Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 06 March 2017, 04:20:48
I've opened some of the new switches and replaced the stem of an old switch with the stem of a new one. The switch stays smooth also in the new housing. So the difference is in the stem. When you compare a new switch to the old one, you can definetely see that the sides are smoother, and that on the back of the stem there is a smaller gap, which is identical to the new silent switch.
new switch on the left, old switch on the right:
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=1]
the stem of the new cherry mx silent is identical to the new cherry mx black that I have at hand, so the use the same very smooth cast.
[attachimg=3]
here you can see the old linear stems. Look at the stem of reds and blacks, you can clearly the differences between the old reds/ blacks, and the new silent switch, which is identical to the new black that I own :thumb:
Post by: need on Mon, 06 March 2017, 05:38:41
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 06 March 2017, 06:49:11
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
You have no idea what I'm talking about, don't you?
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 06 March 2017, 06:54:18
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
normal cherry switches are a little bit scratchy if you haven't noticed
Post by: need on Mon, 06 March 2017, 07:35:42
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
You have no idea what I'm talking about, don't you?
Of course I do, and that's why I want you to make a video comparing them. It would be much more convincing in hearing the switches rather than just reading the words.
Post by: orpheo on Mon, 06 March 2017, 07:44:29
Maybe some new browns but I can type on them if I only had them.
Your new board is from what year?
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 06 March 2017, 08:28:23
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
You have no idea what I'm talking about, don't you?
Of course I do, and that's why I want you to make a video comparing them. It would be much more convincing in hearing the switches rather than just reading the words.
But there's a very little sound difference.... it's just that they are smoother, you can clearly feel it when you press them, the slower the press, the stronger the scratchiness.
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 06 March 2017, 08:30:03
I have a thousands MX vintage and NOS. And I don't have that scratchy feeling so hyped on fora.
Maybe some new browns but I can type on them if I only had them.
Your new board is from what year?
The frame of the good one is internally marked as produced in 2015, the scratchy ones... I don't know... All my cherry keyboards have been bought in 2015-2017
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 06 March 2017, 09:28:37
You'll have to keep us updated with what you find on closer inspection. It would be pretty big news if Cherry somehow managed to get the scratchiness out of their switches. I'm team Gateron for just that reason, but I would love to have less wobble.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 06 March 2017, 14:04:25
so.. no video can be made of this.
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 06 March 2017, 14:38:40
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..
so.. no video can be made of this.
everything about keyboards is subjective
i still maintain that the blacks and reds I've got are smooth, but they're also used pretty heavily
Post by: chyros on Mon, 06 March 2017, 14:47:34
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..No, I think scratchiness is one of the few things that aren't actually subjective. It's even measurable.
so.. no video can be made of this.
Post by: falkentyne on Mon, 06 March 2017, 16:11:21
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
Videos can't show "smoothness in action" and not everyone has a $1,000 camera that can even capture such details.
You know not everyone on this forum is filthy rich, right?
And I'm not surprised about Cherry improving the quality of their switches.
The RGB MX Browns on my YOTG feel EXTREMELY smooth and the bump feel subtle but solid. Not Gateron smooth, but very nice for what you would expect from a Cherry.
Gaterons are very nice, but I'm not the biggest fan of them. Nicer than Outemus and very smooth, but NOT fun to type on at all. Gateron Greens that I have in my Void ray teamwolf are almost TOO smooth...the clicks are nice, but the tactile bump is so light compared to PROPERLY MADE MX clicky switches that it feels more like a tactile clear than a MX clicky switch. I cant speak for Gateron blues, but I find the MX Greens on my Shine 69 and the blues on my Shine 6/YOTM much more fun to type on...keys feel a lot more bouncy (more feedback due to more resistance at the click point and rebound bump)
The blues in my iKBC, on the other hand, are awful.
If you read these forums too much, you would think EVERY cherry MX switch has sand all over the sliders and molasses as lubricant.
Post by: need on Mon, 06 March 2017, 16:19:20
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
Videos can't show "smoothness in action" and not everyone has a $1,000 camera that can even capture such details.
You know not everyone on this forum is filthy rich, right?
Chyro has done a good job in capturing the sound difference between vintage blacks and nixdorf switches though, does that mean he is filthy rich? :eek:
This proves that videos can indeed show it, even with the low end equipment that he has.
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 06 March 2017, 17:37:43
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..HaaTa built a device that can measure switches and produce force graphs. Scratchier switches have more jittery graphs, so it is definitely not just subjective.
so.. no video can be made of this.
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 13 March 2017, 05:44:55
Post by: cutterline on Mon, 13 March 2017, 07:09:05
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..
It isn't, you can easily test scratchy slider. First you need 3 things, your fingernail, scratchy slider (e.g red/black cherry slider, not vintage black), and a reference smooth slider like clear slider (both cherry and gateron clear has same degree of smoothness) or blue switch, the clicky clear plastic part. Your fingernail has to be short. Why it must be short? I find shorter fingernail is more sensitive, maybe because it is closer to the nerve.
Then, to feel the scratchiness, just press you fingernail gently and "scratch" along the slider part where it touch the metal leaf. You'll find it easily on those cherry switches but not on reference switch.
I do agree you can't video this because there is no visible feedback except from your fingernail tip. Scratchiness is due to surface roughness in microscopic scale. Hence, the only way that the result can be observed by everybody is by doing surface metrology using profilometer, quantifying those roughness into numbers.
If you read these forums too much, you would think EVERY cherry MX switch has sand all over the sliders and molasses as lubricant.Hahaha, at the very least from my experiments, their clear and those clicky part of blue/green are also smooth.
Post by: Squaggles on Mon, 13 March 2017, 08:24:19
Post by: need on Mon, 13 March 2017, 08:26:48
Well, I'm not too sure on how to measure the scratchiness of a switch, but I think we can all agree that cherry making their switches much smoother is a very good think. Makes getting a keyboard with cherry blacks such as a f660m seem much more appealing.
not even sure if this claim is even true though.
Post by: falkentyne on Mon, 13 March 2017, 15:19:47
My Ducky YOTG has some of the smoothest MX Browns I've ever felt. There is literally no difference between this and a Gateron brown except the more tactile bump, but with the smoothness, the bump is subtle and can be felt even when pushing the switch fast (you don't "feel" it but you can tell you're moving past it), and does make the keyboard a joy to use, if a bit boring. And there is absolutely no feel of any sort of "sand bump" thing that some people here have complained about in browns. There could be accuracy statement (vs it being brand new) and "break-in" (smoothing) issues at work here, since the keyboard is basically a year and a half old now, but it wasn't used very often until recently.
The most recent batches of RGB MX Blues that Ducky has been receiving are also smoother and have a much more solid sounding click (sounds like a deeper click and more mechanical-like) than older RGB Blues like the ones iKBC was using late last year on their F series boards (I've compared them side by side...it's almost like the Ducky is using blues made with a different material). I can't speak for any batches that were made in January or Feb 2017, but you get the point.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 13 March 2017, 15:27:43
Post by: chyros on Mon, 13 March 2017, 22:13:16
Post by: zpcomstock17 on Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:03:14
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..
so.. no video can be made of this.
I think not.
What I think is some care about scratchy switches more, some don't mind scratchy switches.
Scratchy switches is a thing, take a batch of MX Black modern switches. Press the switches over your ear, you can hear plastic of the slider against the housing, you will hear grinding that sounds something like sandpaper.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:40:01
Chyros did a sound comparison using his cheap microphone or webcam or something comparing a new MX Black to a vintage MX Black and the difference was clearly audible, the new MX Black had a much louder "sshhshhshhshhh" sound from the friction.Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.
Videos can't show "smoothness in action" and not everyone has a $1,000 camera that can even capture such details.
You know not everyone on this forum is filthy rich, right?
And I'm not surprised about Cherry improving the quality of their switches.
The RGB MX Browns on my YOTG feel EXTREMELY smooth and the bump feel subtle but solid. Not Gateron smooth, but very nice for what you would expect from a Cherry.
Gaterons are very nice, but I'm not the biggest fan of them. Nicer than Outemus and very smooth, but NOT fun to type on at all. Gateron Greens that I have in my Void ray teamwolf are almost TOO smooth...the clicks are nice, but the tactile bump is so light compared to PROPERLY MADE MX clicky switches that it feels more like a tactile clear than a MX clicky switch. I cant speak for Gateron blues, but I find the MX Greens on my Shine 69 and the blues on my Shine 6/YOTM much more fun to type on...keys feel a lot more bouncy (more feedback due to more resistance at the click point and rebound bump)
The blues in my iKBC, on the other hand, are awful.
If you read these forums too much, you would think EVERY cherry MX switch has sand all over the sliders and molasses as lubricant.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:44:30
Chyros did a sound comparison using his cheap microphone or webcam or something comparing a new MX Black to a vintage MX Black and the difference was clearly audible, the new MX Black had a much louder "sshhshhshhshhh" sound from the friction.
Yea this is what I was thinking as well. No video just close up sound. Should show some difference.
Post by: zpcomstock17 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 02:08:09
I'd feel much more comfortable about this if Cherry made a statement about it. You'd think that this would be the result of a retooling of some sort, and they'd be happy to spread the news of updated tooling or increased quality, but I haven't seen a thing. That way we can also try and pin down what caused this issue in the first place.
Anybody please, get in contact with Cherry to confirm their toolings changed.
With new tooling, MX linear switches won't be a laughing stock anymore.
Gateron dominates the linear switch market right now. If there's someone custom board soldered with linear switches, you bet all your money they're gaterons.
I'm looking forward Cherry linears becoming a thing again.
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 14 March 2017, 06:40:19
Post by: Jumie on Tue, 14 March 2017, 07:01:27
Post by: chyros on Tue, 14 March 2017, 08:29:58
I understand the skepticism but Giorgio actually provided some evidence. Those stems are definitely different from each other and it might be totally possible that the newer are smoother.I agree, which is why I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.
Post by: Squaggles on Tue, 14 March 2017, 08:35:26
Quote from: chryos
I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.
Let's hope that this indeed a new process. If it's just a single batch, that I'll be very sad, because I would love to get my hands on some of those blacks.
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 14 March 2017, 08:57:05
I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 14 March 2017, 08:57:31
Post by: chyros on Tue, 14 March 2017, 11:01:11
Which is part of why I want to find out if it's actually because of new tooling :p . Or if this applies to all manufacturing plants!I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
Basically we have no idea of what has caused this change or or widespread it is, so I think that'd be a good thing to find out first xD . There's so many keyboard myths already in the community :p . I think this is a really interesting find though, basically I just want to know more about it. It'd be great if they did actually improve their process in some way because that'd be really cool.
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 11:14:20
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 14 March 2017, 12:40:02
What's your plan? Are you gonna ask at Cherry Corp directly?Which is part of why I want to find out if it's actually because of new tooling :p . Or if this applies to all manufacturing plants!I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
Basically we have no idea of what has caused this change or or widespread it is, so I think that'd be a good thing to find out first xD . There's so many keyboard myths already in the community :p . I think this is a really interesting find though, basically I just want to know more about it. It'd be great if they did actually improve their process in some way because that'd be really cool.
Post by: justinmtype on Tue, 14 March 2017, 13:14:37
Post by: falkentyne on Tue, 14 March 2017, 13:39:01
My Ducky Shine 6 and my YOTM Ducky with Cherry MX RGB Blues are significantly smoother than the MX RGB Blues in my iKBC F108 ( have two of them; one had a broken cable so I use it for science). Basically, not only does the switch feel smoother (the RGB blues are not as smooth as my MX Brown RGBs in my ducky Year of the Goat, which feel almost Gateron smooth).
I can't give a proper comparison with the YOTG because I never tested the smoothness when the keyboard was brand new (Only the shine 6 and YOTM). The only thing I noticed about the brand new YOTG Was that the RGB MX Browns had a MUCH quieter bottoming out sound compared to the shine 4/3/G710+. It basically felt similar to the way the G710+ felt with O rings installed, but with a different pitch on bottoming out.
I did just now press a basically unused key on my YOTG (keypad - ) and it was extremely smooth just now.
The MX Blues in the Shine 6 have a 'deeper' sounding click sound that sounds like the switch has some type of tighter mechanism and it just feels better. It almost feels as if the metal clicker is made of a better material or something. It honestly feels like a different switch in a way. It's not the same type of difference when comparing a MX Green or MX Blue to a Gateron blue or green (The Gateron clicks feel MUCH harsher and the tactile bump feels less substantial) I can't speak for the stem as I don't have any switch top removers and I only have an iKBC switch unsoldered right now. But I can definitely tell you the YOTG's MX browns feel better than the MX Browns on my Shine 4, shine 3 or Logitech G910+, although I could swear the G910+ felt the most "tactile" (I no longer have this keyboard), but the YOTG feels the best to type on.
Post by: robbles on Tue, 14 March 2017, 14:08:21
Post by: Acerk on Tue, 14 March 2017, 14:33:16
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 15:10:35
If we get official confirmation of the new stem design, it would be awesome if someone started a group buy of the switches. Lots of people would throw down.I mean, it IS official, idk why there should be any question of that. Simplest example would just be the picture of the cherry mx silent switch.
(http://i.imgur.com/WM4zBnm.jpg)
See that notch out of the back of the stem? This is one of the few design changes on the new stems.
Compare that to the back of old stems
(http://i.imgur.com/969b9wb.jpg)
Id personally get pics but I dont really want to desolder my pok3r right now.
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 14 March 2017, 17:41:23
[attachimg=1]
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:01:09
I don't want to buy a new board to get them, but I'd order some loose ones. Wonder if someone at MK.com can tell if they got the new ones in stock?
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:05:00
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.
I did, however, find one on newegg. :thumb:
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:13:32
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.
I did, however, find one on newegg. :thumb:
they're using the wrong picture
these are ansi:
light gray case
ean: 4025112064937
black case
ean: 4025112064975
[attachurl=1]
Post by: robbles on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:14:46
Would love to hear Cherry's response also.
I don't want to buy a new board to get them, but I'd order some loose ones. Wonder if someone at MK.com can tell if they got the new ones in stock?
Same. I was considering a Gateron Black build but would prefer the real McCoy.
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:18:23
Would love to hear Cherry's response also.
I don't want to buy a new board to get them, but I'd order some loose ones. Wonder if someone at MK.com can tell if they got the new ones in stock?
Same. I was considering a Gateron Black build but would prefer the real McCoy.
