geekhack
geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: spremino on Tue, 08 September 2009, 17:51:36
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As it showed up in a different thread, modern keyboards have inherited a layout designed to overcome limitations of first mechanical typewriters.
However, ergonomically designed keyboards (for instance: Maltron), have not achieved much success because people look at them as "weird". Standard keyboards, more or less splitted, but still with "one way" staggered keys and rubber dome switches are considered to be hands savers.
How much "weirdness" would you get from an ergonomic keyboard? Simmetrically staggered keys (like uTron)? More keys for the thumbs? Foot pedals?
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Personally, I'd love a keyboard like a Maltron, I just wouldn't want to have to pay for it.
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Personally, I'd love a keyboard like a Maltron, I just wouldn't want to have to pay for it.
Well, a cheaper licensed replica exists, clocking at 175 USD:
http://www.teleprint.com/
However, it seems it's not currently available.
I'm adding another question: are there any issues "ve not mentioned that you'd like to fix in current standard keyboards or you would like to have in your dream keyboard?
Thanks.
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One thing that has always bugged me about those ergo split boards is they never have the middle keys from both sides of the board on both sides. Some will have y on one side and some will have it on the other. Why not have it on both? That's the reason I'll never buy one of those boards.
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My only real complaint with current keyboards is the placement of Caps Lock, so that it is too easy to hit when you just want to use shift.
I do see how a finger-length adjusted keyboard, like the Maltron, or the Kinesis Advantage would really make a comfort difference, but beyond that, I'm not really that dissatisfied with the comfort of my keyboards.
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I'd very seriously consider an HHKB with an adjustable split, similar to the adjustable Goldtouch keyboards. Optional pedals for Shift and Fn would be great, too. That might defeat some of the minimalist goals, of course, but it sure would be interesting to use.
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I see a fundamental flaw with most ergonomic keyboards; they ignore the need to use a mouse from time to time. All ergonomic attempts are ultimately futile if you've got to move your hand to the mouse every other minute, because some badly designed website or program or what have you requires you to click on something. The pointing device doesn't need to be the best pointing device in the world, but it needs to be readily accessible from the home row or your finger position.
That's why I think the Datahand is paramount. I've never used one, but I think I'd like it for the integrated pointing device alone. Ergo keyboards without pointing devices are ultimately stuck in the early 80s where there was no need for a pointing device. Heck, all keyboards without pointing devices are ultimately stuck in the 80s, and no fancy screen will remedy that.
If we swiftly ignore this issue, I think I'd fancy the µtron. Webwit needs to write a proper review, but from what I've read, it seems to be a "no hand movement" design, which is the only sensible thing to do. I've always been concerned by the large amounts of hand movement required for standard keyboards, especially with small hands.
Oh, and it absolutely needs spherical concave keys, because they're made of pure win.
-huha
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I'd probably go for a Maltron were I to get an "ergonomic keyboard". I'm down to only using the mouse for clicking links in the browser now, anyway. I can do that from the keyboard, sure, but it's still a bit of a hassle. I might look for some opera version of vimperator some day, though, the built in stuff is decent but not great.
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I'm down to only using the mouse for clicking links in the browser now, anyway. I can do that from the keyboard, sure, but it's still a bit of a hassle. I might look for some opera version of vimperator some day, though, the built in stuff is decent but not great.
Firefox allows pressing ' to activate links search. Maybe Opera provides a similar functionality.
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I'd probably go for a Maltron were I to get an "ergonomic keyboard". I'm down to only using the mouse for clicking links in the browser now, anyway. I can do that from the keyboard, sure, but it's still a bit of a hassle. I might look for some opera version of vimperator some day, though, the built in stuff is decent but not great.
What about "Vimperator for Opera (http://my.opera.com/Blazeix/blog/vimperator-for-opera)" and "Improved hit a hint bookmarklet with your keybind (http://my.opera.com/edvakf/blog/2008/10/21/improved-hit-a-hint-bookmarklet-with-your-keybind)"?
