The Toxic set [restructuring with ctrl alt store]

[BunnyLake]

I'm very happy with the decision to go through Ctrl Alt Store. I'm bummed that it won't be with GMK, but it's great to see that this is finally about to happen 

ill make a better announcement post from our point of view at some point, but in regards to this post specifically, this set is all about this specific colorway, we just cant get it from gmk, we as ctrl alt were gonna move over from sp to gmk after raindrop, but this set has to happen, and its a great set to go out on, but gmk will be next after this from me, and we will be turning toxic around quick for everyone so it finally happens

we are adding some niceties to the set that come as standard with ctrl alt buys as well as some other keys and layout related stuff, ill get some new mockups to people asap and once they are locked in, the buy will go up

Thank you for taking over this GB!

I am always happy with the perfect service you and your team provide 


I am wondering what this will mean for the prices - can you elaborate on that? I assume you will have fixed prices again right?

I mean I'll gladly pay a little extra for your premium service, but it shouldn't be too far away from the price breaks in the OP.
I basically ordered one of everything because it was dirt cheap, but I will think twice about re-ordering a numpad if it's 25$ instead of 6,64$ and so on...

Don't get me wrong, this is not meant to critisize your pricing system! I just want to point out that the huge order numbers in the OP are partly due to the attractive prices and might drop considerably if they change too much.

thanks for the kind words sir

and the pricing is a valid point and one that isnt set yet

firstly we are gonna be adding lots of stuff, and secondly there is no way in the world this is gonna do anything like the numbers listed in the OP

i am gonna get the mock ups finalized and get the new quotes and see where we sit now, and work it out form there, i think the truth is its gonna fall somewhere between the 2 structures

itll be very interesting to see how this set is at the end of ordering, however i expect the 600 sets ordered to be a significant percentage lower, my gut says 150 - 250 sets will be sold, but i could be very surprised

that isnt taking anything away from the buy, i just think the buy has been up so long, so many people wwill have come and gone, and lots more will cancel or have changed there tastes etc, we shall see

but please be aware that your point was and is a consideration of mine going into this, im entering this as someone much like everyone else, my first 2 gbs i signed up for here on gh were toxic, and the toro buy, the toro buy got cancelled, and i just want this one to be made, and now it is

[LechnerDE]

Thanks for your reply!

Ha! Toxic was my first GB here on Geekhack as well. I bridged the waiting time by buying ~25 other keysets in the meantime

[Elrick]

itll be very interesting to see how this set is at the end of ordering, however i expect the 600 sets ordered to be a significant percentage lower, my gut says 150 - 250 sets will be sold, but i could be very surprised

that isnt taking anything away from the buy, i just think the buy has been up so long, so many people wwill have come and gone, and lots more will cancel or have changed there tastes etc, we shall see

Exactly everyone's taste changes over time, hence the original Group Buy had a lot of people signing up.  But even then if they called in for payment probably half would of jumped ship.

But that's normal for every Group Buy run here.  I have never seen 100% pick-up on orders when first placed.

But we haven't had a Green and Black colour-way just yet and this is really needed here.  It will go with just about anything and you desperately need to get this baby going all the way.  Just let us know when the ordering will start and we'll be there with our gaped wallets  .

[HendyZone]

Thanks for your reply!

Ha! Toxic was my first GB here on Geekhack as well. I bridged the waiting time by buying ~25 other keysets in the meantime

25 other keyset lol )

[LechnerDE]

Thanks for your reply!

Ha! Toxic was my first GB here on Geekhack as well. I bridged the waiting time by buying ~25 other keysets in the meantime

25 other keyset lol )

And 25 mechanical keyboards (one Leopold from you!) ... I know I am an addict 

[BunnyLake]

ok

so addressing some costings

we are about to start the mockups

i have 2 ideas and im happy to go either way based on a some feedback from you guys

would you like

A. a very full featured set with lots of extras in there relevant packs (how we normally do things)

or because people may wanna keep the price low

B. super stripped back basic kits, then separate packs of additional keys for those packs

[lcs]

ok

so addressing some costings

we are about to start the mockups

i have 2 ideas and im happy to go either way based on a some feedback from you guys

would you like

A. a very full featured set with lots of extras in there relevant packs (how we normally do things)

or because people may wanna keep the price low

B. super stripped back basic kits, then separate packs of additional keys for those packs

I would like B

[HendyZone]

ok

so addressing some costings

we are about to start the mockups

i have 2 ideas and im happy to go either way based on a some feedback from you guys

would you like

A. a very full featured set with lots of extras in there relevant packs (how we normally do things)

or because people may wanna keep the price low

B. super stripped back basic kits, then separate packs of additional keys for those packs

I vote for A

[bumgrapes]

I vote for B

[LechnerDE]

I prefer full featured sets just to be safe for every layout, but I think keeping prices low should be a major concern to maintain most of the orders.