Cherry keyboards are quite cheap in Europe. For example this costs €67 https://www.amazon.it/Cherry-G80-1800-QWERTY-Inglese-Nero/dp/B001KRDOJ6/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1489533393&sr=8-10&keywords=g80-1800
If there was a way to check if the keyboard had the new switches, you could buy a keyboard and then desolder the switches, which by the way are pcb mounted.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 14 March 2017, 20:49:23
Post by: Acerk on Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:07:43
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.
I did, however, find one on newegg. :thumb:
Like Giorgi pointed out, they're using the stock pictures that Cherry makes available. Cherry will use the ISO model for stock pictures because they're a German company. Here in Europe we are used to having it the other way.
An easy way to find the layout you're looking for is to use the model number from the PDF datasheet
http://www.cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_G80-1800.htm?rdeLocationAttr=0&rdeLocaleAttr=en&switch=true (http://www.cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_G80-1800.htm?rdeLocationAttr=0&rdeLocaleAttr=en&switch=true)
Post by: Zhuni on Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:12:40
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:50:56
While I like MX silent I find them just as scratchy as reds. For that reason I still prefer Gateron reds.
Sorry for your problems.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 15 March 2017, 16:53:34
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.
I did, however, find one on newegg. :thumb:
Like Giorgi pointed out, they're using the stock pictures that Cherry makes available. Cherry will use the ISO model for stock pictures because they're a German company. Here in Europe we are used to having it the other way.
An easy way to find the layout you're looking for is to use the model number from the PDF datasheet
http://www.cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_G80-1800.htm?rdeLocationAttr=0&rdeLocaleAttr=en&switch=true (http://www.cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_G80-1800.htm?rdeLocationAttr=0&rdeLocaleAttr=en&switch=true)
I see, that makes sense. I'm going to assume that these have a similar cheap case quality like the current G80-3000? I love the looks of them, and I drool over the light gray one, but I don't want to get my hopes up over cheap/flimsy plastic. Also, these are PCB mounted switches, correct? Might be worth the money to get that color of case, plus unique layout, plus updated switches :)
Post by: ander on Wed, 15 March 2017, 16:57:45
I can't speak for their other colours, but the Gateron Blacks in the inexpensive Chinese board I recently acquired are what I'd call perfect—noticeably heavier than (too-light, IMHO) Reds, but not quite as heavy as Cherry's Blacks (which I find tiring). And they're s-m-o-o-t-h.
Post by: Acerk on Wed, 15 March 2017, 17:13:40
I see, that makes sense. I'm going to assume that these have a similar cheap case quality like the current G80-3000? I love the looks of them, and I drool over the light gray one, but I don't want to get my hopes up over cheap/flimsy plastic. Also, these are PCB mounted switches, correct? Might be worth the money to get that color of case, plus unique layout, plus updated switches :)
Yes. They are PCB mounted and incredibly flimsy. When I opened mine up the first time, both of the plastic pins that hold the PCB in place broke. The material is incredibly brittle. I still think the G80-1800 is the coolest looking keyboard and I'm glad I bought it. When I switch out the PCB I'll probably put in some sound dampeners and add some weight to it.
Post by: Zeal on Wed, 15 March 2017, 18:25:19
Post by: chyros on Wed, 15 March 2017, 19:33:35
When Cherry introduced Cherry MX Nature White, that's when the linear stems got a revamp.fockstha
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 15 March 2017, 21:29:23
Something worth noting is that the newer stems won't work with gateron housing that have the black bottom, but will work with milk bottoms
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 15 March 2017, 22:10:33
Thanks for the image of the updated stems
Something worth noting is that the newer stems won't work with gateron housing that have the black bottom, but will work with milk bottoms
Why is that?
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 15 March 2017, 22:15:52
new cherry silver bottom vs. old cherry clear bottom - same to me:
http://i.imgur.com/rJERl65.jpg
Post by: digi on Wed, 15 March 2017, 22:16:43
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 16 March 2017, 00:05:36
I suspect the switches in my 660M are the newer ones after reading this post. Kinda wish I would've went with Cherry switches for my new build now. Oh well, I never tried Gat blacks & find Cherry blacks to be a bit light. I got 80g gold springs to swap out the 50g springs in the Gats before I assemble it, so I'm kinda creating a different beast altogether for my 1st build. ;)
Post by: robbles on Thu, 16 March 2017, 15:39:46
No need to hunt for vintage blacks anymore, you'll soon be able to purchase the best linear switch - Cherry Silvers easily online from a retailer.
Sounds like mk.com still doesn't know when they will be getting the switches in. I honestly have never tried MX linear after focusing my journey on their tactile/clicky switches. Found my love for tactility in Topre. Hoping I find my love for linear in MX. But now there are so many choices!
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 16 March 2017, 15:55:25
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 17 March 2017, 02:51:35
Does this only apply to linear stems?
I'm pretty sure it applies to all the different stem types from Cherry's newest batches. At least on Winkeyless.kr they say they have blacks, blues, clears, & browns with the new stems. http://winkeyless.kr/product/cherry-mx-switchs/ (http://winkeyless.kr/product/cherry-mx-switchs/) Unless I am misunderstanding what they mean by their product description, but I don't see why they would refer to the switches as "New MX black/blue/clear/brown Slider Switches (PCB Mounted)" otherwise. They don't sell used switches that I know of & if they did it would most likely be cleaned up vintage black/blues which I'm sure would be clearly marked & much more expensive.
No need to hunt for vintage blacks anymore, you'll soon be able to purchase the best linear switch - Cherry Silvers easily online from a retailer.
Sounds like mk.com still doesn't know when they will be getting the switches in. I honestly have never tried MX linear after focusing my journey on their tactile/clicky switches. Found my love for tactility in Topre. Hoping I find my love for linear in MX. But now there are so many choices!
I'd inquire over at http://winkeyless.kr/ (http://winkeyless.kr/) as I believe they have Cherrys with the new sliders. I don't think they offer silvers yet though if that is the specific switches you are looking for.
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 17 March 2017, 08:56:54
You suck, dude.While I like MX silent I find them just as scratchy as reds. For that reason I still prefer Gateron reds.
Sorry for your problems.
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 17 March 2017, 10:10:05
You suck, dude.While I like MX silent I find them just as scratchy as reds. For that reason I still prefer Gateron reds.
Sorry for your problems.
:eek:
Post by: OfTheWild on Fri, 17 March 2017, 15:56:17
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 17 March 2017, 17:25:53
Post by: Merranza on Sat, 18 March 2017, 00:37:57
I'm coming from the original K70 RGB with reds. I recently tried a rapidfire RGB and a LUX RGB with reds and both have a much nicer keypress feel than my original K70. The keys are smoother, quiter and more importantly, definitely feel more stable and less woobly.
Finally kept the LUX as I do not like the silver switches (small travel and heavier switch... the higher actuation point is nice but unless you press the key very slowly, you will not notice the difference under normal usage.
There's a noticeable difference with these new stems.
Post by: wodan on Sat, 18 March 2017, 05:36:30
They aren't quite as smooth as late 90s Clears but they appear a LOT smoother than late 2000 Clears which wouldn't even feel smooth with a good lube job ...
Cherry renaissance?
On the other hand, i never felt like there was any shortage in great Vintage Blacks or even Vintage Clears.
Post by: TerryMathews on Sat, 18 March 2017, 13:28:44
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 18 March 2017, 13:44:19
I just don't understand how Cherry can sit there, with presumably a warehouse full of MX Clear stems and springs from blues, reds, and browns and not say to themselves "Hell, we should sell these together. ZealPC gets $0.75-0.85/switch. No reason we can't offer them as a special order item at $0.55 and make a killing."
That's about what they sell for retail. You can order cherry switches wholesale for under $0.30 a switch, but you have to order... can't remember if it's 100K or a million of them. You can get them in any color with any weight, though.
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 19 March 2017, 10:32:26
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 19 March 2017, 10:46:16
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..No, I think scratchiness is one of the few things that aren't actually subjective. It's even measurable.
so.. no video can be made of this.
+1
It's fine to say scratchiness is relative.
It's possible to say anything subjectively though, despite still being measurable.
(http://www.thefundingguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/4.jpg)
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 19 March 2017, 11:11:06
Which is part of why I want to find out if it's actually because of new tooling :p . Or if this applies to all manufacturing plants!I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
Basically we have no idea of what has caused this change or or widespread it is, so I think that'd be a good thing to find out first xD . There's so many keyboard myths already in the community :p . I think this is a really interesting find though, basically I just want to know more about it. It'd be great if they did actually improve their process in some way because that'd be really cool.
Thanks for the image of the updated stems
Something worth noting is that the newer stems won't work with gateron housing that have the black bottom, but will work with milk bottoms
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.
I did, however, find one on newegg. :thumb:
they're using the wrong picture
these are ansi:
light gray case
ean: 4025112064937
black case
ean: 4025112064975
(Attachment Link)
Does this only apply to linear stems?
I'm pretty sure it applies to all the different stem types from Cherry's newest batches. At least on Winkeyless.kr they say they have blacks, blues, clears, & browns with the new stems. http://winkeyless.kr/product/cherry-mx-switchs/ (http://winkeyless.kr/product/cherry-mx-switchs/) Unless I am misunderstanding what they mean by their product description, but I don't see why they would refer to the switches as "New MX black/blue/clear/brown Slider Switches (PCB Mounted)" otherwise. They don't sell used switches that I know of & if they did it would most likely be cleaned up vintage black/blues which I'm sure would be clearly marked & much more expensive.No need to hunt for vintage blacks anymore, you'll soon be able to purchase the best linear switch - Cherry Silvers easily online from a retailer.
Sounds like mk.com still doesn't know when they will be getting the switches in. I honestly have never tried MX linear after focusing my journey on their tactile/clicky switches. Found my love for tactility in Topre. Hoping I find my love for linear in MX. But now there are so many choices!
I'd inquire over at http://winkeyless.kr/ (http://winkeyless.kr/) as I believe they have Cherrys with the new sliders. I don't think they offer silvers yet though if that is the specific switches you are looking for.
These can be documented more clearly and thoroughly, as in:
- Whenever all or only a few specific Cherry factories are already producing these switches with new stems?
- Does this new stem design (or some aspects of it) apply to all models of Cherry switches?
- If I am to get a new keyboard, what model / production numbers will point me to a board with some of these new switches?
- If I am to get some of these new Cherry switches, which model(s) should I get and from which providers can I get them from?
By the way, is the new Gateron (non-Milky housing) switches as smooth as their older Milky counterparts?
Now that's interesting!
I hope Cherry's revision is the result of some careful work.
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 19 March 2017, 12:42:40
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Post by: Unforgivable on Thu, 23 March 2017, 08:33:21
just got my mx blacks in for my gh60
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Where did you buy them from?
I can confirm that the new stems are really smooth, got them from Sen's gb. I never tried Vintage switches, are these new smooth switches just like them? Even better?
I'm really hoping to get more, but I have a feeling many places will still have the old versions in stock, and Winkeyless charges a hefty price for them. Other sites at least give you a better price for bulk.
Post by: need on Thu, 23 March 2017, 09:17:43
just got my mx blacks in for my gh60
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Where did you buy them from?
I can confirm that the new stems are really smooth, got them from Sen's gb. I never tried Vintage switches, are these new smooth switches just like them? Even better?
I'm really hoping to get more, but I have a feeling many places will still have the old versions in stock, and Winkeyless charges a hefty price for them. Other sites at least give you a better price for bulk.
Can you do a close-up sound recording?
Post by: Unforgivable on Thu, 23 March 2017, 10:41:07
just got my mx blacks in for my gh60
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Where did you buy them from?
I can confirm that the new stems are really smooth, got them from Sen's gb. I never tried Vintage switches, are these new smooth switches just like them? Even better?
I'm really hoping to get more, but I have a feeling many places will still have the old versions in stock, and Winkeyless charges a hefty price for them. Other sites at least give you a better price for bulk.
Can you do a close-up sound recording?
I don't have anything but a phone to record sounds.
I understand why you may be skeptical, but these new linears are honestly very smooth with no scratchiness. Smoother then the Gaterons I have. Maybe someone can send Chryos some since he made a video comparing them last time.
Looking forward to getting some more soon.
Edit: Why don't you buy a lone switch from Winkeyless to test it out? I can't imagine shipping being that costly, if it is just email him for a quote. :)
Post by: dante on Thu, 23 March 2017, 10:44:04
Post by: Unforgivable on Thu, 23 March 2017, 10:53:32
I remember people getting all bent out of shape once the clones arrived; but truth be told I doubt Cherry would have gotten off their asses if they hadn't shown up.
I think of it this way - Their thought was "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Which is why their switches have been the same way for a while.
I think they're making so many sales regardless, that they don't care if the enthusiasts are using other switches. Many of the stock boards that are sold still use Cherry. However, once they started making new molds for their new switches they thought "why not" and started using the new molds. That's just my theory of course.
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 23 March 2017, 12:36:58
just got my mx blacks in for my gh60
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Where did you buy them from?
I can confirm that the new stems are really smooth, got them from Sen's gb. I never tried Vintage switches, are these new smooth switches just like them? Even better?
I'm really hoping to get more, but I have a feeling many places will still have the old versions in stock, and Winkeyless charges a hefty price for them. Other sites at least give you a better price for bulk.
Can you do a close-up sound recording?
Can you stop annoying people ask them for SOUND RECORDINGS? not everyone here is rich and capable of recording sounds. Why don't you just buy the switch yourself since you think we're all lying to you?
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 23 March 2017, 13:23:25
just got my mx blacks in for my gh60
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Where did you buy them from?
I can confirm that the new stems are really smooth, got them from Sen's gb. I never tried Vintage switches, are these new smooth switches just like them? Even better?
I'm really hoping to get more, but I have a feeling many places will still have the old versions in stock, and Winkeyless charges a hefty price for them. Other sites at least give you a better price for bulk.
bought them from mechanicalkeyboards
Post by: davkol on Thu, 23 March 2017, 15:57:31
Can you stop annoying people ask them for SOUND RECORDINGS? not everyone here is rich and capable of recording sounds. Why don't you just buy the switch yourself since you think we're all lying to you?You mean "rich = has $5 for a mic" and "capable of recording sounds = is fundamentally computer-literate"?
Then, not everyone is "rich" enough to blindly purchase any switches, that show up in the market.
Post by: DuckNorris on Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:07:36
Can you stop annoying people ask them for SOUND RECORDINGS? not everyone here is rich and capable of recording sounds. Why don't you just buy the switch yourself since you think we're all lying to you?You mean "rich = has $5 for a mic" and "capable of recording sounds = is fundamentally computer-literate"?