Didn't try them though, and I'm not sure you can make a Colemak layout should you use it.
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Firefox allows pressing ' to activate links search. Maybe Opera provides a similar functionality.
Yeah, "," then search term. But like I said, it's not optimal.
What about "Vimperator for Opera (http://my.opera.com/Blazeix/blog/vimperator-for-opera)" and "Improved hit a hint bookmarklet with your keybind (http://my.opera.com/edvakf/blog/2008/10/21/improved-hit-a-hint-bookmarklet-with-your-keybind)"?
Didn't try them though, and I'm not sure you can make a Colemak layout should you use it.
Yeah, I haven't actually looked into it yet, I've only been thinking about looking into it. But yeah, that probably looks pretty much spot on.
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I see a fundamental flaw with most ergonomic keyboards; they ignore the need to use a mouse from time to time.
And they royally suck if what you do requires your hand to be on a mouse very often. The reason why I ditched my Microsoft Ergo Keyboard that I actually quite liked was because it brought more strain rather than less because when I'm not programming, I often am doing graphic design work or some other kind of work in which I needed my left hand on the keyboard to activate macros and my right hand to position the mouse.
I fould myself "winging" my left shoulder out so I could manipulate a mouse and use the keyboard simultaneously. After that got very uncomfortable, I found myself rotating the keyboard so I could comfortably put my left hand on the left side and of course the problem there was that it became a real pain in the ass whenever I needed to type something real quick and get back to working on some graphics.
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i would consider an ergonomic keyboard if it had mechanical switches, a standard ANSI QWERTY layout*, a number pad, and all of the following keys duplicated on both hands:
y, h, n, t, g, v, 6, 7, spacebar, F5
i don't actually hit all those keys using both hands but it's the only way to be sure. whenever i have the misfortune of landing on a coworker's split keyboard i constantly find my fingers running into the case when they expect a key.
[size=-3]*see my avatar for correct backspace/backslash/enter. all others summarily rejected[/size]
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I do agree that the switch from and to mouse seems to be a frequent cause of RSI. It was for me, and also the way I rested my hand (wrongly) on the mouse. I also do agree that an integrated mouse makes an ergo board so much better. I no longer have RSI.
Indeed, it could be the mouse itself. I've bought a trackball (Logitech Marble, to use with my left hand) and it makes much difference: when I have to use a mouse at a coworker's workstation, I feel the strain. I've also learned a bunch of keyboard shortcuts to reach for the mouse lesser and lesser.
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i would consider an ergonomic keyboard if it had mechanical switches, a standard ANSI QWERTY layout*, a number pad, and all of the following keys duplicated on both hands:
y, h, n, t, g, v, 6, 7, spacebar, F5
i don't actually hit all those keys using both hands but it's the only way to be sure. whenever i have the misfortune of landing on a coworker's split keyboard i constantly find my fingers running into the case when they expect a key.
[SIZE=-3]*see my avatar for correct backspace/backslash/enter. all others summarily rejected[/SIZE]
Learn to type, and you won't have this problem. ;)
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Is the uTron the only split keyboard with symmetrical halves currently? I'd like to try a split keyboard with inward key staggering without shelling out $500+.
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Learn to type, and you won't have this problem. ;)
oh i know how to type. but once i have one hand on the mouse, the rules change. ergonomic keyboards all seem to be designed based on the mistaken notion that the only way anyone presses keys is "both hands in typing position".
with the 'b' key i tend to alternate, sometimes using my left index finger and sometimes using my right. i haven't figured out yet just what causes me to sometimes use one hand and sometimes the other. there are too many common letters under the left hand anyway.
it is clearly absurd for touch-typing diagrams to put the '6' key on the right hand and the 'b' key on the left. the 'b' key is farther right than the '6'!
