Rudis aka Base kit Spectacula aka Novelties Kit
Columna aka Spacebars International Kit
Numeri aka Numpad kit Armature aka Macros Kit
The Forgotten The Gladiator
Meandros
EU : Mykeyboard.eu
UK : Protozoa
US : Mechs & Co
WORLD : KBDFans
CANADA : Deskhero.ca
OCEANIA : Daily Clack
SEA : Ilumkb
KOREA : Swagkeys
JAPAN : Yushakobo
S.AMERICA : Fancy Customs
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115551.0][img width=600 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/q2J7C9q.jpg[/img][/url]
Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:About that 1.75u novelty, it's caps lock.
-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
Noted ty. I disagree regarding the red arrows though. If you can offer 4 arrow key options and 2 accent options you can afford to offer a red arrow key option.Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:About that 1.75u novelty, it's caps lock.
-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo
About red arrows, I think it's just an secondary accent so arrows are optional
Novelty caps lock has been a part of all SxM sets since the beginning.-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
I assume it's meant to be a caps lock novelty, though idk if those are popular enough to warrant inclusion in a GMK child kit
personally i'd remove the normal latin numbers from base... its a lot of keys to have redundant on, and that's going to add a lot to the price of the kit. The roman numerals are a big driver of theme.
Since you're running separate numpad, be sure to include r1 =
also the nov kit is freakin' huge. I'd consider going a little slimmer to make it more accessible. 5 enter keys and two sets of arrows is a lot.
I have to say, the set's colors hit a little too close to GMK Norse. Maybe a color comparison chart might be nice in this case to show the difference.
Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:
-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo
Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.
Here are some logistics from our previous sales :
GMK Pharaoh : We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of 2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.
The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.
b. This would mean I would be
1 . forcing F rows to be novs. Some people might just not like the numerals to be their F rows.
2. Mod colored 5-8 cant be used in traditional numrow / would not look pleasing. This would in turn mean I have to add 4 extra 5-8 alpha colored novs to make it consistent.
In total I would be removing 12 standard GMK mold keys ( F rows) while adding 4 extra novs (black) roman numerals (5-8). Hence I am not reducing any price in the kit or even if I do its negligible in my opinion.
aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet
Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.
Here are some logistics from our previous sales :
GMK Pharaoh : We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of 2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.
The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.
Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.
Here are some logistics from our previous sales :
GMK Pharaoh : We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of 2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.
The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.
I don't disagree on cutting child kits that don't make MOQ. However, this is the very reason 3/4 key exists. The guidance generally given is that sets with 500-750 MOQ should utilize 3/4 key in base, and only sets with at least 1000 MOQ should add a 40s child kit since 40s attachment rate on GMK sets tends to be a little over 10% on average. I sympathize that Pharoah and Zen Pond struggled, but given that both had 500 MOQ I don't think anyone worth listening to would have advised those child kits.
But I am completely traumatized by the support of my two good performing sets (Pharaoh and Zen Pond) from the 40s perspective.
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.Just out of curiosity, how many is "so many sets?"
2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.
Is this seriously your reason for not doing basic 40 support in base?
I'm not even going to mince words - mate that's straight up pathetic.
I've loved your previous designs, but this comment just made me lose any respect I had for you.
Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.
Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.
I don't understand a lot of the choices behind your kitting, so I'll just echo the same stuff a lot of the others have said.
3 numrows is wack.
no 40s at all or ever is such a weird stance to take when 3/4 key exists
You have the 1u 0 key, so why omit a 1u 00 key? Also missing 1u enter for numpad.
Color choices and kitting for the spacebars is an odd one. I would imagine, since most of the accents are the "Sand Accents", you would include smaller bars in those sizes; instead we get a wide selection of alice/40s bars in dark blue, and dual 3u bars in dark blue (why). Besides Type K, I don't know if there are many other boards that support dual 3u besides 40s.
Two sets of "Sand Accent" arrows, no red arrows.