Then, not everyone is "rich" enough to blindly purchase any switches, that show up in the market.
Actually people even complain in youtube how the sound is not good enough from those $5 mics and they can't hear the switches that well. Like I am not even kidding.
Post by: Prince Valiant on Thu, 23 March 2017, 17:14:44
Post by: davkol on Thu, 23 March 2017, 17:30:33
Post by: chyros on Thu, 23 March 2017, 18:23:03
Post by: robbles on Thu, 23 March 2017, 18:41:05
If someone can send me one or more of these new switches, I can show quite a lot of details on them now, including extreme close-up pictures and a sound test.
Yesssssss. Someone please deliver. Excited to see how the new gear changes your videos.
Post by: need on Thu, 23 March 2017, 19:14:53
just got my mx blacks in for my gh60
defo smoother than the reds in my kbt pure
Where did you buy them from?
I can confirm that the new stems are really smooth, got them from Sen's gb. I never tried Vintage switches, are these new smooth switches just like them? Even better?
I'm really hoping to get more, but I have a feeling many places will still have the old versions in stock, and Winkeyless charges a hefty price for them. Other sites at least give you a better price for bulk.
Can you do a close-up sound recording?
Can you stop annoying people ask them for SOUND RECORDINGS? not everyone here is rich and capable of recording sounds. Why don't you just buy the switch yourself since you think we're all lying to you?
Can you stop annoying me to get a switch? not everyone here is rich and capable of buying a switch and get it shipped from god-knows-where.
(Following your logic, that is.)
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 24 March 2017, 03:31:40
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
If someone can send me one or more of these new switches, I can show quite a lot of details on them now, including extreme close-up pictures and a sound test.
Where you located at Chyros? I'm in the US & would be willing to send one your way for testing as long as it's feasible for me to do so. I would offer more but only have 3 switches left over from my build. PM me when you have a chance & we can figure a way to get one to you if you still need one. :thumb:
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 24 March 2017, 04:35:32
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 24 March 2017, 04:55:27
Has anyone found any new mx-clears with the notch in the stems?Do you have a picture of said notch?
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 24 March 2017, 05:26:38
Has anyone found any new mx-clears with the notch in the stems?Do you have a picture of said notch?
I personally don't, but other people in the thread have posted some.
Just wondering if new mx-clears are being made with this new process.
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 24 March 2017, 08:46:54
Has anyone found any new mx-clears with the notch in the stems?Do you have a picture of said notch?
I personally don't, but other people in the thread have posted some.
Just wondering if new mx-clears are being made with this new process.
I believe Cherry revised all the their MX switches with the new stems, but have only seen blacks with them in the wild so far.
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 26 March 2017, 03:52:08
[attachurl=1]
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 28 March 2017, 08:32:56
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Post by: ygor on Tue, 28 March 2017, 08:43:00
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
(https://img.memesuper.com/7e97e43c6c503fda6ee14d766a5dda2d_computer-reaction-faces-know-meme-thinking-face_600-497.jpeg)
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 28 March 2017, 08:44:43
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Other possibilities:
- Cherry's statement is made by a technically uninformed person
- Cherry's statement is a strategic and diplomatic statement, doesn't count as a lie
- Cherry implies all previous versions are non-authentic test products, but just doesn't say that out loud, so the statement is still true
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 28 March 2017, 09:12:04
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Not sure why Cherry is denying their existence? Me, you, & other's have had them in our hands & been inside of the revised switches. Unless my pics are fake as well... I just sent one to Chyros today so we'll see what his take is in a few days.
Post by: justinmtype on Tue, 28 March 2017, 09:34:49
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Why would they lie?
And what exactly is the difference in stems?
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 28 March 2017, 09:39:09
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Not sure why Cherry is denying their existence? Me, you, & other's have had them in our hands & been inside of the revised switches. Unless my pics are fake as well... I just sent one to Chyros today so we'll see what his take is in a few days.
I forgot to tell that I've given them the address of this page, so they've seen the ongoing discussion. This secrecy is even more confusing :confused:
More resources:
https://sketchfab.com/cherryofficial
Post by: chyros on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:14:21
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.I've tried to contact them about this, but they've not responded at all on this.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:35:15
From my testing on vintage blacks, the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:37:47
did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..
From my testing on vintage blacks, the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.
Yes, I tried the new stem in the old housing, and they're just as smooth. Old stem in new housing is just as scratchy.
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:38:45
did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..
From my testing on vintage blacks, the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.
Yes, I tried the new stem in the old housing, and they're just as smooth. Old stem in new housing is just as scratchy.
what sample size have you tested. how many stems, and how many housings.
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:46:21
did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..
From my testing on vintage blacks, the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.
Yes, I tried the new stem in the old housing, and they're just as smooth. Old stem in new housing is just as scratchy.
what sample size have you tested. how many stems, and how many housings.
some
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:52:11
some
[attachimg=1]
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:53:13
I'm sure if we had that interview again now, they would say there was a difference now, might not exactly admit anything about switch smoothness, but im sure they wouldn't deny there is a difference.
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:06:47
What are we talking about cherry lying? If we are talking about back in the community interview they did, it wasn't a lie when they said there wasnt a difference between newer scratchy mx blacks vs vintage blacks. There probably wasn't any difference, cherry was probably just using stupidly old molds that were getting more and more scratchy over time, as well as their QC probably went down as they couldn't properly keep up with demand. I'm sure they knew this, maybe not the person who did the interview, but that isn't exactly something they would admit, even if it was disappointing.
I'm sure if we had that interview again now, they would say there was a difference now, might not exactly admit anything about switch smoothness, but im sure they wouldn't deny there is a difference.
depending on the mold, some molds get smoother with use..
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:21:25
I suppose that is true. But obviously something they were doing was causing them to get more and more scratchy over time. I'd say it could possibly just be a QC issue then, since even some older mx blacks are scratchy. I've only gone through about 300-400 vintage black switches, but id say about 1 in 10 are very scratchy, even after cleaning them up.What are we talking about cherry lying? If we are talking about back in the community interview they did, it wasn't a lie when they said there wasnt a difference between newer scratchy mx blacks vs vintage blacks. There probably wasn't any difference, cherry was probably just using stupidly old molds that were getting more and more scratchy over time, as well as their QC probably went down as they couldn't properly keep up with demand. I'm sure they knew this, maybe not the person who did the interview, but that isn't exactly something they would admit, even if it was disappointing.
I'm sure if we had that interview again now, they would say there was a difference now, might not exactly admit anything about switch smoothness, but im sure they wouldn't deny there is a difference.
depending on the mold, some molds get smoother with use..
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 28 March 2017, 13:19:13
But what if Zealios has already produced revision 3 switches worth of millions?
People will not want to buy any produce with revision 3 switches inside, if Zealios makes such an announcement officially. At least given such an official announcement of improvement, people will definitely prefer revision 4 switches.
If they don't say a single word or even deny it bluntly in a tricky / strategic / diplomatic way, the average consumers will not care too much about which keyboards they are going to get. Only a few of those enthusiasts who investigate and who really want to seek out the truth will get to the details, the details that average consumers do not care as they will just believe in the official narratives of Cherry.
My suggestion is, evidence for the truth has already been emerging, we can continue here to gather more evidence / counter-evidence to prove or to disprove our hypotheses, but we do not need to bother Cherry too much to make any official statement: We do not need to do that unless we are some of the Cherry's competitors. I am already happy enough that seemingly Cherry and Gateron are competing head to head.
We can well keep the investigation going here in GH or in DT or even /r/MK, or even on DT wiki, but keeping the truth (with our documented evidence) just among ourselves the enthusiasts. This should be enough to serve our purpose.
Post by: ygor on Tue, 28 March 2017, 13:33:57
Let's look at the revisions of Zealios switches - Zeal said that revision 3 needs some improvements in a few models, and then came revision 4 from which the specs are pretty much set. He has been very open about that.
But what if Zealios has already produced revision 3 switches worth of millions?
People will not want to buy any produce with revision 3 switches inside, if Zealios makes such an announcement officially. At least given such an official announcement of improvement, people will definitely prefer revision 4 switches.
If they don't say a single word or even deny it bluntly in a tricky / strategic / diplomatic way, the average consumers will not care too much about which keyboard they are going to get. Only a few of those enthusiasts who investigate and who really want to seek out the truth will get to the details, the details that average consumers do not care as they will just believe in the official narratives of Cherry.
My suggestion is, evidence for the truth has already been emerging, but we should not bother Cherry too much to make any official statement, I am already happy enough that seemingly Cherry and Gateron are competing head to head.
We can well keep the investigation going here in GH or in DT or even /r/MK, or even on DT wiki, but keeping the truth (with our documented evidence) just among ourselves the enthusiasts should be enough to serve our purpose.
(http://amazingstoriesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/MDJ_big_brain_alien_thumb.jpg)
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 28 March 2017, 13:55:43
Post by: falkentyne on Tue, 28 March 2017, 16:56:22
Cherry's marketing:
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/173856/87_20fat_20guy_20in_20a_20little_20beach.jpg)
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 28 March 2017, 16:59:27
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 28 March 2017, 17:26:38
Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.
At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)
Not sure why Cherry is denying their existence? Me, you, & other's have had them in our hands & been inside of the revised switches. Unless my pics are fake as well... I just sent one to Chyros today so we'll see what his take is in a few days.
I forgot to tell that I've given them the address of this page, so they've seen the ongoing discussion. This secrecy is even more confusing :confused:
More resources:
https://sketchfab.com/cherryofficial
Thanks for the link! Yeah it is a little odd that Cherry is keeping hush hush about the changes but menuhin & zombimuncha both have a really good point as to why they are being secretive about the revision. It would make sense that they don't want the revised stems to be widely known about right now. I'm sure there is a ton of retailers who have either KBs that have the old blacks or just a bunch of the old black switches themselves in stock waiting to be sold. I'd imagine they would be pretty unhappy if Cherry was shouting from the rooftops about their new revised switches & it caused people to avoid anything with the old stock in it.
When I ordered switches for my latest build I wanted the new Cherry blacks but was concerned about being able to get them. So much so I actually ordered a batch of Gat blacks with my order from Sentraq as back up in case I got old stock blacks from SwitchTop. Thankfully they were the new ones & I was able to put my desired switches into my build, but I am curious as to how widely available the new stock? Also pretty curious if they revised the stems for all of their switches or just the linear line? I ordered 100 tactile greys fro MK.com last night so I'll post some pics of what their stems look/feel like when I get them & try to find some older pics of tactile grey stems if possible.
Let's look at the revisions of Zealios switches - Zeal said that revision 3 needs some improvements in a few models, and then came revision 4 from which the specs are pretty much set. He has been very open about that.
But what if Zealios has already produced revision 3 switches worth of millions?
People will not want to buy any produce with revision 3 switches inside, if Zealios makes such an announcement officially. At least given such an official announcement of improvement, people will definitely prefer revision 4 switches.
If they don't say a single word or even deny it bluntly in a tricky / strategic / diplomatic way, the average consumers will not care too much about which keyboards they are going to get. Only a few of those enthusiasts who investigate and who really want to seek out the truth will get to the details, the details that average consumers do not care as they will just believe in the official narratives of Cherry.
My suggestion is, evidence for the truth has already been emerging, we can continue here to gather more evidence / counter-evidence to prove or to disprove our hypotheses, but we do not need to bother Cherry too much to make any official statement: We do not need to do that unless we are some of the Cherry's competitors. I am already happy enough that seemingly Cherry and Gateron are competing head to head.
We can well keep the investigation going here in GH or in DT or even /r/MK, or even on DT wiki, but keeping the truth (with our documented evidence) just among ourselves the enthusiasts. This should be enough to serve our purpose.
Props on that post :thumb: You make a very convincing argument. I would say on one hand there really is not a huge need to get confirmation from Cherry themselves right now when we already have the evidence that changes have been made. On the other hand it would be nice to have some type of official statement from Cherry, if they were to respond to Giorgio or chyros with conformation of the changes I doubt word would travel far from the enthusiast community.
Honestly though you are right about the reasons they would want to keep it hush hush about the revised stems for now. Also I have to agree that just knowing they finally stepped up & made some changes to keep up with/exceed the competition is really good enough for the enthusiast community. I'm sure in a few months or so once the old stock is just about gone Cherry will start touting their changes, because it really does make for a much smoother & pleasurable switch compared to any older modern Cherry black I have tried before. Even though it was just plain dumb luck I'm pretty happy to have 2 boards with the new blacks so early on TBH. ;D
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 29 March 2017, 05:42:44
http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Post by: testplsignore on Wed, 29 March 2017, 06:49:17
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 29 March 2017, 07:30:41
But there are also details of the finish and observable quality achieved by the manufacturing.
More
Stem's finish:
Left Zealios, Right Cherry brown
(http://i.imgur.com/9MkRTj9.jpg)
Gold crosspoint leaf's finish:
Left Cherry brown, Right Zealios
(http://i.imgur.com/XSLuERR.jpg)
Source:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1847809#msg1847809
And who manufactures Zealios?
ANS: Gateron
Left Zealios, Right Cherry brown
(http://i.imgur.com/9MkRTj9.jpg)
Gold crosspoint leaf's finish:
Left Cherry brown, Right Zealios
(http://i.imgur.com/XSLuERR.jpg)
Source:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1847809#msg1847809
And who manufactures Zealios?
ANS: Gateron
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 March 2017, 13:40:21
Cherry's being lazy and lying again eh?
Cherry's marketing:Show Image(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/173856/87_20fat_20guy_20in_20a_20little_20beach.jpg)
is this photoshopped ?
why's it poofy like that, what's in there. ?
Post by: davkol on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:00:26
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:10:33
Bierbauch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_obesity#Colloquialisms)
no, but in the foto, it's structurally --upright-- even though he's laying flat.. how's the possible ?
Post by: romevi on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:18:00
So--let's pretend I skimmed only the first page. What's the summation? New blacks confirmed?
Post by: davkol on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:19:26
Post by: chyros on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:19:56
Well, tickle all my cheeks. First time coming across this thread.ALL your cheeks?
So--let's pretend I skimmed only the first page. What's the summation? New blacks confirmed?
Post by: romevi on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:23:28
tl;dr probably new molds
Okay, so I skimmed a bit more.