The problem with separated mini kits is that they are pretty expensive because they only attract a very small number of people who need these special keys.

Therefore I think you should offer one main set for a fullsize keyboard (104 key) and 1-2 huge extra sets like "Mod Pack" and "Novelty Pack". This way we can use the buying power the best I think.

The Mod Pack could contain Tsangan, ISO, Ergodox, HHKB support etc. I am only interested in the ISO Pack which historically is ~25$ for 4 keys because only ~20 people order it, but I would gladly pay ~50$ for the huge Mod Pack that includes the ISO keys and all the extra stuff just because ~150 people chip in and help each other reach better prices.

Sure, people will complain (as always) that they have to pay for a couple of keys they don't need, but in the end everybody profits because we subsidize eachother's kit by combining buying power for better price tiers.

[riotonthebay]

I agree with LechnerDE. Additionally, a spacebar pack that includes 6.25x and 7x spacebars would be great. (And would, I think, get tons of orders even though it's a small pack because everyone wants extra spacebars.)

[BunnyLake]

I prefer full featured sets just to be safe for every layout, but I think keeping prices low should be a major concern to maintain most of the orders.

The problem with separated mini kits is that they are pretty expensive because they only attract a very small number of people who need these special keys.

Therefore I think you should offer one main set for a fullsize keyboard (104 key) and 1-2 huge extra sets like "Mod Pack" and "Novelty Pack". This way we can use the buying power the best I think.

The Mod Pack could contain Tsangan, ISO, Ergodox, HHKB support etc. I am only interested in the ISO Pack which historically is ~25$ for 4 keys because only ~20 people order it, but I would gladly pay ~50$ for the huge Mod Pack that includes the ISO keys and all the extra stuff just because ~150 people chip in and help each other reach better prices.

Sure, people will complain (as always) that they have to pay for a couple of keys they don't need, but in the end everybody profits because we subsidize eachother's kit by combining buying power for better price tiers.

ill lay out my plan a bit more

so i think the way to do it to keep the cost down will be this

offer, alphas, 2 mod kits, 2 tsangan, 1 numpad with both colors, 1 iso with boths colors, but have all those ktis stripped just to the minimum

on the iso note, we will be offering it with full legends, and ill make it cheaper and this time so its in line with the other prices and build that in my end

then

offer 1 large pack for all the niceties, so if people want fully featured, its just 1 big addon, but for people that literally jsut want a tenkeyless set with no extra keys, thats what they get with base and mods for instance

[BunnyLake]

I agree with LechnerDE. Additionally, a spacebar pack that includes 6.25x and 7x spacebars would be great. (And would, I think, get tons of orders even though it's a small pack because everyone wants extra spacebars.)

i have actually ordered extra spacebars with nostalgia, penumbra and raindrop, which ive included at no extra cost with those sets

however on that note, this buy will actually have other options for spacebars as well, im working out how to include those now or offer them as a separate pack at the moment

we are currently working on the mokcups right now

[riotonthebay]

i have actually ordered extra spacebars with nostalgia, penumbra and raindrop, which ive included at no extra cost with those sets

You're a champ, Bunny!

however on that note, this buy will actually have other options for spacebars as well, im working out how to include those now or offer them as a separate pack at the moment

we are currently working on the mokcups right now

Sounds great.

[justnits]

ok

so addressing some costings

we are about to start the mockups

i have 2 ideas and im happy to go either way based on a some feedback from you guys

would you like

A. a very full featured set with lots of extras in there relevant packs (how we normally do things)

or because people may wanna keep the price low

B. super stripped back basic kits, then separate packs of additional keys for those packs

A if i like the extra stuff (wait, what are the extra stuff?)

B if the extra stuff doesn't suit my taste AND/OR my wallet disagree with me

[LechnerDE]

I prefer full featured sets just to be safe for every layout, but I think keeping prices low should be a major concern to maintain most of the orders.