Lots of.. interesting choices in kitting here.
If it weren't for the lack of 40s and strange spacebars choices, I probably would have bought this set. I really like the color combinations chosen over blue samurai and the roman numerals are pretty neat.
Good luck with the IC, hopefully there are some changes coming.
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.Just out of curiosity, how many is "so many sets?"
I assume you're referring to GMK since hitting MOQ with any other manu isn't a problem for child kits.
But which sets specifically? Because there's probably a good reason for each of them.
40's as a separate GMK kit doesn't work so great most of the time unless the designer has a focus or really good kitting advice that suits the set. Designers who don't understand 40's kitting will tend to assemble advice from several people into one (probably oversized) kit that winds up adding another 35-40% to the purchase cost.
...even still. You think 40's users don't show up, but I've got 6 sets I'm looking at right now that did just fine. Plus, I don't see any extras 40's kits sitting around in stock anywhere for any set that had to be saved by a vendor buying them out.
All this is kind of a moot point though. Like I said, GMK isn't very child kit friendly due to their cost and how their MOQ works. However, there is an easy solution. For about the price of an ISO enter, you can add a couple or three keys that give physical compat to the majority of 40's.
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?
Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?
Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.
Sorry, I meant adding them to the international package.
For example having the QEM and 4 keys seem quite boring to me. I'll make a suggestion then, later.
About control, shift enter etc, would it make more sense to make them "symbol" only... It kind of ruins the atmosphere, having english words... Not suggesting custom legends because they'll probably be super expensive.
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).
Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.
DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.
Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).
Secondly, it's not $5.
The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.
It's childish.
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).
Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.
DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.
Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).
Secondly, it's not $5.
The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.
It's childish.
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?
The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?
The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.
Ignoring that “completely different” is a significant overstatement, I think you misunderstand what I mean. The general population is going to look at the two and see the similarity, regardless of what you see on your color-corrected monitor. And they will inevitably compare their options. It would be wise to consider that your sales may be impacted by this similar set that is readily available.
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
you can't fool me zambuman
just covering a couple of things i read above
the 40s people are loud and complain a lot, but they do show up for the keys they want in GMK sets, unlike the ISO people. i think it is worth including 3-key 40s support in either the base or extension kit. it doesn't really make a difference in the price everyone will pay because of how vendors have been doing set pricing these days. it's not like 2017 where everyone was taking a 5% margin and not buying extras.
this set does look like blue samurai with roman numeral numrow, but i've seen sets that look like direct clones run without anyone saying anything so i don't think it matters anymore. clones are bad but i think this fits the bill of "different enough." if you want to keep the rome theme but avoid the clone accusations, you might get far by changing the blue to a purple. i think that would be really nice actually.
it would be good to add a normal numrow kit, or to move the roman legends into their own kit and put regular numbers in the base.
you can't fool me zambumanUpvote
This is rude. Downvote40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
you can't fool me zambuman
All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GODHmmd.jpeg)
NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER
All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GODHmmd.jpeg)
NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER
Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.
Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.
The IC is posted to get feedback on these situations. Custom colored base with extra molds cant have everything. If you feel everything is forced here, I am sorry. I am trying to make the kitting as flexible as possible at the lowest price.
Funnily enough, I have never used 40s but have never shyed away from supporting them. My other 2 kits had seperate child kits while epbt inkdrop has full 40s modifiers support. I am not trying to avoid or deliberately screw anyone here.
2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.
For a base with new molds, having everything is not a possibility. I have added the accented enters and alice bars in other kits.
Regarding numpad : As I mentioned in my other comment adding = and 00 is not a problem if it is that necessary. This is what an IC is for.
Hi, does this keyset support this board?
;DHi, does this keyset support this board?
Probably its already covered!
Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.
DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.
Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).
All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.
1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/eTXqrhl.png)
aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
you can't fool me zambuman
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
you can't fool me zambuman
All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.
NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER
At least the subtitle to this thread is appropriate :thumb:
The set looks good - I like set.
