Author Topic: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch  (Read 97144 times)

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Offline dario

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 03:49:25 »
Quote
Make the stem red and just call it a Red Panda

Or make a brown stem and call it Brown Panda (yes, brown panda does exist).  :)

Make a white stem and call it Polar Panda. This one sounds the best, but it does not exist in the wild.

Quote
That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!

Let me tell you a dirty secret, there is no shortage of Aristotle switches. They are available for cheap from Aliexpress, it's just that they don't call them Aristotle anymore.

However, I never got a chance to compare Zealiostotle to Holy Pandas. Somehing tells me Pandas would be better option for tactile switches.

Offline qq

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #101 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 04:27:03 »
OP should have taken a more stealthy move by giving the sample to a few prominent individuals to confirm before opening an IC and get many negative unexpected skeptics.

From a buyer's viewpoint, there is nothing to rant about this IC, it costs you nothing while OP assures he will get someones to confirm the genuineness of his product. Even if the sample turned out not genuine, bad things would happen to OP, not you, buyers. Your money, your choice, why are you so upset?

Offline _ODIN_

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 09:22:32 »
OP should have taken a more stealthy move by giving the sample to a few prominent individuals to confirm before opening an IC and get many negative unexpected skeptics.

From a buyer's viewpoint, there is nothing to rant about this IC, it costs you nothing while OP assures he will get someones to confirm the genuineness of his product. Even if the sample turned out not genuine, bad things would happen to OP, not you, buyers. Your money, your choice, why are you so upset?
My opinion as well

Offline mopaska

  • Posts: 31
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 10:02:02 »
OP should have taken a more stealthy move by giving the sample to a few prominent individuals to confirm before opening an IC and get many negative unexpected skeptics.

From a buyer's viewpoint, there is nothing to rant about this IC, it costs you nothing while OP assures he will get someones to confirm the genuineness of his product. Even if the sample turned out not genuine, bad things would happen to OP, not you, buyers. Your money, your choice, why are you so upset?
My opinion as well
All of the activity, positive and negative, this topic has generated is technically fulfilling the purpose of an IC though :) Whether you think the OP is simply lying or not, I don't think a person that has posted in this thread isn't interested in another round of Panda switches.

Some of us are just impatient and wish the OP had a sample already prepared to test :)


Offline dario

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 12:57:44 »
You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.

I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.

- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English

- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"

- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf

- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany

- GB is going this month

Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:02:39 »
As I said on reddit:


Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.


Offline dario

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:07:12 »
As I said on reddit:


Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.

I'll be satusfied with three opinions. If you like boxing, you've seen they have three judges too.

If you want more, than wait for people to buy them and read customer reviews.

Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:09:34 »
As I said on reddit:


Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.

I'll be satusfied with three opinions. If you like boxing, you've seen they have three judges too.

If you want more, than wait for people to buy them and read customer reviews.

This isn't boxing, lol. It's not even close. Compared to a 'normal' switch IC, this has more at stake simply because of the Panda name and legend. I'd much rather have more opinions to pull from before I make a decision to pull the trigger on 120+ of these. Many people share the same sentiment.

Doing it how Novelkeys did with the POM cream linears and how Zeal has done in the past with Zilents and his new Zealio V2's would be wise.

Offline Acereconkeys

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:11:27 »
You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.

I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.

- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English

- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"

- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf

- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany

- GB is going this month

Curious, what's your sources on claims 2 and 3? Where has this been said/established?
TMO50 | Jane V2 CE Incoming | Realforce 87u 55g | Aergo

Aergo design and build log: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103681.msg2840918#msg2840918

Offline dario

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:21:53 »
Curious, what's your sources on claims 2 and 3? Where has this been said/established?

Official reddit thread on New Pandas (it seems, that's how he plans to call them).

Offline mopaska

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:34:25 »
Linking the oft-mentioned thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9md09u/icnew_original_panda_linear_switch/

Both OG Panda ppl (/u/zisb and pete) sound off in the thread as well.