So looks like fresh molds are causing the newest sliders to be smoother since...new molds. And that switchtop supposedly carries the freshest of batches. Can anyone else who's ordered some confirm? If this is the case, I may order some myself to use in my next board instead of vintage blacks.
Well, tickle all my cheeks. First time coming across this thread.ALL your cheeks?
So--let's pretend I skimmed only the first page. What's the summation? New blacks confirmed?
That's what I said!
Post by: ygor on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:25:10
And that switchtop supposedly carries the freshest of batches. Can anyone else who's ordered some confirm? If this is the case, I may order some myself to use in my next board instead of vintage blacks.
I emailed Josh, dude who runs Switchtop, a few days ago. Can confirm, blacks in stock are teh new moldz.
Post by: romevi on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:27:21
And that switchtop supposedly carries the freshest of batches. Can anyone else who's ordered some confirm? If this is the case, I may order some myself to use in my next board instead of vintage blacks.
I emailed Josh, dude who runs Switchtop, a few days ago. Can confirm, blacks in stock are teh new moldz.
Sock me sideways! Vintage blacks, g'bye. New blacks, here I come!
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:37:01
Definitely require more reports.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:14:57
Post by: romevi on Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:21:35
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Where did you order yours from? Is switchtop the only confirmed shop? I'd order from them but no PCB-mount.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:31:37
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Where did you order yours from? Is switchtop the only confirmed shop? I'd order from them but no PCB-mount.
I bought mine from mechanicalkeyboards /shrug
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 30 March 2017, 20:05:25
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M. ;D
On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted :mad: I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 30 March 2017, 20:14:19
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M. ;D
On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted :mad: I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?
what comparison are you saying we should be making visually.. ??
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 30 March 2017, 20:16:53
(This is Re: Rob27shred's post)
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 30 March 2017, 20:21:48
I will say, whoever does the counting at mechanicalkeyboards doesn't have the best eye. I ordered 70 switches and I got 74.
(This is Re: Rob27shred's post)
pretty sure they just weigh it..
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 30 March 2017, 21:13:47
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M. ;D
On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted :mad: I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?
what comparison are you saying we should be making visually.. ??
To the part of the stem that faces away from the metal leaves in the housing, the opposite side of the arms on the stem (the 1st & 4th pics). Looking at pics from the OP that is the major difference on the old vs new blacks. Not sure if there has been any changes to the tactile stems, although these have the same shape as the new black stems.
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 30 March 2017, 21:16:46
I will say, whoever does the counting at mechanicalkeyboards doesn't have the best eye. I ordered 70 switches and I got 74.
(This is Re: Rob27shred's post)
I think tp may be right & they do it by weight but you'd think they make sure to go a bit over like they did with your order. I'm sure they'll make it right, just sucks to only be shorted by 2 switches...
Post by: nugglets on Thu, 30 March 2017, 21:34:01
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M. ;D
On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted :mad: I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?
I think you are confusing the new and old in the OP. Those greys you posted have the old style sliders.
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 30 March 2017, 21:35:05
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 31 March 2017, 03:01:43
Oh god I need these silent grey/blacks
I've just noticed that the silent version of blacks is gray, while the silent version of reds is pink.
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 31 March 2017, 05:29:02
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M. ;D
On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted :mad: I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?
I think these stems have some obvious features that are different from the new one:
New (on the left) has its the non-tactile side much more covered and has only a smaller square shape cut out, compared to the old one (on the right); apart from other things such as the old one has molding ridges on both sides of the stem.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88031.0;attach=162993;image (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88031.0;attach=162993;image)
Post by: keycapper on Mon, 03 April 2017, 10:28:43
More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).
http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml
Have any keyboards been produced with these silent black switches yet?
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 03 April 2017, 11:03:25
More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).
http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml
Have any keyboards been produced with these silent black switches yet?
g80-3494 should be available in a couple of weeks, you can find it on amazon.com; final price will be lower, about $110
Post by: chyros on Mon, 03 April 2017, 12:57:55
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 03 April 2017, 18:26:54
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/d4461fd1d00d5229a6b18b689839d962.jpg
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88594.0
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 03 April 2017, 18:32:23
More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).
http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml
Have any keyboards been produced with these silent black switches yet?
While I haven't de-soldered any switches to 100% confirm I'm pretty sure Leopold is using the "new" blacks. I got a FC600M with Cherry blacks fro mechanicalkeyboards.com almost 2 months ago & the switches are very smooth. I also got a batch from switchtop.com that I did confirm had the new stems which felt identical to the ones in my FC660M.
Although I will say grabbing any KB with Cherry blacks from anywhere right now is most likely a 50/50 crap shoot. There are both old & new blacks in the wild still. This especially holds true with pre-built KBs. To be guaranteed a board has switches with the new stems I would follow Giorgio's advice & wait on the official Cherry boards, or get confirmation from the retailer that a board you're looking at has new stock Cherry switches in it.
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 03 April 2017, 18:39:11
They changed the brown switches too!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/d4461fd1d00d5229a6b18b689839d962.jpg
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88594.0
So that confirms they changed the greys as well! I think they did re-tool their whole line up now after seeing the browns you just posted. The greys I got are pretty damn smooth. In fact smooth enough that I do not think it is worth lubing a board's worth of them with krytox after testing one today. Cherry making a comeback :thumb: :))
Post by: SICAR187 on Fri, 07 April 2017, 01:10:08
Post by: romevi on Fri, 07 April 2017, 01:12:24
Does anyone have a 100% confirmation that MK.com and Winkeyless, both stocking/selling this new design?
I emailed mk.com and they said they don't know.
Post by: SICAR187 on Fri, 07 April 2017, 01:18:49
Does anyone have a 100% confirmation that MK.com and Winkeyless, both stocking/selling this new design?
I emailed mk.com and they said they don't know.
Thnx!
Then Winkeyless is the only one that seem to be confirming stocking/selling the new switches then? Or, am I reading wrong?
Post by: SICAR187 on Fri, 07 April 2017, 01:26:28
I don't know how this applies to RGB MX Blues, but the RGB Blues on the Ducky Shine 6 (and YOTM) are the NICEST RGB blues I've ever seen. I don't know how many of you have new batches of blues/RGB Blues, but you really have to try them. They feel like a completely different manufacturer made the switch, even in comparison to the inconsistent, scratchy, fluttery click RGB Blues on the iKBC F keyboards made last year...and they also feel more tactile and bouncy than both the regular blues and greens on my Ducky Fire 69.
It's probably as close as you'll get to the feel of a buckling spring from a Cherry switch.
1) the tactile bump is more defined than before.
2) there seems to be more resistance in spring weight.
3) the feel of the switch feels more robust (pressing, recoil)
4) the click is deeper pitched and tighter, with far less flutter than older switches (Not every switch is perfect though).
It's literally night and day comparing my Shine 6 vs my iKBC F108.
The iKBC (both of them) were assembled 08/2016 according to the serial# and a stamp on the PCB, but God knows when the switches were produced on it. They're much worse than the Shine 6's blue switches, and Ducky told me that Cherry "improved their manufacturing of blues recently."
Came here from https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88031.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88031.0), I have a POK3R RGB w/ Blacks, they also (unless I'm looking at them wrong) appear to have the "new" design of the slider w/ the notched upside down "U". As seen in the aforementioned post and the 2 Cherry Reds mentioned below by Daniel Beardsmore w/ the 2016 purchase date. I don't have any reference as I've never used vintage Blacks, but my RBGs Blacks are smooth. I'll post some pics tomorrow.
More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).
http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I have a POK3R RGB w/ Blacks, they also (unless I'm looking at them wrong) appear to have the "new" design of the slider w/ the notched upside down "U". They also match the 2 Cherry Reds mentioned below by Daniel Beardsmore w/ the 2016 purchase date, in this post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88594.msg2396718#msg2396718.
I don't have any reference as I've never used vintage Blacks, but my RBGs Blacks are smooth. I'll (try) post some pics tomorrow.
Post by: Fullcream on Fri, 07 April 2017, 03:25:57
It feels at least on par with Gateron smoothness and of course without the wobble of Gateron switches.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:14:04
The original MX RGB Red with the old slider shape does use the new materials. It has the same shiny plastic surface and more vivid pigmentation.
These are not wiki-grade photos, and I used a portable lamp to get better control over the illumination and get in close; I've tried to hold the lamp as best as I can to approximate what human binocular vision affords, but I can't light all three identically to a single camera lens.
L-R: ca. 2013 Red, 2015 RGB Red mk I, 2016 RGB Red mk II:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
You can see how much shinier the original RGB Red is. The new RGB Red slider is still smooth at the sides, but the back is not as smooth and shiny. The the pink silenced slider is smoother than all three -- very smooth and shiny surface.
What's not as clear as it could be in these photos is that the red pigment is more vivid with the new sliders. Edgar Matias did reveal that pigmentation affects smoothness, so maybe they changed pigmentation as part of this process.
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 09 April 2017, 20:11:54
Post by: chyros on Mon, 10 April 2017, 00:59:56
I think that pigment has no role, because new blacks seem to have the same old color.SOME pigments do though.
Post by: ArchDill on Mon, 10 April 2017, 01:15:44
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: testplsignore on Wed, 12 April 2017, 09:13:28
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 12 April 2017, 11:07:50
Is there a way to tell from the top of the switch?
Good question and good observation! :cool:
It seems to me that the new revised stem has the upper edge at an angle, when the previous generation has a stepped edge. One can see such difference when trying to look at the photos more closely:
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88031.0;attach=165271;image)
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 12 April 2017, 17:32:02
In case it's not clear, this is the difference:
[attachimg=1]
Image intentionally terrible ; )
It's fairly subtle and it can't even be made out in my normal photos, as due to the flash I can't get close enough to the subject.
Check out these two though:
http://cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX_SILENT_RED.htm?
http://cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX_SILENT_BLACK.htm?
Open each in a separate tab and flick between the tabs ....
Yeah. Cherry have posted fake photos to their website! Cherry's website is down right now, but I've just checked the datasheets I'd already saved and those have the same fake images. Not only have Cherry faked the photos, but they're doubly false as they don't even have the correct slider shape!
(Edited, as I've just removed the images from the wiki as they're pure garbage.)
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 13 April 2017, 02:48:05
In case it's not clear, this is the difference:So, we can just file our stems, can't we?
(Attachment Link)
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Thu, 13 April 2017, 02:58:53
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 13 April 2017, 05:02:47
Wow, well spotted.
In case it's not clear, this is the difference:
(Attachment Link)
Image intentionally terrible ; )
It's fairly subtle and it can't even be made out in my normal photos, as due to the flash I can't get close enough to the subject.
Check out these two though:
http://cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX_SILENT_RED.htm?
http://cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX_SILENT_BLACK.htm?
Open each in a separate tab and flick between the tabs ....
Yeah. Cherry have posted fake photos to their website! Cherry's website is down right now, but I've just checked the datasheets I'd already saved and those have the same fake images. Not only have Cherry faked the photos, but they're doubly false as they don't even have the correct slider shape!
(Edited, as I've just removed the images from the wiki as they're pure garbage.)
Quite interesting, thank you! I wonder if that portion is the one that impacts on the casing. This could also affect the upstroke sound, but I didn't notice any improvement, so probably the lateral sliders are the one that make the upstroke noise, and that's the part that is modified in the silent switches.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 14 April 2017, 06:48:39
Post by: moonmaster on Tue, 18 April 2017, 23:48:13
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 19 April 2017, 02:36:13
https://plot.ly/~haata/65
You can see that the vintage black switch here is smoother, and the red switch is much rougher.
I assume RGB Black is in the works. No Gateron black yet, but he does have Gateron grey, whatever that is — very strange graph, too.
You should wait for the new graphs, as they're the only presently-available objective assessment of smoothness.
The new RGB MX Red sliders still sound scratchy — they're still nothing like reed or Hall effect switches.
Post by: briancvrrbs on Wed, 19 April 2017, 04:04:16
Does anyone know if Vintage Blacks are smoother than the New Blacks?
Post by: Crossfire on Thu, 20 April 2017, 00:49:29
About to be building a Duck Viper but really want this to be endgame linear (Nixies to tough to acquire).Absoluetly. It's not that simple though...recently I had a chance to try three different cherry g80 boards: serial nr. B, C and F. Which means 1989, 1990 and 1993 boards. All considered vintage.
Does anyone know if Vintage Blacks are smoother than the New Blacks?
89' and 90' are way smoother than 93' board. They're so smooth lube is kind of not neccessary...just a little softer, like 62g springs and you have an endgame switch. As much as 55g are phenomenal, imho they've tend to be a little too soft for me personally...lots of accidental presses.
Post by: cutterline on Thu, 20 April 2017, 02:29:04
About to be building a Duck Viper but really want this to be endgame linear (Nixies to tough to acquire).If you want readily available smooth linear, harvest Gateron's stems. The smoothest is their clear. If you want to know how smooth that stem, just grab cherry clear and check the surface. You can also check it on blue, on the white part that makes click noise.
Does anyone know if Vintage Blacks are smoother than the New Blacks?
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 20 April 2017, 02:30:35
About to be building a Duck Viper but really want this to be endgame linear (Nixies to tough to acquire).If you want readily available smooth linear, harvest Gateron's stems. The smoothest is their clear. If you want to know how smooth that stem, just grab cherry clear and check the surface. You can also check it on blue, on the white part that makes click noise.
Does anyone know if Vintage Blacks are smoother than the New Blacks?
Gaterons wobble too much. Plus there are some small differences from cherry to gaterons, and parts aren't perfectly interchangeable.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 20 April 2017, 02:42:38
Post by: Azaicorp on Fri, 21 April 2017, 03:25:43
However, after I saw this thread I got really excited thinking I must have gotten lucky and got a batch of the new smoother stems from switchtop so I checked my switches. I expected to see the angled upper edge and the new "windowed" stems for the mx clears but neither was present. But the switches undeniable do feel slightly smoother and less rattly(?). I also ordered 1 mx blue and 1 mx black from switchtop with my order of mx clear just to test them out since I'm still new to keyboards. I checked them and sure enough the mx blacks from switch top have the angled upper edge and the windowed stem design and the mx blues also have the angled upper edge so at the very least it seems like mx blues and mx blacks have a new stem design and switchtop has them. However, since the mx clears don't have a clear visual tell I can't be sure if the mx clear stems have been changed to be smoother at all or if its just in my mind. Frankly I don't have the experience or equipment to say with any certainty that mx clears have been changed or to do any investigation of my own.