The forced novelty number row is throwing me off. I tend to pick up 40 coverage if it is offered but daily drive 60-65s. I wouldn't expect the novelty numerals to be in the base but I get why someone who designed the set would make this choice. As a non-designer - I personally think having the numberpad + 3 key support in the base kit make more sense. Nerds who like the design of the novelties will buy it anyway. Annnnnnnd I think your numerals look great.
Your current kitting choice will be polarizing. I assume that throwing down a vanilla base kit would most likely translate to a better MOQ.
Forced novelties make more sense to me the way nephlock does it. Subtle.
You have a good design but I will be an easy pass if the base set is too pricy.
If you could get this set to GB at $135 you would need a pretty substantial moq.
Good luck Dood -
I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...
But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people
And 3 deskmats. THREE
I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)
Generally speaking the 40s community will very often shout if it’s missing entirely. Bud, I want you to succeed, I hope you didn’t see my criticism as harsh, but nonetheless still criticism.I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...
But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people
And 3 deskmats. THREE
I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)
I will try to explain in more depth here.
The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!
The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.
Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.
Generally speaking the 40s community will very often shout if it’s missing entirely. Bud, I want you to succeed, I hope you didn’t see my criticism as harsh, but nonetheless still criticism.I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...
But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people
And 3 deskmats. THREE
I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)
I will try to explain in more depth here.
The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!
The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.
Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.
I entirely understand why you did the kitting like this. If it was up to me, I’d put the 3/4 basic keys required into the space kit, since you’ve committed to the vision with the alt numrow. At least you included it in base so we can see the vision (unlike cough red alert cough)
People always complain. Hey, me too, I’m able to admit that. Still, best of luck. I too hope GMK are nice to you!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
real simple guy i see what i like and i buy it
cant wait
As a numpad user, it just feels bad to pay extra for a kit that should be in base while there is a duplicate numrow.
I'm unsure of the argument for GMK sets to separate the numpad, the pricing just ends up being horrendous, so it becomes an easy decision to not buy into these sets.
This is absolutely gorgeous. The addition of an international kit is such a chef's kiss. The literal only thing I would change is to include the numpad in the base kit.
some of those novelty tolerances look sketchy also add 3 key
LOVE the novelties and desk mats! and the color combo on this is so unique without being over the top. Great job, will be watching this with much interest. GLWIC!
Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.
DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.
Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).
All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.
1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.
Sigh. Let me try to explain this simply.
1. You said that "over 95%" of people won't benefit from 3-key 40% support, and based that on sales percentages of 40s kits in your prior GMK runs.
2. I said "that extrapolation is wrong, because you can't assume that 100% of 40s users bought a 40s kit, because it was massively overpriced".
3. Then I said "look at these other sets that ran, where the percentage of buyers who bought 40s support is higher. That shows that the percentage of 40s users in the community is not, as you claimed, <5%."
4. At no point did I say "look, you should do ePBT kitting for your GMK 40s set", which is what you seem to have heard. This is purely about determination of what percentage of base kit buyers would potentially use 3-key support.
You are misinterpreting your data and falsely assuming that the percentage of users who want 40s support is equal to the percentage who bought 40s kits, which is flat out wrong.
Because you are then using that wrong conclusion to justify omitting basic 40s in base, I decided to explain to you why you are wrong in your interpretation of the data.
I dislike how there is a roman numeral num row in base kit along with the standard num row. I think it would be wise to get rid of the roman numeral one and add a numpad to the base kit.
Novelties are very nice. Best of luck with IC and GB!
Nice kit, are dark background keycaps of R1 novelties black or teal? my screen is bad so I can not distinguished
Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?Show Image(https://i.postimg.cc/N0LGLd4K/numrow.png)
Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?a. It would force the numrow to be roman numerals which some people might not like.Show Image(https://i.postimg.cc/N0LGLd4K/numrow.png)
b. There would be no flexibility of using it as F rows.
c. Macro + kit would be 5 keys less yet more expensive with the requirement of new molds.
d. The base kit price wont be reduced by much.
