[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94003.0][img width=480 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/K1A1EFr.png[/img][/url]
Looks incredible!
Any chance of adding Frow alternate color?
F1-F4 & F9-F12 = alpha color
F5-F8 = Mod color
Wouldn't it feel more "original" if the modifiers were Black on Blue in the base kit ?
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
**** this ****
Looks awesome even if I wish there would be icon mods. As this set has two possible alpha sets I would like to add a second tab key to the base set. With this you could do two full modifier sets cause you already have a lot of shift keys and two full bottom row sets. Else the second alpha set would be pointless to me
Looks awesome even if I wish there would be icon mods. As this set has two possible alpha sets I would like to add a second tab key to the base set. With this you could do two full modifier sets cause you already have a lot of shift keys and two full bottom row sets. Else the second alpha set would be pointless to me
Even for a 60% layout you'd need a second Backspace, Return, 2.75u Shift and 6 more 1.25u keys... not quite sure how one more tab key would get you there?
Looks awesome even if I wish there would be icon mods. As this set has two possible alpha sets I would like to add a second tab key to the base set. With this you could do two full modifier sets cause you already have a lot of shift keys and two full bottom row sets. Else the second alpha set would be pointless to me
Even for a 60% layout you'd need a second Backspace, Return, 2.75u Shift and 6 more 1.25u keys... not quite sure how one more tab key would get you there?
I think Blue Alphas + Black Mods would be a viable "base" alternative, but it's missing a tab key.
The 150€/mold number is wrong. That is the price that has been paid because they were being re-used in the coming sets. Your price will be higher.
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
Uhm Laser/Red Samurai are japanese legends, this is APL legends. Molds can't be shared.
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
Uhm Laser/Red Samurai are japanese legends, this is APL legends. Molds can't be shared.
what are you talking about
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
Uhm Laser/Red Samurai are japanese legends, this is APL legends. Molds can't be shared.
what are you talking about
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
Uhm Laser/Red Samurai are japanese legends, this is APL legends. Molds can't be shared.
what are you talking about
I'm saying that a engraving into stainless steel can't magically produce something other than what it is shaped as.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/nAknenh.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qxkItob.jpg)
Do you not see the difference between the two/three?
The molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
Uhm Laser/Red Samurai are japanese legends, this is APL legends. Molds can't be shared.
what are you talking about
I'm saying that a engraving into stainless steel can't magically produce something other than what it is shaped as.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/nAknenh.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qxkItob.jpg)
Do you not see the difference between the two/three?
when did I tell you that you could use theg gmk laser/samurai molds for the space cadet? It would look better by the way :-)
The molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
Source? Please link something to prove the validity.
Due to popular demand, I will look into how I can offer Cherry-style Icon+Text mods as well.
Due to popular demand, I will look into how I can offer Cherry-style Icon+Text mods as well.
Yes, well, that demand is coming from folks who lack a singular affinity for the original Space Cadet keyboard, and place Cherry legend conformity above the spirit of the tribute you're paying. However, you've already compromised the OG aesthetic by using corner legends, so I suppose offering Cherry-style mod legends is only one more step up that slippery slope. If you do decide to do this, I would request you put them into their own kit so the cost burden is shouldered only by those who insist on having them.
Icon + text is ugly.
The price asked by gmk for the alphas (50 keys) is this: 38 USD/set MOQ 150 sets
This is the price as a standalone set. When made as an addon, the price will be considerably lower (at least 20% lower).
The molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
Source? Please link something to prove the validity.
In the Massdrop forum about Redsuns GMK you'll find that the molds are shared between Laser and Redsuns set, and there are threads about gmk investing in them in the Laser forum too.
Due to popular demand, I will look into how I can offer Cherry-style Icon+Text mods as well. I have various ideas on how it could be done, I will investigate how it plays out with pricing. But since this is still a very young IC, don't expect an answer in the coming week or so, just note that I have heard you and will pursue options.
The price asked by gmk for the alphas (50 keys) is this: 38 USD/set MOQ 150 sets
This is the price as a standalone set. When made as an addon, the price will be considerably lower (at least 20% lower).
i got a quote from GMK last month and it was more than thisThe molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
Source? Please link something to prove the validity.
In the Massdrop forum about Redsuns GMK you'll find that the molds are shared between Laser and Redsuns set, and there are threads about gmk investing in them in the Laser forum too.
those are not novelties
Due to popular demand, I will look into how I can offer Cherry-style Icon+Text mods as well. I have various ideas on how it could be done, I will investigate how it plays out with pricing. But since this is still a very young IC, don't expect an answer in the coming week or so, just note that I have heard you and will pursue options.
Will you make the ISO enter with a black legend too ? this would be really nice
Due to popular demand, I will look into how I can offer Cherry-style Icon+Text mods as well. I have various ideas on how it could be done, I will investigate how it plays out with pricing. But since this is still a very young IC, don't expect an answer in the coming week or so, just note that I have heard you and will pursue options.
Will you make the ISO enter with a black legend too ? this would be really nice
Only the bottom rows are black in the original, Return (both ANSI and ISO) are above those rows.
Love the colours but don't really care for the alpha legends. I'd rather it was like Laser with a standard alpha set and an extra alpha set with the legends, rather than another set of the same but in blue
The price asked by gmk for the alphas (50 keys) is this: 38 USD/set MOQ 150 sets
This is the price as a standalone set. When made as an addon, the price will be considerably lower (at least 20% lower).
i got a quote from GMK last month and it was more than thisThe molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
Source? Please link something to prove the validity.
In the Massdrop forum about Redsuns GMK you'll find that the molds are shared between Laser and Redsuns set, and there are threads about gmk investing in them in the Laser forum too.
those are not novelties
Your quote was higher because you don't live in europe? How many caps did your set include?
Perhaps a dumb question, but if you're doing all new molds for the alphas, why not orient them as on the original space cadet with alternate symbol directly above letter, instead of diagonal with letter upper left and symbol lower right?
Voted for Base set on Massdrop, Anyway no vote option for Novelties?
Voted for Base set on Massdrop, Anyway no vote option for Novelties?
Perhaps a dumb question, but if you're doing all new molds for the alphas, why not orient them as on the original space cadet with alternate symbol directly above letter, instead of diagonal with letter upper left and symbol lower right?
The price asked by gmk for the alphas (50 keys) is this: 38 USD/set MOQ 150 sets
This is the price as a standalone set. When made as an addon, the price will be considerably lower (at least 20% lower).
i got a quote from GMK last month and it was more than thisThe molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
Source? Please link something to prove the validity.
In the Massdrop forum about Redsuns GMK you'll find that the molds are shared between Laser and Redsuns set, and there are threads about gmk investing in them in the Laser forum too.
those are not novelties
Your quote was higher because you don't live in europe? How many caps did your set include?
what?
GMK's prices are the same globally (I've verified this with others), and that's the pricing I got for a 50 key alpha set, like you mentioned.
You confuse me sometimes, giorgio.
MoreThe price asked by gmk for the alphas (50 keys) is this: 38 USD/set MOQ 150 sets
This is the price as a standalone set. When made as an addon, the price will be considerably lower (at least 20% lower).
i got a quote from GMK last month and it was more than thisThe molds have been shared between sets because gmk decided to invest in them. There is no IP because they haven't been paid in full by the group buy leader.
Source? Please link something to prove the validity.
In the Massdrop forum about Redsuns GMK you'll find that the molds are shared between Laser and Redsuns set, and there are threads about gmk investing in them in the Laser forum too.
those are not novelties
Your quote was higher because you don't live in europe? How many caps did your set include?
what?
GMK's prices are the same globally (I've verified this with others), and that's the pricing I got for a 50 key alpha set, like you mentioned.
You confuse me sometimes, giorgio.
It can't be a difference of more than 10%.
They aren't the same. Don't make me talk about VAT for example.
Your quote was higher because you don't live in europe? How many caps did your set include?
what?
GMK's prices are the same globally (I've verified this with others), and that's the pricing I got for a 50 key alpha set, like you mentioned.
You confuse me sometimes, giorgio.
It can't be a difference of more than 10%.
They aren't the same. Don't make me talk about VAT for example.
I doubt it, because the symbols on the space cadet keyboard were placed where they were to indicate the proper chorded use (e.g. super-a = symbol above a, just like shift-1 = ! on a PC keyboard). The Cherry "corners" method was for alternately interpreted symbols by the attached computer; something like Cyrillic sublegends for a computer that's set to Russian language. But I understand why esthetically it's being presented this way for this set. Ultimately it doesn't really matter since the symbols are just decorative anyway.Perhaps a dumb question, but if you're doing all new molds for the alphas, why not orient them as on the original space cadet with alternate symbol directly above letter, instead of diagonal with letter upper left and symbol lower right?
My guess is that GMK Space Cadet is what we imagine Tom Knight would have created had he put his legends on a modern Cherry-profile keycap family.
Q: Colevrak kit?
A: Due to the secondary APL legends, a Colevrak kit would need 20+ new molds made as well. With Colevrak kits having an MOQ of 100 and only ever having reached that number once with Laser, we're talking about a 30euro (40-45$ or so) extra, making the kit cost 80-90$.
Q: Colevrak kit?
A: Due to the secondary APL legends, a Colevrak kit would need 20+ new molds made as well. With Colevrak kits having an MOQ of 100 and only ever having reached that number once with Laser, we're talking about a 30euro (40-45$ or so) extra, making the kit cost 80-90$.
Are we talking that if we add a Colerak kit, it would cost 40-45$ alone? Or the Colerak kit costs 80-90$ alone? If it's 40-45$, IMO that is not a very high price, considering the previous Colerak kit costs some price at the same level.
This keyset is the set of this year to me personally. Almost perfect except there is no Colevrak kit.
As a Dvorak user, I don't mind to pay more to get this kit up and running. The Space-Cadet theme is rare, the Colerak kit in such a theme is rarer, due to the APL legends. If there is a small chance to get it there, please think twice before putting it away.
Q: Colevrak kit?
A: Due to the secondary APL legends, a Colevrak kit would need 20+ new molds made as well. With Colevrak kits having an MOQ of 100 and only ever having reached that number once with Laser, we're talking about a 30euro (40-45$ or so) extra, making the kit cost 80-90$.
Are we talking that if we add a Colerak kit, it would cost 40-45$ alone? Or the Colerak kit costs 80-90$ alone? If it's 40-45$, IMO that is not a very high price, considering the previous Colerak kit costs some price at the same level.
This keyset is the set of this year to me personally. Almost perfect except there is no Colevrak kit.
As a Dvorak user, I don't mind to pay more to get this kit up and running. The Space-Cadet theme is rare, the Colerak kit in such a theme is rarer, due to the APL legends. If there is a small chance to get it there, please think twice before putting it away.
Q: Colevrak kit?
A: Due to the secondary APL legends, a Colevrak kit would need 20+ new molds made as well. With Colevrak kits having an MOQ of 100 and only ever having reached that number once with Laser, we're talking about a 30euro (40-45$ or so) extra, making the kit cost 80-90$.
Are we talking that if we add a Colerak kit, it would cost 40-45$ alone? Or the Colerak kit costs 80-90$ alone? If it's 40-45$, IMO that is not a very high price, considering the previous Colerak kit costs some price at the same level.
This keyset is the set of this year to me personally. Almost perfect except there is no Colevrak kit.
As a Dvorak user, I don't mind to pay more to get this kit up and running. The Space-Cadet theme is rare, the Colerak kit in such a theme is rarer, due to the APL legends. If there is a small chance to get it there, please think twice before putting it away.
The 40-45$ would be EXTRA to have the new molds made, added on top of the current cost of 43$ per DC kit as seen in Red Samurai, we're looking at a 80-90$ TOTAL. Sure there are some nuts that will have no issue with paying that, but faaaar from 100.
even though it's not much money for 100 DC kit in total, which is around 8000$ and I could pay that actually.
Oblotzky, have you thought about adding the side/front symbols too?
This:Show Image(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Space-cadet-closeup.jpg)
I seriously would love to see this happen. I'm aware this will increase the cost to get the extra symbols front printed but this is the extra detail I'd love to see happen. Since it's done on Massdrop, I think its fair details to add.
Also, it'll be great to see super/win novelty keys to be included in the Symbols kit.
Love the colours but don't really care for the alpha legends. I'd rather it was like Laser with a standard alpha set and an extra alpha set with the legends, rather than another set of the same but in blue
Again, Oblotzky is simply trying to stay faithful to the original design, but in cherry profile. If you want normal Latin alphas, this is not the set you're looking for. Not trying to put your idea down, but it wouldn't be space cadet without these alphas.
Love the colours but don't really care for the alpha legends. I'd rather it was like Laser with a standard alpha set and an extra alpha set with the legends, rather than another set of the same but in blue
Again, Oblotzky is simply trying to stay faithful to the original design, but in cherry profile. If you want normal Latin alphas, this is not the set you're looking for. Not trying to put your idea down, but it wouldn't be space cadet without these alphas.
I could say it's not space cadet without centered legends on spherical caps with the additional front printed legends.
It already isn't space cadet, and never will be.
Pad printing if ugly tho.
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?Yes, please. I know it isn't precisely faithful to the original but am interested if that could at least be offered in an extras kit.
I'll have to see how pricing is as it is. Also what do you mean by Super/Win keys for Symbols kit? Super Meta Hyper are already in the base kit, considering adding 1x Meta and 1x Hyper in 1.5u if pricing allows it.
Pad printing if ugly tho.
Who said anything about pad printing tho.
I could say it's not space cadet without centered legends on spherical caps with the additional front printed legends.
What I find puzzling is the apparent love for this design from people who don't like spherical (SA) keycaps (which are the closest to the original Space Cadet keycaps you'll find in production today). This says to me that you have two types of interested buyers here: those who love the original Space Cadet keyboard in its entirety and want something as close as possible to it using contemporary components, and those who just like keycaps with unusual legends. The Space Cadet is very special to me, and I feel a little saddened that its legacy is being plundered just to pander to the second crowd, but that's my neurotic cross to bear and nobody else's. I still support this GB because Oblotzky's heart is in the right place, even if it does aim to please buyers who don't really have an appreciation for the OG keyboard that inspires it.
(Attachment Link)
Different typeface plus different key profile means this has none of the character of the original and all of the obscurity. I think this is objectively a poorly designed set but that is my subjective opinion. I understand nostalgia but nostalgia just doesn't mean something was good, it just means someone remembers it fondly - sometimes because new stuff makes the old stuff seem so bad that it's cute/adorable. This is one of those times. Sorry Oblotzky, I like a lot of your other stuff, but this is not indicative of your usually good eye.
I'm def in for this.
Oblotzky - any chance of a Hyper 7 kit?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7wubx0/i_hear_space_cadet_is_popular/
I'm def in for this.
Oblotzky - any chance of a Hyper 7 kit?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7wubx0/i_hear_space_cadet_is_popular/
None, that's just not gonna break MOQ. Plus I'm pretty sure GMK lacks a handfull of keysizes in the right rows.
I'm def in for this.
Oblotzky - any chance of a Hyper 7 kit?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7wubx0/i_hear_space_cadet_is_popular/
None, that's just not gonna break MOQ. Plus I'm pretty sure GMK lacks a handfull of keysizes in the right rows.
It was sarcasm tbf!!
Love the colours but don't really care for the alpha legends. I'd rather it was like Laser with a standard alpha set and an extra alpha set with the legends, rather than another set of the same but in blue
Again, Oblotzky is simply trying to stay faithful to the original design, but in cherry profile. If you want normal Latin alphas, this is not the set you're looking for. Not trying to put your idea down, but it wouldn't be space cadet without these alphas.
This!!! No offense, but I honestly do not understand why we do not make this a SA set. I might be a gorgeous colourway, but GMK just isnt the fitting profile.
I could say it's not space cadet without centered legends on spherical caps with the additional front printed legends.
It already isn't space cadet, and never will be.
Legends, profile, pad printing etc. aside...
Will you get colour samples before the full production and be able to borrow an original spade cadet to compare them against? Or will you just be going off Chyrosran's picture?
I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
Maybe he want it as a stand-alone grey alpha kit.I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
How does blue alphas being offered optionally affect your buying experience?
Those blue alphas are awesome.
I'm definitely going to be getting those.
Im in for SA, no dice on the GMK tho
Glad you didn't go the pad printed route.
What are the extra legends on the alphas? Like the rotated U's and T's?
I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
How does blue alphas being offered optionally affect your buying experience?