Therefore could someone with more experience look specifically into mx clears? I'm really interested in this as the new mx clears that I have on my kbd75 feel absolutely amazing and I prefer them over zealios even. What I might do is ask winkeyless if his new mx clears have angled upper edges/windowed stems or not.
Post by: cutterline on Fri, 21 April 2017, 06:07:18
Gaterons wobble too much. Plus there are some small differences from cherry to gaterons, and parts aren't perfectly interchangeable.Source of your claim?
Parts aren't perfectly interchangeable? This is the maddest claim I've heard within this week as I'm writing to you on a keyboard using a gateron clear slider in cherry case switches.
Wobble? As far as I can tell my setup's wobbliness is same as cherry.
Unless you can give me the side movement degree for each cherry, gateron slide-cherry case, and gateron using good enough sampling numbers, your claim is invalid.
I have not used Gaterons, but someone told me that Gaterons have a "weird feeling" bottoming out compared to MX. Something about Gateron using a softer plastic in their slider? This could just be BS though.Maybe it's true, maybe it's BS. There are many factors such as case/slider material and thickness, plate/pcb mount, etc. FYI, my daily driver is 50g spring with gateron clear slider in cherry case, that's really far from stock.
I tried using single switch comparison on my switch tester, I can tell that using same environment (SS304 plate, lubed, 45g, cherry case) cherry red and gateron clear gives you different feeling from the start. I can't really comment on bottoming out feeling because I never really pay attention to bottoming out as I practice not to bottom out (my finger is already accustomed to light switches). I won't say I don't bottom out when typing fast (>90 wpm) but to be honest, at that speed, what kind of maniac cares about bottoming out feeling? Me, myself, my mind is already somewhere else.
However, after I saw this thread I got really excited thinking I must have gotten lucky and got a batch of the new smoother stems from switchtop so I checked my switches. I expected to see the angled upper edge and the new "windowed" stems for the mx clears but neither was present. But the switches undeniable do feel slightly smoother and less rattly(?).
Therefore could someone with more experience look specifically into mx clears? I'm really interested in this as the new mx clears that I have on my kbd75 feel absolutely amazing and I prefer them over zealios even. What I might do is ask winkeyless if his new mx clears have angled upper edges/windowed stems or not.
That's pretty interesting. I already consider mx clear's texture to be very smooth, now someone claims there's a smoother version? What a mad world!
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 21 April 2017, 08:11:34
Gaterons wobble too much. Plus there are some small differences from cherry to gaterons, and parts aren't perfectly interchangeable.Source of your claim?
Parts aren't perfectly interchangeable? This is the maddest claim I've heard within this week as I'm writing to you on a keyboard using a gateron clear slider in cherry case switches.
Wobble? As far as I can tell my setup's wobbliness is same as cherry.
Unless you can give me the side movement degree for each cherry, gateron slide-cherry case, and gateron using good enough sampling numbers, your claim is invalid.
"Your claim is unvalid unless"... get a life.
Linear gateron whites inside a cherry housing wobble more that the already wobbling gateron inside its ****ing housing.
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 21 April 2017, 08:52:33
Can anyone investigate into the new cherry mx clears too?
+1
I have some Clears that I got from mechanicalkeyboards.com at the beginning of last year, and they do not have the new style sliders.
Post by: Fullcream on Mon, 24 April 2017, 21:05:12
Gaterons wobble too much. Plus there are some small differences from cherry to gaterons, and parts aren't perfectly interchangeable.Source of your claim?
Parts aren't perfectly interchangeable? This is the maddest claim I've heard within this week as I'm writing to you on a keyboard using a gateron clear slider in cherry case switches.
Wobble? As far as I can tell my setup's wobbliness is same as cherry.
Unless you can give me the side movement degree for each cherry, gateron slide-cherry case, and gateron using good enough sampling numbers, your claim is invalid.I have not used Gaterons, but someone told me that Gaterons have a "weird feeling" bottoming out compared to MX. Something about Gateron using a softer plastic in their slider? This could just be BS though.Maybe it's true, maybe it's BS. There are many factors such as case/slider material and thickness, plate/pcb mount, etc. FYI, my daily driver is 50g spring with gateron clear slider in cherry case, that's really far from stock.
I tried using single switch comparison on my switch tester, I can tell that using same environment (SS304 plate, lubed, 45g, cherry case) cherry red and gateron clear gives you different feeling from the start. I can't really comment on bottoming out feeling because I never really pay attention to bottoming out as I practice not to bottom out (my finger is already accustomed to light switches). I won't say I don't bottom out when typing fast (>90 wpm) but to be honest, at that speed, what kind of maniac cares about bottoming out feeling? Me, myself, my mind is already somewhere else.However, after I saw this thread I got really excited thinking I must have gotten lucky and got a batch of the new smoother stems from switchtop so I checked my switches. I expected to see the angled upper edge and the new "windowed" stems for the mx clears but neither was present. But the switches undeniable do feel slightly smoother and less rattly(?).
Therefore could someone with more experience look specifically into mx clears? I'm really interested in this as the new mx clears that I have on my kbd75 feel absolutely amazing and I prefer them over zealios even. What I might do is ask winkeyless if his new mx clears have angled upper edges/windowed stems or not.
That's pretty interesting. I already consider mx clear's texture to be very smooth, now someone claims there's a smoother version? What a mad world!
Gaterons wobble much more than cherry mx. It is very obvious. This has been a widespread observation for a long time. You can read about the Zealio switches (made with/by Gateron.) According to member posts, these initially had the same wobble as other Gateron switches and by about the 3rd or 4th GB period the wobble issue was addressed and fixed.
Also @moonmaster. Yes I posted previously that the new mx black feels about the same as Gateron black with their smoothness. New MX black also does not wobble to the degree that Gateron black does and of course spring weight feels a tad heavier on the MX black.
Post by: testplsignore on Sun, 30 April 2017, 11:42:35
I'm loving the feel (even as a Topre fan), is this what vintage blacks are meant to be like?
Post by: reconsiderit on Mon, 01 May 2017, 20:25:22
Gaterons wobble too much. Plus there are some small differences from cherry to gaterons, and parts aren't perfectly interchangeable.Source of your claim?
Parts aren't perfectly interchangeable? This is the maddest claim I've heard within this week as I'm writing to you on a keyboard using a gateron clear slider in cherry case switches.
Wobble? As far as I can tell my setup's wobbliness is same as cherry.
Unless you can give me the side movement degree for each cherry, gateron slide-cherry case, and gateron using good enough sampling numbers, your claim is invalid.I have not used Gaterons, but someone told me that Gaterons have a "weird feeling" bottoming out compared to MX. Something about Gateron using a softer plastic in their slider? This could just be BS though.Maybe it's true, maybe it's BS. There are many factors such as case/slider material and thickness, plate/pcb mount, etc. FYI, my daily driver is 50g spring with gateron clear slider in cherry case, that's really far from stock.
I tried using single switch comparison on my switch tester, I can tell that using same environment (SS304 plate, lubed, 45g, cherry case) cherry red and gateron clear gives you different feeling from the start. I can't really comment on bottoming out feeling because I never really pay attention to bottoming out as I practice not to bottom out (my finger is already accustomed to light switches). I won't say I don't bottom out when typing fast (>90 wpm) but to be honest, at that speed, what kind of maniac cares about bottoming out feeling? Me, myself, my mind is already somewhere else.However, after I saw this thread I got really excited thinking I must have gotten lucky and got a batch of the new smoother stems from switchtop so I checked my switches. I expected to see the angled upper edge and the new "windowed" stems for the mx clears but neither was present. But the switches undeniable do feel slightly smoother and less rattly(?).
Therefore could someone with more experience look specifically into mx clears? I'm really interested in this as the new mx clears that I have on my kbd75 feel absolutely amazing and I prefer them over zealios even. What I might do is ask winkeyless if his new mx clears have angled upper edges/windowed stems or not.
That's pretty interesting. I already consider mx clear's texture to be very smooth, now someone claims there's a smoother version? What a mad world!
Gaterons wobble much more than cherry mx. It is very obvious. This has been a widespread observation for a long time. You can read about the Zealio switches (made with/by Gateron.) According to member posts, these initially had the same wobble as other Gateron switches and by about the 3rd or 4th GB period the wobble issue was addressed and fixed.
Also @moonmaster. Yes I posted previously that the new mx black feels about the same as Gateron black with their smoothness. New MX black also does not wobble to the degree that Gateron black does and of course spring weight feels a tad heavier on the MX black.
I have a switch tester that has both the gateron and cherry MX black on them and its super apparent that the gaterons have a ton more wobble. I had both switches put on the 2u shift and plus (without stabilizers) and you can tell that the gaterons wiggle much more. Still think that the gaterons are much smoother though.
Post by: kconfire on Mon, 08 May 2017, 14:15:37
I just received a second hand mx black fc660m I bought which was advertised as about a month old. Instantly noticed it feels very smooth. just a quick look at the top of the stems in comparison with the old ones and it's obvious that these mx blacks are from the new moulds. I have this right next to an older mx black board and the difference is night and day!
It feels at least on par with Gateron smoothness and of course without the wobble of Gateron switches.
Now when you say new MX blacks is better, you're referring old MX blacks as the one that was believed to be scatchy and all before this new mx black that are apparently smoother?
The old MX black =\ vintage MX black is what I wanted to ask, because I just purchased a bunch of keyboards with vintage mx black switches dating back to 1988, in NIB condition.
Post by: kconfire on Mon, 08 May 2017, 14:20:44
Let me skip to the real questions:
1) Is it now proven that new-new MX blacks are smoother and improved with Cherry's new manufacturing design?
2) If 1) is true, where can I purchase MX blacks? I see some people mentioning TaoBao, but I've recently had a really bad experience with TaoBao and would like to avoid all these sites.
Last week I bought 4 full layout worth keyboards with vintage mx blacks in the year 1988...
I hope I didn't make a stupid mistake when new MX blacks are just so much better lol
Looking at my luck in the past, it looks like new MX blacks will do just fine while I went a little crazy with vintage black switches...
Thanks in advance!
Post by: kconfire on Mon, 08 May 2017, 14:31:27
They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.
Where did you order yours from? Is switchtop the only confirmed shop? I'd order from them but no PCB-mount.
I bought mine from mechanicalkeyboards /shrug
Wait, so the mx blacks mechanicalkeyboards sell is the new-new mx blacks?
Here I come new blacks! lol
Thanks.
Post by: kconfire on Mon, 08 May 2017, 14:38:55
They have PCB mounted and Plate mounted, and I'm assuming if you're building a custom alu keyboards you're most likely be buying the Plate mounted Cherry MX blacks.
I would like to know if anyone has had an experience with the new mx black switch purchase.
If not from MK, where else can I get a new-new mx black switches?
Thanks in advance!!
p.s. - if I can get my hands on new cherry mx blacks, they'll be on my beautiful keyboards and I'll be so happy not having to worry about extracting vintage blacks from dusty and dirty old keyboards..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 08 May 2017, 14:43:40
Post by: kconfire on Mon, 08 May 2017, 14:56:17
Just built a B.Mini with MX Blacks from Winkeyless, can confirm he has the new stems!
I'm loving the feel (even as a Topre fan), is this what vintage blacks are meant to be like?
I have some vintage mx blacks coming on my way.
I can compare between the two and see how they're different if I can get my hands on the new-new cherry mx blacks..
It looks like it's sold out on MechanicalKeyboards.com, but stocks are in at switchTop- has anyone ordered from switchTop and received a new-new Cherry MX blacks?
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 08 May 2017, 19:42:47
Just built a B.Mini with MX Blacks from Winkeyless, can confirm he has the new stems!
I'm loving the feel (even as a Topre fan), is this what vintage blacks are meant to be like?
I have some vintage mx blacks coming on my way.
I can compare between the two and see how they're different if I can get my hands on the new-new cherry mx blacks..
It looks like it's sold out on MechanicalKeyboards.com, but stocks are in at switchTop- has anyone ordered from switchTop and received a new-new Cherry MX blacks?
I can confirm getting the "new" MX blacks from switchtop.com. I ordered a batch about 2 months ago & they were from the new tooling.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 08 May 2017, 23:04:17
Has anyone tried POLISHING the stems ?Never even thought of this. Interesting idea.
Harbor Freight sells a cheap dremel kit with some polishing attachments. Might have to do some experimenting!
Post by: gnmar2723 on Mon, 08 May 2017, 23:05:54
Has anyone tried POLISHING the stems ?
Definitely an interesting idea, but on such a small scale I fell like it would be hard to get consistent results. Worth a shot none the less.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 08 May 2017, 23:45:11
Has anyone tried POLISHING the stems ?Never even thought of this. Interesting idea.
Harbor Freight sells a cheap dremel kit with some polishing attachments. Might have to do some experimenting!
Hahahaha.. that is not how you would do this.
For small plastic parts such as this.. we would take the rock tumbler approach.
Using a hyper-fine polishing compound.. usually some sort of dioxide + oil. Take all the stems, place them into a jar..
Then Tumble this jar slowly for 5 to 10 hours..
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 09 May 2017, 00:54:43
Has anyone tried POLISHING the stems ?
Even if it did work, and it doesn't, by polishing you remove material and you add wobble.
Post by: kconfire on Tue, 09 May 2017, 01:00:14
Just built a B.Mini with MX Blacks from Winkeyless, can confirm he has the new stems!
I'm loving the feel (even as a Topre fan), is this what vintage blacks are meant to be like?
I have some vintage mx blacks coming on my way.
I can compare between the two and see how they're different if I can get my hands on the new-new cherry mx blacks..
It looks like it's sold out on MechanicalKeyboards.com, but stocks are in at switchTop- has anyone ordered from switchTop and received a new-new Cherry MX blacks?
I can confirm getting the "new" MX blacks from switchtop.com. I ordered a batch about 2 months ago & they were from the new tooling.
Thanks for the reply!
I also got an e-mail back from SwitchTop that they in fact do have a re-tooled version of Cherry MX Blacks. :)
Post by: davkol on Tue, 09 May 2017, 05:46:01
Has anyone tried POLISHING the stems ?There's an old thread in Making stuff together, where someone tried _setting stems on fire_ to polish them, and it worked IIRC.
Someone also did mechanically polish browns/clears before lubrication back then.
