Author Topic: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?  (Read 13323 times)

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Offline moonexe

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What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 07:02:16 »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you bottom out on a key, you hit the bottom of the switch, regardless of the cap, right? So what's with everyone saying cherry profile has a shorter travel distance? Just because the cap itself is higher shouldn't make the distance to bottom out is any longer... Right? :eek:

It's been on my mind for a while, but here, let's see whan you guys have to say. :rolleyes:

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Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 07:30:59 »
You are absolutely correct. The keycaps don't affect the travel of the switch unless they impact the switch casing (which none of the ones I know of do).

They can affect the feeling of typing on them, though.
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Offline Danule

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 08:12:16 »
don't taller caps have more travel before hitting the plastic on the switch housing?
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Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 08:32:12 »
don't taller caps have more travel before hitting the plastic on the switch housing?

The caps don't hit the switch. The slider inside the switch hits the bottom of the casing first.
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Offline tbc

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:19:29 »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you bottom out on a key, you hit the bottom of the switch, regardless of the cap, right? So what's with everyone saying cherry profile has a shorter travel distance? Just because the cap itself is higher shouldn't make the distance to bottom out is any longer... Right? :eek:

can you give a quote of someone saying that?
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:30:19 by tbc »
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Offline riotonthebay

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:21:48 »
Sure thing:

The caps don't hit the switch. The slider inside the switch hits the bottom of the casing first.

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 16:51:50 »
If you put o-rings on your keycaps, then it does make a difference.  The same o-ring will change the travel distance differently on an OEM vs Cherry profile.  That is possibly where the confusion comes from.

Offline HPE1000

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 16:54:49 »
Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.

Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.

Offline Binge

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 17:02:46 »
Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.

Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.
Show Image


that key has no internal latis-- therefore the sound is coming from the slider of the key switch hitting the bottom of the housing.

Cherry keycaps have that cross-bar which does make contact with the housing.  I dislike SP keys because they lack the cross-bar lattice
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Offline HPE1000

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 17:08:23 »
Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.

Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.
Show Image


that key has no internal latis-- therefore the sound is coming from the slider of the key switch hitting the bottom of the housing.

Cherry keycaps have that cross-bar which does make contact with the housing.  I dislike SP keys because they lack the cross-bar lattice
It most certainly has the cross sections in it, it is just slightly transparent in the picture since the light is so bright.
Red is the key outline, green is the cros section.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 January 2014, 17:10:10 by HPE1000 »

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 17:11:53 »
Only reasonable thing to do, Binge, is cut one of your vintage cherry keycaps in half and take a similar pic.

Offline HPE1000

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 17:12:55 »
Only reasonable thing to do, Binge, is cut one of your vintage cherry keycaps in half and take a similar pic.
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Offline Binge

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:08:29 »
Only reasonable thing to do, Binge, is cut one of your vintage cherry keycaps in half and take a similar pic.

wouldn't be a problem but then I couldn't make a bingecap out of it. :(

Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.

Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.
Show Image


that key has no internal latis-- therefore the sound is coming from the slider of the key switch hitting the bottom of the housing.

Cherry keycaps have that cross-bar which does make contact with the housing.  I dislike SP keys because they lack the cross-bar lattice
It most certainly has the cross sections in it, it is just slightly transparent in the picture since the light is so bright.
Red is the key outline, green is the cros section.
Show Image


Interesting find.  Who is the OEM of that cap?
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Offline HPE1000

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:10:10 »
That keycap was from a QFR, I destroyed a bunch of the keycaps because I was salvaging stems at one point in time.

Offline moonexe

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:57:22 »
Now I wish I had some keycaps to cut in half :rolleyes:

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Offline Pacifist

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 20:26:37 »
Now I wish I had some keycaps to cut in half :rolleyes:

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Offline Findecanor

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 20:27:23 »
If you put o-rings on your keycaps, then it does make a difference.  The same o-ring will change the travel distance differently on an OEM vs Cherry profile.  That is possibly where the confusion comes from.
Ah yes. The crossbars on Cherry profile are lower than the crossbars on OEM profile.