Ah, I see! I was mostly thinking of those who find only roman numerals too extreme, but it’s definitely true that the current kitting allows people to use those keys for F rows or macros and reduces macro kit cost.
Seems especially geared for TKL-ish users (which explains why it slipped my mind...), but I can understand some of the frustration around a lack of compatibility for any 40s use while allowing for “use what you think looks best” for others. I think keeping base kit $$$ low is important to justify buying this set with the added wait time and cost over Blue Samurai, but it’s good to hear you’re keeping all that in mind. GLWIC!
- I would like to say that I don't like 40% keyboards, and I say it because at least we can agree on something from the start :-D the caps that the 40's gang want cost as much as 7 1u keycaps. Not cheap.
- can you ask GMK to provide some color samples?
- does GMK have a complete list of the doubleshot legends which available? maybe we can use something original
- please consider removing the english writings (shift, enter etc) and keeping symbols only. English language plus roman symbols seems like some kind of very wrong cultural cross - contamination.
English words on modifiers (instead of using just symbols) plus roman numbers = bleah
No color chip = bad bad bad
You'll add 40s keys because it's your last chance to appear accomodating.
I'm not joyning this.
Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.
From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).
Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.
I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):
1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).
2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.
-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.
I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.
There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.
Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.
From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).
Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.
I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):
1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).
2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.
-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.
I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.
There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.
Bookmarking this set for sure! Only request would be to have a key with "This is Sparta" on it, like the Delete key or Enter Key :D
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?
Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.
you know he's talking about MOQ, right?This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?
Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.
Language packs are not a thing because people just don't do them. Not that one should go into this set but I think more packs should be offered if they go along with the theme or kitting. Have a set with hiragana or an anime theme? Why not offer a JIS kit? I wouldn't add it if they were new legends but if there is no up front extra cost to you, I think it can enhance the theme if done right. Personally, I hope we see more of this kind of thing in the future. Some of it is happening though. GMK Teradrive is a really good example of this. When it comes to the current kitting though, you're the designer so do what you want.
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?
Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.
Language packs are not a thing because people just don't do them. Not that one should go into this set but I think more packs should be offered if they go along with the theme or kitting. Have a set with hiragana or an anime theme? Why not offer a JIS kit? I wouldn't add it if they were new legends but if there is no up front extra cost to you, I think it can enhance the theme if done right. Personally, I hope we see more of this kind of thing in the future. Some of it is happening though. GMK Teradrive is a really good example of this. When it comes to the current kitting though, you're the designer so do what you want.
yes please
Love this set and the deskmats, must buy!
love this set, when will be a GB?
This set loooks great. Really like the combination of colors and the novelties. Looking forward for the GB.
GLWIC & GB
Any idea to add ISO-PT support for the international kit @SxM Designs? Thanks
nice colorway and badass novelties, count me in! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Have you tried traditional cherry legend placement for the Roman numerals? I think that would give it a more cohesive look.
love the colorways and the deskmats. in addition those renders are really something else!
reserved and creamedlmao
We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!
Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/2g1z6q9.jpg)
We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!
Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!
In the III century BC, Greek warlord Phyrrus almost conquered Rome.
But 'almost' makes a grave difference.
Few centuries later, the only thing left for Greek warriors was to fight in the Roman arena.
The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap from KeyRelicShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/2g1z6q9.jpg)
holy dog yep
Looks amazing!
Almost looks like the Blacksmith in Mandolorian
Sent from my ASUS_I003D using Tapatalk
We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!
Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!
In the III century BC, Greek warlord Phyrrus almost conquered Rome.
But 'almost' makes a grave difference.
Few centuries later, the only thing left for Greek warriors was to fight in the Roman arena.
