Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:12:01
Updated - May 15, 2019
Here are some updated renders (we are still working on a couple things, such as some of legend thickness). We are using Gotham Rounded as the font. Slightly modified to make sure everything can be injection molded. Here is a comparison of different profiles home row - SA, KAT, Cherry. https://imgur.com/a/jfVlPk5
This render is our idea of a full kit (including some duplicate keycaps).
(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
Side profile.
(https://i.imgur.com/rICp5vO.png)
Next Steps
* Finalize Kit - Completed
* Order Sample Keycaps - Currently in process
* Get complete Accurate Quote from my manufacturer
* Get 2 keycaps made - "A" and "Caps Lock" to make sure that my manu can do the quality and detail that this project needs.
Rough Timeline
* End of March, settle on final kit - Done
* End of April, receive finalized quote for tooling - Will get finalized quote after sample keycaps
* End of May, start on A and Caps Lock Samples - Ordered
* End of 2019, start on NovelPro
Old/Outdated
More
New Profile Keycap IC
Okay long story short - I have the opportunity to create a new profile and be able to pay for the tooling. So I am seeking the community's input on this set.
Some details
* These keycaps will be made in house by me (not directly by me all the time, but I am working on a couple business partners).
* Yes, I am basically attempting to make a small keycap factory.
* These will be thick doubleshot ABS. PBT doubleshot is too difficult to get right, and dyesub is too restrictive.
* I don't want this set to mimic or even be remotely close to the The Van's new profile - HuB. That is their project and I do not want to step on toes.
Some FAQs
Do you know how much this will cost?!?
* Yes, like I said above, I have the opportunity to get this going.
Do you know how difficult tooling would be to get made?!?
* Yes, I will seek out a mold making company and make sure that we get the tolerances correct
What compatibility are you looking to have?
* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
What is your timeline?
* This is the very early parts of this project. I would like to have a profile picked out within 1-2 months. After the profile is picked I would have these 3D printed in a very high quality and get some feedback. If all goes well, we move on to the tooling. I would love to have some actual samples in 8-10 months time (thats a pretty optimistic timeline).
What is your pricing?
* I dont have this figured out yet. The goal is to have a broad compatibility kit for under $100. That is the goal.
IC Part
Form here - https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2 (https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2) - Form Closed
February 25, 2018 Update
First IC form is closed.
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
Okay long story short - I have the opportunity to create a new profile and be able to pay for the tooling. So I am seeking the community's input on this set.
Some details
* These keycaps will be made in house by me (not directly by me all the time, but I am working on a couple business partners).
* Yes, I am basically attempting to make a small keycap factory.
* These will be thick doubleshot ABS. PBT doubleshot is too difficult to get right, and dyesub is too restrictive.
* I don't want this set to mimic or even be remotely close to the The Van's new profile - HuB. That is their project and I do not want to step on toes.
Some FAQs
Do you know how much this will cost?!?
* Yes, like I said above, I have the opportunity to get this going.
Do you know how difficult tooling would be to get made?!?
* Yes, I will seek out a mold making company and make sure that we get the tolerances correct
What compatibility are you looking to have?
* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
What is your timeline?
* This is the very early parts of this project. I would like to have a profile picked out within 1-2 months. After the profile is picked I would have these 3D printed in a very high quality and get some feedback. If all goes well, we move on to the tooling. I would love to have some actual samples in 8-10 months time (thats a pretty optimistic timeline).
What is your pricing?
* I dont have this figured out yet. The goal is to have a broad compatibility kit for under $100. That is the goal.
IC Part
Form here - https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2 (https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2) - Form Closed
February 25, 2018 Update
First IC form is closed.
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
Post by: Visionaire on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:16:02
Post by: Jhors2 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:17:57
2 x 3u spacebar for people who want to split space the newer boards that support that instead of the old 2.75u shift style setup.
I'd also encourage you very strongly to be incredibly particular about the legends. JTK doubleshot level is just not going to cut it for me.
Good luck!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:18:01
As long as it is spherical and sculptured, I will buy a set.
EDIT: I also second the 1800 compatibility.
Post by: Petch on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:19:06
Post by: Oblotzky on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:22:15
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:27:15
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Good point.
What about medium height sculpted spherical? That's an itch (a niche, hah!) that no one seems to scratch. Glossy smooth!
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:31:09
Filled out the IC. I have faith in you Mike! You always deliver a product I like. I'd just ask that 1800/75% compatibility is there as I use both of those layouts quite a bit.
2 x 3u spacebar for people who want to split space the newer boards that support that instead of the old 2.75u shift style setup.
I'd also encourage you very strongly to be incredibly particular about the legends. JTK doubleshot level is just not going to cut it for me.
Good luck!
Thank you! I am going to be very very picky with my tooling manufacturer. They have to be able to provide the tolerances.
Very exciting to see, I am interested!
I am super excited about this, too :)
Really awesome, can't wait for this to become a reality!!! I know how much work and money will have to go into making this, and hope it all works out for you.
As long as it is spherical and sculptured, I will buy a set.
EDIT: I also second the 1800 compatibility.
I appreciate that!
Interested but we have a lot of ABS right now, I'd prefer some quality PBT
PBT is just a really hard plastic to work with in doubleshot. And I feel that dyesub is too restrictive in color choices.
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:33:52
Good point.
What about medium height sculpted spherical? That's an itch (a niche, hah!) that no one seems to scratch. Glossy smooth!
This is exactly what I want, EDRUG is kinda that profile, but is low quality in comparison to what I expect out of NK.
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
This sounds perfect!!!
Post by: Hokabuki on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:39:50
Post by: Atredl on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:41:17
MX style Topre HiPro. :)Now this is something I could get behind.
Post by: p_blaze on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:43:46
New Profile Keycap IC
Okay long story short - I have the opportunity to create a new profile and be able to pay for the tooling. So I am seeking the community's input on this set.
Some details
* These keycaps will be made in house by me (not directly by me all the time, but I am working on a couple business partners).
* Yes, I am basically attempting to make a small keycap factory.
* These will be thick doubleshot ABS. PBT doubleshot is too difficult to get right, and dyesub is too restrictive.
* I don't want this set to mimic or even be remotely close to the The Van's new profile - HuB. That is their project and I do not want to step on toes.
Some FAQs
Do you know how much this will cost?!?
* Yes, like I said above, I have the opportunity to get this going.
Do you know how difficult tooling would be to get made?!?
* Yes, I will seek out a mold making company and make sure that we get the tolerances correct
What compatibility are you looking to have?
* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
What is your timeline?
* This is the very early parts of this project. I would like to have a profile picked out within 1-2 months. After the profile is picked I would have these 3D printed in a very high quality and get some feedback. If all goes well, we move on to the tooling. I would love to have some actual samples in 8-10 months time (thats a pretty optimistic timeline).
What is your pricing?
* I dont have this figured out yet. The goal is to have a broad compatibility kit for under $100. That is the goal.
IC Part
Form here - https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2 (https://goo.gl/forms/eBF3XdRSNz6vifoG2)
* Please give me some good feedback. I want this set to be a set that caters to the community. I wont be able to please everyone, but I will take in consideration
* Please also know that I understand what this entails. I have done my research, and know the importance of a good quality keycap.
* This is probably the biggest project that I have taken on for NovelKeys. It is very very important to me.
I'm thinking something between a high profile and oem/cherry profile. I feel that high profile doesn't look great on everything, but low profile is not the nicest to type on.
Post by: wetnwylde on Thu, 22 February 2018, 19:06:11
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 22 February 2018, 19:08:15
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
Down for that.
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 22 February 2018, 19:56:12
Yea, I definitely dont want to do an exact clone of something, but I do want to have a profile that agrees with the community. My personal preference is a MX style Topre HiPro. :)
Down for that.
Yea. Maybe just a little bit shorter, but something to really cup the fingers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Parva Ovis on Thu, 22 February 2018, 23:33:11
- High profile
- Spherical
- Uniform: SA R3, Devlin K
- Sculpted: SA, Maxkey, MT3
- Cyclindrical
- Uniform
- Sculpted
- Flat
- Mid profile
- Spherical
- Uniform: XDA
- Sculpted: DSS, HuB (both unreleased), EDRUG
- Flat:
- Cyclindrical
- Uniform
- Sculpted: Cherry, OEM, Cubic, SP DCS
- Flat
- Low profile
- Spherical
- Uniform: DSA, Devlin Q
- Sculpted
- Cyclindrical
- Uniform
- Sculpted
- Flat: G20
It's my two cents that uniform cylindrical is the best way to go, but I'd be down for any of the other non-flat unfilled categories. Centered legends and icon mods would be the icing on the cake.
Post by: midnight2903 on Fri, 23 February 2018, 01:41:15
Post by: jebbra on Fri, 23 February 2018, 02:51:05
Post by: HotRoderX on Fri, 23 February 2018, 02:54:11
Post by: Lepidus on Fri, 23 February 2018, 05:59:53
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 23 February 2018, 06:36:50
Is DSA really lower than cherry? I Always got the impression that cherry was lower, or at least most of the rows. Is it feasible to do a sculpted cylindrical keyset with a lower profile than cherry?
I can see that. Depends on what rows you are looking at. I guess a better in between would be the MT3 dev/tty set.
Post by: FailureToLoad on Fri, 23 February 2018, 06:57:13
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
Good point.
What about medium height sculpted spherical? That's an itch (a niche, hah!) that no one seems to scratch. Glossy smooth!
Yes please. OEM-ish height + spherical top is a set I've wanted for a long time. After spending entirely too much on different keycap sets, I can also say I'm a big fan of SA style thick and smooth ABS.
Post by: vewy_nice on Fri, 23 February 2018, 07:09:03
And also, legends on the bottom left would set it apart from the crowd. Really cool to see so many different ideas!
Post by: Parva Ovis on Fri, 23 February 2018, 10:20:54
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 23 February 2018, 10:38:29
Regardless of the ultimate profile that is chosen, it would be great if there were convex spacebars for the various split spacebar sizes: 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.75u, etc.
Hear, hear!
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 23 February 2018, 10:38:51
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
Post by: MatchstickMan on Fri, 23 February 2018, 12:06:08
Regardless of the ultimate profile that is chosen, it would be great if there were convex spacebars for the various split spacebar sizes: 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.75u, etc.
And a 3u option may be great for a lot of custom builds that I've seen recently.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Fri, 23 February 2018, 12:39:52
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 23 February 2018, 13:24:45
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
Yea, let me keep getting some feedback, but I will definitely want to talk about it with you.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 23 February 2018, 15:16:57
Here is a sample render of an R2 1U triple.
EDIT: Just realized the legend is upside down. Oh well, you get the point ;D
Post by: a_ak57 on Fri, 23 February 2018, 21:26:58
Post by: wetnwylde on Fri, 23 February 2018, 21:46:57
A mid-height version of Hi-Pro or MT3 would be neat I think. I'm aware there are low/medium sculpted spherical profiles popping around now like HuB and EDRUG, but they don't seem to be as "cuppy" as Hi-Pro or MT3.MT3 is superelliptical and has a dish depth of 1.1mm, as opposed to .7mm for most spherical caps (SA, DSA, clones). Not that you can't make a low profile spherical set just as deep as MT3, but they will never be as cuppy because the sides will still be too low to make contact with anything short of shrek fingers.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 24 February 2018, 08:49:51
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PIzGgPp.png)
Here is a sample render of an R2 1U triple.
EDIT: Just realized the legend is upside down. Oh well, you get the point ;D
I like that. PM'ing. Not sure I am actually able to PM you. My sent messages arent going through. Anyways, shoot me an email - mike@novelkeys.xyz I would love to talk to you more about this.
Post by: a_ak57 on Sat, 24 February 2018, 15:36:46
A mid-height version of Hi-Pro or MT3 would be neat I think. I'm aware there are low/medium sculpted spherical profiles popping around now like HuB and EDRUG, but they don't seem to be as "cuppy" as Hi-Pro or MT3.MT3 is superelliptical and has a dish depth of 1.1mm, as opposed to .7mm for most spherical caps (SA, DSA, clones). Not that you can't make a low profile spherical set just as deep as MT3, but they will never be as cuppy because the sides will still be too low to make contact with anything short of shrek fingers.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Yeah maybe I shouldn't have mentioned MT3, but I think Hi-Pro could be done on a medium height. I guess what I'm kind of getting at is something like a full set of deep dish keycaps. But I'm not sure how many people besides me would actually enjoy that.