With Cherry profile keycaps use "orthodontic bands" instead. They are thinner -- too thin for OEM profile but just right for Cherry. 3/16" Medium is the right size.
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Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 20:36:52 »
Now I wish I had some keycaps to cut in half :rolleyes:

I don't know what we are trying to prove here. 

I have a thick cherry profile keycap, both sized o-rings and a switch with an LED in front of me.  If you can clearly describe what you want to test I can show you...

50293-0

Edit: And yes, I am prepared to cut this keycap in half...

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 20:43:35 »
If you put o-rings on your keycaps, then it does make a difference.  The same o-ring will change the travel distance differently on an OEM vs Cherry profile.  That is possibly where the confusion comes from.
Ah yes. The crossbars on Cherry profile are lower than the crossbars on OEM profile.

With Cherry profile keycaps use "orthodontic bands" instead. They are thinner -- too thin for OEM profile but just right for Cherry. 3/16" Medium is the right size.

I have not tried those.  Would be interested to give them a shot.  I enjoy red o-rings on my browns with cherry profile.  I find it very comfortable.  The blacks in the picture in prev post I find too large and it feels really, umm, jammed up?  The bump and the full press are just too close together.  I suspect the black ones would be pretty nice on OEM.  I am interested to see how the SA profiles feel.  The blacks may be good for those as well.  Time will tell for me...


Offline moonexe

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 22:40:10 »
Essentially what we're trying to see is whether the top of the keycap hits the switch before the switch itself bottoms out... So whether or not the cap affects the travel distance :p

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Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 02:27:45 »
There is an easy way to test this WITHOUT cutting up valued keycaps. Measure the distance the key moves before bottoming out with the cap on and with it off (using an accurate instrument of course, such as a dial indicator). If it moves less with the cap on, then the cap is hitting first, if the distance is the same, the cap isn't hitting the case.

I know for certain that all the caps I have don't hit the case, but I don't have any Cherry profile caps, although from what I have read they also don't hit, even though the distance from the cap to the case is less than with an OEM cap.

I think I'd like red orings on Cherry caps. I found them a little too subtle with OEM caps.
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Offline moonexe

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 04:23:54 »
I don't know about o-rings, but I have a set of firm landing pads from elitekeyboards in the mail, so we'll see how that goes. From the pictures they look like 0.5mm or so in thickness

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Offline swill

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What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 08:40:25 »
I used a caliper and measured this the best I could...  Keep in mind that there is probably a variance of about +/- .1 mm since it is very difficult to be perfectly accurate with components that move when you try to measure them.

O-Rings

Basic o-ring legend...
50544-0


Control
Legend | Switch w/o keycap
Up 14.95mm
Dn 10.95mm
Travel4mm

Thick PBT Cherry Profile Keycap
Legend | Switch w/ keycap | Switch w/ keycap + RED o-ring | Switch w/ keycap + BLACK o-ring
Up 18.15mm 18.2mm 18.45mm
Dn 14mm 14.7mm 15.3mm
Travel 4.15mm 3.5mm 3.15mm
Notes:
- The BLACK o-ring stops the keycap from going all the way on the switch (notice the Up values).

Stock Filco OEM Profile Keycap
Legend | Switch w/ keycap | Switch w/ keycap + RED o-ring | Switch w/ keycap + BLACK o-ring
Up 18.55mm 18.55mm 18.55mm
Dn 14.65mm 14.7mm 15mm
Travel 3.9mm 3.85mm 3.55mm

Conclusion:
- The keycap does NOT hit the switch when fully depressed on either Cherry or OEM keycaps.  I know the data looks like that might not be true, but keep the variance of at least +/- .1mm in mind.
- If you use Cherry profile keycaps and want to get an o-ring, get an o-ring that is about ~1.45mm, ~3.5mm of travel.
- If you use OEM profile keycaps and want to get an o-ring, get an o-ring that is about ~1.75mm, ~3.5mm of travel.
- When dealing with tenths of a millimeter it is very easy to have some values that do not make perfect sense.  I left them in because they illustrate that this is not absolutely perfect, but is the best I could do.