I don't have time to luck up the exact threads right now.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 09 May 2017, 12:35:37
Post by: davkol on Tue, 09 May 2017, 12:38:17
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 09 May 2017, 13:08:21
I'm not sure, if this is the thread, but flame polishing. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74840)
This "flame-polishing" member njbair, who also ran the late GB of Alpine Winter, eventually converted to mainly use vintage Alps switches, as far as I can tell from his post history. Perhaps after setting his MX on fire for polishing, he somehow really set all his MX switches on fire and simply switched to vintage Alps. :))
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 09 May 2017, 13:10:47
Oh dear.
So he's actually melting the plastic a bit. I can see this working out wonderfully.
Post by: gnmar2723 on Tue, 09 May 2017, 14:02:43
Post by: kconfire on Tue, 09 May 2017, 14:15:36
That's it. I draw the line. I'm never going to use another switch other than lubed vintage blacks. That way, I'll be none the wiser as to what I might be missing.
Now someone from another keyboard community mentioned that new-new MX Blacks in their stock form felt similar to Vintage MX Blacks (NIB condition) found from Wyse terminal keyboards.
Take it with a grain of salt but that means "good" vintage mx black switches are still better. ;)
Post by: gnmar2723 on Tue, 09 May 2017, 14:42:01
Post by: kconfire on Tue, 09 May 2017, 14:52:54
Yeah I still haven't had a chance to try these supposed "better" vintage blacks. I've got tons of NOS wyse from 92' though.
I got me some NIB vintage Wyse keyboards dated for 1988 from eBay, and they are expected to arrive tomorrow by EOD.
I will be putting in a order for these "new" cherry mx black switches so I will be able to compare them.
I also have vintage cherry mx blacks with them still on old dusty PCBs (2 of them) coming from Germany (Apparently they're the G80-1800 series), so I will also be able to compare them altogether.
Post by: gnmar2723 on Tue, 09 May 2017, 15:36:16
Yeah I still haven't had a chance to try these supposed "better" vintage blacks. I've got tons of NOS wyse from 92' though.
I got me some NIB vintage Wyse keyboards dated for 1988 from eBay, and they are expected to arrive tomorrow by EOD.
I will be putting in a order for these "new" cherry mx black switches so I will be able to compare them.
I also have vintage cherry mx blacks with them still on old dusty PCBs (2 of them) coming from Germany (Apparently they're the G80-1800 series), so I will also be able to compare them altogether.
Which board? LINK w/German layout (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Black-Cherry-German-Link-IEPC-Keyboard-Double-Shot-Keys-50-120-000-106-/132155309346?hash=item1ec511fd22:g:ZYAAAOSwrklVbLVI) or WYSE w/Belgian layout? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Wyse-French-ANSI-Keyboard-Double-Shot-Keys-Cherry-Key-Switches-900243-47-/132166372973?hash=item1ec5bace6d:g:spcAAOSwAuNW8acl) I've gotten more than a few of each of those boards from that seller's seemingly endless stash. I also have a G80-3000 in the mail, so I can test those switches when they get here too.
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 09 May 2017, 15:50:13
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 09 May 2017, 15:58:37
Is there anyone interested in sending to haata some silent, new and vintage switches for testing? Having some accurate tests would be great :-) We could raise some money if the delivery is expensive.
Where is HaaTa located?
But we also have to make sure that his gauze is still there, especially if he is also into using fire or acid etc for experimentation.
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 09 May 2017, 17:29:04
Is there anyone interested in sending to haata some silent, new and vintage switches for testing? Having some accurate tests would be great :-) We could raise some money if the delivery is expensive.
Where is HaaTa located?
But we also have to make sure that his gauze is still there, especially if he is also into using fire or acid etc for experimentation.
Deskthority country?
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/how-cherry-has-fallen-t15265.html
Post by: gnmar2723 on Tue, 09 May 2017, 19:20:03
Post by: Faux on Tue, 09 May 2017, 22:02:59
On another note, does anyone know if all mx nature white switches are new stem? I think Zeal commented that they were, however, I got a user to open one up and the stem was not angled like the new stems.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 10 May 2017, 02:29:10
Is there anyone interested in sending to haata some silent, new and vintage switches for testing? Having some accurate tests would be great :-) We could raise some money if the delivery is expensive.
Has he ever indicated that he wants or needs anyone to send him switches? Right now I have no idea what he does and does not have. No doubt once he's caught up with what he does have he'll make it known somehow of which switch types he's been unable to acquire by fair means or foul. I'm assuming that anything that we can find, he's already bought before we did, and that he's more likely to need some of the more obscure parts.
Post by: davkol on Wed, 10 May 2017, 04:06:09
I'd like to point out that I have purchased NIB vintage blacks, and I find them to be much scratchier than used vintage blacks. I guess how hard they are used really has a large effect since I have some mx blacks from a 2004 cop keyboard.I'd like to point out that source and storage matter.
Every single vintage Cherry G80 that I've owned has had butter smooth switches, regardless of wear. Wyse not so much.
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 10 May 2017, 06:08:38
Is there anyone interested in sending to haata some silent, new and vintage switches for testing? Having some accurate tests would be great :-) We could raise some money if the delivery is expensive.
Has he ever indicated that he wants or needs anyone to send him switches? Right now I have no idea what he does and does not have. No doubt once he's caught up with what he does have he'll make it known somehow of which switch types he's been unable to acquire by fair means or foul. I'm assuming that anything that we can find, he's already bought before we did, and that he's more likely to need some of the more obscure parts.
Yes he did. I don't remember in what thread.
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 16 May 2017, 05:21:20
Post by: kconfire on Tue, 16 May 2017, 08:12:13
I'd like to point out that I have purchased NIB vintage blacks, and I find them to be much scratchier than used vintage blacks. I guess how hard they are used really has a large effect since I have some mx blacks from a 2004 cop keyboard.I'd like to point out that source and storage matter.
Every single vintage Cherry G80 that I've owned has had butter smooth switches, regardless of wear. Wyse not so much.
Where do you pick up G80 series with buttery smooth cherry mx blacks?
I've recently purchased 2 NIB Wyse keyboard as well as PCB+Cherry MX Blacks shipping from Germany and they all feel like they got sands in between the parts.
Didn't sound as bad as the new Cherry MX Black, but at this point I'm willing to try out the new-new Cherry MX Black that people supposedly claim are better than the New Cherry MX Black or normal "vintage Cherry MX Black."
Post by: davkol on Tue, 16 May 2017, 08:20:44
Post by: chyros on Tue, 16 May 2017, 08:21:56
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 16 May 2017, 12:08:18
I've made some pictures. I'll post them as soon as I remember. They're.... interesting.
Did you make a video?
Post by: Rayoui on Wed, 17 May 2017, 18:50:37
Also picked up some MX Clears. They are the old style but are notably smoother than the Blacks I received.
Post by: kconfire on Wed, 17 May 2017, 19:27:55
However I had a confirmation from e-mail that Switchtop? has the new-new cherry mx blacks.
Try them and let us know. Someone above in this thread mentioned the SwitchTop does really have new-new blacks.
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 18 May 2017, 06:18:21
Post by: Targa-TV on Sat, 20 May 2017, 10:50:33
Where do you pick up G80 series with buttery smooth cherry mx blacks?
I've recently purchased 2 NIB Wyse keyboard as well as PCB+Cherry MX Blacks shipping from Germany and they all feel like they got sands in between the parts.
Didn't sound as bad as the new Cherry MX Black, but at this point I'm willing to try out the new-new Cherry MX Black that people supposedly claim are better than the New Cherry MX Black or normal "vintage Cherry MX Black."
Did you run some maintenance on the boards before using them? I've recently traded for a couple of G80 and once everything was washed and brushed, man, I'm in linear paradise. Still can't wait for my new switches to arrive so I can compare.
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 21 May 2017, 07:40:29
Where do you pick up G80 series with buttery smooth cherry mx blacks?
I've recently purchased 2 NIB Wyse keyboard as well as PCB+Cherry MX Blacks shipping from Germany and they all feel like they got sands in between the parts.
Didn't sound as bad as the new Cherry MX Black, but at this point I'm willing to try out the new-new Cherry MX Black that people supposedly claim are better than the New Cherry MX Black or normal "vintage Cherry MX Black."
Did you run some maintenance on the boards before using them? I've recently traded for a couple of G80 and once everything was washed and brushed, man, I'm in linear paradise. Still can't wait for my new switches to arrive so I can compare.
My supersmooth g80-1800 in DE layout came from Amazon
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 23 May 2017, 08:19:43
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 23 May 2017, 13:34:06
Has anyone had a Leopold board with these retooled switches yet?
The Leopold FC660M I got from www.mechanicalkeyboards.com back in January of this year came with the new retooled version of MX blacks. This was actually the 1st time I realized something had changed since I was expecting the switches in this to be fairly scratchy until it got broken in. To my surprise they were buttery smooth right out of the box. :eek:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
The 1st pic is just to show that it is a FC660M with Cherry blacks, but in the second pic you can see the top of the stem before the cross for the caps has the new single angle finish that indicates it is in fact a switch produced from the new tooling.
[attach=3]
Here is a pic of a MX tactile grey produced with the old tooling for comparison. See how the top of the stem before the cross for the caps has a stepped finish vs the single angle finish of the new blacks. IME this is the easiest way to tell if a pre-built board that doesn't allow for switch opening has Cherry switches produced with the new or old tooling. :thumb:
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 23 May 2017, 14:27:32
Post by: kconfire on Tue, 23 May 2017, 14:39:27
Where do you pick up G80 series with buttery smooth cherry mx blacks?
I've recently purchased 2 NIB Wyse keyboard as well as PCB+Cherry MX Blacks shipping from Germany and they all feel like they got sands in between the parts.
Didn't sound as bad as the new Cherry MX Black, but at this point I'm willing to try out the new-new Cherry MX Black that people supposedly claim are better than the New Cherry MX Black or normal "vintage Cherry MX Black."
Did you run some maintenance on the boards before using them? I've recently traded for a couple of G80 and once everything was washed and brushed, man, I'm in linear paradise. Still can't wait for my new switches to arrive so I can compare.
My supersmooth g80-1800 in DE layout came from Amazon
Wow, so jelly. lol
Post by: Entropia on Tue, 23 May 2017, 14:55:12
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 23 May 2017, 16:19:34
Oh great, good to know that they exist. I might order one from mykeyboard.eu then. I always wanted to try a Leopold and getting to also try the retooled switches would be awesome. I just hope that their stock isn't too old.
You could try emailing them & see if they know which revision of switches the boards you're interested in are using. Afaik I know though, Cherry is still denying any changes & being very tight lipped about this. So they may not be able to tell you for sure as many people, even ones in the business are still unaware of the newest variant of MX linear switches. I would say it's still a crap shoot buying pre built boards with Cherry linear switches if you're looking to get the newest version of them. Hell it's still a crap shoot buying the switches by themselves unless you can get confirmation TBH. Also right now I'm not sure if the retooled stems are used on all of Cherry's MX lineup or not for sure. I mistakenly reported earlier in this thread that those MX Greys had the retooled stem, but upon further inspection they are definitely of the older variety. :-[
Leopold is good choice for sure though. I got that FC660M right before I got my soldering equipment & started building/modding MKBs to my liking. Compared to any other pre-built MKBs I owned or tried it is definitely the most solid, best feeling one of the lot. So even if you don't get one that has the retooled MX Linears, that is nothing some thin Krytox/krytox mix can't fix if you're handy with a soldering iron & willing to take on a project like that. I was personally really impressed with Leopold's build quality & think it would be worth it, even with the re-tooled linears to give the board that extra bit of polish that'll make it a really great feeling board. I intend on de-soldering all the switches from my 660M so I can lube them & clip/lube the stabs as soon as I re-up on GH's thin Krytox mix. :thumb:
Post by: e_l_tang on Tue, 23 May 2017, 16:20:35
Just received some MX Blacks from mechanicalkeyboards.com. They are the old style switches and are far from what I would consider smooth.Do keycaps get stuck on those MX Clears?
Also picked up some MX Clears. They are the old style but are notably smoother than the Blacks I received.
Post by: Rayoui on Thu, 25 May 2017, 18:42:29
Just received some MX Blacks from mechanicalkeyboards.com. They are the old style switches and are far from what I would consider smooth.Do keycaps get stuck on those MX Clears?
Also picked up some MX Clears. They are the old style but are notably smoother than the Blacks I received.
As far as I know, all Clears have relatively tight stems. If you leave some keycaps on brand new Clears for a couple weeks, they will loosen up a bit and it will be easier to remove them.
Post by: e_l_tang on Thu, 25 May 2017, 20:37:23
I guess yours must not have been made with new molds then.Just received some MX Blacks from mechanicalkeyboards.com. They are the old style switches and are far from what I would consider smooth.Do keycaps get stuck on those MX Clears?
Also picked up some MX Clears. They are the old style but are notably smoother than the Blacks I received.
As far as I know, all Clears have relatively tight stems. If you leave some keycaps on brand new Clears for a couple weeks, they will loosen up a bit and it will be easier to remove them.
Post by: Rayoui on Fri, 26 May 2017, 14:04:13
Also picked up some MX Clears. They are the old style
Post by: e_l_tang on Mon, 29 May 2017, 15:39:10
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 29 May 2017, 15:40:20
Can someone comment on whether the new Brown switches really are smoother and more tactile?
Tactility wouldn't change as the stem shape stays the same.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 30 May 2017, 00:25:00
Can someone comment on whether the new Brown switches really are smoother and more tactile?They shouldn't feel any different other than being smoother.
Perhaps the Browns feel a little snappier since there is not as much scratchiness, as the bump is so tiny in the first place.
Post by: Altis on Thu, 15 June 2017, 14:47:05
Looking for some smooth Cherry linears.
Any word on if the MX Reds have been updated with the smoother stems, or just Black and possibly brown?
I find MX Black a bit heavy but would get them and swap springs if they're smooth.
One thing nobody mentions in Cherry VS Zealios VS Gateron etc is the very different sound they make. Cherry housing seems to make the best sound.
Post by: Targa-TV on Thu, 22 June 2017, 15:37:54
One thing nobody mentions in Cherry VS Zealios VS Gateron etc is the very different sound they make. Cherry housing seems to make the best sound.
If I read this a few months ago I would have laughed because I hadn't found discussions about how the different plastic of the switch housing affect the sound. YET. ;)
Post by: Auslander on Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:54:34
One thing nobody mentions in Cherry VS Zealios VS Gateron etc is the very different sound they make. Cherry housing seems to make the best sound.
I just recently noticed this also, Gateron seems to be a good amount louder than Cherry, so far i like the Cherry sound more.