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 25 February 2018, 08:16:52
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
Post by: midnight2903 on Sun, 25 February 2018, 08:18:59
First IC form is closed.
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
Centered large font, NotLikeThis
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 25 February 2018, 08:48:31
Centered large font, NotLikeThis
The people have spoken!
I am actually in works with SpectreiiI and his profile. It is very similar to what I had originally wanted, and it seems to line up with what the community wants as well.
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 25 February 2018, 09:15:13
First IC form is closed.
Results
- mid height
- sculpted
- spherical
- centered large font
- icon mods
- very close between textured and matte finish
- scooped homing
With HUB coming, idk if you should really follow these advices.
I don't remember exactly what was in the form, but was the "large area" throwed away?
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 25 February 2018, 09:20:47
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
I like this one, however i would change the last 2 rows, the difference in height (which is present on cherry) doesn't make any sense on current angles of modern keyboards imho.
(https://i.imgur.com/WippovA.png)
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 25 February 2018, 09:39:18
With HUB coming, idk if you should really follow these advices.
I don't remember exactly what was in the form, but was the "large area" throwed away?
I think HuB and the profile that I am looking at are definitely different enough to coexist. And there are things that I may not do exactly as the community has voted. I’m actually leaning towards text mods vs icon.
I’m not sure what you mean by large area? The form never changed, so I think I got all the answers down.
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 25 February 2018, 09:44:46
With HUB coming, idk if you should really follow these advices.
I don't remember exactly what was in the form, but was the "large area" throwed away?
I think HuB and the profile that I am looking at are definitely different enough to coexist. And there are things that I may not do exactly as the community has voted. I’m actually leaning towards text mods vs icon.
I’m not sure what you mean by large area? The form never changed, so I think I got all the answers down.
There wasn't like a question about "large surface area" vs Cherry-like (e.g. small surface)?
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 25 February 2018, 10:01:01
There wasn't like a question about "large surface area" vs Cherry-like (e.g. small surface)?
There was not.
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 25 February 2018, 10:04:35
There wasn't like a question about "large surface area" vs Cherry-like (e.g. small surface)?
There was not.
Ok i drink too much :-X
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 25 February 2018, 14:52:08
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 25 February 2018, 14:56:18
Polls are great, but design by committee is usually counterproductive. You have to be a little like Steve Jobs and give the people what they don’t yet know that they want. I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions and go with them, because you know what works, even if it goes against popular opinion.
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
design by vote almost always ends with nobody happy
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 25 February 2018, 15:05:53
Polls are great, but design by committee is usually counterproductive. You have to be a little like Steve Jobs and give the people what they don’t yet know that they want. I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions and go with them, because you know what works, even if it goes against popular opinion.
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
design by vote almost always ends with nobody happy
Polls are great, but design by committee is usually counterproductive. You have to be a little like Steve Jobs and give the people what they don’t yet know that they want. I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions and go with them, because you know what works, even if it goes against popular opinion.
Really looking forward to whatever you come up with!
Yea its definitely not going to be just want the community wants, but I did want to have a baseline to go off. Things will hopefully start moving quick. I have lots of meetings set up, and am really excited to see what happens.
Post by: dr_derivative on Sun, 25 February 2018, 16:02:27
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
I like this one, however i would change the last 2 rows, the difference in height (which is present on cherry) doesn't make any sense on current angles of modern keyboards imho.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WippovA.png)
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.
(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
Post by: cijanzen on Sun, 25 February 2018, 16:55:01
Post by: Parva Ovis on Sun, 25 February 2018, 17:13:08
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 25 February 2018, 17:49:14
My biggest issue with the poll as it was is that a combination of the most popular aspects isn't necessarily the most popular combination, But, the results as they are seem like a good combination to go with, and I'm definitely interested in it, even though I voted for uniform cylindrical. :)
I think the good news with this profile I’m working on is that down the road there will be a possibility of making a uniform profile.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 25 February 2018, 18:07:26
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.That is an astute observation. The step on this profile is in fact consistent (with exception to the first row). All steps are simply justified to the base angle of the board, as opposed to each row being justified according to the difference in angle from the previous row. Thanks for the feedback.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
Post by: Shados on Mon, 26 February 2018, 00:23:59
Post by: dr_derivative on Mon, 26 February 2018, 06:06:18
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.That is an astute observation. The step on this profile is in fact consistent (with exception to the first row). All steps are simply justified to the base angle of the board, as opposed to each row being justified according to the difference in angle from the previous row. Thanks for the feedback.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).
(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)
Post by: sevenseacat on Mon, 26 February 2018, 23:00:03
* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
*cries in Colemak
Post by: wetnwylde on Mon, 26 February 2018, 23:10:22
So my mom was a system's analyst, and she specifically instructed me to learn qwerty because "if you learn another layout, you will look like an idiot when you have to use someone else's terminal". Little did she know...* I am looking to have a good sized compatibility kit with the exceptions of really obscure - such as colemak, dvorak, and nordic. At least to start off that is.
*cries in Colemak
Long story short, everything in me screams to take advantage of the more efficient layout, but I'm sure glad I listened because keebs.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Post by: SpectreiiI on Thu, 01 March 2018, 18:58:59
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 01 March 2018, 19:05:09
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
Beautiful
Post by: dr_derivative on Thu, 01 March 2018, 19:18:04
Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
That looks amazing :p
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 02 March 2018, 19:18:18
Eh, I can spot all sorts of issues lol. Here is another (https://i.imgur.com/e7XiJ7E.png)Ah, I hadn't realised it was intentional. MT3 profile has a somewhat similar sculpt, although yours looks better IMO.
I think many sculpted profiles are modelled after the keycaps on the Model F/M which have a curved plate and therefore inherently have a consistent step size.
I have no idea if your sculpt is better/worse in terms of ergonomics or typing feel, it just looks a bit off (to me anyway).Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set/AI7B3442_copy_20180221164446.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&dpr=1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/PvXokpb.png)
Mod row still is intentionally out of step, and function row is a half step, but everything else is dead nuts.
That looks amazing :p
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 02 March 2018, 21:36:35
I have way too many meetings scheduled, but things are looking great!
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Post by: Cods on Sat, 03 March 2018, 06:35:57
As an SA, model M and MT3 fan, a DSA tolerator, and a Cherry/DCS/OEM hater, I’m really interested in what you’ve put up so far.
I’d definitely support and buy a set, in the hope that it turns out (like MT3) to be a new profile that I like.
Post by: zslane on Sat, 03 March 2018, 10:49:56
From looking at the renders, it seems like there is a row profile that is very nearly flat, which I think is a good idea. This gives designers the option of offering a flat set of bottom-row modifiers.
Post by: wetnwylde on Sat, 03 March 2018, 16:36:10
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 03 March 2018, 16:37:38
Looks like this will compete with DSS for the most part. I think the (marketplace) success of this will depend on how robust designer support is, how high quality the results are, and how reliable the manufacturing and order fulfillment is. One of the biggest reasons Signature Plastics gets so much of the custom (spherical) keycap business is that they know how to work with designers and their color options are unmatched. The other reason is their vendor relationship with MassDrop, which gets their product onto a lot of keyboards.This is valuable feedback.
From looking at the renders, it seems like there is a row profile that is very nearly flat, which I think is a good idea. This gives designers the option of offering a flat set of bottom-row modifiers.
Coming from this designers perspective, it has been excellent working with mike. I have no doubt that his consideration and diligence will serve set designers as well.
Yes, the qwerty row is level. This was intentional to allow the row profile to be used for other applications such as a uniform profile and that would include the bottom row. This is all of course theoretical. I'm just speaking from the design standpoint, and cannot speak to if/when such options would be available.
I love DSS, but it wont be competing unfortunately because it hasn't been produced in 25 years, for what reason I am not sure.
And... here is a new look at the latest revisions being made. Newest is in red. The old as seen in the tkl layout is grey.
(https://i.imgur.com/4Mm6mHk.png)
Post by: zslane on Sat, 03 March 2018, 16:39:25
I love DSS, but it wont be competing unfortunately because it hasn't been produced in 25 years, for what reason I am not sure.
That is changing:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93584.0
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 03 March 2018, 16:48:57
That is great news!I love DSS, but it wont be competing unfortunately because it hasn't been produced in 25 years, for what reason I am not sure.
That is changing:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93584.0
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 04 March 2018, 23:43:22
Post by: dr_derivative on Mon, 05 March 2018, 07:59:27
That DSS sculpt looks awful based on the pictures. This project will blow it out of the water, especially with the option for a flat bottom row. I absolutely love that on my MT3 /dev/tty0 set.
I think the DSS sculpt looks pretty good. It is quite an aggressive sculpt, so I can see why others mightn't like it.
DSS probably can have a flat bottom row too if the designer chooses. The pictures are 12344, but if 1.25u keys exist in any other profile they can be used instead. I guess we won't know for sure until the first new DSS sets are released :)). I only use my thumb to hit the spacebar, so 12344 with a flipped spacebar looks perfect for me.
Regardless, this looks like it has a much more gentle sculpt, so it will probably suit some people better than DSS.
Post by: wetnwylde on Mon, 05 March 2018, 08:12:37
That DSS sculpt looks awful based on the pictures. This project will blow it out of the water, especially with the option for a flat bottom row. I absolutely love that on my MT3 /dev/tty0 set.
I think the DSS sculpt looks pretty good. It is quite an aggressive sculpt, so I can see why others mightn't like it.
DSS probably can have a flat bottom row too if the designer chooses. The pictures are 12344, but if 1.25u keys exist in any other profile they can be used instead. I guess we won't know for sure until the first new DSS sets are released :))
This looks like it has a much more gentle sculpt regardless, so it will probably suit some people more than DSS.
I also really like the look of dss. I've been asking SP for this profile for a while and their response has always been that they replaced is with sculpted sa because it wasn't popular. Considering how many people pan sa for it's lack of ergonomics, and the general consensus that dss is far more aesthetically pleasing, it kind of makes you wonder whether it might be a bit too aggresive. I guess the only people who know are the ones who have typed on it.
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Post by: emenelopee on Mon, 05 March 2018, 16:07:08
Maybe it would be best to figure out a profile by elimination?
E.g. I think we can scratch Cylindrical sculpted, Cherry profile by GMK already checks all the boxes, it'd be a bold move to compete with them.
Low profile spherical sculpted is being done by evan as you pointed out.
High profile spehrical sculpted exists as SA by SP and Maxkeys. MT3 expanded this to the realm of PBT.
I guess that leaves us with either uniform cylindrical or high profile sculpted cylindrical :P
How about reverse-sculpted so it's like you're typing on the surface of a ball? ;)
Post by: MatchstickMan on Mon, 05 March 2018, 16:17:59
How about reverse-sculpted so it's like you're typing on the surface of a ball? ;)
And reverse-sculpted side to side!!
Post by: Kevadu on Mon, 05 March 2018, 20:01:46
(https://img00.deviantart.net/5a3c/i/2009/309/7/2/keyball_by_saartj1e.jpg)
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 06 March 2018, 13:00:50
* Do design struts inside the keycaps at the right height to make them compatible with silencing O-rings and QMX clips. SA and DSA don't have this.
* Make sure that stabilised keys are thinner in the right places to make them compatible with different Costar-style stabilisers. Some original Cherry keycaps have problems on some keyboards. Many later keysets like Leopold's thick Cherry-profile do this right.
* Injection nipple is least visible if on the bottom.
* Keycaps that are shiny on the sides (regardless of texture on top) look the most vintage-like. I suppose this might be mostly a cost-issue though.
Is DSA really lower than cherry? I Always got the impression that cherry was lower, or at least most of the rows. Is it feasible to do a sculpted cylindrical keyset with a lower profile than cherry?Cherry's home row keys are lower than DSA. Other keys are higher.
DSA is about as high as OEM profile home row.
