CM Storm Novatouch

[Prime Time]

Novatouch don't have any LED at all. And personally I wish it has one at least for capslock indicated.



I'm one of those who bottom out every keystroke on my Topre keyboard. But on my Cherry MX Blue / Red I never ever bottom out on it. But I do love the sound and the feel of bottom out on my Novatouch.

[Hypersphere]

@sujambanvfx: My Novatouch does not have LEDS on either the CapsLock or NumLock.

@Polymer: Unfortunately, I have not made audio recordings of my Novatouch. However, I find that the stabilized keys have some stabilizer rattle, and the spacebar has quite a bit of return-stroke "clack". In addition, some of the regular keys (on mine, the 9, F. K, ;, and B keys) have a rattle -- it seems there is more "play" in these keys between the slider and switch mount than in the keys without the rattle.

Bear in mind that until recently my daily driver was an IBM XT. Now that I am making comparisons among various Topre-switch keyboards, I tend to notice any noises that rise above the relatively quiet background.

[jameslr]

Here's an audio clip of Novatouch with Leopold thick PBT caps.

[deci]

Here's an audio clip of Novatouch with Leopold thick PBT caps.

mmmm that sounds deliciously deep to me 

[Hypersphere]

@jamesir: Thanks for posting the audio file. To me, it doesn't sound anything like any of my Topre-switch keyboards (1 x Leopold FC660C, 4 x HHKB Pro 2, 2 x RF 87u 55g, and 1 x Novatouch). Your recording sounds very bass-rich. Of all my Topre-switch boards, to my ear, the Novatouch sounds the most treble rather than the most bass. I must have very different conditions from yours in my office.

[Polymer]

Here's an audio clip of Novatouch with Leopold thick PBT caps.

Is that with or without the o-rings?  Sounds a lot like a RF but nothing like other recordings..Thanks for that though!!

[deci]

Honestly though, the case is going to make a big difference when it comes to sound... and I'm looking forward to swapping this out to a custom case as soon as possible.

Wonder if it fits the same after market TKL cases that a QFR does?

[tjcaustin]

Honestly though, the case is going to make a big difference when it comes to sound... and I'm looking forward to swapping this out to a custom case as soon as possible.

Wonder if it fits the same after market TKL cases that a QFR does?

Nope, it's micro usb vs mini and the plug is in a different spot.

[deci]

Honestly though, the case is going to make a big difference when it comes to sound... and I'm looking forward to swapping this out to a custom case as soon as possible.

Wonder if it fits the same after market TKL cases that a QFR does?

Nope, it's micro usb vs mini and the plug is in a different spot.

Hmmm but if the pcb fits and there is enough room, can it be modified to work?

[Prime Time]

Here are my keyboards sound comparison video that include the Novatouch with it original keycaps compare to many other Cherry MX switches and rubber dome.


And below are list of keyboards in my video.

Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 2014 with Razer (Kailh) Green switches.

Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 3000 regular rubber dome.

CM Storm Novatouch with Topre switches (45g).

Ducky Premier DK9008P with Cherry MX Red switches.

CM Storm QuickFire Ultimate witch Cherry MX Blue switches.

Logitech K100 rubber dome keyboard.

Ducky Premier DK9008P with Cherry MX Blue switches.

CM Storm Trigger with Cherry MX Black switches.

[jameslr]

Here's an audio clip of Novatouch with Leopold thick PBT caps.

Is that with or without the o-rings?  Sounds a lot like a RF but nothing like other recordings..Thanks for that though!!

Without O-Rings. No problem!

[jameslr]

@jamesir: Thanks for posting the audio file. To me, it doesn't sound anything like any of my Topre-switch keyboards (1 x Leopold FC660C, 4 x HHKB Pro 2, 2 x RF 87u 55g, and 1 x Novatouch). Your recording sounds very bass-rich. Of all my Topre-switch boards, to my ear, the Novatouch sounds the most treble rather than the most bass. I must have very different conditions from yours in my office.

Here's a comparison file that has both the Novatouch and the Realforce in the same office using the same microphone.

[LechnerDE]

Just read the whole thread.