The problem with separated mini kits is that they are pretty expensive because they only attract a very small number of people who need these special keys.

Therefore I think you should offer one main set for a fullsize keyboard (104 key) and 1-2 huge extra sets like "Mod Pack" and "Novelty Pack". This way we can use the buying power the best I think.

The Mod Pack could contain Tsangan, ISO, Ergodox, HHKB support etc. I am only interested in the ISO Pack which historically is ~25$ for 4 keys because only ~20 people order it, but I would gladly pay ~50$ for the huge Mod Pack that includes the ISO keys and all the extra stuff just because ~150 people chip in and help each other reach better prices.

Sure, people will complain (as always) that they have to pay for a couple of keys they don't need, but in the end everybody profits because we subsidize eachother's kit by combining buying power for better price tiers.

ill lay out my plan a bit more

so i think the way to do it to keep the cost down will be this

offer, alphas, 2 mod kits, 2 tsangan, 1 numpad with both colors, 1 iso with boths colors, but have all those ktis stripped just to the minimum

on the iso note, we will be offering it with full legends, and ill make it cheaper and this time so its in line with the other prices and build that in my end

then

offer 1 large pack for all the niceties, so if people want fully featured, its just 1 big addon, but for people that literally jsut want a tenkeyless set with no extra keys, thats what they get with base and mods for instance

I totally trust your decision making Bunny!

These kits sound reasonable to me 

[Elrick]

I totally trust your decision making Bunny!

These kits sound reasonable to me 

Yep I'm with him.  You've run so many Group Buys by now Bunny that you should get a feeling for what's popular around here on Geekhack.  I love having the option of a COMPLETE pack with all the goodies and then the plain (stripped) ones which suit the smaller budgets.

I suspect you may even have to drop the Complete Packs due to little interest (maybe due to cost) and the smaller packs will end up going to SP for manufacture.  I hope that doesn't happen because the BIG packs have all the custom keys that hold real interest and value over time.

[BunnyLake]

I totally trust your decision making Bunny!

These kits sound reasonable to me 

Yep I'm with him.  You've run so many Group Buys by now Bunny that you should get a feeling for what's popular around here on Geekhack.  I love having the option of a COMPLETE pack with all the goodies and then the plain ones which suit the smaller budgets.

I suspect you may even have to drop the Complete Packs due to little interest (maybe due to cost) and the smaller packs will end up going to SP for manufacture.  I hope that doesn't happen because the BIG packs have all the custom keys that hold real interest and value over time.

if i run a buy sir

all packs get made

no matter what numbers they hit

[elton5354]

I'd rather have SP handle it.  Things get done much more quicker and there is no need for a middle man to handle this.

[Elrick]

if i run a buy sir

all packs get made

no matter what numbers they hit

Damn Bunny, now you know why we have this mutual admiration society going here for you  .

[Elrick]

I'd rather have SP handle it.  Things get done much more quicker and there is no need for a middle man to handle this.

So you've already got your current key-set from them?  Then show the pics instead of glorifying them to death here on Geekhack.

[LechnerDE]

I'd rather have SP handle it.  Things get done much more quicker and there is no need for a middle man to handle this.

We don't know this yet. There are so many potential problems in a GB that I am glad a guy like Bunny silently solves them for me in the background and I get my complete set after a reasonable amount of time.

What happens if there is a ****ed up legend like on the ISO Enter Key in the Nostalgia GB? Whap happens if there are missing keycaps? Will SP replace them and make new Enter keys with no extra costs just like Bunny did?

I won't even save money without having Bunny as a middle man, because I am looking at 20% extra import taxes if I get direct shipments from SP (the real value of the caps will be declared on the box!).

[BunnyLake]

i think this is an argument for somewhere else

i think there are problems with both systems, but my opinion on everything is we should keep as much within our community as we possibly can

[HendyZone]

I'd rather have SP handle it.  Things get done much more quicker and there is no need for a middle man to handle this.

We don't know this yet. There are so many potential problems in a GB that I am glad a guy like Bunny silently solves them for me in the background and I get my complete set after a reasonable amount of time.

What happens if there is a ****ed up legend like on the ISO Enter Key in the Nostalgia GB? Whap happens if there are missing keycaps? Will SP replace them and make new Enter keys with no extra costs just like Bunny did?