Regardless of the ultimate profile that is chosen, it would be great if there were convex spacebars for the various split spacebar sizes: 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.75u, etc.Personally I would like the bottom-row modifiers to also be convex, because I tend to press both Alt keys with my thumbs as well.
I am also a member of the school of thought that the angle of the ZXCV row should be larger than uniform. (DCS better, Cherry profile worse. Preferably the switches on the ZXCVB row should be angled more, but no Cherry MX keyboard is done that way)
Post by: SpectreiiI on Wed, 07 March 2018, 08:45:11
Some notes for details:Will do.
* Do design struts inside the keycaps at the right height to make them compatible with silencing O-rings and QMX clips. SA and DSA don't have this.
* Make sure that stabilised keys are thinner in the right places to make them compatible with different Costar-style stabilisers. Some original Cherry keycaps have problems on some keyboards. Many later keysets like Leopold's thick Cherry-profile do this right.I don't believe this will be an issue, but I will make sure to test the prototypes with several variants and make the necessary changes if necessary.
* Injection nipple is least visible if on the bottom.Check
* Keycaps that are shiny on the sides (regardless of texture on top) look the most vintage-like. I suppose this might be mostly a cost-issue though.The sides on these will definitely be high gloss. It's actually a lot cheaper than textured.
Personally I would like the bottom-row modifiers to also be convex, because I tend to press both Alt keys with my thumbs as well.This is unlikely, simply for cost issues.
I am also a member of the school of thought that the angle of the ZXCV row should be larger than uniform. (DCS better, Cherry profile worse. Preferably the switches on the ZXCVB row should be angled more, but no Cherry MX keyboard is done that way)Stay tuned for the next revision...
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 07 March 2018, 10:05:55
Post by: Parva Ovis on Wed, 07 March 2018, 14:23:30
Post by: SpectreiiI on Thu, 08 March 2018, 21:10:44
(https://i.imgur.com/DbQzbNB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7PhPyLv.png)
in this design r1 is defined as the mod row, r6 being the function row
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 08 March 2018, 21:14:31
That dish is calling my name....will feel so damn good.
Post by: yqliang on Thu, 08 March 2018, 21:53:29
Revision 6 renders: Taller caps (.7mm on average), cherry step height (r2-r5), more aggressive sculpting (14.5 to -12.5 degrees), 13mm touch surface (1.1mm deep), refined dishes... next up is legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DbQzbNB.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/7PhPyLv.png)
in this design r1 is defined as the mod row, r6 being the function row
Looks amazing!
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 08 March 2018, 23:14:29
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 09 March 2018, 11:04:57
Looks nice. Will you have an option for flat bottom row?I'm just the designer. As to what will be offered, mgsickler will make the final call. That said, Here are some renders to give you an idea of what it would look like. I will say that this revision has a much more aggressive sculpt than other sets you are probably used to. Because of this, I would think that an inverted r5 (6.5 degrees) would work far better than a r4 (0 degrees) bottom row. I have included a render of that as well for your digestion. Once again, I can't speak to what exactly is going to be offered, just theoretical here.
And with now with textured dishes...
Standard mod row
(https://i.imgur.com/k5L03dd.png)
Alternate r4 (level) mod row
(https://i.imgur.com/6VAJms1.png)
Alternate inverted r5 (6.5 degree) mod row
(https://i.imgur.com/c8MQ2OS.png)
sorry for the difference in the lighting on the last one, I threw this together real quick.
Post by: zslane on Fri, 09 March 2018, 12:07:41
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 09 March 2018, 12:31:41
Meetings continue. Just had a very promising meeting with the tooling company. :) I wish I had more to say, but its going to be a slow, but steady, process.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 09 March 2018, 13:19:27
I will say that this revision has a much more aggressive sculpt than other sets you are probably used to.
So far the only spherical Cherry mount profile I have experience with is MT3, so I'm not a stranger to aggressive sculpts. :D
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 09 March 2018, 13:22:12
For me the biggest issue with angled bottom row is that I don't like angled spacebars. The are uncomfortable on my thumbs when I type.I'm the same way. I learned and use the "proper" form of touch typing, so I hit spacebar with the edge of my right thumb while keeping fingers positioned over the home row. So with an angled bottom row, I'm hitting the sharp edge of the space bar with my thumb every time.
Post by: wetnwylde on Fri, 09 March 2018, 13:51:07
What if the spacebar was contoured in such a way that it essentially lines up with r5 like I rendered but had no rear edge?For me the biggest issue with angled bottom row is that I don't like angled spacebars. The are uncomfortable on my thumbs when I type.I'm the same way. I learned and use the "proper" form of touch typing, so I hit spacebar with the edge of my right thumb while keeping fingers positioned over the home row. So with an angled bottom row, I'm hitting the sharp edge of the space bar with my thumb every time.
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Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 09 March 2018, 14:15:41
[What if the spacebar was contoured in such a way that it essentially lines up with r5 like I rendered but had no rear edge?If the back edge was rounded off enough it might work, I guess, but I'm having trouble imagining exactly what you mean. To visualize the issue, think of the side of the thumb coming straight down onto the space bar, parallel to the plate. If an edge is sticking up, that's going to be an irritation over time.
The most uncomfortable space bar I ever experienced came with a vortex double shot PBT set. In that case, I flipped the space bar around. It looked pretty ridiculous, but worked perfectly.
Post by: zslane on Fri, 09 March 2018, 14:19:22
Flat bottom row will depend on what the tooling costs end up being.
You already have a flat row profile. No need for another one (just for the bottom row). Just make sure you offer a flat spacebar and all is good.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 09 March 2018, 14:22:08
A perfect summation. Bravo.Flat bottom row will depend on what the tooling costs end up being.
You already have a flat row profile. No need for another one (just for the bottom row). Just make sure you offer a flat spacebar and all is good.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 10 March 2018, 22:11:42
It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. Modifier dishes are (currently) half as deep as r4, and the spacebars are convex (obviously), so we are actually talking about an entirely new profile row.A perfect summation. Bravo.Flat bottom row will depend on what the tooling costs end up being.
You already have a flat row profile. No need for another one (just for the bottom row). Just make sure you offer a flat spacebar and all is good.
Post by: Harms on Sun, 11 March 2018, 03:44:15
Post by: Bubblegum on Sun, 11 March 2018, 04:41:25
I wonder what the name will be for this awesome profile. :)
How about NVK or NKS for NovelKeys? Or since it's a collab' between Spectre and Mgsickler, maybe SxM (or the other way around). Just some quickfire ideas ;)
Post by: KeLorean on Sun, 11 March 2018, 07:38:24
Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 11 March 2018, 09:52:25
The internal name is SSS (triple-S), but I have no idea how it will be branded. I kind of like the sound of phonetic names more than codes though.I wonder what the name will be for this awesome profile. :)
How about NVK or NKS for NovelKeys? Or since it's a collab' between Spectre and Mgsickler, maybe SxM (or the other way around). Just some quickfire ideas ;)
Post by: dr_derivative on Sun, 11 March 2018, 11:20:32
The internal name is SSS (triple-S), but I have no idea how it will be branded. I kind of like the sound of phonetic names more than codes though.I wonder what the name will be for this awesome profile. :)
How about NVK or NKS for NovelKeys? Or since it's a collab' between Spectre and Mgsickler, maybe SxM (or the other way around). Just some quickfire ideas ;)
I agree that an acronym won't stand out much when we already have SA, DSA, DSS, DCS, G20, XDA, HuB, MT3, etc.
Also, SSS just makes me think of snek :))
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/71/1d/23/711d23d7fd66b6beeabbdac4051727cf--embedded-image-permalink-google.jpg)
Post by: zslane on Sun, 11 March 2018, 12:53:55
It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. Modifier dishes are (currently) half as deep as r4, and the spacebars are convex (obviously), so we are actually talking about an entirely new profile row.
The convex spacebar vs. concave modifiers issue is not a problem that needs solving, IMO. Sure, it would be super cool if there was a full convex profile, but it is not a necessity. Moreover, any keyset designer who wants to provide a flat bottom row can just use the flat profile you already have. If you want to invest in a different flat profile just for bottom row mods, knock yourself out. I'm just saying it isn't really that necessary and that keyset designers can get by just fine without it.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 11 March 2018, 15:20:13
I think you might be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I had intended that (for comfort reasons) the modifiers have a significantly shallower dish than the other keys. They don't necessarily have to be, but if they were and a flat bottom row was simply derived from r4's existing geometry, you would end up bottom row mods with deep dish and every other mod shallow. Furthermore, legends would have to be cut for both dish profiles, one for each bottom row.It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. Modifier dishes are (currently) half as deep as r4, and the spacebars are convex (obviously), so we are actually talking about an entirely new profile row.
The convex spacebar vs. concave modifiers issue is not a problem that needs solving, IMO. Sure, it would be super cool if there was a full convex profile, but it is not a necessity. Moreover, any keyset designer who wants to provide a flat bottom row can just use the flat profile you already have. If you want to invest in a different flat profile just for bottom row mods, knock yourself out. I'm just saying it isn't really that necessary and that keyset designers can get by just fine without it.
That said, I understand that a flat spacebar option is very important (if not essential) to your comfort and a consistent bottom row is essential to proper aesthetics. If you are open to a potential alternative which could give you the typing experience that you are most comfortable with without necessarily needed a full flat row, I am working on something that could strike a balance and negate the need for two separate row options altogether. And if that still doesn't meet your needs, there is always the option of just making the dishes uniform and doing as you have suggested.
At the end of the day, it is still quite early in development and a lot can and necessarily will change before production. It is my hope that this profile will not only meet your expectations, but exceed them, but it will be a while before anything is a surety one way or another.
Thanks for the feedback.
Post by: zslane on Sun, 11 March 2018, 16:30:18
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 11 March 2018, 17:07:03
I wouldn’t mess around with dish depths just for “comfort” sake. Profile angles will have more impact on comfort, I feel, than dish depth. I would prioritize for angle options, even at the expense of trying to “optimize” dishing. I mean, if you find yourself concerned about the comfort of deep dishing, then I would suggest that deep dishing should be avoided all together, except maybe for homing keys. A middle-ground dish depth, somewhere between deep and shallow, should be plenty comfortable enough for all keys.I "mess around" with every potential element. When capital costs are as high as they are for a product like this, it's a matter of due diligence. There is one thing that assures failure more than anything else. That is contempt prior to investigation.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 11 March 2018, 17:19:09
Post by: SpectreiiI on Tue, 20 March 2018, 00:33:06
I ran into a rather complex problem involving the legend molds, specifically the modifier legends. It took over a week and literally 12 different methodological changes before I finally stumbled into a solution. The details are rather verbose (and boring), but essentially I have come up with a form that allows the same legend plates to be used for a modifier of any length while maintaining the curved edges of the dish. This is far more aesthetically pleasing than the alternative (think flatish, inconsistently lofted sides on SP doubleshot mods).
Here is a quick illustrative I worked up.
(https://i.imgur.com/jjM5LZD.png)
Anyway, now I can (finally) start on legend plates.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 23 March 2018, 19:45:42
(https://i.imgur.com/xy52R0K.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2qRqQV1.png)
The latest revision...
I, personally, am quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what will be produced. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.
I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Fri, 23 March 2018, 20:01:07
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hZbtZWN.png)
The latest revision...
I, personally, and quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what sizes and options will be offered. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.
I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.
Good work man, can't wait to throw my money at the project once it's completed.
Post by: KaosJ on Fri, 23 March 2018, 20:33:45
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hZbtZWN.png)
The latest revision...
I, personally, am quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what will be produced. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.
I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.
Is the top arrow a mistake?
Also, at the end you are not considering lowering a bit the last row caps inclination, making it more linear with the rest of the profile (slightly)
(https://i.imgur.com/IgyOU2O.png)
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 23 March 2018, 21:03:33
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 23 March 2018, 21:47:00
No, but I'm sure an r2 or r3 up arrow will be the default. I like very little step and a lot of sculpt between my arrow rows. Just a preference thing.
Is the top arrow a mistake?
