New to geekhack. Opinions on vintage and new split mechanical keyboards?

[SomethingDignified]

Hello. I recently killed my Das Keyboard II in a repair attempt, and decided I'd rather go back to a split format for my next KB. So I bought one of the same model I loved back in the mid-late 90s, a PC Accessories/Chicony KB-7001, pictured. It has white ALPS switches.

The problem is, it's heavily used, and feels crappy. The keys are reluctant to sink unless you hit them in the center, which results in a gummy feeling, like a worn out rubber dome board. Is this a common problem with old ALPS and other used vintage boards? Am I ever going to find an affordable one that's still in prime shape?

I'm considering buying a Mistel Barocco now. I'm not at all excited about the 60% format. I'd definitely need a numpad alongside it. I use flight sim software that has every key bound, plus every modifier recognized separately, for instance a function for RightCtrl + PrintScrn. Will I have any problems using modifiers plus the function layer? I notice the arrows are on the IJKL keys, which seems to imply that the function modifier should be on the left side. How do people normally deal with this? Remap the Win key to Fn?

Any comments or suggestions appreciated.

[xtrafrood]

If I had the choice right now I wouldn't buy a Mistel Barocco. Personally, I'd rather have a Matias Ergo Pro. The tripod mounted method of tenting might be a bit weird but I would take that method over no tenting at all. If you're miffed regarding older equipment maybe check out the Ergo-Dox? You still have three days to order an Ergodox Infinity through Massdrop if that is something you might enjoy. An IBM M15 would be neat to have but they can be somewhat pricey. http://www.geek.com/chips/ibm-m15-split-ergonomic-keyboard-hits-ebay-bidding-war-1287797/

Welcome, btw

[tp4tissue]

NONE of the ergonomic keyboards offer tenting beyond 25 degrees besides the ergodox.


While you CAN modify a few of them to go beyond that, it's a hassle, whereas on the ergodox, you just get the long screws, and you're good to go.



The close the tenting angle to 70 degrees,  the better,  but 55 is the maximum on the ergodox given the thickness.


70 degrees is approximately the neutral angle for your wrist.. therefore most ergonomic.

[xtrafrood]

NONE of the ergonomic keyboards offer tenting beyond 25 degrees besides the ergodox.


While you CAN modify a few of them to go beyond that, it's a hassle, whereas on the ergodox, you just get the long screws, and you're good to go.



The close the tenting angle to 70 degrees,  the better,  but 55 is the maximum on the ergodox given the thickness.


70 degrees is approximately the neutral angle for your wrist.. therefore most ergonomic.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53184.msg2004837#msg2004837 - Showman's pic

The Ergodox needs tripod mount threading! Granted Matias Ergo Pro has a weird layout that basically makes it impossible to switch out keycaps which is a real bummer

[tp4tissue]

NONE of the ergonomic keyboards offer tenting beyond 25 degrees besides the ergodox.


While you CAN modify a few of them to go beyond that, it's a hassle, whereas on the ergodox, you just get the long screws, and you're good to go.



The close the tenting angle to 70 degrees,  the better,  but 55 is the maximum on the ergodox given the thickness.


70 degrees is approximately the neutral angle for your wrist.. therefore most ergonomic.

Show Image

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53184.msg2004837#msg2004837 - Showman's pic

The Ergodox needs tripod mount threading! Granted Matias Ergo Pro has a weird layout that basically makes it impossible to switch out keycaps which is a real bummer :(

No,  the tripod mount system is not good because at that tenting angle, there's no rigidity on the inner edge.  It's best to have actual legs there which go all the way, straight down to the table.


Overall,  I'd say the Matias is the way to go if you don't want to diy..  because all you need is to drill some holes on the inner edge of that keyboard to mount the long screws..

I've got 125mm under my ergodox's inner edge.  150mm total screw length counting the section going into the keyboard.

[SomethingDignified]

Well, I've never tried tenting yet, so I'm not addicted to it. I was thinking if I go for the Mistel, I might make a little wooden ramp to place it on for about a 15 degree tent. But just the split format does most of what I need it to do ergonomically. I don't have to type like my elbows are only 6 inches apart.

The Ergodox is $200 and requires me to solder the whole thing together? I just killed my Das Keyboard while learning to solder, so I'm probably not ready. And I'm probably not interested in any exotic key placements.

I'm getting more used to this KB-7001 by the hour, and the more I read about white ALPS switches, I'm starting to think this is the way it's supposed to feel. The resistance is all at the top of the keystroke, and it is indeed "frictiony" as some have described it.

[xtrafrood]

Well, I've never tried tenting yet, so I'm not addicted to it. I was thinking if I go for the Mistel, I might make a little wooden ramp to place it on for about a 15 degree tent. But just the split format does most of what I need it to do ergonomically. I don't have to type like my elbows are only 6 inches apart.

The Ergodox is $200 and requires me to solder the whole thing together? I just killed my Das Keyboard while learning to solder, so I'm probably not ready. And I'm probably not interested in any exotic key placements.

I'm getting more used to this KB-7001 by the hour, and the more I read about white ALPS switches, I'm starting to think this is the way it's supposed to feel. The resistance is all at the top of the keystroke, and it is indeed "frictiony" as some have described it.

Ergodox-ez.com offers pre-built Ergodox bundles but they cost $300 for the kit (which includes tenting/arm rests).

Sounds like you're getting use to your white alps board, though

[rtpguy]

You can see my mini-review on the Mistel Barocco in the Ergnomics section. 

I have a Matias Ergo Pro at work, and at the moment 2x Mistel Baroccos. 
The design of the Matias Ergo pro is very nice, especially as it's > a 60% keyboard, and I pair it (and the Mistel) with a separate numpad. 
Having said that, the Matias has crappy QC (or switches, unknown but same net result) and I have doubling keys on both halves of the keyboard after less than one month of actual usage.  Not cool for a $200 keyboard, and others have reported a similar experience.  I had high hopes for it, and while not being an Alps/Matias switch lover, I liked the design enough to consider buying several of them.  However, with the lack of longevity, I will have no choice but to get it repaired, then it's off off my desk as I don't have time for overly expensive-yet-unreliable devices.

I'm not 100% with the Barocco either, mainly due to a few limitations:

• It's a 60% KB, with what comes with that/  My main gripe on them is lack of separate ESC/~/` keys as this causes issues in my daily workflows and none of those should require a key combo. 
• Likewise, current inability to re-map the arrow keys (which are in a FN layer) to a more ergo position when also using the FN key to engage.

Lack of tenting - can be worked around, but sure, would be nice to have out of the box.
I also wish the option for MX Greens or Topres were available, but MX-Blues + o-rings give an overall decent feel I can adjust to.
Having said that, there are few other options out there.  Would love it if Matias got their act together, but I also recall a prior $$ Matias KB I had (Tactile Pro or something) had died on me after 6-9 months previously as well, and that's just not the sort of value prop I can get onboard with without a whole lot of proof it's no longer an issue.

UHK may let me get over my aversion to pure 60% layouts with the added modules, and if it allows full/all layer re-programmability.  But it's $$ and not yet delivered, so the MB isn't bad if you can work with a few 'nits' which may or may not apply to you specifically.

YMMV as always.

[xtrafrood]

The UHK has the workings of an incredible board for sure