Sooner or later I will definitely buy one, but I guess I will wait for the second generation or a good sale.

Interesting though how opionions vary in the reviews

[Polymer]

@jamesir: Thanks for posting the audio file. To me, it doesn't sound anything like any of my Topre-switch keyboards (1 x Leopold FC660C, 4 x HHKB Pro 2, 2 x RF 87u 55g, and 1 x Novatouch). Your recording sounds very bass-rich. Of all my Topre-switch boards, to my ear, the Novatouch sounds the most treble rather than the most bass. I must have very different conditions from yours in my office.

Here's a comparison file that has both the Novatouch and the Realforce in the same office using the same microphone.

Thanks for that....definitely had a deeper sound than some of the other ones..but still a bit tinky compared to the RF..still, not too bad...

Just waiting to see how all these keycaps end up working out...

[deci]

a comparison file that has both the Novatouch and the Realforce in the same office using the same microphone.

wow that rf55 sounds good. thanks for this comparison!

how do you like the way it feels? is the 55g really that much better?

[Hypersphere]

@jamesir: Thanks for posting the audio file. To me, it doesn't sound anything like any of my Topre-switch keyboards (1 x Leopold FC660C, 4 x HHKB Pro 2, 2 x RF 87u 55g, and 1 x Novatouch). Your recording sounds very bass-rich. Of all my Topre-switch boards, to my ear, the Novatouch sounds the most treble rather than the most bass. I must have very different conditions from yours in my office.

Here's a comparison file that has both the Novatouch and the Realforce in the same office using the same microphone.

Thanks. It is helpful to have back-to-back recordings of the RF87u 55g and CM Novatouch using the same recording conditions.

Did you have the microphone extremely close to the keyboard or even touching the desk? There is much more base response in both recordings than I hear when actually using each of these keyboards.

From the recordings, it seems that the Novatouch has a higher pitch than the RF on most keystrokes, and I can pick up the stabilizer rattle in the Novatouch.

Regarding the Novatouch with and without O-rings, which do you prefer? I am still undecided on this. However, back when I used Cherry mx keyboards, I initially outfitted them with O-rings (blue, red, and black), but I eventually removed the O-rings from all of them to get back to the "raw" typing experience of each keyboard.

[jameslr]

@jamesir: Thanks for posting the audio file. To me, it doesn't sound anything like any of my Topre-switch keyboards (1 x Leopold FC660C, 4 x HHKB Pro 2, 2 x RF 87u 55g, and 1 x Novatouch). Your recording sounds very bass-rich. Of all my Topre-switch boards, to my ear, the Novatouch sounds the most treble rather than the most bass. I must have very different conditions from yours in my office.

Here's a comparison file that has both the Novatouch and the Realforce in the same office using the same microphone.

Thanks. It is helpful to have back-to-back recordings of the RF87u 55g and CM Novatouch using the same recording conditions.

Did you have the microphone extremely close to the keyboard or even touching the desk? There is much more base response in both recordings than I hear when actually using each of these keyboards.

From the recordings, it seems that the Novatouch has a higher pitch than the RF on most keystrokes, and I can pick up the stabilizer rattle in the Novatouch.

Regarding the Novatouch with and without O-rings, which do you prefer? I am still undecided on this. However, back when I used Cherry mx keyboards, I initially outfitted them with O-rings (blue, red, and black), but I eventually removed the O-rings from all of them to get back to the "raw" typing experience of each keyboard.

The mic (Blue Yeti w/ condenser set at cardioid) was closer to the Realforce than the Novatouch. I believe much of the bass resonance is due to the desk. The desk is wood and seems to reverb quite a bit of the "thock" on each stroke. The Novatouch is on a keyboard tray while the Realforce is on the desk above it. The mic also sits directly on the desk on top of a mouse pad. The only way I could isolate it would be to put each board on top of a thick rubber mat, but I don't have anything like that at this time. It's more noticeable on the mic than it is in person. I haven't tried the Novatouch with O-Rings. I may at some point, but I rather enjoy the sound and feeling of it right now. I'll admit the Realforce is still my favorite keyboard, but the Novatouch is gaining on it quickly.