Also, at the end you are not considering lowering a bit the last row caps inclination, making it more linear with the rest of the profile (slightly)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IgyOU2O.png)
The lowest alpha row and mod row (r1-2) are the same profile row like in modern cherry, Leopold (SS2), and filco (OEM) profile and the angle of the touch surface is comparable. The relationship between the row angles across the entire profile is progressive, not linear. This is to best match the angle of the touch surfaces to the angle at which fingers curl and extend, which is also progressive. That said, there are other r2 versions already modeled which are less aggressive. Nothing is set in stone.
Alternate row 1 profiles have been designed, though they would add considerable capital cost. It is possible that one will be offered, but as Mike said earlier in the thread, the feasibility is currently uncertain.
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 23 March 2018, 22:17:34
Once I get those numbers, I can start working on the getting everything in place. I thought I would have had a quote earlier, but the company really wants to make sure that they give a really close estimate number. They know how important getting the molds perfected means to the community and the project.
Hopefully I’ll have some more news in the coming weeks!
Post by: a_ak57 on Fri, 23 March 2018, 23:52:16
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 24 March 2018, 00:01:57
Looking really nice, I like the design choices/reasoning. Would you be able to post a side view of this compared to some other profiles to help translate it to real life?I will work on this
Post by: jebbra on Sat, 24 March 2018, 02:25:01
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 24 March 2018, 03:43:21
What font you guys have in mind for now?I like eurostile rounded.
Post by: jebbra on Sat, 24 March 2018, 05:15:08
What font you guys have in mind for now?I like eurostile rounded.
Ahh so this will go with a more "futuristic" approach. May I suggest a more timeless one? Gotham family is quite classic IMO, or maybe Varela Round.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 24 March 2018, 12:04:39
In my opinion, Gotham is an excellent choice. The issue is (and this is the case with any typeface), certain glyphs which were initially intended to be complimentary to an expression, have a hard time standing out on their own. Gotham has a lot of symbols that fall in this category.
I like Eurostile because I find that the weighting (Especially of O shaped characters) compliments the shape of the dishes, and the glyphs tend to stand out in a way which is more cohesive to the legend set as a whole.
DIN round is also being considered, and Mike has expressed that he prefers it over Eurostile. So, nothing is set in stone. Thanks for the feedback.
Post by: zslane on Sat, 24 March 2018, 12:21:34
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sat, 24 March 2018, 12:40:08
Gotham is probably the most neutral looking, and will better match the style of vintage keycap legends (like Space Cadet, Honeywell, etc.). Just something to think about.In the case of space cadet, new plates will need to be made for a majority of the legends anyway, but I hear yah.
Post by: Allo on Sat, 24 March 2018, 18:11:14
Post by: dr_derivative on Sat, 24 March 2018, 20:05:25
(https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/content/media/40/704140-large.jpg)
Post by: Cods on Sun, 25 March 2018, 04:09:43
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 25 March 2018, 13:35:21
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 25 March 2018, 13:51:03
Post by: zslane on Sun, 25 March 2018, 15:33:44
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 25 March 2018, 16:07:28
Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut, but it's a fun exercise if nothing else
Those stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.It's not just the stepped alts. The spacebar is actually matched to the profile of the steps, which is substantially different from a standard flat row such as r4. If you were to simply place an r4 spacebar between r1 mods, it would not be aligned with any single face of the other keys.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Sun, 25 March 2018, 16:43:32
For what it's worth I like it ...Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut, but it's a fun exercise if nothing elseThose stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.It's not just the stepped alts. The spacebar is actually matched to the profile of the steps, which is substantially different from a standard flat row such as r4. If you were to simply place an r4 spacebar between r1 mods, it would not be aligned with any single face of the other keys.
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 25 March 2018, 16:43:40
And, as I said before, I prefer those to be convex because I press them with my thumbs.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 25 March 2018, 17:26:28
Hey, the Alts are the only modifiers I use on the bottom row. Don't mess with them!Just offering some potential options, not replacing anything. As far as convex mods go, if it were only for 1.25 and 1.5u, I wouldn't say they were outside the realm of possibility, but I would think the best way to ensure production is to do a group buy.
And, as I said before, I prefer those to be convex because I press them with my thumbs.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 25 March 2018, 20:29:55
Will be excited to see what you come up with, definitely a thread I'll be watching.
Post by: zslane on Sun, 25 March 2018, 22:00:11
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 25 March 2018, 22:33:20
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 25 March 2018, 22:44:06
Everyone seems to be on the retro chain, but we have a fairly decent amount of offerings for spherical sets. XDA, DSA, MT3, SA, even MAXKEYS has their own sculpted sphericals.
However, there doesn't seem to be any option for low profile sculpted caps, or even just low profile cylindrical.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Sun, 25 March 2018, 22:49:13
Like the cool and unique ideas, and the effort going into community feedback here :thumb:Thanks for the support. It really means a lot coming from an aficionado such as yourself. I would trade a kidney for your raytheon board.
Will be excited to see what you come up with, definitely a thread I'll be watching.
I wouldn't mind convex mods. It would be reminiscent of the beamspring bottom row, but not quite so low in comparison to the rest of the keys.
Certainly convex mods that match the spacebar in terms of angle and height would be really cool, and it might be sufficient to just start with 1.25u and expand to other sizes later on if they prove popular with designers. It would definitely make this new profile stand apart from the crowd.Ok. As always, I am just a designer, but I will work on getting a couple of convex r1 options modeled.
Just a fair disclaimer, since they are convex, profile and legend molds will have to be unique for this to work, so all of this adds capital cost and reduces the likelyhood of fruition.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Mon, 26 March 2018, 01:56:21
(https://i.imgur.com/9K08VGj.png)
SSS is superimposed in blue over the corresponding profile in red. From the top down is SA, MIX, Filco (OEM), and Cherry.
Post by: Vulcan on Mon, 26 March 2018, 06:31:34
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 26 March 2018, 06:44:52
May i know what plastic injection machine are you going to use?
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Thats way down the road from now.
I am still in talks with my tooling company, and then after that I will finalize the profile, then work with the tooling company to produce some initial sets, and then from there I would be looking in to getting some machines.
Post by: a_ak57 on Mon, 26 March 2018, 07:04:01
Someone had asked for a profile overlay for comparison and I lost my patience trying to make a pretty render so here is a potato one instead ;)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/9K08VGj.png)
SSS is superimposed in blue over the corresponding profile in red. From the top down is SA, MIX, Filco (OEM), and Cherry.
Thanks a bunch for this! Looks like what I'd want from a new spherical layout, kind of a more ergonomically sculpted Cherry profile.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 26 March 2018, 12:11:29
There is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.
I suspect that SP's revived DSS profile will be the closest thing we're going to get to a low profile sculptured spherical keycap family. Though it, like this NovelKeys profile, may be closer to medium profile than low profile. Still, it will be substantially lower than SA (which is what Maxkey produces) or MT3 (which is itself a little lower than SA).
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 26 March 2018, 12:27:16
so here is a potato one instead ;)
I appreciate this, this is super helpful.
Post by: DasGnome on Mon, 26 March 2018, 13:36:54
Post by: dsaf on Mon, 26 March 2018, 16:04:45
Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut...
Thank you, I would buy a kit with stepped keys, especially with a stepped ISO enter!
Could stepped caps-lock have a stem that is positioned to be compatible with TKL keyboards-one-can-actually-buy (e.g. Filco, Varmilo) as opposed to some mythical "standard" TKL keyboards?
Also, any thoughts on the pilot key-set? I would be interested in RetroBlight or Nuntucket Selectric. Something rare and colourful but not too crazy.
PS: since starting from scratch - any possibility of triple-shots or something weird like embossed rather than level legends?
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Mon, 26 March 2018, 16:18:59
Don't forget the HUB profile that Van Keyboards is working onThere is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.
I suspect that SP's revived DSS profile will be the closest thing we're going to get to a low profile sculptured spherical keycap family. Though it, like this NovelKeys profile, may be closer to medium profile than low profile. Still, it will be substantially lower than SA (which is what Maxkey produces) or MT3 (which is itself a little lower than SA).
Post by: SpectreiiI on Mon, 26 March 2018, 18:28:09
yeah, stepped iso enter is a hat tip to bigger-ass enters like you would find on a extel teleprinter. Looks rad. I'm not sure what the pilot set will be, but something like honeywell would be fitting, considering the profile's roots. The caps were designed from the ground up to accomodate triple shot legends, so if there is enough demand, it can be done. Embossed legends wont happen. They collect dirt and there simply isn't a big enough demand to justify the tooling. Thanks for the feedback.Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut...
Thank you, I would buy a kit with stepped keys, especially with a stepped ISO enter!
Could stepped caps-lock have a stem that is positioned to be compatible with TKL keyboards-one-can-actually-buy (e.g. Filco, Varmilo) as opposed to some mythical "standard" TKL keyboards?
Also, any thoughts on the pilot key-set? I would be interested in RetroBlight or Nuntucket Selectric. Something rare and colourful but not too crazy.
PS: since starting from scratch - any possibility of triple-shots or something weird like embossed rather than level legends?
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 26 March 2018, 19:09:08
The caps were designed from the ground up to accomodate triple shot legends, so if there is enough demand, it can be done.:o
I demand it!
:D
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 27 March 2018, 10:09:57
I have had a bunch of meetings, emails, and phone calls on this project. We had some pretty good numbers laid out in our initial projections, but we received a ballpark quote for the tooling yesterday. This estimate was nearly double what we had initially come up with.
What this means:
- The project is NOT dead, and will continue, and the timeline is still on track.
- We will have to go a different route with the profile. This is because with the investors and the amount we are looking at, I wouldnt be able to offer SpectreiiI a fair amount for his work. I really appreciate the work that he has put in, and he has a very nice looking profile. Unfortunately, I wont be able to use it.
- I will begin work on my own, unique profile. Once I have some design updates, I will make a post here with some renders. No ETA on that, but looking to be around May or so for those renders.
Sorry to disappoint anyone by not being able to use SpectreiiI's profile. We have no hard feelings, and like I said, I really liked his profile. Stay tuned for updates.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 27 March 2018, 10:54:06
Post by: notflipperdan420 on Tue, 27 March 2018, 12:37:39
Post by: cfiggis on Tue, 27 March 2018, 15:02:24
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 27 March 2018, 15:06:42
That's unfortunate. What features of the profile made it so much more expensive to tool than anticipated?
It wasnt the profile that made it more expensive. It was just the tooling itself. We had some rough quotes from beforehand that we went off, and unfortunately, those were not correct or even close.
Post by: Vulcan on Tue, 27 March 2018, 19:20:07
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 27 March 2018, 20:55:25
Do you have a rough sketch on how the new profile will look like?
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
No, I wont be posting any sketches, just the initial rough render around May.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Wed, 28 March 2018, 07:24:19
I just wanted to say that it has been a pleasure working with mgsickler. He is a class act. Though our collaboration on this project has come to an end, I am confident that Novelkeys new profile will live up to the outstanding quality and performance that we have all enjoyed in their current products.
Thanks to mike and the community for your time and support of my work. This has been an invaluable experience for me. Best of luck to Novelkeys. I will be watching intently to see where this goes.
George
Post by: GarrettSucks on Fri, 30 March 2018, 21:52:56
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 08 April 2018, 08:28:28
Design work has officially started. My goal is to actually have a 3D printed prototype profile at an upcoming meetup. :)
I will post some renders of the profile once I have something basically in line with what my vision is.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 08 April 2018, 11:51:10
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 15 May 2018, 16:40:20
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.
(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 15 May 2018, 17:09:08
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
This is awesome, Can't wait to see what comes of this!!! Now if only we could confirm fitment with alps switches with my sliders... ;)
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 15 May 2018, 22:27:43
Post by: gnunin on Wed, 16 May 2018, 00:10:58
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 16 May 2018, 00:42:57
Post by: Cods on Wed, 16 May 2018, 01:10:44
Post by: midnight2903 on Wed, 16 May 2018, 02:09:26
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 16 May 2018, 06:08:32
I'm finding it hard to tell from the picture, are both prototype rows the same height? the one in the back almost looks taller.
Same height. I want to wait until I get things really close to my ideal set before showing it off in detail.
Those Topre Hipro are so juicy. Love me some high profiles.
Hipro is one of my favorite profiles!