I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
splitting kits is bad, GMK charges more when you do that
i like it better this way
I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
splitting kits is bad, GMK charges more when you do that
i like it better this way
Getting ‘just the alphas’ from the base set is never an option anyway.. otherwise I would have bought ‘just the alphas’ from Nautilus. :shrug:
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What are the extra legends on the alphas? Like the rotated U's and T's?
What are the extra legends on the alphas? Like the rotated U's and T's?
If you have to ask, this GB is not for you.
I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
splitting kits is bad, GMK charges more when you do that
i like it better this way
Getting ‘just the alphas’ from the base set is never an option anyway.. otherwise I would have bought ‘just the alphas’ from Nautilus. :shrug:
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I really wish that just the grey alphas were available. I am not a big blue fan. Might buy the kit just for grey. Either way, I love this set. Great job!
splitting kits is bad, GMK charges more when you do that
i like it better this way
Getting ‘just the alphas’ from the base set is never an option anyway.. otherwise I would have bought ‘just the alphas’ from Nautilus. :shrug:
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:thinkingface: but the blue is available in just the alphas... I am basically saying I wish the grey was an option, rather than the blue.
Why isn't the mixed white text and black text mods the base kit?
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I own a Hyper7 set that I got from the R6 leftovers and I like it, but I don't think anyone should have to spend $400 to obtain a keyset, however nice. This looks like a nice and affordable alternative to selling your soul for some plastic.
I think arguing over the "authenticity" of a space cadet set in a different profile is absurd. There is what, one person who has actually assembled a proper space cadet board in a proper replication of the original. Literally everyone else bought the set and paired it with standard modifiers because math runes look cool. And math runes still look cool in a different profile.
A majority of purchasers aren't going to buy this because it's space cadet. They're going to buy it because it looks cool and has funky sublegends...
A majority of purchasers aren't going to buy this because it's space cadet. They're going to buy it because it looks cool and has funky sublegends...
Yes, and therein lies the great tragedy of a set offering like this.
A majority of purchasers aren't going to buy this because it's space cadet. They're going to buy it because it looks cool and has funky sublegends...
Yes, and therein lies the great tragedy of a set offering like this.
Or now people who otherwise wouldn't have had any idea what Space Cadet is will now become woke...
Definitely interested.
Can't help but be sad that the text is left aligned instead of centered but still excited. Anyone know why that has to be the case?
I am also putting out there that i'd be interested in printing the front legends if that's on the table. Doesn't really matter if front legends are doubleshot since they don't wear anyway.
left aligned pls
i don't like centered legends unless they're large like on SA
left aligned pls
i don't like centered legends unless they're large like on SA
I'm with Pudsey. This set is for those of us who appreciate space cadet and it's design, but prefer cherry profile. I think it does a good job of that. It's unreasonable to expect this to look like an SA set when it's not one.
Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
You're definitely more experienced than me with working with GMK but wouldn't the addition of the extra legends already require a new mold?
Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
You're definitely more experienced than me with working with GMK but wouldn't the addition of the extra legends already require a new mold?
Yes but only for the alphas that are new, people are talking about centered modifiers as well, which would add another 40 molds or so to cover everything. Some suggested to center the cadet alphas, but seem to forget that this would also require the numbers row to be recreated centered as well, and the other 8 or so keys right of the alphas.
Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
You're definitely more experienced than me with working with GMK but wouldn't the addition of the extra legends already require a new mold?
Yes but only for the alphas that are new, people are talking about centered modifiers as well, which would add another 40 molds or so to cover everything. Some suggested to center the cadet alphas, but seem to forget that this would also require the numbers row to be recreated centered as well, and the other 8 or so keys right of the alphas.
I can't believe this thread is only 2 days old and has grown this much. Same characters waging the same wars too... I love this forum :)
As for the set, I'm definitely interested. I prefer this colorway/set in an SA profile, but I'm truly excited to see how it shapes up with GMK. Either way, gotta love a well done throwback to a classic board.
Sorry that I didnt have time to go thru all the comments, wondering if is it possible to make the blue alpha as the main alpha is the base kit?
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
+1 for this, or either the IJKL inverted T arrow cluster.
GMK Red Samurai re-used the already paid for GMK Laser molds, so your math is wrong!
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
The reasoning is that space cadet symbols are novelties while the VIM or inverted T arrows are actually used by some fellows, me included. I use space-Fn plus IJKL as arrows; while, I really do not need any visual reference to access my arrow cluster, it would be nice to have them as reference, even if I touch type.
+1 for this, or either the IJKL inverted T arrow cluster.
I don't understand why we should prioritize VIM theme over Space Cadet? This has nothing to do with VIM, just because there are arrows similar to the ones VIM has?
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
+1 for this, or either the IJKL inverted T arrow cluster.
I don't understand why we should prioritize VIM theme over Space Cadet? This has nothing to do with VIM, just because there are arrows similar to the ones VIM has?
Space Cadet keyboards belonged to Lisp machines, which used a variant of emacs. So adding vim arrows not only goes against the original keyboard, but goes against the history of the machine too. IMO it should be left as is.
I'm neither for nor against the centered mods but I'd suggest that doing so would create value for the community. The centered mods and numbers could then be used by other sets. Perhaps another group buy could do centered alphas and then the community would have both centered and standard GMK molds to work with.Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
You're definitely more experienced than me with working with GMK but wouldn't the addition of the extra legends already require a new mold?
Yes but only for the alphas that are new, people are talking about centered modifiers as well, which would add another 40 molds or so to cover everything. Some suggested to center the cadet alphas, but seem to forget that this would also require the numbers row to be recreated centered as well, and the other 8 or so keys right of the alphas.
I'm neither for nor against the centered mods but I'd suggest that doing so would create value for the community. The centered mods and numbers could then be used by other sets. Perhaps another group buy could do centered alphas and then the community would have both centered and standard GMK molds to work with.Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
You're definitely more experienced than me with working with GMK but wouldn't the addition of the extra legends already require a new mold?
Yes but only for the alphas that are new, people are talking about centered modifiers as well, which would add another 40 molds or so to cover everything. Some suggested to center the cadet alphas, but seem to forget that this would also require the numbers row to be recreated centered as well, and the other 8 or so keys right of the alphas.
Really like that set a lot!
@Oblotzky: do you know if GMK has molds for ISO-CH? Just curious, not that I really think this is ever going to happen.
About the arrows, could we forget about the space cadet layout and use the vim standard instead?
(Attachment Link)
+1 for this, or either the IJKL inverted T arrow cluster.
I don't understand why we should prioritize VIM theme over Space Cadet? This has nothing to do with VIM, just because there are arrows similar to the ones VIM has?
Pls keep the top legends as is. My understanding is those were meant to enter APL characters and conceptually different from VIM navigation keys.
I do appreciate VIM modality and all the goodness there (emacs with evil user), but those VIM nav keys would be out of place and alien here.
Really like that set a lot!
@Oblotzky: do you know if GMK has molds for ISO-CH? Just curious, not that I really think this is ever going to happen.
I'm neither for nor against the centered mods but I'd suggest that doing so would create value for the community. The centered mods and numbers could then be used by other sets. Perhaps another group buy could do centered alphas and then the community would have both centered and standard GMK molds to work with.Any legend that differs from current available ones at GMK may imply new molds, that may imply a huge premium. Besides, off centered legends look good on Cherry profile.
You're definitely more experienced than me with working with GMK but wouldn't the addition of the extra legends already require a new mold?
Yes but only for the alphas that are new, people are talking about centered modifiers as well, which would add another 40 molds or so to cover everything. Some suggested to center the cadet alphas, but seem to forget that this would also require the numbers row to be recreated centered as well, and the other 8 or so keys right of the alphas.
Unless GMK want to support some of the cost for such new molds the premium on this group buy would be unbearable.
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
I've just noticed the modifier legends :-\
I think icon would look so much nicer with complex legends, but I know that isn't where the set is going :)
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
I've just noticed the modifier legends :-\
I think icon would look so much nicer with complex legends, but I know that isn't where the set is going :)
If you don't like the choice of modifier legends, well then this is not a set for you. The set is about paying homage to an old classic, and this is how they are supposed to be.
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
Oblotzky, can you please make a render with non-centered modifiers and swapped alphas as suggested by zslane? I imagine that would look really good.
I've just noticed the modifier legends :-\
I think icon would look so much nicer with complex legends, but I know that isn't where the set is going :)
If you don't like the choice of modifier legends, well then this is not a set for you. The set is about paying homage to an old classic, and this is how they are supposed to be.
If you don't like the choice of modifier legends, well then this is not a set for you. The set is about paying homage to an old classic, and this is how they are supposed to be.
In that case we should go with dark gray bottom rows, right?
Sheeple and their corner legends... :rolleyes:
If you don't like the choice of modifier legends, well then this is not a set for you. The set is about paying homage to an old classic, and this is how they are supposed to be.
In that case we should go with dark gray bottom rows, right?
Blue mods with black legends are offered in a separate kit. Their absence in the base kit is purely a concession to the folks who like the colorway and the "funky legends" but can't abide the black legends of the real SC keyboard's bottom two mod rows. Personally, I think it should be the other way around, where the base kit has the OG mods and the blue/white mods are offered in a separate kit, but Oblotzky has fears of this set not hitting MOQ if he's too faithful to the OG tribute theme in the base kit. :rolleyes:
Before shutting down the idea of centered legends, it was only fair to at least render it. I for one am not really excited, and do intend to keep it as it is.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
Oblotzky, can you please make a render with non-centered modifiers and swapped alphas as suggested by zslane? I imagine that would look really good.
Yeah, I would like to see that also. I think it makes more sense, since OG had symbols on top.
Sheeple and their corner legends... :rolleyes:
Or maybe people have different tastes and preferences?If you don't like the choice of modifier legends, well then this is not a set for you. The set is about paying homage to an old classic, and this is how they are supposed to be.
In that case we should go with dark gray bottom rows, right?
Blue mods with black legends are offered in a separate kit. Their absence in the base kit is purely a concession to the folks who like the colorway and the "funky legends" but can't abide the black legends of the real SC keyboard's bottom two mod rows. Personally, I think it should be the other way around, where the base kit has the OG mods and the blue/white mods are offered in a separate kit, but Oblotzky has fears of this set not hitting MOQ if he's too faithful to the OG tribute theme in the base kit. :rolleyes:
Totally fair giving your opinion and thoughts, but is all the gatekeeping in this thread really necessary?
Sheeple and their corner legends... :rolleyes:
Or maybe people have different tastes and preferences?If you don't like the choice of modifier legends, well then this is not a set for you. The set is about paying homage to an old classic, and this is how they are supposed to be.
In that case we should go with dark gray bottom rows, right?
Blue mods with black legends are offered in a separate kit. Their absence in the base kit is purely a concession to the folks who like the colorway and the "funky legends" but can't abide the black legends of the real SC keyboard's bottom two mod rows. Personally, I think it should be the other way around, where the base kit has the OG mods and the blue/white mods are offered in a separate kit, but Oblotzky has fears of this set not hitting MOQ if he's too faithful to the OG tribute theme in the base kit. :rolleyes:
Totally fair giving your opinion and thoughts, but is all the gatekeeping in this thread really necessary?
+1 Clearly not a fan and not going to buy it. So get the hell out.. :raughs:
As for centred legends... when did this become a thing with GMK?
I agree. But I think the cost for new legend molds might be the big obstacle there.
Original plans were best, non-centered and all white mods. Good balance of throwback with a modern sensibility that comes with GMK.
Original plans were best, non-centered and all white mods. Good balance of throwback with a modern sensibility that comes with GMK.
I like originals best as well. I see this as a merging of space cadet and cherry/gmk styling. It's fine in my book to stray from the original caps somewhat and let the SA set be a closer reproduction seeing as they're spherical and inherently more accurate.This
I like originals best as well. I see this as a merging of space cadet and cherry/gmk styling. It's fine in my book to stray from the original caps somewhat and let the SA set be a closer reproduction seeing as they're spherical and inherently more accurate.
I like originals best as well. I see this as a merging of space cadet and cherry/gmk styling. It's fine in my book to stray from the original caps somewhat and let the SA set be a closer reproduction seeing as they're spherical and inherently more accurate.
Correct. Let the wannabe elitists pretend to know what they're talking about.
I like originals best as well. I see this as a merging of space cadet and cherry/gmk styling. It's fine in my book to stray from the original caps somewhat and let the SA set be a closer reproduction seeing as they're spherical and inherently more accurate.
Correct. Let the wannabe elitists pretend to know what they're talking about.
I like originals best as well. I see this as a merging of space cadet and cherry/gmk styling. It's fine in my book to stray from the original caps somewhat and let the SA set be a closer reproduction seeing as they're spherical and inherently more accurate.
Original plans were best, non-centered and all white mods. Good balance of throwback with a modern sensibility that comes with GMK.
+1
Original plans were best, non-centered and all white mods. Good balance of throwback with a modern sensibility that comes with GMK.
+1
+1 from me as well
I think the centered legends would look great, but only if they were properly arranged. The alpha symbols would need to be swapped (i.e., Latin on the bottom, APL symbols on top). The fact that centered legends sort of obscure the fact that these are GMK cylindricals is simply more win, IMO. Oh, and the spacebar should be blue in your renders... :thumb:I think this would be interesting at least to see how close to the original you could get.
Original non-centered renders were much better.
This is GMK, not SA.
I am not convinced by the centered legends stuff, regardless of partially or for all keys. At this time I will continue it in the form as presented in the first post.
Non-centered GMK legends look way better
Non-centered GMK legends look way better
Why?
So you're talking about the mod keys then, correct?Non-centered GMK legends look way better
Why?
I personally think it's the text capitalization. Center works for when the text is ALL CAPS, but when it's just Capitalized, centering the text makes it appear lop-sided to me.
Non-centered GMK legends look way better
Why?
I personally think it's the text capitalization. Center works for when the text is ALL CAPS, but when it's just Capitalized, centering the text makes it appear lop-sided to me.
Are you gonna have "Greek" keycap?
The most important question I had was could you change the R3 backslash/pipe key to something else? I realise different European countries use a variety of different keys/layouts left of return but the only layout I'm familiar with that uses that R3 key is the mac? Maybe 'US ISO'? I'm not asking to have exactly the correct key for the UK layout but just something else, so that EU people that are ok with not buying the NordeUK kit and having exactly the correct legends on those keys could at least have different legends on the keys to the left of return and to the right of left ISO shift if that makes sense? Sorry I've probably done a really terrible job of explaining that! Thanks =]
^
To add a suggestion as what to use for my request above, maybe back quote/tilde? I'm somewhat biased though as I'm mainly a 60% guy =P
The most important question I had was could you change the R3 backslash/pipe key to something else? I realise different European countries use a variety of different keys/layouts left of return but the only layout I'm familiar with that uses that R3 key is the mac? Maybe 'US ISO'? I'm not asking to have exactly the correct key for the UK layout but just something else, so that EU people that are ok with not buying the NordeUK kit and having exactly the correct legends on those keys could at least have different legends on the keys to the left of return and to the right of left ISO shift if that makes sense? Sorry I've probably done a really terrible job of explaining that! Thanks =]^
To add a suggestion as what to use for my request above, maybe back quote/tilde? I'm somewhat biased though as I'm mainly a 60% guy =P
Sorry, just wanted to reiterate this as I think it might have been missed, cheers
The most important question I had was could you change the R3 backslash/pipe key to something else? I realise different European countries use a variety of different keys/layouts left of return but the only layout I'm familiar with that uses that R3 key is the mac? Maybe 'US ISO'? I'm not asking to have exactly the correct key for the UK layout but just something else, so that EU people that are ok with not buying the NordeUK kit and having exactly the correct legends on those keys could at least have different legends on the keys to the left of return and to the right of left ISO shift if that makes sense? Sorry I've probably done a really terrible job of explaining that! Thanks =]^
To add a suggestion as what to use for my request above, maybe back quote/tilde? I'm somewhat biased though as I'm mainly a 60% guy =P
Sorry, just wanted to reiterate this as I think it might have been missed, cheers
R3 1u \| is for ISO-US layout, the NorDeUK kit is for actual ISO-EU layouts.Show Image(https://oblotzky.github.io/sa-oblivion/images/keyboards/sa_oblivion_keyboard_m65_usiso_monochrome_oblivion_top_ortho_wqhd.jpg)
The most important question I had was could you change the R3 backslash/pipe key to something else? I realise different European countries use a variety of different keys/layouts left of return but the only layout I'm familiar with that uses that R3 key is the mac? Maybe 'US ISO'? I'm not asking to have exactly the correct key for the UK layout but just something else, so that EU people that are ok with not buying the NordeUK kit and having exactly the correct legends on those keys could at least have different legends on the keys to the left of return and to the right of left ISO shift if that makes sense? Sorry I've probably done a really terrible job of explaining that! Thanks =]^
To add a suggestion as what to use for my request above, maybe back quote/tilde? I'm somewhat biased though as I'm mainly a 60% guy =P
Sorry, just wanted to reiterate this as I think it might have been missed, cheers
R3 1u \| is for ISO-US layout, the NorDeUK kit is for actual ISO-EU layouts.Show Image(https://oblotzky.github.io/sa-oblivion/images/keyboards/sa_oblivion_keyboard_m65_usiso_monochrome_oblivion_top_ortho_wqhd.jpg)
Ok, isn't that just a waste though, I mean does anybody actually use ISO-US? I just think it makes so much more sense to have a layout that EU people can use whereby all of the keys have differing legends even if they are not exactly the correct ones? Split left shift and everything is already there, all that needs to be changed is that R3 key, or one added if you want to keep the ISO-US support? I don't even mind what the legend is, just something different? I understand you are trying to promote NorDeUK as it always does terribly but I think myself and a lot of others are unlikely to pay a large amount of money for a shed load of keys that we are never going to use. The way I'm suggesting still allows people to buy the NorDeUK kit if they really want all the perfect legends for their country and I honestly don't think it takes away a huge amount of people that would have otherwise bought the kit? I know EU people come and moan about lack of support etc all the time but I just think, whilst not perfect, it is the best compromise =S.
