Author Topic: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop  (Read 22745 times)

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Offline creactive

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  • Posts: 8
【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 02:47:37 »
hi buddies, I come here to open a IC for SP SA raindrop on behalf of Toxic in China. He has designed and organized lots GBs of SP in Chinese forums.
He introduces 3 kits.











Do you have interest in these kits and any suggestions?
Thank you

Offline maximm

  • Posts: 165
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 03:05:27 »
Looks great, do it!

Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 03:06:50 »
I think the key distribution is a bit weird

the keys in red should be in kit2, I think.

169081-0

extra left Shift is 2u, right?
with other keys in kit2, they're for Filco Minila, I presume.

I don't think I have any problem with [1.75u Shift + 1u Fn] in kit1, right now I'm using a board with split right Shift (1.75+1) and normal Backspace (2u)

but 2u Shift and other 1u keys there is weird...

Offline TeHao

  • Posts: 96
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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 03:29:13 »
Looks great.   GO GO

Offline creactive

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 03:56:31 »
I think the key distribution is a bit weird

the keys in red should be in kit2, I think.

(Attachment Link)

extra left Shift is 2u, right?
with other keys in kit2, they're for Filco Minila, I presume.

I don't think I have any problem with [1.75u Shift + 1u Fn] in kit1, right now I'm using a board with split right Shift (1.75+1) and normal Backspace (2u)

but 2u Shift and other 1u keys there is weird...

yeah, it is very kind that you scrutinize carefully. yes, I agree with you . 2 u shift has less usage than other keys in Kit 1. I will tell Mr Toxic to revise that.

Offline gimli123262

  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Scotland
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 04:07:50 »
Looks good, although the top legend for 4 in kit 3 is incorrect. UK layout has $ as the top legend and € would be under alt graph.

Offline endjinn

  • Posts: 2
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 10:26:38 »
Would be nice to have a CONTROL key in kit 1 for replacing the CAPS LOCK.

I like the set, though.

Offline William_S_Jones

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 10:37:37 »
Interested; however, what is the estimated ETA?

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Offline Jaymanlp

  • Posts: 33
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 17:21:14 »
Looks great. I've been wanting a nice blue and white set.

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Offline NoChance

  • Posts: 38
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 25 May 2017, 11:50:23 »
Are barred F&J included?

Offline Harms

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 28 May 2017, 23:30:07 »
This set looks awesome :).

Offline Hamel

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 30 May 2017, 01:05:01 »
Def going in for this if it goes live.





Offline lovetree

  • Posts: 151
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 22:59:58 »
love this keyset!  :eek:

Offline akikun

  • Posts: 21
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 00:16:31 »
Hi,

I've been a bit out of the loop here, but started lurking again and stumbled into this. I'm interested in buying one, for sure!

Offline Arallu

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 08:11:04 »

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 12:55:00 »
I am just curious if you guys have the permission to run RainDrop from original Designer "aggiejy"?

Here is the link to previous "original" GB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40520.0

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 13:18:12 »
Also on "zfrontier" site its said that RainDrop is designed by "Toxic" (who ever he is) and that RainDrop is zfrontier exclusive. How comes?

Offline limitz

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 14:00:18 »
Also on "zfrontier" site its said that RainDrop is designed by "Toxic" (who ever he is) and that RainDrop is zfrontier exclusive. How comes?

This is upsetting.

The novelties look extremely similar to the original Raindrop. As if that's not enough, they even try to claim they designed it.

BS... will not be giving a penny to this buy.
Mmm... machined aluminum

Offline aggiejy

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 17:09:03 »
Yes, I came up with Raindrop (http://aggiejy.com/raindrop/), so it's not right to call it your exclusive or original. Also the icons you use are ones I designed and paid for moulds... I will be very disappointed if SP offers them to you without asking me.