I won't even save money without having Bunny as a middle man, because I am looking at 20% extra import taxes if I get direct shipments from SP (the real value of the caps will be declared on the box!).

Yeah same with you (the real value of the caps will be declared on the box!)

I still prefer Bunny and his team running this
with his system

[justnits]

I'd rather have SP handle it.  Things get done much more quicker and there is no need for a middle man to handle this.

to be honest, i'd rather have bunny do it even if SP's groupbuy is faster.
reason is, there is flexibility in shipping method, which is what we asians and non-US people need.
we just have to PM the friendly bunny and he'll help us out.
with SP, u can't consolidate your orders into one shipment (that was few weeks ago, not sure about now, but if you know they have changed their shipping method, do let us know) and ship to one address so we can save on shipping cost AND save on tax, at least for myself and my friends in Malaysia.

right now, SP's groupbuy is suitable for those groupbuy non-US organizers or those who don't have the time and resources to handle large gb.
that's the only advantage SP's groupbuy has as of now from the way i see it.

[danielucf]

As long as the toxic numrow stripe is available somehow the kits can be structured how ever they make sense. I wish more sets had numrow accents because they look good on 80%, 75%, and 60% layouts no matter what. At one point I was considering toxic alphas and a few people requested it. Not sure if that would make this too crazy and a 200+ key set if you buy it all

Since the buy started I've also canceled a lot of orders for them because people thought they wouldn't have the money once payment time came around (lol) but undoubtedly there will be some no shows, and possibly some vendor orders will drop or be reduced. It'll be interesting to see where it all ends up quantity wise.

[BunnyLake]

As long as the toxic numrow stripe is available somehow the kits can be structured how ever they make sense. I wish more sets had numrow accents because they look good on 80%, 75%, and 60% layouts no matter what. At one point I was considering toxic alphas and a few people requested it. Not sure if that would make this too crazy and a 200+ key set if you buy it all

Since the buy started I've also canceled a lot of orders for them because people thought they wouldn't have the money once payment time came around (lol) but undoubtedly there will be some no shows, and possibly some vendor orders will drop or be reduced. It'll be interesting to see where it all ends up quantity wise.

the stripe is in, and it includes a toxic backspace now, i have all the sets laid out, we are preparing mockups

[Melvang]

As long as the toxic numrow stripe is available somehow the kits can be structured how ever they make sense. I wish more sets had numrow accents because they look good on 80%, 75%, and 60% layouts no matter what. At one point I was considering toxic alphas and a few people requested it. Not sure if that would make this too crazy and a 200+ key set if you buy it all

Since the buy started I've also canceled a lot of orders for them because people thought they wouldn't have the money once payment time came around (lol) but undoubtedly there will be some no shows, and possibly some vendor orders will drop or be reduced. It'll be interesting to see where it all ends up quantity wise.

the stripe is in, and it includes a toxic backspace now, i have all the sets laid out, we are preparing mockups

Awesome work bunny.  Looking forward very eagerly to the mockups.

[BunnyLake]

As long as the toxic numrow stripe is available somehow the kits can be structured how ever they make sense. I wish more sets had numrow accents because they look good on 80%, 75%, and 60% layouts no matter what. At one point I was considering toxic alphas and a few people requested it. Not sure if that would make this too crazy and a 200+ key set if you buy it all

Since the buy started I've also canceled a lot of orders for them because people thought they wouldn't have the money once payment time came around (lol) but undoubtedly there will be some no shows, and possibly some vendor orders will drop or be reduced. It'll be interesting to see where it all ends up quantity wise.

the stripe is in, and it includes a toxic backspace now, i have all the sets laid out, we are preparing mockups

Awesome work bunny.  Looking forward very eagerly to the mockups.

there should be nothing to be too surprised about, there wont be anything you are expecting missing, we are breaking down the base set into alphas and mods, so people dont need to buy 2 sets of alphas if they just want the green ones, and we are keeping the basic sets simple and as shown to keep the costs low for people

there is gonna be an 18xx set added, as well as a spacebar pack and then one big pack of goodies and alternate keys

the packs are layed out so basically everything that isnt necessary is optional, and nothing that is necessary will involve people having to buy keys that may not apply to them

[Melvang]

Sounds good bunny.  I'm sure my wallet is still going to hurt on this one.

[doub]

Are you planing to propose blank 1x and 1.5x on all rows for ErgoDox and similar custom layouts?

[BunnyLake]

Are you planing to propose blank 1x and 1.5x on all rows for ErgoDox and similar custom layouts?

no sorry, no plans for ergodox with this

[Melvang]

Are you planing to propose blank 1x and 1.5x on all rows for ErgoDox and similar custom layouts?

no sorry, no plans for ergodox with this

After the group buy goes into production it shouldn't be to difficult to get blanks from SP.  That or just host your own group buy through SP for a Toxic Edox set.

[BunnyLake]

Are you planing to propose blank 1x and 1.5x on all rows for ErgoDox and similar custom layouts?

no sorry, no plans for ergodox with this

After the group buy goes into production it shouldn't be to difficult to get blanks from SP.  That or just host your own group buy through SP for a Toxic Edox set.

yeah

my trouble is im just not happy with how blanks look next to legended caps, and with a non uniform profile and people using dox differently and small order counts, it just becomes difficult

[longweight]

Awesome, if CTRL are running it then I will be in


Any chance of a full blank set?

[BunnyLake]

Awesome, if CTRL are running it then I will be in


Any chance of a full blank set?

blanks are weird things sir, im in the topre world, so i basically only use blanks, and i love blanks, and i feel like most of the topre world does, but over in mx land, i feel like everyone wants legends

[longweight]

I am also a blank Topre user and I would love to see some optional blank sets for TKL MX boards, they are so hard to get in Cherry profile!

[justnits]

I am also a blank Topre user and I would love to see some optional blank sets for TKL MX boards, they are so hard to get in Cherry profile!

isn't this DCS profile?
u can get blanks from imsto or ivan's?

[BunnyLake]

yeah this will be dcs

[LechnerDE]

So when can we expect the GB to go live?

I assume you'll have to finish the mockups, prepare your GB page and get the final quotes from SP. Maybe later this week?

I can't believe Toxic is finally happening

[longweight]

I am also a blank Topre user and I would love to see some optional blank sets for TKL MX boards, they are so hard to get in Cherry profile!

isn't this DCS profile?
u can get blanks from imsto or ivan's?

In what colours?

[nereme]

As Long as I can get the same look on my board as i originally planned.

As i wanted a Full set with non-toxic stripe, the toxic mod set, num pad set and the iso kit for my Flico majestouch i will still buy

the best bit is this is just in time for my birthday

[BunnyLake]

As Long as I can get the same look on my board as i originally planned.

As i wanted a Full set with non-toxic stripe, the toxic mod set, num pad set and the iso kit for my Flico majestouch i will still buy

the best bit is this is just in time for my birthday

you will be fine good sir

[CPTBadAss]

there is gonna be an 18xx set added as well as a spacebar pack and then one big pack of goodies and alternate keys

ARGH. Bunny, I'm trying to stop buying every DCS set ever. Stop making it so hard!!

Toxic set on a Dolch case with a Leeku 1800 PCB....

* CPTBadAss drools

[Melvang]

there is gonna be an 18xx set added as well as a spacebar pack and then one big pack of goodies and alternate keys

ARGH. Bunny, I'm trying to stop buying every DCS set ever. Stop making it so hard!!

Toxic set on a Dolch case with a Leeku 1800 PCB....

* CPTBadAss drools

you know you want it.

[justnits]

I am also a blank Topre user and I would love to see some optional blank sets for TKL MX boards, they are so hard to get in Cherry profile!

isn't this DCS profile?
u can get blanks from imsto or ivan's?

In what colours?

hmm, i suppose you want something like toxic's colour but in blanks?
ivan has black blanks gb now. and i just checked imsto's store n his taobao page, seems like he has taken out his blanks

[Merloobi]

Oooh I'm very interested in this. Is the base set "as is", meaning the color scheme is unchangeable. Or is it possible to request certain combinations, like dark alphanumerics and the rest the lovely green color?

[LechnerDE]

Oooh I'm very interested in this. Is the base set "as is", meaning the color scheme is unchangeable. Or is it possible to request certain combinations, like dark alphanumerics and the rest the lovely green color?

What do you mean by unchangeable? I guess the base set will be similar to the Raindrop Base set just with Toxic colors:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52475.0

Then you can buy extra kits to assemble your dream color combination.

[Medow]

Can you still make an order? Thanks!

[BunnyLake]

Can you still make an order? Thanks!

orders will begin shortly