The most important question I had was could you change the R3 backslash/pipe key to something else? I realise different European countries use a variety of different keys/layouts left of return but the only layout I'm familiar with that uses that R3 key is the mac? Maybe 'US ISO'? I'm not asking to have exactly the correct key for the UK layout but just something else, so that EU people that are ok with not buying the NordeUK kit and having exactly the correct legends on those keys could at least have different legends on the keys to the left of return and to the right of left ISO shift if that makes sense? Sorry I've probably done a really terrible job of explaining that! Thanks =]^
To add a suggestion as what to use for my request above, maybe back quote/tilde? I'm somewhat biased though as I'm mainly a 60% guy =P
Sorry, just wanted to reiterate this as I think it might have been missed, cheers
R3 1u \| is for ISO-US layout, the NorDeUK kit is for actual ISO-EU layouts.Show Image(https://oblotzky.github.io/sa-oblivion/images/keyboards/sa_oblivion_keyboard_m65_usiso_monochrome_oblivion_top_ortho_wqhd.jpg)
Ok, isn't that just a waste though, I mean does anybody actually use ISO-US? I just think it makes so much more sense to have a layout that EU people can use whereby all of the keys have differing legends even if they are not exactly the correct ones? Split left shift and everything is already there, all that needs to be changed is that R3 key, or one added if you want to keep the ISO-US support? I don't even mind what the legend is, just something different? I understand you are trying to promote NorDeUK as it always does terribly but I think myself and a lot of others are unlikely to pay a large amount of money for a shed load of keys that we are never going to use. The way I'm suggesting still allows people to buy the NorDeUK kit if they really want all the perfect legends for their country and I honestly don't think it takes away a huge amount of people that would have otherwise bought the kit? I know EU people come and moan about lack of support etc all the time but I just think, whilst not perfect, it is the best compromise =S.
But if I add a 'correct' key for that one location, all the other locations are still wrong legends. If you are fine with having wrong legends in all the other locations, why not this one too? The intention is to have at least physical coverage for those that want to cheap out, and the NorDeUK kit for those that want it perfect.
I doubt it, because the symbols on the space cadet keyboard were placed where they were to indicate the proper chorded use (e.g. super-a = symbol above a, just like shift-1 = ! on a PC keyboard). The Cherry "corners" method was for alternately interpreted symbols by the attached computer; something like Cyrillic sublegends for a computer that's set to Russian language. But I understand why esthetically it's being presented this way for this set. Ultimately it doesn't really matter since the symbols are just decorative anyway.Perhaps a dumb question, but if you're doing all new molds for the alphas, why not orient them as on the original space cadet with alternate symbol directly above letter, instead of diagonal with letter upper left and symbol lower right?
My guess is that GMK Space Cadet is what we imagine Tom Knight would have created had he put his legends on a modern Cherry-profile keycap family.
I dont trust side pad printing lasting forever. My vote is no on greek :p
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? Has Cherry ever had text only mods? This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? Has Cherry ever had text only mods? This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
Yes, a decent amount of very old vintage cherry boards had text only mods.
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? Has Cherry ever had text only mods? This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
Yes, a decent amount of very old vintage cherry boards had text only mods.
Very old, as in predating the cylindrical cherry profile/cornered legends?
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? Has Cherry ever had text only mods? This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
Yes, a decent amount of very old vintage cherry boards had text only mods.
Very old, as in predating the cylindrical cherry profile/cornered legends?
No, a decent amount of early mx boards with the modern style alphas had text mods, but that were not the common boards. https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:G80-1306a_.jpg
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? Has Cherry ever had text only mods? This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
Yes, a decent amount of very old vintage cherry boards had text only mods.
Very old, as in predating the cylindrical cherry profile/cornered legends?
No, a decent amount of early mx boards with the modern style alphas had text mods, but that were not the common boards. https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:G80-1306a_.jpg
Ah, I forgot that one! It doesn't look bad in that layout, granted, most of the mods are shorter than ansi and it does have the backspace icon :p
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? Has Cherry ever had text only mods? This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
Yes, a decent amount of very old vintage cherry boards had text only mods.
Very old, as in predating the cylindrical cherry profile/cornered legends?
No, a decent amount of early mx boards with the modern style alphas had text mods, but that were not the common boards. https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:G80-1306a_.jpg
Ah, I forgot that one! It doesn't look bad in that layout, granted, most of the mods are shorter than ansi and it does have the backspace icon :p
There should be some 2500 style terminal boards with normal iso layout with text mods too, I just can't find the pictures right now
I think it is an odd balance to have a very busy alphas (1u) with potentially 3 legends but then have the largest keys feature only text
I wouldn't be here if I didn't like thisI think it is an odd balance to have a very busy alphas (1u) with potentially 3 legends but then have the largest keys feature only text
Are you saying you dislike the look of the space cadet?
I'll just be honest here, permit me the shift of discussion to numbers - what do you guys think will sell better? Cornered legends or centered legends? I think the answer is obvious. How many people are gonna buy this because it's an exact replica of an old keyboard that follows very strict construction and how many are gonna buy it because it's a cool set that happens to pay homage to a very meaningful keyboard from way back?
Sales should not be impaired by gatekeeping. Sales should not be impaired by having to completely replicate the original to not piss purists off. Does anyone actually think black legends for bottom mods like the original would ever outsell regular mods for example? I'm all for civilised discussion but let's please get real here, there's no need to continue hammering on with decisions that are blatantly obvious.
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? ... This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..
I'll just be honest here, permit me the shift of discussion to numbers - what do you guys think will sell better? Cornered legends or centered legends? I think the answer is obvious. How many people are gonna buy this because it's an exact replica of an old keyboard that follows very strict construction and how many are gonna buy it because it's a cool set that happens to pay homage to a very meaningful keyboard from way back?
Sales should not be impaired by gatekeeping. Sales should not be impaired by having to completely replicate the original to not piss purists off. Does anyone actually think black legends for bottom mods like the original would ever outsell regular mods for example? I'm all for civilised discussion but let's please get real here, there's no need to continue hammering on with decisions that are blatantly obvious.
I for one am not interested in icon mods so I state my preference when the issue is discussed.
If you were to do cornered legends though, why remove the icons? ... This is a very icon heavy set anyway but I guess that is more of a personal preference..the fewer aesthetic compromises you have to make the better in my view. But to be honest, the presence of icons on the modifiers would not deter me from buying the set.
FWIW, I would not call the original Space Cadet "icon heavy," in fact the only icons on it are the four hands. Everything else is text (roman numerals and APL characters are textual, not iconic).
Well this is an interest check and I for one am not interested in icon mods so I state my preference when the issue is discussed.
It's not gatekeeping. What got me interested in this set was to have cylindrical space cadet keycaps. If it's going to be apl legends on gmk then I'm not interested and as this is an interest check I think it's fair to say it.
If it's so obvious that people are not interested in centered legends or text only mods then there is no need for an interest check.
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
I just want what Oblotzky originally had, maybe with the greek front legends :eek:
Thirded with this notion. Everything else is kinda nitpicky :rolleyes:
I just want what Oblotzky originally had, maybe with the greek front legends :eek:
+1 best balance so far :eek:
this is what i want to buyCannot agree any more :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LCSK8S9.jpg)
please do not subject us to this.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/raFaB7o.jpg)
i think if people want centered legends, they should look for a different profile. corner legends are part of the cherry profile, and anything else is blasphemy
What if Return, Backspace(s) and Tab were moved into the black mod kit to make an OG mod kit and the base kit would have regular cherry modifiers (or icons? :woi2:) to match the alphas. It would require adding 4 more keys to the base set, though, I think and a bit bigger of a mod kit. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone uhh spewing my thoughts all over this thread
What if Return, Backspace(s) and Tab were moved into the black mod kit to make an OG mod kit and the base kit would have regular cherry modifiers (or icons? :woi2:) to match the alphas. It would require adding 4 more keys to the base set, though, I think and a bit bigger of a mod kit. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone uhh spewing my thoughts all over this thread
So the white/black kit would have text only and the base would be white with text+icons?
That would be reasonable if there are more people wanting text+icon than text only i guess.
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
that is certainly no concern for people who are interested in GMK Space Cadet
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
that is certainly no concern for people who are interested in GMK Space Cadet
No, but you seem to think people can just go out and find some other profile with centered Space Cadet legends, as if that was some sort of viable solution for them, which it is not. It is merely a dismissive attempt to shove fans of centered legends out of the conversation.
Of course, there is really no debate to be had here anyway since Oblotzky is certainly not going to put centered legends on GMK keycaps for fear of alienating the Cherry-profile traditionalists. I'm actually a little surprised he hasn't caved in to the pressure to add icons to the modifiers, but there's still time for that to happen I guess.
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
that is certainly no concern for people who are interested in GMK Space Cadet
No, but you seem to think people can just go out and find some other profile with centered Space Cadet legends, as if that was some sort of viable solution for them, which it is not. It is merely a dismissive attempt to shove fans of centered legends out of the conversation.
Of course, there is really no debate to be had here anyway since Oblotzky is certainly not going to put centered legends on GMK keycaps for fear of alienating the Cherry-profile traditionalists. I'm actually a little surprised he hasn't caved in to the pressure to add icons to the modifiers, but there's still time for that to happen I guess.
GMK Space Cadet isn't a "second chance" set for people who like the SA set but could not get one. As much as you may want this to be, this set is not a replica of the SA version. This is a recreation in GMK profile, which is a translation from the original font, legend placement and orientation, cap profile, etc.
Centered legends are not part of the cherry profile. if you want centered legends, you need to pick a different profile.
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
that is certainly no concern for people who are interested in GMK Space Cadet
No, but you seem to think people can just go out and find some other profile with centered Space Cadet legends, as if that was some sort of viable solution for them, which it is not. It is merely a dismissive attempt to shove fans of centered legends out of the conversation.
Of course, there is really no debate to be had here anyway since Oblotzky is certainly not going to put centered legends on GMK keycaps for fear of alienating the Cherry-profile traditionalists. I'm actually a little surprised he hasn't caved in to the pressure to add icons to the modifiers, but there's still time for that to happen I guess.
GMK Space Cadet isn't a "second chance" set for people who like the SA set but could not get one. As much as you may want this to be, this set is not a replica of the SA version. This is a recreation in GMK profile, which is a translation from the original font, legend placement and orientation, cap profile, etc.
Centered legends are not part of the cherry profile. if you want centered legends, you need to pick a different profile.
To those who say, "If you want centered legends, then just go buy the spherical version of Space Cadet," I'd dearly love to know where you expect interested buyers to find such a thing.
that is certainly no concern for people who are interested in GMK Space Cadet
No, but you seem to think people can just go out and find some other profile with centered Space Cadet legends, as if that was some sort of viable solution for them, which it is not. It is merely a dismissive attempt to shove fans of centered legends out of the conversation.
Of course, there is really no debate to be had here anyway since Oblotzky is certainly not going to put centered legends on GMK keycaps for fear of alienating the Cherry-profile traditionalists. I'm actually a little surprised he hasn't caved in to the pressure to add icons to the modifiers, but there's still time for that to happen I guess.
GMK Space Cadet isn't a "second chance" set for people who like the SA set but could not get one. As much as you may want this to be, this set is not a replica of the SA version. This is a recreation in GMK profile, which is a translation from the original font, legend placement and orientation, cap profile, etc.
Centered legends are not part of the cherry profile. if you want centered legends, you need to pick a different profile.
Centered legends are not part of the cherry profile. if you want centered legends, you need to pick a different profile.
GMK Space Cadet isn't a "second chance" set for people who like the SA set but could not get one. As much as you may want this to be, this set is not a replica of the SA version. This is a recreation in GMK profile, which is a translation from the original font, legend placement and orientation, cap profile, etc.
Centered legends are not part of the cherry profile. if you want centered legends, you need to pick a different profile.
Not only is the font location a compromise, so is the scale - the original space cadet has a much greater font to key ratio than what you're proposing...
It also feels really weird that you have the roman alphabet above the "alternate" symbols in complete opposition to the original...
Not only is the font location a compromise, so is the scale - the original space cadet has a much greater font to key ratio than what you're proposing...
It also feels really weird that you have the roman alphabet above the "alternate" symbols in complete opposition to the original...
I had a similar realization yesterday. However, it is unlikely that the double shot molds for the legends in the standard position may be used for legends at any other different one. I think the Lisp symbols will require new molds anyway so maybe it would be an opportunity to have the legends adjusted to the true original.
Not only is the font location a compromise, so is the scale - the original space cadet has a much greater font to key ratio than what you're proposing...
It also feels really weird that you have the roman alphabet above the "alternate" symbols in complete opposition to the original...
I had a similar realization yesterday. However, it is unlikely that the double shot molds for the legends in the standard position may be used for legends at any other different one. I think the Lisp symbols will require new molds anyway so maybe it would be an opportunity to have the legends adjusted to the true original.
RE the position of the primary versus alternate legends, someone mentioned that about a week or two ago.
My take is it's as weird if not more to have alternate on top and primary on bottom like original Space Cadet.
I guess it's because most keysets (not only Cherry) now days have primary on top.
There are many opinions pointing out inconsistency with the original design, but that was 3+ decades ago, different profile, etc.
Logical consistency probably is easy to identify and tag onto, but it may not be right for the design overall.
If you look at most GMK keyset designs, the legends have nothing to do with their theme, their identity, or their distinctiveness. Those qualities are always achieved through colorway and a handful of novelty legends. Because of this, the style of the legends on 99% of GMK keysets don't matter, and so there is no compelling reason to depart from the de facto standard that will allow existing molds to be used and keep costs down. But that isn't the case here. The unique legend style of the original Space Cadet keyboard is a critical part of its distinctive identity, and if you take that away, you aren't really doing a "Space Cadet" keycap set, but merely one loosely inspired by it. The fact that Oblotzky is choosing to incur the costs of new molds for the legends clearly says that he intends this to be more faithful to the original keyboard than to the countless Cherry-profile keycap sets for which the legends don't matter. In light of that, the choice to depart (at all) from the original keyboard's legend style becomes hard to fathom or justify.
i think y'all are overthinking this
i think y'all are overthinking this
It's a bit of a tangent, but I wonder how well Space Cadet would work as an all-over dyesub on Matt3o's MT3 profile.
i think y'all are overthinking this
Oh, this is nothing compared to the depth and extent of the community input that went into DSA Granite. The debate over its typeface alone went on for months...
It's a bit of a tangent, but I wonder how well Space Cadet would work as an all-over dyesub on Matt3o's MT3 profile.
Did matt3o indicate an ability to do complete-coverage dyesub for MT3 while I wasn't looking?
Maybe I'm missing something (sorta new around geekhack) but why hasn't there been any kind of vote or poll done. Someone earlier made an elaborate post about how it'd be insane to kill sales by trying to do center legends on cherry profile and while that may be true wouldn't it be best put to a vote? For example, this set's already pretty unique when it comes to Cherry profiles in that it has its own legends.
Besides, I think if you included a note about how the centered legends were being true to the history of the keycap set in the description of the GB sale it would add a unique twist on just any old insert GMK colorway keycap set here. It would make it more GMK Space cadet instead of GMK gray/blue. Only way to find out how people might react would be to poll them... hmm... interesting!
Those are just my opinions though I totally see why people wouldn't want to shake the boat and try weird stuff with cherry profile. I've said it before but I will buy no matter what because I love the colorway.