I have not problems with people doing similar sets, but don't understand why you have to call them the same thing, and use the same designs. Do something more original!

xoxoxo

Offline Vigrith

  • Posts: 1843
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 18:21:56 »
>literally use the exact same set someone else designed
>pretend you designed it
>call it exclusive
>sell it for like 200 bucks
>lol

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 20:20:49 »
>literally use the exact same set someone else designed
>pretend you designed it
>call it exclusive
>sell it for like 200 bucks
>lol


....and this is literally the last time I will every pay attention to any zFrontier buy. :thumb: :rolleyes:

Like aggiejy said, its one thing to make a "heavily inspired by" set and a completely different thing to make claims that you have permission/designed it/have exclusive rights to it/etc.
<- My Collection (so far)

Offline a_ak57

  • Posts: 499
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 20:47:50 »
I know SP has waffled on whether to re-run colorways without consulting the original designer, but I thought they were pretty steadfast about not reusing novelties someone had designed?

Offline xantiema

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:21:34 »
Boycot is real ^-^

Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:22:31 »
Boycot is real ^-^

Yeah cause stealing someone else's work is ****ty and we as a community need to not allow it to happen

Offline MassdropYanbo

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:39:25 »
I know SP has waffled on whether to re-run colorways without consulting the original designer, but I thought they were pretty steadfast about not reusing novelties someone had designed?

I can assure you that policy hasn't changed at Signature Plastics.

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:43:23 »
I know SP has waffled on whether to re-run colorways without consulting the original designer, but I thought they were pretty steadfast about not reusing novelties someone had designed?

Yes, they are. As is GMK.
<- My Collection (so far)

Offline breusch91

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:44:22 »
This is upsetting. I dont even know how zfrontier is actually running a GB for this with the current novelties considering SP has said they wont copy novelties. Anywho don't like this move by zfrontier and won't be funding any of their GBs if this continues.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 21:57:39 »
can you negative buy a set?

i wasn't gonna buy this in the first place but now i wanna especially not buy it
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Vigrith

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 22:02:45 »
....and this is literally the last time I will every pay attention to any zFrontier buy. :thumb: :rolleyes:

Like aggiejy said, its one thing to make a "heavily inspired by" set and a completely different thing to make claims that you have permission/designed it/have exclusive rights to it/etc.

As per my profession I feel there's almost always potential for things to be lost in translation, as I understand it most/everyone associated with this and zFrontier are Chinese however, I also think you'd almost have to be in a different universe altogether to be able to apply this sort of "logic" to words like "design" and "exclusive". It's so hard to make an argument for being able to chalk this up to a misunderstanding or anything of that sort, sadly.

If this does continue, as I refuse to believe this will not be brought up to their attention (especially zFrontier's as a business) as soon as possible, I'll also not be bothering with them at all.

Offline ricyuyc

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 22:20:19 »
That why it is nightmare to make deal or do business in China, some of them are shameless to copy your design/product and sell it with claiming that are original from their company.
As you may knew, Taobao is sea of cloned goods, some sellers even declare that other one who want to reproduce "their products", have to obtain their authority.
171390-0
171392-1
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 June 2017, 22:23:48 by ricyuyc »

Offline ricyuyc

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 22:32:12 »
Yes, I came up with Raindrop (http://aggiejy.com/raindrop/), so it's not right to call it your exclusive or original. Also the icons you use are ones I designed and paid for moulds... I will be very disappointed if SP offers them to you without asking me.

I have not problems with people doing similar sets, but don't understand why you have to call them the same thing, and use the same designs. Do something more original!

xoxoxo
There is another JT Raindrop group buy by OCO, they do have Novelty Keys but have not shown at their renders. I presume Sherry have got your endorsement if your design are being used.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 22 June 2017, 22:46:13 »
Yes, I came up with Raindrop (http://aggiejy.com/raindrop/), so it's not right to call it your exclusive or original. Also the icons you use are ones I designed and paid for moulds... I will be very disappointed if SP offers them to you without asking me.

I have not problems with people doing similar sets, but don't understand why you have to call them the same thing, and use the same designs. Do something more original!

xoxoxo
There is another JT Raindrop group buy by OCO, they do have Novelty Keys but have not shown at their renders. I presume Sherry have got your endorsement if your design are being used.

afaik that one is CTRL ALT, who got permission from aggie years ago

and if it's not, i like to think sherry isn't dumb enough to use someone else's novelties without asking first
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Niomosy

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 00:12:31 »
I am just curious if you guys have the permission to run RainDrop from original Designer "aggiejy"?