This is awesome, Can't wait to see what comes of this!!! Now if only we could confirm fitment with alps switches with my sliders... ;)
Thank you! :) I think they would be compatible, but once I finalize I could send you maybe a sample to check.
Lookin’ good. Nice work - I really like people who put ideas into reality. Still buying, so long as it’s in a decent colourway. :)
I appreciate that!
Thanks for the update. I'm not sure if I like the small, flat row 1. Dev/tty is my only experience with spherical profiles though. Doesn't having them so much shorter than row 2 make them harder to reach with one hand while doing a key combo like ctrl-F6?
I havent decided which way I will go about that just yet. I may even do both.
That looks sexy af :thumb:
Thank you!
Post by: a_ak57 on Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:14:04
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 16 May 2018, 10:48:30
A hi-pro replica is nice, but tbh with the HUB profile KS going south it might be worth taking another look at making a sculpted low profile.
This will actually be shorter than Topre Hipro. More of a mid height style.
Post by: Zuology on Wed, 16 May 2018, 11:26:05
So mid-height topre hipro-esque (squared off spherical concave)? I've heard great things about hipro but haven't had a chance to finger myself yet. I am an SA loving heathen, so I assume it will be even better!
I second the input that full height F-row is better than short/r3 height, for aesthetics and for use, especially on compact layouts like 75% where the short f-row will be blocked by the taller numrow. Even if option, and not base set.
Post by: ptiede on Wed, 16 May 2018, 11:28:16
A hi-pro replica is nice, but tbh with the HUB profile KS going south it might be worth taking another look at making a sculpted low profile.
This will actually be shorter than Topre Hipro. More of a mid height style.
I am really excited for this. You are doing a great job Mike, love ya!
Post by: zslane on Wed, 16 May 2018, 12:27:49
I do like the depth of dishing and the smoothness of the gradient from the top ridge to the center of the keycap in the prototype(s). Topre Hi-Pro keycaps have too sharp a ridge crease for my tastes, and MT3 comes dangerously close to that as well, but is a bit better than Hi-Pros in that regard. SA has the gentlest gradient of all, but they aren't dished deeply enough, IMO. In fact, I think that the deep-dish mold for SA should be the standard mold for SA, and they should make their deep dish keys a bit deeper still. That's why I like the dishing in the prototype(s); they seem to strike just the right balance, though I'd like to see what a deep dish prototype would look like as well.
Personally I don't care for the huge drop-off that Topre's Hi-Pro keycaps have, both from the numrow to the F-row, and from the Shift-row to the bottom row. It is neither aesthetically pleasing nor ergonomic. I have a Topre 104UK Hi-Pro and those drop-offs are rather unpleasant, to be frank.
Post by: KaosJ on Wed, 16 May 2018, 13:34:18
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
Interesting, found a way to make it made?
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Wed, 16 May 2018, 14:30:58
... haven't had a chance to finger myself yet.
Don't forget the lube! ;)
The keycaps look great Mike! Liking the increase in typing surface area from proto 1 to 2. I also want to echo the sentiment regarding taller f-row. Looking forward to future updates!
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 16 May 2018, 15:24:19
I am really excited for this. You are doing a great job Mike, love ya!
<3 Thank you!
The gentle and symmetrical row angles of the prototype(s) remind me of SA, which has some minor benefits, but I know the community likes row profiles that are more Cherry/Beamspring-ish. And the roundness of MT3 makes them superior, shape-wise, to any other spherical keycap being made today, so that's something to think about.
I do like the depth of dishing and the smoothness of the gradient from the top ridge to the center of the keycap in the prototype(s). Topre Hi-Pro keycaps have too sharp a ridge crease for my tastes, and MT3 comes dangerously close to that as well, but is a bit better than Hi-Pros in that regard. SA has the gentlest gradient of all, but they aren't dished deeply enough, IMO. In fact, I think that the deep-dish mold for SA should be the standard mold for SA, and they should make their deep dish keys a bit deeper still. That's why I like the dishing in the prototype(s); they seem to strike just the right balance, though I'd like to see what a deep dish prototype would look like as well.
Personally I don't care for the huge drop-off that Topre's Hi-Pro keycaps have, both from the numrow to the F-row, and from the Shift-row to the bottom row. It is neither aesthetically pleasing nor ergonomic. I have a Topre 104UK Hi-Pro and those drop-offs are rather unpleasant, to be frank.
Yea, I already changed that up and will make that top two rows the same. My second prototype didnt feel deep enough for the dish, so the third proto will have a slightly deeper dish, but I dont think it will be as sharp as some others.
Interesting, found a way to make it made?
Yes, but its going to be a slow process getting it all going.
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 16 May 2018, 22:21:28
Post by: kristmascane on Thu, 17 May 2018, 08:20:43
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 17 May 2018, 10:33:48
This looks fantastic!
Thanks! :)
This looks really promising! Great work, Mike!
Thank you much!
Post by: Shadohhh on Thu, 17 May 2018, 10:42:22
I also think that having a picture with just the topre high pro and the newest sculpt would help show off that mid-height more.
Post by: ullr on Mon, 28 May 2018, 16:59:47
Post by: Zuology on Mon, 28 May 2018, 20:10:35
You should sell blank sets to raise funds for all the legend molds ;)
Actually this isn't a bad idea. If you did a polished 3d printed or first test run on molds before fine tuning, for early adopters to test review and validate the profile before the official first run(s), it could go a long way toward disproving the potential naysayers. Funds from these early adopters could be used to fine tune/bootstrap larger production run. Specifically I'm thinking about lessons learned from Hub's first attempt, which a lot of people were unsure of but were backing because of the price and colorways, with the profile shape largely unproven. Also as an example the EDRUG Mix/MDA first run was a cheap low cost way to get the new profile out to users, with higher quality runs following. Just my 2c, but it's a thought worth exploration.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Mon, 28 May 2018, 20:23:14
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 28 May 2018, 20:51:35
Post by: macclack on Mon, 28 May 2018, 23:01:08
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 28 May 2018, 23:54:52
You should sell blank sets to raise funds for all the legend molds ;)
Actually this isn't a bad idea. If you did a polished 3d printed or first test run on molds before fine tuning, for early adopters to test review and validate the profile before the official first run(s), it could go a long way toward disproving the potential naysayers. Funds from these early adopters could be used to fine tune/bootstrap larger production run. Specifically I'm thinking about lessons learned from Hub's first attempt, which a lot of people were unsure of but were backing because of the price and colorways, with the profile shape largely unproven. Also as an example the EDRUG Mix/MDA first run was a cheap low cost way to get the new profile out to users, with higher quality runs following. Just my 2c, but it's a thought worth exploration.
+1 for this. Plus, I always welcome nice-looking blanks.
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 29 May 2018, 08:15:51
Post by: Mangaboy5398 on Tue, 29 May 2018, 12:43:49
Post by: ramblinrose on Wed, 30 May 2018, 08:36:14
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 30 May 2018, 16:33:36
I will definitely have a keyboard full of keycaps for Keycon.
(https://i.imgur.com/vtMT6ob.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/janAALg.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oMqzOmp.jpg)
Post by: SpectreiiI on Wed, 30 May 2018, 16:51:28
Thanks everyone for some feedback! Here are a couple more pictures.Fantastic work Mike! Having spent WAY too much time modeling my profile, these seem really well sorted. I will be watching for updates.
I will definitely have a keyboard full of keycaps for Keycon.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vtMT6ob.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/janAALg.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oMqzOmp.jpg)
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 30 May 2018, 17:27:32
Post by: a_ak57 on Wed, 30 May 2018, 19:15:22
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 30 May 2018, 20:02:58
Fantastic work Mike! Having spent WAY too much time modeling my profile, these seem really well sorted. I will be watching for updates.
Thanks so much! I’m really pleased with how it’s turning out. :)
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 30 May 2018, 20:03:41
Height looks good. By the way how would you describe the level of "cuppiness" compared to SA/tty/hi-pro? Hard to tell from pictures.It’s almost in the between SA and Hipro. Shorter than both of them though.
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Wed, 30 May 2018, 20:05:40
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 30 May 2018, 23:37:07
Post by: gnunin on Wed, 30 May 2018, 23:40:19
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 31 May 2018, 07:25:12
Looks fantastic Mike! Love the adjustments to the F-row.
That looks really nice. I'm excited to try it.
Looks great! :thumb: I really think I can enjoy this profile. Looking forward to it.
Thank you all! I am really excited to get this going.
Post by: smurkcity12 on Wed, 06 June 2018, 22:31:51
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MajorclaM on Wed, 06 June 2018, 22:51:07
Post by: zap2oz on Wed, 06 June 2018, 22:54:12
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
I like the looks of these! I'd probably end up buying a set to test them out at the very least
Post by: Bael_Zharon on Wed, 06 June 2018, 23:21:56
Also really interested to see what the first theme / colors are going to be.
Post by: watchy0ubac on Thu, 07 June 2018, 03:09:04
Thanks everyone for some feedback! Here are a couple more pictures.This looks really good. Would be very interested in giving the set a shot and can't wait to see more of what's to come as it progresses from here!
I will definitely have a keyboard full of keycaps for Keycon.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vtMT6ob.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/janAALg.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oMqzOmp.jpg)
Post by: Hongook on Thu, 07 June 2018, 03:26:58
Post by: midnight2903 on Thu, 07 June 2018, 05:47:20
Definitely interested in trying these out. Is there a name for these profiles yet?
The profile is called New Keycap :))
Post by: lumpofunworth on Thu, 07 June 2018, 08:24:37
Post by: RobotRogue on Thu, 07 June 2018, 10:49:09
Post by: forstsiven on Thu, 07 June 2018, 13:28:00
Render looks great!
Post by: anatworkaccount on Thu, 07 June 2018, 13:38:57
Post by: Corgiattackkk on Thu, 07 June 2018, 16:53:10
Post by: meepmeep on Thu, 07 June 2018, 17:07:43
The render looks fantastic! Can't wait to see more updates as time goes by. Also, count me interested for the blanks idea too.
Me too!
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 15 June 2018, 13:34:51
(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
Post by: _ODIN_ on Fri, 15 June 2018, 13:40:39
New update! I have been typing on the 3D printed profile for a couple days now. I am really enjoying it. Here are a couple pictures. Please note that these are 3D printed, so some of the keycaps dont fit just perfectly.approved :thumb:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
Post by: romevi on Fri, 15 June 2018, 13:46:03
New update! I have been typing on the 3D printed profile for a couple days now. I am really enjoying it. Here are a couple pictures. Please note that these are 3D printed, so some of the keycaps dont fit just perfectly.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
Simple. :thumb:
Post by: zslane on Fri, 15 June 2018, 13:50:37
Post by: SpectreiiI on Fri, 15 June 2018, 14:32:54
Post by: elfick on Fri, 15 June 2018, 15:39:59
I recently got a 75% ( I think... it's a Drevo Gramr) and I love it except for the num and f-key row height similarity. :)
Post by: bciamny on Fri, 15 June 2018, 15:53:54
Post by: Corgiattackkk on Fri, 15 June 2018, 17:52:31
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 15 June 2018, 17:53:40
Looks good!Thank you!
Outstanding progress! :thumb:I appreciate that. Its coming along pretty well. :)
Looks great! Any chance for a r0?
I recently got a 75% ( I think... it's a Drevo Gramr) and I love it except for the num and f-key row height similarity. :)
Most likely not. The top two rows will be the same.
how aggressive does the scooping feel compared to sp sa? and if any comparison to the scooping on topre hi-pro?
Its like SA crossed between HiPro.
Post by: romevi on Fri, 15 June 2018, 18:15:49
SA was far too painful to use on my Jane, which gets a little high as it is. This profile looks like it may be much more comfortable.
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 15 June 2018, 18:58:30
New update! I have been typing on the 3D printed profile for a couple days now. I am really enjoying it. Here are a couple pictures. Please note that these are 3D printed, so some of the keycaps dont fit just perfectly.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LgChKWr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ENirBD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DDHARJQ.jpg)
Next steps.
I am currently working through what keycaps and legends are needed to have maximum compatibility. Once I get the total number of keys and legends, I will be able to move a little quicker with things. No real ETA, but if everything goes smoothly, I think I should have keycaps within a years time.