Maybe I'm missing something (sorta new around geekhack) but why hasn't there been any kind of vote or poll done. Someone earlier made an elaborate post about how it'd be insane to kill sales by trying to do center legends on cherry profile and while that may be true wouldn't it be best put to a vote? For example, this set's already pretty unique when it comes to Cherry profiles in that it has its own legends.
Besides, I think if you included a note about how the centered legends were being true to the history of the keycap set in the description of the GB sale it would add a unique twist on just any old insert GMK colorway keycap set here. It would make it more GMK Space cadet instead of GMK gray/blue. Only way to find out how people might react would be to poll them... hmm... interesting!
Those are just my opinions though I totally see why people wouldn't want to shake the boat and try weird stuff with cherry profile. I've said it before but I will buy no matter what because I love the colorway.
Because the IC's in general are to give feedback to the designer, who then makes their own decisions. It's the designer's choice, in the end, not the community's.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.That's True.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Did you not see the render of centered alphas but normal mods?I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Did you not see the render of centered alphas but normal mods?I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
I’m referring TO the centered legend modifiers. They look like trash. Look at the left edge of center justified legends. Look at tab. Look at shift. It’s all over the place.
On standard left justified legends you get a starting point. An anchor for the stagger of the board.
The keys on a standard gmk set are aligned like print media. Center justified is just lazy trash. There was so much thought put into the original placement.
I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money, cause then I won’t be buying the set and I’m thinking I’d have to get at least 2 of every kit with CORRECTLY justified legends.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Did you not see the render of centered alphas but normal mods?I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
I’m referring TO the centered legend modifiers. They look like trash. Look at the left edge of center justified legends. Look at tab. Look at shift. It’s all over the place.
On standard left justified legends you get a starting point. An anchor for the stagger of the board.
The keys on a standard gmk set are aligned like print media. Center justified is just lazy trash. There was so much thought put into the original placement.
I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money, cause then I won’t be buying the set and I’m thinking I’d have to get at least 2 of every kit with CORRECTLY justified legends.
Did you miss my entire point? I and others in this thread agree with you as far as centered mods vs left justified. But, you can have centered Alphas legends with off centered mods legends. Yeah it looks a bit odd with the combination of two different locations but to me it's better than having off centered alpha legends.
Lazy trash wtf are you even talking about this is a forum about keyboard/keycap designs nothing here is lazy we're having a discussion about the pros/cons of different designs.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Did you not see the render of centered alphas but normal mods?I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
I’m referring TO the centered legend modifiers. They look like trash. Look at the left edge of center justified legends. Look at tab. Look at shift. It’s all over the place.
On standard left justified legends you get a starting point. An anchor for the stagger of the board.
The keys on a standard gmk set are aligned like print media. Center justified is just lazy trash. There was so much thought put into the original placement.
I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money, cause then I won’t be buying the set and I’m thinking I’d have to get at least 2 of every kit with CORRECTLY justified legends.
Did you miss my entire point? I and others in this thread agree with you as far as centered mods vs left justified. But, you can have centered Alphas legends with off centered mods legends. Yeah it looks a bit odd with the combination of two different locations but to me it's better than having off centered alpha legends.
Lazy trash wtf are you even talking about this is a forum about keyboard/keycap designs nothing here is lazy we're having a discussion about the pros/cons of different designs.
You just love bad ideas huh. I wasn’t considering mixed justification because that is 100x worse.
Center legends are bad design. I get it, you like them. But if you did mixed justification id sooner pay people to not buy the set than actually spend money on it.
Center legends are bad. Just say no.
Center legends will add cost, unless you half ass it and only center the alphabetical alphas, and leave numbers, function, numpad as cornered. Which is a horrible idea. Then you get into modifiers such as navigation keys which would look awkward as justified keys in comparison.. and cost gets totally out of hand. Stick with cornered and left justified.
Center legends will add cost, unless you half ass it and only center the alphabetical alphas, and leave numbers, function, numpad as cornered. Which is a horrible idea. Then you get into modifiers such as navigation keys which would look awkward as justified keys in comparison.. and cost gets totally out of hand. Stick with cornered and left justified.
I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
Currently this set is needing 26-33(3900€-4950€) custom molds due to the sublegends. Changing all alphas to centered would require an additional 7(1050€) molds for currently unmodified characters, 19(1350€) if you include numrow, 33(4950€) more if you include numpad as well. While the argument could be made that the alphas could be centered without the mods or numpad, choosing to ignore the numrow would look objectively incorrect and mismatched.
My $.02 concerning the completely unnecessary argument about centered legends: anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow, so I don't see a point in catering to them with unconventional centered legends that aren't going to look correct to anyone that enjoys cherry profile for its merits, especially when it would cost more for everyone else joining the GB to make the change. Someone used the argument that if the centered legends were done, they'd be available for future sets. That's great and all except that the centered legends would only be available with the lisp sublegends, making them absolutely useless to anyone that wants a set without them.
Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Unfortunately for people who enjoy proper legends and proper profiles for all caps, the pearl was designed specifically with the re-purposing of 1.5u tab and 1.5u backslash/pipe in mind. This was done to allow the board to be used with essentially any keyset, but had the inverse affect of ensuring it would basically never be fully compatible with any keyset since I don't think any other board uses 1.5u keys in both positions, meaning no set has ever included them.
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Unfortunately for people who enjoy proper legends and proper profiles for all caps, the pearl was designed specifically with the re-purposing of 1.5u tab and 1.5u backslash/pipe in mind. This was done to allow the board to be used with essentially any keyset, but had the inverse affect of ensuring it would basically never be fully compatible with any keyset since I don't think any other board uses 1.5u keys in both positions, meaning no set has ever included them.
Oh well, such a shame. I really like this keyset and I would love to see proper legends and profiles on it... Thanks a lot. Though I believe that SA By the Sea has full compatibility for the Pearl.
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Unfortunately for people who enjoy proper legends and proper profiles for all caps, the pearl was designed specifically with the re-purposing of 1.5u tab and 1.5u backslash/pipe in mind. This was done to allow the board to be used with essentially any keyset, but had the inverse affect of ensuring it would basically never be fully compatible with any keyset since I don't think any other board uses 1.5u keys in both positions, meaning no set has ever included them.
Oh well, such a shame. I really like this keyset and I would love to see proper legends and profiles on it... Thanks a lot. Though I believe that SA By the Sea has full compatibility for the Pearl.
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Unfortunately for people who enjoy proper legends and proper profiles for all caps, the pearl was designed specifically with the re-purposing of 1.5u tab and 1.5u backslash/pipe in mind. This was done to allow the board to be used with essentially any keyset, but had the inverse affect of ensuring it would basically never be fully compatible with any keyset since I don't think any other board uses 1.5u keys in both positions, meaning no set has ever included them.
Centered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Did you not see the render of centered alphas but normal mods?I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
I’m referring TO the centered legend modifiers. They look like trash. Look at the left edge of center justified legends. Look at tab. Look at shift. It’s all over the place.
On standard left justified legends you get a starting point. An anchor for the stagger of the board.
The keys on a standard gmk set are aligned like print media. Center justified is just lazy trash. There was so much thought put into the original placement.
I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money, cause then I won’t be buying the set and I’m thinking I’d have to get at least 2 of every kit with CORRECTLY justified legends.
Did you miss my entire point? I and others in this thread agree with you as far as centered mods vs left justified. But, you can have centered Alphas legends with off centered mods legends. Yeah it looks a bit odd with the combination of two different locations but to me it's better than having off centered alpha legends.
Lazy trash wtf are you even talking about this is a forum about keyboard/keycap designs nothing here is lazy we're having a discussion about the pros/cons of different designs.
You just love bad ideas huh. I wasn’t considering mixed justification because that is 100x worse.
Center legends are bad design. I get it, you like them. But if you did mixed justification id sooner pay people to not buy the set than actually spend money on it.
Center legends are bad. Just say no.
I don't really care for the way you rudely state your opinions as fact. The way you present your arguments makes it seem like you don't really care tbh, like this -
"I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money"
Why should anyone consider your thoughts here at all? Its not based on any information or facts, just an opinion on a few options you've never even seen before, not even rendered correctly
I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
Currently this set is needing 26-33(3900€-4950€) custom molds due to the sublegends. Changing all alphas to centered would require an additional 7(1050€) molds for currently unmodified characters, 19(1350€) if you include numrow, 33(4950€) more if you include numpad as well. While the argument could be made that the alphas could be centered without the mods or numpad, choosing to ignore the numrow would look objectively incorrect and mismatched.
My $.02 concerning the completely unnecessary argument about centered legends: anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow, so I don't see a point in catering to them with unconventional centered legends that aren't going to look correct to anyone that enjoys cherry profile for its merits, especially when it would cost more for everyone else joining the GB to make the change. Someone used the argument that if the centered legends were done, they'd be available for future sets. That's great and all except that the centered legends would only be available with the lisp sublegends, making them absolutely useless to anyone that wants a set without them.
Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Unfortunately for people who enjoy proper legends and proper profiles for all caps, the pearl was designed specifically with the re-purposing of 1.5u tab and 1.5u backslash/pipe in mind. This was done to allow the board to be used with essentially any keyset, but had the inverse affect of ensuring it would basically never be fully compatible with any keyset since I don't think any other board uses 1.5u keys in both positions, meaning no set has ever included them.
I'd just like to point out that the current 40's kit for Neon Gelatin Evangelism includes R3 1.5 Enter and Fn keys, specifically so pearl could use it without that ugly hump :PCentered legends are awful. The best thing about GMK sets is how well everything is aligned and justified. It's all in balance. Centering the legends ruins all of that, look at Tab and Shift. Centering the legends is like the only thing that would keep me from buying this set.
Did you not see the render of centered alphas but normal mods?I am one of those that doesn't care about space cadet any and just wants this because it has cool sublegends and a monotone option. I'm not a fan of it being on Massdrop, but I may break my own rules and join the GB direct instead of waiting for mechmarket extras.
Also, in regards to the current argument, I'm pretty sure most of you missed the little post a couple pages back where it was said that making the legends centered would require many more molds than just the main alphas. ANSI only alphas, including numrow, would require 47(I think) new molds, and then you'd have your weird centered alphas with corner numpad and cornered mods. Realistically, you have 2 choices: centered alphas that don't match the modifiers or the numpad, or leave them cornered like they're supposed to be for cherry profile. Unless you want a base set that looks bad or costs $300, I'd say get your attitudes in check and accept cherry style legends on a cherry set.
This set is already requiring new Alpha molds (afaik no other said has had these symbols) so by changing ONLY to centered alphas you're not adding to the cost. And you can't say it objectively looks bad people have different tastes.
I’m referring TO the centered legend modifiers. They look like trash. Look at the left edge of center justified legends. Look at tab. Look at shift. It’s all over the place.
On standard left justified legends you get a starting point. An anchor for the stagger of the board.
The keys on a standard gmk set are aligned like print media. Center justified is just lazy trash. There was so much thought put into the original placement.
I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money, cause then I won’t be buying the set and I’m thinking I’d have to get at least 2 of every kit with CORRECTLY justified legends.
Did you miss my entire point? I and others in this thread agree with you as far as centered mods vs left justified. But, you can have centered Alphas legends with off centered mods legends. Yeah it looks a bit odd with the combination of two different locations but to me it's better than having off centered alpha legends.
Lazy trash wtf are you even talking about this is a forum about keyboard/keycap designs nothing here is lazy we're having a discussion about the pros/cons of different designs.
You just love bad ideas huh. I wasn’t considering mixed justification because that is 100x worse.
Center legends are bad design. I get it, you like them. But if you did mixed justification id sooner pay people to not buy the set than actually spend money on it.
Center legends are bad. Just say no.
I don't really care for the way you rudely state your opinions as fact. The way you present your arguments makes it seem like you don't really care tbh, like this -
"I guess in the plus side if you ruin the set with centered legends, I get to save a **** ton of money"
Why should anyone consider your thoughts here at all? Its not based on any information or facts, just an opinion on a few options you've never even seen before, not even rendered correctly
I'm sorry I didn't realize everything I said that didn't implicitly include the words "in my opinion" was going to be taken as a statement of fact.
So please allow me to be clear.
The GMK legends are EXTREMELY intentionally designed. It wasn't just some lazy thing.
When I say mixed justification is 100x worse, first I am NOT being literal, but rather hyperbolic, but I am 100% positive if you took a mixed justification render and a standard cherry render and brought them the a design professor 10:10 would tell you the mixed justification was wrong.
By justifying to the left, you create an anchor, a starting point for your perspective. It creates the illusion of the entire layout being aligned because it STARTS aligned. You have to remember, we have trained our brains to read from a corner across, not from the middle. Good design doesn't just change what you see, but how you actually look at it.
You also risk doing things like creating a river or increasing the difficulty for dyslexic people to be able to properly read the legends (this may not matter to you, but a good designer will think about such things).
I also think the argument can easily be made that mixed justifications breaks one of the core design principals, consistency. An inconsistent design, by my measure, IS a bad design.
To me mixed justification is not even worth considering, and while it somehow offended you, I do regularly buy 2x+ of MOST gmk sets, so making this center justified WOULD save me a great deal of money given how much 2 full kits is likely to cost with the kit sizes and number of kits already being discussed here.
So now if we ignore mixed justification we can begin to look at our other options.
We could attempt fully justified, and I actually think for the right 60% board this could look decent, you could left align left mods, right align right mods and center align all the alphas, the problem there is that as soon as you scale PAST 60%, you are right back where you started, so then the question becomes which layout do you design for? Do you center align the right 60% legend and right align the numpad legends? Again. None of these options are consistent and all would ultimately still result in a mixed justification layout.
That ONLY leaves center justified only, but that means you need new legend plates for every single key on the board AND you are breaking compatibility with every single other GMK set being produced. It also opens the door to other problems, sure, with 2 legends you can add center justification on an alpha key without messing with vertical alignment, but what of single legend keys? Is your plan to run this set, spend a ton creating new legends just for center alignment and then never ever using any of those mods again? Or do you think you would want to make a non-space cadet alpha set too? So not just 1 expensive set, but 2 to make all that expense really worthwhile, otherwise you are spending a ton for a single run kit that will never be seen again.
You also ignore that as a standard GMK set, this should have no real issues hitting a decent moq, changing to something that is foreign to GMK buyers (since let's face it, not THAT many people are going to suddenly decide they need $200 in GMK keys just because center alignment) you risk alienating them. And with a kit like this, you need big numbers to cover the new legend costs.
So I'm curious, other than you personally being a fan of centered legends, what are the other upsides? What are the other benefits of using centered legends that negate and balance against the costs and risks? Are there any?
Currently this set is needing 26-33(3900€-4950€) custom molds due to the sublegends. Changing all alphas to centered would require an additional 7(1050€) molds for currently unmodified characters, 19(1350€) if you include numrow, 33(4950€) more if you include numpad as well. While the argument could be made that the alphas could be centered without the mods or numpad, choosing to ignore the numrow would look objectively incorrect and mismatched.
My $.02 concerning the completely unnecessary argument about centered legends: anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow, so I don't see a point in catering to them with unconventional centered legends that aren't going to look correct to anyone that enjoys cherry profile for its merits, especially when it would cost more for everyone else joining the GB to make the change. Someone used the argument that if the centered legends were done, they'd be available for future sets. That's great and all except that the centered legends would only be available with the lisp sublegends, making them absolutely useless to anyone that wants a set without them.
Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
Isn't the blue alpha kit missing the row 1 tilde key?
Any chance for compatibility with the Pearl keyboard? From what I'm seeing it just needs an R3 1.5u "Tab" key and a R3 1.5u "Return key".
Unfortunately for people who enjoy proper legends and proper profiles for all caps, the pearl was designed specifically with the re-purposing of 1.5u tab and 1.5u backslash/pipe in mind. This was done to allow the board to be used with essentially any keyset, but had the inverse affect of ensuring it would basically never be fully compatible with any keyset since I don't think any other board uses 1.5u keys in both positions, meaning no set has ever included them.
Oh well, such a shame. I really like this keyset and I would love to see proper legends and profiles on it... Thanks a lot. Though I believe that SA By the Sea has full compatibility for the Pearl.
...anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow...
Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
...changing to something that is foreign to GMK buyers (since let's face it, not THAT many people are going to suddenly decide they need $200 in GMK keys just because center alignment) you risk alienating them.
...anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow...