I can try some new recordings with the gain turned down a bit - that might reduce some of the lower frequency dips. Not a perfect sound test as you can still hear an AC unit in the background as well. It's really just for comparison anyway.

[Hypersphere]

@jamesir: Thanks for the additional details about your recordings. Not to be picky, but in order to do a fair and valid comparison, it would be best to have each keyboard in exactly the same position and on the same surface (desk, tray, or whatever), and to have the mic positioned in exactly the same spot for each recording. Otherwise, the intrinsic sound of the keyboard could be unduly influenced by the reverberation of the desk or tray, etc.

All this reminds me that I need to equip my own setup with a decent camera (and lessons on how to use it) and microphone. These tools would be invaluable for doing reviews of products. As it stands, I can't even make a silent movie! The best I can do is potato pics with bad lighting and no sound.

[jameslr]

@jamesir: Thanks for the additional details about your recordings. Not to be picky, but in order to do a fair and valid comparison, it would be best to have each keyboard in exactly the same position and on the same surface (desk, tray, or whatever), and to have the mic positioned in exactly the same spot for each recording. Otherwise, the intrinsic sound of the keyboard could be unduly influenced by the reverberation of the desk or tray, etc.

All this reminds me that I need to equip my own setup with a decent camera (and lessons on how to use it) and microphone. These tools would be invaluable for doing reviews of products. As it stands, I can't even make a silent movie! The best I can do is potato pics with bad lighting and no sound.

Ok, here is yet another recording with the keyboards on the same surface, same distance from the mic, and roughly the same sentences typed. I distinctly press some of the stabilized keys / larger keys multiple times harder so you can hear they both have the same rattle sound. At least to my ears.

[justify]

topre switches with mx stems? mmmmmm

[Hypersphere]

@jamesir: Thanks for being so accommodating and going to so much trouble! Amazing how the two boards now sound so much alike. In my office setup, just to my unaided ears, the two boards sound very different to me.

[Polymer]

Yeah..sounds a lot like a RF....

Would love to hear a bunch of other types of keycaps on it too . 

[Carter]

U guys are awesome, can never underestimate the depth of this forum/board.

[PadawanGeek]

I got a little restless after being cooped up in bed due to a mild infection after a tooth operation, so I decided to head to the local tech mall to see if there were anything new, ended up with my second Novatouch.....and a HyperX Cloud Pro Gaming headset for good measure.

A pic of my two Novatouch, awaiting the arrival of the Bumble Bee set....

[irecresum]

[deleted post by user]

[irecresum]

I got a little restless after being cooped up in bed due to a mild infection after a tooth operation, so I decided to head to the local tech mall to see if there were anything new, ended up with my second Novatouch.....and a HyperX Cloud Pro Gaming headset for good measure.
A pic of my two Novatouch, awaiting the arrival of the Bumble Bee set....

Padawan at the rate ur going you'll have more keyboards than me. So is the feel of the novatouch as refined as the hhkb 2 or even mx reds?

[Hypersphere]

I have updated my review of the Novatouch on DT:
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html#p181850

The link was also posted on GH:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62407.msg1458461#msg1458461

One of the important new points in the review is that some of the issues I cited regarding the hybrid Topre switches are likely due to Topre rather than CM -- CM depend on Topre to deliver good switches for use in the new keyboard. It will be to everyone's advantage for Topre and CM to pull together to make the Novatouch a success. I hope that these corporate partners are able to address the problems and possibly incorporate some of the feature requests for the next release of the Novatouch. Novatouch 2.0 perhaps?

In the meantime, the current version of the Novatouch is growing on me. I am typing this post on my Novatouch.

[pbtforever]

Like you said PBTFOREVER!

They really should have spent the $10 on better keys.

Maybe they will wise up in Novatouch 2.

[LechnerDE]

Like you said PBTFOREVER!

They really should have spent the $10 on better keys.

Maybe they will wise up in Novatouch 2.

Are you talking to yourself?!

[pbtforever]

Maybe you don't understand English mofo.  You speak it?

[strict]

Maybe you don't understand English mofo.  You speak it?