Here is the link to previous "original" GB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40520.0

Such a request would be polite.  That said, it is a courtesy request.  Much like Weird Al can still parody a song, a colorway can be used with or without permission.  That said, going the route of courtesy first is preferred.

Also on "zfrontier" site its said that RainDrop is designed by "Toxic" (who ever he is) and that RainDrop is zfrontier exclusive. How comes?

This is the more pertinent bit of information.  It's one thing to copy another set but if you're going to do that, simply own it and go with it.  If you're going to be a copycat, at least be an honest one.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 June 2017, 00:27:36 by Niomosy »

Offline climbalima

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 00:53:52 »
remember a few months ago on reddit where we crucified the person for copying the raindrop colorway exactly, but made their own novelties?

Offline Puddsy

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 01:19:37 »
remember a few months ago on reddit where we crucified the person for copying the raindrop colorway exactly, but made their own novelties?

raindrop is a set that people get defensive over because it was the one of the first really successful GBs, along with CCnG and RA
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Oblotzky

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 02:25:56 »
<speculation>

Lets throw some more gas on the fire shall we

https://thenounproject.com/term/storm/612488/ - filled in white inner part
https://thenounproject.com/term/umbrella/718345/ - added shine line
https://thenounproject.com/term/cloud/960832/ - added the two lower circles and shine line
https://thenounproject.com/term/rainbow/1095173/ - granted, its just 4 half circles, but still

will appropriate licenses be purchased to distribute copies/modifications of these icons?

</speculation>
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 June 2017, 02:28:41 by Oblotzky »

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 02:50:25 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 June 2017, 02:56:11 by Niomosy »

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 03:04:20 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Offline Oblotzky

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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 03:05:17 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

Pretty sure Nike would come after you if you added a shine line to their icon and then used it commercially ;)

Anyhow, nounproject licenses are very much affordable, just 2 bucks to distribute 100 copies. I think licensing would be appropriate here.

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 03:12:17 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

Pretty sure Nike would come after you if you added a shine line to their icon and then used it commercially ;)

Anyhow, nounproject licenses are very much affordable, just 2 bucks to distribute 100 copies. I think licensing would be appropriate here.

Depends on how you do things with Nike.  There's still a lot of limits on them about that and how others can use it.  Parody an obvious choice.

Licensing is a possibility but why license if you can just have someone do it themselves with the appropriate software?  Then you skip copying altogether.

Offline Oblotzky

  • Posts: 2049
  • Location: Cologne, Germany
  • Backspace is for people that make mistakes.
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 03:14:15 »
Licensing is a possibility but why license if you can just have someone do it themselves with the appropriate software?  Then you skip copying altogether.

Absolutely, but apparently Toxic didn't.

Offline creactive

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 05:14:46 »
Sincere apologies for the misunderstanding. I was not aware of any IP issue during the IC process, and an official price quotation from SP was provided. So I presumptuously assumed that the authorization of the design was provided, and moved directly onto the group buy.

I was therefore shocked to see the recent discussion. If I had known about this, I would not have started the GB. I have notified zFrontier regarding the issue immediately, and saw that the GB has been taken off.

Also, I noticed that there was a previous GB of Raindrop in DSA Profile in 2015, which was fulfilled by SP. (http://www.waishechina.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=895&extra=page%3D1)








This fulfilled GB partly misled me into thinking that there would be no problem with the authorization of this design. Again, apologies for the misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 June 2017, 05:17:55 by creactive »

Offline livingspeedbump

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1552
  • Location: Seattle
  • Gentlemen, a bobsled is a simple thing.
    • KeyChatter
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 09:33:33 »
You can't talk or apologize your way out of this one for me.

For SP to even do a set, they require proof that the original designer had given permission. With the buy having gone live, that means claims to SP were made that the original designer gave permission, which clearly wasn't the case.