The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap from KeyRelicShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/2g1z6q9.jpg)
thanks, this looks cool. how does it look mounted tho? it seems like it might interfere with the surrounding caps.
thanks, this looks cool. how does it look mounted tho? it seems like it might interfere with the surrounding caps.
How is that possible? I think the steps should be gb -> color matching -> production -> shipping, since there is chance the gb won't meet moq.Color Matching Steps
To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that
A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.
This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.
Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HhLg1hK.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/brKJlOl.png)
The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.
How is that possible? I think the steps should be gb -> color matching -> production -> shipping, since there is chance the gb won't meet moq.Color Matching Steps
To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that
A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.
This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.
Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HhLg1hK.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/brKJlOl.png)
The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.
I think this is a really good idea and could improve a lot the GMK queue if other designers did the same.Thanks!! Thats the goal :)
This is definitely interesting, are the samples you’ve sourced also ABS or do they use another material?Color Matching Steps
To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that
A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.
This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.
Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HhLg1hK.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/brKJlOl.png)
The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.
This is definitely interesting, are the samples you’ve sourced also ABS or do they use another material?Color Matching Steps
To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that
A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.
This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.
Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HhLg1hK.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/brKJlOl.png)
The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.
Either way if GMK is accommodating to this request and this works, it could simplify or speed up the colour matching procedure and it’d very beneficial for the community in the long run :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Color Matching :
This is the longest time taking process in the cycle. Matching from a paper code (in case of RAL) to plastic is really difficult and takes different iterations. Everyone is annoyed with a set taking more than a year.
This is art. My oodness... So mesmerizing that I didn't spell goodness right.
Any update on GB date??
Any update on GB date??
Just waiting on GMK. Should be very soon!!!
Looks sick would use this hundred perecnt if it came out. Like the historica aspects of it
Presenting the yvk studios X GMK Gladiator spacebar
Material : tropical rosewood & maple (infill resin)
6.25 and 7Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/CLySikw.png)
Will be available during the GB from the regional vendors.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
(✷‿✷)
Please make the blue darker than existing blue samurai at least. It is pointless to have new identical set that already available stocked up on the market.
Please make the blue darker than existing blue samurai at least. It is pointless to have new identical set that already available stocked up on the market.
What blue? Its a deep green blue while the samurai is just blue.
But I can imagine your problem. The lighting and various monitor screens would just project the color in multiple ways.
I would advice you to look at the IC from another monitor or something, since colors will vary with different monitors.
Maybe.. I will definitely get this if you do it darker. What hold me back to get samurai set is their blue seems to be bright in real. Wished you could produce darker version.
Gmk color match usually comes out brighter. I hope you aware of it. Take a look at GMK Deep Navy GB in the past..
Former GMK GBs running on KBDFANs are prohibitively high, wonder if this could happen to Gladiator too。
"The gods favor you. Red is the gods' color. You will need their help today."
Main color of the kit is blue :(
Very nice, will get and possibly for my Roman-mad younger relative, as well. Love the Keyrelic artisan, great way of showcasing it.
Looks superb. Will be in af
EU : Mykeyboard.eu (https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/category/group-buys/keycaps/gmk-gladiator_711/)
UK : Protozoa (https://protozoa.studio/products/uk-gmk-gladiator-by-sxm)
US : Mechs & Co (https://mechsandco.com/collections/current-group-buys/products/gb-gmk-gladiator)
WORLD : KBDFans (https://kbdfans.com/products/gmk-gladiator)
CANADA : Deskhero.ca (https://www.deskhero.ca/products/gmk-gladiator)
OCEANIA : Daily Clack (https://dailyclack.com/collections/group-buy-keycaps/products/gmk-gladiator)
SEA : Ilumkb (https://ilumkb.com/products/gmk-gladiator)
KOREA : Swagkeys (https://swagkeys.com/products/gb-gmk-gladiator)
JAPAN : Yushakobo (https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/3884)
S.AMERICA : Fancy Customs (https://fancycustoms.com/products/gmk-gladiator)