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i almost exclusively use my right pinky finger for shifting letters
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i almost exclusively use my right pinky finger for shifting letters
Curious. I have a tendency to over rely on my left pinky for shifting letters. I think part of this was because I got so used to the Matias Optimizer keyboard's optimizer shortcuts and also so much of my work requires frequent mouse use with my right hand.
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I use my left pinky and shift exclusively. Somebody took away my right one. (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=115747&postcount=14)
i clicked on the link expecting the story of how you lost your right pinky finger.
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I really have to think about which shift I actually use. I guess it's the right one, at least when I write all these capital I's the english language is so found of, but come to think of it, I guess I actually mostly use right shift for other capitalization as well.
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I use my left pinky and shift exclusively. Somebody took away my right one. (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=115747&postcount=14)
Ripster, have you investigated the viability of your surgery on other models? I wonder how many more keys you could squeeze from a Filco...
As for The Shift Survey, I always use my other hand for modifiers.
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Is the uTron the only split keyboard with symmetrical halves currently? I'd like to try a split keyboard with inward key staggering without shelling out $500+.
Except for non-split, non-staggered keyboards, I haven't seen one which took it as far as the µTRON.
The closest I've found is Datadesk's Smartboard (http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_sb.html), but it is a fixed-split keyboard.
The following link shows the left half of the keyboard with some caps removed, revealing whatever flavour of ALPS switch beneath it: http://www.atpm.com/12.05/images/smartboard5.jpg
You can also see that the rows change their angle depending on which finger is above it.
Larger picture of keyboard: http://diyism.com/!misc/smartboard-lg.jpg
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Except for non-split, non-staggered keyboards, I haven't seen one which took it as far as the µTRON.
The closest I've found is Datadesk's Smartboard (http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_sb.html), but it is a fixed-split keyboard.
The following link shows the left half of the keyboard with some caps removed, revealing whatever flavour of ALPS switch beneath it: http://www.atpm.com/12.05/images/smartboard5.jpg
You can also see that the rows change their angle depending on which finger is above it.
Larger picture of keyboard: http://diyism.com/!misc/smartboard-lg.jpg
Those are some interesting F keys!
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Did you know that Maltron offers different shapes of keyboards, even flat ones?
http://www.maltron.com/maltron-kbd-jtype.html
http://www.maltron.com/maltron-kbd-flat.html
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Those are some interesting F keys!
They have a tendency to jam...at least they did on the Datadesk Lil' Big Board I used to have.
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I've found out that TypeMatrix has plans (albeit distant-in-the-future plans) to develop a two-piece keyboard, similar to the uTron but with non-staggered keys.
Unfortunately since the TypeMatrix brand isn't very "big" it'll be some time before such a keyboard can be made. Here's to looking forward to what most members here would think is a silly board. :P
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Unfortunately since the TypeMatrix brand isn't very "big" it'll be some time before such a keyboard can be made. Here's to looking forward to what most members here would think is a silly board. :P
Well, there is still ample room for design mistakes. It does sound interesting though, if only they can build it for a reasonable price.
One way to get a split TypeMatrix is to get two of them. Also solves cmr's problems.
If you want to go modding, that is. Would be an interesting project though...
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One way to get a split TypeMatrix is to get two of them. Also solves cmr's problems.
Then the half of the keyboards not being used by their respective hands can be used as thumb keys. Sweet!
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Why mod? Just plug 'em both in. Heh, I wonder what effect that would have on quick sequences and rollover and stuff.
The rollover situation depends on your OS. Try it if you have a couple of USB keyboards around.
The reason you might want to mod is that when you put two of these next to each other, your left hand goes on the left side of the left board whilst the right hand goes on the right board. I haven't seen the keyboard in question in real-life so I can't judge its size, but it would mean that your hands may be even too far from each other. Oh, and it does take up some extra desk space.
Also, this is a scissor switch board - just so you know.
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Why mod? Just plug 'em both in. Heh, I wonder what effect that would have on quick sequences and rollover and stuff.