Post by: Targa-TV on Sat, 24 June 2017, 12:09:34
One thing nobody mentions in Cherry VS Zealios VS Gateron etc is the very different sound they make. Cherry housing seems to make the best sound.
I just recently noticed this also, Gateron seems to be a good amount louder than Cherry, so far i like the Cherry sound more.
Mh. Not good information for me. :( Thank goodness I have so many Cherry switches now, I can swap the housings.
Post by: pab on Sat, 24 June 2017, 17:07:32
Edit: Curious because if not, I'm going to opt for MX Reds or Blacks.
Post by: Altis on Sat, 24 June 2017, 18:47:20
Can anyone confirm that the new Cherry MX Silvers are cast from the new mould?
Edit: Curious because if not, I'm going to opt for MX Reds or Blacks.
Are MX Reds updated?
Post by: pab on Sat, 24 June 2017, 18:51:34
Can anyone confirm that the new Cherry MX Silvers are cast from the new mould?
Edit: Curious because if not, I'm going to opt for MX Reds or Blacks.
Are MX Reds updated?
If you go back a few pages you can see that they're updated.
Post by: pab on Sat, 24 June 2017, 18:56:59
(http://i.imgur.com/sZdIbMq.jpg)
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 24 June 2017, 19:36:28
Post by: pok3rino on Fri, 30 June 2017, 21:34:37
(http://i.imgur.com/DuYqA0E.jpg)
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 01 July 2017, 03:09:40
It appears that the two Pok3rs (non-RGB, non-backlit, black and white models) I purchased from mechanicalkeyboards.com a few weeks ago also have the new tooling, judging by the chamfered edge of the slider, at least.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DuYqA0E.jpg)
Are they smooth?
Post by: SBJ on Sat, 01 July 2017, 05:07:54
It appears that the two Pok3rs (non-RGB, non-backlit, black and white models) I purchased from mechanicalkeyboards.com a few weeks ago also have the new tooling, judging by the chamfered edge of the slider, at least.How are they?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DuYqA0E.jpg)
Post by: pok3rino on Sat, 01 July 2017, 06:50:35
Post by: Altis on Sat, 01 July 2017, 10:54:57
They seem really smooth to me, although my experience is limited (I haven't been able to try the original Cherry Reds or any of their other linear switches prior to the new tooling). A coworker of mine who has a board with the old Cherry Reds tried one of my Pok3rs and said the new switches felt very smooth, similar to Cherry Reds that have been well-worn over a long period of time.
Nice. I really like MX Reds but they're a bit gritty... If it weren't for that, they'd be my favorite linear switch.
Post by: graefeln on Sat, 01 July 2017, 12:38:45
Post by: pon10 on Sat, 01 July 2017, 13:46:15
Edit: So only confirmed is the linear & clicky blues?
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 01 July 2017, 14:08:42
They seem really smooth to me, although my experience is limited (I haven't been able to try the original Cherry Reds or any of their other linear switches prior to the new tooling). A coworker of mine who has a board with the old Cherry Reds tried one of my Pok3rs and said the new switches felt very smooth, similar to Cherry Reds that have been well-worn over a long period of time.
Probably they are the new ones then!
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 01 July 2017, 16:35:06
x5 Kailh Speed Silvers
x10 SMD Gateron Yellows
x10 MX Blacks (switchtop guarantees they're retooled)
I have a hot-swappable keyboard so I'll play around with them for a bit and post my findings here.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 05 July 2017, 16:35:07
The Gateron Yellows and MX Blacks aside from the weighting, feel about the same. Neither are very smooth imo.
Kailh Speeds are the best feeling. Smoother than the Gaterons or Cherry. They're also the less wobbly than the Gaterons but MX Blacks are slightly less wobbly than the Kailhs.
None of these hold a candle to my linear modded Salmons, though.
Post by: _haru on Mon, 10 July 2017, 07:09:15
I bought mine from Sennin32 on eBay.
Post by: gnmar2723 on Mon, 10 July 2017, 18:33:12
I have no idea if this is part of Cherry's retooling, or just an unannounced update, but Cherry MX Whites are now radically different from the old versions. They don't have the inconsistency issues that old versions used to have. They also have gold plated springs that bottom out at 62g in a linear switch (I'm guessing that the actuation is still 55g as before).
I bought mine from Sennin32 on eBay.
Well that's interesting.
Post by: _haru on Mon, 10 July 2017, 19:43:16
I have no idea if this is part of Cherry's retooling, or just an unannounced update, but Cherry MX Whites are now radically different from the old versions. They don't have the inconsistency issues that old versions used to have. They also have gold plated springs that bottom out at 62g in a linear switch (I'm guessing that the actuation is still 55g as before).
I bought mine from Sennin32 on eBay.
Well that's interesting.
Yup, certainly is.
Post by: Sempre on Thu, 13 July 2017, 08:17:08
Post by: cozycat on Wed, 09 August 2017, 00:14:41
Post by: robbles on Wed, 09 August 2017, 10:34:02
Have all switches been retooled? I'm interested in trying Nature Whites, but not if they're using the old tooling...
They always used the new tooling.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 09 August 2017, 10:37:37
Have all switches been retooled? I'm interested in trying Nature Whites, but not if they're using the old tooling...
They always used the new tooling.
Racist against colored old tools..
Post by: Zhuni on Thu, 10 August 2017, 04:51:00
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 10 August 2017, 06:30:11
Not impressed with the new reds. But also they still suffer from some of the switches having that creaky spring feeling in some keys like every other Mx board I've owned. Something I never have on Gaterons and the smoothness isn't even close.Interesting. I found new MX Blacks to be smoother than Gateron Yellows.
Although several of the MX Blacks had creaky springs, where none of the Gaterons suffered.
Post by: Zhuni on Fri, 11 August 2017, 06:24:21
Post by: kconfire on Fri, 11 August 2017, 12:31:44
I am upset that now I have to throw out 2 NIB Wyse keyboards with a bunch of PCB mounted vintage cherry blacks that are nasty and don't have much merit now.. lol
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 11 August 2017, 15:27:19
My new Cherry MX blacks are much more refined/smoother than the old "NIB vintage Wyse keyboard switches."Don't throw them out, I'm sure someone would buy them.
I am upset that now I have to throw out 2 NIB Wyse keyboards with a bunch of PCB mounted vintage cherry blacks that are nasty and don't have much merit now.. lol
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Post by: digi on Sun, 27 August 2017, 13:28:57
http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf
Who sells them?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 27 August 2017, 14:53:05
Are these the new/same blacks that you're talking about?
http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf (http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf)
Who sells them?
Those are just cherry gray switches which are heavier than blacks, they aren't new.
Post by: digi on Sun, 27 August 2017, 14:54:52
Are these the new/same blacks that you're talking about?
http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf (http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf)
Who sells them?
Those are just cherry gray switches which are heavier than blacks, they aren't new.
Woops, copied wrong link.. how about these - http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-1xxx.pdf
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 27 August 2017, 15:10:18
Are these the new/same blacks that you're talking about?
http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf (http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-2xxx.pdf)
Who sells them?
Those are just cherry gray switches which are heavier than blacks, they aren't new.
Woops, copied wrong link.. how about these - http://cherryamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EN_CHERRY_MX1A-1xxx.pdf
I honestly have no idea.
Post by: Rayoui on Sun, 27 August 2017, 20:48:29
Post by: digi on Mon, 28 August 2017, 11:12:18
Cherry may have refreshed their molds but the "new" switches are not being sold under a different part number. They are not differentiating "new" and "old" stems. When stock of older switches is gone I would imagine all newer cherry switches will be using the new molds.
Good point
Post by: digi on Tue, 29 August 2017, 14:55:42
Post by: Soo8 on Tue, 29 August 2017, 14:56:50
Post by: kconfire on Tue, 29 August 2017, 21:56:43
Think I want to try the new blacks with 62g's. Anyone know where to buy the newer-molded black switches?
I've been buying new Cherry MX Blacks (plate mounted) from SwitchTop.
My LZ-CLS will also have the new Cherry MX Blacks with 60g springs :)
Post by: digi on Wed, 30 August 2017, 13:27:06
Cherry may have refreshed their molds but the "new" switches are not being sold under a different part number. They are not differentiating "new" and "old" stems. When stock of older switches is gone I would imagine all newer cherry switches will be using the new molds.
Good point
I confirmed this with Cherry Corp. Any MX switches you purchase now use the new stem (as long as you're not buying old stock).
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 30 August 2017, 16:34:10
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 30 August 2017, 16:41:25
now how in the heck do you know if it is old stock or not. Just have to rely on the vendor to know i guess.
wait 5 years, they run out by then.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 30 August 2017, 16:46:51
Think I want to try the new blacks with 62g's. Anyone know where to buy the newer-molded black switches?Switchtop is selling guaranteed re-tooled MX Blacks, Blues, and Browns.
If you're looking for a really smooth linear the Kailh BOX Black's are even smoother and less wobbly. Although aftermarket springs are not fully compatible.
Post by: digi on Wed, 30 August 2017, 17:36:10
now how in the heck do you know if it is old stock or not. Just have to rely on the vendor to know i guess.
wait 5 years, they run out by then.
Yeah, I would go with a someone who you think moves a lot of volume like Digi-Key or Mouser...or that SwitchTop place that confirms they're the new ones..
Post by: digi on Thu, 07 September 2017, 10:26:33
I've recently purchased on amazon a g80-1800 with black switches. Imagine my suprise when I discovered that it was in ANSI layout (instead of ISO), and it had the smoothest black switches that I've ever tried. There is an enormous difference between those switches and my old g80-3000 and g80-1800. In my opinion they are gateron smooth, without the wobble.
I've opened some of the new switches and replaced the stem of an old switch with the stem of a new one. The switch stays smooth also in the new housing. So the difference is in the stem. When you compare a new switch to the old one, you can definetely see that the sides are smoother, and that on the back of the stem there is a smaller gap, which is identical to the new silent switch.
new switch on the left, old switch on the right:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
the stem of the new cherry mx silent is identical to the new cherry mx black that I have at hand, so the use the same very smooth cast.
(Attachment Link)
here you can see the old linear stems. Look at the stem of reds and blacks, you can clearly the differences between the old reds/ blacks, and the new silent switch, which is identical to the new black that I own :thumb:
Looking at your picture of the new stems, you'll see a small little nub in the middle of the indentation on the top of the stem. From your pictures, it appears the picture of the old blacks don't have that, if that's one of the differentiating factors, I can confirm the mx blacks from Digikey are the new blacks (new molds).
Post by: Altis on Sun, 11 February 2018, 14:21:17
So many options make it difficult to decide. I much prefer the sound of Cherry switches though in general but just wish they were more smooth. Also considering the retooled MX Blacks, though I'd likely change out the springs in them to something lighter (used to MX Red).
Post by: Sup on Sun, 11 February 2018, 15:18:28
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Sun, 11 February 2018, 22:48:31
Glad to see that Cherry is at least improving the designs. Because the blacks i had on my poker 2 sucked ass compared to gateron.Yeah I have nature whites on my pok3r 3 le and they are really nice to type on very quiet and smooth
Post by: johngodsmith on Wed, 18 April 2018, 07:26:08
Post by: johngodsmith on Thu, 07 June 2018, 03:35:32
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 07 June 2018, 04:38:40
If anyone’s interested still, everything but the clears are retooled. I still haven’t seen a retooled clear before but apparently some guys in Vietnam ran a GB for them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been waiting patiently for the retooled Clears :(
Post by: johngodsmith on Thu, 07 June 2018, 05:00:45
SameIf anyone’s interested still, everything but the clears are retooled. I still haven’t seen a retooled clear before but apparently some guys in Vietnam ran a GB for them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been waiting patiently for the retooled Clears :(
Would love to give em a try
Lemme know how they are when you get your hands on some!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 07 June 2018, 05:26:20
SameIf anyone’s interested still, everything but the clears are retooled. I still haven’t seen a retooled clear before but apparently some guys in Vietnam ran a GB for them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been waiting patiently for the retooled Clears :(
Would love to give em a try
Lemme know how they are when you get your hands on some!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Whoever gets them first hopefully will post in here.
Post by: Deephouse_jedi on Thu, 07 June 2018, 14:41:14
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 07 June 2018, 14:59:05
Still not as smooth as Gaterons
It's true, they aren't. However, Cherry switches have less wobble and a (subjectively) better sound. They both have their strengths and weaknesses
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 14 June 2018, 14:25:53
Nothing I tried helped. Tried lubing with thick lube. Tried lubing with thin lube. Tried opening up the switch column with a drill bit. Tried spring swap. Tried STEM SWAP and that didn't even help. It must be some combination of top, stem, and spring causing the scratchiness. I don't know that I would recommend ordering any cherry MX switches at this point to anyone. This is annoying.
Post by: wholypantalones on Thu, 14 June 2018, 14:33:33
Well, this is disappointing. I just got a big order of Cherry blacks from switch top to put in my TKC1800 build. They are scratchy as hell. I have a batch of 80 that I ordered half a year ago from switchtop that put these to shame.
Nothing I tried helped. Tried lubing with thick lube. Tried lubing with thin lube. Tried opening up the switch column with a drill bit. Tried spring swap. Tried STEM SWAP and that didn't even help. It must be some combination of top, stem, and spring causing the scratchiness. I don't know that I would recommend ordering any cherry MX switches at this point to anyone. This is annoying.
Sell them as 'vintage blacks' on mm. :p
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 14 June 2018, 14:46:31
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
The springs are different material. To the left is the older smoother one that has a more brass looking spring. New scratchy on the right has a silver (stainless steel) spring
They do have the exact same stem, as far as I can tell.
Post by: jlee755 on Thu, 14 June 2018, 15:07:44
Here are the new new retooled switches that are just as scratchy as the old. Smooth switch is on the left The one on the right with a new logo are scratch cityI thought retooled switches were supposed to be really smooth?
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The springs are different material. To the left is the older smoother one that has a more brass looking spring. New scratchy on the right has a silver (stainless steel) spring
They do have the exact same stem, as far as I can tell.
That Cherry logo is interesting; do all the retooled ones look like that?
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 14 June 2018, 17:07:25
Here are the new new retooled switches that are just as scratchy as the old. Smooth switch is on the left The one on the right with a new logo are scratch cityI thought retooled switches were supposed to be really smooth?
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The springs are different material. To the left is the older smoother one that has a more brass looking spring. New scratchy on the right has a silver (stainless steel) spring
They do have the exact same stem, as far as I can tell.