That is a good point, and I agree with the premise, however I disagree with the conclusion. The above is not sufficient reason, in my view, to avoid honoring the original legend design, which is a good idea regardless of the style of keycap in question, particularly if you're going to call the set GMK Space Cadet.QuoteCentered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
And then this is where you go off the deep end. Centered legends can go on any keycap, Cherry or otherwise. It is only within the walls of an entombed mind/imagination that the above notion appears to make any sense whatsoever. The Space Cadet keyboard is old, yes, but it is a classic; it's called the "holy grail" of vintage keyboards for a reason, and there are no keyboards from the past I can think of that deserve being so reverently honored with contemporary replica keysets. By simply providing legend accuracy (in addition to the colorway), people are getting something new to enjoy. Compared to all the GMK sets out there, this would surely stand out as new and different....changing to something that is foreign to GMK buyers (since let's face it, not THAT many people are going to suddenly decide they need $200 in GMK keys just because center alignment) you risk alienating them.
The Space Cadet keyboard itself is foreign to most keyboard users, not just GMK buyers. This set shouldn't worry itself over who it alienates, rather, it should really only concern itself with appealing to its primary target audience, which is hobbyists who know and appreciate the original Space Cadet (whether they are frequent GMK buyers or not). All other priorities (apart from reaching MOQ) should be secondary.
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MD isn’t in the business of pleasing hobbyists. Laser was not successful because of them.
And while you as a hobbyist may be a fan of the centered legends, I hate them. I’m not the only one. What exactly is it about your opinion that makes it more valid than those who disagree? What makes it more valid than those who outnumber you?
Your argument seems to be “who cares if most people won’t buy it with centers legends, the few of us who want it this way would be extremely happy”.
You understand the reason Laser was affordable was because there were thousands of people ordering it right?
Also, where does it end? If you are gonna go that far, why don’t we just increase set price a couple hundred or thousand per set and get gmk to make spherical molds. But then they are too short, so might as well get them to make GMK SA, but then we are missing the front print legends, gotta fix that too. And so on and so on.
What about the centered legends makes you think adding them when the majority don’t want them, and given we already know people will buy offset legend sets with characters they don’t know is a good idea?
Also, where does it end? If you are gonna go that far, why don’t we just increase set price a couple hundred or thousand per set and get gmk to make spherical molds. But then they are too short, so might as well get them to make GMK SA, but then we are missing the front print legends, gotta fix that too. And so on and so on.
What about the centered legends makes you think adding them when the majority don’t want them, and given we already know people will buy offset legend sets with characters they don’t know is a good idea?
MD isn’t in the business of pleasing hobbyists.
And while you as a hobbyist may be a fan of the centered legends, I hate them. I’m not the only one. What exactly is it about your opinion that makes it more valid than those who disagree? What makes it more valid than those who outnumber you?
Your argument seems to be “who cares if most people won’t buy it with centers legends, the few of us who want it this way would be extremely happy”.
Also, where does it end? If you are gonna go that far, why don’t we just increase set price a couple hundred or thousand per set and get gmk to make spherical molds.
What about the centered legends makes you think adding them when the majority don’t want them, and given we already know people will buy offset legend sets with characters they don’t know is a good idea?
QuoteAnd while you as a hobbyist may be a fan of the centered legends, I hate them. I’m not the only one. What exactly is it about your opinion that makes it more valid than those who disagree? What makes it more valid than those who outnumber you?
The name of the proposed keycap set ("Space Cadet") is where the validation stems. If it isn't going to aim for as much authenticity as technologically possible (and economically feasible), then it should perhaps use a different name.
I don't mean to butt in but NOW you're arguing that his argument is wrong because he is stating his opinion?? It doesn't take much effort to read your previous 5 replies to get some insane quotes where you go into depth trying to argue that your opinion/preference for off-centered legends is grounded in some kind of fact beyond preference. " GMK legends are EXTREMELY intentionally designed" " increasing the difficulty for dyslexic people to be able to properly read the legends (this may not matter to you, but a good designer will think about such things)" "Center legends are bad design." "You have to remember, we have trained our brains to read from a corner across, not from the middle."
Get the **** out of here with your hypocrisy. Either it's a preference thing, and he's perfectly justified in stating his opinion for why he thinks centered will do well. Or, it's a matter of left justified being somehow "objectively" better in which case you can't dismiss his counter arguments as just stating opinion.
Currently this set is needing 26-33(3900€-4950€) custom molds due to the sublegends. Changing all alphas to centered would require an additional 7(1050€) molds for currently unmodified characters, 19(1350€) if you include numrow, 33(4950€) more if you include numpad as well. While the argument could be made that the alphas could be centered without the mods or numpad, choosing to ignore the numrow would look objectively incorrect and mismatched.You are incorrect, on quite a few points...
My $.02 concerning the completely unnecessary argument about centered legends: anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow, so I don't see a point in catering to them with unconventional centered legends that aren't going to look correct to anyone that enjoys cherry profile for its merits, especially when it would cost more for everyone else joining the GB to make the change. Someone used the argument that if the centered legends were done, they'd be available for future sets. That's great and all except that the centered legends would only be available with the lisp sublegends, making them absolutely useless to anyone that wants a set without them.
Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
Currently this set is needing 26-33(3900€-4950€) custom molds due to the sublegends. Changing all alphas to centered would require an additional 7(1050€) molds for currently unmodified characters, 19(1350€) if you include numrow, 33(4950€) more if you include numpad as well. While the argument could be made that the alphas could be centered without the mods or numpad, choosing to ignore the numrow would look objectively incorrect and mismatched.You are incorrect, on quite a few points...
My $.02 concerning the completely unnecessary argument about centered legends: anyone that cares enough about space cadet to want it historically accurate or whatever argument they're using isn't going to be happy with a cherry profile mimicry anyhow, so I don't see a point in catering to them with unconventional centered legends that aren't going to look correct to anyone that enjoys cherry profile for its merits, especially when it would cost more for everyone else joining the GB to make the change. Someone used the argument that if the centered legends were done, they'd be available for future sets. That's great and all except that the centered legends would only be available with the lisp sublegends, making them absolutely useless to anyone that wants a set without them.
Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps. The only people arguing this are the people that care more about copying something old and decrepit rather than adjusting and creating something new for people to enjoy.
If this argument (though, personally, I'd choose the word "discussion") was unnecessary, we wouldn't be having it. Clearly there are interested parties on both sides.
Some people are interested in a visually accurate (legends, as much as possible) but tactilely superior (IMHO) experience. Making a comment that amounts to 'just use another profile' is particularly lame and ignores the fact that the legends have nothing to do with how the keys feel. Many people prefer cherry profile and I really dislike typing on SA in particular.
My statement about having them available for the community to use was specifically with regard to the numrow, which should have been clear:
"I'm neither for nor against the centered mods but I'd suggest that doing so would create value for the community. The centered mods and numbers could then be used by other sets. Perhaps another group buy could do centered alphas and then the community would have both centered and standard GMK molds to work with."
There are already caps from GMK with centered legends, not alphas obviously, but caps with centered legends none the less so saying "Centered legends have no place on cherry profile caps." is a particularly weak argument.
I very much agree with your first two points. Which GMK caps had centered legends?
I very much agree with your first two points. Which GMK caps had centered legends?
Maybe novelties but can't think of any so wanting to be proven wrong :eek:
I very much agree with your first two points. Which GMK caps had centered legends?
Maybe novelties but can't think of any so wanting to be proven wrong :eek:
That was my only after-thought as well
I very much agree with your first two points. Which GMK caps had centered legends?
Maybe novelties but can't think of any so wanting to be proven wrong :eek:
Which GMK caps had centered legends?
Which GMK caps had centered legends?
That Rebirth set that JChan ran through Keyclack is Cherry profile with center legends, as is the WhiteFox set that I:C runs their boards with. Just to name two.
Which GMK caps had centered legends?
That Rebirth set that JChan ran through Keyclack is Cherry profile with center legends, as is the WhiteFox set that I:C runs their boards with. Just to name two.
Neither are GMK.
Which GMK caps had centered legends?
That Rebirth set that JChan ran through Keyclack is Cherry profile with center legends, as is the WhiteFox set that I:C runs their boards with. Just to name two.
I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?
The centered legends work better on the spherical profiles of SA or DSA imo, since the text is finer and sometimes smaller.
Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.
Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.
I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.
Yah, I was primarily referring to novelties but there are some other GMK keys that are effectively centered due to the legend length... 1.5u Control for instance. I'm sure there are others.Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.
I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.
The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"
Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.
I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.
The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"
I very much agree with your first two points. Which GMK caps had centered legends?
Maybe novelties but can't think of any so wanting to be proven wrong :eek:
some keys on the bottom row, windows logos, menu, "control," and i think there's one other
arguably full caps lock
pause, prtsc, scroll lock (but it's left aligned)
but that's it, nothing super notable, nothing that requires readability
Not GMK, but Cherry profile - both were dyesub iirc. MUCH different than doubleshot ABS.
I would say that the differences between dyesub and double-shot, or the molecular composition of the plastic, is entirely immaterial to the aesthetic differences between centered vs. corner legends.
The intial question was "Which GMK caps had centered legends?"
This legend discussion has run its course. Every possible argument and retort has been laid down, both sides have written their thesis, and now it's up to Oblotzky to decide and tell us he's going with the original mock up :D. I'd implore you all to move on to other topics.
I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?
I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.
First of all you got the wrong triumph Adler picture, gmk triumph Adler is a remake of the TA Dario boards which looked roughly like that (but with darker alphas). And the gmk royal alpha keyset ran in the base kit with white mods, the green mods were an add on. This comparison went really wrong.I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?
I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.
Space Cadet is a name. Have you ever actually looked at any of the sets "tribute" sets are based on?
GMK Triumph Adler:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/MD-5860_20150323164918_c453801695fe9f5d.jpg)
Actual Triumph Adler:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cDSCxPx.jpg)
GMK Royal Alpha:Show Image(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8467/28407204060_02bb635ce7_b.jpg)
Actual Royal Alpha:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yzkFh2l.jpg)
Heck, even 9009 isn't actually a true reproduction:Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80434.0;attach=158448;image)
You mention economic feasibility, but seem to ignore all the people telling you doing so likely IS NOT. How is calling it miss leading or disrespectful? By that logic you could also say it's misleading to sell a set as a GMK set when it's not consistent with the GMK product and you could say its disrespectful to the original designers of the cherry layout.
Looking at the renders, to ME it's extremely obvious what the basis of the set is, and I'd imagine the original designers are more likely to be flattered than offended "how dare you change our functional design for an old massive keyboard and adapt it to suit your normal design which no longer uses all our extra legends for anything functional, that is so offensive" Does this sound like something someone would say?
I totally get that you want centered legends, but you are ignoring all the reasons they dont make sense just because you really like them.
First of all you got the wrong triumph Adler picture, gmk triumph Adler is a remake of the TA Dario boards which looked roughly like that (but with darker alphas). And the gmk royal alpha keyset ran in the base kit with white mods, the green mods were an add on. This comparison went really wrong.I don't see the logic in this - because it's based on Space Cadet, it absolutely has to have centered legends? If it doesn't, it shouldn't be called Space Cadet?
I'd rephrase the "logic" as this: tribute sets should, whenever possible, seek to emulate the aesthetics of the original as much as technically and economically feasible, particularly when said aesthetic is especially distinctive and/or historically significant. It is merely a design approach which makes the most sense to me. In addition, if you aren't going to do a tribute set, then don't name it as if it was one, as it is misleading at best and disrespectful (to the memory of the original) at worst.
Space Cadet is a name. Have you ever actually looked at any of the sets "tribute" sets are based on?
GMK Triumph Adler:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/MD-5860_20150323164918_c453801695fe9f5d.jpg)
Actual Triumph Adler:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cDSCxPx.jpg)
GMK Royal Alpha:Show Image(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8467/28407204060_02bb635ce7_b.jpg)
Actual Royal Alpha:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yzkFh2l.jpg)
Heck, even 9009 isn't actually a true reproduction:Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80434.0;attach=158448;image)
You mention economic feasibility, but seem to ignore all the people telling you doing so likely IS NOT. How is calling it miss leading or disrespectful? By that logic you could also say it's misleading to sell a set as a GMK set when it's not consistent with the GMK product and you could say its disrespectful to the original designers of the cherry layout.
Looking at the renders, to ME it's extremely obvious what the basis of the set is, and I'd imagine the original designers are more likely to be flattered than offended "how dare you change our functional design for an old massive keyboard and adapt it to suit your normal design which no longer uses all our extra legends for anything functional, that is so offensive" Does this sound like something someone would say?
I totally get that you want centered legends, but you are ignoring all the reasons they dont make sense just because you really like them.
Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.
Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.
Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...
(Attachment Link)
Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.
Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...
(Attachment Link)
also chronicler
Regardless, none of them, exactly resemble the sets the copy, they are INSPIRED by them, not carbon copies.
Is it common to have SA caps non-doubleshot?
Centered legends is a defining feature of SA keycaps or more generally spherical keycaps not Space Cadet. Space Cadet was not made with centered legends because it was space cadet, it was made with centered legends because the keycap profile it was made in used centered legends.
Please stop stating your options as fact. Not all doubleshot SA caps have centered legends...
(Attachment Link)
also chronicler
By mistake too :confused: :confused:
Is it common to have SA caps non-doubleshot?
I don't understand why people are still pushing for centered legends on this set.
I thought this was GMK, not SA.. :joy:
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.
Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.
What if someone wants the original aesthetic but prefers Cherry profile? The closest compromise is to keep everything exactly the same, but change the profile. The next closest compromise is change profile & change alignment.
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
The sarcasm, it's too stronk!
Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legends
Seriously tho, if this is actually an adaptation to cherry profile, why even consider anything but cherry legends? Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity. To change that is the same as saying that a core component of the profile you're trying to adapt to isn't as important as keeping the inspiration as original as possible, in which case you shouldn't be changing profiles to begin with. If changing to cherry is more important, you go with cherry legends, if keeping the set original is more important, you keep the set SA.
What if someone wants the original aesthetic but prefers Cherry profile? The closest compromise is to keep everything exactly the same, but change the profile. The next closest compromise is change profile & change alignment.
I think one of the most important things you can learn in this hobby is how much you can want something unique before it's too much to expect others to support. Weird layouts is particularly applicable to this as far as super niche layouts wanting support from sets that come out. For a set that's meant to be sold to hundreds or sometimes a thousand or more different people, it's unrealistic to expect the set creator to add stuff to the set that's gonna increase the cost for many and benefit only a small portion. This is one of those instances. There may be some people that value the original styling over cherry styling but still want cherry profile, but they are almost certainly a sever minority. Anyone on MD that is willing to spend the amount of money we do on plastic for their keyboards is most likely not going to want this set to match some old keyboard from wherever, they're going to expect an experience consistent with other GMK sets and cherry styling. Centered legends would be akin to making the base kit ISO-DE with no child kits to make it ansi again and also costing more money for some reason, but overall catering to a clear minority.
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legendsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg)
I very much appreciate all the discussion going on regarding legends, but I have to put an end to the constant back and forth.
I will keep the legends as they are depicted in the renders right now. This set is supposed to be inspired by the Space Cadet, not be a replication of it. I'm taking colors and APL symbols from the original, and merging it with the design rules made by Cherry to bring it to their cylindrical profile. Meaning we remain having the primary alpha legend in the top left corner, while secondary legends go in the bottom right, not the other way around as it is done on the OG Cadet, and certainly not centered. And naturally, this means modifier text is aligned to the left side of caps.
There are currently two things on my todo list: I will be adding a 40% kit, and a Text+Icons kit that brings back the caps some of you so dearly miss in the current base kit (not a second base kit, but the 11 keys that have those legends as a addon pack)
Because if this is intended as a tribute set, then there is no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the original, regardless of the shape of the keycap. I know logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
Well if this is intended as a cherry profile set, then there's no logical reason to depart from the legend style of the profile, regardless of the inspiration source. I know the logic of this is difficult to accept, but surely it isn't difficult to understand.
There is logic for both sides though?
The argument is whether to use the style of the OG set or the profile that's being adapted.
knowing oblotzky, i'm about 95% sure this will be non-centered legendsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg)
I very much appreciate all the discussion going on regarding legends, but I have to put an end to the constant back and forth.
I will keep the legends as they are depicted in the renders right now. This set is supposed to be inspired by the Space Cadet, not be a replication of it. I'm taking colors and APL symbols from the original, and merging it with the design rules made by Cherry to bring it to their cylindrical profile. Meaning we remain having the primary alpha legend in the top left corner, while secondary legends go in the bottom right, not the other way around as it is done on the OG Cadet, and certainly not centered. And naturally, this means modifier text is aligned to the left side of caps.