The quickest sequences are rolls with one hand, I'd think, so it shouldn't be an issue. (Worth testing though, and easy to do!) If I ever get around to building a split keyboard ... it will in fact be two.
I've found out that TypeMatrix has plans (albeit distant-in-the-future plans) to develop a two-piece keyboard, similar to the uTron but with non-staggered keys.
First rumours of a programmable Typematrix, now a split version.
Give me both in one board, and they have a deal.
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They sell a carry case for the Mouth-Head Stick keyboard. That's just plainly sadistic.
Not really. There are a lot of disabled people who need to do some computing outside of their home or office. They're not going to find mouth-stick keyboards available to them unless they have one brought along for them.
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They sell a carry case for the Mouth-Head Stick keyboard. That's just plainly sadistic.
The truth is out.
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Oh Man that's sick. Picking on the handicapped and all. Why's everybody laughing during the video?
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Very funny. You're hard, man. In my Rotterdam concert I thought the Dutch have a peculiar temperament. (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1038882/stevie_wonder_concert_14_september.html?cat=33)
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If it was made, I would buy it.
A Kinesis Contoured Advantage that is in 2 halves and mounted to the ends of the armrests.
Fully split, completely adjustable, mechanical switches, non-staggered keys, concave keyboard plane, reprogrammable, macro capable, Colemak layout. Still would need a pointing input, probably a touchpad. This would meet almost all ergonomic requirements.
The only thing comparable is a Datahand (which is BEYOND coolness).
I'm willing to cut mine in half if I can figure out the cabling. I think I have the rest worked out. Ideas are welcome!
Linky someone here posted previously of the innards:
http://skyian.mine.nu/discuz/viewthread.php?tid=992&page=1#pid7909
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looking for something eye ball control technology, maybe one day no more keyboard need...
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The three that most appeal to me (in no order) are the Kinesis Contoured, uTRON, and Datahand. If I had to pick one of them, I'd have the most trouble between the Kinesis and uTRON. I'm leaning more toward the Kinesis just on price, but also because I think it makes better use of the thumbs.
The Datahand definitely wins in the cool-looking category but I'm skeptical about its layout customization. Also, how is repeated key presses on the directional keys? I feel it is easier to move the finger vertically because you have some assistance from the wrist, but to move sideways or forwards I think I'd have to use the arm or finger joints more.
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No DataHand for you! ONE YEAR!
wut
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I'd buy the Combimouse (http://www.combimouse.com/) in an instant. It seems to solve the mouse/keyboard switching conundrum.
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wut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2lfZg-apSA
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:rofl: Man it has been awhile since I watch those thanks for the link...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2lfZg-apSA
So...webwit is the DataHand Nazi?
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No DataHand for you! ONE YEAR!
He was just quoting soup nazi, replacing "soup" with "datahand"
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you mean there's actually someone who doesnt know the soup nazi?
am I really that old?
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Or maybe I'm just young (21).
Or oblivious (more than likely).
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Or maybe I'm just young (21).
Or oblivious (more than likely).
well, I suppose you can be excused for being 7 years old when that episode first aired... though I have to say, in reruns that flood the airwaves at 7pm and 11pm, that episode must have aired a gazillion times by now, lol ;)
(and my god, i am getting old. Its not fair... :( feels like it was yesterday when I watched the ol' soup nazi)
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None of those Jedi Mind Tricks! No DataHANDs for YOU!
I never knew DataHands came in red hand-shaped models.
Plus you know Luke only has one hand...
EDIT: Oh I see what you did there.
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Interesting that there's not much love for the kinesis contour in this forum. It has a lot going for it, good switches, cheaper than mutron and on par with topres, etc... but very few owners. Never listed on favorites. Why is that?
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mutron
Do you mean μTron (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=109270&postcount=58) or Maltron (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=105518&postcount=21)?
Your question seems to work either way. :-)
As a partial answer, see Jcooper01's post (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=106350&postcount=32) earlier in this topic.