The whole thing was incredibly shady, comically so. Still never going back to zFrontier  :thumb:
<- My Collection (so far)

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 13:12:29 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Let me state first, my pitchfork is out for this set but not because it's a copy.  That said, let's jump into your comments and talk about my thoughts on copying then we'll get back to my particular pitchfork.

Colorway copying is legal.  Novelty copying (icons, basically) is legal - hence all the icon options you have out there.  Beyond that, keyboards are similarly not covered by nature of being a useful article.  Under the useful article clause, the useful article isn't protected, only those artistic elements that can be removed from the useful article itself may be protected.  Even then, the useful article remains unprotected.  Hence why we've had similar colorway after colorway outside the enthusiast community without issue; companies knew the legalities and simply go about their business.  The thing I find baffling within the community is that copying seems perfectly fine under certain circumstances.  Copy a classic colorway?  Great.  Custom colors to match the original?  Even better.  Copy all the various specialized caps the original set had ?  Fantastic.  Don't have access or permission to the old molds?  No worries, get new ones made!  Now try that same thing with a modern set and people suddenly get upset.

As for my pitchfork, it's out not because it's a copy but because of the claims of originality.  It's clearly not the case.

Offline lecorsair

  • Posts: 214
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 13:28:08 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Not doubting the veracity of this claim. But as a curious observer and possible point of reference for GB leads/makers, can you link or point to where one would find this specific information? This really need to hashed out and pinned somewhere because I do believe many people don't understand this.

Offline Oblotzky

  • Posts: 2049
  • Location: Cologne, Germany
  • Backspace is for people that make mistakes.
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 13:31:42 »
Novelty copying (icons, basically) is legal

Did you mean to say "creating icons inspired by existing ones" or actually mean straight copying?

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 13:51:18 »
Novelty copying (icons, basically) is legal

Did you mean to say "creating icons inspired by existing ones" or actually mean straight copying?

In the case of vendor-held molds, it would be a recreation if we're assuming permission to use the original molds was not granted. 

Offline T0mb3ry

  • Posts: 1820
  • Location: Germany
  • https://www.instagram.com/t0mb3ry_gh/
    • Flickr
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 13:57:57 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Let me state first, my pitchfork is out for this set but not because it's a copy.  That said, let's jump into your comments and talk about my thoughts on copying then we'll get back to my particular pitchfork.

Colorway copying is legal.  Novelty copying (icons, basically) is legal - hence all the icon options you have out there.  Beyond that, keyboards are similarly not covered by nature of being a useful article.  Under the useful article clause, the useful article isn't protected, only those artistic elements that can be removed from the useful article itself may be protected.  Even then, the useful article remains unprotected.  Hence why we've had similar colorway after colorway outside the enthusiast community without issue; companies knew the legalities and simply go about their business.  The thing I find baffling within the community is that copying seems perfectly fine under certain circumstances.  Copy a classic colorway?  Great.  Custom colors to match the original?  Even better.  Copy all the various specialized caps the original set had ?  Fantastic.  Don't have access or permission to the old molds?  No worries, get new ones made!  Now try that same thing with a modern set and people suddenly get upset.

As for my pitchfork, it's out not because it's a copy but because of the claims of originality.  It's clearly not the case.
An keyset is on itself not a usefull article because its a part of a keyboard, which you can also remove. As such RainDrop is a rain themed set and it has its artificial expressions (which are done flawlesly by it Autor), despite the limitations given by form, material, function etc. We are talking here about Art . Giving that this is not just 0815 keysets, its a custom keyset with artificial properties. Because its Art the Autor gets the Copyright protection by creating it automaticaly. Its the same as with writing a song or book, drawing a picture, sculpting, making a photo and every other artificial expression given. And again we are speaking here not about just the colorway but about that RainDrop and its autor is "aggiejy" and he can claim the right for it

In that case you can bring as many law articles as possible which suits your issues you have with this community but they dont fit this particular case because this here is art. RainDrop is art and nobody can run it just like that without permission of its Autor.