There are currently two things on my todo list: I will be adding a 40% kit, and a Text+Icons kit that brings back the caps some of you so dearly miss in the current base kit (not a second base kit, but the 11 keys that have those legends as a addon pack)
To be fair the legends were going to be the flashpoint of the set no matter what. As we've all learned people are REALLY passionate about how their lettering looks. Never mind the fact that 90 percent of us are touch typists and we're going to be paying attention to it maybe a few times a day.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/QgaWy4T.png)
we've been played boys
To be fair the legends were going to be the flashpoint of the set no matter what. As we've all learned people are REALLY passionate about how their lettering looks. Never mind the fact that 90 percent of us are touch typists and we're going to be paying attention to it maybe a few times a day.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/QgaWy4T.png)
we've been played boys
The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."
Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.
I didn't even want to participate in this thread because there's so much cancer in it...but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."
Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.
This. So much this.
Saying that they should stick to corner legends because it would cost too much to make new molds for centered legends is perfectly reasonable and I don't think anyone even disputed that point. But saying that they should stick to corner legends because it somehow wouldn't be Cherry profile if the legends were moved is completely insane.
Learn to think outside the box a little people.
I didn't even want to participate in this thread because there's so much cancer in it...but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."
Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.
This. So much this.
Saying that they should stick to corner legends because it would cost too much to make new molds for centered legends is perfectly reasonable and I don't think anyone even disputed that point. But saying that they should stick to corner legends because it somehow wouldn't be Cherry profile if the legends were moved is completely insane.
Learn to think outside the box a little people.
And I made a render, and it looked like arse. Cherry made the right call. There are plenty of things where I stopped and asked "why is this done like that?" and if I disagreed, I changed it. E.g. Prt Sc legend and SysReq/Break sideprints are aweful, first thing I threw out when I made a GMK set. And now the same for Pg Dn turned Page Down etc. But alpha legend alignment was not one of those things.
We need a link in the OP something like
"TL;DR: Legends are in the corner. Skip to page 9 for further updates and discussion."
I'm not trying to continue the debate, but I think you should qualify this statement. Something like, "I made a render and it looked like arse for Space Cadet", with which I'd agree. But your next sentence, "Cherry made the right call." makes it seem like a blanket statement that centered legends don't work on cylindrical profiles and I don't think that's accurate. I think it didn't look good for Space Cadet because of the secondary legends which just made the cap look crowded and messy.I didn't even want to participate in this thread because there's so much cancer in it...but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.The point was not letting absurd notions pass unchallenged. Like this one: "Cherry's legends are an integral part of its identity."
Keycap shape and legend style are completely orthogonal properties. Period. The sooner people understand this, the sooner they will realize that corner legends on cylindrical keycaps is simply what they like (based, I believe, entirely on it being what they are used to), not what is inherently "right" or "natural" or "best". In this particular case it is merely what is common. And that is not always the best quality to base a creative (design) decision upon.
This. So much this.
Saying that they should stick to corner legends because it would cost too much to make new molds for centered legends is perfectly reasonable and I don't think anyone even disputed that point. But saying that they should stick to corner legends because it somehow wouldn't be Cherry profile if the legends were moved is completely insane.
Learn to think outside the box a little people.
And I made a render, and it looked like arse. Cherry made the right call. There are plenty of things where I stopped and asked "why is this done like that?" and if I disagreed, I changed it. E.g. Prt Sc legend and SysReq/Break sideprints are aweful, first thing I threw out when I made a GMK set. And now the same for Pg Dn turned Page Down etc. But alpha legend alignment was not one of those things.
Also, no one has mentioned text only arrow keys :rolleyes:
And I made a render, and it looked like arse.
Will the Nav Key legends be similar to these?
(Attachment Link)
(caps came off a Cherry G80-1000)
Will the Nav Key legends be similar to these?
(Attachment Link)
(caps came off a Cherry G80-1000)
You can check the legends in the base kit in the first post.
Just checking in again to whine about the iso options. Could something like this be possible...?Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94291.0;attach=190029;image)
Just checking in again to whine about the iso options. Could something like this be possible...?Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94291.0;attach=190029;image)
NORDE should cover it
Also, no one has mentioned text only arrow keys :rolleyes:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FnDwJj3.gif)
Just checking in again to whine about the iso options. Could something like this be possible...?Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94291.0;attach=190029;image)
NORDE should cover it
Oh yeh I know mate, I'm on about in the base set for people that don't want to spend money on a load of caps they arent going to use, whilst not having duplicates i.e. \| above right shift and to the right of left shift. Thanks anyway though
Just checking in again to whine about the iso options. Could something like this be possible...?Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94291.0;attach=190029;image)
NORDE should cover it
Oh yeh I know mate, I'm on about in the base set for people that don't want to spend money on a load of caps they arent going to use, whilst not having duplicates i.e. \| above right shift and to the right of left shift. Thanks anyway though
split shift and the extra key near enter are accounted for, as well as iso enter
Bundling alphas into the ergopreonic kit may ultimately be the right call, but it does make it awkward for people who’d want to use the alternative blue ones. It becomes huge overkill just to fill in the bottom and sides of small ortho layouts.
I get that the grey alphas are integral to the set’s identity, but it would be interesting to see how the numbers would break down on the popularity between the two. I really like how it looks in monochromatic blue.
If they do stay, would there be any chance of getting planck coverage somehow else, say as as part of the potential 40% kit or in a pack of 1u blanks for misc. coverage?
Bundling alphas into the ergopreonic kit may ultimately be the right call, but it does make it awkward for people who’d want to use the alternative blue ones. It becomes huge overkill just to fill in the bottom and sides of small ortho layouts.
I get that the grey alphas are integral to the set’s identity, but it would be interesting to see how the numbers would break down on the popularity between the two. I really like how it looks in monochromatic blue.
If they do stay, would there be any chance of getting planck coverage somehow else, say as as part of the potential 40% kit or in a pack of 1u blanks for misc. coverage?
If I did the Ergopreonic kit like it was done in other drops so far without the alphas, that would indeed make it nice for people that only want to combine it with blue alphas. But for those looking to get it with gray, they'd end up paying 50$+ more than with the current setup as they have to purchase the entire base kit. And those that want to have both are also looking at a steep total, having to buy all three kits. The current setup is the best solution IMO.
Regarding planck/preonic with legends, I'll be creating a 40% kit for Minivan/Mechmini/JD40/JD45 and whatever first. If it doesn't need many keys to also have preonic covered with legends I'll add that, but if not there's still the blanks version through the Ergopreonic kit.
QuoteIf I did the Ergopreonic kit like it was done in other drops so far without the alphas, that would indeed make it nice for people that only want to combine it with blue alphas. But for those looking to get it with gray, they'd end up paying 50$+ more than with the current setup as they have to purchase the entire base kit. And those that want to have both are also looking at a steep total, having to buy all three kits. The current setup is the best solution IMO.
Regarding planck/preonic with legends, I'll be creating a 40% kit for Minivan/Mechmini/JD40/JD45 and whatever first. If it doesn't need many keys to also have preonic covered with legends I'll add that, but if not there's still the blanks version through the Ergopreonic kit.
Thanks. I can see how it would benefit the majority of users.
I don't really understand why GMK's pricing still seems to favour large inclusive kits for the big (Massdrop) groupbuys. Surely they would end up hitting the same MOQs/order totals if it were SP style with individual alpha/modifier/extension options... Is it really so much more expensive to sort and distribute the different combinations?
After looking at the design of this set for a while, and comparing it to the original design, I do not like that the sublegends are all over the map with their stroke width. It seems as though they should all the the same stroke width at least, and possibly less bold than the main alpha characters. The consistency of legends is one of the appealing attributes of the original design.
I realize I'm pretty late to the discussion -- but has the legend color for the alphas ever been discussed?
They look like a bright/neon yellow on the original Space Caded board, but the GMK set is using an off-white.
I like getting as close to the inspiration as possible, so something like GE1, or a custom blend... At least a render, or preferrably a sample of that combination would be nice.
Exactly. I'm pretty sure Oblotzky is going for a "new-ish" look for the keycaps, not a "really old, and horribly yellowed" look.
Any word on how soon this will happen? There are still sets that MD has committed to run so I'm assuming sometime in the next 3 months? Does that sound about right?
Either way I gotta start saving up. Gunning for two sets of this. Looks fantastic.
I know this is very late, did you consider additional side printing? The Original space cadet keyboard had greek letters side printed on keys, and a modifier to access the side printed modifier. If not I wonder whether transfers could be added to the keys after manufacture, would there be space? I assume a transfer would last as it would not need to be touched.
There are a number of keyboards out that have left hand 2 x 5 vertical "function" key cluster. It would be nice if the there were some more ways to leverage the Symbols keys in that cluster.
Right now you could map one cluster of greys (either the I-IV or the hands) to R1/R2 and then a cluster of blues to R4/R4 (assuming the rows of the F column stack align with R1 R2 R3 R4 R4) leaving a gap at R3. The R3 Pageup/down keys cold fill that gap if they are not already in use (and there is a 1u R3 Code key as well), but the symbol set itself is a bit lacking in R3 options.
If the blue cluster could be aligned with R3/R4 as well as R4/R4 it would open up the bottom R4 for 1u mods, though that would probably not be practical. Possibly just 2 blank R3 keys available in the Symbols set would at least give a simple option to fill the stack in a way that wouldn't trigger too much OCD.
Purely selfish since I just signed up for a board that has this particular cluster :-)
TC-V3? ;)
I've thought about that myself how to cover it. I might look into the Symbols kit again to see if it can cover macro columns better.
There are a number of keyboards out that have left hand 2 x 5 vertical "function" key cluster. It would be nice if the there were some more ways to leverage the Symbols keys in that cluster.
Right now you could map one cluster of greys (either the I-IV or the hands) to R1/R2 and then a cluster of blues to R4/R4 (assuming the rows of the F column stack align with R1 R2 R3 R4 R4) leaving a gap at R3. The R3 Pageup/down keys cold fill that gap if they are not already in use (and there is a 1u R3 Code key as well), but the symbol set itself is a bit lacking in R3 options.
If the blue cluster could be aligned with R3/R4 as well as R4/R4 it would open up the bottom R4 for 1u mods, though that would probably not be practical. Possibly just 2 blank R3 keys available in the Symbols set would at least give a simple option to fill the stack in a way that wouldn't trigger too much OCD.
Purely selfish since I just signed up for a board that has this particular cluster :-)
TC-V3? ;)
I've thought about that myself how to cover it. I might look into the Symbols kit again to see if it can cover macro columns better.
There are a number of keyboards out that have left hand 2 x 5 vertical "function" key cluster. It would be nice if the there were some more ways to leverage the Symbols keys in that cluster.
Right now you could map one cluster of greys (either the I-IV or the hands) to R1/R2 and then a cluster of blues to R4/R4 (assuming the rows of the F column stack align with R1 R2 R3 R4 R4) leaving a gap at R3. The R3 Pageup/down keys cold fill that gap if they are not already in use (and there is a 1u R3 Code key as well), but the symbol set itself is a bit lacking in R3 options.
If the blue cluster could be aligned with R3/R4 as well as R4/R4 it would open up the bottom R4 for 1u mods, though that would probably not be practical. Possibly just 2 blank R3 keys available in the Symbols set would at least give a simple option to fill the stack in a way that wouldn't trigger too much OCD.
Purely selfish since I just signed up for a board that has this particular cluster :-)
TC-V3? ;)
I've thought about that myself how to cover it. I might look into the Symbols kit again to see if it can cover macro columns better.
I'd would love to see this happen;
TC-V3 is my end game board and it would look fantastic with macro keys with right profile rows!
Some additional icon/novelty keys in R3 would make this kit so much better, since now it only have "III" and "left icon."
Vea, some redscarf kit, kmac mini and the current Duck GB. And probably some more future GBs as there is at least some demand for such layouts
So so excited for this set. I mentioned it to Oblotzky directly, but I think the Ergodox mods need legends. Especially if they're Lisp programming terms instead of proper legends, I think it suits the tone of this set a lot better than blanks. Blanks would be cheaper though :D
Vea, some redscarf kit, kmac mini and the current Duck GB. And probably some more future GBs as there is at least some demand for such layouts
Oh, that's neat. I wasn't aware.
Vea, some redscarf kit, kmac mini and the current Duck GB. And probably some more future GBs as there is at least some demand for such layouts
Oh, that's neat. I wasn't aware.
Because it is the layout used by the Model F keyboard for the original IBM PC it does seem to re-occur as a design element.
Did I totally miss something, how did this go from Space Cadet to Yet Another Japanese Set? :/
I posted it on the Serika discussion page and I'll say it again - I really wish designers would stop adding Japanese legends to everything just because they can...
Lost interest with japanese legends.
What are you guys on about?
Hiragana now?
Nice bait-n-switch
I won't join if there aren't Japanese legends.
I wonder when this is queue'd up for Massdrop, hopefully next.
space cadet hiragana best space cadet
its okay to be wrong my friendspace cadet hiragana best space cadet
please dear god no.
its okay to be wrong my friendspace cadet hiragana best space cadet
please dear god no.
Hiragana main with the Space Cadet secondaries. Hiragana mono alternative kit instead of that blue thing you have now.
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
Okay, now I definitely know this is a joke. There's no way we'd get them as soon as 2026!Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
In 4 Cosmonaut w Cyrillic sublegendsOh, my gosh... It's so amazingly fitting...
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
Round8!!!!! Will SP still be around?Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
Red Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
Dont give him more ideas monkaSRed Space Cadet with Israeli legends when
Red Cadet sounds pretty damn cool tbh
True.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)
Agreed. Alright bois MD buy is canceled, I'll be working with 7bit to bring this to life as Round 8 using ALGOL colors. Colors will be grey, red, green, blue, violett on cream, plus cream on grey, red, green, blue, violett.
Kits will be added to his website soon http://7bit.info/algol/index.html#icons
See you in 2026Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TBouSin.png)
This should be a thing.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)Show Image(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/200.gif)
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)Show Image(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/200.gif)
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)Show Image(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/200.gif)
Shouldn't it be "Kadet" for the red version?
I'm hesitant to post one of the new kits here in fears of it being too expensive and me having to backpaddel, so I'd rather make sure it's viable before people fall in love with it.
Really looking forward to joining this as my first GMK set! :thumb:
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)Show Image(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/200.gif)
I'd splurge that with the power of a million supernovas.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)Show Image(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/200.gif)
I'd tap that with the force of a thousand suns
Shouldn't it be "Kadet" for the red version?
Shouldn't it be "Kadet" for the red version?
What are “Lisp legends”?Moses, Mike Tyson, Drew Barrymore, Barbara Walters, et al.
(Attachment Link)
Hey! Your profile picture is my profile picture! :p
(Attachment Link)
What are “Lisp legends”?Moses, Mike Tyson, Drew Barrymore, Barbara Walters, et al.
Hey! Your profile picture is my profile picture! :p
(Attachment Link)
No, mine is the same as wilbas.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UIR8Ar0.png)Show Image(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/200.gif)
Looks good, but I'm not sure I agree with text arrow keys. :-Xagreed, doesn’t really fit with the style
It fits exactly with the style. The rest of the mods are text, but arrows are included as well.Looks good, but I'm not sure I agree with text arrow keys. :-Xagreed, doesn’t really fit with the style
This is just a nitpick, but the secondary legends on other keys look out of place now because the thickness doesn't match the updated APL legends. For example the '≥' looks giant compared to the ','
Are those moods yours then (like I got told about microns) or are they free to use by future gb runners?
