Are vintage keyboards better than modern ones?

[kolektador]

Are vintage keyboards better than modern ones in terms of build quality and durability?

I have never tried a vintage keyboard and I am afraid that buying one (which are often overpriced) would be a waste of money if I did not like it and would be harder for me to resell if I did not like it. I have tried(not owned) some modern mechanical keyboards (Razer, Steelseries, Corsair etc.. and other brands) and I don't know what is  worth investing my money on, a high end modern keyboard or a vintage keyboard? I would like for it to last my lifetime. What is the best course of action? I do some programming, some gaming (FPS, GW2, MOBA), some photo/video editting

[Sup]

Not really, this is kind of a broad question. However, since you are new to the keyboard scene and have only tried a few keyboards, I would suggest getting a hotswap keyboard. From there, you can determine which switch suits you best for comfortable and prolonged typing sessions by swapping switches until you find out what fits you the best.

[Leslieann]

Yes and no, depends on your wants and needs.

Older boards (that survived) were usually built to last but often had limited or odd layouts. These days the grease is old and the boards are often used and customization is difficult. Newer boards may not survive, but they're easier to customize and have tons and tons of options.

Do you really care if your new keyboard lasts 40 years or will you be bored of it in 3 or 4 years and replace it anyhow? If so, does it really matter if it lasts 10 years or 50?
On that same note, will that 20-40 year old board last another 30-40 years?

Get what makes you happy.

[Rhienfo]

Are vintage keyboards better than modern ones in terms of build quality and durability?

I have never tried a vintage keyboard and I am afraid that buying one (which are often overpriced) would be a waste of money if I did not like it and would be harder for me to resell if I did not like it. I have tried(not owned) some modern mechanical keyboards (Razer, Steelseries, Corsair etc.. and other brands) and I don't know what is  worth investing my money on, a high end modern keyboard or a vintage keyboard? I would like for it to last my lifetime. What is the best course of action? I do some programming, some gaming (FPS, GW2, MOBA), some photo/video editting

As everyone has said here, it depends on a variety of factors, but mostly it's on a case by case basis. Like things like old cheap rubber domes are going to have far less build quality than something like a model f for example. It's the same with modern keyboards, a custom with a full alu constrution with some dustproof waterproof switches is going to have a better lifespan than a plastic oem with some otemeu switches or something.

Of course none of this matters if you don't take care of the boards and minimize damage, both damage externally and internally with pcbs and such. Most Customs (And even some vintage stuff) can be refurbished or entirely rebuilt to fix some or all of the issues so that's also a consideration.

If you want to try something, you should try and go to a meetup, especially if you live near a large city, there should some vintage stuff to try there (I know there was some at the Australian meetups at least) then you can know what your preferences are when you are coming to make a purchase. But I know that's not for everyone, so as someone else said, try experimenting with different switches to know what you like and don't like. Hope this helps somewhat.

[chyros]

On average, when they were new, I would very much say so, yes.

Just remember that vintage boards have lived a whole life already by now .

[ItIsWritten]

On average, when they were new, I would very much say so, yes.

Just remember that vintage boards have lived a whole life already by now .

Yes, but don't forget those are the boards that survived, and the good ones usually have had favorable situations.

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[chyros]

On average, when they were new, I would very much say so, yes.

Just remember that vintage boards have lived a whole life already by now .

Yes, but don't forget those are the boards that survived, and the good ones usually have had favorable situations.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

Yeah that's kind of what I mean.

[ItIsWritten]

I think the difference is that the further back you go, the more expensive the boards were. So you can't compare an IBM board from the early 80s with a $15 dollar board you get free with your PC. But if you compare them with enthousiast boards, modern boards are better in a lot of ways. We don't know yet how long they will last, but a lot of them are easier to service than the old boards.

[Zobeid Zuma]

My opinion. . .  The higher end of today's keyboards have gotten up into the same ballpark with the vintage keyboards that we all venerate.  I could argue they're better, or at least better suited to today's world and computering environment.

I have two vintage IBM Model F keyboards, a well-preserved XT and AT, and also a new production Model F77.  The sound and feel of the XT is very satisfying for a minute or two, but it soon becomes a "harsh" typing experience.  I don't think I can blame age, since the F77 is nearly identical in that respect.  The AT has the best sound-and-feel, but its key layout is a nuisance.  In terms of layout, the XT is the worst of the three, the F77 the best.

This week I got my hands on a Keychron Q14 Pro.  Keychron have been running a hot streak lately, cranking out an almost bewildering catalog of different models and layouts.  I got the "barebones" kit, slapped on a batch of Gateron Baby Kangaroo tactile switches, and GMK Pulse keycap set.  It sounds and feels fantastic to type on.  The layout is an expanded Alice (or properly "Arisu") variant with a full numeric keypad on the left side where it belongs.  (Oddly, and unfortunately, it's a standard right-handed keypad layout.)  The only reason vintage keyboards have their number pads on the right is because they were all designed before a mouse was in widespread use!

So. . .

• milled aluminum case with gaskets
• semi-ergonomic design (feels less cramped)
• split spacebar and center Fn key
• number pad on the left
• encoder knob
• hot swap switch sockets
• VIA programmable
• wired or wireless operation

If any of these are features you care about, it's hard for a vintage keyboard to compete.  Then the only argument remaining is: "They just don't make switches like they used to." …or maybe… "They don't make keycaps like they used to."

But we've got such an explosion of switches on the market now, it's hard to believe you can't find something good.  The keycap situation is a bit more chaotic, with everyone trying to roll out their own novelty profile while maybe cutting corners on quality.  (I've heard that Keychron's own in-house keycaps tend to break!)  But there's also good stuff like NicePBT, old reliable SP/PMK, and there's always GMK.

[zslane]

The one bit of vintage kit we don't have today that I sorely wish we did was a modern beam spring switch. But other than that, I agree with the sentiment that most high-end modern keyboards will outperform anything from the past. Of course, full size keyboards are a dying form factor in the boutique mechanical keyboard market, so the "good old days" have a major advantage there (I'm a full-size keyboard stalwart, you could say). But by and large, I would choose to type on just about any of my modern keyboards over any of the keyboards I've had in the past, with the possible exception of the Apple AEK-II I had hooked up to my beloved Mac IIci back in the early 1990s. That keyboard was exceptional, even by today's standards, and it was full-size!

[Rob27shred]

As everyone else has said, the answer is a big fat depends.... Mostly it depends on you TBH though. IMO older switches such as ALPS SKCM/SKCL, beamspring, buckling spring (capacitive & membrane), etc. are lightyears better than even the best of the best new MX style switches. Although some of the boards they come in are great & some are trash. Then there is the condition of the older KB you're looking at. So there is the rabbit hole of older boards themselves. On top of that you can harvest some of the older switch types & put them in a modern custom board giving yourself the best of both worlds. None of it comes easy anymore though. Most people now know older mechanical keyboards are worth money to enthusiasts so the pricing of vintage boards & parts has skyrocketed. Also they are getting tougher to find by the day. Then if you go the custom board with older switches it can be tough as there needs to be a PCB/plate available that accepts vintage switches for whatever custom board you're looking at, plus cap options are very limited. Overall if you just want something that works & feels decent out of the box modern all the way. Vintage boards & parts are almost always projects that need restored or harvested, putting them firmly into the enthusiast space.

[Tribal]

I think the sweet spot is modernized versions of the classics, especially compact form factor, wireless connections, better key layout, and quieter switches.  For example:
IBM Model M —> Unicomp New Model M and Mini M
IBM Model F —> Ellipse’s New Model F series
Apple AEK/AEK2 —> Matias Pro series
Topre Realforce R1 —> Topre Realforce R3HD

I think it’s like Classical music: you’re aware of the best designs from the past because they’ve survived, usually because of an intrinsic strength.  New designs haven’t passed that test yet and so it’s harder to know which are actually good and which are just hype.