50367-1
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 July 2014, 22:23:31 by swill »

Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 13:36:11 »


Nice result!
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but I must have them.

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 15:41:11 »
I updated my previous post to include OEM and reformatted the data a bit...
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:21:48 by swill »

Offline Danule

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:33:47 »
I updated my previous post to include OEM and reformatted the data a bit...

Thanks for this! very interesting :)
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Offline dagdrivaren

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 03:58:02 »
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 January 2014, 04:01:08 by dagdrivaren »
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Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 10:06:52 »

I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

Sorry to not be clear on that. There is no standard. I have added an o-ring legend to my post.

I have a sample bag of about 10 different sized orings, so I can take a picture of the variance in size with a legend of what I measure them as (with my calliper).

I will do this when I get home from work.

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 21:25:14 »
Alright, I updated my previous post to include an oring legend to give more clarity as to size orings are being used in those tests...

Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 10:31:12 »
Great work, swill!  :thumb:

This is one of those references that should be stickied I reckon. Something like the MX spring force measurements post. Great for people deciding which orings to get.
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 11:11:39 »
I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremel



I used an imsto thick pbt cap.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 11:18:17 »
I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremel

Show Image


I used an imsto thick pbt cap.

suddenly

More
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 January 2014, 17:10:09 by jwaz »

Offline HPE1000

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 11:22:28 »
y u do dis?

Offline Puddsy

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 11:32:02 »
y u do dis?

It's just a cherry and a thumb, not a horrific injury.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 11:33:48 »

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 12:51:22 »

I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremel

Show Image


I used an imsto thick pbt cap.

That's a great image. Thanks. It shows how close everything gets when fully depressed with thick cherry profile.

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 13:00:42 »

Great work, swill!  :thumb:

This is one of those references that should be stickied I reckon. Something like the MX spring force measurements post. Great for people deciding which orings to get.

Ya, I struggled when buying orings. It was not until I had multiple sizes and different profile keycaps before I really understood what I was looking for. I happened to get real lucky right away (and imsto made a suggestion when I purchases my thick pbts).

A note. With tactile switches it is very obvious when the oring is too big. With linear I may actually like a slightly bigger oring. That is obviously preference, but worth pointing out that you may like different things on different switch types.

Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 13:18:36 »
I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremel

Show Image


I used an imsto thick pbt cap.

Wow! That's interesting. Didn't think it would be quite so close! Thanks for the info.
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Offline mooswa

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 16:41:18 »
 :confused:  If keycap does not hit the switch, what else could explain the difference in travel 4.15 - 3.9 = 0.25 ?

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 16:52:04 »
:confused:  If keycap does not hit the switch, what else could explain the difference in travel 4.15 - 3.9 = 0.25 ?

The fact that measuring these moving pieces is very difficult to be perfectly accurate and .25mm is within the margin for error.  Also notice that with the Cherry keycap, the switch depresses more than the switch depresses without any keycap.  How is that possible?  See what I mean?

Offline spiceBar

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 20:11:54 »
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.

I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.

In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.

I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 20:16:12 »

I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.

I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.

In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.

I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.

OEM profile I am assuming?

Offline spiceBar

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 12 January 2014, 01:14:14 »

I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.

I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.

In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.

I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.

OEM profile I am assuming?

Well... Huh... I think so. I'm using the standard keycaps on this Filco TKL.

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 12 January 2014, 08:50:44 »


I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.

I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.

In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.

I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.

OEM profile I am assuming?

Well... Huh... I think so. I'm using the standard keycaps on this Filco TKL.

Yes, those are oem profile.

Offline dagdrivaren

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 12 January 2014, 11:53:54 »
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.

I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.

In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.