Other partial reasons might be: price (fairly high), looks (maybe? the μTron looks a lot slicker, to me; the various Maltrons look worse), and some folks have conservative tastes in layouts (look at the *****ing people do about the layout of the XT version of the Model F, and that's only a little different).
I stopped using my Kinesis Advantage pretty early for a pair of fairly trivial reasons: I realized how annoying it was to reach the square bracket key with the right ring finger (What can I say? I do a lot of Perl), and it was considerably noisier than my then-daily-driver: one of the nicer Key Tronic rubber dome boards. I kept it, though, against possible future need.
It is a pretty decent keyboard, and I like the brown Cherry switches. Its main drawback (for me) is tied into it's primary selling point: the unusual layout. Someday I ought to puzzle out a tweak or two for the layout and give it another chance.
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The three that most appeal to me (in no order) are the Kinesis Contoured...
The Kinesis Contoured has uncomfortable function keys. The real deal is the Maltron Ergonomic 3D, but really expensive. There was these cheaper (licensed) replica:
http://www.teleprint.com/
but they don't sell it anymore.
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I meant mutron, sorry. It applies to any expensive ergonomic keyboard.
I got a kinesis coming in the mail (due to sheer incompetence of the place I got it from, it may be in an infinite-loop-black-hole of customs). I hope I can adapt; I can remap keys with autohotkey if needed.
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I actually have a Kinesis Advantage keyboard in my rotation, and once you get used to the layout it is quite efficient and comfortable.
The discussion about ergonomics on this forum is very interesting, and while solutions tend to be specific to individual needs, not every keyboard is going to please the masses. Webwit loves his Datahand and makes very clear and useful descriptions on the benefits, but as the market has shown it was just TOOO far out there to be universally accepted.
I believe that the manufacturers are designing products that do what they say, which is provide ergonomic relief, but each keyboard or mouse also has to be useful. Anyone can walk up and type out a letter fairly efficiently on a Kisesis or Contour keyboard, but try you luck on a Datahand or Maltron.
Of course, YMMV.............Later
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I think a prerequisite of an ergonomic board is that it is split and adjustable, otherwise it's just like a one-size fits-all ergonomic shoe.
Maybe so, but that doesn't mean it's not an improvement over normal keyboards.
Anyway, my feeling is that computer ergonomics is only partially understood and involves a lot of factors, not just hand spacing. My girlfriend was able to get rid of her wrist pain, not by getting rid of the crappy rubber dome Dell keyboard, but instead by adjusting the height of her desk and switching to a 3M Ergonomic Mouse.
I find that thing clunky to use and ugly, but it helps her.
The DataHand has 88% less finger movement than a traditional board. The down keys are the fastest, the north keys the slowest (they go like a toggle switch). It's not that bad, they used to sell it to speed typists ;) The north key is longer than the other directional keys. This means you hit it when you move your finger slightly up/north. It's very nice and effortless.
The Datahand is also very hard to find, and much more expensive than the Kinesis. Which is not to say I don't want one...
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Well according to their site they're only selling from their reserve now; they've stopped production.
I'm going home to get a big pot!
(my attempt, having only just watched that sketch)
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I agree that an ergonomic keyboard should be split and adjustable, or it's not very ergonomic except for the few people it "fits".
Regardind the Kinesis Contoured Advantage, as an FYI:
I just spoke with Kinesis about splitting a Contoured Advantage into 2 halves. Several people have done it successfully. I'm going to purchase a few connectors from them and take my Contoured to our technicians in the next several weeks. A small project box is needed for the main controller board, and 2 30" extension cables need to be made. A case modification will need to be done once complete.
A split Contoured Advantage, the next best thing to the elusive Datahand.
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On the one hand, solutions like the DataHand are ingenious and well worth the money spent on them. On the other hand, many people don't have the money to spend on said solutions and compromise on a middle ground - something like the Kinesis or MS Natural or what-have-you.