Oh man does that look nice! Sculpted SA is my fav profile as it stands, but I do not like using it with high angled boards. This looks like it would work great with high angled boards & have that sculpted SA type of feel. Are you bringing a set to Keycon?
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 16 June 2018, 07:59:09
What keyboard is that? It looks about the same angle as my Jane.
SA was far too painful to use on my Jane, which gets a little high as it is. This profile looks like it may be much more comfortable.
Its a Norbatouch! :)
Oh man does that look nice! Sculpted SA is my fav profile as it stands, but I do not like using it with high angled boards. This looks like it would work great with high angled boards & have that sculpted SA type of feel. Are you bringing a set to Keycon?
I will be bringing this to Keycon for sure.
Post by: dvorcol on Sat, 16 June 2018, 12:10:34
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 16 June 2018, 13:18:10
R4 is the same mold as R2, just turned upside down – right?
That’s correct.
We are labeling the rows as A, B, C, and D. So a normal layout would be AABCDC. B and D are just mirrored.
Post by: Dovan1405 on Sat, 16 June 2018, 13:21:01
also when can we expect this to be out?
Post by: Rob27shred on Sat, 16 June 2018, 13:55:19
What keyboard is that? It looks about the same angle as my Jane.
SA was far too painful to use on my Jane, which gets a little high as it is. This profile looks like it may be much more comfortable.
Its a Norbatouch! :)
Oh man does that look nice! Sculpted SA is my fav profile as it stands, but I do not like using it with high angled boards. This looks like it would work great with high angled boards & have that sculpted SA type of feel. Are you bringing a set to Keycon?
I will be bringing this to Keycon for sure.
Awesome! Look forward to seeing you there & hopefully getting to try this profile for myself, thanks for the reply! :thumb:
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 16 June 2018, 14:19:32
wow i cant wait for this. will there be any unique colour mods or are you just gonna focus on the profile of the keycaps?
also when can we expect this to be out?
For now I’m just focusing on the profile and the kits. My first set will definitely be more of a mild colorway. But down the road I definitely want to work with some designers.
No real ETA on the keycaps. If everything goes smoothly, probably within a year. But thats just a guess for now.
Thanks!
Post by: Raqem on Sun, 08 July 2018, 16:00:09
R4 is the same mold as R2, just turned upside down – right?
That’s correct.
We are labeling the rows as A, B, C, and D. So a normal layout would be AABCDC. B and D are just mirrored.
Or... get this... the layout is: aabcdc, and b and d are just mirrored.
Get it?
I'll show myself out now.
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 08 July 2018, 16:38:25
How many high quality OEM brands are there? None?!
Go with cherry, and after we've been able to make you earn something, feel free to experiment.
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 08 July 2018, 16:43:09
Post by: Snappo on Tue, 10 July 2018, 07:48:47
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 15 July 2018, 06:07:24
I'd like to see some competition in cherry profile. All other profiles, from a commercial standpoint, are a miserable failure. How many SA makers are there? Probably 3.
How many high quality OEM brands are there? None?!
Go with cherry, and after we've been able to make you earn something, feel free to experiment.
Whatever road you'll choose, please give us some ISO!
I am pretty happy with the way my profile is turning out, and the way it feels to type on it. So I wont be changing that up. As for ISO, I am unsure at this time if it will be included at first. It all depends on the what the total costs are going to be on my end.
Cant wait for Novelpro. Fully for this. :thumb:
Thanks!
Post by: Wetherbee on Sun, 15 July 2018, 07:09:02
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 15 July 2018, 11:20:14
I'd like to see some competition in cherry profile. All other profiles, from a commercial standpoint, are a miserable failure. How many SA makers are there? Probably 3.
How many high quality OEM brands are there? None?!
Go with cherry, and after we've been able to make you earn something, feel free to experiment.Whatever road you'll choose, please give us some ISO!
I am pretty happy with the way my profile is turning out, and the way it feels to type on it. So I wont be changing that up. As for ISO, I am unsure at this time if it will be included at first. It all depends on the what the total costs are going to be on my end.Cant wait for Novelpro. Fully for this. :thumb:
Thanks!
The fact that you didn't choose the cherry or the OEM profile means that you're not competitive in the pricing and in the quality. It's the same thing that happened with that brand that was offering keycaps in cherry profile. The price was comparable with GMK but the consistency was way lower. Have fun.
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 15 July 2018, 11:48:58
The fact that you didn't choose the cherry or the OEM profile means that you're not competitive in the pricing and in the quality. It's the same thing that happened with that brand that was offering keycaps in cherry profile. The price was comparable with GMK but the consistency was way lower. Have fun.
You’re making assumptions on your own opinions. No facts.
I didn’t want to be a clone of another profile.
In terms of pricing, that isn’t worked out yet. In terms of quality, I will only have the best. There would be zero incentive for me to make this without having the quality.
Hope that helps clarify.
Post by: Kevadu on Sun, 15 July 2018, 23:20:11
Here is a hypothetical situation. People here spend a lot of time and effort discussing keyboard layouts. Now imagine that somebody were to post an interest check for a keyboard with a totally new layout and then somebody else responded saying they should just make an ANSI TKL board and anyone who doesn't make ANSI TKLs only does so because they couldn't compete in the ANSI TKL market. Such a person would be laughed right out of the forums. And rightfully so because that is a baseless and crazy claim.
That is exactly what you're doing. Just exchange layout for keycap profile.
Post by: StrangPrisoner on Mon, 16 July 2018, 01:28:53
Post by: dsaf on Mon, 16 July 2018, 03:40:59
Post by: suicidal_orange on Mon, 16 July 2018, 04:55:04
Post by: elfick on Mon, 16 July 2018, 12:35:11
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 16 July 2018, 16:22:09
I think you would make a lot more money as a business venture if you could invest upfront in doubleshot PBT machining and chemistry. Success would mean knocking GMK and SA off their pedistal, especially if you could get the texture options to enable keyfeel to mimic smooth ABS or the chalkier feel of PBT with the same profile. The Koreans have established that doubleshot PBT can produce colors just as vibrant as ABS. It could be the profile to end all profiles. Otherwise what niche is this profile competeing in? Lower cost spherical? Taking advantage of SA's limited capacity? I think Maxkeys is already cornering that market and you can't compete with the Chinese on price unless you build a complete automation factory to minimize labor costs.
Possibly PBT, but only if everyone involved (tooling company, manu, and me) knows that it will work without sacrificing quality.
When Spectreiil was involved there was discussion of a convex bottom row. Is that still part of the plan?
No, that is not part of the plan right now.
Post by: Kisuli on Tue, 17 July 2018, 11:46:48
Post by: ray160 on Sat, 04 August 2018, 16:46:19
Post by: stolenweapon on Thu, 09 August 2018, 03:45:14
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 09 August 2018, 06:13:09
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 09 August 2018, 17:31:36
Not finalized font (pretty close though), but this was exciting to get to see.
Post by: Starius on Thu, 09 August 2018, 17:39:37
https://i.imgur.com/OmH9uMr.png
Not finalized font (pretty close though), but this was exciting to get to see.
Very interesting!
Have you announced what sort of "theme" or vibe you're going with for this keycap set yet?
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 09 August 2018, 19:19:17
Very interesting!
Have you announced what sort of "theme" or vibe you're going with for this keycap set yet?
My main inspiration was Topre HiPro mixed with SA. So thats basically what I am aiming for in terms of the profile and legends.
Post by: Starius on Thu, 09 August 2018, 20:24:32
Very interesting!
Have you announced what sort of "theme" or vibe you're going with for this keycap set yet?
My main inspiration was Topre HiPro mixed with SA. So thats basically what I am aiming for in terms of the profile and legends.
Hmmm, I guess I'll have to see what you come up with for color schemes.... but based on that description, I'm thinking it might be the kind of keycap set I'd want to throw on the S7 Elephant when it comes out!
Post by: Zilleon on Wed, 15 August 2018, 21:51:05
It is so unfortunate that Colemak is out of the plan though :(
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 25 September 2018, 17:20:26
Please note that this is a WIP. Lots will be changed, this is more to get an idea of what the font looks like.
Confirmed changes - Alphas will be smaller. Anyways, just trying to keep everyone updated on this. It is still moving forward. :)
Again, this is is really just to get an idea of the font that we are using.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ted6p9O.png)
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 25 September 2018, 17:22:22
We have been working on the legends, and put together a quick render.
Please note that this is a WIP. Lots will be changed, this is more to get an idea of what the font looks like.
Confirmed changes - Alphas will be smaller. Anyways, just trying to keep everyone updated on this. It is still moving forward. :)
Again, this is is really just to get an idea of the font that we are using.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Ted6p9O.png)
Looking good, can't wait for more updates!
Post by: Rogue_Jellybean on Tue, 25 September 2018, 18:13:02
Post by: Etherealsound on Wed, 26 September 2018, 15:20:22
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 26 September 2018, 15:39:53
Post by: Rogue_Jellybean on Wed, 26 September 2018, 18:23:31
Yeah, I mean if the alphas look as big and derpy as that it's a no-buy from me. But the font itself is fine. Not in love with the "J" but everything else seems okay.
He said that the alphas will be smaller.
Post by: dvorcol on Sat, 29 September 2018, 12:25:51
Anyway, great work!
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 29 September 2018, 12:28:55
These will be dye sub (at least the first round), right? Can you offer an alternative legend color – for example, black – to broaden the audience? I personally want to test out your new profile, but wouldn't use the current legend color long-term. But a grey & black color scheme at work would be perfect.
Anyway, great work!
Not dyesub - doubleshot. The render wasnt a colorway, it was just to show off the font.
First colorway will be a neutral set.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 29 September 2018, 12:30:47
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 29 September 2018, 12:33:36
Diubleshot ABS, right?
Most likely. With talking to the injection molding places, they all say that ABS would be the best way to go.
Post by: dvorcol on Sat, 29 September 2018, 16:58:50
Diubleshot ABS, right?
Most likely. With talking to the injection molding places, they all say that ABS would be the best way to go.
These will be dye sub (at least the first round), right? Can you offer an alternative legend color – for example, black – to broaden the audience? I personally want to test out your new profile, but wouldn't use the current legend color long-term. But a grey & black color scheme at work would be perfect.
Anyway, great work!
Not dyesub - doubleshot. The render wasnt a colorway, it was just to show off the font.
First colorway will be a neutral set.
Double-shot ABS in a neutral colorway - all great news!
Post by: Darknight00z on Mon, 04 February 2019, 15:05:52
Post by: Mangaboy5398 on Fri, 08 March 2019, 22:10:09
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 08 March 2019, 22:36:41
Hope to have some more news in April-May.
Post by: oldcat on Sat, 09 March 2019, 00:14:23
Post by: Mangaboy5398 on Sat, 09 March 2019, 10:09:36
Definitely still in the works. :)
Hope to have some more news in April-May.
Thanks! Will be looking forward to it!
Post by: dr_unconscionable on Sat, 09 March 2019, 20:40:06
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Sat, 09 March 2019, 23:02:36
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: G1LL3Y on Sun, 17 March 2019, 20:52:45
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 18 March 2019, 06:54:32
Any chance this new profile could also incorporate a TMX stem for both Cherry and Topre?
Unfortunately not. While its a good use and fit for artisans, our main worry is splitting the stem would cause the keycaps to have structure issue with extended use.
Post by: TuCZnak on Mon, 18 March 2019, 12:39:10
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 18 March 2019, 12:54:42
Here are some updated renders (we are still working on a couple things, such as some of legend thickness). We are using Gotham Rounded as the font. Slightly modified to make sure everything can be injection molded. Here is a comparison of different profiles home row - SA, KAT, Cherry. https://imgur.com/a/jfVlPk5
This render is our idea of a full kit (including some duplicate keycaps).
(https://i.imgur.com/PHv1MkR.png)
Side profile.
(https://i.imgur.com/rICp5vO.png)
Alternate Angle
(https://i.imgur.com/yzHlIEY.png)
Full Kit Suggestions.
* We know there are some keys missing. With that said I think we can add up to 5 keycaps to try to help out with compatibility.
