How to purchase the right Alps board

[fohat.digs]

White Alps click and black Alps do not. There is a world of difference, and if you like click then the black ones will not appeal to you, even if you have a smooth nice specimen.

I suspect that you will like the white switches, and if you are moderately competent with a soldering iron, you could transplant the white switches into the Dell.

It is unfortunate that the Dell is clunky and old-fashioned looking (says the old man who uses IBM Model Fs) in a not-so-good way, because it really is a superior and well-made keyboard.

[terrpn]

have yet to grab a bad apple alps board in any switch

[Rena]

I am a fan of the click on the whites. They feel similar to MX blues in a way but the bump is a lot more sharp on the alps, I think is the way to put it.

On this dell board not only are they heavier but the bump feels very odd, almost as if it isn't even there. I guess this one I got is bad. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do with it short of selling it. You did mention soldering the switches into this board but I'm not so sure I'm ready to do that at this point.

And I'm still looking for a cheap M0115, the salmon or orange alps look nice.

[fohat.digs]

have yet to grab a bad apple alps board in any switch

I have had a least half a dozen each of AEK and AEK2. All but one of my AEK2s were good, but all but 1 of my AEKs were bad.

Bad (definition): at least one dead switch, often 3-5.

And most of them had horribly yellowed cases and spacebars.

Still, they are very well-made and sturdy. Too bad the great PBT keys have silly font in the wrong place.

[remdell]

I am a fan of the click on the whites. They feel similar to MX blues in a way but the bump is a lot more sharp on the alps, I think is the way to put it.

On this dell board not only are they heavier but the bump feels very odd, almost as if it isn't even there. I guess this one I got is bad. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do with it short of selling it. You did mention soldering the switches into this board but I'm not so sure I'm ready to do that at this point.

And I'm still looking for a cheap M0115, the salmon or orange alps look nice.

White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard.  On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened.  On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS.  Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.

The M0115 is great with either orange or salmon ALPs, but you'd have better luck finding them on a M0116.  Both are tactile and have a similar force to MX Blacks (on the surface of the key).

[terrpn]

I am a fan of the click on the whites. They feel similar to MX blues in a way but the bump is a lot more sharp on the alps, I think is the way to put it.

On this dell board not only are they heavier but the bump feels very odd, almost as if it isn't even there. I guess this one I got is bad. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do with it short of selling it. You did mention soldering the switches into this board but I'm not so sure I'm ready to do that at this point.

And I'm still looking for a cheap M0115, the salmon or orange alps look nice.

White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard.  On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened.  On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS.  Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.

The M0115 is great with either orange or salmon ALPs, but you'd have better luck finding them on a M0116.  Both are tactile and have a similar force to MX Blacks (on the surface of the key).

agree............my northgate with whites is softer than my focus, but i do like them both

i do tend to insulate the bottom side of my boards given the chance which seems to reduce any ping

the old lite-on boards that had whites were pretty nice, but hard to find one in decent shape

i guess i did good in finding my aek/aek2's........it sounds like

some of the cases and space bars can be horribly yellowed

[Daniel Beardsmore]

White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard.  On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened.  On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS.  Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.

I doubt any two of those use the same switch.

The MacAlly MK96 that I've seen uses Alps.tw Type OA2 switches, which seem to be an older variant of the Himake AK-CN2 Alps clone:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/mac_kb_wiz_s_alps.html

The OA2 switches I've got are definitely on the stiff side. Nowhere near as bad as those in my MiniTouch, but not great:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_OA2
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hua-Jie_AK_series

The Stellar appears to use simplified Alps switches, from the photos I've found. Alps SKBM White isn't bad, but it's not as good as complicated Alps.

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73068
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series

PS it's "Alps", as in the mountain range. "ALPs" is like "EPSOn" or "SHARp". The company is Alps Electric Co., Ltd. of Japan.

[remdell]

White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard.  On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened.  On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS.  Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.

I doubt any two of those use the same switch.

The MacAlly MK96 that I've seen uses Alps.tw Type OA2 switches, which seem to be an older variant of the Himake AK-CN2 Alps clone:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/mac_kb_wiz_s_alps.html

The OA2 switches I've got are definitely on the stiff side. Nowhere near as bad as those in my MiniTouch, but not great:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_OA2
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hua-Jie_AK_series

The Stellar appears to use simplified Alps switches, from the photos I've found. Alps SKBM White isn't bad, but it's not as good as complicated Alps.

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73068
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series

PS it's "Alps", as in the mountain range. "ALPs" is like "EPSOn" or "SHARp". The company is Alps Electric Co., Ltd. of Japan.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me.  I forgot to mention that the white Alps switch can vary, so my examples are kind of bad in the respect to keyboards of the same white Alps complicated switch.    However, even when boards have the same complicated white Alps switches, the feel of them could be different from keyboard to keyboard.  As terrpn mentioned, his Omnikey is softer than his Focus.  I assume he is dealing with Alps white complicated switches on both boards.  Also, I've noticed that general condition and age may also affect the switch feel of the keyboards of the same switch and board.  I know that some of the Omnikeys (of the same model and switch) I have still feel different from one another no matter how much I cleaned them up.  I should probably get an Omnikey that is in very good condition to compare them with, but I've been getting Omnikeys that have odd and varied top heaviness across the board (some being less top heavy than others).  I also got a gold label Omnikey with blue Alps switches, but it was in pretty bad condition.  The top heaviness of that keyboard was also varied.  My Leading Edge DC 2014 in fairly good condition, on the other hand, was smooth across the whole board and had uniform top heaviness.  I probably should try contact cleaning and lubing these varied top-heavy boards, but I don't have the tools necessary for that.