Now, I think webwit mentioned this a long time ago, but if you really need the pain relief, and you have no other career choice than to type, then price really isn't (or shouldn't) be a barrier to obtaining a better input device. I also think, though, that the relief from one of these lesser solutions shouldn't be ignored even if they are not optimal like the DataHand or the uTron.
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Wow, after reading my last post, I don't think I really said anything.
Fail.
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The discussion about ergonomics on this forum is very interesting, and while solutions tend to be specific to individual needs, not every keyboard is going to please the masses. Webwit loves his Datahand and makes very clear and useful descriptions on the benefits, but as the market has shown it was just TOOO far out there to be universally accepted.
Well, it is a brilliant design, but I think the cost and the looks killed it - not to say you need to learn to type again.
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I have to jump on the Maltron bandwagon here.
We do sell them - but mainly they sell themselves. They have a great reputation amongst those who know more about ergonomics than I do (I have no medical training). Most of the sales we make are when they have been 'prescribed' to typists whose careers are threatened, sometimes already off sick with RSI related issues, and have sought expert advice.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating and we never get them back. People want to keep them because they fix their problem, and they don't break down. Maltron service them 100% so it is a keyboard for life.
The E Type was the first and is still, to my mind, the best ergonomic keyboard. All others are pale imitations. (Pretty nice car too).
The man designed them in his shed, and then manufactured them there. He compromised very little on ergonomics. That's why it looks wierd and is so expensive. I think the biggest problem was to mount the keys on the curve as it is. There is a hand soldered mesh of copper wires underneath joining all those Cherry MX switches up, and this could not be automated.
There is a trackball model too.
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=24
I agree that mice are the growing problem nowadays.
People have a number of factors in mind when choosing keyboards but if it is 100% ergonomics, for use at a desk, Maltron take some beating.
Before buying I would recomend a good root around on http://www.maltron.com/index.html
There is a wealth of info on there - well beyond my knowledge.
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I know. Fair cop.
But that is my honest opinion.
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I like to try one once :)
So.. UK shop says UK rsi medicine men advice UK invented ergo board which is the best ever made anywhere? And you happen to sell those?
We were the first to mass produce toothbrushes too, we get no credit for that either. Oh, no, just ridiculous stereotypes...
(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/britishteeth.jpg)
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What happens in an ergoboard Deathmatch?
Isn't there some EU law we'd be breaking? ;)
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Stereotype? You air a sci-fi show about people with silly teeth, called Dr. Who.
Well, we may as well join in the fun...
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We were the first to mass produce toothbrushes too, we get no credit for that either. Oh, no, just ridiculous stereotypes...
Considering the number of simultaneous inventions that seem to have happened, its not too surprising that one country would try to claim it first over another. According to Wikipedia, Polypropylene, a very common plastic, was actually independently invented about 9 times.
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Ouch. I guess he won't be using any of those foot pedal keyboards.
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Does anyone think remapping can be added to a Maltron? We'll do it if it's reasonably possible, AND split the darn thing into 2 pieces (losing 4 keys in the process).
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Ouch. I guess he won't be using any of those foot pedal keyboards.
Beat me to it!
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Hmm... I think you got the victor swapped. Everybody knows Darth Maul is a traditional Dutch name.
Oh, I just saw the standard-layout keyboard in his hand (minus a few letters, for some reason; Hawaiian layout, perhaps).
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Just for the record: an Ergodex DX1 (http://www.ergodex.com/mainpage.htm) the size of a full-fledged keyboard with extra keys would be interesting.
At least you could prototype your keyboard layout before making some expensive custom keyboard.
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Just got the kinesis and I'm very impressed...