* I have already been asked to a 1.25 key to the home row.
* ISO support is not planned at this time, but possibly down the future.
* I have also been asked to change C row Control to maybe function. Please let me know what you all think.
* We are also aiming to do this in doubleshot POM. My manu says that this shouldnt be an issue for them.
Next Steps
* Finalize Kit
* Get complete Accurate Quote from my manufacturer
* Get 2 keycaps made - "A" and "Caps Lock" to make sure that my manu can do the quality and detail that this project needs.
Post by: dr_unconscionable on Mon, 18 March 2019, 12:59:40
Post by: crykn on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:04:04
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:06:30
Post by: Zilleon on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:07:19
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:13:06
I'm so sad we won't get Colevrak kits for this T_T
It would be just an insane amount of extra cost.
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:17:19
Post by: Woovie on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:18:36
Post by: dr_unconscionable on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:30:48
Post by: ptiede on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:33:40
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:52:05
Post by: Bubblegum on Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:59:31
Post by: romevi on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:11:43
Post by: nasp on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:15:28
Post by: xondat on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:16:45
Post by: TuCZnak on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:24:20
Looking great, I'll note my 1.25u left shift request here for anyone else as well who wants this niche key in the future.Agreed, if ISO enter won't be a thing then at least do the split left shift, that one extra key is way more important for all the European layouts.
Post by: mwahlig on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:28:10
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:42:58
Oof those renders look great. No Planck support tho :(
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been talking to Cole from Woodkeys. We are going to add a C row "Up" and 2 C Row blanks to the kit.
Post by: KaosJ on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:43:30
Anyway i would actually prefer arrows instead of "down, left..."
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 18 March 2019, 14:50:16
What colors will be available? (please not the showed colors in the render).
Anyway i would actually prefer arrows instead of "down, left..."
Colors are still a ways away from being decided, but the first colorway will be more soft than loud.
We are just going to use text based for all keycaps, and not use any type of icons right now.
Post by: oldcat on Mon, 18 March 2019, 15:39:09
Post by: wrongshoe on Mon, 18 March 2019, 15:41:37
How well does POM take colors compared to ABS and PBT?
Post by: The_Royal on Mon, 18 March 2019, 16:19:41
Excited about this.
How well does POM take colors compared to ABS and PBT?
Im not 100% sure, but I think some Gateron Stems, maybe all Cherry-MX stems, are made of a type of POM.
So If you think about all the nice a vibrant, as well as muted, colors we have in our switches, I would say POM takes color very well.
That is, to say, if my previous statement is correct. :)
Post by: KaosJ on Mon, 18 March 2019, 16:28:02
What colors will be available? (please not the showed colors in the render).
Anyway i would actually prefer arrows instead of "down, left..."
Colors are still a ways away from being decided, but the first colorway will be more soft than loud.
We are just going to use text based for all keycaps, and not use any type of icons right now.
Make sense.
Regarding colors, please just don't go for the white alphas and grey mods. Excited as well!
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 18 March 2019, 16:32:25
How does POM wear over the long haul? ABS type shininess or...?
From what I’ve read, POM does not shine or wear nearly as quick as ABS.
Excited about this.
How well does POM take colors compared to ABS and PBT?
Im not 100% sure, but I think some Gateron Stems, maybe all Cherry-MX stems, are made of a type of POM.
So If you think about all the nice a vibrant, as well as muted, colors we have in our switches, I would say POM takes color very well.
That is, to say, if my previous statement is correct. :)
That is correct! POM should be able to do a variety of colors with no issues.
Post by: fer.real on Mon, 18 March 2019, 16:35:06
Post by: EightDiagram on Mon, 18 March 2019, 16:47:24
Post by: macclack on Mon, 18 March 2019, 18:04:22
Post by: dallman5 on Mon, 18 March 2019, 21:10:20
Any chance for a row B or C 'Up' key? I think MT3 offered something similar and I know the Realforce TKLs are like this since it makes the arrow cluster more comfortable on a TKL and/or full-size.
Post by: sevenseacat on Mon, 18 March 2019, 22:16:24
Blanks would fit the bill so we could use the profile, just sayin' ;)
Post by: mwahlig on Mon, 18 March 2019, 23:18:56
Oof those renders look great. No Planck support tho :(
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been talking to Cole from Woodkeys. We are going to add a C row "Up" and 2 C Row blanks to the kit.
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
Post by: the_high_5 on Mon, 18 March 2019, 23:59:15
Probably a long shot, but would a 40s child kit be possible?
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Tue, 19 March 2019, 03:02:32
Full Kit Suggestions.
* We know there are some keys missing. With that said I think we can add up to 5 keycaps to try to help out with compatibility.
* I have already been asked to a 1.25 key to the home row.
* ISO support is not planned at this time, but possibly down the future.
* I have also been asked to change C row Control to maybe function. Please let me know what you all think.
* We are also aiming to do this in doubleshot POM. My manu says that this shouldnt be an issue for them.
- I think the current kit is fine for the first run. But in the future, please add 2.25u, 2.75u, 1.25u (blank, -convex- C row) keys for split-spacebar. :D
-
-
- please leave C row Control for HHKB layout :-[ (I really don't know how many people would use C row Function)
- I have never touched a POM set before, I'm eager to try this set. ;D
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 19 March 2019, 06:13:13
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
I need to figure out exactly how many keys need to be added for Ortho support. I think it could be a worth while kit add on, especially when I look at DSA Milkshake Ortho kits sold.
Give me some time to figure out how many keycaps are needed for Ortho.
Post by: Marutks on Tue, 19 March 2019, 07:34:09
Please leave Control key on row C. It is very popular location for Control key.
When this set will be available?
Post by: Theswetiyeti on Tue, 19 March 2019, 09:10:58
Post by: iliketimex on Tue, 19 March 2019, 09:22:16
So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.
I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.
Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.
Post by: euphxenos on Tue, 19 March 2019, 14:13:44
Post by: e11i0t23 on Tue, 19 March 2019, 17:14:04
Post by: Damage on Tue, 19 March 2019, 20:02:50
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 20 March 2019, 07:12:45
My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.
So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.
I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.
Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.
Thats definitely the goal!
I'd like to have a Function key in the C row to replace Caps Lock, but I wouldn't do that by removing Control. Right now you have centered and staggered versions of both "CAPS LOCK" and "CTRL". I'd keep both centered and staggered "CAPS LOCK", and have the alternatives be centered "CONTROL" and "FUNCTION" (so lose the staggered ctrl, change the centered ctrl's legend to not be abbreviated, since it no longer needs to match the truncated one on the staggered key, and add a centered function). Then you have all three legends available, and still have a staggered cap for boards that need it.
I like this idea, and I think thats a good change.
This is looking really good. Curious about POM. Why choose that, and what would one expect from it vs. ABS or PBT?
POM gives you a different feeling than the other plastics do, along with a different sound.
Post by: holtenc on Wed, 20 March 2019, 07:54:10
Looks like it's pretty much got the right sizes on other rows. 
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 20 March 2019, 09:24:59
1.25u row D for those 40% users.
:) What should the legend say for the 1.25 key? Seems like its doable.
Post by: nuclear_wizard on Wed, 20 March 2019, 09:37:01
Post by: holtenc on Wed, 20 March 2019, 09:48:21
SHIF T.1.25u row D for those 40% users.
:) What should the legend say for the 1.25 key? Seems like its doable.
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 20 March 2019, 10:13:17
Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?
On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.
6.5 for compatibility for Razer.
Post by: nuclear_wizard on Wed, 20 March 2019, 10:59:33
Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?
On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.
6.5 for compatibility for Razer.
Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?
Post by: mwahlig on Wed, 20 March 2019, 19:54:26
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
I need to figure out exactly how many keys need to be added for Ortho support. I think it could be a worth while kit add on, especially when I look at DSA Milkshake Ortho kits sold.
Give me some time to figure out how many keycaps are needed for Ortho.
Sounds great, thanks!
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 20 March 2019, 21:28:09
Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?
On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.
6.5 for compatibility for Razer.
Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?
Yes. There really isn’t any custom keycaps that are compatible with Razer, and it’s definitely one of the biggest keyboard markets. Definitely worth investing for the 1 space bar.
Post by: nu_types on Wed, 20 March 2019, 21:36:52
Post by: coffeeshopcoder on Thu, 21 March 2019, 01:59:47
is the surface area of the tops smaller or larger compared to SA and MT3 ?
Post by: dvorcol on Thu, 21 March 2019, 14:00:14
how would this compare to MT3 ?
is the surface area of the tops smaller or larger compared to SA and MT3 ?
A detailed comparison with other popular profiles would be really interesting. Like what zFrontier did for their KAT (http://www.zfrontier.com/post/detail/7625) and KAM (uniform KAT) (https://www.zfrontier.com/post/detail/7214) profiles. Their KAM page has a top view comparing home row surface dimensions with DSA's (https://i.imgur.com/h57H270.png), while their KAT page has several images comparing sculpted profile with SA and Cherry.
Post by: a_ak57 on Thu, 21 March 2019, 19:25:23
Post by: ihalatch on Thu, 21 March 2019, 19:30:12
I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now. I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.
+1
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 21 March 2019, 21:15:13
I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now. I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.
The design of the actual keycaps is finished. We went through a couple renditions of 3D printed keycaps, and these feel really nice.
We brought the protos to several meetups, and really only heard positive feedback about the cup, and sculpt.
Post by: tectonicplate on Thu, 21 March 2019, 22:14:01
My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.
So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.
I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.
Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.
Thats definitely the goal!
I agree, typographic refinement is often overlooked by many when it comes to legends. And if only one change could be made, please don't use to vastly overweight asterisk in the numrow or numpad… it crushes my soul every time. Looking forward to see where this goes. Thanks!
Post by: Tefrem34 on Wed, 03 April 2019, 21:22:41
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 05 April 2019, 16:33:30
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.
(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
Post by: Ensaum on Fri, 05 April 2019, 16:43:12
Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
Are you still taking input on the coloway? I'd personally be elated to have a Honeywell option.
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 05 April 2019, 16:44:24
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 05 April 2019, 17:02:00
Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
Are you still taking input on the coloway? I'd personally be elated to have a Honeywell option.
Colorways aren’t really being thought about just yet.
Post by: Hokabuki on Fri, 05 April 2019, 22:56:44
Post by: KevinSanToast on Fri, 05 April 2019, 23:01:51
Post by: TuCZnak on Sat, 06 April 2019, 02:05:10
If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.
<insert obligatory ISO comment here>
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 06 April 2019, 06:54:32
I supposed ergodox support would be out of scope at this moment, huh.
Yea, thats a little intense to get done.
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 06 April 2019, 06:58:50
Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?Hold on a minute. Razer BlackWidow and Huntsman have 6u space bars. They are not 6.5u.
There are however several other gaming brands that do use 6.5u space bars. For instance, Corsair.
Razer BlackWidow and other modern keyboards have a centred stem.
Some older Cherry keyboards in the G80 series have an off-centred stem (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar_dimensions#6_units_.28114mm_wide.2C_3_keymounts.2C_57mm_and_38mm_apart.29) however. It should be possible to support both: The Cherry-compatible key stem will clear the centred switch on the BlackWidow.
Some (if not all) Razer keyboards with 6u do have the stabiliser stems farther apart than others though. I am not sure about the Huntsman's measurements, but I know that at least older Razer BlackWidow do have stabiliser stems wider apart but they do use Costar-style stabilisers, so it might not matter that much.
While Razer BlackWidow is a very popular keyboard, I think that is primarily because of availability: as it has been widely available in retail, and an entry into mechanical keyboards for many people. Once they are in, they may want to buy a better one. Putting high-quality keycaps on a Razer keyboard (with wide stabilisers) would be like putting lipstick on a pig IMHO.
If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.When the Space Bar is 6u then there are two 1u modifier keys in-between right Alt and right Control.
These are often Windows+Menu, Windows+Fn, Fn+Menu or Windows+Compose.
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 06 April 2019, 09:10:56
Hold on a minute. Razer BlackWidow and Huntsman have 6u space bars. They are not 6.5u.
There are however several other gaming brands that do use 6.5u space bars. For instance, Corsair.