Also, for those who have orange Alps boards, have you guys noticed that some orange switches have this pseudo-click after bottoming out?  Clickey from Deskthority described it as:

The orange ALPS can develop something that seems like clickiness but is actually not. The tactile metal gets pulled on the upstroke of the switch and pops back and forth to make a click that is unique (not like white alps). It is not what I would call true click, as it only happens on the upstroke and is due to damage/misformation of the switch and not meant to exist in that state

I wish one of my Apple M0116 have this pseudo-click on every single switch.  I've had a few switches with this feature that were are much more prominent than others with the feature.

PS: Initially, I looked at the Alps logo to spell out the Alps name.  After entering that on my tablet/phone, I've been too lazy to take it off autocorrect.

[jacobolus]

However, even when boards have the same complicated white Alps switches, the feel of them could be different from keyboard to keyboard.  As terrpn mentioned, his Omnikey is softer than his Focus.  I assume he is dealing with Alps white complicated switches on both boards.  Also, I've noticed that general condition and age may also affect the switch feel of the keyboards of the same switch and board.  I know that some of the Omnikeys (of the same model and switch) I have still feel different from one another no matter how much I cleaned them up.

The amount/nature of the click has to do with the precise shape of the click leaf. On switches which are used a lot (or more realistically on switches which are stored for a long period of time with keys depressed) the back of the click leaf gets bent into a bit of a curve, and the leaf angle is maybe reduced too. I should try taking some macro pictures of "good" and "bad" complicated white switches to show the difference.

Anyway, if you're careful, you can bend the click leaf back in the direction of its original shape, and thereby increase the click. Be careful, if you bend it too much, you'll end up with a click on both the way down and the way up.

[interwebhobo]

So I've had my first experience with an Alps board with the AEK M0115 with orange Alps. I have to say the experience of typing is truly different compared to Cherry's. I have a random question about them, though. I know they are rated (at least on the AEK) for 10-15m presses... The board I got seems in incredibly good condition (practically no yellowing, kb was incredibly clean, etc) yet when plugged into my PC (windows ofc) the "=" button on the keypad section does not work. Do you think this is a result of the switch going bad (old board but good condition, no other problems) or how it isn't standard to have an "=" key on the number pad?

[fohat.digs]

Windows does not recognize an "=" key. I am not even sure that you can re-map it.

[False_Dmitry_II]

That's right, just checked. With a iMate, it flashes when that key is hit, but nothing happens at all windows side. Without even a random numbered/unknown key there's no way to change it to something else.

[jacobolus]

If you make your own converter (e.g. using Hasu’s tmk_keyboard firmware, and a Teensy 2.0), then you can output whatever you want over USB.

a) I wonder what code it sends when you plug a recent extended-layout USB Apple keyboard into a PC and press the numpad = sign. Do those work as expected with a PC?

b) I wonder what code the iMate is sending when it gets an ADB numpad = pressed as input.

[False_Dmitry_II]

You can also replace the controller, but I think that's outside the scope of the original question.

Since KP = seems to be only mac, I'd imagine both would send the same code a mac would expect, but that if modern ones work on pc's it's because they can tell it's talking to a pc and instead send a numrow=.

[jacobolus]

Since KP = seems to be only mac, I'd imagine both would send the same code a mac would expect, but that if modern ones work on pc's it's because they can tell it's talking to a pc and instead send a numrow=.

Well that’s why I’m curious whether the modern ones do work. If so, then I’d say that’s a bug in the iMate (a relatively minor bug, since the primary iMate audience is Mac users, but still).

[interwebhobo]

Since KP = seems to be only mac, I'd imagine both would send the same code a mac would expect, but that if modern ones work on pc's it's because they can tell it's talking to a pc and instead send a numrow=.

Well that’s why I’m curious whether the modern ones do work. If so, then I’d say that’s a bug in the iMate (a relatively minor bug, since the primary iMate audience is Mac users, but still).

Yeah I'm curious too. When I got this board I was surprised at how many things they did right or better than my nice new Filco, and I thought the "=" on the kp is one that also made a lot of sense. (Also a huge fan of the stabilizers and how they are set on the key, as well as the ingenuity that went into the locking CapsLock key). Sadly I don't have the knowledge/ability to mess around and try to get it to work.

[False_Dmitry_II]

You may find you prefer vintage stuff. They quite literally don't make them like they used to. That one in particular may have been more expensive at the time to get than a filco today, especially if you consider inflation.

[fohat.digs]

I stripped the orange Alps from a dead Apple board and put them into a Dell AT101 and it is transformed into a truly great board.

[False_Dmitry_II]

I stripped the orange Alps from a dead Apple board and put them into a Dell AT101 and it is transformed into a truly great board.

I'd consider doing that, but the one I have has considerable shine. Most keys could I suppose be replaced with apple, but the spacebar is also shined and is already black, because it's a "black" version.

In fact, the possibility of using it as a destination for some yet to be determined switches is the only reason I even still have it.