I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.

That's interesting, thanks! So the 2mm thickness that they claim the o-rings to have, is actually wrong? Did you use a caliper when measuring? If you're right, it seems like the (red) o-rings that The Keyboard Company sell are the same as the red ones that WASD sell (thought they could still be made of a different type of rubber, I suppose). That's good to know.
Please do write a few words about the blue WASD o-rings when you get them, that would be appreciated.
I don't have any o-rings myself yet, but I do intend to get some. I'm just not sure wether to get the blue or red WASD ones (or something of the same sort elsewhere).
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 January 2014, 11:57:47 by dagdrivaren »
Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless (brown switches)

Offline spiceBar

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 12 January 2014, 12:16:35 »
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website, the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.

I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.

I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.

In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.

I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.

That's interesting, thanks! So the 2mm thickness that they claim the o-rings to have, is actually wrong? Did you use a caliper when measuring? If you're right, it seems like the (red) o-rings that The Keyboard Company sell are the same as the red ones that WASD sell (thought they could still be made of a different type of rubber, I suppose). That's good to know.
Please do write a few words about the blue WASD o-rings when you get them, that would be appreciated.
I don't have any o-rings myself yet, but I do intend to get some. I'm just not sure wether to get the blue or red WASD ones (or something of the same sort elsewhere).

I did not use a caliper, I don't have one.

I have used a ruler, and it's very clear that they are well under 2mm. To my eyes, exactly between 1 and 2mm. So yes, the numbers from the Keyboard Company are simply wrong.

Actually, these O-rings are almost always get wrong measurements from the companies that sell them. For example, WASD claims that their red ones have a 0.2mm reduction travel (=thickness) and the red ones have 0.4mm reduction travel. It does not make any sense. I think the red ones are around 1.5mm thick and the blue ones 2mm.
  http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0

So before purchasing any O-ring, it's a good idea to check here on Geekhack what others say about them.

Hint: if you order O-rings, purchase several types. An O-ring bag is generally less expensive that the shipping fees...

Offline dagdrivaren

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 12 January 2014, 15:08:19 »
I have read a few reviews and will do a little more reading before I buy any myself. And, I will consider getting at least two different sizes at the same time. That's probably not a bad idea. Thanks!
Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless (brown switches)

Offline swill

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 12 January 2014, 16:48:35 »
Some things to know when buying o-rings:

- Know what profile keycaps you will be putting these on.
-- Cherry profile takes smaller o-rings than OEM (most stock ABS caps).
- Check if you keycaps have crossbars.  It is my understanding that not having a crossbars (on a Y key for example) can change how much an o-ring changes travel.  I think some of the SP caps do not have crossbars, but that is just from memory.  If anyone notices that they do not have crossbars under their cap, post where you got it.  :)
- Read my post here to get an idea how kind of key travel / o-ring size / profile you are working with.
- Look at this image.  I made these measurements with a caliper.  If you can see images of the o-rings you are buying, you should be able to get an idea of how thick they are by comparing their proportions with the image bellow. 


Personal preferences:
I tend to like a little bit of key travel reduction.  Standard switch travel is about 4mm.  I tend to like about 3.5mm.  I am using relatively soft o-rings that I measured to be 1.45mm with Cherry caps, and I am pretty happy with this setup (with browns).  I tried an o-ring that I measured with a calliper as 1.75mm felt too big on Cherry caps, but felt nice on an OEM keycap.



Offline Oobly

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 01:56:35 »
I have some caps from Originative with no crossbars which I assume are made by SP (Konoha village symbol and white Portal set). They needed 3 of the thin (1.45mm) orings to have any effect.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline moonexe

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Re: What's all that about keycap profile and travel distance?
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 04:59:49 »
I have the portal set for my OS keys, I do wish they were cherry profile... :rolleyes:
Worth it, though. They look fantastic.

G80-3000, MX brown           -           Filco Majestouch 2 HAKUA TKL+TK, MX brown, JIS Layout