Razer BlackWidow and other modern keyboards have a centred stem.
Some older Cherry keyboards in the G80 series have an off-centred stem (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar_dimensions#6_units_.28114mm_wide.2C_3_keymounts.2C_57mm_and_38mm_apart.29) however. It should be possible to support both: The Cherry-compatible key stem will clear the centred switch on the BlackWidow.
Some (if not all) Razer keyboards with 6u do have the stabiliser stems farther apart than others though. I am not sure about the Huntsman's measurements, but I know that at least older Razer BlackWidow do have stabiliser stems wider apart but they do use Costar-style stabilisers, so it might not matter that much.
While Razer BlackWidow is a very popular keyboard, I think that is primarily because of availability: as it has been widely available in retail, and an entry into mechanical keyboards for many people. Once they are in, they may want to buy a better one. Putting high-quality keycaps on a Razer keyboard (with wide stabilisers) would be like putting lipstick on a pig IMHO.If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.When the Space Bar is 6u then there are two 1u modifier keys in-between right Alt and right Control.
These are often Windows+Menu, Windows+Fn, Fn+Menu or Windows+Compose.
Thanks for the clarification on the spacebar. I will double check out mounts and make sure we are good to go on that front.
As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 06 April 2019, 09:37:39
As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.If you're not taking any more input, then why the hell do you ask!?
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 06 April 2019, 10:02:23
As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.If you're not taking any more input, then why the hell do you ask!?
I’m not sure what’s with the hostility, but taking input does not mean automatically changing the kit.
I have to weigh out the pros and cons of adding additional keycaps. This kit will still work on those keyboards, and that’s the important part.
Post by: a_ak57 on Sat, 06 April 2019, 17:48:31
Post by: moh18one on Sat, 06 April 2019, 18:55:48
Post by: jazzjarred on Sun, 07 April 2019, 06:22:44
Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.
Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/17e8oPj.png)
For ortho support 2x1u + 1x2u spaces are pretty standard should be included:
https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-mito-mt3-godspeed-custom-keycap-set/FP/A3ZZDXXgTZCxHJghGr9r_6%20-%20apollo%20ortho.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&bg=f0f0f0&dpr=2
Post by: Tefrem34 on Sun, 07 April 2019, 16:18:46
Thanks.
Post by: scoopbb on Mon, 08 April 2019, 16:26:23
Post by: sayingandparsing on Mon, 08 April 2019, 16:52:43
Post by: jortzii on Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:55:39
I’d definitely be in for at least one kit, maybe more if there’s a sound test that really wows
Post by: SargentRedbeard on Thu, 11 April 2019, 10:44:18
Post by: coffeeshopcoder on Thu, 11 April 2019, 12:35:24
How thick are the caps planned to be? It would be nice to have more sets as thick as SA, or even more so, similar to Devlins. While that would increase the material price, thick caps tend to produce a much deeper thock.
Yes thicker like Devlin would be nice !
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 15 May 2019, 08:53:23
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
Post by: iaman on Wed, 15 May 2019, 09:11:07
Latest updateExciting!!!!
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 15 May 2019, 09:22:41
Latest update
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
hmm... why didn't you have a space bar or enter key produced to check for warping? I hope all goes well with the test run. Always happy to see more options available for our hobby :)
Post by: mgsickler on Wed, 15 May 2019, 09:25:13
Latest update
We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.
hmm... why didn't you have a space bar or enter key produced to check for warping? I hope all goes well with the test run. Always happy to see more options available for our hobby :)
Warping isnt as much of an issue (or as difficult to control) as making sure that legends are accurate and uniform.
Post by: aslanxdeft on Wed, 15 May 2019, 13:49:00
Post by: coffeeshopcoder on Wed, 15 May 2019, 14:50:55
Would appreciate shots that show the thickness of the caps when the samples arrive !
Post by: mgsickler on Thu, 16 May 2019, 07:18:39
looking good !
Would appreciate shots that show the thickness of the caps when the samples arrive !
Definitely will take some good shots once they arrive. Most likely looking at 10-12 weeks out.
Post by: ccmpbll on Thu, 16 May 2019, 23:03:25
Post by: Zev on Thu, 23 May 2019, 12:22:57
Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.
Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?
Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!
I need to figure out exactly how many keys need to be added for Ortho support. I think it could be a worth while kit add on, especially when I look at DSA Milkshake Ortho kits sold.
EDIT: Just saw the updated kit design, looks amazing!!! I will buy in for sure, regardless of colorway. The profile looks really neat and I am interested in seeing what POM feels like in a keyset (maybe paired with Cream switches and a POM plate...)
Give me some time to figure out how many keycaps are needed for Ortho.
This would be amazing. I love this profile and will make Ortho coverage work even with wonky keys, but better coverage you can work into the main kit or as a separate addon kit would be amazing!
Post by: OkKarma on Thu, 23 May 2019, 14:42:38
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 23 May 2019, 18:00:29
Post by: dvorcol on Thu, 23 May 2019, 18:58:04
From the side the profile looks a bit wonky 😖
NovelPro's profile (top) is very similar to SA's (bottom):
(https://i.imgur.com/rICp5vO.png)
(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/img_comment/P589cTswShGTTMJ8XnSU_n112343.PNG)
Post by: lewisflude on Mon, 08 July 2019, 08:44:38
Post by: dededecline on Tue, 09 July 2019, 12:04:17
This set looks amazing and I can’t wait to get my hands on it. Really really looking forward to some POM caps! Great job!
wait, where did you see POM?
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 09 July 2019, 12:17:54
wait, where did you see POM?
It will be doubleshot POM. :)
Update, manufacturer has confirmed the tooling design and just received the molds to start cutting into.
Post by: PikaJoyce on Tue, 09 July 2019, 12:54:04
Great news! Super excited to see photos when that's done!wait, where did you see POM?
It will be doubleshot POM. :)
Update, manufacturer has confirmed the tooling design and just received the molds to start cutting into.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 09 July 2019, 15:02:34
Post by: Surefoot on Wed, 10 July 2019, 06:27:42
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 09 August 2019, 15:09:13
(https://i.imgur.com/n0kAqK9.png)
Post by: Tequila_Heineken on Fri, 09 August 2019, 15:16:57
Post by: Surefoot on Sat, 10 August 2019, 03:04:03
Post by: donkey on Sat, 10 August 2019, 03:29:27
Post by: jmg123 on Sat, 10 August 2019, 04:17:48
ISOShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/n0kAqK9.png)
Is there going to be the ‘@ key as well? Then all my uk ortho needs are covered 😃
Post by: teh_pengers on Mon, 13 April 2020, 16:23:41
Post by: Shutter_Shock on Mon, 13 April 2020, 19:51:36
Any updates on this project?
What a throwback. I forgot this was a thing.
Post by: AristideTorchia on Sat, 08 August 2020, 13:45:24
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 08 August 2020, 13:48:06
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.
Post by: Anthixious on Sat, 08 August 2020, 16:55:09
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.
Will be watching from here on out with how this turns out! Liking the profile so far :)
Post by: AristideTorchia on Sun, 09 August 2020, 11:53:24
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.
Will be watching from here on out with how this turns out! Liking the profile so far :)
That's a massive bummer but I understand, of course. I hope this will come to fruition; the irony of topre is that they're by far the nicest to type on, with absolutely ugliest colour/font designs across the board of all MKs.
Would you be able to give even a a slightest time approximation of your plans in regards to those cream keys from your OP? Is it months or years we're talking about?
Best,
M
Post by: AristideTorchia on Sun, 09 August 2020, 12:02:49
I have been a little silent on this, but am still working away.
Here is a picture with some different prototypes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/k6IwMCN.jpg)
The first row is the latest prototype. The second row is the first. The third is dev tty. The last is topre hipro.
I have a few more tweaks to make the set, but it is coming along really nice. I am hoping to have a tkl keyboard proto by the end of June or so.
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.
Post by: Surefoot on Sun, 09 August 2020, 13:43:23
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.This is MT3 profile, DEV/TTY set, not Topre.
Post by: beigeandbrown on Sun, 09 August 2020, 20:01:35
Post by: AristideTorchia on Mon, 10 August 2020, 09:31:29
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.This is MT3 profile, DEV/TTY set, not Topre.
I see. Pardon the ignorance, perhaps I can learn something from this.
So an MT3 is a type of mount/stem as far as I understand and so won't fit a HHKB topre stem.
What does the DEV/TTY set stand for?
thanks for clarifying.
Post by: AristideTorchia on Mon, 10 August 2020, 09:36:55
My personal wish is something similar to mt3/hipro, but with the quality and smooth texture of abs doubleshot SP SA. Perhaps a slight bit lower than those mentioned profiles.
That's very cool beigeandbrown, but that's nothing. Eggshell, with Romalian type... what do you think?
Post by: NTN on Mon, 10 August 2020, 09:42:42
I hope the OP can read this. Please please consider this. This is the reason why Cherry profile feels so much comfortable to type on and rarely make us mis-typing. Cherry profile had serious ergonomic study by engineers, so again, please consider this idea. Or this would be another shortended SA profile without decent research of ergonomic, 1 example is OSA.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FGMNSj7.png)
I have been working on this for a bit. It is a superelliptical step sculpture (SSS) profile, ala Microswitch & IBM Beam Spring. It is designed to accomodate triple shot abs legends at 1.6mm uniform thickness. The dish is 1mm deep. It uses a level row 4 which is roughly 7mm in height, and a 6-degree R3 which is slightly lower than cherry. R5 is .05mm higher than cherry. The level row is the lowest that I know of (DSA is 8mm) and can be used to make a uniform set as well. The step between rows is a consistent 15-degrees, which (IMO) is ideal.
I am still in the process of finishing the models. If you are interested in collaborating, I would be open to it.
I like this one, however i would change the last 2 rows, the difference in height (which is present on cherry) doesn't make any sense on current angles of modern keyboards imho.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WippovA.png)
IMO there does need to be a small difference in height, otherwise it becomes too similar to a uniform profile. Although this is very much a matter of personal preference.
One thing I would change is to make the height difference more consistent between rows. Currently there's a huge step down from R4 to R5, while there's pretty much no step between R0 and R1.
The diagram shows what I mean. Cherry profile does have a reasonably consistent step size between rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OnFz0yg.png)
Post by: iaman on Mon, 10 August 2020, 09:53:38
Pardon for confusion, the keys I'm referring to are here; third row, off-white cream with dark legends.This is MT3 profile, DEV/TTY set, not Topre.
I see. Pardon the ignorance, perhaps I can learn something from this.
So an MT3 is a type of mount/stem as far as I understand and so won't fit a HHKB topre stem.
What does the DEV/TTY set stand for?
thanks for clarifying.
/dev/tty is just the name of the set (matt30 has a pretty solid explanation for the set/name here (https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/)). MT3 is a profile, like this or GMK or SA or whatever, and it is specifically a profile designed with stems to mount on MX-style switches (not Topre-style, unless they have sliders to provide the mounting for them). /dev/tty has been around for a few years and pops back up on Drop regularly; they own the MT3 profile so they're the only seller of the set.
Post by: AristideTorchia on Mon, 10 August 2020, 10:09:11
It's an absolute tragedy that no good-looking keys are made for topre.
I've searched wide across the web and topre keys available for purchase are simply unmatched in their ugliness and lack of refinement. They're abysmal.
I so wish someone would produce something as nice as the aforementioned MT3 DEV/TTY for a topre mount.
Post by: supernova on Mon, 10 August 2020, 11:16:49
通过我的 OnePlus 7 Pro 上的 Tapatalk发言
Post by: Muchacho on Tue, 11 August 2020, 04:13:47
Oh my dear God... Are you still working on this? The cream keys with dark prints are the prettiest topre keys I've ever seen and exactly what I was looking for: super sleek, minimal and typewriter-like, with a gorgeous font.
Could you please drop us a line on whether this has any chance of coming out?
Thx
Sorry for the lack of updates here. After our first manufacturer (here in the USA) burned us pretty bad, we have put this on the back burner. It is NOT dead, but we have delayed it to work on some other projects as of now.
Can you please update the original post and specify this project is asleep ?
Post by: teh_pengers on Sat, 24 October 2020, 14:33:00