[pbtforever]

[Carter]

I cant find the thread but I remember someone was asking the switch life of novatouch. It just cleared 60 Million and is headed towards 70 as we speak. Will keep everyone posted on end result

[davkol]

What does that number even mean? Is it cycle count for the capacitive part? That would be awesome, but what about domes in the long run? Available replacement parts would be great.

[bueller]

so where led indicator capslock on novatouch ? 

People use Caps Lock?

[dorkvader]

I cant find the thread but I remember someone was asking the switch life of novatouch. It just cleared 60 Million and is headed towards 70 as we speak. Will keep everyone posted on end result

What does that number even mean? Is it cycle count for the capacitive part? That would be awesome, but what about domes in the long run? Available replacement parts would be great.

Agreed. If you are just pressing on one of these keyboards (~87 keys) for 60 million presses, it's a very different experiment to cycling a single switch 60 million times. Ideally you'd cycle over a hundred switches to failure and post the center of the distribution as the "number of actuations" and also list the standard deviation from that. Another common-but-acceptable way is to cycle a much larger number of switches until a few fail early and use that to extrapolate the data set, though this is much less precice because extrapolation always requires an assumption as to the shape of the failure curve.

But who is bottoming out their topre anyway? Half the reason to get one is the actuation point is before bottomout.

Except for people using 30g Topre (which doesn't have a large enough bump), everyone...

Anyone saying they don't bottom out with their 45/55g Topre is lying or they're typing stupidly slow in a really poor way...You can lightly bottom out..but you will..that is just the nature of how it works..

The actuation before bottom out makes it feel a bit more responsive and it doesn't feel as if you have to smash the key..but everyone bottoms out on 45/55g Topre...

Sounds like to me there is still some sound coming from where the keycap mounts into the slider..it seems a bit annoying...Would like to see/hear some recordings of thick PBT on it..with and without o-rings...

Conincidentlally I do type on 30g topre and I do not bottom it out, even lightly. If you think I am lying, I invite you to come and see for yourself.

I don't think I bottomed out on the 45g topre I've tried, but I don't remember to be sure.

Sound can only come from energy, which is most often found (in a KB) where two parts move. The keycaps can't move enough on the slider to cause a sound. The reason different keycaps sound different is the same reason different cases sound different: a drastic change in the acoustic resonating properties of the system.

[CaptLock]

so where led indicator capslock on novatouch ? 

People use Caps Lock?

CaptLock does!

[HoffmanMyster]

I cant find the thread but I remember someone was asking the switch life of novatouch. It just cleared 60 Million and is headed towards 70 as we speak. Will keep everyone posted on end result

What does that number even mean? Is it cycle count for the capacitive part? That would be awesome, but what about domes in the long run? Available replacement parts would be great.

Agreed. If you are just pressing on one of these keyboards (~87 keys) for 60 million presses, it's a very different experiment to cycling a single switch 60 million times. Ideally you'd cycle over a hundred switches to failure and post the center of the distribution as the "number of actuations" and also list the standard deviation from that. Another common-but-acceptable way is to cycle a much larger number of switches until a few fail early and use that to extrapolate the data set, though this is much less precice because extrapolation always requires an assumption as to the shape of the failure curve.

Indeed.  A single sample does not give statistically significant results, so hopefully they're testing at least 30.

Although honestly, after a certain point I'm happy to just say "they last a really long time".  )

[Polymer]

Conincidentlally I do type on 30g topre and I do not bottom it out, even lightly. If you think I am lying, I invite you to come and see for yourself.

I don't think I bottomed out on the 45g topre I've tried, but I don't remember to be sure.

Again, I said 30g is possible because it doesn't create enough resistance and fall off for your fingers to need to touch bottom...but I wouldn't mind seeing it on video.

45g, you will bottom out..You might bottom out very lightly but you will....trying not to is a waste of time, energy, and more importantly, speed....