That Cherry logo is interesting; do all the retooled ones look like that?
The one that I'm saying is smooth is a "retooled" version from switchtop that I bought about 1/2 a year ago
The scratchy one with the new logo, I just ordered this week from the same vendor. Supposedly "retooled," but markedly scratchier.
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 14 June 2018, 17:33:47
Well, this is disappointing. I just got a big order of Cherry blacks from switch top to put in my TKC1800 build. They are scratchy as hell. I have a batch of 80 that I ordered half a year ago from switchtop that put these to shame.
Nothing I tried helped. Tried lubing with thick lube. Tried lubing with thin lube. Tried opening up the switch column with a drill bit. Tried spring swap. Tried STEM SWAP and that didn't even help. It must be some combination of top, stem, and spring causing the scratchiness. I don't know that I would recommend ordering any cherry MX switches at this point to anyone. This is annoying.
This is interesting because in my experience the stern is where the scratchiness is. Stem transplant simply made the switch smoother.
I really doubt that the spring has any influence though.
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 14 June 2018, 17:38:15
Didn't we have a cherry representative in this thread?
Post by: Altis on Wed, 20 June 2018, 08:41:47
Here are the new new retooled switches that are just as scratchy as the old. Smooth switch is on the left The one on the right with a new logo are scratch cityI thought retooled switches were supposed to be really smooth?
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The springs are different material. To the left is the older smoother one that has a more brass looking spring. New scratchy on the right has a silver (stainless steel) spring
They do have the exact same stem, as far as I can tell.
That Cherry logo is interesting; do all the retooled ones look like that?
The one that I'm saying is smooth is a "retooled" version from switchtop that I bought about 1/2 a year ago
The scratchy one with the new logo, I just ordered this week from the same vendor. Supposedly "retooled," but markedly scratchier.
That's disappointing to hear.
So we effectively now have precisely the same problem with retooled MX switches as with vintage ones.
Post by: wholypantalones on Wed, 20 June 2018, 10:32:43
Here are the new new retooled switches that are just as scratchy as the old. Smooth switch is on the left The one on the right with a new logo are scratch cityI thought retooled switches were supposed to be really smooth?
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The springs are different material. To the left is the older smoother one that has a more brass looking spring. New scratchy on the right has a silver (stainless steel) spring
They do have the exact same stem, as far as I can tell.
That Cherry logo is interesting; do all the retooled ones look like that?
The one that I'm saying is smooth is a "retooled" version from switchtop that I bought about 1/2 a year ago
The scratchy one with the new logo, I just ordered this week from the same vendor. Supposedly "retooled," but markedly scratchier.
That's disappointing to hear.
So we effectively now have precisely the same problem with retooled MX switches as with vintage ones.
Not necessarily, and let's not jump to conclusions because of one batch. If we've learned anything in this hobby it's that switches are inconsistent sometimes, especially Cherry switches.
I have a plethora of retooled switches and none of them are scratchy. I wouldn't necessarily take it to heart that all "retooled" switches from Switchtop are definitely going to all be retooled, they might have received an old batch or something.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 20 June 2018, 11:40:10
Again, this batch does seem to have the new stem design. When i take the stems of the two out, I can't see a difference in them.
On the right is what my newest order of "retooled" blacks from switchtop had for a logo. Honestly, it looks almost like a knock-off. Wrong font-weight (taller x-height on the font, too) and lack of detail on the cherry fruit image.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: wholypantalones on Wed, 20 June 2018, 14:36:23
Does anyone else have "retooled" switches that have this new logo on top? That's one question that might help clear things up. The retooled one on the left from earlier in the year seems shinier in this photo but I think it's because they are at different angles from the light source. To my eye the appear to be made from the same material.
Again, this batch does seem to have the new stem design. When i take the stems of the two out, I can't see a difference in them.
On the right is what my newest order of "retooled" blacks from switchtop had for a logo. Honestly, it looks almost like a knock-off. Wrong font-weight (taller x-height on the font, too) and lack of detail on the cherry fruit image.
(Attachment Link)
Those are the same logos that were on the silent blacks from the group buy a few months back where the springs were all wrong. Those were kinda scratchy too.
All of my retooled blacks have the smaller logo on the left, many of the older switches I have come across (Filco from 2 years ago) have the bigger logo and they aren't retooled. I've had 2 newer FC980M boards with "retooled" black in the past 6 months, and half of those switches were scratchy as well.
It's possible that Cherry is getting rid of some old stock housings.
Post by: josephchoi on Thu, 21 June 2018, 23:03:22
1. MX clear with new fonts switch top
[attachimg=1]
Opened it , the switch stem seems to be the old one
[attachimg=2]
I found that its not so scratchy, even quite smooth (It's my first batch of MX clear switches, I don't have other for comparison)
The stem surface look quite smooth, not so grainy feel as the old blacks
I have tried to lube it using dupont silicone lubricant /w teflon, the effects is minimal (still no match for zealios though)
I think this should be the retooled clears?
2. MX red with old fonts switch top
[attachimg=3]
The switch stem is a new one with small gap at front
[attachimg=4]
So it shall be the retooled one? However, I found this switch quite scratchy :eek:
3. MX black with new fonts switch top
[attachimg=5]
The switch stem is a new one with small gap at front
[attachimg=6]
New fonts and new stem, is it smooth? Yes, very smooth, much smoother than previous reds.
Conclusion?
It seems that the fonts on switch top is determining whether the switch is retooled or not :eek:
Post by: tomasG2 on Sat, 23 June 2018, 15:28:26
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 23 June 2018, 15:54:12
How do I know which keyboard has the new stems?
I got two cherry g80 3000 with blacks and they all had the new switches. Apart from that I'm not sure which brand stock the new switches. The difference is quite clear, so you could probably find a patient vendor.
Post by: mkarlsson on Sun, 19 August 2018, 10:10:01
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a-11nw-1/cherry-americas-llc
In fact there are two different "items" for the same product at different price:
https://www.arrow.com/es-mx/products/mx1a-11nw/cherry-americas-llc
They have a lot more stock from the cheap one, wil it be the old stock?
I ordered a bunch of the cheap ones to see if I am lucky and get the retooled ones. We will see...
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 19 August 2018, 10:30:23
If anybody is interested there are Cherry blacks on Mouser at 0.20$:
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a-11nw-1/cherry-americas-llc
In fact there are two different "items" for the same product at different price:
https://www.arrow.com/es-mx/products/mx1a-11nw/cherry-americas-llc
They have a lot more stock from the cheap one, wil it be the old stock?
I ordered a bunch of the cheap ones to see if I am lucky and get the retooled ones. We will see...
Let us know
Post by: mkarlsson on Sun, 19 August 2018, 10:40:15
If anybody is interested there are Cherry blacks on Mouser at 0.20$:
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a-11nw-1/cherry-americas-llc
In fact there are two different "items" for the same product at different price:
https://www.arrow.com/es-mx/products/mx1a-11nw/cherry-americas-llc
They have a lot more stock from the cheap one, wil it be the old stock?
I ordered a bunch of the cheap ones to see if I am lucky and get the retooled ones. We will see...
Let us know
I will
Post by: radish on Tue, 21 August 2018, 10:42:31
tuned they are better but not by much. 1st time i used them in a customer build, i wasn't impressed. in fact I'm a little disappointed.
Post by: fer.real on Tue, 21 August 2018, 10:58:07
I did just get a batch of clears and they are unbelievably scratchy. Like nails on a chalkboard.
Post by: radish on Tue, 21 August 2018, 10:59:42
Post by: wholypantalones on Tue, 21 August 2018, 14:02:13
hmm yes if that's the case I'm really confused. they have the new housing... i guess we can expect vintage and old clear switch prices to sky rocket.
Only if you pay the sky rocket prices.
Post by: Sup on Tue, 21 August 2018, 14:45:03
Post by: radish on Tue, 21 August 2018, 17:18:23
hmm yes if that's the case I'm really confused. they have the new housing... i guess we can expect vintage and old clear switch prices to sky rocket.
Only if you pay the sky rocket prices.
amen to that. i hope I'm never that desperate. ya'll got any of em mx clears in stock?
Post by: wholypantalones on Tue, 21 August 2018, 19:19:33
hmm yes if that's the case I'm really confused. they have the new housing... i guess we can expect vintage and old clear switch prices to sky rocket.
Only if you pay the sky rocket prices.
amen to that. i hope I'm never that desperate. ya'll got any of em mx clears in stock?
Switchtop and a few others have them @ 60 cents a piece but you can usually grab a handful here and there from those who realized they don't like clears for about 45 cents a peice on /r/artisanmarket
Post by: mkarlsson on Wed, 22 August 2018, 12:59:25
If anybody is interested there are Cherry blacks on Mouser at 0.20$:
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a-11nw-1/cherry-americas-llc
In fact there are two different "items" for the same product at different price:
https://www.arrow.com/es-mx/products/mx1a-11nw/cherry-americas-llc
They have a lot more stock from the cheap one, wil it be the old stock?
I ordered a bunch of the cheap ones to see if I am lucky and get the retooled ones. We will see...
Let us know
I will
Got my order from Arrow. The switches have the old enclosure and the new stems. It is less scratchy that the old ones for sure. Not bad for the price.
Post by: reconsiderit on Sat, 25 August 2018, 05:14:25
If anybody is interested there are Cherry blacks on Mouser at 0.20$:
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a-11nw-1/cherry-americas-llc
In fact there are two different "items" for the same product at different price:
https://www.arrow.com/es-mx/products/mx1a-11nw/cherry-americas-llc
They have a lot more stock from the cheap one, wil it be the old stock?
I ordered a bunch of the cheap ones to see if I am lucky and get the retooled ones. We will see...
Let us know
I will
Got my order from Arrow. The switches have the old enclosure and the new stems. It is less scratchy that the old ones for sure. Not bad for the price.
How do you tell the old housings from the new ones?
Post by: mkarlsson on Sat, 25 August 2018, 06:32:32
If anybody is interested there are Cherry blacks on Mouser at 0.20$:
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/mx1a-11nw-1/cherry-americas-llc
In fact there are two different "items" for the same product at different price:
https://www.arrow.com/es-mx/products/mx1a-11nw/cherry-americas-llc
They have a lot more stock from the cheap one, wil it be the old stock?
I ordered a bunch of the cheap ones to see if I am lucky and get the retooled ones. We will see...
Let us know
I will
Got my order from Arrow. The switches have the old enclosure and the new stems. It is less scratchy that the old ones for sure. Not bad for the price.
How do you tell the old housings from the new ones?
Take a look at post #290 by pixelpusher. The logo is different. Left the old one and new on the right.
Post by: ThomasTH on Sun, 26 August 2018, 12:31:23
Post by: OracleKev on Sun, 26 August 2018, 22:17:58
Post by: reconsiderit on Mon, 27 August 2018, 01:04:51
These seem to have the old tops (with the bolder cherry logo) but with the shiny silver spring and not the copper looking one. Shouldn't be an issue as I'm planning to swap these over anyways.
Post by: Lansky on Mon, 01 October 2018, 04:45:06
The old one is on the left, the new retooled on the right:
(https://i.imgur.com/LSPjC8e.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eNzxgG7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4jVsiQd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A8mZ3V1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/M4EnJma.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kKKyDmI.jpg)
Post by: Visionaire on Mon, 01 October 2018, 08:15:08
I ordered 200 retooled MX Blacks (MX1A-11NW-1) from Arrow when they were 20c a piece. I took some comparison shots of an old MX Black I had laying around. The new ones have the old bold logo, but the stem is different and looks significantly smoother than the old one, at least judging by the shine of the plastic.
The old one is on the left, the new retooled on the right:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LSPjC8e.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/eNzxgG7.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/4jVsiQd.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/A8mZ3V1.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/M4EnJma.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kKKyDmI.jpg)
Thanks for posting these. Do you know if the retooling affected the housings too, or just the stems?
Post by: Lansky on Mon, 01 October 2018, 16:13:57
Thanks for posting these. Do you know if the retooling affected the housings too, or just the stems?
No problem! As far as I can tell, the housings are identical except for the font and maybe the texture of the plastic. There doesn't seem to be any changes to the leafs either.
Post by: killyou on Mon, 15 October 2018, 10:25:46
Post by: wholypantalones on Mon, 15 October 2018, 10:56:16
Hello. I have a fairly new keyboard with Cherry MX Blues. How do I tell whether they are the old or retooled stock? Thanks!
You can't unless you can get a really good look at the stem out of the housing..
Post by: mkarlsson on Mon, 15 October 2018, 15:37:18
Hello. I have a fairly new keyboard with Cherry MX Blues. How do I tell whether they are the old or retooled stock? Thanks!
You can't unless you can get a really good look at the stem out of the housing..
Yes you can, retooled casing has a different logo (thinner lettering) and the stem has no step on the upper external border. Also, the blue color is kind of deeper.
Post by: mkarlsson on Fri, 19 October 2018, 18:32:45
Were you guys aware of these three different logos on the cherry switch enclosure?
This is the old classic logo:
(https://i.imgur.com/3STOTqU.jpg)
Cherry MX black (MX1A-11NW)
This one I thought it was the one after the retooling (lettering not matching the company's logo):
(https://i.imgur.com/bUCHCmF.jpg)
Cherry MX Silent Red (MX3A-L1NN)
And now this one that I was not aware of:
(https://i.imgur.com/zW4F6Oz.jpg)
Cherry MX Clear (MX1A-C1NN)
This last one has the current modern logo from Cherry.
Am I totally lost about this?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 19 October 2018, 19:14:03
Post by: mkarlsson on Fri, 19 October 2018, 19:23:14
You can see that it has characteristics from the older black one and the newest red one:
(https://i.imgur.com/KoMlR7O.jpg)
Post by: wholypantalones on Fri, 19 October 2018, 21:52:11
(https://imgur.com/ZudrU01.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KpNdjfJ.jpg)
Post by: mkarlsson on Sat, 20 October 2018, 04:30:38
Retooled vs vintage. Slight bevel on the stem and logo are the only differences. I can swap stems around and you can't really tell which is which..Show Image(https://imgur.com/ZudrU01.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KpNdjfJ.jpg)
Not in that picture for sure. But if you take a good side picture you should be able to tell.
Here is an example:
(https://i.imgur.com/11oN0tQ.jpg)
Clear non retooled stem
(https://i.imgur.com/XTItEpk.jpg)
Red retooled stem
Post by: romevi on Mon, 22 October 2018, 23:54:32