TL;DR - Maybe OP has a mold for housing identical to invyr but without invyr branding. Or maybe, as Pete said, the factory sold the guy a bill of goods, made a promise that can't be met, and OP will receive the same samples that Pete and /u/zisb received and rejected.

Offline SuperVan

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #112 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:40:28 »
You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.

I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.

- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English

- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"

- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf

- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany

- GB is going this month
Thanks for your comment. I really suck at arguing in English. Some guys managed to bring the discussion off track. I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed. zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold.  He decided to use goldplated springs instead of original springs in his Pandas R2. Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.

Offline mopaska

  • Posts: 31
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #113 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 13:45:59 »
You have no idea how right I was when I said earlier in this thread that this is going to grow into full blown crime novel.

I don't think I have ever seen so complicated and intriguing story around a single keyswitch. Just spent an hour reading various informations about Pandagate both on reddit and other places so to save you the effort here's a summary.

- The OP is Chinese living in Russia, he's having problems communicating in English

- He's claiming original makers of Panda switch are lying to us, and that original Panda molds are not destroyed. He knows why are they lying, but he can't say because "too many secrets"

- He claims original Panda is the same switch as BSUN switch, except leaf

- He is going to produce new leafs in Germany

- GB is going this month
Thanks for your comment. I really suck at arguing in English. Some guys managed to bring the discussion off track. I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed. zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold.  He decided to use goldplated springs instead of original springs in his Pandas R2. Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.
:thumb:
And for what it is worth, Pete's posts on reddit are cautiously supportive of SuperVan. The goal is to recreate the panda, and SuperVan is, at the moment, trying to spearhead that.

Offline Hedgey

  • Posts: 249
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #114 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 14:05:30 »
I feel bad for SuperVan for getting roasted in the Reddit thread and here.

Guy wants to bring switches that are highly sought after back to market, and everyone has already made the decision that they know everything there is to know about molds, housings, materials, and anything else involved with them.  Yet only 3 or 4 people seem to have seen first hand any of the relevant information.

I don't get why people who can't even afford the current switches are basically so skeptical and calling this guy a liar when he's doing an IC rather than a group buy.  He's not asked anyone for money, and he's getting samples to the right people before even proceeding further.  The faux gatekeeping in this community is really off putting IMO.

Anyway, I hope this all pans out and we see some more Pandas on the market at reasonable prices.
"Resellers don't kill the community, auctioneers kill the community. Look at what happened to Diablo 3"

Offline dimo

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 14:22:31 »
I feel bad for SuperVan for getting roasted in the Reddit thread and here.

Guy wants to bring switches that are highly sought after back to market, and everyone has already made the decision that they know everything there is to know about molds, housings, materials, and anything else involved with them.  Yet only 3 or 4 people seem to have seen first hand any of the relevant information.

I don't get why people who can't even afford the current switches are basically so skeptical and calling this guy a liar when he's doing an IC rather than a group buy.  He's not asked anyone for money, and he's getting samples to the right people before even proceeding further.  The faux gatekeeping in this community is really off putting IMO.

Anyway, I hope this all pans out and we see some more Pandas on the market at reasonable prices.

I agree. He’s literally not done anything yet other than putting forth an idea— and the fact that he’s giving samples to very well known and credible members will be a great indicator for how it’ll all proceed and counters the people calling him “shady”.

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 697
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 14:28:05 »
I feel bad for SuperVan for getting roasted in the Reddit thread and here.

Guy wants to bring switches that are highly sought after back to market, and everyone has already made the decision that they know everything there is to know about molds, housings, materials, and anything else involved with them.  Yet only 3 or 4 people seem to have seen first hand any of the relevant information.

I don't get why people who can't even afford the current switches are basically so skeptical and calling this guy a liar when he's doing an IC rather than a group buy.  He's not asked anyone for money, and he's getting samples to the right people before even proceeding further.  The faux gatekeeping in this community is really off putting IMO.

Anyway, I hope this all pans out and we see some more Pandas on the market at reasonable prices.

yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit.  A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.

While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.

Offline dario

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #117 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 14:46:41 »
Okay, so the story slowly unfolds. But I still can't quite wrap my mind around all this because some details are missing. Let's try to clarify.

I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed.

What exactly do you mean by saying "original molds"?

Are those the molds that are used to produce BSUN switch?

Or are those molds used to produce Inyr Panda switch?

Those two molds should be different molds because of the obvious reasons - BSUNs don't have Invyr logo on them.

Quote
zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold.

Okay, so if I managed to decipher this correctly - what you want to say is this: after the first round of Invyr Panda switch, they had an idea to maximise profit by making cheaper low-quality mold for Panda R2. This is what caused ****ked up Panda switches with loose tops.

At some point, they realized their mistake and decided to make a new high quality mold, but it was kinda late because you already paid for the new mold from your own pocket.

So, essentially, this is a timerace who will get Panda R2 to the market first. Whoever does it, makes a lot of money.

If this is correct, then I was completely right with my first assumption in this thread, when I said there is a possibility Invyr simply didn't put enough money into this (which is perfectly justifiable from the bussiness perspective, just to be clear).

Quote
Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.

Actually, what you said is this:

Quote
The leaf of New Pandas are made in Germany. Bsuns are made in China.

What I still don't understand is this:

- If Panda switches are basically BSUN switches, why did you have to pay for new molds? You could just use existing ones.

- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?

Offline Hedgey

  • Posts: 249
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #118 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 15:07:55 »

yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit.  A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.

While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.

Seems to be the norm these days.  Easier to flame someone who wants to push the envelope or provide something never done, rather than sit back and be patient.  It's the same people that scream when they want more keys in a keyset GB, without the price being raised.  It's the same people who look down on others because they don't "grasp the quality" of spending $600 on a keyboard. 

It's getting lost in the hobby that you're supposed to be doing what you want, for you.  Not for others....
"Resellers don't kill the community, auctioneers kill the community. Look at what happened to Diablo 3"

Offline SuperVan

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #119 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 15:13:44 »
Okay, so the story slowly unfolds. But I still can't quite wrap my mind around all this because some details are missing. Let's try to clarify.

I make sure that the original Pandas mold haven't been destroyed.

What exactly do you mean by saying "original molds"?

Are those the molds that are used to produce BSUN switch?

Or are those molds used to produce Inyr Panda switch?

Those two molds should be different molds because of the obvious reasons - BSUNs don't have Invyr logo on them.

Quote
zisb's Pandas R2 will use a new mold, not original mold. zisb asked his classmate to make a new mold. The new mold is low-priced and low-quality. The yield rate of his Panda R2 can only reach 70%, because of the mold.

Okay, so if I managed to decipher this correctly - what you want to say is this: after the first round of Invyr Panda switch, they had an idea to maximise profit by making cheaper low-quality mold for Panda R2. This is what caused ****ked up Panda switches with loose tops.

At some point, they realized their mistake and decided to make a new high quality mold, but it was kinda late because you already paid for the new mold from your own pocket.

So, essentially, this is a timerace who will get Panda R2 to the market first. Whoever does it, makes a lot of money.

If this is correct, then I was completely right with my first assumption in this thread, when I said there is a possibility Invyr simply didn't put enough money into this (which is perfectly justifiable from the bussiness perspective, just to be clear).

Quote
Correct a mistake, I never said I'm going to produce new leafs in Germany. I said the original leaf was made in Germany. Thanks.

Actually, what you said is this:

Quote
The leaf of New Pandas are made in Germany. Bsuns are made in China.

What I still don't understand is this:

- If Panda switches are basically BSUN switches, why did you have to pay for new molds? You could just use existing ones.

- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?
I've told you all information about New Pandas. If you want to know more, you can ask zisb. I won't conjecture his ideas. All I need to do is making sure that the New Pandas are the same as original Pandas. Focusing on New Pandas, but not the story. There's no comment about others. It's my right to keep something a secret.

Offline phorx

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #120 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 15:30:31 »
Again, please do not call these "Pandas", "New Pandas", etc.  I say this even if what you produce turns out to be identical.   That naming should belong exclusively to the original switches, unless the original makers provide you explicit permission to use it. The original makers don't seem like the litigious sort, but they could have legal recourse against you for using that name.

Beyond the legal stuff, calling these Pandas just makes it confusing for buyers, especially in secondary markets like r/mm.  That's not even counting the headache when describing franken-switch variants...

Offline mopaska

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #121 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 15:35:26 »

- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?

You've been following the reddit thread too right?

There's a couple possibilities here. Both Pete and zisb confirmed that leaf, spring, and slider(? I think?) were matching the original Pandas in the samples they received previously.

So among possible outcomes.
  • As Pete mentioned: OP contacted the factory and received some impossible promise (i.e. 'yes, molds exist') and on this reassurance OP is requesting samples.
  • Due to OP being Chinese, perhaps a language barrier is overcome and BSUN molds were located that are consistent with the 'happy mistake' that resulted in the Invyr Panda.

In any case, we wait. OP plans for a GB at the end of the month, leading me to infer that he's waiting on samples to send out for testing already. In any case, we'll know how this iteration of the attempt to create Invyr Panda r2 in a lot shorter time frame than we wait for SP to finish a keycap production run ;)

Lastly, @SuperVan - send a sample to Nathan Kim (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMHXMAeKkI6HXlPfLiYvo9g) to test as well!

Offline Acereconkeys

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #122 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 16:06:37 »

yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit.  A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.

While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.

Seems to be the norm these days.  Easier to flame someone who wants to push the envelope or provide something never done, rather than sit back and be patient.  It's the same people that scream when they want more keys in a keyset GB, without the price being raised.  It's the same people who look down on others because they don't "grasp the quality" of spending $600 on a keyboard. 

It's getting lost in the hobby that you're supposed to be doing what you want, for you.  Not for others....

Not going to address that whole slew of conclusion jumping (interesting given your apparent disdain for people jumping to conclusions) and just say one thing you're not addressing is that "pushing the envelope" is not the same thing as "copying name brand of existing product to drum up hype". If this guy came in and proposed a new switch with new novel leaf/housing design designed to work well with tactile stems I think people would be less reactive.
TMO50 | Jane V2 CE Incoming | Realforce 87u 55g | Aergo

Aergo design and build log: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103681.msg2840918#msg2840918

Offline dario

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 16:11:00 »
Quote
So among possible outcomes.
  • As Pete mentioned: OP contacted the factory and received some impossible promise (i.e. 'yes, molds exist') and on this reassurance OP is requesting samples.

This is a possibility, but not likely possibility if you ask me. On more than one occasion he made an impression he knows everything about a switch that is to be known, or at least that was what he was going for.

My spidey sense is telling me there is something he's not willing to admit, and this is what makes it interesting.


Quote
  • Due to OP being Chinese, perhaps a language barrier is overcome and BSUN molds were located that are consistent with the 'happy mistake' that resulted in the Invyr Panda.

Well, yeah, this is an interesting thought for sure.
But he did made it clear that the real difference between BSUN and Pandas are German-made leafs.

Since he's not planing to make his leafs in the same factory, it remains to be seen how this all turns out. I wish him all the best.

Also, he was quite specific he bought the mold. I guess this means he'll be using newly-made mold, not some dusty accidentally forgoten BSUN mold.

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #124 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 16:14:51 »

- If leaf if the only significant difference between BSUN and Invyr Panda, are you planing to reproduce them too?

You've been following the reddit thread too right?

There's a couple possibilities here. Both Pete and zisb confirmed that leaf, spring, and slider(? I think?) were matching the original Pandas in the samples they received previously.

So among possible outcomes.
  • As Pete mentioned: OP contacted the factory and received some impossible promise (i.e. 'yes, molds exist') and on this reassurance OP is requesting samples.
  • Due to OP being Chinese, perhaps a language barrier is overcome and BSUN molds were located that are consistent with the 'happy mistake' that resulted in the Invyr Panda.

In any case, we wait. OP plans for a GB at the end of the month, leading me to infer that he's waiting on samples to send out for testing already. In any case, we'll know how this iteration of the attempt to create Invyr Panda r2 in a lot shorter time frame than we wait for SP to finish a keycap production run ;)

Lastly, @SuperVan - send a sample to Nathan Kim (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMHXMAeKkI6HXlPfLiYvo9g) to test as well!


My source of information says multiple parties are trying to replicate OG Panda, including original Invyr panda makers. I am hoping at least one of them succeed.

Affordable Holy Panda for everyone!

Offline ullr

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #125 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 17:01:47 »
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?

Offline Atredl

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[IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #126 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 17:44:53 »
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?
Not sure if serious but if you are, glass has a higher coefficient of friction compared to the plastics commonly used for stems. There’s also the issue that most glass is quite a bit more brittle than most plastics unless you’re talking about expensive “gorilla glass” type materials. Finally, glass isn’t as compressible as POM so you’d probably get a lot of cracked keycap stems. Think Boxgate x 2.
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 October 2018, 17:46:54 by Atredl »

Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 214
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #127 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 18:20:25 »
Why are you stealing the name Pandas?
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TKL: TGR Jane V2, Jane V2 CE, KFE, Noxary 280 S, Acrylic Unicorn, Igris V1, LZ-GHv2

Bulgogi Board (VA104M), Belle En Rose

Offline superdoedoe

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Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #128 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 18:21:31 »
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?
Not sure if serious but if you are, glass has a higher coefficient of friction compared to the plastics commonly used for stems. There’s also the issue that most glass is quite a bit more brittle than most plastics unless you’re talking about expensive “gorilla glass” type materials. Finally, glass isn’t as compressible as POM so you’d probably get a lot of cracked keycap stems. Think Boxgate x 2.

Jimi 2.0

Offline Atredl

  • Posts: 805
  • Location: SoCal
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #129 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 19:12:54 »
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?
Not sure if serious but if you are, glass has a higher coefficient of friction compared to the plastics commonly used for stems. There’s also the issue that most glass is quite a bit more brittle than most plastics unless you’re talking about expensive “gorilla glass” type materials. Finally, glass isn’t as compressible as POM so you’d probably get a lot of cracked keycap stems. Think Boxgate x 2.

Jimi 2.0
Only positive vibes please.

Offline Sissy

  • Posts: 494
  • Location: Australia
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #130 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 01:33:57 »
Is it possible to have pandas with glass stems?
Jimi noooooooo!

Offline Hayte

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #131 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 01:52:17 »
yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit.  A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.

While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.

I very much agree that SuperVan doesn't deserve the heat he is getting, but it is in no way comparable to Kailh and box stems. Of course users don't know what the stem issues are - most of us are not material scientists. We don't know how polymers deform/fracture. Most of us do not have the tools to measure things accurately to a tenth of a millimetre. Nevertheless, box switches have a very real problem with the design of the cruciform/stem. Thats real, and it isn't Kailh figuring it out. Its people spending their own money and sacrificing their own keycaps to confirm a hunch. I have personally spent over €120 on keycaps and switches that are now either broken or unusable. I don't think its unreasonable to point out theres a problem and spend your own money trying to figure it out because the manufacturer of the switch hasn't.

Offline OracleKev

  • Posts: 418
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #132 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 02:04:56 »
yea getting a bit sick of the community honestly. This dude did not deserve half the heat he has gotten. The same with box switches.. they slim down the specs to be inline with cherry's cause that's what everyone with there arm chair degree's knew was the issue. Guess what issues still there and now people are still mad with no clue what the issue really is. Then there is the candy key's thing on Reddit.  A number of people jumped Candy before even getting all the facts. Turns out there was no issue at all. The guy that runs the event does it part time and doesn't want the hassle of having to organize a bunch of vendors. The simple solution was if people didn't like it run there on event. There a number of other examples yea its getting old.

While there is a lot of people getting along and having a good time. Post that people get roasted in are becoming more and more common place it feels like. I Just you know I didn't join the community to see people roast each other and cause drama over nothing. I mean dude is supplying 2 of the best known names in the Keyboard community switches. That way they can test and see if they feel correct before moving forward. I don't know what else QC wise he could do to prove there authentic reproductions.

I very much agree that SuperVan doesn't deserve the heat he is getting, but it is in no way comparable to Kailh and box stems. Of course users don't know what the stem issues are - most of us are not material scientists. We don't know how polymers deform/fracture. Most of us do not have the tools to measure things accurately to a tenth of a millimetre. Nevertheless, box switches have a very real problem with the design of the cruciform/stem. Thats real, and it isn't Kailh figuring it out. Its people spending their own money and sacrificing their own keycaps to confirm a hunch. I have personally spent over €120 on keycaps and switches that are now either broken or unusable. I don't think its unreasonable to point out theres a problem and spend your own money trying to figure it out because the manufacturer of the switch hasn't.

+1 No similarities with Box Switch issues.

To OP: Just replicate.  You don't need to disclose how you did it.

Offline megaforce

  • Posts: 1087
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #133 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:06:20 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.

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More
Hokusai | Ogre| Yohane | Mc65 | Kaze | RBB
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Offline hineybush

  • * Maker
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  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
  • student of error
    • hineybush keyboards
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #134 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:14:42 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.

I think the goal is to replicate the housing and ship it with a crappy linear stem as a placeholder

Offline mopaska

  • Posts: 31
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #135 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:23:45 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.
In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)

Offline megaforce

  • Posts: 1087
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #136 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:33:24 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.
In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)

retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)

get some lube on there and you're set.

everything else is trash.
Corsair K63 Wireless | Razer Huntsman Elite
More
Hokusai | Ogre| Yohane | Mc65 | Kaze | RBB
Former: LZ MX | LZ FE | LZ CLS TKL Silver |LZ CLS TKL Gray| LZ St | V.EA | Blackbird | LSV3 | OctagonV2 | Norbatouch | X60 | TX84 | Kyuu | SSK | 268.1| Jane CE | Corsair K95 | X60R | HHKB JP x JS HiPro | 910 CE |Nunu |Nunu FE | Jane V2 CE|Jane V2| RS (TKL)


Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 1054
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #137 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:36:04 »
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit.

In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).

Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam. 


Ok let's give him some credibility, but stop assuming that sending few samples makes this whole IC (as long with the reddit one) not shady. 
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:43:45 by KaosJ »




Offline wholypantalones

  • Posts: 878
  • Location: The Mitten
  • text and icon mods plz.
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #138 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:38:04 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.
In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)

retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)

get some lube on there and you're set.

everything else is trash.

I concur.

Offline hineybush

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 1648
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
  • student of error
    • hineybush keyboards
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #139 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:43:05 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.
In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)

retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)

get some lube on there and you're set.

everything else is trash.

I concur.

Been hearing good things about Greetech Blacks as well.

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2640
  • Location: US
  • 65% is Life
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #140 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:46:51 »
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit.

In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).

Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam.

It is pre-mature and outright wrong to suggest with the connotation that this is a scam. Let's just wait for this to unfold. There are enough people warning about this not being legit, I am sure people understand the risk.

Personally, I don't care who will make it, OP, KBDfans, or 1up, or Invyr, just sell it for ~1 dollar each piece, plus halo and a customized spring it will be around $1.6-1.7 bucks. Still reasonable. $6 is a crazy price I cannot afford.

Holy panda for everyone!

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2640
  • Location: US
  • 65% is Life
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #141 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:48:10 »
Just got 200 Greetech Razers, will try them out with Halo stem soon.

Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 1054
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #142 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:50:48 »
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit.

In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).

Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam.

It is pre-mature and outright wrong to suggest with the connotation that this is a scam. Let's just wait for this to unfold. There are enough people warning about this not being legit, I am sure people understand the risk.

Personally, I don't care who will make it, OP, KBDfans, or 1up, or Invyr, just sell it for ~1 dollar each piece, plus halo and a customized spring it will be around $1.6-1.7 bucks. Still reasonable. $6 is a crazy price I cannot afford.

Holy panda for everyone!

I highly doubt and still smell the disappointment when a $1 BSUN dressed as a Panda will arrive, but yeah let's hope and pretend this will go alright (I honestly do)




Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2640
  • Location: US
  • 65% is Life
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #143 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:54:14 »
One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit.

In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

I could send to TopClack samples too if i had just a top of the same colors of the panda with no logo (what OP said he has).

Pretty easy: Disassemble a panda and put your top on it. Reviewers will say it's equal to a panda and everyone will buy that scam.

It is pre-mature and outright wrong to suggest with the connotation that this is a scam. Let's just wait for this to unfold. There are enough people warning about this not being legit, I am sure people understand the risk.

Personally, I don't care who will make it, OP, KBDfans, or 1up, or Invyr, just sell it for ~1 dollar each piece, plus halo and a customized spring it will be around $1.6-1.7 bucks. Still reasonable. $6 is a crazy price I cannot afford.

Holy panda for everyone!

I highly doubt and still smell the disappointment when a $1 BSUN dressed as a Panda will arrive, but yeah let's hope and pretend this will go alright (I honestly do)

The truth will get out, no need to jump to conclusions so quickly IMO. I believe all of us are erring on the caution.

Offline wholypantalones

  • Posts: 878
  • Location: The Mitten
  • text and icon mods plz.
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #144 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:59:14 »
why are people still trying to make garbage mx style linears a thing.
In your opinion, what is a superior style linear switch? (sincerely curious)

retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)

get some lube on there and you're set.

everything else is trash.

I concur.

Been hearing good things about Greetech Blacks as well.

Tried so many switches and combinations and they're all just disappointing in the end.

Retooled blacks with 63.5g springs and trybosis. Done.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 October 2018, 16:04:18 by wholypantalones »

Offline dario

  • Posts: 217
  • Location: Croatia
  • obsessive–compulsive hardware slut
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #145 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 14:11:57 »
Tried so many combinations and they're all just disappointing in the end.

Just like life itself.

Offline mopaska

  • Posts: 31
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #146 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 14:23:08 »

retooled mx blacks (~30-35cents)
gateron black/yellow (~15-20cents)

get some lube on there and you're set.

everything else is trash.

I misunderstood... When you wrote "MX Style" I assumed you were meaning the entire MX style of leaf and slider. I was legit ready to read about the superior feel of clean ALPS switches or something :)


Offline wholypantalones

  • Posts: 878
  • Location: The Mitten
  • text and icon mods plz.
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #147 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 14:34:16 »
Tried so many combinations and they're all just disappointing in the end.

Just like life itself.

Sounds like you need some gritty tactile switches in your life.

Offline dubious

  • 쏘쿨
  • Posts: 573
  • Location: shralpin the gnar
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #148 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 16:46:30 »
interested

Offline Quakemz

  • Posts: 91
  • Location: Washington
Re: [IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch
« Reply #149 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 18:42:47 »
As I said on reddit:


Send the samples to numerous community personalities who are higher profile/trusted/respected. Send them to meetups, have even more people test them, get more feedback. Nothing against Huey, Brian and Walker, but I'd prefer a wider breadth of feedback than just three opinions.

If he is sending me as many samples as he says he is, I plan to send some out to others, as well. I will hopefully have at least 100 to send out to reputable and experienced people that are familiar with Pandas and Holy Pandas. I will be testing side-by-side with my Holy Panda board. I will gladly send you some, if you'd like, and if you or anyone else has ideas on who else should be getting some samples, please let me know. I've been talking a lot with SuperVan in private, as he wants me to test these for him to compare, and he seems pretty genuine about everything, but of course we won't know how the switches will be until they are in our hands. I will be as detailed and honest as possible, when that time arrives. Like most of you, I hope this goes very well.

-Quakemz of Top Clack