Its just keycaps for you. But for me and many other community members this is art which also makes this hobby so great and explains why you, me and others are here.

Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Not doubting the veracity of this claim. But as a curious observer and possible point of reference for GB leads/makers, can you link or point to where one would find this specific information? This really need to hashed out and pinned somewhere because I do believe many people don't understand this.

I've described it above. Given the RainDrop keyset is Art the rights for it are granted automaticaly to its Autor.

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 14:14:14 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Let me state first, my pitchfork is out for this set but not because it's a copy.  That said, let's jump into your comments and talk about my thoughts on copying then we'll get back to my particular pitchfork.

Colorway copying is legal.  Novelty copying (icons, basically) is legal - hence all the icon options you have out there.  Beyond that, keyboards are similarly not covered by nature of being a useful article.  Under the useful article clause, the useful article isn't protected, only those artistic elements that can be removed from the useful article itself may be protected.  Even then, the useful article remains unprotected.  Hence why we've had similar colorway after colorway outside the enthusiast community without issue; companies knew the legalities and simply go about their business.  The thing I find baffling within the community is that copying seems perfectly fine under certain circumstances.  Copy a classic colorway?  Great.  Custom colors to match the original?  Even better.  Copy all the various specialized caps the original set had ?  Fantastic.  Don't have access or permission to the old molds?  No worries, get new ones made!  Now try that same thing with a modern set and people suddenly get upset.

As for my pitchfork, it's out not because it's a copy but because of the claims of originality.  It's clearly not the case.
An keyset is on itself not a usefull article because its a part of a keyboard, which you can also remove. As such RainDrop is a rain themed set and it has its artificial expressions (which are done flawlesly by it Autor), despite the limitations given by form, material, function etc. We are talking here about Art . Giving that this is not just 0815 keysets, its a custom keyset with artificial properties. Because its Art the Autor gets the Copyright protection by creating it automaticaly. Its the same as with writing a song or book, drawing a picture, sculpting, making a photo and every other artificial expression given. And again we are speaking here not about just the colorway but about that RainDrop and its autor is "aggiejy" and he can claim the right for it

In that case you can bring as many law articles as possible which suits your issues you have with this community but they dont fit this particular case because this here is art. RainDrop is art and nobody can run it just like that without permission of its Autor.

Its just keycaps for you. But for me and many other community members this is art which also makes this hobby so great and explains why you, me and others are here.

Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Not doubting the veracity of this claim. But as a curious observer and possible point of reference for GB leads/makers, can you link or point to where one would find this specific information? This really need to hashed out and pinned somewhere because I do believe many people don't understand this.

I've described it above. Given the RainDrop keyset is Art the rights for it are granted automaticaly to its Autor.

I'll let Melissa handle this one.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78797.msg2015702#msg2015702

Offline T0mb3ry

  • Posts: 1820
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Re: 【IC】SP SA Rain drop
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 23 June 2017, 14:19:25 »
Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Let me state first, my pitchfork is out for this set but not because it's a copy.  That said, let's jump into your comments and talk about my thoughts on copying then we'll get back to my particular pitchfork.

Colorway copying is legal.  Novelty copying (icons, basically) is legal - hence all the icon options you have out there.  Beyond that, keyboards are similarly not covered by nature of being a useful article.  Under the useful article clause, the useful article isn't protected, only those artistic elements that can be removed from the useful article itself may be protected.  Even then, the useful article remains unprotected.  Hence why we've had similar colorway after colorway outside the enthusiast community without issue; companies knew the legalities and simply go about their business.  The thing I find baffling within the community is that copying seems perfectly fine under certain circumstances.  Copy a classic colorway?  Great.  Custom colors to match the original?  Even better.  Copy all the various specialized caps the original set had ?  Fantastic.  Don't have access or permission to the old molds?  No worries, get new ones made!  Now try that same thing with a modern set and people suddenly get upset.