[Findecanor]

There has always been bad keyboards. Cheaper computers back in the '80s came with cheaper keyboards.
But it hasn't always been intentionally: I once got a keyboard made with vintage Cherry switches (not MX, a predecessor to MX) that had missing keys and the remaining about to fall apart: The plastic in the switches had just deteriorated over time, but it was otherwise very well built.
And I have also acquired a couple vintage keyboards that had literally been excavated out of a landfill, and were not in good condition.

Alps SKCM/SKCL switches are sensitive to dust and grime in ways that Cherry MX and IBM Model M are not.
IBM Model M2 can come with a bad controller board, even new-in-box: The capacitors could dry out if the keyboard is left not powered on for too long, and the plastic is brittle so replacing those capacitors may require breaking a few plastic tabs that hold the case together (and I have not heard of anyone bolt-modding a M2...)
Other collectors have more stories, I'm sure.

[Rhienfo]

I have also acquired a couple vintage keyboards that had literally been excavated out of a landfill, and were not in good condition.

Alps SKCM/SKCL switches are sensitive to dust and grime in ways that Cherry MX and IBM Model M are not.

Yeah this is true, it's becoming much harder to find good quality vintage boards, especially NOS if you are looking for that.

Pingmasters used to be cheap because there were a lot of NOS boards flying around, but that well has dried up and now they are lot more pricey.

I also have felt what bad alps feel like and while I'm not the biggest fan of alps in general, there is a huge disparity between good quality and bad one so you need to look harder to find good ones or restore them to a useable level.

[HungerMechanic]

A lot of true things said in this thread, so I'm not going to duplicate them. You can get modern keyboards that are high-quality. Comparable with the "greats" of the past.

The one thing that's missing [besides full-size custom options] are ALPS switches. You can get repro Model M, Model F, even maybe beamspring soon. And that's great.

But you can't order a modern Orange ALPS keyboard, or anything like that. There are Zeal Clickiez, but it's not exactly the same. So if we could just get SKCM ALPS, then we could have nearly everything. Modern layouts offer a lot of choice. It's just that one category of switches that's missing from the lineups.

[mohawk1367]

This is a very subjective question my friend! It really depends on what you're using them for in my opinion. For gaming and just pure technological advantage and features, obviously modern keyboards are leagues above vintage ones. For example, I use a Wooting 60HE (modern) for gaming. It has near instant input speed and plenty of features that give you the advantage. The RGB customizability is awesome too. However, at work and for typing I prefer my Apple M0110A (vintage) by far. I generally prefer vintage boards for typing just because they have a certain charm to them, much more variety in terms of switches, and I prefer the look. I would never use the M0110A for gaming, because its much slower and the switches are too heavy for me to game on personally. It's still my favorite board.

Keep in mind that you have to put in a lot of extra work to get vintage boards to work correctly with modern computers, and many of them will be dirty, rusted, missing keycaps etc. IMO, it's worth the extra work but it may not be for everyone.

[yiuoterw]

I think it really depends on which vintage to modern comparisons you are making. In my experience, higher end vintage keyboard plastic is better and more durable than modern plastic, but I know this is not always the case.

[Tribal]

I think it really depends on which vintage to modern comparisons you are making. In my experience, higher end vintage keyboard plastic is better and more durable than modern plastic, but I know this is not always the case.

Agreed.  Sometimes it’s the keycaps.

[mohawk1367]

I think it really depends on which vintage to modern comparisons you are making. In my experience, higher end vintage keyboard plastic is better and more durable than modern plastic, but I know this is not always the case.

Agreed.  Sometimes it’s the keycaps.

just look at caps from any honeywell hall effect board... they really dont make em like they used to