[HPE1000]

I will never understand the debates about bottoming out vs not bottoming out.    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Hypersphere]

I will never understand the debates about bottoming out vs not bottoming out.    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Same here. It seems that some people view bottoming out as a lack of finesse, absence of good technique, or a social taboo. For me, it's just the way I type -- on any keyboard. In my case, it might stem from the fact that I learned to type on a manual typewriter, and when I started using a computer, I used an IBM Model M keyboard. At the moment, I am typing on a 55g Realforce 87u (black) and bottoming out with every keystroke. I wouldn't have it any other way -- but I don't mind if others want to actuate their keys without hitting bottom.

Regarding the Novatouch, I was typing on it yesterday and noticed that it seems to have a very light touch. Although it is rated at 45g, I tend to accidentally actuate the "S" key on the Novatouch, but this doesn't seem to happen with my other 45g Topre boards, such as the Leopold FC660C or HHKB Pro 2.

[deci]

I think the only switch that I don't bottom out when I type quickly is mx black and that's only when i'm trying to type lightly.
Even on greens I bottom out.

Honestly, I like the feel of gently bottoming out the key. It feels kinda wrong not to.
I first learned how to touch type on an actual typewriter as well so maybe that's why.
I

[Carter]

I cant find the thread but I remember someone was asking the switch life of novatouch. It just cleared 60 Million and is headed towards 70 as we speak. Will keep everyone posted on end result

What does that number even mean? Is it cycle count for the capacitive part? That would be awesome, but what about domes in the long run? Available replacement parts would be great.

Agreed. If you are just pressing on one of these keyboards (~87 keys) for 60 million presses, it's a very different experiment to cycling a single switch 60 million times. Ideally you'd cycle over a hundred switches to failure and post the center of the distribution as the "number of actuations" and also list the standard deviation from that. Another common-but-acceptable way is to cycle a much larger number of switches until a few fail early and use that to extrapolate the data set, though this is much less precice because extrapolation always requires an assumption as to the shape of the failure curve.

Indeed.  A single sample does not give statistically significant results, so hopefully they're testing at least 30.

Although honestly, after a certain point I'm happy to just say "they last a really long time".  )

Running each key on a set of 25*. The longevity of the "rubber" layer, will need to be referenced from the longevity of RF boards which have been in the market for years. Internal rubber is identical.

[dorkvader]

Running each key on a set of 25*. The longevity of the "rubber" layer, will need to be referenced from the longevity of RF boards which have been in the market for years. Internal rubber is identical.

Excellent!

I wonder what will wear out first: the switch or your patience. Non-contact switches should last quite a while.

[Polymer]

Same here. It seems that some people view bottoming out as a lack of finesse, absence of good technique, or a social taboo. For me, it's just the way I type -- on any keyboard. In my case, it might stem from the fact that I learned to type on a manual typewriter, and when I started using a computer, I used an IBM Model M keyboard. At the moment, I am typing on a 55g Realforce 87u (black) and bottoming out with every keystroke. I wouldn't have it any other way -- but I don't mind if others want to actuate their keys without hitting bottom.

I don't think it is a big deal either...I just think it is funny when people say they don't bottom out on 45g/55g Topre because I know they're either lying or typing in some really stupid way just to say they don't bottom out...

[PointyFox]

My longest lasting keyboard so far is a ~12 year old cheap Dell rubber dome one.  I've had several mechanical keyboards break much sooner due to controller problems. 

[PadawanGeek]

Found my Sanctuary keyset which I'd forgotten that I had, and installed it on my second Novatouch.....



Pardon the bad lighting and piss poor shots, I truly suck at photography....

[rowdy]

Found my Sanctuary keyset which I'd forgotten that I had, and installed it on my second Novatouch.....

Show Image

Show Image

Pardon the bad lighting and piss poor shots, I truly suck at photography....

You also seem to have the space bar on the wrong way around

[bueller]

Found my Sanctuary keyset which I'd forgotten that I had, and installed it on my second Novatouch.....

Show Image

Show Image

Pardon the bad lighting and piss poor shots, I truly suck at photography....

You also seem to have the space bar on the wrong way around

It's the only way to fly!

[Elrick]

Maybe you don't understand English mofo.  You speak it?

Damn, looks like them's fighting words, now out with the spare pbt's and stare menacingly at your lcd screen  . 

Maybe you might scare away the poor fellow from this section on Geekhack  .