Well if you really want to talk about it fitting the theme, the original space cadet was also not text based.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Irr1IX3.jpg)
I'm new around here, so my input may be insta-ditch, but some thoughts:
1. Vimcaps are super-popular, right? I understand that it's not quiiiite “true to the original board”, but what about moving the double-arrow on L to G, and then arranging the arrows on HJKL, vim-style? Saves quite a few of us an extra group-buy, later — and shouldn't bother the non-vimmers, 'cause it's not like the legends are meaningful to anyone else! ('cept the two APL users reading this thread … ;)
2. Personally? I'd instantly pay $80 for the Colevrak set, if there were only like ten other people who'd be interested in it. Hell — I'd drop a couple hundred, paying for a few of those moulds myself. It's really hard to find sculpted caps with Colevrak support; and Space Cadet is a lot of developer-keeb-nerds' #1 endgame. This leaves people like me having to choose between … A. a non-sculpted layout, … B. keycaps that disagree with the actual layout (fine for us touch-typers, but sucks for pairing / family who want to use your machine), … or C. using whichever of the two(?) colorways that *do* have sculpted Colemak caps floating around out there you hate less. ;)
Maybe I don't understand how MOQs work … but why not just offer it at a higher price, for us needy niche nerds, if you're worried too few people will be interested? :thumb:
I'm new around here, so my input may be insta-ditch, but some thoughts:
1. Vimcaps are super-popular, right? I understand that it's not quiiiite “true to the original board”, but what about moving the double-arrow on L to G, and then arranging the arrows on HJKL, vim-style? Saves quite a few of us an extra group-buy, later — and shouldn't bother the non-vimmers, 'cause it's not like the legends are meaningful to anyone else! ('cept the two APL users reading this thread … ;)
2. Personally? I'd instantly pay $80 for the Colevrak set, if there were only like ten other people who'd be interested in it. Hell — I'd drop a couple hundred, paying for a few of those moulds myself. It's really hard to find sculpted caps with Colevrak support; and Space Cadet is a lot of developer-keeb-nerds' #1 endgame. This leaves people like me having to choose between … A. a non-sculpted layout, … B. keycaps that disagree with the actual layout (fine for us touch-typers, but sucks for pairing / family who want to use your machine), … or C. using whichever of the two(?) colorways that *do* have sculpted Colemak caps floating around out there you hate less. ;)
Maybe I don't understand how MOQs work … but why not just offer it at a higher price, for us needy niche nerds, if you're worried too few people will be interested? :thumb:
1. As far as I can tell, VIM caps aren't THAT popular. Sure they sell here and there, but they are never a game changer. Staying true to the original APL legends is more important IMO, and there was not much support for this idea when it was suggested before already.
2. MOQ is 100 units for a Colevrak kit, even GMK Laser with 2100 base kits only sold 63 of them at 43$. Granted the Kobe alphas probably stole a handful of potential customers but still.
I'm new around here, so my input may be insta-ditch, but some thoughts:
1. Vimcaps are super-popular, right? I understand that it's not quiiiite “true to the original board”, but what about moving the double-arrow on L to G, and then arranging the arrows on HJKL, vim-style? Saves quite a few of us an extra group-buy, later — and shouldn't bother the non-vimmers, 'cause it's not like the legends are meaningful to anyone else! ('cept the two APL users reading this thread … ;)
2. Personally? I'd instantly pay $80 for the Colevrak set, if there were only like ten other people who'd be interested in it. Hell — I'd drop a couple hundred, paying for a few of those moulds myself. It's really hard to find sculpted caps with Colevrak support; and Space Cadet is a lot of developer-keeb-nerds' #1 endgame. This leaves people like me having to choose between … A. a non-sculpted layout, … B. keycaps that disagree with the actual layout (fine for us touch-typers, but sucks for pairing / family who want to use your machine), … or C. using whichever of the two(?) colorways that *do* have sculpted Colemak caps floating around out there you hate less. ;)
Maybe I don't understand how MOQs work … but why not just offer it at a higher price, for us needy niche nerds, if you're worried too few people will be interested? :thumb:
1. As far as I can tell, VIM caps aren't THAT popular. Sure they sell here and there, but they are never a game changer. Staying true to the original APL legends is more important IMO, and there was not much support for this idea when it was suggested before already.
2. MOQ is 100 units for a Colevrak kit, even GMK Laser with 2100 base kits only sold 63 of them at 43$. Granted the Kobe alphas probably stole a handful of potential customers but still.
I had already asked for vim caps, which is quite logical, since having a keyboard with arrows that are usable in some contexts is more brilliant than having a filological correct keyboard.
Anyway this keyset is full of symbols that 99% of people doesn't recognize so there's that.
A vim addon shouldn't be that expensive, if someone decides to buy more than one kit.
1) You could "fool" gmk into thinking that those keys are part of the main set, this way the GB leader will only pay 3 usd for the 5 or 6 keys needed (you need to replace duplicates).
2) Then the GB leader removes the separately packaged keys from each main set, and he can sell the keys as an addon.
3) Profit.
hi, which stage are we at now?
exact space cadet now or any chance change to red cadet?
The scheduled GB time is July ,first on MD as you have mentioned ? :thumb:
I'm new around here, so my input may be insta-ditch, but some thoughts:
1. Vimcaps are super-popular, right? I understand that it's not quiiiite “true to the original board”, but what about moving the double-arrow on L to G, and then arranging the arrows on HJKL, vim-style? Saves quite a few of us an extra group-buy, later — and shouldn't bother the non-vimmers, 'cause it's not like the legends are meaningful to anyone else! ('cept the two APL users reading this thread … ;)
2. Personally? I'd instantly pay $80 for the Colevrak set, if there were only like ten other people who'd be interested in it. Hell — I'd drop a couple hundred, paying for a few of those moulds myself. It's really hard to find sculpted caps with Colevrak support; and Space Cadet is a lot of developer-keeb-nerds' #1 endgame. This leaves people like me having to choose between … A. a non-sculpted layout, … B. keycaps that disagree with the actual layout (fine for us touch-typers, but sucks for pairing / family who want to use your machine), … or C. using whichever of the two(?) colorways that *do* have sculpted Colemak caps floating around out there you hate less. ;)
Maybe I don't understand how MOQs work … but why not just offer it at a higher price, for us needy niche nerds, if you're worried too few people will be interested? :thumb:
1. As far as I can tell, VIM caps aren't THAT popular. Sure they sell here and there, but they are never a game changer. Staying true to the original APL legends is more important IMO, and there was not much support for this idea when it was suggested before already.
2. MOQ is 100 units for a Colevrak kit, even GMK Laser with 2100 base kits only sold 63 of them at 43$. Granted the Kobe alphas probably stole a handful of potential customers but still.
I had already asked for vim caps, which is quite logical, since having a keyboard with arrows that are usable in some contexts is more brilliant than having a filological correct keyboard.
Anyway this keyset is full of symbols that 99% of people doesn't recognize so there's that.
A vim addon shouldn't be that expensive, if someone decides to buy more than one kit.
1) You could "fool" gmk into thinking that those keys are part of the main set, this way the GB leader will only pay 3 usd for the 5 or 6 keys needed (you need to replace duplicates).
2) Then the GB leader removes the separately packaged keys from each main set, and he can sell the keys as an addon.
3) Profit.
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
Whoa there, there are lots of vim users out there. But actual vim users don't need special keycaps to know where the cursor keys are...
(That aside I still don't know why people call them vim keycaps, it should really be vi keycaps. There is nothing vim-specific about it, and if anything vim users are more likely to be using standard arrow keys. Old versions of vi didn't even support arrow keys and you had to hjkl. Yet we call them vim keys for some reason? It's weird...)
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
Whoa there, there are lots of vim users out there.
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
Whoa there, there are lots of vim users out there. But actual vim users don't need special keycaps to know where the cursor keys are...
(That aside I still don't know why people call them vim keycaps, it should really be vi keycaps. There is nothing vim-specific about it, and if anything vim users are more likely to be using standard arrow keys. Old versions of vi didn't even support arrow keys and you had to hjkl. Yet we call them vim keys for some reason? It's weird...)
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
Whoa there, there are lots of vim users out there. But actual vim users don't need special keycaps to know where the cursor keys are...
(That aside I still don't know why people call them vim keycaps, it should really be vi keycaps. There is nothing vim-specific about it, and if anything vim users are more likely to be using standard arrow keys. Old versions of vi didn't even support arrow keys and you had to hjkl. Yet we call them vim keys for some reason? It's weird...)
I don't need no printed arrows, it's simply that you with this set, you know that you have the wrong arrows printed in your keycaps. That's the autistically annoying pressing fact.
VIM is cool I guess, but I definitely am not buying [what is supposed to be] a historical reproduction with VIM keys. Also shouldn't we call Red Cadet, Space Comrade?Show Image(https://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/space_prop001-780x527.jpg)
I can't even be bothered to type how that doesn't even make sense.
And no, despite the fact that yes most people wouldn't care about the arrows, there are certainly more people that want correct APL legends than there are fans of VIM.
Whoa there, there are lots of vim users out there. But actual vim users don't need special keycaps to know where the cursor keys are...
(That aside I still don't know why people call them vim keycaps, it should really be vi keycaps. There is nothing vim-specific about it, and if anything vim users are more likely to be using standard arrow keys. Old versions of vi didn't even support arrow keys and you had to hjkl. Yet we call them vim keys for some reason? It's weird...)
I could be wrong, but the guy who originally started producing the Vim caps calls them that: https://vimcaps.com/.
Ever since, they've been called Vim key/caps.
Also, why would Vim users use standard arrow keys? I thought Vim was just Vi improved--no more, no less.
I've never paid much attention to vim because I prefer emacs/nano/ped, but I thought the whole point of vi/m was to reduce the number of keystrokes and movement of your hands?
I just made my GF and 2 others sign up for MD just to vote on this. Encouraging everyone to do the same. All the chatter does nothing if it can't get up-and-mounted. Lets do this!
Is this the next set that's dropping after canvas or will there be another GMK set inbetween? Since serika, we've had pulse and canvas inbetween so should be a GMK set next.
Is this the next set that's dropping after canvas or will there be another GMK set inbetween? Since serika, we've had pulse and canvas inbetween so should be a GMK set next.
SA Green Screen is launching in July, but according to the current schedule, Space Cadet will be the next in line for GMK sets.
SA Green Screen is launching in July, but according to the current schedule, Space Cadet will be the next in line for GMK sets.
SA Green Screen is launching in July, but according to the current schedule, Space Cadet will be the next in line for GMK sets.
Interesting, since SA Green Screen's poll only has 1315 votes at the moment.
SA Green Screen is launching in July, but according to the current schedule, Space Cadet will be the next in line for GMK sets.
Interesting, since SA Green Screen's poll only has 1315 votes at the moment.
MD's keyset queue doesn't solely rely on vote counts. For once, Green Screen was never really advertised outside of GeekHack, so having gotten to 1300 by just GH and the poll existing is impressive already, but primarily MD rotates through the profiles. You rarely see a back to back GMK drop for example. With GMK Serika having closed last month, it makes more sense to have XDA now and then some SA before returning to GMK.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FZ2FwOO.jpg)
Fixed APL legend of X key, I mistakenly rotated it instead of mirroring.
Sent color samples to GMK today, we'll be starting the matching process ASAP to avoid delays as much as possible.
Colors are:
Blue - Matched to R6 (SP-BFP)
Grey - Matched to R6, even though R6 used SP-GD just like SA Oblivion, which I had matched for the GMK version, the resin batch used for R6 is slightly colder which I would like to keep to better pair with the blue mods
Black Legends - GMK-NN from standard colors
Cream Legends - Either just cutting open a R6 grabbag key to match (again, old SP-WV is different to current SP-WV, so ordering a colorchip from SP is possibly useless) or a blend of GMK-CP (standard color) and GMK-WS4 (one of the cream colors created for GMK Camping) since CP by itself is a nice off-white, but missing a touch of warmth.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FZ2FwOO.jpg)
Fixed APL legend of X key, I mistakenly rotated it instead of mirroring.
Sent color samples to GMK today, we'll be starting the matching process ASAP to avoid delays as much as possible.
Colors are:
Blue - Matched to R6 (SP-BFP)
Grey - Matched to R6, even though R6 used SP-GD just like SA Oblivion, which I had matched for the GMK version, the resin batch used for R6 is slightly colder which I would like to keep to better pair with the blue mods
Black Legends - GMK-NN from standard colors
Cream Legends - Either just cutting open a R6 grabbag key to match (again, old SP-WV is different to current SP-WV, so ordering a colorchip from SP is possibly useless) or a blend of GMK-CP (standard color) and GMK-WS4 (one of the cream colors created for GMK Camping) since CP by itself is a nice off-white, but missing a touch of warmth.
But what about red cadet?
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With the legends going a custom color, do you think the color would be close enough to CP to mix with oblivion mods?
With the legends going a custom color, do you think the color would be close enough to CP to mix with oblivion mods?
TBD. Oblivion Mod legends are L9 btw, CP was only for the white alphas.
Maybe asked already, but would it be possible to buy -just- the grey alpha’s? :P kinda would like to pair those with Honeywell mods
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Is profile for this / second round fixed at 1-1-2-3-4-4 or 0-1-2-3-4-5 might be a possibility?
I hope that people really enjoy R0/5, so that MOQ on hitting a fix kit for this would be possible ;)
I hope that people really enjoy R0/5, so that MOQ on hitting a fix kit for this would be possible ;)Add me to the "Definitely Want" list.
R5 is love.
R5 is love.
In a world where most of the users are flipping the spacebars, I don't understand what can you find in a profile that's simply and clearly trying to hurt you.
cause it wont be till mid to end of 2019 realistically
But what about red cadet 🤞
But what about red cadet 🤞
But what about red cadet 🤞
Crimson Cadet. 2019. Now shut up :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/U5SAdbP.jpg)
Would "Escape" be too cramped on the Esc key?
But what about red cadet 🤞
Crimson Cadet. 2019. Now shut up :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/U5SAdbP.jpg)
Would be awesome to have the grey alphas as an extra kit on "crimson cadet", would save quiet a bit for those that will get space cadet.But what about red cadet 🤞
Crimson Cadet. 2019. Now shut up :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/U5SAdbP.jpg)
Dang. I hadn’t even considered the grey alphas with the red. I’m gonna spend too much again.
Would it in any way be possible for:
Blue alphas + Blue mods being one base kit option.
Red alphas + Red mods being a second base kit option in the same drop.
And an extra add-on kit for GRAY alphas, for whoever wants it.
I know it flips the base kits, and although I have no idea how GMK production goes, I feel like it would be possible to have more than one base kit as one drop? Treating it as two separate.
Your reasoning for spreading out the dates might just be to keep the # of kits down since it might get crazy, but all we need is one mold to be made, right?
But ofc, the deal might already be set with Massdrop for the space cadet drop, and whatever happens, I'll wait out til 2019 (;
Good luck w everything
Crimson Cadet will not have as many child kits, but instead be accompanied by a third colorway.Verde Cadet? 💧🔥🍃
I don't want to do any other colorway while running the standard one, since we are already at 9 kits (to be posted later today). As amnesia pointed out, not everyone can afford to shell out 300+$ to get multiple base color options.
Crimson Cadet will not have as many child kits, but instead be accompanied by a third colorway.
You may consider asking for R4C 2.75u and 2.25u spacebars. I am pretty sure that demand for SC may justify the new molds. Yet, the upcoming carbon kit in its second round will include them. That makes two large quantity batches that may support the new molds.
You may consider asking for R4C 2.75u and 2.25u spacebars. I am pretty sure that demand for SC may justify the new molds. Yet, the upcoming carbon kit in its second round will include them. That makes two large quantity batches that may support the new molds.
I will check with CK if those will be available in time, but no guarantees.
But what about red cadet 🤞
Crimson Cadet. 2019. Now shut up :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/U5SAdbP.jpg)
But what about red cadet 🤞
Crimson Cadet. 2019. Now shut up :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/U5SAdbP.jpg)
10/10 nose bleedBut what about red cadet 🤞
Crimson Cadet. 2019. Now shut up :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/U5SAdbP.jpg)
10/10 nut
Where is the 1u R4 "code" keycap in the True Cadet kit?The code key you mentioned is in the base set in row3. The core idea of True Cadet is to give lower mods (last two rows which both are row 4) black legends like it was done in original space cadet. So the code key is not required in True Cadet.
The 30% massdrop import tax, the wrong un-vim arrows make probably impossible for me to join this. But maybe a kit, I could buy that. What's the pricing.you basically want the symbiosis ghjkl keys then I guess?
Please include a grey F1-F4 and F9-F12 kit for your fans who want to use Oblivion modifiers. Otherwise good set, but this is killing me. :thumb:
Even better: put the blue F1-F4 and F9-F12 in the True Cadet kit and put the grey F1-F4 and F9-F12 in the base kit. That seems to go more in line with the purpose of True Cadet, which is to differentiate the vintage homage from the modern layout. This would allow buyers to get that real vintage look with the blue spacebars and blue top row while also making the base more standard and flexible for TKL / fullsize / 1800 / 96key fans of your sets while also keeping it affordable.
I currently have no intentions of making the function row sandwich-style, sorry.
I currently have no intentions of making the function row sandwich-style, sorry.
Oh, no need to apologize to me. I have no intention of buying a set with a top row that would crank my OCD to 11. I think it is going to be a success anyways, I'll just have to wait for the next round. Unless someone is aware of another set that uses the same color codes?
What layout do you use where you feel anything other than sandwich style looks wrong?
What layout do you use where you feel anything other than sandwich style looks wrong?
I only use TKL layouts on all of my keyboards. A solid top row looks really, really weird and off-putting, especially for folks who are fans of Tsangan layout who want that OG vintage feel or WKL feel.