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As a programmer, I have suffered RSI for quite many years, and went through so many keyboards/mice and here are some experience I have to share:
- Kinesis Advantage is by far the only keeper. I struggled many months (ordered and returned once) in order to get used to it. I had the similar fear: weird arrow keys, small ESC and Function keys. Turns out those are easy to get over with problems (took me months though):
- just map ESC to Caps Lock,
- if you prefer you can map arrow keys to one side (like vi style). And you really don't use Function key that often anyway (or get the Pro version, its function keys are bit bigger)
- stick a touchpad (like ergotouchpad.com) in the middle of the keyboard to save SOME movement to mouse
- foot pedal design is genius on Kinesis (get the traditional pedal not the fancy USB ones). Traditional pedal is cheaper, can be mapped as a key, there is no driver required (I use linux).
- get use to the Cherry Brown, you don't need to bottom the key at all
- I still have some pain here and there, but seems Kinesis is doing alright. Also I am learning Colemak now.
- GoldTouch: used for 4 years, was swearing by it (bought 5). Eventually the membrane keys gave up, and once I typed on Cherry, no going back.
- Typematrix: has to cramp my hands on such a small space is crazy. Recent layout is totally crazy
- Realforce/HHKB Pro: love the keys, however my wrists can't stand them for more than one hour
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If I had the money, I'd love an M15. An adjustable split-ergonomic keyboard with buckling springs would be the best. If only they had trackballs though...
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how many ergonomic keyboards use cherry switches?
I miss my Microsoft Natural Elite keyboard I loved the posture and speed it gave me. I am using a Das Ultimate Professional so I have been thinking about a ergo transplant and I find the biggest obstacle is the keycaps for example on a ergo keyboard the spacebars can't be replaced and I don't think any company will fabricate new ones for such a small order.
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One keyboard that's hardly ever mentioned here in ergonomic discussions but deserves to be is the Comfort Keyboard: http://comfortkeyboard.com/keyboards_comfort.html
It's adjustability is far better than any other keyboard I've seen. It's main drawback for users of this forum is that it has fairly horrible rubber dome keys. I've always thought the bastard child of a Kinesis and a CK would be the perfect ergonomic keyboard.
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Best:
DataHand Pro II
The DataHand indeed seems a real deal as ergonomic keyboards go.
I'd use an ergonomic keyboard, but having to type on a laptop half the time does not help things. Therefore, I currently use a standard keyboard with a few adjustments:
- shift the right hand one column to the right;
- use a customized ergonomic layout;
- testing usage of a Japanese mechanical keyboard (FILCO FKBN91M) because the shorter space bar allows for an easy reach of modifiers by means of the thumbs;
- use a trackball with my left hand.
I don't experience pain in my hands anymore.
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By the way, rumor has it that Datahand is currently producing a new batch ...
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I am 100% intrigued by the Datahand, however it is such a turn-off by their ridiculous 90-days warranty for such an expensive board, also the 15% restocking fee with 15 day return period.
I think the reason that most of the "ergo" stuff are super expensive is simply many big companies treat RSI as work-related injury and thus insurance companies are usually paying the bill (it is still much cheaper than paying for therapy). That also explains a bit why they may not have high return rate (why bother?).
Couple more comments:
- tried and hated Kinesis Freestyle (it is a piece of crap rubber dome, shame on Kinesis)
- was interested in Safetype, now guess I will pass
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I want that keyboard.
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In my books, a numpad-less keyboard is as ergonomic as I need.
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Ok, one with a decent layout and good swithces... But nonetheless, I have never had any RSI/CT type problems arising for using a regular board.
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Maltron or Kinesis?
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I vote Kinesis.
You have the keys from the middle field on the Maltron on the Kinesis (it's mostly the 10 key anyhow). The Kinesis is half the cost, has foot pedal options, is macro-programable, and is easier to maneuver around for non-traditional desk/chair usage. The rubber function keys are a bit of a bummer, but again, they are usually not frequent use.
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I paid for two Kinesis, and one Maltron. I use the Kinesis.
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If I saw an M15 at a tag sale for cheap, I'd buy that. Options by IBM is the way to go!
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Personally, I'd love a keyboard like a Maltron, I just wouldn't want to have to pay for it.
you just took the words out of my mouth