As for my pitchfork, it's out not because it's a copy but because of the claims of originality.  It's clearly not the case.
An keyset is on itself not a usefull article because its a part of a keyboard, which you can also remove. As such RainDrop is a rain themed set and it has its artificial expressions (which are done flawlesly by it Autor), despite the limitations given by form, material, function etc. We are talking here about Art . Giving that this is not just 0815 keysets, its a custom keyset with artificial properties. Because its Art the Autor gets the Copyright protection by creating it automaticaly. Its the same as with writing a song or book, drawing a picture, sculpting, making a photo and every other artificial expression given. And again we are speaking here not about just the colorway but about that RainDrop and its autor is "aggiejy" and he can claim the right for it

In that case you can bring as many law articles as possible which suits your issues you have with this community but they dont fit this particular case because this here is art. RainDrop is art and nobody can run it just like that without permission of its Autor.

Its just keycaps for you. But for me and many other community members this is art which also makes this hobby so great and explains why you, me and others are here.

Oh linking!  Let's have fun.

From the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

Quote
906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs

Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. §
202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar
symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples
of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office,
see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J).

A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration
specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that
the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

Examples:

• Francis Ford created a sketch of the standard fleur de lys design used by the French monarchy. The registration specialist may refuse to register this claim if the work merely depicts a common fleur de lys.

• Samantha Stone drew an original silhouette of Marie Antoinette with a backdrop featuring multiple fleur de lys   designs. The registration specialist may register this work because it incorporates an original, artistic drawing in addition to the standard fleur de lys designs


And section 313.4.

Quote
313.4(J) Familiar Symbols and Designs Familiar symbols and designs are not copyrightable and cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the Office cannot register a work consisting of a simple combination of a few familiar symbols or designs with minor linear or spatial variations, either in two-dimensional or three-dimensional form. Examples of familiar symbols and designs include, without limitation:
• Letters.
• Punctuation.
• Symbols typically found on a keyboard, such as asterisks, ampersands, and the like.
• Abbreviations. • Musical notes and symbols.
• Numbers.
• Mathematical symbols.
• Currency symbols.
• Arrows and other directional or navigational symbols.
• Common representational symbols, such as a spade, club, heart, diamond, star, yin yang, fleur de lys, or the like.
• Common patterns, such as standard chevron, polka dot, checkerboard, or houndstooth designs.
• Well-known and commonly used symbols that contain a de minimis amount of expression or that are in the public domain, such as the peace symbol, gender symbols (♀ ♂), the symbols for “play, pause, stop, forward, back,” simple emoticons such as the typical smiley face (☺), or the like.
• Standard industry designs, such as the caduceus, the barber pole, food labeling symbols, hazard warning symbols, or the like.
• Familiar religious symbols such as crosses, stars, crescents, and the like.
• Common architecture moldings, such as the volute used to decorate Ionic and Corinthian columns.

While familiar symbols and designs cannot be registered by themselves, a work of authorship that incorporates one or more of these elements into a larger design may be registered if the work as a whole contains a sufficient amount of creative expression.

For additional information concerning familiar symbols and designs, see Chapter 900, Section 906.2.

This is not the first time you try to defend copy cats. Who are you? And why are you playing devils advocate? I found always your expressions very shady.

This particular group buy will not happen, because of 1:1 copy (colorway, novelties and name). SP is not going to produce this. These guys got just pricing tiers and are doing a groupbuy without resolving any copyright issues. And yes RainDrop was and is under copyright protection. Thats why SP is not going to manufacture it. This here is dead GB.

Roll the credits!

Not doubting the veracity of this claim. But as a curious observer and possible point of reference for GB leads/makers, can you link or point to where one would find this specific information? This really need to hashed out and pinned somewhere because I do believe many people don't understand this.

I've described it above. Given the RainDrop keyset is Art the rights for it are granted automaticaly to its Autor.

I'll let Melissa handle this one.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78797.msg2015702#msg2015702

Good luck :))

But keep in mind Signature Plastics is manufacturer and they do only manufacture. However the seller/destributer or one who is trying making money has to cover every IP related issue ;)
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 June 2017, 14:28:20 by T0mb3ry »