Now, one solid color for the whole keyboard looks great, which is why I like the all-blue option in this set.. but as soon as you differentiate the mod color from the alpha color you need that critical differentiation in the F-row or else .. you are calling the F-row a modifier row which doesn't really make sense. Although you could argue by this logic the F-row should be entirely alpha colored but that just doesn't look right either when viewed through the lens of over 30 years of keyboard layout history.
I'm not a 96 key user but if I was I would think that this would be even more critical because the F-row and the top row of alphas line up in a grid. Maybe it actual looks nicer on a 96 key layout this way because of color differentiation, but on a TKL it is kinda gross, not because it is a bad idea but because it ab-normal. Once you see it you can't unsee it. It killed GMK Taro for me and I absolutely freakin loved those colors.
What layout do you use where you feel anything other than sandwich style looks wrong?
I only use TKL layouts on all of my keyboards. A solid top row looks really, really weird and off-putting, especially for folks who are fans of Tsangan layout who want that OG vintage feel or WKL feel.
Now, one solid color for the whole keyboard looks great, which is why I like the all-blue option in this set.. but as soon as you differentiate the mod color from the alpha color you need that critical differentiation in the F-row or else .. you are calling the F-row a modifier row which doesn't really make sense. Although you could argue by this logic the F-row should be entirely alpha colored but that just doesn't look right either when viewed through the lens of over 30 years of keyboard layout history.
I'm not a 96 key user but if I was I would think that this would be even more critical because the F-row and the top row of alphas line up in a grid. Maybe it actual looks nicer on a 96 key layout this way because of color differentiation, but on a TKL it is kinda gross, not because it is a bad idea but because it ab-normal. Once you see it you can't unsee it. It killed GMK Taro for me and I absolutely freakin loved those colors.
For me it was the other way around, once I saw the beauty of a uni-colored function row, the mixed ones look gross to me. I can accept it on something like 9009 where the colors are much closer and also have the 'OG factor', but for example Honeywell and Space Cadet, I don't like a mixed one at all. Also in terms of design rules, I agree that it makes most sense to have keys of the same 'group' have the same color. But I disagree that function row belongs with alphas, because alpha keys produce characters, which the function keys do not.
96key and 75% is a bit tricky indeed. Personally I prefer an entirely alpha colored function row on those layouts as well, but I don't want to add 12 keys (a solid 10$ in base kit price) to support that.
Where is the 1u R4 "code" keycap in the True Cadet kit?The code key you mentioned is in the base set in row3. The core idea of True Cadet is to give lower mods (last two rows which both are row 4) black legends like it was done in original space cadet. So the code key is not required in True Cadet.
Where is the 1u R4 "code" keycap in the True Cadet kit?The code key you mentioned is in the base set in row3. The core idea of True Cadet is to give lower mods (last two rows which both are row 4) black legends like it was done in original space cadet. So the code key is not required in True Cadet.
Where is the 1u R4 "code" keycap in the True Cadet kit?The code key you mentioned is in the base set in row3. The core idea of True Cadet is to give lower mods (last two rows which both are row 4) black legends like it was done in original space cadet. So the code key is not required in True Cadet.Where is the 1u R4 "code" keycap in the True Cadet kit?The code key you mentioned is in the base set in row3. The core idea of True Cadet is to give lower mods (last two rows which both are row 4) black legends like it was done in original space cadet. So the code key is not required in True Cadet.
What I meant is that it's good to have R4 1u "FN" keycap to go with the R4 1.75u right "SHIFT" in the True Cadet kit. Anyway, it's awesome. I'm definitely in and spending a lot of money :)
I think it is specious to call upon IBM's history to justify any aesthetic decisions since the original Space Cadet keyboard--the only keyboard whose history has any real relevance here--did not have F-keys at all. It did, however, have a top row of keys with special functions, but they were all 2u in size and blue in color.
I'm not saying that Oblotsky shouldn't do it. I'm asking for him to give his customers the CHOICE. Grant us the freedom to decide for ourselves personally how we want it to look. It is a small thing but it deters my ability to enjoy the set because of what.. 8 keys? I'd happily drop $50 on a kit to get the extra F keys.
Oblotzky himself acknowldges this when he put alpha-colored spacebars in the base kit and only put blue spacebars in the True Cadet kit. If adhering to the modern standard applies to spacebars why not the F row?
Also in terms of design rules, I agree that it makes most sense to have keys of the same 'group' have the same color. But I disagree that function row belongs with alphas, because alpha keys produce characters, which the function keys do not.- Spacebar is an alpha key.
Well obviously this would be something worth dropping extra money on to you, but I have to weigh in the other 1k participants that will have to pay for an increase in cost.
There would be no extra cost to the 1k participants if the F-row was more standard in the base kit. If the F-row was in its own kit there would only be extra cost for the people that bought it if it met MOQ.
What makes you think spacebar is an alpha key? Convention? History? Standards? It is the same argument I'm making.
The fact that when I hit the button, an ASCII character is created.
The fact that when I hit the button, an ASCII character is created.
That has nothing to do with the keyboard layout or colors. The keyboard only produces scan-codes. In most cases, ASCII characters are not created anymore. Windows typically creates Unicode, UTF-8, or UTF-16 characters depending on the application. How scan codes map to characters is dependent on the localization and operating system. Philosophically, a spacebar is nothing like an alphanumeric character. In fact, it could be called the opposite - a lack of alphanumeric character, or an empty space. The shift modifier effects alphanumeric keys but it does nothing when I type 'shift-space.'
Well, I consider this set somewhat confused about its purpose, precisely because it is trying to please so many masters.
He can't make everyone happy, but if there is a chance to provide an optional kit that could make more people happy but not at the expense of the rest of the groupbuy, then why not? What is the harm?
We have 9 kits already, which is quite a bit for a GMK buy. If this was an SA buy, I'd be offering a F1-F12 in gray kit as it would only be 9.99$ with MOQ 25, but I feel very uncomfortable doing this on a GMK buy where MOQ's start at 100.
We have 9 kits already, which is quite a bit for a GMK buy. If this was an SA buy, I'd be offering a F1-F12 in gray kit as it would only be 9.99$ with MOQ 25, but I feel very uncomfortable doing this on a GMK buy where MOQ's start at 100.
That is a very fair point. My question then is how much would the price of True Cadet increase if 8 blue keys were added? (or even Blue Alphas which might even be a better place for them).
What are the GMK color codes used for this set? Are they all custom pantones?
Both kits already cost enough as they are.
halfway point between GMK's CP and SP's WCK.
halfway point between GMK's CP and SP's WCK.
GMK 3K?
...If this was an SA buy, I'd be offering a F1-F12 in gray kit as it would only be 9.99$ with MOQ 25...
Tab is more of a cursor control character, causing the cursor to position itself at pre-determined positions which are typically configurable per application/document, much in the same way that Return is purely a cursor positioning character, moving the cursor to a position driven by text layout rules.
However, it is not uncommon for keys to be colored according to aesthetic rules unattached to key function or category. Look at all the keyboards that people have where they use "modifier colored" ~` and |\ keys so as to surround the central alpha block in the other color.
I have been curious, not specifically with this set but in general, why the Tab is often/usually colored as a mod. It clearly isn't a mod and stylistically it seems it would look better if it matched the backslash, which definitely is an alpha.
... Aesthetic taste changed over time...
To me, unicolor function row looks wrong, even though I understand the Space Cadet lineage and unicolor makes more logical sense...
Of course, that definition [of "modifier"] goes out the window with the numpad since keys like /, *, -, and + all produce printable characters but are colored as "mods", go figure...
I'm not sure how the first line explains why the tab key is normally colored with the mods, which generally aren't cursor control keys.I have been curious, not specifically with this set but in general, why the Tab is often/usually colored as a mod. It clearly isn't a mod and stylistically it seems it would look better if it matched the backslash, which definitely is an alpha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_key
Read the first line. Its definitely not a character tho it has its special charachter for text formats. It is an control (in term of moving text cursor or changing focus in user controls) key. Otherwise the enter/return is an charachter too since it has its special charachter "\r" or "\r\n".
Problem solved, no more blueShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/IDJRv9N.jpg)
Problem solved, no more blueShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/IDJRv9N.jpg)
Oh, that's almost perfect! If you'd just reverse the colors on the alpha keycaps (you know which ones I mean), this would be my endgame set! /s
I'd classify keys like this:
alphas = need no explanation but I would include spacebar since it's still a regular character
mods = keys that do nothing on their own and only modify other keys; shift, ctrl, alt, super
others = esc, tab, return, function keys, arrows, backspace/delete, home/end, page up/down
If you only have two "main" colors then you'd need to combine those three into two and it makes the most sense to color the mods and others the same.
Problem solved, no more blueShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/IDJRv9N.jpg)
Oh, that's almost perfect! If you'd just reverse the colors on the alpha keycaps (you know which ones I mean), this would be my endgame set! /s
like this?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bbpg9lu.jpg)
Problem solved, no more blueShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/IDJRv9N.jpg)
Oh, that's almost perfect! If you'd just reverse the colors on the alpha keycaps (you know which ones I mean), this would be my endgame set! /s
like this?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bbpg9lu.jpg)
Can you make it so that both the caps and legends are the same color blue?
Who else is in for space cadet monolegends? :thumb:APL-only? Yeah!
Show Image(https://i.redd.it/w108mhyfama11.jpg)
My cadet is ready and waiting
Looking good. Am I not seeing Minivan support in the 40s kit?
Looking good. Am I not seeing Minivan support in the 40s kit?
Correct, the 40s kit is currently considered final.
Is there a reason why? I’m starting to notice a trend of lack of support.
What case colors would you say could fit well beside gray? Would like to see some renders with non gray cases.
QuoteIs there a reason why? I’m starting to notice a trend of lack of support.
Same question! I've been following this thread and carbon closely, and it seems odd.
QuoteIs there a reason why? I’m starting to notice a trend of lack of support.
Same question! I've been following this thread and carbon closely, and it seems odd.
It’s deliberate. See the Carbon thread.
QuoteIs there a reason why? I’m starting to notice a trend of lack of support.
Same question! I've been following this thread and carbon closely, and it seems odd.
It’s deliberate. See the Carbon thread.
Stirring it up isn't helping anyone. Let them handle it behind the scenes, and realize that they don't have to support it, nor are they beholden to tell why. If you choose a custom layout, then supporting it is going to be at the whims of the keyset designers. It's a sad, unfortunate, truth.
Problem solved, no more blue
Problem solved, no more blueShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/IDJRv9N.jpg)
Oh, that's almost perfect! If you'd just reverse the colors on the alpha keycaps (you know which ones I mean), this would be my endgame set! /s
like this?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bbpg9lu.jpg)
Oh, that's almost perfect! If you'd just reverse the colors on the alpha keycaps (you know which ones I mean), this would be my endgame set! /s
like this?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bbpg9lu.jpg)
Oh, I wasn't referring to Oblotzky (and his GB) when I said "If you're going to get rid of the blue keys". I was referring to everyone who fancies building out a board without any blue keys on it.
[/quote
I was just saying that for a joke... I really like them.
I just received the pricing sheet for the new version of the kits, and it looks good to me! the Assembly (Ergodox) and 40bit (Planck and 40%) are much more affordable now compared to the previous combined version. I am crossing my fingers that we can hit 100 on both of those.
Just over a week left for the drop to launch now!
I just received the pricing sheet for the new version of the kits, and it looks good to me! the Assembly (Ergodox) and 40bit (Planck and 40%) are much more affordable now compared to the previous combined version. I am crossing my fingers that we can hit 100 on both of those.
Just over a week left for the drop to launch now!
Will 40% cover the Minivan?
I just received the pricing sheet for the new version of the kits, and it looks good to me! the Assembly (Ergodox) and 40bit (Planck and 40%) are much more affordable now compared to the previous combined version. I am crossing my fingers that we can hit 100 on both of those.
Just over a week left for the drop to launch now!
Launch date is set, will probably announce during the weekend.
Also I'll be sending this kit to Christoph on Monday for pricing, but I have ZERO hopes of it being offered. I just feel like I should at least give it a shot and get priced out, but with 41 new legend plates, that's about 61.5EUR in tooling alone, so this would translate to like 129$ or something insane like that for the kit.
Edit: first Y key has wrong sublegend, I'll fix and doublecheck everything tomorrow, too sleepy now.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/9nKHaNb.jpg)
The image I posted has Colemak on the left and Dvorak on the right.
Splitting that into two makes the chances of either hitting 100 units even less likely than it already would be. I don't think the price drop on each for not carrying the other with it would change that much.
The 40bit kit is missing the |\ key. In either R1 or R4, or both.
The 40bit kit is missing the |\ key. In either R1 or R4, or both.
I don't see it used in any default layout of Preonic or 40% keebs, mind showing me which one it would be for?
The 40bit kit is missing the |\ key. In either R1 or R4, or both.
I don't see it used in any default layout of Preonic or 40% keebs, mind showing me which one it would be for?
It is a fifty keeb. This is my own interpretation, of course. Just thinking that one key could make the set more flexible. I understand that it may be a sort of unique interpretation.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GrRTLLm.png)
The 40bit kit is missing the |\ key. In either R1 or R4, or both.
I don't see it used in any default layout of Preonic or 40% keebs, mind showing me which one it would be for?
It is a fifty keeb. This is my own interpretation, of course. Just thinking that one key could make the set more flexible. I understand that it may be a sort of unique interpretation.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GrRTLLm.png)
Yeah I'm afraid that this is too unique. The kits are locked except for errors in standard layout coverage.
Render needs blue spacebar. It's okay though, it's a common mistake. :p
We did, and the renders still end up wrong. :confused: :))Wont have to wait on a render if you buy the drop in a august and then wait several months. Or check the front page
Render needs blue spacebar. It's okay though, it's a common mistake. :p
Soon ;)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WAzgbLV.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/geXECEn.jpg)
Yeah, black legends on the bottom two rows of modifiers would look great (and correct), but as I look at that render I now realize the aesthetic compromises that a 60% keyboard imposes on this keycap set makes things like blue spacebars and black legends rather moot. Without an F-row to properly "wrap" the gray alphas, I agree that a gray spacebar probably looks better. I am willing to concede that point, while also taking the position that anything called Space Cadet doesn't belong on any keyboard so small that it doesn't have an F-row... :confused:
Yeah, black legends on the bottom two rows of modifiers would look great (and correct), but as I look at that render I now realize the aesthetic compromises that a 60% keyboard imposes on this keycap set makes things like blue spacebars and black legends rather moot. Without an F-row to properly "wrap" the gray alphas, I agree that a gray spacebar probably looks better. I am willing to concede that point, while also taking the position that anything called Space Cadet doesn't belong on any keyboard so small that it doesn't have an F-row... :confused:
Soon ;)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WAzgbLV.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/geXECEn.jpg)
Can your render this same keyset on the Silver M60? I need to know if I should start asking around for a colorswap :)
Soon ;)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WAzgbLV.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/geXECEn.jpg)
Can your render this same keyset on the Silver M60? I need to know if I should start asking around for a colorswap :)
Ask and you shall receiveShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/wosYhQx.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/N9jajlN.jpg)
when it goes to GB,and where ;D
We go live on Friday, an E-Mail should go out later today.Wooooooooo my first and probably only GMK set so stoked
Please note that Colevrak is being considered, but not yet guaranteed. CK is trying to work out favorable pricing for both sides.
Just got tracking from GMK for color samples.
Just got tracking from GMK for color samples.
launching soon?
You guys better be ready to keep your promises
launching soon?
Friday
I might be interested on this set.
Question: on some renders it looks like the alpha legend color is sort of yellowish while the legends on the mods and blue alphas look more like white (cp). Is this correct?
Also, because it has an influence on what i‘ll buy in the space cadet run, will red cadet be all red in the base set or will it be grey/red like space cadet is grey/blue?
The intention of the question was more or less, will i end up with two grey alpha sets laying around collecting dust, so i'm pretty relieved after this answer :)Question: on some renders it looks like the alpha legend color is sort of yellowish while the legends on the mods and blue alphas look more like white (cp). Is this correct?
Also, because it has an influence on what i‘ll buy in the space cadet run, will red cadet be all red in the base set or will it be grey/red like space cadet is grey/blue?
#1 illusion, the color of the legends is identical on all keys in my legend files.
#2 I am hesitant to answer because I truly do not know at this point. if crimson cadet is offered, there MIGHT be a separate gray alphas kit availabe. but it MIGHT also not be. I don't even know how well this version will perform, so to say what kits I want to offer with an even yet unknown vendor is really a shot in the dark.
i assume it's white then?! :rolleyes: