supply of new panda switches. You sell them at ridiculous prices with disgusting profit margins because some people in this community think that aftermarket price = GB pricing and can be suckered into your pricing hierarchy. Jesus have mercy on your soul, the panda all father has sinned!
tl;dr
- MOQ's are unrealistic when compared to other maufacturer's. MOQ's are also arbitrary since Van is acting as a supplier, there is no collective order to the maufacturer like in standard GB's.
- There was little to no R&D done by van. Springs are stock BSUN springs, plastic mix is different, logo is different and most likely uses a modified BSUN mold. This also means that his cost to produce was lower. For reference, the OG pandas costed around 30c each to make, including R&D costs.
- The chinese promotional run was treated as more of a private GB. It's stated intention of being for promotion is a straight up lie.
- To everyone defending the price points: Does that mean that GB pricing should now be based on aftermarket values of their designs? Should popular artisan makers start selling their designs for hundreds of dollars because thats what they go for aftermarket? Should popular board makers like TGR start selling boards for 700-900 usd because that is the aftermarket price of their boards? GB pricing should not be determined by after market pricing, it is a slippery slope leading to gauged out GB prices.
because of that I can’t understand why SuperVan doesn’t take this seriously.
Even with a monopoly it’s necessary to communicate with and be polite to all potential buyers.because of that I can’t understand why SuperVan doesn’t take this seriously.
Because he's potentially got a monopoly on one of the most sought after & expensive switches on the market.